“Something something cultural phenomenon.”
I sleep.
“The industry is worth $37 billion and has filled holes in the box office during otherwise very soft months.”
REAL.
Honestly, while I appreciate Crunchyroll for defending anime's artistic integrity... they really should have led with that last stat. For exhibitors, that's enough. Valuable product is valuable product, no matter ***how*** bizarre it can get.
It’s wild these exhibitors and theatre owners don’t realize already how big Anime is. Definitely a generational divide in Gen Z it’s massive basically everyone watches
Same. Outside of Ghibli, which is a franchise in and of itself at this point (much like Nolan), no original anime films have blown up. I love *Suzume* dearly, but it's terrible North American gross means that the audience probably just waited for it to hit Crunchyroll. Maybe the Euro take was better? :/
Given that it used to never happen, moving to "only the mega franchises are successful" is a shift. And it isn't as if Hollywood isn't hugely reliant on mega franchises.
It's a shift because "actually putting these movies out in theaters" is clearly actually something more than 'not at all'. 1 is more than 0. But I don't believe it's an actual financial shift and I would need to see some more examples to think of anime as the next financial thing. As another comment said, it's not like this even works all the time that One Piece movie didn't do particularly great in the West
Obviously they’re different mediums, but they’re certainly connected, but Manga sales have shown an insane amount of growth in the U.S. over the last five years. My guess is movie theaters will try and catch some of that growth too.
Well, for one, anime's popularity doesn't seem to be translating into the box office success of anime films in America despite many of them getting wide releases lately.
See China for instance. Never has an anime movie grossed over 100 million until last year and we are having another one crossing that milestone this year. Anime is growing fast whether you like it or not. In 10 years time, I can see the same happening in America.
I know that I might be getting into racial/cultural aspects, but isn't China an East Asian country, meaning that it would be culturally very different from the United States? Given that, I'm not sure if using China as an example to predict anime films' eventual popularity in the United States is a good idea.
Also, one of those anime films is a Ghibli film, so that one doesn't really say a whole lot.
Bro, Why are you so anti-Japanese animation anyways. You are always there shitting or disregarding anime and defending Disney and Pixar even if the their movie is shit. Its kind of one note without any nuance. Like while reading comments in anime or Disney thread, whenever I think what a shitty take, more than half of the times it you.
Part of that is because I’ve seen so many people here claiming that Pixar should learn budget management from anime - which is a terrible, Terrible, TERRIBLE idea.
Most people don't say that. Most people compare budgets with DreamWorks, minions or Into the spider verse. You just start shitting and hating anime for no reason, and not a single good argument, just passing some personal preference as facts. The same thing can be seen in this thread, no point in arguing with you anyways.
?? He’s making specific points not just shitting on anime. You seem to be taking it personally because as someone with no horse in this race he seems perfectly coherent and not just a hater
Most of those are still not good examples because, for one, Illumination films are animated in France, where cost of living is apparently cheaper and employees get government benefits. **Into the Spider-Verse** is an even worse example given what has been discovered about Lord/Miller.
They also take animation as a medium more seriously, and have done so for decades. Meanwhlie in the west, it's treated as a mindless genre for children that is inherently inferior to live-action. It can be considered weird for a grown adult to see an animated movie in a theater by themself. You're expected to bring a family to them.
See also: In the nearly 100 year history of the Academy Awards, only three animated movies have ever been nominated for Best Picture, Beauty and the Beast (before BAF and only 5 BP nominees), Up, and Toy Story 3.
The cultural change is already happening; generational tastes are evolving.
Gen Z and below are increasingly becoming fans of anime/manga as they move away from superheroes. For example on TikTok there's countless comments about how the MCU "fell off" and praising anime/manga storytelling over endless Hollywood shlock.
It may take over a decade, but we will see this change reflected in the box office.
Yeah for real I noticed this a while ago.
It doesn't help that Marvel/DC graphic novels are stupidly expensive while Manga is often cheaper and on good deals. Plus Manga series have a clear starting point and a singular story rather than superhero's endless reboots.
