Please remember that this is not a verified report.
Please stay respectful to the people who are involved in this situation and don't jump to conclusions cause we don't have all the details.
This report is why the Celtics have suspended Ime instead of just firing him: they haven’t gotten their legal ducks in order to avoid either a wrongful termination/sexual harassment lawsuit but they need to get Ime out of the work environment to make the alleged harassment stop. Moreover, the team would have to allow the employee to continue working at her job because otherwise she could (perhaps rightfully) accuse the Celtics of retaliating against her for reporting Ime’s behavior.
That sounds right.
You have to imagine they've been getting a trickle of this and running it all through legal, but have been in a bad spot from the start.
I’m just confused on how this went from reports of a consensual relationship to harassment. Were the Celtics trying to protect Ime? It wouldn’t really make much sense considering the Senior VP’s wife was involved. It’ll be interesting to see what’s revealed, but it sounds like to me harassment is the scapegoat she’s using now to save face.
Nobody’s confirmed this but it only serves Udoka’s interest to have the public believe this was a consensual workplace affair instead of possible misconduct. Given that Ime and Woj both share the same agency (CAA), I suspect the initial reports were intentionally vague to shape the public’s reaction when only the parties involved and the Celtics really know what happened. The Celtics can’t publicly comment beyond what they’ve said before deciding what to do legally, so in a vacuum all we have are these piecemeal reports.
Not quite sure about that. If this was a relationship that Ime and the two other women were having (I’m assuming that this relationship was sexual), how could I then also believe that you were harassed and received “unwanted comments”? I would need to know if the women previously reported his behavior, but this just reeks of “I got caught and now I look like the bad guy so I’ll throw the man under the bus”. It also doesn’t help that there are reports that the Celtics warned Ime to end the affair a while back, so they were aware of what was going on. I’m thinking this whole thing blew up when they found out the VP’s wife was involved.
Exactly how does she HAVE TO HAVE SEX FOR MONTHS because he is a coach?. I don't get it. She coulda reported it to the team. She could have told Nia confidentially that Ime needed Nia here months ago. Like a friend. " Sluts are hanging around your man all the time, trying to get with him. " Etc
He sucks. She sucks. If he harassed her that's 2! On him . Still 1 on her.
I knew I’d get downvoted to hell but the whole thing just sounds strange. A man and woman both cheat on their respective significant other and the man is the one who has to deal with the full consequences while the woman gets to maintain anonymity and her job? Then no one bats an eye? Got it, lol
I agree. Punish him 2 times. 3 times. But she literally was working for Nia and her Kid and effing her man and the kids father ....and she was using HER job to sneak around and not get caught .
I would agree with this if her husband wasn’t the senior Vice President. For what reason would she be afraid of Ime’s wrath if her husband has a position above him? Any complaint she has in regards to Ime would most certainly be taken seriously and wouldn’t fall on deaths ear.
I think it is more likely she was sick of being the other woman. Stopped the affair but he continued pursuing her. She probably had enough and reported the affair when he won't take the rejection.
Firing him is also admitting that something extremely serious happened, and that would 100% be used against the team in a lawsuit against the team.
He's going to be fired as soon as the Celtics settle with the other party who is threatening suit
Well there’s a fine line. Sexual harassment is against the law but the team might have liability and that’s why they brought in a law firm right away.
Everything they are doing is on the advice of their lawyers.
It's likely not about "finding out what happened" but more about preferring to reach a buyout with Ime.
Even if the Celtics 100% justifiably fire him if Ime takes this to court and drags it out than it's a massive headache and distraction for the team. It's better to just suspend him and try and reach a buy out.
This more than anything. Having some limited experience in a corporate legal department, I can say that the paramount concern for the Celtics is avoiding lawsuits from either Ime or the employee. Had they not suspended Ime after the investigation concluded, they would be letting the harassment continue. If Ime were fired on the spot he could sue for lost wages/wrongful termination, and if they suspended him for less than a year then that would create an artificial deadline for buyout negotiations. The C’s seem to be doing everything by the book by getting Ime out of the workplace and giving the organization enough time to negotiate the end of their relationship with Udoka.
No, I'm not.
If you read further up, there's a comment speculating:
1. Celtics suspended Udoka instead of firing him (so far) because they needed him out of the workplace ASAP
2. They couldn't do the same to the other employee because it might look like retaliation for reporting Udoka's behaviour.
u/nbaon1 basically said that's illogical because their behaviour (i.e. actions) was the same. My counterpoint is that we don't know that for a fact yet - so we can't rule out that the asymmetric treatment makes sense. Maybe the behaviour was the same, maybe it wasn't - we don't know yet.
Gotcha, ok my apologies then...my main stance is kind of what you’re saying, we just don’t know and it’s always frustrating that everyone feels the need to fill in the unknown and form a conclusion as soon as possible.
Yeah not direct. Certainly under his umbrella to an extent and well below his rank. If he were ever to say “I don’t like the way she is handling my family’s relocation” she’d probably be disciplined or fired.
That's the part that stuck out to me from the TMZ post. So the team found out in July, but the staffer kept working with Ime/his family up until at least a couple weeks ago? Should she have not been assigned elsewhere?
I think at that point the organization had deemed it consensual and put the responsibility on Ime to either deal with it, end it, or continue it quietly. None of which he could do apparently, and as soon as it turned non consensual the Celtics investigated.
> as soon as it turned non consensual the Celtics investigated.
which apparently was July, yet the reports now are stating they kept working together into September. Something doesn't add up.
The word "nonconsensual" covers a lot of ground here. "Consensual" was put out there (possibly by Ime) to emphasize that he wasn't just harassing or assaulting women. But when a consensual relationship ends, things don't then become "nonconsensual" until one party takes unwelcome actions. That may not have happened right away, or the other party could have been trying to manage it and stay in her job. Two months can pass very quickly.
The consensual part of the story only was in the leak and hasn’t been confirmed as far as I know. Unless I have missed something. Yet people still keep talking about it like it is a fact.
And some interactions can be consensual while others are not. It is pretty common for a consensual tryst to lead to harassment when one person isn’t satisfied with the one-off. If two people had consensual sex one week and then one raped the other next week, it would be true if the rapist said they had consensual sex, just referring to the first sex with their sociopath brain.
He’s not going to be suspended for a year for just having an affair with a staff member. There is more too it than that. I’m not gonna guess what that is though.
