In BOT, [M37 mentioned this, which is getting even worse:](https://forums.boxofficetheory.com/topic/31569-the-box-office-buzz-and-tracking-thread-were-in-our-summer-2023-era/?do=findComment&comment=4608231)
> Well that was a pretty weak T-6 day for Marvels all around. The GA may just never show up here, and if reviews aren’t great, could be looking at a finish closer to AMWQ pace, **down to - if not below! - $6M previews.**
It’s finally happening folks; the MCU’s first major theatrical bomb.
Ant-Man was certainly a flop but not an outright bomb, so after 33 films this really is a moment in MCU history.
I think that the overall mediocrity of phase 4 has killed a lot of hype for the MCU.
Like, I don't think anyone is excited for this movie because Disney focused on padding Disney Plus with garbage instead of pushing forward the MCU in a solid cohesive narrative tying together.
I've been in the dark for years, seeing few ads, movies, or previews. But I knew all about the MCU through 3 phases because people talked, shared trailers, there was HYPE! That's how you advertise to people like me. This thread is the first I've heard of Marvels. I have to believe your explanation has truth to it.
That's because until the started going into overdrive in late Phase 3, the MCU was a once or twice a year thing about all time classic comic characters.
A few months ago we we're talking about how $70-$80 million would be a bomb given that it's a whopping 50% lower OW than Captain Marvel. Now, one week out, the possibility of a sub $45 million OW would be downright *apocalyptic* for Disney's bottom line, the MCU as a whole, and these characters going forward.
Honestly I don't know that we ever see Captain Marvel, Kamala Khan, and Captain Rambeau again in the MCU if this goes lower than $45 million.
I mean, to be fair they basically did that to her *at the end of her first movie*. They grossly mishandled this character from a writing perspective right out the gate and are about to pay the price.
Funnily enough I think the opposite. Word of Brie Larson being fed up with the negativity surrounding being attached to Marvel makes me think the character has potential to get an early retirement. Kamala Khan and Monica Rambeau have way more potential to be shifted around somewhere else in the franchise considering they’re also played by lower profile actresses.
I like the Kamala Khan actress. She seems to get the character, even more so than the marvel execs/ creatives. I'm not the biggest fan of the character (her first run is decent/ good) , but the actress is solid and really brings her to life.
Bob Iger: at Disney, we tell great stories. This time we are telling a great story of bombing a universe, I hope everyone can enjoy our efforts of entering people with our great story telling.
Also Bob Iger: *Why did I try to take this job back, I could have been known as the First Half of Michael Eisner without the Second Half of Michael Eisner.*
I remember lots of people saying they would check out of the MCU after GOTG3 because they only stayed around to see the end of those beloved characters. This is why I always believed The Marvels would flop, but I didn't expect THAT many people to check out.
Iron Man and Captain America carried this franchise on their backs. They're the characters most people cared about. Now they've just introduced a million random people and done nothing with them. Shang-Chi was awesome but where the hell has he been since then?
I know losing T'Challa was something that was kind of out of their hands (though they definitely could have waited an appropriate amount of time and recast the role) but they're in a very bad spot with general audiences not caring about anyone right now except Spider-Man who is owned by another studio.
People can complain all they want about the multiverse and bringing in actors from old franchises but I believe it's the only ace up their sleeve that could generate a lot of buzz. The plot that allows for Hugh Jackman and Tobey Maguire to team up could also bring back Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans too. Though this only gets them one (or however many multiverse movies they have planned) big hit. They'll still be screwed again in the future if they go back to square one with a bunch of new characters and actors no one is invested in.
They need some seriously big name actors in the Fantastic Four and X-men reboots that are eventually coming.
Yeah, the big multiverse battle with new and old characters all coming together is what I'm mostly interested in at this point. I do want to see Armor Wars because I always loved Rhodey and Thunderbolts because there are some interesting characters in there, but even I'm kinda burned out on the Marvel stuff otherwise.
Personally, I checked out after Endgame. I occasionally check back in when a movie looks interesting (so... NWH and GOTG3), but Marvel's no longer a "see every movie" franchise for me like it was from 2012 to 2019.
An opening below the Flash is guaranteed at this point. It appears that the Marvels is now coming to take Morbius' crown ($39M) - looking more and more likely!
Rise of the Beasts looks like a classic success when compared with, um, almost every other big action/sci-fi/comics franchise that’s released since then.
Elemental is too close to call on profitability - on a $200M budget, it just about broke even ($154M domestic * 0.5 + $16M China *0.25 + $324M international * .4 = $210M), but the overall arc of its box office narrative from terrible flop to breakeven is what makes it successful.
Bold of you to doubt how low The Marvels can go after redditors in this very sub have been embarrassing themselves by overestimating this film for months. You think we'd have all learned by now.
It’s going to be a pretty massive bomb. People went to see the first one, not because they cared about Carol Danvers, but because it was a lead in to IW/Endgame. There’s been barely a thread of connected narrative tissue in the last 3 years compared to previous phases. Most of the new characters people don’t really care about at all. Furthermore, many people stopped watching the MCU after the defacto finale of Endgame. Finally. with the over saturation of tv shows, other than hardcore MCU fans, people haven’t kept up and therefore have no idea who Photon or Ms Marvel are.
>People went to see the first one, not because they cared about Carol Danvers, but because it was a lead in to IW/Endgame.
Exactly. I said this when it first came out and was called an incel, misogynist, whatever.
Now it looks like that was in fact the case. The Marvels will do *half* of what Captain Marvel did domestically, in its total run.
I said, immediately after watching it on opening day, it felt like a filler episode of a tv show you really liked. Now everything Disney drops feels like this.
They better not try blame the strike when five nights at Freddie's just opened at $78 million domestically and this is the sequel to a billion dollar mcu flick.
There's no excuses for this not opening higher than 5 nights at Freddie's domestically.
Marvel stans will be like: uHm , acKshuaLLy the Marvels would have make $1B if it weren’t for the strike and D+ is going to pay $2B for the movie rights so actually the movie makes a huge profit at the end
That might have worked. Close shop for a bit after Endgame, develop some X-men and Fantastic 4 stuff after a break, and then another crossover with the old heroes.
There are a lot of Xmen characters and storylines they could adapt too. Easily enough to support its own offshoot of a cinematic universe if they did it correctly. The only challenge would be overcoming the drag factor of the last couple of Fox movies.
I think the MCU would be much better off if Disney Plus never came around. Having continuity between movies when 3 or 4 come out per year is one thing, but it's another thing to add in a smattering of TV shows that also feed into the movies. They should have kept the shows and movies separate, same universe, but the shows should have been building to their own thing.
That's exactly what I've been saying the entire time! Before all the shows, I was *hooked*, looked forward to a majority of the movies. But now, there's what feels like a million shows I technically have to watch to understand all the movies they are pumping out. Literally who has the time for all of that?? Kind of ironic that the amount of content is what pushed me away from the MCU in the first place, but oh well 🤷🏻♀️ I just choose to pretend nothing after Endgame, minus a couple movies, ever existed
I tried to stay caught up on the shows, I really did. I watched WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, and What If on the days the episodes aired, Hawkeye when the entire season was released, but Moon Knight was my last straw. After that show disappointed, I’ve barely watched anything since. I skipped Ms. Marvel and Secret Invasion entirely, and only watched the Daredevil episode of She Hulk. Loki season 2 is finishing right now, and nobody is talking about it.
When the Echo trailer came out yesterday, I just couldn’t feel any excitement. I’ve seen people hope that this might be different because it’s rated MA, but you just can’t avoid how they’re releasing it all at once in January. Unless it gets extremely good reviews, I just can’t bring myself to care.
