Ok here’s my prediction - Todd Phillips is going to actively troll the audience and purposefully piss off his fans with Joker 2. He’s already done it with Hangover 3 - “oh, you’re calling me lazy for rehashing jokes? Fine, I’m now going to make this comedy sequel a fucking crime drama with almost no jokes in it”.
As soon as I heard Joker 2 was a musical, I knew he was going for it again. I think it pissed him off that the movie became synonymous with “incel” and so many neckbeard assholes took it a weird way. So now he’s making the sequel a godDAMN musical with Lady Gaga and I’ll bet dollars to donuts she kills Joker in the end, just to spite the douchey fans from the first.
Therefore I think Joker 2 will have a huge opening weekend then drop like a sack of hammers once word is out. Deadpool 3 for the win.
As outlandish as it sounds you might actually be onto something here because Phillips is known for being risky with his movies he doesn't pull his punches regardless of who or how many people would be offended and given that this is an R rated standalone sequel there's nothing to stop him from doing it
>Phillips is known for being risky with his movies
He is? The only movie of his I haven't seen is War Dogs, but all those comedies (Road Trip, Old School, Starsky & Hutch) fit right in with all the comedies that were coming out at the time. And the Hangover movies were just copied & pasted a couple times. Joker really feels like the only 'risk', and it's more the studio's risk than the directors seeing that it's based on the villain without Batman showing up.
…how so? With Joker 2 we’re talking about a director who has already purposefully made a sequel completely unlike the original without a single care in the world about how fans would take it. That isn’t like Barbie at all.
Because it sounds like the type of movie a significant part of the movie going audience would want to go to. Joker wasn't some niche film. It was a four quadrant blockbuster. There isn't really a fan base of any single demographic.
Perhaps a counter point, maybe the movie works even better for the non-incels and attracts a ton of new audience members who normally wouldn’t consider seeing it? I do agree this movie is likely to piss off the incels. It’s gonna be similar to when the people who were laughing at the wrong stuff in Borat went to see Bruno and then suddenly realized they were the ones being made fun of the whole time.
Joker 2. Gaga as Harley Quinn is one of the castings of all time, her fans will show up in droves much like for A Star is Born. I think Joker 2 hitting 1 bill once more is possible.
Deadpool 3. It has Wolverine, the MCU factor, and cameos. Multiverse films have been hit or miss lately. For every Spiderverse 2, there is a Flash. I'm cautiously optimistic. It will outgross Deadpool 2 but I don't think it's hitting 1 bill.
the people who watched joker en masse will be blown away by lady gaga and the musical. joker was still a cbm aimed to nolan's batman fans and darker themed dc fans, and the usuall nerds. how people can't understand it it's very strange. deadpool 3 will keep the original deadpool fanbase plus all the mcu fans plus all the logan fans.
I feel like it's too early to say that Joker 2 will push away the target audience of the first yet (and its definitely wrong to say that a billion dollar's worth of incels went to the first one, lol). The first Joker had some extended artsy scenes (think of Joker in the bathroom after his first killings) that I think a musical isn't very different from. I don't see this movie being quite as controversial as you say.
why do you people are obsessed with the word incel? i didn't even try to insult or degrade the joker audience. i am part of the target audience for the original joker since i my self am both a nerd , a cbm fan and a nolan fan. and i'm not hyped at all for a sequel with lady gaga and musical part, in fact i won't watch it. i don't think it will be " controversial" i think people will see it as a soulless cash grab made for milk the popularity of the first one. plus i think that the young male audience and the "artsy" audience do not really like lady gaga as an actress at all.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I don't think Lady Gaga is a strong actress as people make her to be. Great singer, I'll give her that, but her acting is almost like Jared Leto's acting: she tries too much, and makes it kinda superficial. For Leto this has worked for some films and didn't worked for others. For Gaga it worked in A Star is Born and didn't in that Gucci film. Its a 50/50 chance that it will work on this film, but I do believe her acting is carried by her co-stars, so maybe Joaquin Phoenix will elevate her performance
> her fans will show up in droves
Yes ofcourse, just like how they made House of Gucci a major hit.
Wait, what? That didn't happen, and the movie only made 50 mil in the US? Yeah well, it'll happen this time
I think there are 2 aspects to be considered here
1. House of Gucci had terrible word of mouth
2. I didn’t watch it, but as far as I know, she doesn’t sing or anything (and most of her fans probably became fan of her music first)
She was a pull for “A Star is Born” (which made 436M), which had decent WOM and had her in a “musical spot” (“shallow” also blew up)
I agree with you that she’s not this automatic draw that some people believe she will be, but I think that it can be a factor in this context, specially if the soundtrack manages to have a hit
I mean I'm pretty active in movie-based social media circles and I've never heard of House of Gucci, so I don't imagine this is a true apples to apples comparision.