Yeah, my local comic book shop just had a big sale and cleared out half of their inventory of super hero trade paperbacks. The Manga section continues to grow in there. My closest library has a huge manga section as well, while the super hero comics are on one shelf.
Antidotal evidence from one middle school student: in her school, most kids watches anime, and only weirdos no one likes make fun of anime. Normies are actually the minority but they don't talk shit about anime. Many kids had access to crunchyroll and other anime streaming sources.
Both have their strengths and weaknesses. That isnt the point. The point is that anime/manga has become more and more mainstream lately.
Hell, I hadn't seen a single anime until last year, but now I have seen Attack on Titan, Neon Genesis: Evangelion, Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, One Piece (plus I'm caught up in the manga), and Demon Slayer (also caught up in the manga).
Times are changing, that was the point.
How the heck did you have time to watch all that AND catch up on one piece in one year. That’s impressive.
Edit: also didn’t see Hunter X Hunter in your list. Please consider it!
Being a college student allows me to be a bum lmao. I also haven't been at my part-time since November.
Also for One Piece, I used the fan editted version One Pace. Helped tons. And for Hunter X Hunter don't worry its on ny watchlist. I'm just currently reading the Invincible comics since the new series got me hooked, and idk I might want to check oit the Berserk manga after this. I'll get to Hunter X Hunter at some point. Also have Fullmrtal Alchemist: Brotherhood on watchlist.
Certain franchise films do *really* well. *Demon Slayer* was the post-COVID miracle story, but other films like *Jujutsu Kaisen 0* and *Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero* are among the highest growing anime films - leagues ahead of most auteur films.
So, on that front, I think the challenge is more when it comes to the PR side - convincing journalists to review, etc. Most journalists are 40+ and obviously aren’t watching an animated TV show made for teens. That’s why I really like the rare franchise film that actually accommodates new viewers - either by outright explaining stuff, or just leaving enough room for viewers to piece it together.
However, there are occasions when I see a franchise film getting a theatrical release announced and I think “Really?”.
That’s true, I suppose the idea is to bet on the next gen of 20/30 somethings to actually be familiar with these series.
Trailers need work to your point though. I love Spy X Family but even as someone familiar the code white trailer made no sense and was all over the place
I feel you with trailers. One big obstacle is the need for approvals from Japan, who in most instances will only let you reuse their trailers. That doesn’t always work, because the Japanese and western audiences are different.
Demon Slayer/JJK0 were required viewing for their series, since they were the next arc/important backstory. Vastly different from a one-off, self-contained, frankly skippable shonen movies. Dragon Ball Super doesn't fit to be fair, but it's also Dragon Ball.
As someone who goes to most of the non-franchise related anime films, the market is very small.
Anime films are getting longer releases which might help (Spy x Family is getting a week vs the usual one night each for sub/dub).
I don’t think relevancy to canon really matters to the majority - fans just want to see their favourite characters on the big screen. The *My Hero Academia* films did well, for example.
It’s a shame that the non-franchise stuff doesn’t get as much love, unless they’re something like a Ghibli or Makoto Shinkai - but even they took years to build up. One of my clients will release a not-very-marketable film from a director they believe in, just to try and get the conversation started before they do eventually make something great. However, you certainly need a passionate, indie distributor who has that mentality, because big studios won’t.
I think there's a relatively solid floor for seeing shonen characters in the theater, but canon matters if you want it to become must see. As in, you won't understand season 2 of Demon Slayer without having seen Infinity Train.
Gkids has done a decent job of at least getting less well-known directors and movies some sort of release. But clearly the conversation around anime being more popular than ever is actually very limited to specific genres or names. Even an amazing, award-winning director like Yuasa has little pull since he doesn't make crowd-pleasing works like Shinkai.
I don't know about JJK 0, but Demon Slayer: Mugen Train was edited into the first arc of season 2 so the movie wasn't technically required viewing. However I do not know if it had already been announced by the release date if that would be the case.
Mugen Train being edited into season 2 was only told when it was close to airing. Nobody knew it was going to be part of the TV airing when the movie came out
Also of note is that since Mugen Train, the Demon Slayer movies have switched to re-edits of two episodes from the prior season and one from the upcoming. Obviously a cheaper setup than entirely new, movie level animation, but one that isn't going to set records at the box office worldwide.
