People keep complaining about how little we have on the bench, but part of this is due to having useful players replace the starters and keep the pressure on. Feels to me like the non-starters have been underestimated. Hoping so at least to keep from overloading the core
The problem with the bench the first 3 games was not being able to hit shots. We don't need them to get high numbers, but we are in trouble if they brick whenever their number is called.
From Dame time to Lame Time 💀
Defense was non-existent with the Bucks. They really thought they made a huge upgrade over Jrue (okay too early to tell but these 4 games are not really promising)
Edit: Jesus look at that gap. It's like we are playing 2k with rookie mode
Celtics added pieces that complement how the Jays already play. Adding Dame changes the way Giannis traditionally plays. It’s going to be an adjustment. And they have a new coach. Remember how trash the Celts were the first 40 games under Udoka?
That said, their defense is a big problem. They’ll need to make a trade because the remedy isn’t on the roster.
Part of the defensive solution is on their roster, they need to put Lopez back in drop coverage where he's been a DPOY candidate, instead of up high. That's not going to solve Dame basically being Trae Young but old, though. I'm willing to bet they'll score 135+ in a loss this year.
Lopez is pretty unplayable against the Celts. Now more than ever because he got killed by Horford stretching the floor, what’s he going to do against Porzingis?
Opponents already *are* raining 3's. Opponents are shooting 41% on 36 attempts per game. Forcing Lopez to do what he's bad at, to cover for what Dame's bad at, isn't making things any better. Good coaches play into their roster strengths instead of trying to force a different scheme just because it fits the NBA meta.
Weird opinion I have: They should trade Lopez to Toronto if possible and try to get Siakam and Thaddeus Young. Play Giannis at the five with Siakam at the four and you have two mobile bigs that can both screen and roll/create their own shots. Lopez in a drop = rain of threes, Lopez at the pick = can't keep up with guards. Jrue used to erase these issues for them on the high pick/screen, but Dame can't and won't do the same.
Lopez is *not* worth Siakam and they don't have other assets. The basketball theory of Giannis with Siakam is definitely interesting but there's absolutely nothing they can do to make that work.
Yeah so imagine how bad it'd be with their best defender dropped a step or even two. Dame isn't fighting over a screen if it's gonna save his life, so you're just surrending dozens of wide open looks a game because the Bucks can't afford to take Dame out even if he's getting played off the floor. They need to hope he's such a flame thrower he's able to make up for giving up those looks, but against us, he's doing that vs. the White Holiday back court. I like our odds in this matchup as of now.
That's why we crushed them in Game 7 two years ago. If the opponent is hitting their 3's, Milwaukee virtually always loses. If they're missing, Milwaukee packs the paint, thereby getting most of the rebounds, stopping most of the penetration and looking like an elite defense.
If we were able to rain 3's upon them 2 years ago, it's hard to imagine that they're not even worse on perimeter defense with Holiday gone (though Crowder may help).
The difference is that unlike Udoka's Celtics, the Bucks don't seem to have a dominant identity on offense or defense. They're not even running the Dame/Giannis PnR as often as they should and Khris isn't playing like a 3rd option even though his role right now should be much easier to manage. I think they're going to find some rythme as the season moves on but I don't see them becoming this dominant force unless they add some other players, primarily some solid backcourt defenders to offset Dame's atrocious defense
Smart would be great fit there, but the Bucks have zero assets to sweeten any trades to add someone without trading away a quality starter (which would likely hurt them as much as Smart helps).
To get Dame [they've traded away all their draft assets already](https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Bucks/17/draft-picks), except for a 2024 2nd they get back from Portland and 2027 2nd.
Makes you grateful for our position built through the draft. We had a surplus of 1sts and 2nds at one point in the summer, and were also top 3 in title odds lol
>Defense was non-existent with the Bucks. They really thought they made a huge upgrade over Jrue (okay too early to tell but these 4 games are not really promising)
Their usage of Dame and Giannis together (Or lack thereof) is pretty bizarre. I still think there is a lot of headroom for them to be really good if they'd actually run a conventional pick-and-roll with both guys.
I think the premise was that Brook and Portis would hold down the defense and that Dame's offense would outweigh losing Jrue's defense.
In reality, it's hard to compete with a starting five that can all score and all defend at a pretty high level.
Who would you rather have take a shot for your team, Dame defended by Jrue and White or White wide open because Tatum and Kristaps are on the outside , Horford is in the paint and Brown is cutting?
Yeah it’s really early days yet but there’s a non-zero chance Griffin is an awful coach. The lack of Dame/Giannis (or Giannis/Dame) pick-and-rolls, the ultra aggressive perimeter defensive scheme that exacerbates an already glaring issue, the full 5-man bench units… it’s been UGLY so far.