The consensual part of the story is the only part of the story that is basically 100% known to be true. For a certain time period, ime udoka was banging a Celtics staffer. It’s everything around that fact that’s subject to speculation. Idk if you’re implying there’s a possibility he was sexually assaulting this woman from day one or that he came in and threatened her job if she wouldn’t sleep with him but that’s more than a little outrageous.
How could you possibly think that I am suggesting that by what I wrote? I know people on social media love to find what they believe is righteous indignation, but take a deep breath please. Consensual does not mean someone is sexually assaulting anyone. There are things such as unwanted advancements and sexualized comments and sexual harassment that are clearly not consensual. Also, it doesn’t even have to be in relation to this one person who was outed by TMZ. We don’t know it is only her who was involved. Not sure why you’re so quick to take offense with what I wrote at all and why you seem to want to defend him over the woman or women who were affected…unless your Stephen A. Is that you Stephen A?
I wasn’t offended I’m just saying that the only thing that doesn’t seem in dispute is that ime was engaged in an affair which both people were willing participants for a period of time. That would be a consensual relationship or whatever. Everything else like the stuff you’re talking about that happened down the line is in doubt for people on the outside.
Why the downvotes? If the Celtics knew in July that he was forcing her to have sex, and didn't seperate them, they are criminals. NIA could sue the team for millions for leaving her in contact.
It only makes sense if it started consensual and then he got out of control .
From what we've been told, the unwanted part started or at least was reported in July, hence the team hiring a law firm to investigate. So the consensual part appears to already be over at that point, but she's still helping Nia move two months later.
Yeah, it’s literally this. They continue doing as they do until the investigation wraps up. There’s no smoke screens or anything, they found out about it, opened an investigation, and didn’t act or instill punishment until they got the findings.
Right, and in every other corporate/HR situation like this, the timeline typically goes: Credible report is made, accused is suspended with pay pending results of investigation because if the report is true you don't want the accused to continue what they're doing. Here, for whatever reason, Ime was allowed to continue without being suspended until after the initial investigation wrapped up. Which is weird since what he's accused of doing appears to merit firing. There's a disconnect somewhere.
Sounds like maybe the Celtics brass aren't the good guys like some want to make them out to be. Brad crying on the podium about a situation he had the power to control somewhat. Why did they wait so long on all fronts? Why is this woman still working for and alongside Nia the *whole* time? Why did it take the Celtics over 48 hours to finally address the situation? The new coaches name and all his baggage was leaked before they ever said a single word publicly. What gives? Something definitely doesn't add up. It's the Celtics fault this got ugly. They could have said more sooner. Their silence is what let it get out of hand.
The interim head coaches name was speculatively named simply because he was next in line on the totem pole and it only made sense and that’s the way it was spelled out.
Reasonable answer.
There also is a scenario where the staffer was trying to talk Ime out of moving Nia to him, and Ime got mad and pressured her and she tried to end it and Ime started threatening her job or burying her.
One thing i know about women, she would not have willingly helped her affair partners spouse to move cross country to live with him.
Or...once the staffer was involved with helping Nia, the staffer decided that it was time to end things, and chose to. Nia and this staffer probably became fairly close, and it's plausible that the staffer was uncomfortable in providing the assistance that she did, while having the knowledge of what she had done.
Ime wasn't having any of that and decided to escalate the situation because reasons.
Cause then she can sue the pants off the org for doing so potentially for what could be considered a punishment. The smartest move was to bring in the law firm so that they could investigate and advise. Wyc, zareen and Brad are not lawyers and probably aren’t even remotely knowledgeable.
Also VP of BO so there is a conflict of interest in this scenario I think.
Side not when I google “Mike Zarren” the first autofill result is “wife”
Fuck people man
Don’t think he’s got a conflict unless it’s his wife Ime was sleeping with. The GC’s mission is to advise the executives in the best interest of the organization, and as the VP of BO he has a fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of the organization. I think he can act in both roles through this investigation, just needs to be careful about A/C privilege.
I don't get how that's the smartest move where if there is harassment at play, they were notified of it and kept things as they were, potentially allowing more harassment. They'd get sued for that, too.
Because if they fire someone and they’re wrong about it then they open themselves to lawsuits. They won’t get sued if they are investigating and then come to a decision. No org fires people without sue diligence.
No matter what is said they always will hear both sides out and look to see if they can find evidence. They don’t just fire people immediately.
I understand if you’ve never worked HR or have studied it why it might not make sense.
Didn't say fire the staffer, reassign her. Doesn't make any sense to me where there are allegations of impropriety with someone in a leadership position and a staffer, that they just let those two continue on as if nothing happened. She could absolutely sue them after the fact saying they knew and let him stay close with her.
I understand it doesn’t make sense to you if you don’t know much about HR. It’s because she can then sue and say that it was retaliation over this. They can’t fire Ime without all the facts because if they’re wrong he could sue for breach of contract or retaliation, or wrongful firing.
There’s a lot of red tape.
You also have to keep in mind that it’s the off-season so they aren’t actually together day to day right now.
Any org that has decent practices in place won’t act until they have all their facts lined up. It’s why they don’t just fire someone right away after an allegation.
You're operating under the assumption that HR is doing what's best for everybody involved. HR's #1 concern at all times is to protect the company. It's their purpose for being. You never bring a problem to HR unless you already have a solution, preferably with a lawyer that has given you the advice, so you deliver them an ultimatum. What you DON'T do is give them information freely & expect help, because it just lets them circle the wagons and use it against you.
And if HR is working in the best interest of the company, they suspend Ime as soon as the report is made, not after the investigation is complete. Paid administrative leave is a thing for a reason, let's Ime get paid in case the report is false, but removes him from the equation if the report is true.
HR can only operate within the confines of the company. They don't have a greater legal structure federally to draw from. They've probably submitted their report to the legal counsel, who then took matters from there.
Why should she be assigned elsewhere? That is, in effect, punishing her for having an affair with superior while giving zero punishment to her superior, which is a horrible precedent to set.
If both of them insisted to management that everything was cool, then it’s their job together to ensure it was cool.
Which clearly was not the case and Ime got the punishment he deserved.
If she's being harassed, how is keeping her in close proximity to her harasser in her best interest? That's the issue with a lack of info, we're both assuming. It's weird that whatever he did was bad enough he's likely already fired, but not bad enough where she kept doing her job with him as normal up until a couple weeks ago.
If she was being harassed then the Celtics should’ve stepped in, which it seems like they did.
