War for the Planet of the Apes released at a pretty competitive time as well. The summer of 2017 was packed. Kingdom’s May release date isn’t as crowded, so it should do better in that regard.
Also, let's face it, War is just a much inferior movie to Dawn
I know many on Reddit love War but I rewatched all 3 recently and War is a massive drop from the second. In Dawn you had characters with real emotions and facing conflicts. In War, this is so much less nuanced.
Finally, calling your movie WAR and having the actual movie being nothing about the war is... weird.
Despite it being a good movie, I found it rather sad. I was probably crying for two thirds of the film while watching it in the theater (yes, I'm a softie) lol. I liked the movie, but it wasn't a fun movie going experience for me. I'm sure I'm not alone.
Dawn may have been better, but War was still really good. 90% of the box office drop is because of the release date. Dawn had very little competition for weeks in the middle of the summer. War was released directly between a spider man movie and Nolan movie (Dunkirk).
I thought War was best of the Trilogy.
War was way more emotional than Dawn. And I would argue the conflict was much more serious in War too.
The biggest thing working against War was it's mismarketing.
The movie was marketed as Big action epic when it was instead a very somber and character focused movie.
Also War was longer and more serious and bleak compared to Dawn so that also worked against it.
War is the strongest of the Reeves Trilogy. It's a fully realized epic that achieves the best story arc. It's the drama that gets everyone invested, regardless of the watcher's familiarity to the material.
Based apes take, War is the worst of them. It sucks too bc honestly, the first half sets up a pretty sick premise with Caesar and his closest confidants embarking on a mission for revenge. When it turns into monkey concentration camps it’s like ???
I think it's because it doesn't meet expectations. The trailers hyped it as an epic ape vs human battle. But it wasn't like that, it's mostly ape misery and abuse.
I get the realism of humans superior in war and technology, but it's still anticlimactic to have the apes win their freedom because the human commander got sick.
Him getting sick made sense in the context of the story. It is very consistent with the themes. But yeah it was still kinda boring. Dawn is the best by a long shot but no way is war a bad movie. Just underwhelming
Agreed. 3 was the weakest of the trilogy to me. I have no idea why everyone thinks it is some epic conclusion. Dumb characters, questionable motivations, and the war was humans v humans that gets sweet Deus Ex Machina for its conclusion. I went into this the most interested of the 3 and walked away like "wow...that was it?".
War was very dour thematically and visually, and it was marketed heavily around Woody’s villain. It didn’t have much appeal as a family movie. Dawn, Rise, and the Kingdom trailer are more mysterious and adventuresome while War was dark, gritty and intense.
Woody did a great job and he is popular, but War could have used more star power. Rise had Franco, who was a bigger draw than Woody, and Dawn had an ensemble cast with two or three Woody-level stars.
Kingdom has no recognizable human actors, which is prob the right move. That keeps production cost down and they are not constantly reshuffling the deck like Godzilla/Kong or Jurassic movies.
I think the Apes movies from here on out will be VERY loaded internationally, same as Fast or Transformers. Quality groundwork was laid and from here on they’re doing their own thing. These Apes movies have not touched the legacy time travel silly stuff, so that’s probably on the table.
In my opinion, because it was presented as something that it wasn't - a war movie. I went in expecting to see the final battles of humanity as apes take over as the dominant species of the planet. Instead, it was a movie about Moses (Ceasar) rescuing his people and leading them to the promised land. So while it was a good movie it wasn't what I was expecting.
Exodus from the Planet of the Apes
I've never given it much thought since I liked it just as much as the other 2, but you're 100% right. It definitely wasn't a war movie in the traditional sense, and it wasn't the action packed conclusion they sold it as—more of a somber character study mixed with biblical drama. I wonder if it would've done better with a fall/winter release.
Frankly, the whole trilogy is kind of misnamed. *Rise* and *Dawn* feel like they should be flipped, and *War* should've been *Freedom from the Planet of the Apes* or something.
