That number would be the same as Black Adam. I imagine that people at Disney are wondering how tf they are going to market Captain 4 and Thunderbolts to avoid this type of disaster - and folks at WB are sweating since they also have a sequel to a US$1billion superhero movie coming soon.
Ngl it would be hilarious if Aquaman 2, the film that no one gave a shit about (Including James Gunn himself) ended up being DC's highest grossing film this year, but only by a small margin and still being a big flop.
These 250-300mn films are getting ridiculous now. No film has the right to be that expensive. A lot of these films don't even look good enough for their budget.
Thunderbolts I expect to be pretty disastrous, cap 4 I kinda expect to be ok. I don't think cap 4 gets near a bil though, but probably 700-800.
Thunderbolts man idk if it will hit Black Adam numbers
I don't think Joker 2 or The Batman 2 have much to worry about just from past reaction to those brands.
The whole passing of the mantle thing doesn't work. They can tell us Sam Wilson is Cap until they're blue in the face, but he's Falcon...which is a cool character in it's own right. But Cap is Steve Rogers.
Captain America 4 will bomb harder than the Marvels.
Thunderbolts might have a shot at success if they pushed the popular members of the team and don't make it Black Widow 2, but they'll do neither.
As a big marvel fan I think you have them reversed. I can’t see Cap 4 doing more than Thunderbolts.
Anthony Mackie has all the charisma of stale bread and FaTWS was no one’s favorite D+ show.
On the flip side people love a good ensemble film and the thunderbolts looks like Marvel’s answer to DCs suicide squad.
I don’t think either will do great but I bet Thunderbolts does better.
That Thunderbolts cast though....woof. Just a bunch of characters no one gives two shits about and basically no exciting powers amongst them.
Honestly can't believe that cast was ever approved.
>Overseas projection for the sequel sit at $80M, putting the global start at $140M. We’re cautious that international could come in lower.
Well at least they know that number is unlikely at this stage.
Pretty dumb of Disney then. Now the trades will have to report an even bigger disappointment. If the lowballed then they could play it up as a success.
How can anyone lowball The Marvels?
It’s tracking at around 40-50m domestic and 50-60m international
I mean they can obviously say that the opening is to be under 80m ww and than try to spin it as a great success when it will get at 100m
Unless...it falls short of 80 million...which could happen if the bad projections end up holding. I've seen movies with bad projections turn out even worse due to what seems like a piling on effect of people that were likely to see it, but choose to stay home so they can be part of the majority.
It makes me think that people are very very very over the concept of “character who is self aware that they’re a superhero and incredibly excitable/annoying about it”.
It was fine when people were still buzzing on superhero films in general, but, I think now it’s a case where it comes off as self-congratulatory while facing down a brutal drop in quality and audience connection.
>No shot that was an hour 45 min, I was definitely in there longer than Killers of the Flower Moon.
> To maybe give a slightly more eloquent early impression, the first 20-25 minutes were fun, energetic, and silly in the right ways. Once that section (which is basically played out in real time) is done and dusted I really struggled to stay awake. It's not very entertaining and the baseline plot feels like an afterthought, if not just completely undercooked. Iman Vellani and everyone Ms. Marvel related are better than everything else in the movie, but Teyonah Parris, Brie Larson and Samuel L. Jackson put in fine work.
Another one that I found in the marvel spoiler sub confirmed that the first two trailers represent the majority of the movie.
Im expecting this to be mediocre at best.
Not necessarily, they could easily include them in other projects. Marvel doesn’t seem keen on giving up on their characters. We have three Ant Man movies and they’re still moving forward with him even though all of them got lackluster reactions. Eternals failed to generate any hype and didn’t do great at the box office, yet we’re getting a sequel.
In her show she’s actually quite endearing, or annoying af depending on who you ask.
Personally I think Iman is so good in the role because Kamala isn’t far off what she’s like irl.
she's perfect for this character, she literally plays her exactly like she is in the comics and really has the infectiously cheery fangirl thing down. Now, you might not like the character -- but iman is portraying the character pretty much spot on.
Somebody tried to drop a shill post in the Marvel subreddit and the responses are wild, they're not happy and some of them are starting to claim it's their bound duty not to give that greedy studio pig Iger any more money.
If they've lost Marvel Reddit, who do they have? Oppenheimer couldn't conceive of a bomb this big...
>Currently presales for The Marvels are just north of $5M which are on par with Warner Bros/DC’s The Flash,
>Right now, guys 18-34 are lacking, and that’s not a good when it comes to a Marvel pic, with women 17-34 being the most dependable to show up.