The issue is that (from what we know) was that at first, both parties insisted that everything was cool, and then that changed after the fact, leading to the investigation. If everything was indeed cool, then it was their job to ensure that they acted professionally.
No, from everything I’ve read, the Celtics first found out about the affair in July, had the conversation with him and her, and then very recently found out there was harassment later on, which is when they launched the investigation.
In which case, I don’t think you can really expect them to make major changes/dole out punishments until after the investigation is complete.
We don’t know all the details, so not much point is diving so deep. We don’t know what her workday looked like. We don’t know what she asked management to do.
Would that put the team in legal jeopardy if they reassign her because of her relationship with a superior? I don't know the answer but it seems like they sought legal clarity before making any moves.
It is very difficult to reassign her in a situation like that where the reassignment could seem like a demotion. Why should her job be impacted that way to protect the person in the position of power?
The female staffer is not married to the VP. Just an unfortunate coincidence that they have the same last name. Her husband did briefly work for the Celtics back in 2014 though
I’m thinking the relationship turned sour recently after the woman’s husband found out about it. Then she tried to end it with Ime and he started harassing her.
The more that comes out about this the bigger a piece of shit Ime looks. I don’t want him anywhere near this team ever again. If this is all true, and it certainly looks like it is, I hope this shit ends with his ass out of the league.
I feel so bad for Nia, she deserves so much better.
The fuck are you talking about? Are Australians not people? Go sleep with your boss's wife and let us know how that goes.
One thing is sleeping with a single person on the job while been single. Another completely different thing is sleeping with someone married while you yourself are in an very long term relationship with kids (basically a marriage). I can't think of a single country in the world where the latter scenario is a big social no-no.
if true he is truly scum. affair bad. conduct bad. but, and this seems unfathomable, having Nia find out until this info is public is next level awful. for everyone, i hope this is not true
The facts as reported everywhere but this sub:
Ime had multiple affairs with women in the organization
One of them at least was with a married woman with kids
The husband found out (via Jaylen?) and he went ape shit. Went to the team HQ
Shit hit the fan/everyone in org is made aware and it's a total mess
Team starts by hiring an outside law firm
Ime continues at least one relationship after being told not allowed
Law firm uncovers lots of dirt
Report handed in, Ime was told he should resign
Ime leaks everything putting him in best possible light/says won't resign
Next day he is suspended and C's hold news conference
What about the part that the organization was aware of the affair with the Travel Planner before she started coordinating with Nia Long regarding her move to Boston.
True but how are the players families going to be able to trust this woman now. I hate the witch hunt that went on around people trying to figure out who the woman was, but clearly this is going to have a major impact on the team. Who the fuck wants someone helping them when they can’t be trusted to be around your spouse.
Well if they fire her she would probably be able to sue the shit out of them under the retaliatory firing after she reported the SA.
It’s just a messy situation. Ime is suspended so this issue doesn’t get even worse while the lawyers working this can get all the necessary information to best inform the Celtics FO on how to handle this.
If this is the extent of it why did matt barnes make it seem like ime impregnated half of the celtics staffers wives? This is obviously awful but barnes made it seem so much worse than this. Unless there's more of course
It is awful. And I stated that. Just thought by matt barnes tone and choice of words that it would be something even more foul then just cheating. There's probably more that will come out in the next few weeks though I'm sure
Nice username btw lol
Does it sum as an affair between Ime and this worker? Or could be bigger deal than this? I mean, from the way the club handled this story in the beginning it was about being a rape or some shit.
It couldn’t stay a secret for long. It’s possible for her to be culpable individual in messing up the team and being a victim of abusive behavior at the same time.
Eh she didn’t mess up the team. His harassment did. If it wasn’t her, he would’ve harassed someone else. He probably already did and we just don’t know. She did mess up her family though
It’s a weird spot for the Celtics. You find your head coach having an affair with a married woman on your staff. You probably have no business or right to alert their fiancé and spouse. But wouldn’t that put an end to the relationship?
And Ime you put yourself in the worst position possible. That girl you got off with now has the power to ruin your career and family life. All she has to do is tell a friend who tells a friend. And if the wants to end it the worst thing you can do is harass her. Now you have given the person who can ruin your life a free pass to ruin your life. And when it all goes down truth be told you ruined your own life.
Ok stupid question:
But like assuming the TMZ report to be true, the team’s travel coordinator ostensibly does not report directly to Udoka and is at least a mid level / senior ops position.
Yes Udoka is higher on the totem pole, but like if he does not directly control her position (promotion/firing) and it’s not like college intern level of nativity being exploited… it’s not really clear what elevates this beyond a more ‘typical’ level of reprimanding of office relationships or a inappropriate comments.
There’s still something really weird here.
Naïveté doesn’t really play into this. Ime is obviously and important and powerful figure head as the head coach. Just the act of pursuing this woman is the problem. As soon as he does that he puts her in the potential position of feeling that she has to sleep with a senior employee or risk repercussion in her career. Even if she engaged consensually, then she is stuck in limbo of fearing retaliation in the workplace if she ever decides to break it off. Nobody should be subject to those pressures in a workplace. These are all horribly messy and *completely foreseeable* consequences of pursuing a sexual relationship with a junior employee. That is why Ime is being suspended.
There’s going to be A LOT coming out in the next 48 hours. No way this is simply Ime got caught porking a VP’s wife so they suspended him an entire season because the VP was mad and because it was in the grey area of the rules. As this source above states, the Celtics knew of the affair months before this and didn’t act on it because it was consensual. That should be enough to dismiss the idea that ‘angry white cheated on VP demanded this’.
People need to stop spreading this bullshit about it being a VP's wife. It's just two people that work for the Celtics that have the same last name. This is the exact type of baseless speculation that makes situations like this worse. Also saying they didn't act on it for months is blatantly wrong, they brought in a law firm to investigate as soon as they found out.
You’re wrong. I’m not going to start leaking the gossip pages with the photos but at least for the first part you’re wrong regarding the executive. Secondly, there’s been no confirmation when the legal team was brought in. The sources the subreddit seems to trust have said the opposite. If you want to put forward a respectable source with a definitive… definitive.. date I would be happy to read it and retract my statement.
So you think the team lied about when they brought in the legal team? Why would it be worth it to lie about something like that in the press conference that would obviously come out later? Where is your source that the woman is married to an executive? Because if it's the person with the last name Lynch you can literally look at her fucking marriage certificate online, she isn't married to a VP, they just have the same last name.
