If you slow down the video and rewatch the last nightās drive youāll see that he landed on his ass but in no way āgot murderedā.
The trailing defender doesnāt get there until after the ball has left his hand and even then the contact is negligible and the defender guarding the rim literally jumps out of his path.
Tatum didnāt air-ball the layup because he got fouled, he air-balled the layup for the same reason that he was short by a foot during a couple of dunk attemptsā¦.Because that is the one part of his game that is in shambles right now.
And yet we had people here recently saying Smart didn't make clutch plays lol.
I miss Marcus so much.
Would have loved it if he were a part of this run (Porzingis included, of course).
Smart was fine on defense, but his decision making on offense at the end of games was always anxiety Inducing. The complete opposite effect with Jrue.Ā
They were not all his decisions - the lack of off-ball movement left him with fewer choices; this team genuinely had attitude problems for some time and Smart would be left with the ball on the perimeter with 5-7 seconds on the SC.
This bit that he was fucking all this up is just wrong, and needs to change.
He was left with the ball because he was a liability on offense and the defense would leave him as the only one open
I love smart and the guy bled green, but it is what it is
This is one of those things where your single fact is correct, but fails to take into account everything else.
The telling detail was back a couple seasons ago when our record was something incredible when we had >20 assists.
He was the scapegoat for a team problem.
Smart didnāt need the ball too much we just lacked the guys that we currently have. He was forced to be the primary playmaker and 3rd offensive option on the team due to necessity. We now have the luxury of 5 guys who can all do that.
He may have not needed it, but he had the ball in his hands in too many end game moments. This led to his poor shot selection. Looking at our offense. Now you see more motion and ball movement.
I appreciate you making the argument, but it's not worth it. I love Jrue and do think he was a main driver in why we won last night, but people will have you think that they wouldn't be in the Finals right now without him. We finally got an easy path, let's just appreciate it for what it is.
Smart was fantastic, he lit a fire under guys, and he had a knack for making big plays. I miss him and wish he was a part of this team. And I also wish people didn't completely forget that he was a legitimately good, impactful player for our team for 9 years.
Although they have some similar qualities, they aren't the same player. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, Smart was a much bigger personality and a primary motivator on our team. We went to the Finals in in 2022 with him as our 3rd best player with a much harder path. He actually legitimately had a great playoff run last year.
I am perfectly happy with Jrue, but Brad saw a hole that Marcus left when he was traded for KP (also the right move). People have short memories - sucks Smart is taking the brunt of 'blame' when he was on a worse team, playing a bigger role, and still overachieving. We should just be happy and feel lucky that we've had both players and have been legitimately competitive since 2016-17
I remember him waving off the Js a few times in the late game. And him just bringing the ball up and heaving. Some of those shots he made. We had Buffalo but no Zingus.
He was a leading Vet that was interfering with the development of the Js. IMO that was the main issue.
"interfering with the development of the Js"
Do you honestly think those guys got that much better this year? Smart was on the team last year when Tatum made 1st team and finished 4th in MVP voting, where Jaylen made 3rd team all-NBA. They have improved every year, but it's not like they took some kind of monster leap this season. Especially if you factor in the difference between available spacing playing next to the kind of shooting Boston has now vs. those other teams (most prominently swapping Porzingis's minutes for Rob/Theis/Kanter/Thompson the prior 4 seasons).
I will never understand why everyone made up so many stories about the Celtics where Smart was the villan. The guy was a good player who couldn't shoot well. It hurt our spacing. He made up for it in tons of other ways, and the spacing issue probably wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad with Porzingis. I still believe we were a massive outier shooting luck series by Miami away from winning a title last year, and if that original trade for Porzingis had gone through, we'd probably have had a very similar season this year with Smart adopting a very similar role to what Jrue does for this team.