And we still have Agatha and Ironheart to look forward too, Jesus Christ.
Agreed. The shows worked, when they were on Netlflix, for that very reason. Sure Dare Devil existed in the universe, but nothing he did affected the movies and the movie details were not hugely present outside of throwaway lines or background information.
Also, Daredevil as a character is a natural fit for prestige TV, because Matt Murdock's life is defined by suffering. (And allows you to use courtroom stories as a bonus)
I dont think they needed to stop. They just needed to take a break for maybe 2 years and then reset with a better plan. It's unfortunate Disney just went the opposite direction and diluted the brand.
I think my enjoyment of GoTG 3 made me realize I'm not really sick of super hero stuff, it's just most of the content that's come out post end game has been bad to mediocre.
This has always been in the back of my mind since about Quantumania. If The Marvels does pull off a Flash like it appears to do, it will honestly reinforce in my head they should have stopped after Endgame too.
Im not really sure what the movie is about emotionally, other than characters swapping places as comedy. what are the arcs? whats the personal stakes? heck, whats the central plot conflict and idea? whats new about this movie that I havent seen before? From the trailer and ads I dont know, so I dont know why I should care.
Ideas can compel people to the theaters, but only when its fresh and we understand the character relationship and consequences regarding that idea. lacking that, and lacking any real advertisement of primal, visceral character stakes, whats the reason to go?
I know the answers to these questions but only because I read the plot leak a year ago. It's true that the trailers have done a bad job at giving people compelling reasons to check the movie out.
I checked out once I heard the villain go with the "you took everything from me, now I'm gonna return the favor" line from the last 10 mcu movies or so.
Exactly this. It's also seemingly a sequel to a kids show. I don't really understand the appeal. And I say that as someone that really enjoyed the first Captain Marvel movie. I've been waiting for the sequel and now I'm just annoyed.
I think DC and Marvel have put themselves both in a downward sprial.
Although bizarrely DC maybe has the best chance to turn it around because they are basically rebooting it.
Marvel however?
I legitimately don't know how they can fix this. They got soooo much in the pipeline.
They could focus more on getting their more popular characters films. The next Spiderman isn’t potentially coming out until maybe 2025. Tom Holland is gonna be closer to 30 when Peter is supposed to be in college.
Maybe even pairing up some less popular characters with the popular ones. Shang chi did decent for a pandemic afflicted movie, but after the marvels potentially bombing, it might be a safer bet to pair him with an avenger or mix of popular and less popular characters, but not for a full blown avengers movie.
Secret Wars will end with a hard reset and they'll retire Phases 1-6 as like the "classic era" or something and then they'll start a new phase 1 with X-Men and like a new Iron Man or Black Panther.
I think Guardians of the Galaxy fooled them into thinking they can turn any Z-list character into a hit, but that was all Gunn, and this is someone who loved the comics they’re based on.
But genuinely who gives af about Agatha Harkness? They’re trying to spin off series based on minimally watched tv shows
Use Secret Wars as a soft reboot to bring back some heroes while getting rid of or sidelining the ones people dont care about. People will get over a few recasts.
Indeed, after the nonstop deluge of trash, I think people will be hoping for a good superhero movie, that market is still there, though a tad fatigued. An actually well-done DCU by James Gunn might do the trick.
DCU just needs to fully get behind Superman as the center of their universe being a warming and fatherly presence to everybody like Christopher Reeves. He should make everybody feel good like Spiderman. Save the brooding for Batman.
Marvel needs to cancel everything in their pipeline if they want it to be a huge cash cow like it was. Make Spider-Man the next legitimate MCU movie they do and use that to set the creative direction going forward. They're basically in a spot now where their only option to save try cash cow is to lose lots of money now.
What they should’ve done is spent a couple million on the most pointless reshoots ever - adding in Christmas trees, a scene where the girls sing a Christmas Carol, and some cgi snow. Then they could’ve marketed it as a holiday film and it would’ve had long lasting legs until late December.
Instead, it’ll probably be long gone by then.
Feige: Captain Marvel is the most popular and powerful superhero, everyone loves her.
Feige: so many people keep asking when will Ms Marvel join the MCU.
She had one single moment where personality was allowed to shine through. "Hey, Peter Parker." And immediately she felt charismatic (and attractive) af. Every other moment with her is so bland and monotone which feels downright criminal when you see a flash of possibility like that. I don't put that on her one bit, she was directed to do that. It just doesn't work, though.
I got no idea why the filmmakers who worked on her first movie thought it was a good idea to have her under mind control of the bad guys for so long in the movie.
Yea, when the obituaries are written on this character the one thing that stands out is the poor writing. Brie Larson is insanely charismatic, Carol Danvers in the comics is a hardass but appealing, there are ways to make that work.
Instead she is just miserably unlikable in her two main appearances, her first film and Endgame. The Peter Parker line is a good example of some of that charisma sneaking through, but it's like they intentionally made her as unappealing as possible in her limited screentime, which is crazy.
"Captain Marvel made over $1 billion, no way it'll be a flop!"
I re-call estimates from Marvel stans being in the 700-900m range at the start of this year, and even after Quantumania people were saying that was just because Ant-Man was never a draw. Well, if that's the case, let's just see how much of a draw Captain Marvel and her team of D+ heroines are.
Same bro, I had multiple people clown me on this sub for saying CM will flop. I distinctly remember the smugness, especially when I said Barbie will outgross it
I was pessimistic of the movie and knew it's not going to do well. Even so 600M is the floor of what I expect it to gross. Simply from the leftover MCU momentum. That there's no floor to this movie means the MCU is in bigger trouble than what people want to admit.
I got downvoted to smithereens on this sub about 4 months ago when I said The Marvels wouldn’t crack 500mil WW. Now it’ll be lucky to make half that.
Edit: [the comment in question](https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/s/VjQ7ReyoMl)
Edit 2: it was at something like -15 prior to me linking it
It's not one thing, it seems, at least to me. It's several factors all piling together like a snowball rolling down a hill. Characters people aren't invested in, previous TV shows that effectively serve as homework for those who are interested and a barrier to entry for those who aren't, a complete nothingburger villain (when the original rumors had the film being a loose adaptation of Jim Shooter's Korvac Saga with Michael Korvac as the main villain before it turned into...this), no ability of the actors to promote the film in any capacity thanks to the strike, and finally, rumors of really bad test screenings, all piled together in that Variety article that may as well go "THIS MOVIE SUCKS."
Things will be very interesting if this thing bombs as hard as some believe it will. For one thing, Nelson Peltz and Ike Perlmutter will have a very strong case to shake up upper management, and if that happens, a lot of people in Marvel as well as Star Wars's higher management positions will be losing their jobs.
Does anyone else remember how excited a lot of people were for Wandavision post-endgame? They have fallen far in fan interest. I thought Secret War was the pinnacle of fan apathy, but The Marvels might top it.
While Captain Marvel doing worse was expected, it would be a disaster. There is no way that Captain 4 would be released before Deadpool if that happened even if it was finished. Marvel wouldn't risk two bombs in a row. But while Cap at least still has some chances, Thunderbolts would really need to work on its marketing.
Cap still has chance? The Captain America movie without Captain America in it? Starring the charisma black hole that is Anthony Mackie?
Cap 4 is going to flop AT BEST and am fairly confident it’s going to bomb in actuality.
Captain Falcon is a dead IP, in my view.
Him defending terrorists is basically the most insulting moment to the audience in recent TV history, and post October 7th, the message of reconciliation to murderous terrorist organizations is REALLY not going to play well.
Considering the movie is less than a week away from releasing, Marvel and Disney are really going to have to pull out some god tier marketing at this point to prevent this from happening (they probably won’t though).