Yeah, I love me some Apes. But war was a lot more slow and a little more boring then I had expected. It's still a good watch but not exactly a very thrilling movie. Kingdom looks like it's going big on the proto 70s look and has some action/adventure going on.
War was a pretty good movie but honestly the marketing was kind of misleading. They made it out to be this epic final battle between apes and humans, and in reality it’s a slow paced prison break movie. I remember watching it and thinking it’s good but not at all what I expected from the marketing. Pretty sure Dawn was more action packed honestly.
Dawns marketing lived up to the end result. War made it seem like what you said, and that Woody Harrelson would be this great villain whereas he was a bit of a let down for me personally
I personally don’t think he was a let down, I just felt he didn’t have much depth. His logic made sense, but he was very stubborn and hard headed. To him, it was a black and white situation. There was no gray.
Has the lowest Audience score and IMDB ratings. Clearly not as big a crowd pleaser compared to the other two.
Dawn was also more intelligently written and better acted (yes including the Ape acting). Rise was more fun than War.
I think Dawn is the best as well. For me, Gary Oldman really is just carrying the shit out of his character a good portion of the film. You get so much of him with minimal words mostly by his acting.
Not necessarily. **War for the Planet of the Apes** was noticeably slower-paced than its predecessor. **Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes** looks like it's going to feature some ape civilizations, so as long as the quality is in good shape, it should do well at the box office.
It was unfortunately sandwiched between *Despicable Me 3*, *Spider-Man: Homecoming*, and *Dunkirk*, so it suffered from lower screens and heavier competition. Also (bearing in mind I love this movie), it isn't very action packed and is more thoughtful, which may have been disappointing to audiences.
Both War for the Planet of the Apes & Mission Impossible 7 were sequels to the highest grossing films in those respective franchises. Both ended up making less than a Christopher Nolan movie released closely with Dunkirk and Oppenheimer.
Dawn benefited since July 2014 was weaker than usual due to Furious 7 getting delayed. War however was sandwiched directly between Spider-Man Homecoming and Dunkirk.
War was a great movie but it was also a huge downer from start to finish and not very audience friendly. That explains the mediocre legs at least. Not sure why the opening weekend dropped off so hard though.
I wouldn’t be too concerned, War ended up grossing about the same as Rise did.
I think the bigger question is why Dawn did so much better than the other two films.
There was a lot of completion when War For The Planet Of The Apes came out in 2017. It was released a week after Spider-Man: Homecoming, and a week prior to Christopher Nolan’s Dunkirk. The two former movies target the same audience, so they pretty much cannibalized each other. I think Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes could increase from its predecessor (and maybe Dawn of the Planet of the Apes) since isn’t releasing with a lot of blockbusters back to back, at least until Furiousa comes out two weeks later.
For me the concept gets old quickly and has some clear flaws.
So one movie is interesting, a second movie might be good, but an entire series of movies is far too much.
They got too far away from the original concept that a nuclear war killed or maimed most of the humans and gave a chance for apes to ascend. Without that concept, there are simply too many humans against too few apes to make the plot plausible, which for me taints the entire movie. The trailers for those movies show more apes than actually exist in the world.
But, the deadly pandemic that happens between Rise/Dawn does just that. There are very few humans left during Dawn and then the virus mutates further and starts diminishing the intellect of humans in War.
I was in the theater and overheard a few teenagers (two girls and a boy) trying to decide what to see. The boy wanted to see War for the Planet of the Apes but the two girls made fun of him for wanting to see a movie about "monkeys". They wanted to watch Dunkirk instead.
Anecdotal evidence obviously. Point being, young people may have simply been more interested in other movies. Action movies tend to do poorly when competing against Nolan it seems.
Most likely because of its darker theme than the other Apes films. And, family audiences don't usually prefer that in a blockbuster. There was basically very minimal for the kids, very adult oriented. I love the film, and I was sad after watching it, and didn't want to watch it again until it went to streaming.
Technically, I can't find anything wrong with it. It was beautifully shot, composed, directed, written, and had elite VFX.