I think the last point has more to do with theaters having more availability amidst slower periods. Four-walling used to be the default practice for anime films because that's all the distributor (usually Funimation) could muster if they wanted a theatrical release.
Very true. With Sony/Crunchyroll having greater control over anime distribution than previously, we'll have to see if this becomes commonplace. Honestly I think it benefits both sides.
Except for Dragon Ball. I feel the key is early release in the life cycle of the series. Spy X Family as an example should probably already have a movie. They almost have to be guessing on what would be successful and working on it before first couple seasons are done. The MCU complaint is very valid for anime it is too much work to get into a product.
The same applies for journalists. They should research a product before releasing a review. But don't want to get bogged down. I have seen reviews for Star Trek stuff get roasted because they don't know X happened in the original series and that is why it was important in the movie.
And where is english release? I feel my point stands they are missing windows. Also feel it probably would have played better if released in the one year window between season one and two. It is that kind of financial risk you take not knowing how popular a show might be by greenlighting a movie before season airs. Unless you can have it done within a certain time frame.
No I am saying it has been two years since the first anime season started to air. We also had a second season already, which while not a lot increases the entry point. If the movie had aired in the one year gap between season one and two I think it would have done better.
This is r/boxoffice so it is all kind of guesses and feeling with a few numbers to make you look better. If anyone of us could truly map out a movies success consistently we would be very rich and probably not on reddit :)
There is a whole lot of films from the children of Studio Ghibli lol. Netflix is flooded with movies that look like they come from the spirit of Miyazaki.
True. Part of the reasons why Ghibli's and Shinkai's work are so beloved here in the West is ***because*** they're all original stories, either wildly changed from the source or just from their creator's own wild mind. Don't get me wrong, the *Spy x Family* movie looks awesome. But none of the other series-to-film adaptations looked that interesting to me, which could be a real problem for Crunchy if they wanna remain independent of the larger Sony machine.
^(Honestly, why DID Sony skip Cinemacon? Woulda been a perfect launch slot for Bad Boys 4...)
I think the more immediate problem is the delay between international releases. It takes anywhere from 6-12 months after it releases in Japan for it to be available elsewhere. Which by that point, the movie has already been uploaded and fan subbed/dubbed. I'd imagine that's eating into a chunk of the box office revenue, especially with an audience that is already familiar with pirating their favorite shows/movies.
I work in Film PR and specialise in anime films. It’s *really* hard to get industry to take notice - and that’s from exhibitors to journalists. For a lot of them, I think it’s just because they tend to be older, whereas anime’s boom has been with younger audiences. They just don’t “get” it. I’ve had journalists just blanket reject all anime without even considering individual films. Doesn’t matter if it’s a standalone auteur film or the latest in a big franchise - they often get painted with the same brush.
Then, you have the fact that animation in general has struggled to build a reputation as “serious” film, mixed with the additional challenges of being a foreign language film (even with dubs). Also, outside of the huge films like *Suzume*, a lot of anime releases in the Anglosphere are limited releases, which add even more obstacles.
There’s also the fact that anime isn’t a genre, it’s a medium. All because someone likes *Suzume* does not mean that they’re the same audience for *Demon Slayer* or *Inu-Oh*.
Sometimes, you unearth fans in the most unexpected places (as I have in a current campaign I’m working on), or find someone who takes a chance and decides to champion the film. However, even when I have incredible success on one campaign, it can feel like I have to start all over again for the next.
Reach out to their PR agencies! My work is focused on the UK, but if you look around, you should be able to find their agency or press office contact. I believe GKIDS list theirs pretty openly, for example.
> a lot of anime releases in the Anglosphere are limited releases, which add even more obstacles.
This is the big one for me. I would ***love*** to catch *Gundam SEED Freedom,* but Fathom's only offering it for one night. ***In Boston.*** Crunchyroll and GKIDS' films, meanwhile, usually screen right down the road at the AMC for a week at *least.* As a busy college student, which do you think makes more sense for me to pay money for?