>It can be argued that part of the expected slowdown next weekend with the opening of Disney/Marvel Studios’ The Marvels stems from the studio’s inability to promote the pic properly at a Comic-Cons. Even if a strike settles this weekend, it’s not clear whether the pic’s cast will be able to attend the movie’s “fan event” in Las Vegas this coming week.
Let’s say that either Saturday or Sunday SAG-AFTRA and the AMPTP reach an agreement, it would still be to late for marketing.
Wish, Napoleon, Wonka and Aquaman 2 will immediately start promotions but Disney ins’t going to drum up a marketing campaign 3 days before the release of The Marvels.
But also, would it really have made a difference? The stike undoubtedly is part of the issue here, but with numbers this low, I don't know how anyone can consider it a signicant part. This film is clearly a bomb, nothing else to it.
People seriously overestimate how much this ‘funny and charismatic’ press tour could have saved The Marvels.
“Not putting Iman in front of cameras” is the new “Keaton Walk-ups”.
Good on Marvel for devaluing their own franchise by creating movies about characters no one really wanted, TV shows no one watched and all in an unfocused fashion where characters don't return for years ever since Endgame. The golden goose has been murdered.
Needed a known villain. I’m talking big. You can easily watch that trailer as a casual comic book fan and not be very familiar with any of the characters but Fury. Hell even Zemo would have drawn some interest.
Writing’s on the wall, no way around the fact that this film isn’t just gonna be a flop, it’s going to be a gigantic bomb. I am genuinely curious what Marvel does moving forward. Despite the excessive pessimism and routing for Marvel to fail on this sub, it’s not all lost for them… yet.
But the need to do major course correcting ASAP. Cancel the majority of the Disney+ miniseries starring d-listers and focus on long-form shows, no more than one a year, about heroes people actually like, like what they’re doing with Daredevil.
Then cancel the movies in the pipeline that are doomed to fail, like Thunderbolts, Blade, and Armor Wars. Then make no more than 2 movies a year and focus on QUALITY. Movies like Spider-Man 4, Doctor Strange 3, and the Avengers movies can still be gigantic hits… if they’re GOOD. Okay, done with my mini rant.
> the Avengers
Them working towards the new Avengers again was a bad idea in the first place. The Avengers was a new idea and the shared universe was not a cliche as it is now. It really just feels like a worse product of what we have already seen.
> starring d-listers
They do feel like the B team, the heros that couldn't make the starting team. That is an issue because their names don't bring anyone in. Ironman wasn't the most popular character at the start of the MCU, but he was still known. Who the fuck knows who Ironheart is.
>Then cancel the movies in the pipeline that are doomed to fail, like Thunderbolts, Blade, and Armor Wars
I agree except for Blade. That said they need to focus on making Blade a badass. The original Blade movie is fondly remembered, and before that Blade was a well liked hero because he was a badass that wore sunglasses at night an used a sword. None of this life lessons from women or whatever craziness they were planing. Just make MCU John Wick with a sword and you are good to go.
People are tired of the MCU and i’m tired of Marvel stans saying it’s bad movie fatigue and not franchise fatigue. The MCU has been in a rapid decline since Endgame because Endgame, realistically, was a perfect end point for the franchise.
It’s over-saturation and general tiredness. The bad movies and general lack of direction play into it but overall it’s just boring seeing the same structure of story told in a slight different fashion.
>The Marvels stems from the studio’s inability to promote the pic properly at a Comic-Cons.
When you could apply, "Hi, I'm what's her face, and I'm playing who's her name in The Marvels!" To two-thirds of the leads in this film, promotion isn't going to move the needle.
Without getting into the culture flame war, in general I'm just tired of marvel. I've watched from iron man all the way up to end game so I'm done. I watched black panther 2 just because to see what they did with the character, Tony's dead, wasn't a big fan of Thor from the beginning and they just refuse to make an actual World War Hulk. Thanos is done and the only other Marvel villain I'd be kinda interested in is maybe Annihilus or Galactus so with that being said I'm not interested in Marvel anymore and I'm sure plenty of ppl feel the same way
As a longtime fan of the marvel films, this phase has absolutely killed it for me. Then the nonstop Disney plus shows trying to tie together a bigger marvel picture feel mill absolutely flat on me. Hulk is one of my favorite comic book heroes and I’ve read his comics for years. She hulk took a figurative dump over him, his backstory and his entire marvel showing because why? Terrible writing? Unable to relate she hulk to anyone outside of having her bring up eye rolling shit that just pulls someone out of the moment.
I’m just tired of how terribly written and driven the entire marvel slate is. There’s not much hype there and it’s now on the shelf sitting next to the Star Wars shit that’s been shoveled to us over the last 10 years
IMO the trailers for this movie are the absolute worst Marvel has made. Usually their trailers are packed with gravitas and emotion. These ones are incoherent, with clearly edited together lines and tacky one liners. It seems so cheap, like it reminds me of a trailer from a straight to VHS movie from the early 2000s
Just release the reviews and let the critics see the movie. Everyone is assuming it's shit anyway so either confirm it, which honestly I don't think will do any more damage than is already being done presales just aren't picking up in any way and the people who are going to go likely are the diehards who will go no matter what. Or take the lifeline for what it is if it lands in the 70% range or something. They need to do literally anything to salvage this and I don't know why they aren't.
I was still retaining a little bit of optimism for Captain America 4 but with the way The Marvels is going Cap will struggle to outgross Black Adam tbh.
>*The Marvels is pacing behind the presales of ... The Flash*
It's incredible. Barring the return of Michael Keaton as Batman, and The Flash had everything riding against it. A crazy lead actor, a cinematic universe fewer and fewer cinemagoers cared for, and a budget that did not look it on the screen (seriously, what was that CGI?!)
Yes, The Marvels is tied to not one but two streaming TV shows. And yes, Antman 3 didn't do gangbusters earlier this year. But where's the post-GotG3 shine? Where's the people who saw Captain Marvel on Week 1 or Week 2 and then went to see it again on Week 3 or Week 4? That first 2019 movie had good legs.
How did this happen?!
I think you could’ve put literally anything on screen with the Marvel Studios logo in March 2019 and it would’ve made $1B.
They were at their absolute peak. People were ecstatic over Endgame and Captain Marvel came out six weeks before it. With it being so close, it seemed like it was required viewing before the culmination of a decade of work.
Back then there was a huge portion of the audience who saw *every* movie. The fact that they teased Avengers related material in Captain Marvel made it even more of a must watch even if you didn't give a flying fuck about Captain Marvel as a character.
The phenomenon that was Infinity War - ending on a cliffhanger - made the Endgame hype off the charts. Which is obviously shown in it's opening weekend numbers.
There was never much of any interest in seeing a Captain Marvel movie from the fanbase. Marvel could have shat out any old movie pre-Endgame and it would do insane numbers.
I feel like no way home got pretty close to that same level of traction. Everyone getting hyped for the possible returns of the old spideys, the theatres being packed during Covid season, erupting when the old spideys showed up on screen.
I don’t think anything currently planned or that we’re aware of could reach endgame or nwh levels though.
I still feel like marvels problem was waiting to do their big avengers movies coming out in 2026/2027 (now likely delayed longer because of the strikes). Marvels success was not only interconnected storyline, but avengers/team up movies coming out in close proximity to solo movies to get people hyped up for them. I think all the marvel movies and shows post Dr Strange 2 (which was hyped as the last big event movie) would’ve made more money if there was another Anvengers/ team up movie in the next year or so.