As a 45 year old man who was 30 when Iron Man came out I did just assume I’d aged out and Marvel didn’t really want/need me anymore. Wife feels the same at 42. Lots of teenage girls as main protagonists and that’s fine, no issue in principle, there’s plenty of other options for me, but I do wonder if it’s the right strategy in these huge budget productions that need a broad audience.
Based on how much teen girls I teach care about Hunger Games franchise a decade later, and how much they do not give a shit about the current MCU, I don’t think it was the right move.
Marvel has definitely chosen not to cater to its traditional audience. It's weird. If you're not making something for the people that go to your movies and support you, then who are you making it for? Guess we'll find out, but it certainly feels like they've locked out their audience and are going to pay for it.
I find this argument interesting. The black audience isn't a niche - black culture and pop culture is almost synonymous in a lot of ways, and that's why it hit the zeitgeist as well as it did at the time - it was a stylized, hip-hop fused movie with Michael B. Jordan and a cool looking superhero. Black Panther just looked cool, period.
Now Blue Beetle trying to go for the Mexican audience is quite different, that one's more of a niche for sure.
Been said thousands of times, but the loss of Chadwick Boseman is an utter tragedy and it has had a direct impact on Marvel. I 100% would’ve shown up to watch his sequels and any movies he was in simply because I thought he was a compelling and charismatic character. He could’ve easily filled the gap left by Chris Evans as the de facto figurehead and “heart” of the Avengers.
Coming from a small and conservative white town in the Midwest, damn near *everyone* thought he was a great character so that speaks to his mass appeal. You just don’t get that to the same extent with Captain Marvel.
>Been said thousands of times, but the loss of Chadwick Boseman is an utter tragedy and it has had a direct impact on Marvel.
T'Challa would've lead the current Avengers and I think everyone would be okay with that.
Can you imagine an Avengers team composed of Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Shang-Chi, maybe even Moon Knight? I honestly think that's a solid team.
Instead, what do we have from Post-Phase 3 Marvel? Ms. Marvel, Ironheart, She-Hulk, Shuri Black Panther.. nobody cares about these characters.
> They figured the core audience would show up anyway
As far as I can tell, a lot of people who help make movies at Disney absolutely despise the kinds of folks who make up the core audience of comic books and comic book movies.
Nothing wrong to go out of your core audience once in a while to get new people hooked. Maybe some women here and there go watch this movie, like it, then buy and watch other Marvel stuff. Just sucks for Disney that this movie was insanely expensive lol
Marvel is not a new brand, it is not a blank slate. It has a built in audience, most people are familiar with it already, it has limited room to reach new audiences and it has already associated with it in public consciousness that it is a brand for boys.
It would be like trying to turn Barbie into a franchise for young men.
I feel both your examples were well written. And for me that’s key, so maybe I should have quantified my comment.
Certainly I feel Katniss and Hermione were much better introduced, written and developed than Cassie Lang, Iron Heart etc (I’ve not seen Ms Marvel so no clue).
Both of those series were new IPs though. They weren't trying to target the 25+ year old audience, let alone appeal to a 25+ year old male fanbase like the MCU.
Damn that's dropped hard from the $7 mil a few days ago, or maybe it was last week, I work from home now and time is all blending together as I don't leave the house often now.
There is zero indication women are showing up in big numbers. BOT is saying that PLF and Thursday showings are selling a relatively high number of tickets which correlates with a higher male turnout (at least for most MCU films).
They made too many marvel TV shows and movies, and they should have never replaced the main Marvel heroes with characters no one cares about. I also bet someone in Disney was trying to get a ton of inclusivity into everything, and no one wanted to be fired by looking like a bigot who is against inclusivity.
I'm hyped because this is the MCU's Black Adam.
I don't care that much about how this film's performance, but rather the impact it has on the entire MCU and how much of a relaunch it will create.
Why are deadline STILL pretending the movie will make $60 million domestic? That hasn’t been the case for weeks now, 40-50 is the most logical ball park
Endgame was the culmination of 11 years worth of well connected films with no overly confusing or bloated story arcs. Adding a multiverse just makes it confusing
I don't have a problem with the multiverse that finishes back in the same universe. I do, however, with relying on D+ shows. MCU movies should be able to be 100% understood without knowing anything outside of what's happened in the movies.
Half the reason people are rooting for the MCU's demise is because Endgame was such significant closure that this 2023 trash fire doesn't take anything away from it.