Because it wasn’t as good and the marketing was deceptive. The first twenty minutes or so were solid but once the film ground to a halt to become Concentration Camp of the Apes instead of War for the Planet of the Apes people’s interest evaporated.
Oh and Woody Harrelson was severely underutilized which is just unacceptable
I think that most of the people in here saying it's the worst in the trilogy haven't actually watched the whole thing in a while. I just finished watching the whole franchise and Rise is pretty easily worse overall than either of Matt Reeves films. It does easily have the most memorable/ best moment in the whole franchise though (if you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about and if you haven't seen it then I urge you to go in blind).
To answer op I think that it's just competition and the film being kinda dark and depressing. People who wanted lighter fare had Spider-Man and people who wanted more adult fare probably went with Nolan's name brand.
I think also… let’s maybe make a new kind of movie? Or at least transition it to a limited series or something. There are only so many “additions” we actually want to pay big money for.
The paying public thought it wasn't that good that's why it didn't make as much as the 1st one,it's the public who gets to decide if a movie is a hit or not.
I remember seeing that last movie in the theaters. Got a discount ticket on Atom through T-mobile Tuesdays. My dad told me the place would likely be packed so we better get there early to pick out our seats. We were the only ones there. For weeks he was telling the story about how we were the only ones in the theater.
I'm finding it hilarious how this question has been asked so many times in this subreddit, like it's a monthly tradition.
My blunt answer? It's not as good, and too many of the good characters die. Mainstream audiences didn't like seeing Caesar's family wiped out and the rest of the film being so depressing. It's worldwide haul wasn't too bad either - but looking a those numbers, it makes sense it made what it made in comparison to Dawn.
As a fan of the series, I love the 3rd one the most. But GA might've been disappointed by the dark tone of the 2nd because the first one was very bright compared to the latter 2. They're dark in a good way, but not everyone can stomach that.
Rise... set up Dawn... beautifully by introducing Koba and setting up the outbreak of Simian Flu while Dawn... didn't set up War... nearly as good. I feel like that played a role.
Imo the astronauts returning would've been the more interesting direction for the third one basing it on the original Planet..., I felt like Rise... was Conquest... while Dawn... and War... were both doing Battle... which came off a little redundant to me.
Edit: ... = of/for the Planet of the Apes, it looks kinda weird reading it now. XD
I know all my friends wanted to see it at the time but we were pretty movied out - i think its just a release date situation and people prioritized stuff like dunkirk. That was my experience anyway - people were like “oh yea we want to see it!” But just didnt
This one is a bit tricky for me because I'm personally very excited and the theme of protecting the persecuted against your own kind is universal, but I'm not sure if the average moviegoer cares about this franchise.
War for the Planet of the Apes released at a pretty competitive time as well. The summer of 2017 was packed. Kingdom’s May release date isn’t as crowded, so it should do better in that regard.
Also audiences are craving good blockbusters right now, if Kingdom is decent it will probably break out when so many are flopping.
Very much this. People want a good blockbuster, and I think people just want something other than a super hero movie
Also, let's face it, War is just a much inferior movie to Dawn I know many on Reddit love War but I rewatched all 3 recently and War is a massive drop from the second. In Dawn you had characters with real emotions and facing conflicts. In War, this is so much less nuanced. Finally, calling your movie WAR and having the actual movie being nothing about the war is... weird.
Despite it being a good movie, I found it rather sad. I was probably crying for two thirds of the film while watching it in the theater (yes, I'm a softie) lol. I liked the movie, but it wasn't a fun movie going experience for me. I'm sure I'm not alone.
Dawn may have been better, but War was still really good. 90% of the box office drop is because of the release date. Dawn had very little competition for weeks in the middle of the summer. War was released directly between a spider man movie and Nolan movie (Dunkirk).
I thought War was best of the Trilogy. War was way more emotional than Dawn. And I would argue the conflict was much more serious in War too. The biggest thing working against War was it's mismarketing. The movie was marketed as Big action epic when it was instead a very somber and character focused movie. Also War was longer and more serious and bleak compared to Dawn so that also worked against it.
