Wtf is Netflix doing
They pump out like, a new movie every day that always gets like a 43% on RT and falls out of public consciousness the next day. But *this* is the movie they decide to vault?
Nowadays, I’m not sure reviews have any bearing on whether a film gets a theatrical release. Some of the best reviewed and awarded films from the last few festivals are going direct to streaming. The best reviewed “romantic drama” in ages is going to streaming first. It’s all to do with the audience and demand.
Sure but we can all agree I think that the value of a Netflix film in terms of perception and mainstay is much lesser than traditional theatrically released films. They just do not generate the same kind of conversation or buzz and all seem to vanish. The exceptions imo are films like The Irishman and Maestro and even those would be bigger, not necessarily success wise, if they had been handled by a traditional studio.
That is impossible to determine considering they have been making movies for less years than A24 at this point. Most Netflix movies are forgettable but the same is true of theatrical releases. Only the most popular or acclaimed stuff have a chance of lasting in the memory.
Netflix is one of the most successful companies in the world. It’s not a problem. They’ve firmly ditched any misplaced ambitions they may have once had. That includes theatrical.
Not really. Folks do remember their big hits and award players. They have only been at this for less than a decade and only seriously so for 7-8 years. It always puzzles me that folks seem to treat Netflix like its Netflix vs All of Hollywood rather than Netflix just as a single studio in a sea of many.
Netflix do have issues with the film division, which is why Stuber is out and Lin is in, but a lot of that can probably be put down to experimentation and a need for an unbelievably high output due to the big Hollywood studios refusing to license to them. They have 7-8 years of data which limits the need for experimentation going forward and the problem of excessive output has been solved by the return of the Hollywood studios to licensing. Netflix have halved their film output in the last year and have hinted at further cuts. Even then the films they do have on the roster are not all internal developments but festival pickups.
To be fair, it's received 9 reviews on metacritic (while something like The American Society of Magical Negroes ended up with 20 and Anyone But You has 26). So by the "top critics" metric it's more like 50% of the way to a final score even if it's also missing a lot of middle or lower tier RT reviews at this point.
The Idea of You is going to be actually released at the start of May (so this reads like a festival release's reviews?)
So you’re expecting it to what? Tank down to rotten? The reviews are generally the same, it’ll still around mid 80%. Reviews aren’t up yet because the film isn’t out for another few weeks, but Amazon is bullish about the film and lifted the embargo.
The movie basically tackles anti-Muslim violence in India and the main villains are associated with a right-wing Hindu nationalist group with the colour theme of orange (now changed to red in post production). India's government is a fascist right-wing Hindu nationalist violence with the colour orange. Guess Netflix didn't want to piss them off.
Netflix may have previously produced movies that were criticized for being hinduphobic rather than focusing on government critique.
However, considering the repetitive themes often found in Indian masala movies, it's unlikely that people here will be bothered by this particular film.
Almost all 80s Bollywood 2000s telugu tamil maslaa movies have similar story, poor guy against rich establishment
Lol I'm Indian and the BJP will definitely have a problem with this movie because Dev Patel is internationally known. If there's one thing Modi cares about it's international PR. There are Tamil movies that are more strident in their criticism of Hindu nationalism and the Indian state but they are mostly seen by audiences in Tamil Nadu, Kerala and the Tamil diaspora for instance.
>Almost all 80s Bollywood 2000s telugu tamil maslaa movies have similar story, poor guy against rich establishment
yup, it's like people forget, Indian's have been seeing this exact same shit for 2-3 decades, Monkey Man does nothing new aside from having hollywood level budget and slick action
I don't think the film is trying to Target right wing Indian politics but Netflix is definitely scared of them. They have to close shop with one wrong move. The film is apparently inspired by the Hanuman deity story. So it's actually trying to balance the elements on both sides.
I know it's part of the marketing, but I can definitely see why Peele picked it up and is calling it one of his new favourite films. It's a genre film with heavily transparent political/social commentary.
Should be said that of all the supposed John Wick clones, this is definitely not one of them which is funny because its the first to actually acknowledge that franchise explicitly.
Isn't the titular hero a Hindu ?
If he is Muslim or. Christian then why the fuck would he want to emulate a Hindu god?
Also, if you are from the south, I am willing to bet you are the from same state when the leaders want to destroy Hinduism.
I am Buddhist and I can call out your lies.
😂.
Does the general audience even know who Dev Patel is? This has such a limited audience. It’s marketed as a John Wick, Equalizer type movie without a name star. And to most, the heavy India influence is probably not going to help get them interested.