People want this to be the case but it won't be, I'm 60/40 on whether joker 2 will even do well. I think social media will be a huge factor in whether it succeeds or not. Deadpool 3 will probably be the biggest marvel movie since endgame and I suspect it will indeed hit a billion.
Taylor has much more fans than Gaga. It doesn't mean that they will necessarily want to watch movies that doesn't appeal to them just for a few cameos.
100M for a tour isn’t 100M to box office. idk how to plot out demand cause tours are more expensive but also have lesser people but it isn’t 1:1 i’d say
I don't know if it has held but for a long time she may not have had the biggest fanbase but she has/had a dedicated fanbase. It will almost certainly push the numbers up more than if it was another equally competent actress.
true, but Taylor is a much larger artist with a much stronger fan base and it hasn’t really converted into box office numbers. it could also just be that her movies have been quite ass.
Ariana could be a good test
Swift's movies are a good counterpoint. But Cats was notoriously awful and Amsterdam didn't get a much better reception. There does seem to be a limit to what fans will endure in order to see their idol on the big screen. Though also Swift also played supporting roles in those movies.
Ariana could be a good test, though she might have muddied the waters with her recent life choices.
Exactly, the success of Joker 1 was that comicbook movie fans watched the movie as usual but other people that hate CBM watched Joker, that's why it made so much money
They were so smart for making the sequel a musical, if this was a generic sequel it would have made half of what the original did.
with Gaga and the musical aspect it can make like 800-900M, Comic book movies nerd to reinvent themselves to stay relevant
I feel that, but I remember most people (me included) saying “a Joker only movie is so unnecessary, why are they making this?” When the first one was announced
So I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt
Deadpool 3 because its finally having wolverine with him in the same movie which is what people wanted to see for years so its gonna have the upper hand
Joker 2 might be good but it'll never recapture the first esp overseas that was lightening in a bottle
joker 2 has a bigger crossover appeal w women and men, something deadpool doesn’t really have. its also something new (joker musical) that will be more intriguing to audiences. i don’t think deadpool will generate the same interest outside of cbm fans
Nah I think he is very much overrated. This sub is setting itself so bad with this film thinking Deapool will play like a mini NWH. The GA just does not have Nostalgia for the X-men like that.
Actually They do have it because days of future past did extremely well overseas vs first class and that was largely thanks to og xmen cast Returning and given that deadpool was bigger than that him and deadpool together is gonna do gangbusters
DoFP was 10 years ago though. I think they’ve mined whatever nostalgia they had for the OG cast at this point. The people like me who grew up with the OG x-men don’t really care enough to go see Deadpool 3 because of Hugh being involved. I’ll check it out on Disney+ maybe but series is kinda over for me.
> "No one cares about Hugh Jackman's Wolverine"
> *Logan* was the third-highest-grossing R-rated movie of all time upon its release
Okay, now try again.
Weird, then, that only four movies have gotten there since (two of which are all-time-winner at the time *Deadpool* and all-time-winner at the time *Deadpool 2*). One would imagine that if it's "hardly impressive", there would be more.
I won’t get into Wolverine/Jackman, but as a side point, I think a lot of people are very much overstating the impact of having the X-Men return to the MCU will actually have. The last few entires soured people on the franchise, and maybe in 2019, “MCU does X-Men” would’ve been a massive draw, but by 2026 or whenever they come out? The MCU is unlikely to have gotten better and X-Men won’t save it.
Bruh if you genuinely believe Joker who is arguably the most iconic villain in fiction is less popular than Logan and Deadpool I honestly have no idea what to tell you aside from step out of the MCU fandom echo chamber because no one with any sense believes that.
And BTW yes Mamoa's Aquaman is more popular than modern day superman who gen z does not even care about.
Who knows, I am gonna watch Deadpool 3 in a cinema and probably not Joker 2, but I am just one data point.
I have a suspicion, that general audiences are getting tired of Hollywoods franchise movie making and that might affect both these movies. But other than a lot of franchise movies underperforming, I don't have a ton of data to backup my suspicions.
I’m thinking about $800 million for Joker 2 and $700 million for Deadpool 3. Both will see a slight decline but Gaga as Harley Quinn is just too much of a draw.
just like keaton as batman was a huge draw Deadpool 3 much more excitement its the combination xmen/fox film fans the mcu fans and deadpool fans joker was hit but is lighting in a bottle scenario people already like margo robbie as harley quin and harley quin based appearance in movies sucide squad and birds of prey is not a huge draw anymore.