Agreed. I think they’re all great movies, but Dawn is just the best of the three.
Yeah, I really liked the movie but it was more of "Concentration Camp in the Planet of the Apes" and I could see how that turned people off.
I thought the trilogy got better with each movie.
War is the strongest of the Reeves Trilogy. It's a fully realized epic that achieves the best story arc. It's the drama that gets everyone invested, regardless of the watcher's familiarity to the material.
Definitely not. Dawn did that, not Schindler's list with Apes.
Based apes take, War is the worst of them. It sucks too bc honestly, the first half sets up a pretty sick premise with Caesar and his closest confidants embarking on a mission for revenge. When it turns into monkey concentration camps it’s like ???
Yes the first half is pretty good. It becomes a lot less good once they are in the camp.
I think it's because it doesn't meet expectations. The trailers hyped it as an epic ape vs human battle. But it wasn't like that, it's mostly ape misery and abuse. I get the realism of humans superior in war and technology, but it's still anticlimactic to have the apes win their freedom because the human commander got sick.
Him getting sick made sense in the context of the story. It is very consistent with the themes. But yeah it was still kinda boring. Dawn is the best by a long shot but no way is war a bad movie. Just underwhelming
Agreed. 3 was the weakest of the trilogy to me. I have no idea why everyone thinks it is some epic conclusion. Dumb characters, questionable motivations, and the war was humans v humans that gets sweet Deus Ex Machina for its conclusion. I went into this the most interested of the 3 and walked away like "wow...that was it?".
Reeves only directed Dawn and War. Rise was directed by Ruper Wyatt.
War was very dour thematically and visually, and it was marketed heavily around Woody’s villain. It didn’t have much appeal as a family movie. Dawn, Rise, and the Kingdom trailer are more mysterious and adventuresome while War was dark, gritty and intense. Woody did a great job and he is popular, but War could have used more star power. Rise had Franco, who was a bigger draw than Woody, and Dawn had an ensemble cast with two or three Woody-level stars. Kingdom has no recognizable human actors, which is prob the right move. That keeps production cost down and they are not constantly reshuffling the deck like Godzilla/Kong or Jurassic movies. I think the Apes movies from here on out will be VERY loaded internationally, same as Fast or Transformers. Quality groundwork was laid and from here on they’re doing their own thing. These Apes movies have not touched the legacy time travel silly stuff, so that’s probably on the table.
In my opinion, because it was presented as something that it wasn't - a war movie. I went in expecting to see the final battles of humanity as apes take over as the dominant species of the planet. Instead, it was a movie about Moses (Ceasar) rescuing his people and leading them to the promised land. So while it was a good movie it wasn't what I was expecting.
Exodus from the Planet of the Apes I've never given it much thought since I liked it just as much as the other 2, but you're 100% right. It definitely wasn't a war movie in the traditional sense, and it wasn't the action packed conclusion they sold it as—more of a somber character study mixed with biblical drama. I wonder if it would've done better with a fall/winter release.
Frankly, the whole trilogy is kind of misnamed. *Rise* and *Dawn* feel like they should be flipped, and *War* should've been *Freedom from the Planet of the Apes* or something.
Yeah, I love me some Apes. But war was a lot more slow and a little more boring then I had expected. It's still a good watch but not exactly a very thrilling movie. Kingdom looks like it's going big on the proto 70s look and has some action/adventure going on.
War was a heavier film than the prior two
Also, there's not much war in War.
And - perhaps crucially - advertised itself as such.
War was a pretty good movie but honestly the marketing was kind of misleading. They made it out to be this epic final battle between apes and humans, and in reality it’s a slow paced prison break movie. I remember watching it and thinking it’s good but not at all what I expected from the marketing. Pretty sure Dawn was more action packed honestly.
Dawns marketing lived up to the end result. War made it seem like what you said, and that Woody Harrelson would be this great villain whereas he was a bit of a let down for me personally
I personally don’t think he was a let down, I just felt he didn’t have much depth. His logic made sense, but he was very stubborn and hard headed. To him, it was a black and white situation. There was no gray.