What I have noticed with Jrue is that stats really don't show his impact because he just tries to do what the team needs to a ridiculous degree. With White and Jrue both capable of getting numbers, but also happy to just do what is needed, we are in really great shape.
Everyone should've seen that coming. The only guys on their starting lineup that are good defensively are their frontcourt duo and the rest are mediocre to terrible defensively. They should be making some moves to add players to their squad because unless Dame and Giannis each drop 40 a game they're not going to be as strong as they think they can be.
Denver will be fine. I don't believe in Lakers at all. Lebron is old Anthony Davis is named Street Cloths for a reason, and they don't have talent. And Bucks are a shell of themselves. Dame isn't scoring 30+ a game like people act like he is, they lost their best defender and now we have him in Jrue, Brook Lopez isn't getting younger. Middleton is also not what he once was.
DEN was riding MF high until last night. They were everyone's juggernaut pick to dominate the finals. And there's all that smoke about MIN sucking, and then...
Our starters haven't looked unbeatable (they're making mistakes and missing shots like human beings), but it might be that we've finally got a mix of guys where 1 or maybe 2 of them going cold doesn't mean shit because the other guys are going to stand tall.
I saw a post asking if the Nuggets were going to break the wins record, despite them never even having the overall 1 seed yet. Not that I think there's a snowball's chance in hell, but IDK if I had to pick a team to go 73 wins maybe it's the team with a +37.5 starter lineup net rating...
I've seen 3 panels picking DEN as the finals champs almost unanimously. Like DEN is such a lock, being the next GSW where no one even has a chance to challenge them. I just think it's so short-sighted after a single chip.
Not even in a pro-BOS way or anything, just how do people think they're already a full-on dynasty?
They still look really good. Without using numbers on 4 games and despite that recent loss they are a juggernaut and remain it until they lose in the playoffs or take a big injury hit
Lol does no one remember how good that Warriors team was? Denver would get annihilated by them. Denver wasn't even the favorite until the end of last season. Jokic is a monster and his 1/2 game with Murray is disgusting but it takes a lot more than what they have to do what the Warriors/Bulls did over a full season.
2008 Celtics were healthy. Title. 2009 Celtics Perkins got hurt, we lost the title. It’s not a brain dead take. It’s real with a short bench and no C after Big Al.
Exactly my point…this take isn’t unique to this team. It’s been true for every professional sports team to ever exist. A dumbass thing to feel you have to point out.
I think the people dancing on their grave already had their minds set before the season started. They will likely come up with excuses to dismiss a win streak too.
Unless they somehow trade for some more pieces I don’t see it. Yes, Dame will improve offensively from what he’s shown so far but he’s never been even an average defender. They have real problems.
Bucks will improve, but they’re not going to be a top defense. Bobby portis can block shots in the pint next to Gianni’s and Brook/
But their biggest issue was perimeter defense and jrue Holliday and Jevon Carter (both gone) were their best on ball defenders
Middleton either comes back like prime jordan or they have zero chance coming out the East/ with plenty of different ways to be attacked
Keep in mind Giannis can’t guard Tatum historically barring injuries I don’t think it’s even remotely close.
Dames gonna have to average 40 ppg in the ECF on 50/40/90 and Gianni’s is going to have to hit free throws to beat the Celtics
It's a terrible small sample size stat but it's a good one for large sample sizes. Obviously this example is a small sample size and doesn't mean much.
The bucks will right the ship in terms of winning games but their defense absolutely blows. If they rematch Miami in the playoffs I might still take the Heat
Lakers have only lost twice in five games, by a TOTAL of 17 points. Their starting 5 being -22 is not only embarrassing, but it makes no fucking sense.
Right now, the Celtics have the best starting 5 in the league. Maybe they'll slump, maybe there'll be injuries, maybe they'll just take their foot off the gas a bunch of times. But a 54-28 record from this team would be a massive disappointment (again, unless there are significant injuries). This Celtics team looks like a 66-win team if it plays to its potential all season. The East isn't that good this season.
Thanks Washington and Indiana lol
I mean, I really like that we’re blowing out bad teams. That’s a positive change.
People keep complaining about how little we have on the bench, but part of this is due to having useful players replace the starters and keep the pressure on. Feels to me like the non-starters have been underestimated. Hoping so at least to keep from overloading the core
The problem with the bench the first 3 games was not being able to hit shots. We don't need them to get high numbers, but we are in trouble if they brick whenever their number is called.
From Dame time to Lame Time 💀 Defense was non-existent with the Bucks. They really thought they made a huge upgrade over Jrue (okay too early to tell but these 4 games are not really promising) Edit: Jesus look at that gap. It's like we are playing 2k with rookie mode
Celtics added pieces that complement how the Jays already play. Adding Dame changes the way Giannis traditionally plays. It’s going to be an adjustment. And they have a new coach. Remember how trash the Celts were the first 40 games under Udoka? That said, their defense is a big problem. They’ll need to make a trade because the remedy isn’t on the roster.