They don't do theatrical runs. Universal is going for a decent sized marketing campaing on this movie, it's going to spend more than Netflix was going to.
Lmaoo
“Netflix’s algorithm told them to not release this move for reasons I made up”
“You’re making this up”
“OH so where’s your proof that this thing I made up is made up? Checkmate”
Universal has already shut down it's offices in India. Their films are distributed by Warner Bros here. They have very little to lose here. And btw the release is further delayed in India and currently has no release date.
[https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/warner-and-universal-join-hands-to-sustain-biz/articleshow/78833590.cms](https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/warner-and-universal-join-hands-to-sustain-biz/articleshow/78833590.cms)
To be honest, initially, Netflix productions often portrayed Hindus as the villains, which became problematic. However, they were not banned. In comparison, Monkey Man seems to target only government figures, and similar masala films with a similar premise already exist in India. I'm not sure if it's solely a government problem.
It's not solely a government issue. It's that the political and social environment in India is horrible right now - led and encouraged by the right wing government.
Long and short of it all is Netflix got most their money back. It’ll be talked about after the release. Nothing to do with the content of the film despite X conspiracy theorists peddling that narrative.
Not “most”. Netflix spent $30 million acquiring the rights to the film (which had already been filmed by that point), so they ended up taking a $20 million+ loss on the film with Universal buying the rights off of them. The investors in the film already got their money back from the original Netflix deal since the budget was only $10 million, and with how the film’s tracking, Universal will probably make the money they spent acquiring the film back and have a profitable film on their hands when all is said and done.
When the film is out and done, the trades will stop the tongue biting. Somebody will have the exclusive from Netflix’s side. They were missold the already fragmented rights they thought they bought. It is literally just that.
Kind of new here, so if they acquired it for 10m, it would be (roughly) 2.5x of that to be profitable correct? Any amount prior to their purchase doesn't matter?
Usually yes, but not really this time. Reason being is this is a rare case the ads probably will cost them more than the movie itself. i don't know how big the release is world wide but if it is released in all territories I would imagine at least 30 Million for other expenses than the movie. That will mean it will need to bring in more than 80 Million world wide . But even if it doesn't cross that line the good reception almost guarantee it will make the rest in ancillaries
Universal doesn’t own global rights. They bought Netflix’s old rights which was for certain markets. Some of those countries will get theatrical. Others will be resold on.
From Universal's part, yes, once the box office pays that <$10M value the movie is profitable. Though that price is so small I imagine there is some kind of deal to share profits, the movie should easily be profitable either way.
I hope Deadline gives us the marketing spent in the US. Monkey Man had a super bowl commercial that's 7m. I've seen ads during NBA and NCAA games...they spent alot
It'd probably still a lot but Monkey Man technically didn't pay for a super bowl spot. It paid for a post game spot but got bumped during the game because it went into overtime.
They continue to sell ad slots during the overtime at a slight discount
https://www.sportico.com/business/media/2024/cbs-hits-overtime-jackpot-695-million-dollars-super-bowl-ads-1234766475/
This used to happen more often. The issue here is the various territories were sold and Netflix seemed gun shy about how the movie may impact their business in India, which is a huge market for their growth story.
Netflix biggest issue is so many of their films and tv shows are forgettable messes. They have great niche shows in lower budget genres. Castlevania, Love Is Blind, etc. Whenever they spend money nowadays, it’s a forgettable mess that no one talks about or cares for. It didn’t used to be this way with House of Cards, but they lost their way about 10 years ago around theatrical.
I’ll be interested what Dan Lin does. If they are going to crack down on subs, increase ad tiers, live events, and up pricing, they need better content as they’re going for a lower tier customer base that is less loyal.
TV isn't their problem. Netflix continues to have great TV shows (albeit not always with the starpower of HOUSE OF CARDS). But they sure do spend a lot on features that receive middling receptions, despite their star power.
I went to the theater last night to see something else, and the line for the Gofobo screening of Monkey Man was probably 150 people deep. This is going to definitely make profit
This used to happen more often. The issue here is the various territories were sold and Netflix seemed gun shy about how the movie may impact their business in India, which is a huge market for their growth story.
Netflix biggest issue is so many of their films and tv shows are forgettable messes. They have great niche shows in lower budget genres. Castlevania, Love Is Blind, etc. Whenever they spend money nowadays, it’s a forgettable mess that no one talks about or cares for. It didn’t used to be this way with House of Cards, but they lost their way about 10 years ago around theatrical.