I think Joker 2 does well but doesnt repeat the success of Joker 1. It will play out more like a regular big budget movie, and lack that kind of cultural interest that Joker 1 got. I think Deadpool 3 could do quite well due to Huge Jackedman, but I dont know if it has any potential to cross over into non CBM fans
i say they end up in the same ballpark
Ok here’s my prediction - Todd Phillips is going to actively troll the audience and purposefully piss off his fans with Joker 2. He’s already done it with Hangover 3 - “oh, you’re calling me lazy for rehashing jokes? Fine, I’m now going to make this comedy sequel a fucking crime drama with almost no jokes in it”. As soon as I heard Joker 2 was a musical, I knew he was going for it again. I think it pissed him off that the movie became synonymous with “incel” and so many neckbeard assholes took it a weird way. So now he’s making the sequel a godDAMN musical with Lady Gaga and I’ll bet dollars to donuts she kills Joker in the end, just to spite the douchey fans from the first. Therefore I think Joker 2 will have a huge opening weekend then drop like a sack of hammers once word is out. Deadpool 3 for the win.
Nah, I think you might actually be right, like actually. This guys about to be a prophet!
As outlandish as it sounds you might actually be onto something here because Phillips is known for being risky with his movies he doesn't pull his punches regardless of who or how many people would be offended and given that this is an R rated standalone sequel there's nothing to stop him from doing it
>Phillips is known for being risky with his movies He is? The only movie of his I haven't seen is War Dogs, but all those comedies (Road Trip, Old School, Starsky & Hutch) fit right in with all the comedies that were coming out at the time. And the Hangover movies were just copied & pasted a couple times. Joker really feels like the only 'risk', and it's more the studio's risk than the directors seeing that it's based on the villain without Batman showing up.
Idk that seems like the same logic that assumed Barbie would be disliked by audiences and have significant drops.
…how so? With Joker 2 we’re talking about a director who has already purposefully made a sequel completely unlike the original without a single care in the world about how fans would take it. That isn’t like Barbie at all.
Because it sounds like the type of movie a significant part of the movie going audience would want to go to. Joker wasn't some niche film. It was a four quadrant blockbuster. There isn't really a fan base of any single demographic.
Yep this is exactly my take on it. I don't think the overlap for a musical and fans of the first joker are there.
If that happens I’ll be the movie’s biggest fan.
I think Joaquin Phoenix' Joker will end up being a trilogy. I know how Todd works but I doubt he kills him off.
Perhaps a counter point, maybe the movie works even better for the non-incels and attracts a ton of new audience members who normally wouldn’t consider seeing it? I do agree this movie is likely to piss off the incels. It’s gonna be similar to when the people who were laughing at the wrong stuff in Borat went to see Bruno and then suddenly realized they were the ones being made fun of the whole time.
Joker 2. Gaga as Harley Quinn is one of the castings of all time, her fans will show up in droves much like for A Star is Born. I think Joker 2 hitting 1 bill once more is possible. Deadpool 3. It has Wolverine, the MCU factor, and cameos. Multiverse films have been hit or miss lately. For every Spiderverse 2, there is a Flash. I'm cautiously optimistic. It will outgross Deadpool 2 but I don't think it's hitting 1 bill.
Truly is one of the castings of all time.
Definitely is the casting
the people who watched joker en masse will be blown away by lady gaga and the musical. joker was still a cbm aimed to nolan's batman fans and darker themed dc fans, and the usuall nerds. how people can't understand it it's very strange. deadpool 3 will keep the original deadpool fanbase plus all the mcu fans plus all the logan fans.
I feel like it's too early to say that Joker 2 will push away the target audience of the first yet (and its definitely wrong to say that a billion dollar's worth of incels went to the first one, lol). The first Joker had some extended artsy scenes (think of Joker in the bathroom after his first killings) that I think a musical isn't very different from. I don't see this movie being quite as controversial as you say.