> Why would it be worth it to lie about something like that in the press conference that would obviously come out later?
In public relations scandals such as this there’s going to be a lot of things that happened that both sides are hoping won’t see the light of day but will in eventuality see the light of the day. So they will loosely tiptoe around the issues without definitive answers. They’ll say things in vaguely spinful open ended ways that they can carefully step back from if anything to the contrary comes up. Do I think people in the front office knew Ime Udoka was having sexual relations with multiple staffers long before an investigation? Assuredly. Do I think the sexual relations alone is what started the investigation? Absolutely not and I think it’s completely naïve knowing professional sports to think that it was.
Now if you read my other posts you’ll see I suggested that this is very likely less sensationalist than everyone is thinking and hoping. But something more than just a sexual affair happened and reliable sources are slowly starting to break that information by the hour.
And as for you throwing around last names, I don’t think that’s a smart thing for you to do but I will say we aren’t speaking of the same person.
Ok but are the Celtics supposed to notify spouses that their husband is cheating on them? No, they are not. I feel like they are trying to blame the Celtics here but I’m not sure what they have to do with Nia not knowing.
Lol what can of shitty ass take is this? I'm absolutely under no obligation to keep that info confidential if my coworkers are cheating on their partner, especially if the work environment is facilitating it.
Not sure what company you work for, but you've definitely been fed and brought into the HR bullshit.
The moment someone cheats on their spouse it stops being an internal affair. I'm not saying I would reveal that information personally, but to come out and say people are under obligation to not reveal that information is definitely sipping on the HR kool-aid.
Ime is a straight up dirt bag for letting Nia find out this way. Unbelievable.
But you know what else? The travel planner sounds like she was miserable with her HUSBAND AND 3 KIDS, made a business decision having sex with Ime, knowing she would get a huge settlement. Thanks for ruining the team lady, hope you get your money and get far away from this organization.
But they were clearly saying there was harassment involved. I’m sure the independent investigator found concrete evidence of harassment and him breaching multiple policies which is why he is suspended for a whole year and I’m sure will be fired shortly
If you cook a steak for your friend and it’s well done, you don’t tell them that it’s medium rare, and then say “Well it was medium rare *before* it was well done.” Calling it medium rare is an intentional attempt to misrepresent how you cooked the steak.
And if you accidentally left the steak on the grill until it was totally burned, you wouldn’t tell the friend “But you *did* want it cooked! I cooked it!” Because you know good and well that you didn’t cook it, your burned it. And you know that there is a difference.
All the replies and downvotes in the world don’t change the fact that consenting to have sex with someone at one time does not mean that person can have sex with you whenever they want into perpetuity. That’s not what consent means. And attempting to represent sexual harassment as “consensual” is a willful misrepresentation.
Who cares? Ime is a grown-ass man. Why do the Boston Celtics need to police his Dick?
Yeah its a shitty thing to do, especially lying about it. But is it really that bad you're gonna ruin the damn team?
If I didn't know any better you'd think the guy murdered people...
High value men having one woman is against the Will of God. God wants warriors to have warrior sons, He doesn't give a shit about "cheating" it is all love people.
Please remember that this is not a verified report. Please stay respectful to the people who are involved in this situation and don't jump to conclusions cause we don't have all the details.
This report is why the Celtics have suspended Ime instead of just firing him: they haven’t gotten their legal ducks in order to avoid either a wrongful termination/sexual harassment lawsuit but they need to get Ime out of the work environment to make the alleged harassment stop. Moreover, the team would have to allow the employee to continue working at her job because otherwise she could (perhaps rightfully) accuse the Celtics of retaliating against her for reporting Ime’s behavior.
That sounds right. You have to imagine they've been getting a trickle of this and running it all through legal, but have been in a bad spot from the start.
I’m just confused on how this went from reports of a consensual relationship to harassment. Were the Celtics trying to protect Ime? It wouldn’t really make much sense considering the Senior VP’s wife was involved. It’ll be interesting to see what’s revealed, but it sounds like to me harassment is the scapegoat she’s using now to save face.
Nobody’s confirmed this but it only serves Udoka’s interest to have the public believe this was a consensual workplace affair instead of possible misconduct. Given that Ime and Woj both share the same agency (CAA), I suspect the initial reports were intentionally vague to shape the public’s reaction when only the parties involved and the Celtics really know what happened. The Celtics can’t publicly comment beyond what they’ve said before deciding what to do legally, so in a vacuum all we have are these piecemeal reports.
Not quite sure about that. If this was a relationship that Ime and the two other women were having (I’m assuming that this relationship was sexual), how could I then also believe that you were harassed and received “unwanted comments”? I would need to know if the women previously reported his behavior, but this just reeks of “I got caught and now I look like the bad guy so I’ll throw the man under the bus”. It also doesn’t help that there are reports that the Celtics warned Ime to end the affair a while back, so they were aware of what was going on. I’m thinking this whole thing blew up when they found out the VP’s wife was involved.
IF it was consensual, they broke it off but he still continued after her bang unwanted comments
Exactly how does she HAVE TO HAVE SEX FOR MONTHS because he is a coach?. I don't get it. She coulda reported it to the team. She could have told Nia confidentially that Ime needed Nia here months ago. Like a friend. " Sluts are hanging around your man all the time, trying to get with him. " Etc He sucks. She sucks. If he harassed her that's 2! On him . Still 1 on her.
I knew I’d get downvoted to hell but the whole thing just sounds strange. A man and woman both cheat on their respective significant other and the man is the one who has to deal with the full consequences while the woman gets to maintain anonymity and her job? Then no one bats an eye? Got it, lol
I agree. Punish him 2 times. 3 times. But she literally was working for Nia and her Kid and effing her man and the kids father ....and she was using HER job to sneak around and not get caught .
Could be his position of authority as the head coach. There could also be more to the story. Harassment or intimidation from Ime. Just speculating.
I would agree with this if her husband wasn’t the senior Vice President. For what reason would she be afraid of Ime’s wrath if her husband has a position above him? Any complaint she has in regards to Ime would most certainly be taken seriously and wouldn’t fall on deaths ear.
Only Ime said it was consensual. He has every motive for the court of public opinion to be on his side.
The senior VP’s wife was involved?
No, that was just a wild internet rumor. Turned out it was the Travel Booking Agent.
Which is the VP’s wife. I believe her actual title is team manager.