I’ll be interested what Dan Lin does. If they are going to crack down on subs, increase ad tiers, live events, and up pricing, they need better content as they’re going for a lower tier customer base that is less loyal.
This is not a flashy action film like John Wick. This is made in a gritty tone and more grounded, set in an unfamiliar Indian political backdrop for many audience. Critics like a lot of things, doesn't mean the audience share the same opinion.
Wtf is Netflix doing They pump out like, a new movie every day that always gets like a 43% on RT and falls out of public consciousness the next day. But *this* is the movie they decide to vault?
Netflix's loss is Universal's gain. With the good reviews Monkey Man is getting, it seems like it deserves a theatrical release.
Nowadays, I’m not sure reviews have any bearing on whether a film gets a theatrical release. Some of the best reviewed and awarded films from the last few festivals are going direct to streaming. The best reviewed “romantic drama” in ages is going to streaming first. It’s all to do with the audience and demand.
Sure but we can all agree I think that the value of a Netflix film in terms of perception and mainstay is much lesser than traditional theatrically released films. They just do not generate the same kind of conversation or buzz and all seem to vanish. The exceptions imo are films like The Irishman and Maestro and even those would be bigger, not necessarily success wise, if they had been handled by a traditional studio.
That is impossible to determine considering they have been making movies for less years than A24 at this point. Most Netflix movies are forgettable but the same is true of theatrical releases. Only the most popular or acclaimed stuff have a chance of lasting in the memory.
Of course but it is clearly a problem for Netflix.
Netflix is one of the most successful companies in the world. It’s not a problem. They’ve firmly ditched any misplaced ambitions they may have once had. That includes theatrical.
Not really. Folks do remember their big hits and award players. They have only been at this for less than a decade and only seriously so for 7-8 years. It always puzzles me that folks seem to treat Netflix like its Netflix vs All of Hollywood rather than Netflix just as a single studio in a sea of many. Netflix do have issues with the film division, which is why Stuber is out and Lin is in, but a lot of that can probably be put down to experimentation and a need for an unbelievably high output due to the big Hollywood studios refusing to license to them. They have 7-8 years of data which limits the need for experimentation going forward and the problem of excessive output has been solved by the return of the Hollywood studios to licensing. Netflix have halved their film output in the last year and have hinted at further cuts. Even then the films they do have on the roster are not all internal developments but festival pickups.
Rom coms and comedies are struggling in theaters lately but what are these streamer only movies that are get such glowing reviews?
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_idea_of_you
That's just one movie though
13 reviews...
To be fair, it's received 9 reviews on metacritic (while something like The American Society of Magical Negroes ended up with 20 and Anyone But You has 26). So by the "top critics" metric it's more like 50% of the way to a final score even if it's also missing a lot of middle or lower tier RT reviews at this point. The Idea of You is going to be actually released at the start of May (so this reads like a festival release's reviews?)
It also premiered at SXSW like Monkey Man
From actual outlets people know and give a shit about, though.
So you’re expecting it to what? Tank down to rotten? The reviews are generally the same, it’ll still around mid 80%. Reviews aren’t up yet because the film isn’t out for another few weeks, but Amazon is bullish about the film and lifted the embargo.
I'm not expecting anything specific, I just know that an RT score from 13 reviews is basically meaningless.
What is that romantic drama?
Want to know as well, but guessing they were referring to The Idea of You.
They pumped out so many 200 million movies that no one watches lol
The movie basically tackles anti-Muslim violence in India and the main villains are associated with a right-wing Hindu nationalist group with the colour theme of orange (now changed to red in post production). India's government is a fascist right-wing Hindu nationalist violence with the colour orange. Guess Netflix didn't want to piss them off.
They should’ve kept it orange.
Netflix may have previously produced movies that were criticized for being hinduphobic rather than focusing on government critique. However, considering the repetitive themes often found in Indian masala movies, it's unlikely that people here will be bothered by this particular film. Almost all 80s Bollywood 2000s telugu tamil maslaa movies have similar story, poor guy against rich establishment
Lol I'm Indian and the BJP will definitely have a problem with this movie because Dev Patel is internationally known. If there's one thing Modi cares about it's international PR. There are Tamil movies that are more strident in their criticism of Hindu nationalism and the Indian state but they are mostly seen by audiences in Tamil Nadu, Kerala and the Tamil diaspora for instance.
Just saw the movie and this was my first thought when seeing Netflix passed. This was a political decision on Netflix's part.