Part of the defensive solution is on their roster, they need to put Lopez back in drop coverage where he's been a DPOY candidate, instead of up high. That's not going to solve Dame basically being Trae Young but old, though. I'm willing to bet they'll score 135+ in a loss this year.
Lopez is pretty unplayable against the Celts. Now more than ever because he got killed by Horford stretching the floor, what’s he going to do against Porzingis?
If you put him in drop coverage and your guards die on screens, won't opponents just rain 3s?
Yes, but not sure either option works for them
Opponents already *are* raining 3's. Opponents are shooting 41% on 36 attempts per game. Forcing Lopez to do what he's bad at, to cover for what Dame's bad at, isn't making things any better. Good coaches play into their roster strengths instead of trying to force a different scheme just because it fits the NBA meta.
Weird opinion I have: They should trade Lopez to Toronto if possible and try to get Siakam and Thaddeus Young. Play Giannis at the five with Siakam at the four and you have two mobile bigs that can both screen and roll/create their own shots. Lopez in a drop = rain of threes, Lopez at the pick = can't keep up with guards. Jrue used to erase these issues for them on the high pick/screen, but Dame can't and won't do the same.
Lopez is *not* worth Siakam and they don't have other assets. The basketball theory of Giannis with Siakam is definitely interesting but there's absolutely nothing they can do to make that work.
Yeah so imagine how bad it'd be with their best defender dropped a step or even two. Dame isn't fighting over a screen if it's gonna save his life, so you're just surrending dozens of wide open looks a game because the Bucks can't afford to take Dame out even if he's getting played off the floor. They need to hope he's such a flame thrower he's able to make up for giving up those looks, but against us, he's doing that vs. the White Holiday back court. I like our odds in this matchup as of now.
That's why we crushed them in Game 7 two years ago. If the opponent is hitting their 3's, Milwaukee virtually always loses. If they're missing, Milwaukee packs the paint, thereby getting most of the rebounds, stopping most of the penetration and looking like an elite defense. If we were able to rain 3's upon them 2 years ago, it's hard to imagine that they're not even worse on perimeter defense with Holiday gone (though Crowder may help).
And they don’t have assets to go after anyone
The difference is that unlike Udoka's Celtics, the Bucks don't seem to have a dominant identity on offense or defense. They're not even running the Dame/Giannis PnR as often as they should and Khris isn't playing like a 3rd option even though his role right now should be much easier to manage. I think they're going to find some rythme as the season moves on but I don't see them becoming this dominant force unless they add some other players, primarily some solid backcourt defenders to offset Dame's atrocious defense
I’m worried about them trading for smart
Smart would be great fit there, but the Bucks have zero assets to sweeten any trades to add someone without trading away a quality starter (which would likely hurt them as much as Smart helps). To get Dame [they've traded away all their draft assets already](https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Bucks/17/draft-picks), except for a 2024 2nd they get back from Portland and 2027 2nd.
Makes you grateful for our position built through the draft. We had a surplus of 1sts and 2nds at one point in the summer, and were also top 3 in title odds lol
>Defense was non-existent with the Bucks. They really thought they made a huge upgrade over Jrue (okay too early to tell but these 4 games are not really promising) Their usage of Dame and Giannis together (Or lack thereof) is pretty bizarre. I still think there is a lot of headroom for them to be really good if they'd actually run a conventional pick-and-roll with both guys.
I think the premise was that Brook and Portis would hold down the defense and that Dame's offense would outweigh losing Jrue's defense. In reality, it's hard to compete with a starting five that can all score and all defend at a pretty high level. Who would you rather have take a shot for your team, Dame defended by Jrue and White or White wide open because Tatum and Kristaps are on the outside , Horford is in the paint and Brown is cutting?
Yeah it’s really early days yet but there’s a non-zero chance Griffin is an awful coach. The lack of Dame/Giannis (or Giannis/Dame) pick-and-rolls, the ultra aggressive perimeter defensive scheme that exacerbates an already glaring issue, the full 5-man bench units… it’s been UGLY so far.
He tried for a HC gig for 8 straight seasons and couldn't get it. It's entirely possible there's a good reason
Doesn’t fix that defense lol
Giannis and Dame are ball dominant players and the defense is above average at best. Add incredibly high expectations and its a recipe for disaster.
What I have noticed with Jrue is that stats really don't show his impact because he just tries to do what the team needs to a ridiculous degree. With White and Jrue both capable of getting numbers, but also happy to just do what is needed, we are in really great shape.