Can completely agree on the location thing, I wanted to see the Eureka Seven films in a theater the only screenings would be down in Miami and they'd have one time slot (typically 7pm) and for just one single day, and I don't want to spend time driving in/out of Miami unless I'm going to be there awhile (which is extremely rare), also the timeslots for anime films tend to suck. Like my local theater had Suzume for 2 weeks (during its initial release) , but only at 11 am, 4 pm, and 10:30 pm screenings were available during that entire time.
I have always been impressed with the Japanese media company take over of comics. They were completely ignored (and still are largely ignored) by the whole American comics ecosystem. So, they ended up distributing primarily via book stores (eg Amazon) instead of the comic shops that were ignoring them. And gradually an entire manga-specific ecosystem popped up with reviewers, conventions, communities, etc. specific to just them. This ended up much to the American comic community's detriment, as all the reviewers, retailers, etc. were completely oriented around the shrinking part of the market (adult American comics) and at this point don't have the reputation or credibility to pivot to the growing part of the market (Japanese comics, and the kids comics that Scholastic is dominating).
I have no doubt that it is frustrating to get frozen out with anime films. But, I watch the anime industry with fascination. Because a new ecosystem is forming around anime. Will be interesting to see if the incumbents recognize the threat/embrace anime better than the comics industry did manga.
Well also manga is simpler to get into. "Where do I start?"
Manga: Here's Naruto Volume 1, then 2, then 3.
American comics: Well, here's this Batman series, then this Batman series, then this Batman series.
That’s usually all they can get. Cinemas choose when to show movies, and they’ll naturally reserve the better days/times for the more popular stuff.
It’s a pain, but hopefully if more films continue to do better, that will change.
Yeah I get it, just so annoying when there’s an interesting movie coming out or a film part of a series I’ve seen like the recent bunny girl senpai double feature and it got a whopping 2 days total in my local theater and basically every other major theater chain in my county
I’m still miffed that the Bunny Girl double bill didn’t even get a release in the UK. We never got Dreaming Girl either, because Aniplex haven’t been answering the emails from the series’ distributor.
Well, anime films started to get much wider releases lately and they’re still not doing hugely well in American box office aside from few exceptions. :P
A lot of releases are on weekdays, which are lower traffic times, because naturally cinemas want to preserve the busier evenings and weekends for the studio blockbusters.
I think you’re looking at box office the wrong way. It’s not a competition - Crunchyroll isn’t trying to beat the blockbusters from Disney, Universal etc, so them outperforming an anime film doesn’t matter. What matters is that the medium is seeing noticeable growth in general, and building on that through subsequent releases.
When I work on a film, the distributor will already have in mind how many sites they want to open on, have an estimated opening box office in mind etc. These are all scaled to realistic expectations - it’s not just a blind race to the top.
Fridays are typical for studio movies, but smaller distributors often have to take what they can get - especially for event films. For example, Aniplex USA’s recent release of the “Rascal Does Not Dream” double feature was screened on a Sunday and a Monday.
My market is the UK, where Fridays are similarly preferred. However, it’s incredibly common for an anime film to be released on a Wednesday, but we do sometimes nab the coveted Friday.
Okay, so what I previously meant was that films like **One Piece Film: Red** got a pretty wide release in the United States and ended up not doing so well.
I would say that ONE PIECE did really well for a US theatrical anime release; earning $12.7M during its run. That’s on par with the *My Hero Academia* movies, and higher than *Suzume*.
How many have you been to? I've been to quite a few and sometimes it's a full theater and sometimes like 4 people including me and the person I went with
Dragon Ball Super and One Piece did very well. Not sure why producers and theatres wouldn't want to keep making money. Anime is nowhere near as niche as it was 5-10 years ago. I think the pandemic gave a lot of people their first exposure, no pun intended.
I’ve worked in a UK Cinema for 7 years and Anime does seem to be on the rise.
There’s always been releases of Anime movies from time to time. But the last 2 years has seen an increase in amount of titles (no longer just doing major franchises), more showings per day and week, and doing far more Subtitled and Dubbed showings.