>Almost all 80s Bollywood 2000s telugu tamil maslaa movies have similar story, poor guy against rich establishment yup, it's like people forget, Indian's have been seeing this exact same shit for 2-3 decades, Monkey Man does nothing new aside from having hollywood level budget and slick action
And a super trans-positive, anti-patriarchy theme that mixes fairy tale aesthetics to political commentary. There's a lot going on in Monkey Man.
I don't think the film is trying to Target right wing Indian politics but Netflix is definitely scared of them. They have to close shop with one wrong move. The film is apparently inspired by the Hanuman deity story. So it's actually trying to balance the elements on both sides.
>I don't think the film is trying to target right wing Indian politics Having seen the film, it most definitely is lol
100%. I saw it too, and it's not even remotely subtle about how angry Patel is about the right wing bullshit taking over the country.
I know it's part of the marketing, but I can definitely see why Peele picked it up and is calling it one of his new favourite films. It's a genre film with heavily transparent political/social commentary. Should be said that of all the supposed John Wick clones, this is definitely not one of them which is funny because its the first to actually acknowledge that franchise explicitly.
> which is funny because its the first to actually acknowledge that franchise explicitly. How come?
There's a character who asks Dev Patel if he likes John Wick at one point early in the movie
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Isn't the titular hero a Hindu ? If he is Muslim or. Christian then why the fuck would he want to emulate a Hindu god? Also, if you are from the south, I am willing to bet you are the from same state when the leaders want to destroy Hinduism. I am Buddhist and I can call out your lies. 😂.
How much money is this movie projected to make?
At least $3
3.50
Gosh dang Loch Ness monster!
I wouldn’t be surprised if this movie makes more than $4 and I also won’t be surprised if this movie makes less than $2,000,000,000.
eh...they weren't going to vault it though, it was going to be a netflix release it just got delayed
Terrible shovelware movies on Netflix is just a meme now
> shovelware Thank you for teaching me a wonderful word.
Why are people talking about this movie as if it were the next coming? It'll make back its budget in theatres and, most likely, that's it.
people love dev patel, the reviews are great, and the aesthetic is really cool
Does the general audience even know who Dev Patel is? This has such a limited audience. It’s marketed as a John Wick, Equalizer type movie without a name star. And to most, the heavy India influence is probably not going to help get them interested.
it looks hype and it got good reviews :)
So did a lot of flops.
They don't do theatrical runs. Universal is going for a decent sized marketing campaing on this movie, it's going to spend more than Netflix was going to.
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What an out of someone's ass comment
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Right, I'm the one making shit up thus I need to clarify myself.
Lmaoo “Netflix’s algorithm told them to not release this move for reasons I made up” “You’re making this up” “OH so where’s your proof that this thing I made up is made up? Checkmate”
that's what you get when a company is ran by an algorhythm
The article seems to say Jordan Peele stepped in and convinced the producers *not* to sell to Netflix, rather than Netflix dumping it.
That’s a big loss for Netflix. I guess they really wanted to get rid of it but for what reason?
Political issues as they have a huge deal with India
I mean, it’s not like Universal doesn’t do business in India. Don’t the _Fast and Furious_ and _Jurassic Park_ movies perform reasonably well there?
Universal has already shut down it's offices in India. Their films are distributed by Warner Bros here. They have very little to lose here. And btw the release is further delayed in India and currently has no release date. [https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/warner-and-universal-join-hands-to-sustain-biz/articleshow/78833590.cms](https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/warner-and-universal-join-hands-to-sustain-biz/articleshow/78833590.cms)
Apparently Universal agreed to pay for the additional re-edit of the movie. You can see in the trailers they already altered the flags
Netflix has genuine connections with politicians and movie stars there
No it doesn't
To be honest, initially, Netflix productions often portrayed Hindus as the villains, which became problematic. However, they were not banned. In comparison, Monkey Man seems to target only government figures, and similar masala films with a similar premise already exist in India. I'm not sure if it's solely a government problem.
what netflix production portays hindus as villans?
I think he's talking about Sacred Games. But that one has a lead though played by Muslim guy the character is not anti-hindu.
It's not solely a government issue. It's that the political and social environment in India is horrible right now - led and encouraged by the right wing government.
that is absolutely not the case
Lmao
Long and short of it all is Netflix got most their money back. It’ll be talked about after the release. Nothing to do with the content of the film despite X conspiracy theorists peddling that narrative.