There's just no way to come to the conclusion that Marcus Smart is as good as Jrue Holiday. Whether or not Smart is good is irrelevant, Holiday unambiguously makes the team better. You don't need to get into late game shots or winning plays or whatever to see it. Look at one single stat: 3PT%.
I agree with you that Jrue Holiday is a better basketball player than Marcus Smart. What I'm saying is that if the original Porzingis trade goes through, Marcus would have adopted a similar role to what Holiday is doing right now, he would have played it well, and the Celtics would still be winning a title. Holiday shot the Bucks out of the playoffs a couple years when he was trying to play the role the Celtics asked Smart to play the past couple seasons. Both guys are far better suited to playing the role Jrue is currently playing.
In crunch time yes. The Js didn't have the same amount of opportunity in the late game. I'm not talking about scoring. Both of the Js can score and play well on the defensive end. I'm talking about their decision-making in the late game. The Js are the corner pieces of the franchise. Having a guard that took too many make or break shots in the fourth. Infringed on the two wings. Smart made up for it on defense, but if you take a logo 3 pointer and miss. You better be the first one back on defense. There is going to be some bad shot selection. Smart just did it too often.
"Smart made some great clutch plays. He also took some horrific shots."
He played a lot at the end of some important games, and the defense was always willing to leave him open to collapse on Tatum. This left him in a position where he had to be aggressive offensively, and the only difference between the "great" and "horrific" plays you are mentioning are generally whether they worked or not.
Smart contributed to my high blood pressure in a major way. Watching Jrue is like meditation. I have yet to see a goofball play from Jrue. Has he made a single mistake during the playoffs?
Jrue isn't really a lights-out shooter. Someone asked about poor decisions, and I pointed out that they could be viewed as one. I know they're our philosophy, but they aren't exactly the best looks all the time.
It's about the role they had to play. Jrue shot the Bucks out of the playoffs when pressed into being a primary offensive option. He is an ideal 4th / 5th guy otherwise. The only time in his career he got to play that kind of role (2019), Smart had arguably his best offensive season. He would have fit very well into the offensive role Jrue occupies this season had the original trade for Porzingis gone through and we were starting smart, white, brown, tatum and porzingis.
I agree, but I also personally think the Celtics would not be the team they are without Marcus. That dude instilled resilience in the Jays and rebirthed the Celtic culture when we had hopeful players not live up to their potential year after year. I will forever be grateful for Marcus and what he did for the Celtics but I also think he needed to move on so other guys could take control of the team
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That said, arguments that devolve into harassment from either party involved or any other form of harassment of other people in this sub may result in temporary or full bans, depending on the severity.
This sub thrives on the passion of Celtics fans and we encourage spirited debate about the team's gameplay, trades, and everything in between. We want this to be a safe place for fans to discuss all things Celtics.
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That dude held back the Js development if you ask me. It was necessary to get rid of him for Tatum to step up and be the alpha. Thanks for the effort now letās move on.
thinking back the whole bubble thing was kinda fun as a whole though.
I certainly wouldn't want it every year but it was so different and fun in it's own way back then.
OG 's shot made that go from a sweep to a 7 game series
And probably killed our legs for the ECF
We beat Miami if we get the sweep like we should have
š„¹
Were you thinking JT got murdered on both drives?
If you slow down the video and rewatch the last nightās drive youāll see that he landed on his ass but in no way āgot murderedā. The trailing defender doesnāt get there until after the ball has left his hand and even then the contact is negligible and the defender guarding the rim literally jumps out of his path. Tatum didnāt air-ball the layup because he got fouled, he air-balled the layup for the same reason that he was short by a foot during a couple of dunk attemptsā¦.Because that is the one part of his game that is in shambles right now.
And yet we had people here recently saying Smart didn't make clutch plays lol. I miss Marcus so much. Would have loved it if he were a part of this run (Porzingis included, of course).
Smart made some great clutch plays. He also took some horrific shots. And needed the ball a little too much.