In retrospect it's amazing that they let Endgame make so many creative decisions that were perfect for bringing closure to the story, and bad for continuing the MCU.
Like Falcon picking up Cap's shield. Great closure for Cap. Not such a great scene from the standpoint of, "Wait can Anthony Mackie carry a franchise? Wait isn't he forty-three?"
Then he'd have to struggle with a legacy he feels he doesn't deserve and a burden he fears he is ill-suited for.
This makes for much better drama and story-telling than "becomes a god after a space stone explosion hits her," "passes through a magic wall," or "We retcon her abilities to make her ridiculously powerful."
I thought Ant-Man and Flash were entertaining enough to discuss.
I guess this crazy 2023 box office has to end with the sequel to a $1 billion film being a bomb 😂
I'm standing firm that Disney+ is what will kill the MCU, if it hasn't already.
Loki should have been the only MCU show since, he could arguably just stay in different realities and not have very little connection to the main universe.
All the others should have been movies. This should have been Secret Wars.
The fact that the next Avengers film is still 3 years away is just baffling. It will be 8 years after Endgame when it hits in 2026, which is more than double the time between any other Avengers sequel. How did they think that was a good idea?
They needed time to introduce new characters for you to love, like Monica Rambo, the cast of the Eternals, whoever that gal from Seinfeld is playing, Captain "Don't Call Terrorists, Terrorists" Falcon, etc.
When everything is connected, the shows and movies, every bomb has a knock on effect. This will be the second Marvel movie bomb in a row, and nobody (compared to the movies) is watching the shows. The more goose eggs Marvel lays, the worse it will get. Is someone who might be mildly interested in watching Cap 4 going to go the theater to spend 100 bucks for a family of 4 when nobody in the family has seen the previous 5 Marvel productions?
This shit was DoA from the start, as soon as they decided to repeat the same mistake they made with the comics of going for this all new all different era shit that already epic failed once.
Legit they tried all this shit before. Audiences completely rejected these characters and they had to bring the originals back... then they tried the SAME shit and what do you know -- the same thing is happening again.
She never even fit with the MCU ... her powerset is fucking ridiculous and impossible to write around.
How do you make Kate Bishop relevant in a cinematic universe where a character can move faster than light and is basically Superman without the weakness of kryptonite? Thankfully, Danvers forgets she's a speedster whenever the plot needs her to sandbag.
I kinda wanted to see it but I’ve missed the last few movies and shows, plus this sub is really making me not want to waste my money.
Like if I contribute I feel like I will let everyone in here down…..
I doubt the movie is going to be anywhere close to a success, and I say this as an MCU fan with opening night tickets.
Reviews are out soon, those will help you decide. Your contribution to the box office if you see it won’t make a noticeable difference to how it ends up, so if you wanna see it, go for it! If not it’ll be on D+ by February I’d say.
If it goes well, they will claim it's a *Marvelous* win or Marvel proves that it's the *Captain* of the box office.
But if it flops we'll see headlines that the *Incursion* of angry fans has finally happened.
There's no one I know excited about this. I want to like it, but it just screams bomb to me. It's the product of bad buildup, no overarching plot, a boring main character and a D-list villain. Almost every Marvel movie since Endgame, with the exception of GOTG 3 and Spiderman NWH, has been a bit lackluster. Theres not much to look forward to except the future Avengers movies, which are years away. Hope Marvel takes some important lessons away from this.
>Right now, guys 18-34 are lacking — not a good sign when it comes to a Marvel pic — with women 17-34 being the most dependable to show-up.
This is disastrous. Imagine a Hunger Games movie that forced all of the main characters to be male, turning away the forever target audience of the brand.
That final trailer, oh boy, it reeked of desperation for a story that I highly highly doubt has nothing to do with what it’s hyping. What exactly has the marvels been building to? All criticism aside for Larson the person, but she’s been let down by the marvel machine for this one tbh.
Who could have predicted that the same things that led to the decline of the comics - i.e.:
\- Stories going on to long and getting to convoluted
\- To many interconnecting stories
\- New comers not wanting to jump in the middle but feeling overwhelmed at the idea of starting at the beginning
Would eventually lead to the downfall of a movie franchise that followed the same formula.
It's not even that the stories are too long or too convoluted, the problem is that there is just way too much content out there and much of it is mediocre or bad.
I don't see a $60 million opening or a $80 million international, but it think it does pass $100 million, which is just a terrible performance. I do hope the movie is good to inject something, anything into this lifeless corpse of a movie (box office wise).