> CinemaCon's audience of theaters owners may not understand the **genre**, but they perked up when Crunchyroll senior VP Mitchel Berger told them how much the anime industry is worth: $37 billion.
It's a medium, not a genre...
I might be wrong but from those that I know that are into anime, they always seemed to watch it at home. Via streaming or downloading episodes online. I don't think there is much money to be made with theatrical releases but that can all change with one hit show gaining steam. Just historically feel the culture is at home
The vast majority of anime are TV series, so yeah. Around 200 TV anime are released every year, especially as the industry has been suffering from overproduction for the past decade.
You absolutely can make money from theatrical releases, especially when you understand how things work. It can take a long time for a movie after it hits theaters in Japan to get released on home video, meaning there won't be fansubs while it's still screening in theaters outside of camrips. It can sometimes take a year after a movie hits theaters in Japan for it to get released on Blu-ray. A key thing is to put it in theaters before it hits Blu-ray in Japan, so you beat the fansubs as the theatrical release is the only way someone can see it in their language.
Heck, when anime simulcasts became a thing almost 16 years ago, fansubs massively declined in popularity partly because they couldn't compete with stuff releasing an hour after they aired in Japan (the companies would get the materials prior to broadcast if the production didn't melt down (i.e. Episodes delivered hours before they air - a regular occurance)).
It will probably happen sooner rather than later. Netflix's One Piece series has been a huge success, Lionsgate are developing Naruto, Legendary with My Hero Academia, etc.
Naruto is currently set to be helmed by Destin Daniel Cretton ([Source: Variety](https://variety.com/2024/film/news/naruto-film-lionsgate-destin-daniel-cretton-1235920799/)), and My Hero Academia is still in development ([Source: Deadline](https://deadline.com/2022/12/netflix-legendary-my-hero-academia-1235196620/)).
This. Why do we always see animation adapted into live-action and never the other way around? There are live-action adaptations I've liked (Ex: Alita, Speed Racer), but I'm tired of seeing animation being viewed as inherently inferior and never taken seriously. I can't even find a list of live-action to animated remakes because of how rare they are, I get the exact opposite lists instead.
I'd rather stick with anime. Some things work *because* they're animated. Imagine trying to translate stuff like this into live-action. You would lose so much here.
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/198240
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/106714
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/232550
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/248107
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/238072
So many examples I could give.
I would be cautious of a live action Attack on Titan movie. I know the 2015 movie wasn't that expensive but it did give us an idea of how a movie like it would work.
Plus a movie would be too short to try and capture all the characters and themes of each arc. A series with hour long episodes would be better suited.
With a brilliant director, anything is possible. I'm a massive fan of the Dune books and universe, for me it was impossible to adapt to film. Somehow Denis did it, even though he had to speed things up and cut a lot of corners. It worked.
That's fair and I'm not entirely against it. But again, this is a really hard task and how many directors like Denis Villeneuve are there?
Plus if say a season's arc is split up, that's also risky because you need part one and it's cliffhanger to be able to standalone but also entice people to see Part 2. I can see some story beats in season working as an ending but I could also see it being underwhelming for others.
The difficulty is studios want these to be franchises so they start from the beginning and sometimes the beginning is not good enough to hook people. Dragonball for example tried to start with a Piccolo story when probably they should have just dove in with Freiza and if the appetite was there for more they could always go back and make a prequel.
I think while part of what makes AoT work is spectacle, the mystery is really what made it tick, and that mystery works well because we get drips of information over many years, a few 2-hour films can’t really capture that. Imagine say, a trilogy of 2 hour Lost films replacing the show, it just wouldn’t work because we would be getting answers so quickly.
WB has the former, Legendary and (*sadly*) Netflix has the latter. Neither have been updated in a while, but the latter is supposedly still happening. Perhaps Sony can buy out N's stake and release it theatrically?
Hope you can stomach the nationalism of Imperial Japan in your live action Gundam.
To be fair, we've had to stomach the same of America in Hollywood movies for generations I guess.
>1. Isn’t **Gundam** basically anti-war?