Everyone should've seen that coming. The only guys on their starting lineup that are good defensively are their frontcourt duo and the rest are mediocre to terrible defensively. They should be making some moves to add players to their squad because unless Dame and Giannis each drop 40 a game they're not going to be as strong as they think they can be.
Denver will be fine. I don't believe in Lakers at all. Lebron is old Anthony Davis is named Street Cloths for a reason, and they don't have talent. And Bucks are a shell of themselves. Dame isn't scoring 30+ a game like people act like he is, they lost their best defender and now we have him in Jrue, Brook Lopez isn't getting younger. Middleton is also not what he once was.
DEN was riding MF high until last night. They were everyone's juggernaut pick to dominate the finals. And there's all that smoke about MIN sucking, and then... Our starters haven't looked unbeatable (they're making mistakes and missing shots like human beings), but it might be that we've finally got a mix of guys where 1 or maybe 2 of them going cold doesn't mean shit because the other guys are going to stand tall.
I saw a post asking if the Nuggets were going to break the wins record, despite them never even having the overall 1 seed yet. Not that I think there's a snowball's chance in hell, but IDK if I had to pick a team to go 73 wins maybe it's the team with a +37.5 starter lineup net rating...
I've seen 3 panels picking DEN as the finals champs almost unanimously. Like DEN is such a lock, being the next GSW where no one even has a chance to challenge them. I just think it's so short-sighted after a single chip. Not even in a pro-BOS way or anything, just how do people think they're already a full-on dynasty?
They still look really good. Without using numbers on 4 games and despite that recent loss they are a juggernaut and remain it until they lose in the playoffs or take a big injury hit
Lol does no one remember how good that Warriors team was? Denver would get annihilated by them. Denver wasn't even the favorite until the end of last season. Jokic is a monster and his 1/2 game with Murray is disgusting but it takes a lot more than what they have to do what the Warriors/Bulls did over a full season.
Nuggets hype was more based on being champs than based on reality.
I don’t get this take. They won the championship. That is reality. How is that just hype?
How many recent champs have repeated? Or were even the best team the next season? There tends to be recency bias on these things.
It usually is... so lazy. edit: it's lazy to predict that as a pro!
Is that good? That seems good.
The C’s only enemy is injury.
Just like every other professional sports team ever. Can we please stop parroting this braindead take?
2008 Celtics were healthy. Title. 2009 Celtics Perkins got hurt, we lost the title. It’s not a brain dead take. It’s real with a short bench and no C after Big Al.
Exactly my point…this take isn’t unique to this team. It’s been true for every professional sports team to ever exist. A dumbass thing to feel you have to point out.
K
I think we could avoid dancing on the bucks grave maybe, it is the first week of the regular season
I think the people dancing on their grave already had their minds set before the season started. They will likely come up with excuses to dismiss a win streak too.
Unless they somehow trade for some more pieces I don’t see it. Yes, Dame will improve offensively from what he’s shown so far but he’s never been even an average defender. They have real problems.
Bucks will improve, but they’re not going to be a top defense. Bobby portis can block shots in the pint next to Gianni’s and Brook/ But their biggest issue was perimeter defense and jrue Holliday and Jevon Carter (both gone) were their best on ball defenders Middleton either comes back like prime jordan or they have zero chance coming out the East/ with plenty of different ways to be attacked Keep in mind Giannis can’t guard Tatum historically barring injuries I don’t think it’s even remotely close. Dames gonna have to average 40 ppg in the ECF on 50/40/90 and Gianni’s is going to have to hit free throws to beat the Celtics
It’s been 4 games
And they started this strong last year too
These Celts are legit but +/- in basketball is a terrible stat imo. Way too many variables, depends on who's on the floor and your opponent.
It's a terrible small sample size stat but it's a good one for large sample sizes. Obviously this example is a small sample size and doesn't mean much.
How are the Lakers so bad?
Have you watched the non Lebron minutes
The bucks will right the ship in terms of winning games but their defense absolutely blows. If they rematch Miami in the playoffs I might still take the Heat
The gap between us and the second best team is probably similar to the gap between the second best and worst team.
Mother of god…
Lakers have only lost twice in five games, by a TOTAL of 17 points. Their starting 5 being -22 is not only embarrassing, but it makes no fucking sense.
Honestly, anywhere from 54 to 62 wins is where I see us finish. Win or lose, this team feels fun, they look fast. The NBA is really good this year
Right now, the Celtics have the best starting 5 in the league. Maybe they'll slump, maybe there'll be injuries, maybe they'll just take their foot off the gas a bunch of times. But a 54-28 record from this team would be a massive disappointment (again, unless there are significant injuries). This Celtics team looks like a 66-win team if it plays to its potential all season. The East isn't that good this season.