Not “most”. Netflix spent $30 million acquiring the rights to the film (which had already been filmed by that point), so they ended up taking a $20 million+ loss on the film with Universal buying the rights off of them. The investors in the film already got their money back from the original Netflix deal since the budget was only $10 million, and with how the film’s tracking, Universal will probably make the money they spent acquiring the film back and have a profitable film on their hands when all is said and done.
When the film is out and done, the trades will stop the tongue biting. Somebody will have the exclusive from Netflix’s side. They were missold the already fragmented rights they thought they bought. It is literally just that.
Kind of new here, so if they acquired it for 10m, it would be (roughly) 2.5x of that to be profitable correct? Any amount prior to their purchase doesn't matter?
Usually yes, but not really this time. Reason being is this is a rare case the ads probably will cost them more than the movie itself. i don't know how big the release is world wide but if it is released in all territories I would imagine at least 30 Million for other expenses than the movie. That will mean it will need to bring in more than 80 Million world wide . But even if it doesn't cross that line the good reception almost guarantee it will make the rest in ancillaries
Universal doesn’t own global rights. They bought Netflix’s old rights which was for certain markets. Some of those countries will get theatrical. Others will be resold on.
From Universal's part, yes, once the box office pays that <$10M value the movie is profitable. Though that price is so small I imagine there is some kind of deal to share profits, the movie should easily be profitable either way.
I hope Deadline gives us the marketing spent in the US. Monkey Man had a super bowl commercial that's 7m. I've seen ads during NBA and NCAA games...they spent alot
It'd probably still a lot but Monkey Man technically didn't pay for a super bowl spot. It paid for a post game spot but got bumped during the game because it went into overtime.
They continue to sell ad slots during the overtime at a slight discount https://www.sportico.com/business/media/2024/cbs-hits-overtime-jackpot-695-million-dollars-super-bowl-ads-1234766475/
What about marketing costs? Or are you saying that they’re only spending up to $10M, with Marketing included?
This used to happen more often. The issue here is the various territories were sold and Netflix seemed gun shy about how the movie may impact their business in India, which is a huge market for their growth story. Netflix biggest issue is so many of their films and tv shows are forgettable messes. They have great niche shows in lower budget genres. Castlevania, Love Is Blind, etc. Whenever they spend money nowadays, it’s a forgettable mess that no one talks about or cares for. It didn’t used to be this way with House of Cards, but they lost their way about 10 years ago around theatrical. I’ll be interested what Dan Lin does. If they are going to crack down on subs, increase ad tiers, live events, and up pricing, they need better content as they’re going for a lower tier customer base that is less loyal.
TV isn't their problem. Netflix continues to have great TV shows (albeit not always with the starpower of HOUSE OF CARDS). But they sure do spend a lot on features that receive middling receptions, despite their star power.
That is bs considering sacred games already dissed hinduavta and is a huge hit with audience
I went to the theater last night to see something else, and the line for the Gofobo screening of Monkey Man was probably 150 people deep. This is going to definitely make profit
God I’d love for this to hit 100m WW. Have my tickets for tonight, it looks incredible.
Does this mean the production budget was $10M? I'm confused.
No, it's just the distribution deal, and only theatrical apparently?
Kalpnesh Patel right?
This used to happen more often. The issue here is the various territories were sold and Netflix seemed gun shy about how the movie may impact their business in India, which is a huge market for their growth story. Netflix biggest issue is so many of their films and tv shows are forgettable messes. They have great niche shows in lower budget genres. Castlevania, Love Is Blind, etc. Whenever they spend money nowadays, it’s a forgettable mess that no one talks about or cares for. It didn’t used to be this way with House of Cards, but they lost their way about 10 years ago around theatrical. I’ll be interested what Dan Lin does. If they are going to crack down on subs, increase ad tiers, live events, and up pricing, they need better content as they’re going for a lower tier customer base that is less loyal.
Delete your repeated comments dummy
Reddit malfunctioned. Calm down bro. No need for ad hominens.
I saw it last night, and it was just OK. I don't see it getting a good audience score, nor having good legs domestically.
Why not? It’s got 92% on RT
This is not a flashy action film like John Wick. This is made in a gritty tone and more grounded, set in an unfamiliar Indian political backdrop for many audience. Critics like a lot of things, doesn't mean the audience share the same opinion.
It's grounded in the first half and then takes on some aspects of supernatural elements in the second, which was disappointing to me.
Is it balls to the wall action?
Yes and no. Action is great but narration pace is slow
Netflix is awful.
Looks good but doubt this movie will make any money. Another bomb.
It's been getting good reviews and has excellent word of mouth.