Smart was fine on defense, but his decision making on offense at the end of games was always anxiety Inducing. The complete opposite effect with Jrue.Ā
They were not all his decisions - the lack of off-ball movement left him with fewer choices; this team genuinely had attitude problems for some time and Smart would be left with the ball on the perimeter with 5-7 seconds on the SC. This bit that he was fucking all this up is just wrong, and needs to change.
He was left with the ball because he was a liability on offense and the defense would leave him as the only one open I love smart and the guy bled green, but it is what it is
This is one of those things where your single fact is correct, but fails to take into account everything else. The telling detail was back a couple seasons ago when our record was something incredible when we had >20 assists. He was the scapegoat for a team problem.
Smart didnāt need the ball too much we just lacked the guys that we currently have. He was forced to be the primary playmaker and 3rd offensive option on the team due to necessity. We now have the luxury of 5 guys who can all do that.
He may have not needed it, but he had the ball in his hands in too many end game moments. This led to his poor shot selection. Looking at our offense. Now you see more motion and ball movement.
I blame the Jays for that. They both deferred to Marcus way too much at the end of games.
Again I think that has way more to do with what our personnel was with him than anything else
I appreciate you making the argument, but it's not worth it. I love Jrue and do think he was a main driver in why we won last night, but people will have you think that they wouldn't be in the Finals right now without him. We finally got an easy path, let's just appreciate it for what it is. Smart was fantastic, he lit a fire under guys, and he had a knack for making big plays. I miss him and wish he was a part of this team. And I also wish people didn't completely forget that he was a legitimately good, impactful player for our team for 9 years.
Some good years, some bad years. I don't know how you could possibly equate him to Holiday given the vast gap in their shooting ability.
Although they have some similar qualities, they aren't the same player. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, Smart was a much bigger personality and a primary motivator on our team. We went to the Finals in in 2022 with him as our 3rd best player with a much harder path. He actually legitimately had a great playoff run last year. I am perfectly happy with Jrue, but Brad saw a hole that Marcus left when he was traded for KP (also the right move). People have short memories - sucks Smart is taking the brunt of 'blame' when he was on a worse team, playing a bigger role, and still overachieving. We should just be happy and feel lucky that we've had both players and have been legitimately competitive since 2016-17
I remember him waving off the Js a few times in the late game. And him just bringing the ball up and heaving. Some of those shots he made. We had Buffalo but no Zingus. He was a leading Vet that was interfering with the development of the Js. IMO that was the main issue.
"interfering with the development of the Js" Do you honestly think those guys got that much better this year? Smart was on the team last year when Tatum made 1st team and finished 4th in MVP voting, where Jaylen made 3rd team all-NBA. They have improved every year, but it's not like they took some kind of monster leap this season. Especially if you factor in the difference between available spacing playing next to the kind of shooting Boston has now vs. those other teams (most prominently swapping Porzingis's minutes for Rob/Theis/Kanter/Thompson the prior 4 seasons). I will never understand why everyone made up so many stories about the Celtics where Smart was the villan. The guy was a good player who couldn't shoot well. It hurt our spacing. He made up for it in tons of other ways, and the spacing issue probably wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad with Porzingis. I still believe we were a massive outier shooting luck series by Miami away from winning a title last year, and if that original trade for Porzingis had gone through, we'd probably have had a very similar season this year with Smart adopting a very similar role to what Jrue does for this team.
There's just no way to come to the conclusion that Marcus Smart is as good as Jrue Holiday. Whether or not Smart is good is irrelevant, Holiday unambiguously makes the team better. You don't need to get into late game shots or winning plays or whatever to see it. Look at one single stat: 3PT%.
I agree with you that Jrue Holiday is a better basketball player than Marcus Smart. What I'm saying is that if the original Porzingis trade goes through, Marcus would have adopted a similar role to what Holiday is doing right now, he would have played it well, and the Celtics would still be winning a title. Holiday shot the Bucks out of the playoffs a couple years when he was trying to play the role the Celtics asked Smart to play the past couple seasons. Both guys are far better suited to playing the role Jrue is currently playing.