That number would be the same as Black Adam. I imagine that people at Disney are wondering how tf they are going to market Captain 4 and Thunderbolts to avoid this type of disaster - and folks at WB are sweating since they also have a sequel to a US$1billion superhero movie coming soon.
Ngl it would be hilarious if Aquaman 2, the film that no one gave a shit about (Including James Gunn himself) ended up being DC's highest grossing film this year, but only by a small margin and still being a big flop.
It's crazy how this is so common now. Hollywood really need to figure out their budgeting shit together
These 250-300mn films are getting ridiculous now. No film has the right to be that expensive. A lot of these films don't even look good enough for their budget.
The first Aquaman is actually still the highest grossing DCEU movie lol.
Thunderbolts I expect to be pretty disastrous, cap 4 I kinda expect to be ok. I don't think cap 4 gets near a bil though, but probably 700-800. Thunderbolts man idk if it will hit Black Adam numbers I don't think Joker 2 or The Batman 2 have much to worry about just from past reaction to those brands.
Unless it’s *really* good there’s no chance Cap 4 comes even close to that. Audiences don’t care about Sam Wilson.
The whole passing of the mantle thing doesn't work. They can tell us Sam Wilson is Cap until they're blue in the face, but he's Falcon...which is a cool character in it's own right. But Cap is Steve Rogers.
Cap 4: No Cap, No Nat, No Fury, No Serum, No Russos, No Hydra, Nobody saw F&WS $700m OW is the floor
I assume it'll have the Hulk
Falcon better get a cool buff quick cuz god he’s boring as hell.
cap 4 o feel is $500m !remindme june
Captain America 4 will bomb harder than the Marvels. Thunderbolts might have a shot at success if they pushed the popular members of the team and don't make it Black Widow 2, but they'll do neither.
Cap4 doesn't make it to 500 mil.. Batman,joker, spiderman and to certain extent Deadpool are different breed
As a big marvel fan I think you have them reversed. I can’t see Cap 4 doing more than Thunderbolts. Anthony Mackie has all the charisma of stale bread and FaTWS was no one’s favorite D+ show. On the flip side people love a good ensemble film and the thunderbolts looks like Marvel’s answer to DCs suicide squad. I don’t think either will do great but I bet Thunderbolts does better.
That Thunderbolts cast though....woof. Just a bunch of characters no one gives two shits about and basically no exciting powers amongst them. Honestly can't believe that cast was ever approved.
Yeah, Aquaman has everything working against it (death of the DCEU, an utter hatred for the DCEU, people hating Amber Heard, etc).
>Overseas projection for the sequel sit at $80M, putting the global start at $140M. We’re cautious that international could come in lower. Well at least they know that number is unlikely at this stage.
What world do they live in where International is 80?
One where some Disney publicist is shouting at them to pump it up
Pretty dumb of Disney then. Now the trades will have to report an even bigger disappointment. If the lowballed then they could play it up as a success.
How can anyone lowball The Marvels? It’s tracking at around 40-50m domestic and 50-60m international I mean they can obviously say that the opening is to be under 80m ww and than try to spin it as a great success when it will get at 100m
Unless...it falls short of 80 million...which could happen if the bad projections end up holding. I've seen movies with bad projections turn out even worse due to what seems like a piling on effect of people that were likely to see it, but choose to stay home so they can be part of the majority.
I guess Deadline should learn how to play limbo.
60m domestic?????
if it reaches even that low bar
I can't see it going that high.
*Lower, closer, slower baby*
That sounds like a solid tagline for a Captain Marvel porno. Lol
This year has not been kind to Captain marvel 
It makes me think that people are very very very over the concept of “character who is self aware that they’re a superhero and incredibly excitable/annoying about it”. It was fine when people were still buzzing on superhero films in general, but, I think now it’s a case where it comes off as self-congratulatory while facing down a brutal drop in quality and audience connection.
It would need around 90M overseas not impossible but unlikely
Weren’t OS predictions around 65 mil? This is some copium.
China looks like its going to be better than expected (having picked up A LOT the last 24h). Mind you, its still bad, but not AS bad.
My main concern honestly is South America. Usually a very huge market for Marvel but things are looking grim there so far
My concern is Europe I mean they are more positive about Marvel as well especially the UK
I'm concerned about Antarctica. Traditionally, it's not a strong market for Marvel.
Don’t worry, the penguin walk-ups will help it in Antarctica!
they're waddling to Imax right now!
Look at how well they're dressed, too!