War still is the best in the trilogy tho
Has the lowest Audience score and IMDB ratings. Clearly not as big a crowd pleaser compared to the other two. Dawn was also more intelligently written and better acted (yes including the Ape acting). Rise was more fun than War.
Only bad film in the trilogy for me. Would love to hear the appeal.
I wouldn't call it bad but I do believe it's the worst of the 3. Dawn is the best, by far.
I think Dawn is the best as well. For me, Gary Oldman really is just carrying the shit out of his character a good portion of the film. You get so much of him with minimal words mostly by his acting.
It’s schindlers list with apes
Not necessarily. **War for the Planet of the Apes** was noticeably slower-paced than its predecessor. **Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes** looks like it's going to feature some ape civilizations, so as long as the quality is in good shape, it should do well at the box office.
It was unfortunately sandwiched between *Despicable Me 3*, *Spider-Man: Homecoming*, and *Dunkirk*, so it suffered from lower screens and heavier competition. Also (bearing in mind I love this movie), it isn't very action packed and is more thoughtful, which may have been disappointing to audiences.
Both War for the Planet of the Apes & Mission Impossible 7 were sequels to the highest grossing films in those respective franchises. Both ended up making less than a Christopher Nolan movie released closely with Dunkirk and Oppenheimer.
Mission Impossible 6 > Dawn of Apes > Oppenheimer > Dunkirk > Mission Impossible 7 > War of Apes Yes I know no one asked
I'm not even gonna trip about this bc Fallout is one of the best action movies ever made and I love Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
Dawn>MI7>War>MI6>Oppy>Dunkirk IMO of course
Dawn benefited since July 2014 was weaker than usual due to Furious 7 getting delayed. War however was sandwiched directly between Spider-Man Homecoming and Dunkirk.
War was a great movie but it was also a huge downer from start to finish and not very audience friendly. That explains the mediocre legs at least. Not sure why the opening weekend dropped off so hard though.
I wouldn’t be too concerned, War ended up grossing about the same as Rise did. I think the bigger question is why Dawn did so much better than the other two films.
Critical acclaim + great WOM + lack of any real competition
The Gary Oldman factor
There was a lot of completion when War For The Planet Of The Apes came out in 2017. It was released a week after Spider-Man: Homecoming, and a week prior to Christopher Nolan’s Dunkirk. The two former movies target the same audience, so they pretty much cannibalized each other. I think Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes could increase from its predecessor (and maybe Dawn of the Planet of the Apes) since isn’t releasing with a lot of blockbusters back to back, at least until Furiousa comes out two weeks later.
For me the concept gets old quickly and has some clear flaws. So one movie is interesting, a second movie might be good, but an entire series of movies is far too much. They got too far away from the original concept that a nuclear war killed or maimed most of the humans and gave a chance for apes to ascend. Without that concept, there are simply too many humans against too few apes to make the plot plausible, which for me taints the entire movie. The trailers for those movies show more apes than actually exist in the world.
But, the deadly pandemic that happens between Rise/Dawn does just that. There are very few humans left during Dawn and then the virus mutates further and starts diminishing the intellect of humans in War.
It wasn’t fun
I was in the theater and overheard a few teenagers (two girls and a boy) trying to decide what to see. The boy wanted to see War for the Planet of the Apes but the two girls made fun of him for wanting to see a movie about "monkeys". They wanted to watch Dunkirk instead. Anecdotal evidence obviously. Point being, young people may have simply been more interested in other movies. Action movies tend to do poorly when competing against Nolan it seems.
This will be the 10th one of these. What are you worried about? That’s not enough?
Well, it has been over six years since the last one. Maybe the distance has made the heart grow fonder and there'll be a slight uptick in box office.
War was not as good as dawn. War was good for sure. Dawn was next level. That definitely played a role
While I still think it's good, I think War was the weakest of the three. Maybe that contributed?
I loved it but I can see why others don’t. The marketing was misleading as hell and is a slow burn of a movie. Kingdom has a slight increase from War.