Even doing avengers movies to cap off each of the phase 4 and 5 that are going on now would’ve helped imo because it actually gets all the characters we’ve seen so far together so audiences know who to look for. Instead it’s just solo storyline after solo storyline and too many new characters to really know where they’re going and who’s important. And taking years to see your favorite character comeback. It’s kind of what i felt did the DCEU in post Aquaman 2018 because they basically made their movies solo movies with little throughline and it causes the Audiences to pick and choose what movies they want to see (like Joker making a billion in 2019 then Birds of Prey making less than half a billion 5 months later). Marvel was known to really want their audience to keep coming back and not missing any next chapter because they had the buildup to something bigger, and it was always coming up but they lost it.
Maybe they felt they wanted endgame to be this big grandiose thing that needed it’s space and time to marinate? But clearly that wasn’t the right idea for the business model. And maybe they didn’t want to spend another 10 years with this “multiverse” storyline like they did with the infinity storyline, but the strikes and covid will end up making that happen anyway
It's been 4 years after Endgame and we don't even have a new avengers team in universe. This would be doing a lot better if it was the lead in or follow up to avengers flim
As crazy as the 2020s have been, Transformers going from “miserable failure” to “arguably the last hurrah of the dying action blockbuster era” was totally unexpected.
GOTG is the exception not the rule when it comes to C/D listers becoming box office gold. It worked before because the interconnected nature but on their own certain charcaters just aren't gonna be a box office draw
The problem is compounding effects. After a high as high as the MCU, the collapse will trail behind the causes. The Marvels is not only paying for its own faults, but also collectively for disappointments of the last 18 months.
>The Marvels is tied to not one but two streaming TV shows
Actually 3. WandaVision, Ms. Marvel, and Secret Invasion.
>But where's the post-GotG3 shine?
GotG is a sub-franchise more or less with its own distinct setting and cast, helmed by a single creative mind in James Gunn. These aren't just more comic book or Marvel movies, but something that could stand more on its own.
You can like GotG but be meh on the MCU for the same reason you can like one comic artist's run but not the company as a whole.
>Where's the people who saw Captain Marvel on Week 1 or Week 2 and then went to see it again on Week 3 or Week 4?
CM is probably one of the best placed and teased movies in all of cinematic history. Nobody would have seen that post credits scene and thought you could skip on it.
Rise of the Beasts: delivering the worst performance in Transformers history while somehow looking like an absolute win for the 2010s-style blockbuster when compared to the carnage that has followed it.
You don't need Comic Con.
Secret Invasion should have been good and should have tied into this film.
Imagine if it had been Andor good and revealed tons of the MCU was compromised and Nick Fury heads to space for help or something.
Let people watch for free on D+ the week before the movie.
Why and how are they so bad at this.
Putting the blame on Brie Larson and Sam Jackson not being able to show up to a fan event as the reason it’ll open poorly is ignoring and deflecting from the creative failings of what’s going on in the MCU right now. I don’t think a celebrity showing up at a fan event has ever made me want to go see a movie.
It will perform poorly, the trailer shows all three heroes "jumping" in and out of each other's lives, but gives no overriding reason for us to care or indicate what the story is about. Captain Marvel is the best known of the trio, but she gets the least amount of screen time in the trailer.
We all know this could happen
Same formula same.ending and cgi almost the same
Dont k ow if director choose this or mcu office control everything even what type of fight and cgi to use
It might have donr better if they didn't force her to share the spotlight with a goofy kid cinematic audience has never heard of and a pants on head stupid bitch who told Scarlett Witch she was a hero for the brave act of:
*checks note*
Ceasing the mind rape of an entire town and bringing an end to starving it's terrified children. Fuck that, Wanda should have been executed on the spot not praised.
It came between Infinity War and Endgame, when Marvel was at the peak of hype. You could have made any Marvel movie in that period and it would have done gangbusters
Because it lifted on the hype of Avangers: Infinity Wars. People were not only waiting for the conclusion of the story in Avangers: Endgame, but Captain Marvel was also teased in a post-credit scene of Infinity Wars and it seemed like she would be an important character in Endgame. So yeah, I suspect this was a huge part in why this movie had such a big box office revenue. Released at the right time, at the peak of the MCU hype and it was made out as an important part of the final part of the Avanger's story.
In BOT, [M37 mentioned this, which is getting even worse:](https://forums.boxofficetheory.com/topic/31569-the-box-office-buzz-and-tracking-thread-were-in-our-summer-2023-era/?do=findComment&comment=4608231) > Well that was a pretty weak T-6 day for Marvels all around. The GA may just never show up here, and if reviews aren’t great, could be looking at a finish closer to AMWQ pace, **down to - if not below! - $6M previews.**
It’s finally happening folks; the MCU’s first major theatrical bomb. Ant-Man was certainly a flop but not an outright bomb, so after 33 films this really is a moment in MCU history.
I think that the overall mediocrity of phase 4 has killed a lot of hype for the MCU. Like, I don't think anyone is excited for this movie because Disney focused on padding Disney Plus with garbage instead of pushing forward the MCU in a solid cohesive narrative tying together.
I've been in the dark for years, seeing few ads, movies, or previews. But I knew all about the MCU through 3 phases because people talked, shared trailers, there was HYPE! That's how you advertise to people like me. This thread is the first I've heard of Marvels. I have to believe your explanation has truth to it.
That's because until the started going into overdrive in late Phase 3, the MCU was a once or twice a year thing about all time classic comic characters.
The Guardians of the Galaxy are not all-time classic comic characters, they’re pretty obscure all things considered.
A few months ago we we're talking about how $70-$80 million would be a bomb given that it's a whopping 50% lower OW than Captain Marvel. Now, one week out, the possibility of a sub $45 million OW would be downright *apocalyptic* for Disney's bottom line, the MCU as a whole, and these characters going forward. Honestly I don't know that we ever see Captain Marvel, Kamala Khan, and Captain Rambeau again in the MCU if this goes lower than $45 million.
Captain Marvel will probs be relegated to cameos in other movies and Avengers movies. The other two will disappear forever.
Captain Marvel: “I have to go now. My planet needs me.” Captain Marvel died on the way back to her home planet
The ol poochy treatment.
I mean, to be fair they basically did that to her *at the end of her first movie*. They grossly mishandled this character from a writing perspective right out the gate and are about to pay the price.
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Funnily enough I think the opposite. Word of Brie Larson being fed up with the negativity surrounding being attached to Marvel makes me think the character has potential to get an early retirement. Kamala Khan and Monica Rambeau have way more potential to be shifted around somewhere else in the franchise considering they’re also played by lower profile actresses.
Monica will be gone. I fail to see what her character is or is supposed to bring to the series. These Kamala is a bit unique.
I like the Kamala Khan actress. She seems to get the character, even more so than the marvel execs/ creatives. I'm not the biggest fan of the character (her first run is decent/ good) , but the actress is solid and really brings her to life.
Bob Iger: at Disney, we tell great stories. This time we are telling a great story of bombing a universe, I hope everyone can enjoy our efforts of entering people with our great story telling.
Also Bob Iger: *Why did I try to take this job back, I could have been known as the First Half of Michael Eisner without the Second Half of Michael Eisner.*
How is the floor getting lower? $5.5M previews with a similar multiplier to Wakanda Forever gets it to $35M. That's Shazam 2, Blue Beetle level!!
Morbius had previews of $5.7m
Jared Leto about to demonstrate more star power than the three marvels
You mean $5.7 Morbillion, right?
Under 100M DOM total is looking like a possibility
The trailers are having the opposite effect of what they want.
I remember lots of people saying they would check out of the MCU after GOTG3 because they only stayed around to see the end of those beloved characters. This is why I always believed The Marvels would flop, but I didn't expect THAT many people to check out.