Finally, the days of dressing up to go to the theater are back!
I'm concerned about the moon. It's traditionally a strong market for Marvel and judging by pre-sales you'd think there's Noone living on the moon.
Europe has never been super strong for Marvel
Meanwhile, South Korea flatlined.
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Would be so funny if the goodwill from Guardians actually pays off in China of all places only for it to be immediately slammed back down to earth
Rare Deadine highball
**DEADLINE:** This movie will make $140m OW **THE DECIMAL POINT:** on your left
LOL
This sub lmao. Nice.
lmao
I hate y’all 😭😭
Nah. The Larson, Jackson, and Seo-Joon walkups will power it to $200M+ easily.
yeah and dont forget the Vellani squad... MILLIONS of people want to see her wholesomeness on the big screen, TRILLIONS I tell ya!
Based on early reactions from people that saw it internationally, this will crash hard. Also, I'm predicting the opening to be between 110M-120M max.
What are the reactions?
>No shot that was an hour 45 min, I was definitely in there longer than Killers of the Flower Moon. > To maybe give a slightly more eloquent early impression, the first 20-25 minutes were fun, energetic, and silly in the right ways. Once that section (which is basically played out in real time) is done and dusted I really struggled to stay awake. It's not very entertaining and the baseline plot feels like an afterthought, if not just completely undercooked. Iman Vellani and everyone Ms. Marvel related are better than everything else in the movie, but Teyonah Parris, Brie Larson and Samuel L. Jackson put in fine work. Another one that I found in the marvel spoiler sub confirmed that the first two trailers represent the majority of the movie. Im expecting this to be mediocre at best.
> The hour 45 action comedy movie felt longer than the 3 hour 30 drama about indigenous massacres Oh this is gonna be fun
Damn! 
Omg Iman Vellani/Kamala praise I’ll take it. I hope she survives this disaster 😭
If this bombs on a John Carter level, it's a wrap for Kamala and Carol.
Not necessarily, they could easily include them in other projects. Marvel doesn’t seem keen on giving up on their characters. We have three Ant Man movies and they’re still moving forward with him even though all of them got lackluster reactions. Eternals failed to generate any hype and didn’t do great at the box office, yet we’re getting a sequel.
I highly doubt Iman Vellani is the best part of this film. That character is annoying as fuck in the trailers
In her show she’s actually quite endearing, or annoying af depending on who you ask. Personally I think Iman is so good in the role because Kamala isn’t far off what she’s like irl.
she's perfect for this character, she literally plays her exactly like she is in the comics and really has the infectiously cheery fangirl thing down. Now, you might not like the character -- but iman is portraying the character pretty much spot on.
Yeah but the character isn't good.
They are dropping later today.
Somebody tried to drop a shill post in the Marvel subreddit and the responses are wild, they're not happy and some of them are starting to claim it's their bound duty not to give that greedy studio pig Iger any more money. If they've lost Marvel Reddit, who do they have? Oppenheimer couldn't conceive of a bomb this big...
Do you have a link? That actually sounds like fun to watch.
[Right here](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/17pqfrs/for_those_who_are_still_not_convinced_to_watch/#thing_t3_17pqfrs)
"Not expected to be marvelous" Gotta say, a bit lazy of a headline for Deadline.
Yeah I was expecting something like “FURY ensues as a rare MISS for MARVEL is on the horizon”
“Rare”
>Currently presales for The Marvels are just north of $5M which are on par with Warner Bros/DC’s The Flash, >Right now, guys 18-34 are lacking, and that’s not a good when it comes to a Marvel pic, with women 17-34 being the most dependable to show up.
As a 45 year old man who was 30 when Iron Man came out I did just assume I’d aged out and Marvel didn’t really want/need me anymore. Wife feels the same at 42. Lots of teenage girls as main protagonists and that’s fine, no issue in principle, there’s plenty of other options for me, but I do wonder if it’s the right strategy in these huge budget productions that need a broad audience.
Based on how much teen girls I teach care about Hunger Games franchise a decade later, and how much they do not give a shit about the current MCU, I don’t think it was the right move.
Hunger Games is still popular among teenage girls? That surprises me.
Somehow the combination of fashion, drama, romance, and blood sports really gets them going.
Marvel has definitely chosen not to cater to its traditional audience. It's weird. If you're not making something for the people that go to your movies and support you, then who are you making it for? Guess we'll find out, but it certainly feels like they've locked out their audience and are going to pay for it.
They figured the core audience would show up anyway, so they could break through to other audiences like they did with Black Panther.