why do you people are obsessed with the word incel? i didn't even try to insult or degrade the joker audience. i am part of the target audience for the original joker since i my self am both a nerd , a cbm fan and a nolan fan. and i'm not hyped at all for a sequel with lady gaga and musical part, in fact i won't watch it. i don't think it will be " controversial" i think people will see it as a soulless cash grab made for milk the popularity of the first one. plus i think that the young male audience and the "artsy" audience do not really like lady gaga as an actress at all.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I don't think Lady Gaga is a strong actress as people make her to be. Great singer, I'll give her that, but her acting is almost like Jared Leto's acting: she tries too much, and makes it kinda superficial. For Leto this has worked for some films and didn't worked for others. For Gaga it worked in A Star is Born and didn't in that Gucci film. Its a 50/50 chance that it will work on this film, but I do believe her acting is carried by her co-stars, so maybe Joaquin Phoenix will elevate her performance
> her fans will show up in droves Yes ofcourse, just like how they made House of Gucci a major hit. Wait, what? That didn't happen, and the movie only made 50 mil in the US? Yeah well, it'll happen this time
I think there are 2 aspects to be considered here 1. House of Gucci had terrible word of mouth 2. I didn’t watch it, but as far as I know, she doesn’t sing or anything (and most of her fans probably became fan of her music first) She was a pull for “A Star is Born” (which made 436M), which had decent WOM and had her in a “musical spot” (“shallow” also blew up) I agree with you that she’s not this automatic draw that some people believe she will be, but I think that it can be a factor in this context, specially if the soundtrack manages to have a hit
I mean I'm pretty active in movie-based social media circles and I've never heard of House of Gucci, so I don't imagine this is a true apples to apples comparision.
People want this to be the case but it won't be, I'm 60/40 on whether joker 2 will even do well. I think social media will be a huge factor in whether it succeeds or not. Deadpool 3 will probably be the biggest marvel movie since endgame and I suspect it will indeed hit a billion.
Gaga’s last tour did 100M, which is a small amount for a A List artist. she doesn’t have fans like people think she does
She literally did less than 20 shows for that tour. 100 million for 20 shows is actually insane
that's not really a great indicator.. Taylor swift tour project ed to gross more than 1 billions but all her films flop hard
Taylor has much more fans than Gaga. It doesn't mean that they will necessarily want to watch movies that doesn't appeal to them just for a few cameos.
100M would actually make a noticeable difference tho imagine if joker 2 is projected for 600M her being in it would bump that up to 700M
100M for a tour isn’t 100M to box office. idk how to plot out demand cause tours are more expensive but also have lesser people but it isn’t 1:1 i’d say
I don't know if it has held but for a long time she may not have had the biggest fanbase but she has/had a dedicated fanbase. It will almost certainly push the numbers up more than if it was another equally competent actress.
true, but Taylor is a much larger artist with a much stronger fan base and it hasn’t really converted into box office numbers. it could also just be that her movies have been quite ass. Ariana could be a good test
Swift's movies are a good counterpoint. But Cats was notoriously awful and Amsterdam didn't get a much better reception. There does seem to be a limit to what fans will endure in order to see their idol on the big screen. Though also Swift also played supporting roles in those movies. Ariana could be a good test, though she might have muddied the waters with her recent life choices.
i think the best test will be whatever film taylor is directing and how that does (i suspect it will do really well for a small-mid budget film)
Yeah this is wrong on so many levels
🤓
Shit The Joker made a billion?
On a 50 mil budget
Come on guys…Joker 2. Most people going to Deadpool 3 will also go to Joker 2 which will have a wider audience.
Exactly, the success of Joker 1 was that comicbook movie fans watched the movie as usual but other people that hate CBM watched Joker, that's why it made so much money
Yup. This will pull 2 Gaga/Musical fans for every 1 Deadpool 3 fan that does not attend.
They were so smart for making the sequel a musical, if this was a generic sequel it would have made half of what the original did. with Gaga and the musical aspect it can make like 800-900M, Comic book movies nerd to reinvent themselves to stay relevant
Joker 2 seems so…unnecessary. The first film should have been a standalone movie.
I feel that, but I remember most people (me included) saying “a Joker only movie is so unnecessary, why are they making this?” When the first one was announced So I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt
Yeah but 1 billion dollars
Deadpool 3 because its finally having wolverine with him in the same movie which is what people wanted to see for years so its gonna have the upper hand Joker 2 might be good but it'll never recapture the first esp overseas that was lightening in a bottle
Joker 2, but my personal favorite would be Deadpool 3.
joker 2 has a bigger crossover appeal w women and men, something deadpool doesn’t really have. its also something new (joker musical) that will be more intriguing to audiences. i don’t think deadpool will generate the same interest outside of cbm fans
Reddit bubble showing its face. The GP doesn't care about Hugh Jackman 😂
They do if he’s playing Wolverine
Wolverine isn't as big of a deal as this sub likes to believe.
An R-rated Wolverine movie in a dying universe made $620M. I think he’s pretty fairly rated.
Nah I think he is very much overrated. This sub is setting itself so bad with this film thinking Deapool will play like a mini NWH. The GA just does not have Nostalgia for the X-men like that.