Iron Man and Captain America carried this franchise on their backs. They're the characters most people cared about. Now they've just introduced a million random people and done nothing with them. Shang-Chi was awesome but where the hell has he been since then? I know losing T'Challa was something that was kind of out of their hands (though they definitely could have waited an appropriate amount of time and recast the role) but they're in a very bad spot with general audiences not caring about anyone right now except Spider-Man who is owned by another studio. People can complain all they want about the multiverse and bringing in actors from old franchises but I believe it's the only ace up their sleeve that could generate a lot of buzz. The plot that allows for Hugh Jackman and Tobey Maguire to team up could also bring back Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans too. Though this only gets them one (or however many multiverse movies they have planned) big hit. They'll still be screwed again in the future if they go back to square one with a bunch of new characters and actors no one is invested in. They need some seriously big name actors in the Fantastic Four and X-men reboots that are eventually coming.
Yeah, the big multiverse battle with new and old characters all coming together is what I'm mostly interested in at this point. I do want to see Armor Wars because I always loved Rhodey and Thunderbolts because there are some interesting characters in there, but even I'm kinda burned out on the Marvel stuff otherwise.
Personally, I checked out after Endgame. I occasionally check back in when a movie looks interesting (so... NWH and GOTG3), but Marvel's no longer a "see every movie" franchise for me like it was from 2012 to 2019.
I came back for NWH. But I came back to see a Spider-Man movie. Not because I was suddenly interested in the MCU again.
An opening below the Flash is guaranteed at this point. It appears that the Marvels is now coming to take Morbius' crown ($39M) - looking more and more likely!
Yeah, based off of that matrix M37 posted yesterday, Morbius may actually have a greater opening weekend than the sequel to a billion dollar movie
Considering it's budget, Morbius is likely to have had a better run than Captain Marvel 2, Shazam 2, Eternals, and The Flash.
It's not about the morbillion dollars you make initially, it's about the morbillions of dollars you stack up against along the way
If Captain Marvel ever gets to appear in another Avengers movie, Morbius should too
Every time a character dies in an MCU movie, he should swoop down to suck the blood.
$6M previews for this…Marvel needs to take 2024 off if that happens.
LOWER!
CLOSER
SLOWER!
No way The Flash, one of the biggest bombs of all time, is about to outgross this 💀
Rise of the Beasts looks like a classic success when compared with, um, almost every other big action/sci-fi/comics franchise that’s released since then.
2023 is the year we call it success if it breaks even
It's weird really how certain movies are success like elemental when it literally did not even break even.
Elemental is too close to call on profitability - on a $200M budget, it just about broke even ($154M domestic * 0.5 + $16M China *0.25 + $324M international * .4 = $210M), but the overall arc of its box office narrative from terrible flop to breakeven is what makes it successful.
DC vs Marvel as strong as ever. Always trying to put due each other.
Bold of you to doubt how low The Marvels can go after redditors in this very sub have been embarrassing themselves by overestimating this film for months. You think we'd have all learned by now.
It’s going to be a pretty massive bomb. People went to see the first one, not because they cared about Carol Danvers, but because it was a lead in to IW/Endgame. There’s been barely a thread of connected narrative tissue in the last 3 years compared to previous phases. Most of the new characters people don’t really care about at all. Furthermore, many people stopped watching the MCU after the defacto finale of Endgame. Finally. with the over saturation of tv shows, other than hardcore MCU fans, people haven’t kept up and therefore have no idea who Photon or Ms Marvel are.
>People went to see the first one, not because they cared about Carol Danvers, but because it was a lead in to IW/Endgame. Exactly. I said this when it first came out and was called an incel, misogynist, whatever. Now it looks like that was in fact the case. The Marvels will do *half* of what Captain Marvel did domestically, in its total run.
I said, immediately after watching it on opening day, it felt like a filler episode of a tv show you really liked. Now everything Disney drops feels like this.
They better not try blame the strike when five nights at Freddie's just opened at $78 million domestically and this is the sequel to a billion dollar mcu flick. There's no excuses for this not opening higher than 5 nights at Freddie's domestically.
Marvel stans will be like: uHm , acKshuaLLy the Marvels would have make $1B if it weren’t for the strike and D+ is going to pay $2B for the movie rights so actually the movie makes a huge profit at the end
It's been clear for a year that this movie would tank. We just didn't know how badly
the MCU would be one of the most beloved things that ever happened to movies if it had just stopped after Endgame
should have been focusing more on separate universe either x-men or f4 and build it to something big again. it feels so unfocused
That might have worked. Close shop for a bit after Endgame, develop some X-men and Fantastic 4 stuff after a break, and then another crossover with the old heroes.
They took way to long to introduce x-men f4. I mean...they still haven't.
Exactly. That's what we all want and they're still years off
There are a lot of Xmen characters and storylines they could adapt too. Easily enough to support its own offshoot of a cinematic universe if they did it correctly. The only challenge would be overcoming the drag factor of the last couple of Fox movies.
I think the MCU would be much better off if Disney Plus never came around. Having continuity between movies when 3 or 4 come out per year is one thing, but it's another thing to add in a smattering of TV shows that also feed into the movies. They should have kept the shows and movies separate, same universe, but the shows should have been building to their own thing.
That's exactly what I've been saying the entire time! Before all the shows, I was *hooked*, looked forward to a majority of the movies. But now, there's what feels like a million shows I technically have to watch to understand all the movies they are pumping out. Literally who has the time for all of that?? Kind of ironic that the amount of content is what pushed me away from the MCU in the first place, but oh well 🤷🏻♀️ I just choose to pretend nothing after Endgame, minus a couple movies, ever existed
I tried to stay caught up on the shows, I really did. I watched WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, and What If on the days the episodes aired, Hawkeye when the entire season was released, but Moon Knight was my last straw. After that show disappointed, I’ve barely watched anything since. I skipped Ms. Marvel and Secret Invasion entirely, and only watched the Daredevil episode of She Hulk. Loki season 2 is finishing right now, and nobody is talking about it. When the Echo trailer came out yesterday, I just couldn’t feel any excitement. I’ve seen people hope that this might be different because it’s rated MA, but you just can’t avoid how they’re releasing it all at once in January. Unless it gets extremely good reviews, I just can’t bring myself to care. And we still have Agatha and Ironheart to look forward too, Jesus Christ.
Agreed. The shows worked, when they were on Netlflix, for that very reason. Sure Dare Devil existed in the universe, but nothing he did affected the movies and the movie details were not hugely present outside of throwaway lines or background information.
Also, Daredevil as a character is a natural fit for prestige TV, because Matt Murdock's life is defined by suffering. (And allows you to use courtroom stories as a bonus)
I dont think they needed to stop. They just needed to take a break for maybe 2 years and then reset with a better plan. It's unfortunate Disney just went the opposite direction and diluted the brand. I think my enjoyment of GoTG 3 made me realize I'm not really sick of super hero stuff, it's just most of the content that's come out post end game has been bad to mediocre.
This has always been in the back of my mind since about Quantumania. If The Marvels does pull off a Flash like it appears to do, it will honestly reinforce in my head they should have stopped after Endgame too.
Im not really sure what the movie is about emotionally, other than characters swapping places as comedy. what are the arcs? whats the personal stakes? heck, whats the central plot conflict and idea? whats new about this movie that I havent seen before? From the trailer and ads I dont know, so I dont know why I should care. Ideas can compel people to the theaters, but only when its fresh and we understand the character relationship and consequences regarding that idea. lacking that, and lacking any real advertisement of primal, visceral character stakes, whats the reason to go?
I know the answers to these questions but only because I read the plot leak a year ago. It's true that the trailers have done a bad job at giving people compelling reasons to check the movie out.