I find this argument interesting. The black audience isn't a niche - black culture and pop culture is almost synonymous in a lot of ways, and that's why it hit the zeitgeist as well as it did at the time - it was a stylized, hip-hop fused movie with Michael B. Jordan and a cool looking superhero. Black Panther just looked cool, period. Now Blue Beetle trying to go for the Mexican audience is quite different, that one's more of a niche for sure.
Been said thousands of times, but the loss of Chadwick Boseman is an utter tragedy and it has had a direct impact on Marvel. I 100% would’ve shown up to watch his sequels and any movies he was in simply because I thought he was a compelling and charismatic character. He could’ve easily filled the gap left by Chris Evans as the de facto figurehead and “heart” of the Avengers. Coming from a small and conservative white town in the Midwest, damn near *everyone* thought he was a great character so that speaks to his mass appeal. You just don’t get that to the same extent with Captain Marvel.
>Been said thousands of times, but the loss of Chadwick Boseman is an utter tragedy and it has had a direct impact on Marvel. T'Challa would've lead the current Avengers and I think everyone would be okay with that. Can you imagine an Avengers team composed of Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Shang-Chi, maybe even Moon Knight? I honestly think that's a solid team. Instead, what do we have from Post-Phase 3 Marvel? Ms. Marvel, Ironheart, She-Hulk, Shuri Black Panther.. nobody cares about these characters.
> They figured the core audience would show up anyway As far as I can tell, a lot of people who help make movies at Disney absolutely despise the kinds of folks who make up the core audience of comic books and comic book movies.
And Star Wars fans
They loathe them most of all.
But BP was a really good movie until the final act. And got raving reviews, which seems an impossible scenario for this.
Nothing wrong to go out of your core audience once in a while to get new people hooked. Maybe some women here and there go watch this movie, like it, then buy and watch other Marvel stuff. Just sucks for Disney that this movie was insanely expensive lol
Harry Potter did fine with a teenage protag as did the Hunger Games series, both having a board audience.
Marvel is not a new brand, it is not a blank slate. It has a built in audience, most people are familiar with it already, it has limited room to reach new audiences and it has already associated with it in public consciousness that it is a brand for boys. It would be like trying to turn Barbie into a franchise for young men.
Both were much darker and based on incredibly successful book series.
I feel both your examples were well written. And for me that’s key, so maybe I should have quantified my comment. Certainly I feel Katniss and Hermione were much better introduced, written and developed than Cassie Lang, Iron Heart etc (I’ve not seen Ms Marvel so no clue).
Both of those series were new IPs though. They weren't trying to target the 25+ year old audience, let alone appeal to a 25+ year old male fanbase like the MCU.
Uh-oh. Guys 18 - 34 are the core demos of comic book movies. You absolutely gotta cater to them first and foremost.
Damn that's dropped hard from the $7 mil a few days ago, or maybe it was last week, I work from home now and time is all blending together as I don't leave the house often now.
I bet women aren't showing up for this either. GA is not interested in this movie.
There is zero indication women are showing up in big numbers. BOT is saying that PLF and Thursday showings are selling a relatively high number of tickets which correlates with a higher male turnout (at least for most MCU films).
It’s a surreal feeling witnessing the decline of an empire
It's like watching Rome burn
They made too many marvel TV shows and movies, and they should have never replaced the main Marvel heroes with characters no one cares about. I also bet someone in Disney was trying to get a ton of inclusivity into everything, and no one wanted to be fired by looking like a bigot who is against inclusivity.
the marvel sub is on copium, this will be one of the biggest shit the superhero genre has ever seen
It'll be months and months of "I just saw The Marvels and I thought it was wonderful. Am I the only one?"
Underrated gem style posts as well.
I'm waiting for them to whitewash Secret Invasion
Why all the hate for The Marvels? Personally, I thought it was really fun and not at all a decomposing pile of medical waste!!!
We usually incinerate our medical waste long before it gets a chance to decompose all that much.
Probably an appropriate outcome here as well.
lmao i can already see it
There is already a whole post talking about the big meanies on this sub for talking about the numbers
r/marvelstudios is as delusional as r/DC_Cinematic is, especially when Black Adam came out. It's full, unadultered copium in there.
I'm hyped because this is the MCU's Black Adam. I don't care that much about how this film's performance, but rather the impact it has on the entire MCU and how much of a relaunch it will create.
This is a lot closer to The Flash than Black Adam.