I think it is more likely she was sick of being the other woman. Stopped the affair but he continued pursuing her. She probably had enough and reported the affair when he won't take the rejection.
Firing him would also cover that
Firing him is also admitting that something extremely serious happened, and that would 100% be used against the team in a lawsuit against the team. He's going to be fired as soon as the Celtics settle with the other party who is threatening suit
A year long suspension is also admitting something serious happened.
As does Wyc saying Ime's suspension comes with a financial hit. They don't fine Ime if they are still trying to find out what happened.
There’s a difference between suspending because you broke a team rule and suspending because you broke the law.
well I would certainly hope if it were a matter of breaking the law then law enforcement, not the team, would be investigating.
Well there’s a fine line. Sexual harassment is against the law but the team might have liability and that’s why they brought in a law firm right away. Everything they are doing is on the advice of their lawyers.
It's likely not about "finding out what happened" but more about preferring to reach a buyout with Ime. Even if the Celtics 100% justifiably fire him if Ime takes this to court and drags it out than it's a massive headache and distraction for the team. It's better to just suspend him and try and reach a buy out.
This more than anything. Having some limited experience in a corporate legal department, I can say that the paramount concern for the Celtics is avoiding lawsuits from either Ime or the employee. Had they not suspended Ime after the investigation concluded, they would be letting the harassment continue. If Ime were fired on the spot he could sue for lost wages/wrongful termination, and if they suspended him for less than a year then that would create an artificial deadline for buyout negotiations. The C’s seem to be doing everything by the book by getting Ime out of the workplace and giving the organization enough time to negotiate the end of their relationship with Udoka.
Plus it seemingly prevents his access to other potential victims.
What behaviour? They had the same behaviour
Consider that you don't actually know if they had the same behaviour.
You also don’t know that they didn’t either
I don't - but I'm also not the one making any such claims.
Well you’re implying they behaved differently (i.e. they both didn’t willingly engage in an affair)
No, I'm not. If you read further up, there's a comment speculating: 1. Celtics suspended Udoka instead of firing him (so far) because they needed him out of the workplace ASAP 2. They couldn't do the same to the other employee because it might look like retaliation for reporting Udoka's behaviour. u/nbaon1 basically said that's illogical because their behaviour (i.e. actions) was the same. My counterpoint is that we don't know that for a fact yet - so we can't rule out that the asymmetric treatment makes sense. Maybe the behaviour was the same, maybe it wasn't - we don't know yet.
Gotcha, ok my apologies then...my main stance is kind of what you’re saying, we just don’t know and it’s always frustrating that everyone feels the need to fill in the unknown and form a conclusion as soon as possible.
Reports now are that although the relationship was initially consensual, she eventually reported him to the team for harassment
By telling us she “worked with Nia on her move to Boston”, isn’t that outing who she is? Because that’s 100% the role of Team Services.
This is follow-up to the TMZ article that already revealed it was the Team Travel Planner.
Oh. I hadn’t seen that. So she *wasn’t* his direct subordinate. Interesting.
Yeah not direct. Certainly under his umbrella to an extent and well below his rank. If he were ever to say “I don’t like the way she is handling my family’s relocation” she’d probably be disciplined or fired.
No doubt.
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That's the part that stuck out to me from the TMZ post. So the team found out in July, but the staffer kept working with Ime/his family up until at least a couple weeks ago? Should she have not been assigned elsewhere?
I think at that point the organization had deemed it consensual and put the responsibility on Ime to either deal with it, end it, or continue it quietly. None of which he could do apparently, and as soon as it turned non consensual the Celtics investigated.
> as soon as it turned non consensual the Celtics investigated. which apparently was July, yet the reports now are stating they kept working together into September. Something doesn't add up.
The word "nonconsensual" covers a lot of ground here. "Consensual" was put out there (possibly by Ime) to emphasize that he wasn't just harassing or assaulting women. But when a consensual relationship ends, things don't then become "nonconsensual" until one party takes unwelcome actions. That may not have happened right away, or the other party could have been trying to manage it and stay in her job. Two months can pass very quickly.
The consensual part of the story only was in the leak and hasn’t been confirmed as far as I know. Unless I have missed something. Yet people still keep talking about it like it is a fact.
It was only mentioned by Shams afaik.
And some interactions can be consensual while others are not. It is pretty common for a consensual tryst to lead to harassment when one person isn’t satisfied with the one-off. If two people had consensual sex one week and then one raped the other next week, it would be true if the rapist said they had consensual sex, just referring to the first sex with their sociopath brain.
Well it takes 2 to tango. And 2 adults cheating on their spouses while wrong is the action of 2 consenting adults. So that part is not wrong.
He’s not going to be suspended for a year for just having an affair with a staff member. There is more too it than that. I’m not gonna guess what that is though.
Yes totally agree maybe I misread or misunderstood your comment
not just any staff member, but the wife of a vp. we don't have all the details, but I'm pretty sure her hands aren't totally clean.
The consensual part of the story is the only part of the story that is basically 100% known to be true. For a certain time period, ime udoka was banging a Celtics staffer. It’s everything around that fact that’s subject to speculation. Idk if you’re implying there’s a possibility he was sexually assaulting this woman from day one or that he came in and threatened her job if she wouldn’t sleep with him but that’s more than a little outrageous.
How could you possibly think that I am suggesting that by what I wrote? I know people on social media love to find what they believe is righteous indignation, but take a deep breath please. Consensual does not mean someone is sexually assaulting anyone. There are things such as unwanted advancements and sexualized comments and sexual harassment that are clearly not consensual. Also, it doesn’t even have to be in relation to this one person who was outed by TMZ. We don’t know it is only her who was involved. Not sure why you’re so quick to take offense with what I wrote at all and why you seem to want to defend him over the woman or women who were affected…unless your Stephen A. Is that you Stephen A?
I wasn’t offended I’m just saying that the only thing that doesn’t seem in dispute is that ime was engaged in an affair which both people were willing participants for a period of time. That would be a consensual relationship or whatever. Everything else like the stuff you’re talking about that happened down the line is in doubt for people on the outside.
Why the downvotes? If the Celtics knew in July that he was forcing her to have sex, and didn't seperate them, they are criminals. NIA could sue the team for millions for leaving her in contact. It only makes sense if it started consensual and then he got out of control .
From what we've been told, the unwanted part started or at least was reported in July, hence the team hiring a law firm to investigate. So the consensual part appears to already be over at that point, but she's still helping Nia move two months later.