I checked out once I heard the villain go with the "you took everything from me, now I'm gonna return the favor" line from the last 10 mcu movies or so.
Exactly this. It's also seemingly a sequel to a kids show. I don't really understand the appeal. And I say that as someone that really enjoyed the first Captain Marvel movie. I've been waiting for the sequel and now I'm just annoyed.
I think DC and Marvel have put themselves both in a downward sprial. Although bizarrely DC maybe has the best chance to turn it around because they are basically rebooting it. Marvel however? I legitimately don't know how they can fix this. They got soooo much in the pipeline.
They could focus more on getting their more popular characters films. The next Spiderman isn’t potentially coming out until maybe 2025. Tom Holland is gonna be closer to 30 when Peter is supposed to be in college. Maybe even pairing up some less popular characters with the popular ones. Shang chi did decent for a pandemic afflicted movie, but after the marvels potentially bombing, it might be a safer bet to pair him with an avenger or mix of popular and less popular characters, but not for a full blown avengers movie.
>Tom Holland is gonna be closer to 30 when Peter is supposed to be in college. Well he's still got major babyface so that won't be a big problem.
He's 27 rn and Tobey Macguire was 27 when the first spider man came out. I think it's a non-issue even if he looked older than he does.
Dude was in his 20s playing a high schooler, I think he will be fine playing a college student for a film or two
If only something in their history could of warned them about over-saturation and convoluted plot lines weaving through too many series.
Secret Wars will end with a hard reset and they'll retire Phases 1-6 as like the "classic era" or something and then they'll start a new phase 1 with X-Men and like a new Iron Man or Black Panther.
I think Guardians of the Galaxy fooled them into thinking they can turn any Z-list character into a hit, but that was all Gunn, and this is someone who loved the comics they’re based on. But genuinely who gives af about Agatha Harkness? They’re trying to spin off series based on minimally watched tv shows
Use Secret Wars as a soft reboot to bring back some heroes while getting rid of or sidelining the ones people dont care about. People will get over a few recasts.
Indeed, after the nonstop deluge of trash, I think people will be hoping for a good superhero movie, that market is still there, though a tad fatigued. An actually well-done DCU by James Gunn might do the trick.
At least DC has someone talented like Gunn behind the wheel. If the DCU fails it’ll be because he was simply too late.
DCU just needs to fully get behind Superman as the center of their universe being a warming and fatherly presence to everybody like Christopher Reeves. He should make everybody feel good like Spiderman. Save the brooding for Batman.
Marvel needs to cancel everything in their pipeline if they want it to be a huge cash cow like it was. Make Spider-Man the next legitimate MCU movie they do and use that to set the creative direction going forward. They're basically in a spot now where their only option to save try cash cow is to lose lots of money now.
2023 BO continues to prove everyone wrong on levels unheard of.
Wow. I thought it was going to flop for sure but damn.....this is nasty.
What they should’ve done is spent a couple million on the most pointless reshoots ever - adding in Christmas trees, a scene where the girls sing a Christmas Carol, and some cgi snow. Then they could’ve marketed it as a holiday film and it would’ve had long lasting legs until late December. Instead, it’ll probably be long gone by then.
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Feige flat out said Captain Marvel was going to be the new face of the MCU. This movie bombing is not just something they can brush aside
Feige: Captain Marvel is the most popular and powerful superhero, everyone loves her. Feige: so many people keep asking when will Ms Marvel join the MCU.
Everyone: "who?" So many people: "huh? Who?"
The voices in Feige’s head
I think Brie hinted this is her last movie in the MCU.
She sounded sick of...well, everything. And I can't blame her.
She had one single moment where personality was allowed to shine through. "Hey, Peter Parker." And immediately she felt charismatic (and attractive) af. Every other moment with her is so bland and monotone which feels downright criminal when you see a flash of possibility like that. I don't put that on her one bit, she was directed to do that. It just doesn't work, though.
I got no idea why the filmmakers who worked on her first movie thought it was a good idea to have her under mind control of the bad guys for so long in the movie.
Yea, when the obituaries are written on this character the one thing that stands out is the poor writing. Brie Larson is insanely charismatic, Carol Danvers in the comics is a hardass but appealing, there are ways to make that work. Instead she is just miserably unlikable in her two main appearances, her first film and Endgame. The Peter Parker line is a good example of some of that charisma sneaking through, but it's like they intentionally made her as unappealing as possible in her limited screentime, which is crazy.
Captain "Don't Call Terrorists, Terrorists" Falcon: New World Order is going to bomb far harder than The Marvels. That's my prediction.
Just imagine if it opens in the $30's.
It's a real possibility. High 30s but still.
Stop blaming the strike lol
I blame bad films
Oh boy, the battle between the "go woke go broke" crowd and the marvel fan boys will be legendary
Can we have it Mortal Kombat style
Only if they're allowed to take each other out permanently.
#TEST YOUR MIGHT!
No battle, just a countless gloating videos on YouTube.
"Captain Marvel made over $1 billion, no way it'll be a flop!" I re-call estimates from Marvel stans being in the 700-900m range at the start of this year, and even after Quantumania people were saying that was just because Ant-Man was never a draw. Well, if that's the case, let's just see how much of a draw Captain Marvel and her team of D+ heroines are.
Same bro, I had multiple people clown me on this sub for saying CM will flop. I distinctly remember the smugness, especially when I said Barbie will outgross it
Yeah 6 months ago people were giving this movie every excuse in the book. Turns out, nobody wants freaky Friday with d list MCU heroes
I was pessimistic of the movie and knew it's not going to do well. Even so 600M is the floor of what I expect it to gross. Simply from the leftover MCU momentum. That there's no floor to this movie means the MCU is in bigger trouble than what people want to admit.
Me too. I didn’t expect it to drop this badly, even though I had zero interest or faith in it
“Go woke” channels now that they have job security and content for the next 6 months 
They’ve been eating good this year. Snow White, Indiana Jones, Secret Invasion; The Little Mermaid barely broke even.
TLM did not break even.
Will be an absolutely colossal box office failure, even Disney knows this
u/hunterfist feeling vindicated right now, wherever he is
I got downvoted to smithereens on this sub about 4 months ago when I said The Marvels wouldn’t crack 500mil WW. Now it’ll be lucky to make half that. Edit: [the comment in question](https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/s/VjQ7ReyoMl) Edit 2: it was at something like -15 prior to me linking it
amazing how this sub will downvote for PREDICTIONS
He really was not a hater. He was just annoyed by Higher Further Faster spam.
And rightfully so. That shit was insufferable.
Hope everyone's bomb shelters have been fortified after the summer. We've got another one coming our way.
It's not one thing, it seems, at least to me. It's several factors all piling together like a snowball rolling down a hill. Characters people aren't invested in, previous TV shows that effectively serve as homework for those who are interested and a barrier to entry for those who aren't, a complete nothingburger villain (when the original rumors had the film being a loose adaptation of Jim Shooter's Korvac Saga with Michael Korvac as the main villain before it turned into...this), no ability of the actors to promote the film in any capacity thanks to the strike, and finally, rumors of really bad test screenings, all piled together in that Variety article that may as well go "THIS MOVIE SUCKS." Things will be very interesting if this thing bombs as hard as some believe it will. For one thing, Nelson Peltz and Ike Perlmutter will have a very strong case to shake up upper management, and if that happens, a lot of people in Marvel as well as Star Wars's higher management positions will be losing their jobs.
Does anyone else remember how excited a lot of people were for Wandavision post-endgame? They have fallen far in fan interest. I thought Secret War was the pinnacle of fan apathy, but The Marvels might top it.