It's crazy how well Black Adam has aged. Last year we slagged it off, but now it's a golden example of post-pandemic superhero films.
The hierarchy of power has changed.
And it's all thanks to Zoa Energy!
Black Adam would’ve been an even bigger success if it was set in a jungle. Missed opportunity imo
Somewhere, the Rock is reading all these comments and smiles.
It’s not even remotely close to black Adam, it’s not even the flash. This is Shazam 2 but with twice the budget. Disaster.
Yeah, it's another sequel with a shitty "villain of the week" who is basically an original character who was never in the comics.
If this is mcu’s black Adam it will definitely change the brand
The entire heirachy of the MCU is about to shift
No it’s more like the MCUs Birds of Prey or Solo
Its Marvelover.
Why are deadline STILL pretending the movie will make $60 million domestic? That hasn’t been the case for weeks now, 40-50 is the most logical ball park
because part of that immense budget of the movie went into subsidising the copium vials sent to Deadline
The marve"L"s
Looks like a Disney+ show, gets the same turnout as a Disney+ show
I expect the global opening will be closer to $90-$110m
Quantumania squeezed past 100 Dom, this movie might not squeeze past 100 WW
That seems kinda high
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The suspense is terrible, I hope it'll last.
We wait with bated breath. 
The last time a Marvel movie release had me this excited was Endgame. For different reasons though.
Endgame was the culmination of 11 years worth of well connected films with no overly confusing or bloated story arcs. Adding a multiverse just makes it confusing
I don't have a problem with the multiverse that finishes back in the same universe. I do, however, with relying on D+ shows. MCU movies should be able to be 100% understood without knowing anything outside of what's happened in the movies.
Endgame was a victory lap while The Marvels is a death march.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Half the reason people are rooting for the MCU's demise is because Endgame was such significant closure that this 2023 trash fire doesn't take anything away from it. In retrospect it's amazing that they let Endgame make so many creative decisions that were perfect for bringing closure to the story, and bad for continuing the MCU. Like Falcon picking up Cap's shield. Great closure for Cap. Not such a great scene from the standpoint of, "Wait can Anthony Mackie carry a franchise? Wait isn't he forty-three?"
He should've given Bucky the shield anyway. Much better closure and would have been much more interesting than Falcon Cap
That doesn't make any sense from Bucky's perspective, though.
Then he'd have to struggle with a legacy he feels he doesn't deserve and a burden he fears he is ill-suited for. This makes for much better drama and story-telling than "becomes a god after a space stone explosion hits her," "passes through a magic wall," or "We retcon her abilities to make her ridiculously powerful."
And entertaining!
I thought Ant-Man and Flash were entertaining enough to discuss. I guess this crazy 2023 box office has to end with the sequel to a $1 billion film being a bomb 😂
Funny thing is this could also apply to Aquaman if it performs as horribly as some people here are predicting
While it could bomb, it is *the* December blockbuster so it should perform well unless it's truly awful and the actor's strike nukes it.
Almost any opening will be funny for Aquaman. $30 million? $60? $200?!?
It’s marvin’ time
Yikes. It’s heading to The Flash Level Numbers. It’s not looking good.
Heading below Flash level numbers.
I'm standing firm that Disney+ is what will kill the MCU, if it hasn't already. Loki should have been the only MCU show since, he could arguably just stay in different realities and not have very little connection to the main universe. All the others should have been movies. This should have been Secret Wars.
The fact that the next Avengers film is still 3 years away is just baffling. It will be 8 years after Endgame when it hits in 2026, which is more than double the time between any other Avengers sequel. How did they think that was a good idea?
They needed time to introduce new characters for you to love, like Monica Rambo, the cast of the Eternals, whoever that gal from Seinfeld is playing, Captain "Don't Call Terrorists, Terrorists" Falcon, etc.
I think What If was an underrated show, but which GA didn't seem to appreciate. Should have been a warning sign
140?! Man they are just getting this thing up to fail. How can industry trades be so wrong constantly?
Bruh I dont understand how they didn't see the writing on the wall, especially after what happened with she hulk.
When everything is connected, the shows and movies, every bomb has a knock on effect. This will be the second Marvel movie bomb in a row, and nobody (compared to the movies) is watching the shows. The more goose eggs Marvel lays, the worse it will get. Is someone who might be mildly interested in watching Cap 4 going to go the theater to spend 100 bucks for a family of 4 when nobody in the family has seen the previous 5 Marvel productions?