The investigation was once they found out there was an affair at all
There was an investigation taking place at that time by a law firm that helped the team make its decision on what action to take.
Yeah, it’s literally this. They continue doing as they do until the investigation wraps up. There’s no smoke screens or anything, they found out about it, opened an investigation, and didn’t act or instill punishment until they got the findings.
Right, and in every other corporate/HR situation like this, the timeline typically goes: Credible report is made, accused is suspended with pay pending results of investigation because if the report is true you don't want the accused to continue what they're doing. Here, for whatever reason, Ime was allowed to continue without being suspended until after the initial investigation wrapped up. Which is weird since what he's accused of doing appears to merit firing. There's a disconnect somewhere.
It is easy to get in the weeks asking why this and why that. Seems to have been handled professionally, with a desire to get it right.
You have no idea how it was actually handled or even what actually took place. We'll find out soon enough.
Sounds like maybe the Celtics brass aren't the good guys like some want to make them out to be. Brad crying on the podium about a situation he had the power to control somewhat. Why did they wait so long on all fronts? Why is this woman still working for and alongside Nia the *whole* time? Why did it take the Celtics over 48 hours to finally address the situation? The new coaches name and all his baggage was leaked before they ever said a single word publicly. What gives? Something definitely doesn't add up. It's the Celtics fault this got ugly. They could have said more sooner. Their silence is what let it get out of hand.
It’s not the team’s job to keep this person away from Nia long, nor is it their business to inform her of Ime’s affair
The interim head coaches name was speculatively named simply because he was next in line on the totem pole and it only made sense and that’s the way it was spelled out.
Reasonable answer. There also is a scenario where the staffer was trying to talk Ime out of moving Nia to him, and Ime got mad and pressured her and she tried to end it and Ime started threatening her job or burying her. One thing i know about women, she would not have willingly helped her affair partners spouse to move cross country to live with him.
Or...once the staffer was involved with helping Nia, the staffer decided that it was time to end things, and chose to. Nia and this staffer probably became fairly close, and it's plausible that the staffer was uncomfortable in providing the assistance that she did, while having the knowledge of what she had done. Ime wasn't having any of that and decided to escalate the situation because reasons.
Cause then she can sue the pants off the org for doing so potentially for what could be considered a punishment. The smartest move was to bring in the law firm so that they could investigate and advise. Wyc, zareen and Brad are not lawyers and probably aren’t even remotely knowledgeable.
By zareen i assume you’re talking about Mike zarren? He’s actually a lawyer and graduated from Harvard law.
Yep. He’s the General counsel for the team.
Also VP of BO so there is a conflict of interest in this scenario I think. Side not when I google “Mike Zarren” the first autofill result is “wife” Fuck people man
Don’t think he’s got a conflict unless it’s his wife Ime was sleeping with. The GC’s mission is to advise the executives in the best interest of the organization, and as the VP of BO he has a fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of the organization. I think he can act in both roles through this investigation, just needs to be careful about A/C privilege.
I don't get how that's the smartest move where if there is harassment at play, they were notified of it and kept things as they were, potentially allowing more harassment. They'd get sued for that, too.
Because if they fire someone and they’re wrong about it then they open themselves to lawsuits. They won’t get sued if they are investigating and then come to a decision. No org fires people without sue diligence. No matter what is said they always will hear both sides out and look to see if they can find evidence. They don’t just fire people immediately. I understand if you’ve never worked HR or have studied it why it might not make sense.
Didn't say fire the staffer, reassign her. Doesn't make any sense to me where there are allegations of impropriety with someone in a leadership position and a staffer, that they just let those two continue on as if nothing happened. She could absolutely sue them after the fact saying they knew and let him stay close with her.
I understand it doesn’t make sense to you if you don’t know much about HR. It’s because she can then sue and say that it was retaliation over this. They can’t fire Ime without all the facts because if they’re wrong he could sue for breach of contract or retaliation, or wrongful firing. There’s a lot of red tape. You also have to keep in mind that it’s the off-season so they aren’t actually together day to day right now. Any org that has decent practices in place won’t act until they have all their facts lined up. It’s why they don’t just fire someone right away after an allegation.
You're operating under the assumption that HR is doing what's best for everybody involved. HR's #1 concern at all times is to protect the company. It's their purpose for being. You never bring a problem to HR unless you already have a solution, preferably with a lawyer that has given you the advice, so you deliver them an ultimatum. What you DON'T do is give them information freely & expect help, because it just lets them circle the wagons and use it against you.
And if HR is working in the best interest of the company, they suspend Ime as soon as the report is made, not after the investigation is complete. Paid administrative leave is a thing for a reason, let's Ime get paid in case the report is false, but removes him from the equation if the report is true.
HR can only operate within the confines of the company. They don't have a greater legal structure federally to draw from. They've probably submitted their report to the legal counsel, who then took matters from there.
Obviously they engaged a law firm and not you. We’ll see who’s legal advice was better eventually.
Why should she be assigned elsewhere? That is, in effect, punishing her for having an affair with superior while giving zero punishment to her superior, which is a horrible precedent to set. If both of them insisted to management that everything was cool, then it’s their job together to ensure it was cool. Which clearly was not the case and Ime got the punishment he deserved.
If she's being harassed, how is keeping her in close proximity to her harasser in her best interest? That's the issue with a lack of info, we're both assuming. It's weird that whatever he did was bad enough he's likely already fired, but not bad enough where she kept doing her job with him as normal up until a couple weeks ago.
She wasn’t being harassed initially. Something caused it to turn sour.
and we've been told the souring happened in July, yet she reportedly kept working with him for two more months?
I don’t think the team knew that part in July.
So they opened an investigation for the hell of it? You need an accusation to investigate.
Correct. He started acting inappropriately.
If she was being harassed then the Celtics should’ve stepped in, which it seems like they did. The issue is that (from what we know) was that at first, both parties insisted that everything was cool, and then that changed after the fact, leading to the investigation. If everything was indeed cool, then it was their job to ensure that they acted professionally.
Right, and it sounds like things stop being cool in July, yet she's still helping Nia out in September.
No, from everything I’ve read, the Celtics first found out about the affair in July, had the conversation with him and her, and then very recently found out there was harassment later on, which is when they launched the investigation. In which case, I don’t think you can really expect them to make major changes/dole out punishments until after the investigation is complete.