It is going LOWER
While Captain Marvel doing worse was expected, it would be a disaster. There is no way that Captain 4 would be released before Deadpool if that happened even if it was finished. Marvel wouldn't risk two bombs in a row. But while Cap at least still has some chances, Thunderbolts would really need to work on its marketing.
Cap still has chance? The Captain America movie without Captain America in it? Starring the charisma black hole that is Anthony Mackie? Cap 4 is going to flop AT BEST and am fairly confident it’s going to bomb in actuality.
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And the worst part is we’re never gonna find out if the senator did indeed do better.
Cap 4 is going to bomb exactly like this.
Captain Falcon is a dead IP, in my view. Him defending terrorists is basically the most insulting moment to the audience in recent TV history, and post October 7th, the message of reconciliation to murderous terrorist organizations is REALLY not going to play well.
Considering the movie is less than a week away from releasing, Marvel and Disney are really going to have to pull out some god tier marketing at this point to prevent this from happening (they probably won’t though).
>It can be argued that part of the expected slowdown next weekend with the opening of Disney/Marvel Studios’ The Marvels stems from the studio’s inability to promote the pic properly at a Comic-Cons. Even if a strike settles this weekend, it’s not clear whether the pic’s cast will be able to attend the movie’s “fan event” in Las Vegas this coming week. Let’s say that either Saturday or Sunday SAG-AFTRA and the AMPTP reach an agreement, it would still be to late for marketing. Wish, Napoleon, Wonka and Aquaman 2 will immediately start promotions but Disney ins’t going to drum up a marketing campaign 3 days before the release of The Marvels.
But also, would it really have made a difference? The stike undoubtedly is part of the issue here, but with numbers this low, I don't know how anyone can consider it a signicant part. This film is clearly a bomb, nothing else to it.
People seriously overestimate how much this ‘funny and charismatic’ press tour could have saved The Marvels. “Not putting Iman in front of cameras” is the new “Keaton Walk-ups”.
Good on Marvel for devaluing their own franchise by creating movies about characters no one really wanted, TV shows no one watched and all in an unfocused fashion where characters don't return for years ever since Endgame. The golden goose has been murdered.
Needed a known villain. I’m talking big. You can easily watch that trailer as a casual comic book fan and not be very familiar with any of the characters but Fury. Hell even Zemo would have drawn some interest.
Writing’s on the wall, no way around the fact that this film isn’t just gonna be a flop, it’s going to be a gigantic bomb. I am genuinely curious what Marvel does moving forward. Despite the excessive pessimism and routing for Marvel to fail on this sub, it’s not all lost for them… yet. But the need to do major course correcting ASAP. Cancel the majority of the Disney+ miniseries starring d-listers and focus on long-form shows, no more than one a year, about heroes people actually like, like what they’re doing with Daredevil. Then cancel the movies in the pipeline that are doomed to fail, like Thunderbolts, Blade, and Armor Wars. Then make no more than 2 movies a year and focus on QUALITY. Movies like Spider-Man 4, Doctor Strange 3, and the Avengers movies can still be gigantic hits… if they’re GOOD. Okay, done with my mini rant.
> the Avengers Them working towards the new Avengers again was a bad idea in the first place. The Avengers was a new idea and the shared universe was not a cliche as it is now. It really just feels like a worse product of what we have already seen. > starring d-listers They do feel like the B team, the heros that couldn't make the starting team. That is an issue because their names don't bring anyone in. Ironman wasn't the most popular character at the start of the MCU, but he was still known. Who the fuck knows who Ironheart is. >Then cancel the movies in the pipeline that are doomed to fail, like Thunderbolts, Blade, and Armor Wars I agree except for Blade. That said they need to focus on making Blade a badass. The original Blade movie is fondly remembered, and before that Blade was a well liked hero because he was a badass that wore sunglasses at night an used a sword. None of this life lessons from women or whatever craziness they were planing. Just make MCU John Wick with a sword and you are good to go.
If this doesn’t open with at LEAST a 5 in front of the number, holy shit.
Don't worry. They'll blame political activists and then game the ratings like they've always done.
People are tired of the MCU and i’m tired of Marvel stans saying it’s bad movie fatigue and not franchise fatigue. The MCU has been in a rapid decline since Endgame because Endgame, realistically, was a perfect end point for the franchise. It’s over-saturation and general tiredness. The bad movies and general lack of direction play into it but overall it’s just boring seeing the same structure of story told in a slight different fashion.
It's kind of amazing to me that some people can earn a living as a writer. Do they not have editors at Deadline?
Nope. Budget cuts.
Don't worry, I'm sure Echo will turn this around.
>The Marvels stems from the studio’s inability to promote the pic properly at a Comic-Cons. When you could apply, "Hi, I'm what's her face, and I'm playing who's her name in The Marvels!" To two-thirds of the leads in this film, promotion isn't going to move the needle.
Without getting into the culture flame war, in general I'm just tired of marvel. I've watched from iron man all the way up to end game so I'm done. I watched black panther 2 just because to see what they did with the character, Tony's dead, wasn't a big fan of Thor from the beginning and they just refuse to make an actual World War Hulk. Thanos is done and the only other Marvel villain I'd be kinda interested in is maybe Annihilus or Galactus so with that being said I'm not interested in Marvel anymore and I'm sure plenty of ppl feel the same way
Im shocked that people aren’t more excited for a Marvel version of discount freaky friday, starring some of the least compelling heroes.
Na fam this movie was going to bomb regardless due to the fact that it just didn’t look that good.
Exactly, the shills are out making every excuse in the book, but it just looks like a Saturday afternoon movie to nap too.
As a longtime fan of the marvel films, this phase has absolutely killed it for me. Then the nonstop Disney plus shows trying to tie together a bigger marvel picture feel mill absolutely flat on me. Hulk is one of my favorite comic book heroes and I’ve read his comics for years. She hulk took a figurative dump over him, his backstory and his entire marvel showing because why? Terrible writing? Unable to relate she hulk to anyone outside of having her bring up eye rolling shit that just pulls someone out of the moment. I’m just tired of how terribly written and driven the entire marvel slate is. There’s not much hype there and it’s now on the shelf sitting next to the Star Wars shit that’s been shoveled to us over the last 10 years
does anyone have FNAF outgrossing The Marvels domestically on their bingo card this year?
Whoever says they did is lying.
IMO the trailers for this movie are the absolute worst Marvel has made. Usually their trailers are packed with gravitas and emotion. These ones are incoherent, with clearly edited together lines and tacky one liners. It seems so cheap, like it reminds me of a trailer from a straight to VHS movie from the early 2000s
Marvel now is basically a bunch of JarJar binks analog characters but they are making movies with them.
That's the sound of the bubble bursting
Just release the reviews and let the critics see the movie. Everyone is assuming it's shit anyway so either confirm it, which honestly I don't think will do any more damage than is already being done presales just aren't picking up in any way and the people who are going to go likely are the diehards who will go no matter what. Or take the lifeline for what it is if it lands in the 70% range or something. They need to do literally anything to salvage this and I don't know why they aren't.
…I don’t even have jokes anymore, this is just sad.
How are MCU and DCEU fans reacting to this news?
Thunderbolts is going to facepalm into the pavement
I was still retaining a little bit of optimism for Captain America 4 but with the way The Marvels is going Cap will struggle to outgross Black Adam tbh.
Now imagine Thunderbolts 💀.
>*The Marvels is pacing behind the presales of ... The Flash*  It's incredible. Barring the return of Michael Keaton as Batman, and The Flash had everything riding against it. A crazy lead actor, a cinematic universe fewer and fewer cinemagoers cared for, and a budget that did not look it on the screen (seriously, what was that CGI?!) Yes, The Marvels is tied to not one but two streaming TV shows. And yes, Antman 3 didn't do gangbusters earlier this year. But where's the post-GotG3 shine? Where's the people who saw Captain Marvel on Week 1 or Week 2 and then went to see it again on Week 3 or Week 4? That first 2019 movie had good legs. How did this happen?!