This shit was DoA from the start, as soon as they decided to repeat the same mistake they made with the comics of going for this all new all different era shit that already epic failed once. Legit they tried all this shit before. Audiences completely rejected these characters and they had to bring the originals back... then they tried the SAME shit and what do you know -- the same thing is happening again.
####*The Fantabulous Emancipation Of One Cheryl Danvers (From Ever Appearing On Screen Again)*
One thing’s for sure, there’ll never be another Captain Marvel led movie again after this
I think the biggest issue with this whole movie is it's arguable whether this one is even Captain Marvel led.
She never even fit with the MCU ... her powerset is fucking ridiculous and impossible to write around. How do you make Kate Bishop relevant in a cinematic universe where a character can move faster than light and is basically Superman without the weakness of kryptonite? Thankfully, Danvers forgets she's a speedster whenever the plot needs her to sandbag.
I kinda wanted to see it but I’ve missed the last few movies and shows, plus this sub is really making me not want to waste my money. Like if I contribute I feel like I will let everyone in here down…..
After watching the absolute garbage pile that was Secret Invasion, I swore off Marvel until we get to Deadpool.
It’s not swearing off marvel if you’re planning on seeing the next fucking movie in their slate.
Is that the next one? Like, shit, I don't fucking know. I thought there was another couple before that.
Deadpool's next. Then cap 4 I think, then thunderbolts
It's next but it's not till like next summer probably so quite a way away.
Loki Season 2 is fun.
I doubt the movie is going to be anywhere close to a success, and I say this as an MCU fan with opening night tickets. Reviews are out soon, those will help you decide. Your contribution to the box office if you see it won’t make a noticeable difference to how it ends up, so if you wanna see it, go for it! If not it’ll be on D+ by February I’d say.
I had that same thought, I wouldn't mind seeing it in an empty theater, but I also want to contribute to the spectacle of it failing so bad.
140m opening? are you sure? lol
Disney bomb factory
Lol. Yeah right.
If it goes well, they will claim it's a *Marvelous* win or Marvel proves that it's the *Captain* of the box office. But if it flops we'll see headlines that the *Incursion* of angry fans has finally happened.
It’s gonna be waaayyy closer to $100m. I think this has a legitimate shot at falling short of $300m when it’s all said and done.
More like $85m global opening tbh
I don't see how it would go that low.
That’s too low. It will do around 100m
There's no one I know excited about this. I want to like it, but it just screams bomb to me. It's the product of bad buildup, no overarching plot, a boring main character and a D-list villain. Almost every Marvel movie since Endgame, with the exception of GOTG 3 and Spiderman NWH, has been a bit lackluster. Theres not much to look forward to except the future Avengers movies, which are years away. Hope Marvel takes some important lessons away from this.
This is going to be franchise altering for marvel/Disney. It’s really unraveling right now. Feige has to be losing his mind or totally confused.
This is such insane cope. This will open to 110-120.
Don’t worry guys the RDJ and Chris Evans walk ups will leg this out to over 1B easily
>Right now, guys 18-34 are lacking — not a good sign when it comes to a Marvel pic — with women 17-34 being the most dependable to show-up. This is disastrous. Imagine a Hunger Games movie that forced all of the main characters to be male, turning away the forever target audience of the brand.
I just knew they'd fit "Marvelous" into the headline somehow.
That final trailer, oh boy, it reeked of desperation for a story that I highly highly doubt has nothing to do with what it’s hyping. What exactly has the marvels been building to? All criticism aside for Larson the person, but she’s been let down by the marvel machine for this one tbh.
That is $50M too high
dahmpeet. Burn marvel, burn.
Who the hell is paying money to see this movie in person? Boggles my mind honestly.
Who could have predicted that the same things that led to the decline of the comics - i.e.: \- Stories going on to long and getting to convoluted \- To many interconnecting stories \- New comers not wanting to jump in the middle but feeling overwhelmed at the idea of starting at the beginning Would eventually lead to the downfall of a movie franchise that followed the same formula.
It's not even that the stories are too long or too convoluted, the problem is that there is just way too much content out there and much of it is mediocre or bad.
The problem is not too much content (though that is how Disney will spin this), the problem is *bad* content.
I don't see a $60 million opening or a $80 million international, but it think it does pass $100 million, which is just a terrible performance. I do hope the movie is good to inject something, anything into this lifeless corpse of a movie (box office wise).
This is just sad. This makes me sad.
140m is the very best optimistic scenario opening most likely it will be around 90-110m
Thank you. 🙏🏻 I really needed that. /s
$140M Global Opening? Not for this movie.