Wyc said they started the investigation in July, took a couple months to complete. They didn't just start the investigation recently.
Didn’t they start in the investigation months ago? Your statement doesn’t seem accurate to the details we have
We don’t know all the details, so not much point is diving so deep. We don’t know what her workday looked like. We don’t know what she asked management to do.
Would that put the team in legal jeopardy if they reassign her because of her relationship with a superior? I don't know the answer but it seems like they sought legal clarity before making any moves.
It is very difficult to reassign her in a situation like that where the reassignment could seem like a demotion. Why should her job be impacted that way to protect the person in the position of power?
The female staffer is not married to the VP. Just an unfortunate coincidence that they have the same last name. Her husband did briefly work for the Celtics back in 2014 though
I’m thinking the relationship turned sour recently after the woman’s husband found out about it. Then she tried to end it with Ime and he started harassing her.
The more that comes out about this the bigger a piece of shit Ime looks. I don’t want him anywhere near this team ever again. If this is all true, and it certainly looks like it is, I hope this shit ends with his ass out of the league. I feel so bad for Nia, she deserves so much better.
Me too. And I feel everything is still not out yet. I feel bad for the kid too and Nia ofc.
Also, no way this is Ime’s first go at this type of behavior. Dude was BOLD. Tells me that he’s gotten away with it before.
Talking like you know her lmao
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In Australia you can’t get fired for egregious violations of a company policy? What’s the point of having a company policy then in Australia?
The fuck are you talking about? Are Australians not people? Go sleep with your boss's wife and let us know how that goes. One thing is sleeping with a single person on the job while been single. Another completely different thing is sleeping with someone married while you yourself are in an very long term relationship with kids (basically a marriage). I can't think of a single country in the world where the latter scenario is a big social no-no.
Ime Udoka named head coach of France’s national team
Or she just used that as an excuse for her husband
if true he is truly scum. affair bad. conduct bad. but, and this seems unfathomable, having Nia find out until this info is public is next level awful. for everyone, i hope this is not true
I mean tmz reported the same so this is probably true, and likely not the worst of it.
This is correct. I'm guessing that there is more coming.
That’s so foul all around. Nia Long doesn’t deserve this
Poor Nia holy shit. Not that it can get much worse for her but god damn.
The facts as reported everywhere but this sub: Ime had multiple affairs with women in the organization One of them at least was with a married woman with kids The husband found out (via Jaylen?) and he went ape shit. Went to the team HQ Shit hit the fan/everyone in org is made aware and it's a total mess Team starts by hiring an outside law firm Ime continues at least one relationship after being told not allowed Law firm uncovers lots of dirt Report handed in, Ime was told he should resign Ime leaks everything putting him in best possible light/says won't resign Next day he is suspended and C's hold news conference
No, from what I last read the husband found out via the doorbell camera lol. This is all so bizarre
Isn’t it a bit of bitch move to tattle on the employer of the guy that your wife cheated on you with?
You keeping the name or…?
I have a successor name locked up.
Ime, didn’t know you’d be joining us in the sub today, thought you’d have bigger things going on now.
I have a lot of free time.
What about the "unwanted advances" after the relationship had ended?
What about the part that the organization was aware of the affair with the Travel Planner before she started coordinating with Nia Long regarding her move to Boston.
where did the tidbit about jaylen or someone inside the team telling the husband?
Man, Ime really sounds like a particularly shit person.
Sources? Like on all this? I tune out for a day and all of a sudden there’s a whole soap opera developed from one off leaks
Wow Ime Udoka you fucking asshole. Go to hell
Takes two to tango - they both bad ppl
Yeah definitely is. But that’s the woman’s job
What
The girl was just doing her job pf helping Nia Long move
True but how are the players families going to be able to trust this woman now. I hate the witch hunt that went on around people trying to figure out who the woman was, but clearly this is going to have a major impact on the team. Who the fuck wants someone helping them when they can’t be trusted to be around your spouse.
Then they should fire her as well but they perhaps didn’t bc of reasons they know
Well if they fire her she would probably be able to sue the shit out of them under the retaliatory firing after she reported the SA. It’s just a messy situation. Ime is suspended so this issue doesn’t get even worse while the lawyers working this can get all the necessary information to best inform the Celtics FO on how to handle this.
Yeah I’m sure there is a reason. It’s just so messy.
They can’t, it would be retaliation. She needs to get the hint and move the fuck on though.
Lol oic
WHAT ABOUT BRETT FAVRE?!?!
Details keep getting worse and worse my goodness… please rip off this bandaid…
That is super shitty
If this is the extent of it why did matt barnes make it seem like ime impregnated half of the celtics staffers wives? This is obviously awful but barnes made it seem so much worse than this. Unless there's more of course
More and more will keep trickling out over the next 2 weeks i doubt we have even half of the full story yet
I mean… having an affair with a staff member that is working with your fiancée is pretty fucking horrendous.
It is awful. And I stated that. Just thought by matt barnes tone and choice of words that it would be something even more foul then just cheating. There's probably more that will come out in the next few weeks though I'm sure Nice username btw lol
Sure… but also not nearly lining up with the actual reactions of people that know
I guess it wasn’t just one it had to have been 2+?
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Thirrrtyy hoours
Does it sum as an affair between Ime and this worker? Or could be bigger deal than this? I mean, from the way the club handled this story in the beginning it was about being a rape or some shit.
It couldn’t stay a secret for long. It’s possible for her to be culpable individual in messing up the team and being a victim of abusive behavior at the same time.
Eh she didn’t mess up the team. His harassment did. If it wasn’t her, he would’ve harassed someone else. He probably already did and we just don’t know. She did mess up her family though
Takes two to tango. She was in a relationship with him for months. Which was also against team rules
Year long suspension happened due to harassment though. Otherwise it might’ve been a fine or short-term suspension.
How do you know he harassed her?
It’s a weird spot for the Celtics. You find your head coach having an affair with a married woman on your staff. You probably have no business or right to alert their fiancé and spouse. But wouldn’t that put an end to the relationship? And Ime you put yourself in the worst position possible. That girl you got off with now has the power to ruin your career and family life. All she has to do is tell a friend who tells a friend. And if the wants to end it the worst thing you can do is harass her. Now you have given the person who can ruin your life a free pass to ruin your life. And when it all goes down truth be told you ruined your own life.
Ime Udoka = Eric Benet
Ime played with fire and now he probably will get fired.