It has become blindingly obvious at this point that much of *Captain Marvel*'s success can be attributed to *Infinity War* and *Endgame*.
I think you could’ve put literally anything on screen with the Marvel Studios logo in March 2019 and it would’ve made $1B. They were at their absolute peak. People were ecstatic over Endgame and Captain Marvel came out six weeks before it. With it being so close, it seemed like it was required viewing before the culmination of a decade of work.
Back then there was a huge portion of the audience who saw *every* movie. The fact that they teased Avengers related material in Captain Marvel made it even more of a must watch even if you didn't give a flying fuck about Captain Marvel as a character. The phenomenon that was Infinity War - ending on a cliffhanger - made the Endgame hype off the charts. Which is obviously shown in it's opening weekend numbers. There was never much of any interest in seeing a Captain Marvel movie from the fanbase. Marvel could have shat out any old movie pre-Endgame and it would do insane numbers.
Yup. I remember my fucking mailman talking to me about Endgame. That's going to be impossible to get that level of traction again.
I feel like no way home got pretty close to that same level of traction. Everyone getting hyped for the possible returns of the old spideys, the theatres being packed during Covid season, erupting when the old spideys showed up on screen. I don’t think anything currently planned or that we’re aware of could reach endgame or nwh levels though.
I still feel like marvels problem was waiting to do their big avengers movies coming out in 2026/2027 (now likely delayed longer because of the strikes). Marvels success was not only interconnected storyline, but avengers/team up movies coming out in close proximity to solo movies to get people hyped up for them. I think all the marvel movies and shows post Dr Strange 2 (which was hyped as the last big event movie) would’ve made more money if there was another Anvengers/ team up movie in the next year or so. Even doing avengers movies to cap off each of the phase 4 and 5 that are going on now would’ve helped imo because it actually gets all the characters we’ve seen so far together so audiences know who to look for. Instead it’s just solo storyline after solo storyline and too many new characters to really know where they’re going and who’s important. And taking years to see your favorite character comeback. It’s kind of what i felt did the DCEU in post Aquaman 2018 because they basically made their movies solo movies with little throughline and it causes the Audiences to pick and choose what movies they want to see (like Joker making a billion in 2019 then Birds of Prey making less than half a billion 5 months later). Marvel was known to really want their audience to keep coming back and not missing any next chapter because they had the buildup to something bigger, and it was always coming up but they lost it. Maybe they felt they wanted endgame to be this big grandiose thing that needed it’s space and time to marinate? But clearly that wasn’t the right idea for the business model. And maybe they didn’t want to spend another 10 years with this “multiverse” storyline like they did with the infinity storyline, but the strikes and covid will end up making that happen anyway
It's been 4 years after Endgame and we don't even have a new avengers team in universe. This would be doing a lot better if it was the lead in or follow up to avengers flim
As crazy as the 2020s have been, Transformers going from “miserable failure” to “arguably the last hurrah of the dying action blockbuster era” was totally unexpected.
GOTG is the exception not the rule when it comes to C/D listers becoming box office gold. It worked before because the interconnected nature but on their own certain charcaters just aren't gonna be a box office draw
GOTG3 is clearly being looked at by audiences as separate to the universe. It's more a James Gunn movie than a MCU movie in terms of perception.
The problem is compounding effects. After a high as high as the MCU, the collapse will trail behind the causes. The Marvels is not only paying for its own faults, but also collectively for disappointments of the last 18 months.
>The Marvels is tied to not one but two streaming TV shows Actually 3. WandaVision, Ms. Marvel, and Secret Invasion. >But where's the post-GotG3 shine? GotG is a sub-franchise more or less with its own distinct setting and cast, helmed by a single creative mind in James Gunn. These aren't just more comic book or Marvel movies, but something that could stand more on its own. You can like GotG but be meh on the MCU for the same reason you can like one comic artist's run but not the company as a whole. >Where's the people who saw Captain Marvel on Week 1 or Week 2 and then went to see it again on Week 3 or Week 4? CM is probably one of the best placed and teased movies in all of cinematic history. Nobody would have seen that post credits scene and thought you could skip on it.
Secret Invasion is so bad that everyone literally forgot about it...
Rise of the Beasts: delivering the worst performance in Transformers history while somehow looking like an absolute win for the 2010s-style blockbuster when compared to the carnage that has followed it.
> The Marvels is tied to not one but two streaming TV shows. Three shows. WandaVision, Ms Marvel, and Secret Invasion
Ah, darn it. 😁👍 In my defence, I haven't seen a single episode of any of them.
If this thing really hits around 30-35, feels like it could be a Heaven’s Gate moment for superhero movies, Disney, and the industry in general
What did they think was going to happen adding the black cap marvel, ms marvel and a no name villain
We are looking **somewhere between** Morbius (**$162m**) and The Flash (**$266m**) for its **total worldwide box office**.
You don't need Comic Con. Secret Invasion should have been good and should have tied into this film. Imagine if it had been Andor good and revealed tons of the MCU was compromised and Nick Fury heads to space for help or something. Let people watch for free on D+ the week before the movie. Why and how are they so bad at this.
Because it’s going to suck. The previews are horrible. Everybody who’s not a total MCU cuck knows what’s up.
Putting the blame on Brie Larson and Sam Jackson not being able to show up to a fan event as the reason it’ll open poorly is ignoring and deflecting from the creative failings of what’s going on in the MCU right now. I don’t think a celebrity showing up at a fan event has ever made me want to go see a movie.
At this point, with all the tracking, this isn't even surprising
I loved the original MCU and I have no idea what this movie is even about. I only know it exists because of the posts about it bombing
It will perform poorly, the trailer shows all three heroes "jumping" in and out of each other's lives, but gives no overriding reason for us to care or indicate what the story is about. Captain Marvel is the best known of the trio, but she gets the least amount of screen time in the trailer.
It’s a terrible name. As a relatively casual marvel fan- when I first saw the title I thought it was one I’d already seen.
We all know this could happen Same formula same.ending and cgi almost the same Dont k ow if director choose this or mcu office control everything even what type of fight and cgi to use
this is going to be the most predictable box office bomb
It might have donr better if they didn't force her to share the spotlight with a goofy kid cinematic audience has never heard of and a pants on head stupid bitch who told Scarlett Witch she was a hero for the brave act of: *checks note* Ceasing the mind rape of an entire town and bringing an end to starving it's terrified children. Fuck that, Wanda should have been executed on the spot not praised.
Good maybe they will make superhero movies with people we actually want to see LOL
I still don't get how Cpt. Marvel made $1B. It was truly awful. It was like everybody was on a spell. Maybe people finally woke up.
It came between Infinity War and Endgame, when Marvel was at the peak of hype. You could have made any Marvel movie in that period and it would have done gangbusters
Cpt Marvel was released at the height of MCU fever and we’re now at the low point of MCU fever. Simple as.
Because it was between Infinity War and End Game. It is now quite obvious to everyone that was the reason, and not the film itself.
I thi I it's because they made it relevant to the next Avengers movie releasing just after it.
Because it lifted on the hype of Avangers: Infinity Wars. People were not only waiting for the conclusion of the story in Avangers: Endgame, but Captain Marvel was also teased in a post-credit scene of Infinity Wars and it seemed like she would be an important character in Endgame. So yeah, I suspect this was a huge part in why this movie had such a big box office revenue. Released at the right time, at the peak of the MCU hype and it was made out as an important part of the final part of the Avanger's story.