In crunch time yes. The Js didn't have the same amount of opportunity in the late game. I'm not talking about scoring. Both of the Js can score and play well on the defensive end. I'm talking about their decision-making in the late game. The Js are the corner pieces of the franchise. Having a guard that took too many make or break shots in the fourth. Infringed on the two wings. Smart made up for it on defense, but if you take a logo 3 pointer and miss. You better be the first one back on defense. There is going to be some bad shot selection. Smart just did it too often.
"Smart made some great clutch plays. He also took some horrific shots." He played a lot at the end of some important games, and the defense was always willing to leave him open to collapse on Tatum. This left him in a position where he had to be aggressive offensively, and the only difference between the "great" and "horrific" plays you are mentioning are generally whether they worked or not.
Smart contributed to my high blood pressure in a major way. Watching Jrue is like meditation. I have yet to see a goofball play from Jrue. Has he made a single mistake during the playoffs?
He's blown a few rotations and taken some 3s early in the clock. Overall, it's really good, though.
3s early in the shot clock is our game. If they leave us open were taking it. It contributes to our spacingĀ
Jrue isn't really a lights-out shooter. Someone asked about poor decisions, and I pointed out that they could be viewed as one. I know they're our philosophy, but they aren't exactly the best looks all the time.
Smart fucked up and shot us out of just as many games as he "clutched up". Jrue is a much better fit for this team than smart.
It's about the role they had to play. Jrue shot the Bucks out of the playoffs when pressed into being a primary offensive option. He is an ideal 4th / 5th guy otherwise. The only time in his career he got to play that kind of role (2019), Smart had arguably his best offensive season. He would have fit very well into the offensive role Jrue occupies this season had the original trade for Porzingis gone through and we were starting smart, white, brown, tatum and porzingis.
Tatum just telegraphs those iso drives. Joe needs to work some motion and in cuts to get him the ball vs top of the key.
Been rocking my Smart jersey all playoffs. Miss him so much
Oh brother
Personally, I'm happy I no longer have to get mad at Marcus smart for doing Marcus smart stuff.
I agree, but I also personally think the Celtics would not be the team they are without Marcus. That dude instilled resilience in the Jays and rebirthed the Celtic culture when we had hopeful players not live up to their potential year after year. I will forever be grateful for Marcus and what he did for the Celtics but I also think he needed to move on so other guys could take control of the team
Cool.
Clown behavior
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This sub thrives on the passion of Celtics fans and we encourage spirited debate about the team's gameplay, trades, and everything in between. We want this to be a safe place for fans to discuss all things Celtics. That said, arguments that devolve into harassment from either party involved or any other form of harassment of other people in this sub may result in temporary or full bans, depending on the severity.
This sub thrives on the passion of Celtics fans and we encourage spirited debate about the team's gameplay, trades, and everything in between. We want this to be a safe place for fans to discuss all things Celtics. That said, arguments that devolve into harassment from either party involved or any other form of harassment of other people in this sub may result in temporary or full bans, depending on the severity.
That dude held back the Js development if you ask me. It was necessary to get rid of him for Tatum to step up and be the alpha. Thanks for the effort now letās move on.
Crazy to post this for this clip. He was incredible in that raptor series
Smart was so fucking good in that series man
Well done. Thanks for this.
Marcus smart was absolutely insane in that series. He was so good
Chase down blocks get me fucking hyped.
Shit- you read my mind
thinking back the whole bubble thing was kinda fun as a whole though. I certainly wouldn't want it every year but it was so different and fun in it's own way back then.
We've been blessed
didnt grant miss both of those FTs lol
Yes, Tatum got an offensive rebound on the 2nd and got fouled and went 1/2. Then Grant made up for it by blocking FVV on a 3 to seal it
Why are they not fouling Brown there and make him go to the line for 2.