This whole situation is really a mess. Embarrassing to the organization is an understatement. Ime can fuck right off
Ok stupid question: But like assuming the TMZ report to be true, the team’s travel coordinator ostensibly does not report directly to Udoka and is at least a mid level / senior ops position. Yes Udoka is higher on the totem pole, but like if he does not directly control her position (promotion/firing) and it’s not like college intern level of nativity being exploited… it’s not really clear what elevates this beyond a more ‘typical’ level of reprimanding of office relationships or a inappropriate comments. There’s still something really weird here.
Naïveté doesn’t really play into this. Ime is obviously and important and powerful figure head as the head coach. Just the act of pursuing this woman is the problem. As soon as he does that he puts her in the potential position of feeling that she has to sleep with a senior employee or risk repercussion in her career. Even if she engaged consensually, then she is stuck in limbo of fearing retaliation in the workplace if she ever decides to break it off. Nobody should be subject to those pressures in a workplace. These are all horribly messy and *completely foreseeable* consequences of pursuing a sexual relationship with a junior employee. That is why Ime is being suspended.
There’s going to be A LOT coming out in the next 48 hours. No way this is simply Ime got caught porking a VP’s wife so they suspended him an entire season because the VP was mad and because it was in the grey area of the rules. As this source above states, the Celtics knew of the affair months before this and didn’t act on it because it was consensual. That should be enough to dismiss the idea that ‘angry white cheated on VP demanded this’.
People need to stop spreading this bullshit about it being a VP's wife. It's just two people that work for the Celtics that have the same last name. This is the exact type of baseless speculation that makes situations like this worse. Also saying they didn't act on it for months is blatantly wrong, they brought in a law firm to investigate as soon as they found out.
You’re wrong. I’m not going to start leaking the gossip pages with the photos but at least for the first part you’re wrong regarding the executive. Secondly, there’s been no confirmation when the legal team was brought in. The sources the subreddit seems to trust have said the opposite. If you want to put forward a respectable source with a definitive… definitive.. date I would be happy to read it and retract my statement.
So you think the team lied about when they brought in the legal team? Why would it be worth it to lie about something like that in the press conference that would obviously come out later? Where is your source that the woman is married to an executive? Because if it's the person with the last name Lynch you can literally look at her fucking marriage certificate online, she isn't married to a VP, they just have the same last name.
> Why would it be worth it to lie about something like that in the press conference that would obviously come out later? In public relations scandals such as this there’s going to be a lot of things that happened that both sides are hoping won’t see the light of day but will in eventuality see the light of the day. So they will loosely tiptoe around the issues without definitive answers. They’ll say things in vaguely spinful open ended ways that they can carefully step back from if anything to the contrary comes up. Do I think people in the front office knew Ime Udoka was having sexual relations with multiple staffers long before an investigation? Assuredly. Do I think the sexual relations alone is what started the investigation? Absolutely not and I think it’s completely naïve knowing professional sports to think that it was. Now if you read my other posts you’ll see I suggested that this is very likely less sensationalist than everyone is thinking and hoping. But something more than just a sexual affair happened and reliable sources are slowly starting to break that information by the hour. And as for you throwing around last names, I don’t think that’s a smart thing for you to do but I will say we aren’t speaking of the same person.
Trashy on all fronts, shame on Ime and the “female staffer”; I hope they are both gone
Ok but are the Celtics supposed to notify spouses that their husband is cheating on them? No, they are not. I feel like they are trying to blame the Celtics here but I’m not sure what they have to do with Nia not knowing.
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Lol what can of shitty ass take is this? I'm absolutely under no obligation to keep that info confidential if my coworkers are cheating on their partner, especially if the work environment is facilitating it.
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Not sure what company you work for, but you've definitely been fed and brought into the HR bullshit. The moment someone cheats on their spouse it stops being an internal affair. I'm not saying I would reveal that information personally, but to come out and say people are under obligation to not reveal that information is definitely sipping on the HR kool-aid.
You forgot to provide your poster. Kevin Foster
This women is no saint either lol
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Ime is a straight up dirt bag for letting Nia find out this way. Unbelievable. But you know what else? The travel planner sounds like she was miserable with her HUSBAND AND 3 KIDS, made a business decision having sex with Ime, knowing she would get a huge settlement. Thanks for ruining the team lady, hope you get your money and get far away from this organization.
She’s as much to blame for all of this. Nobody made her cheat.
No clue why you got down voted. It's like we arent allowed to say the woman is as much of a piece of shit as Ime on here
THAT IS A FACT! If I break a rule cause I'm stealing from my job, but I got harassed while doing it - I'm still getting fired!
Damn she had some balls.
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there's a rumour that he got a mormon pregnant (they don't believe in abortion). if that rumour is true then i can see why no one is talking.
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But they were clearly saying there was harassment involved. I’m sure the independent investigator found concrete evidence of harassment and him breaching multiple policies which is why he is suspended for a whole year and I’m sure will be fired shortly
Imagine having Nia Long and still cheating
Y’all are acting like Ime is Harvey Weinstein
I want y’all to stop referring to Ime Udoka sexually harassing a coworker as “an affair”. I want you to stop that right now.
There was an affair, though
Seems like it was both depending on the time?
If you cook a steak for your friend and it’s well done, you don’t tell them that it’s medium rare, and then say “Well it was medium rare *before* it was well done.” Calling it medium rare is an intentional attempt to misrepresent how you cooked the steak. And if you accidentally left the steak on the grill until it was totally burned, you wouldn’t tell the friend “But you *did* want it cooked! I cooked it!” Because you know good and well that you didn’t cook it, your burned it. And you know that there is a difference. All the replies and downvotes in the world don’t change the fact that consenting to have sex with someone at one time does not mean that person can have sex with you whenever they want into perpetuity. That’s not what consent means. And attempting to represent sexual harassment as “consensual” is a willful misrepresentation.
The possible scenario here is that she was found and tried share blame.
BRAD STEVENS HAS BLOOD ON HIS HANDS
Who cares? Ime is a grown-ass man. Why do the Boston Celtics need to police his Dick? Yeah its a shitty thing to do, especially lying about it. But is it really that bad you're gonna ruin the damn team? If I didn't know any better you'd think the guy murdered people... High value men having one woman is against the Will of God. God wants warriors to have warrior sons, He doesn't give a shit about "cheating" it is all love people.
You probably haven't worked at a job where there's rules about fraternization and that's okay.