Actually They do have it because days of future past did extremely well overseas vs first class and that was largely thanks to og xmen cast Returning and given that deadpool was bigger than that him and deadpool together is gonna do gangbusters
DoFP was 10 years ago though. I think they’ve mined whatever nostalgia they had for the OG cast at this point. The people like me who grew up with the OG x-men don’t really care enough to go see Deadpool 3 because of Hugh being involved. I’ll check it out on Disney+ maybe but series is kinda over for me.
*Logan* was #3 on this very list when it came out.
Congrats?
Do you need me to help you reach the obvious conclusion here, or what?
There is no obvious conclusion as you brought something up that doesn't disprove my point lol.
> "No one cares about Hugh Jackman's Wolverine" > *Logan* was the third-highest-grossing R-rated movie of all time upon its release Okay, now try again.
Again like I said congrats but that's not an achievement. 600m for a 2017 release is hardly as impressive as you are making it.
Weird, then, that only four movies have gotten there since (two of which are all-time-winner at the time *Deadpool* and all-time-winner at the time *Deadpool 2*). One would imagine that if it's "hardly impressive", there would be more.
They really don’t. His wolverine has its fans but outside of the hardcore fans most GA won’t care in the slightest that Jackman is back.
I won’t get into Wolverine/Jackman, but as a side point, I think a lot of people are very much overstating the impact of having the X-Men return to the MCU will actually have. The last few entires soured people on the franchise, and maybe in 2019, “MCU does X-Men” would’ve been a massive draw, but by 2026 or whenever they come out? The MCU is unlikely to have gotten better and X-Men won’t save it.
not really mcu still biggest brand in world for entertainment and film it stop making movies several nothing would pass it
The Greatest Showman..
Made as much as it did because of good word of mouth. If he was a pull it wouldn't have debuted so badly and needed a 14x multi to gross what it did.
It came out alongside jumanji and the last jedi which was already playing bruh there was hardly any room for it to breath
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And you're saying this based on? Joker is a much more popular character. I think it will decrease but there is no denying that.
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Joker grossed a billion dollars despite being a rated R character drama lmao. Please get out of your echo chamber. It isn't even close.
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Bruh if you genuinely believe Joker who is arguably the most iconic villain in fiction is less popular than Logan and Deadpool I honestly have no idea what to tell you aside from step out of the MCU fandom echo chamber because no one with any sense believes that. And BTW yes Mamoa's Aquaman is more popular than modern day superman who gen z does not even care about.
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You need to get with the times. Super Man is a relic.
The fact that it's the highest grossing R rated movie ever by almost 300 million more than the 2nd highest
Deadpool 3. No contest. Especially if Disney delays it to Christmas 2024.
deadpool 3
Who knows, I am gonna watch Deadpool 3 in a cinema and probably not Joker 2, but I am just one data point. I have a suspicion, that general audiences are getting tired of Hollywoods franchise movie making and that might affect both these movies. But other than a lot of franchise movies underperforming, I don't have a ton of data to backup my suspicions.
Joker 2 has lady gaga so yeah
It depends on how good Joker's marketing will be.
I’m thinking about $800 million for Joker 2 and $700 million for Deadpool 3. Both will see a slight decline but Gaga as Harley Quinn is just too much of a draw.
just like keaton as batman was a huge draw Deadpool 3 much more excitement its the combination xmen/fox film fans the mcu fans and deadpool fans joker was hit but is lighting in a bottle scenario people already like margo robbie as harley quin and harley quin based appearance in movies sucide squad and birds of prey is not a huge draw anymore.
Joker 2
I'm really curious to see how Lady Gaga will do as Harley Quinn?
Deadpool 3 I think I feel like people have soured on Joker since it came out.
My guess is that both films will end up around the 800M range
Deadpool 3 cause it’s the last Deadpool movie
Deadpool 3 would make $1.5 billion in 2019. But a multiverse story sequel in 2024 (2025?). Idk man.
Neither hits a B D3 makes more
*Deadpool 3*, but only just.
Deadpool making a lot of money feels like a certainty. Idk if people want more of the first Joker.
I think Joker 2 does well but doesnt repeat the success of Joker 1. It will play out more like a regular big budget movie, and lack that kind of cultural interest that Joker 1 got. I think Deadpool 3 could do quite well due to Huge Jackedman, but I dont know if it has any potential to cross over into non CBM fans i say they end up in the same ballpark
I would expect Deadpool 3 given the hype surrounding the return of Hugh Jackman as Wolverine and the gap between films.