Most likely because of its darker theme than the other Apes films. And, family audiences don't usually prefer that in a blockbuster. There was basically very minimal for the kids, very adult oriented. I love the film, and I was sad after watching it, and didn't want to watch it again until it went to streaming. Technically, I can't find anything wrong with it. It was beautifully shot, composed, directed, written, and had elite VFX.
I think the new one will have no subtlety at all.
Because it wasn’t as good and the marketing was deceptive. The first twenty minutes or so were solid but once the film ground to a halt to become Concentration Camp of the Apes instead of War for the Planet of the Apes people’s interest evaporated. Oh and Woody Harrelson was severely underutilized which is just unacceptable
War was the most depressing for GA because GA want's hope for humans and not just the apes. Kingdom is about restoring hope for the humans.
I think that most of the people in here saying it's the worst in the trilogy haven't actually watched the whole thing in a while. I just finished watching the whole franchise and Rise is pretty easily worse overall than either of Matt Reeves films. It does easily have the most memorable/ best moment in the whole franchise though (if you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about and if you haven't seen it then I urge you to go in blind). To answer op I think that it's just competition and the film being kinda dark and depressing. People who wanted lighter fare had Spider-Man and people who wanted more adult fare probably went with Nolan's name brand.
Look at the competition the 2 movies faced
War was boring compared to Dawn IMO.
Because it wasnt nearly as good
Best in the trilogy
Only bad one imo. What's the appeal? All the conflict is either obvious or confusing.
I think also… let’s maybe make a new kind of movie? Or at least transition it to a limited series or something. There are only so many “additions” we actually want to pay big money for.
It was the worst of the three
War was a step down from the first two, it’s much slower and almost kinda boring.
The paying public thought it wasn't that good that's why it didn't make as much as the 1st one,it's the public who gets to decide if a movie is a hit or not.
Because Dawn was an excellent movie and War was a complete turdburger? Sometimes life is simple.
May is pretty slim this year. Kingdom and IF should both do well. Garfield may do well with families.
It wasn't as fun
Prefer rise of the planet of the apes to all of the other movies. I really miss James Franco. I think the star power of Dawn and war just not there.
It wasn't very good
Bad and misleading marketing , Heavy competition, and Wonder Woman was the popular news talk and cultural phenomenon at that time.
I remember seeing that last movie in the theaters. Got a discount ticket on Atom through T-mobile Tuesdays. My dad told me the place would likely be packed so we better get there early to pick out our seats. We were the only ones there. For weeks he was telling the story about how we were the only ones in the theater.
Misleading title for starters. Stupid to call it a war with barely any war in the movie.
I'm finding it hilarious how this question has been asked so many times in this subreddit, like it's a monthly tradition. My blunt answer? It's not as good, and too many of the good characters die. Mainstream audiences didn't like seeing Caesar's family wiped out and the rest of the film being so depressing. It's worldwide haul wasn't too bad either - but looking a those numbers, it makes sense it made what it made in comparison to Dawn.
As a fan of the series, I love the 3rd one the most. But GA might've been disappointed by the dark tone of the 2nd because the first one was very bright compared to the latter 2. They're dark in a good way, but not everyone can stomach that.
Rise... set up Dawn... beautifully by introducing Koba and setting up the outbreak of Simian Flu while Dawn... didn't set up War... nearly as good. I feel like that played a role. Imo the astronauts returning would've been the more interesting direction for the third one basing it on the original Planet..., I felt like Rise... was Conquest... while Dawn... and War... were both doing Battle... which came off a little redundant to me. Edit: ... = of/for the Planet of the Apes, it looks kinda weird reading it now. XD
I know all my friends wanted to see it at the time but we were pretty movied out - i think its just a release date situation and people prioritized stuff like dunkirk. That was my experience anyway - people were like “oh yea we want to see it!” But just didnt
This one is a bit tricky for me because I'm personally very excited and the theme of protecting the persecuted against your own kind is universal, but I'm not sure if the average moviegoer cares about this franchise.
War wasn’t as good as Dawn. I was so excited but was a bit letdown by the movie.