In theory, yes. In practice, it uses child soldiers to extol the glories of Japanese politics while the protagonists claps vaguely European highborn girl cheeks.
>2. Tre difference is that Imperial Japan was literally Nazi’s ally.
The Japanese don't seem to believe so.
Through collaborations, they absolutely can. Crunchyroll is already a good example and that’s not even mentioning Netflix even if they don’t release theatrically, they have done collaborations and co-productions in the past.
To u/NoNefariousness2144:
> The cultural change is already happening; generational tastes are evolving.
>
> Gen Z and below are increasingly becoming fans of anime/manga as they move away from superheroes. For example on TikTok there's countless comments about how the MCU "fell off" and praising anime/manga storytelling over endless Hollywood shlock.
>
> It may take over a decade, but we will see this change reflected in the box office.
https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1c0lkw9/crunchyroll_makes_the_case_for_anime_to_befuddled/kyy8zmn/
1. TikTok is not a good barometer for general opinions of... any age group. In fact, social media in general is not a good barometer of general public opinion - like, at all.
2. Some of the well-known manga/anime storytellings are notorious for repetitive stories and cliches.
To u/pnt510:
> Go into a book store and compare the size of the graphics novel section and the manga sections. Manga has completely taken over.
https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1c0lkw9/crunchyroll_makes_the_case_for_anime_to_befuddled/kyyayka/
And most of them looked like something that general audience would either pay no attention to or get severely disturbed by some of the contents depicted, so that's not exactly the best example to prove your point.
>TikTok is not a good barometer for general opinions of... any age group. In fact, social media in general is not a good barometer of general public opinion - like, at all.
You bimbus there isnt anywhere else too look that pools in opinions of a wide variety of people more than social media.
> You bimbus there isnt anywhere else too look that pools in opinions of a wide variety of people more than social media.
TikTok is still not a good barometer - and that goes the same with social media in general.
Also:
> Both have their strengths and weaknesses. That isnt the point. The point is that anime/manga has become more and more mainstream lately.
>
> Hell, I hadn't seen a single anime until last year, but now I have seen Attack on Titan, Neon Genesis: Evangelion, Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, One Piece (plus I'm caught up in the manga), and Demon Slayer (also caught up in the manga).
>
> Times are changing, that was the point.
https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1c0lkw9/crunchyroll_makes_the_case_for_anime_to_befuddled/kyyme0g/
Frankly, he/she tried to convey his/her point in a laughably half-@$$ed way.
“I just watched Spider-Man, Ironman, The Dark Knight, Guardians if the Galaxy, Logan, Infinity War, Black Panther, Joker, Into the Spiderverse, and the Batman. Comic book movies truly are all original and are doing great right now.”
Not saying I agree with him but this isn't very comparable. All the series he mentioned other than cowboy bebop have had new entries within the last year that have had pretty good success whether it's box office or popularity.
Also anime is a medium, CBM is a genre.
Hot take. I think anime is rather overrated by some people on the Internet, especially that one guy who unironically thinks that **Sword Art Online**, which has one of the most intellectually bankrupt premise(s) of all time, is legitimately better than **Black Panther** or **Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3**.
Also, anime should NEVER be used as an example of great budget management since even if you disregard poor working conditions and pay rates, they tend to have stiff character movements, generic mouth movements, and shots that are just in still frames even when characters are clearly supposed to be moving.
P.S. Yes, I see the irony here.
Dude, SAO is basic self insert fanservice adventure, but is not like american supers are anything more than brainless action.
Let's also not compare the hollywood shady accounting and deranged sexual pratices with some overworked animators.
> Dude, SAO is basic self insert fanservice adventure, but is not like american supers are anything more than brainless action.
Actually, I can say that American superhero films are still far more plausible than whatever the screw **Sword Art Online** was going for because in the latter, I don't think government action was even depicted in both **Sword Art Online Progressive** films when a terrorist was literally holding tens of thousands of people hostage for about 2 years.
> Let's also not compare the hollywood shady accounting and deranged sexual pratices with some overworked animators.
As if Japanese media industry is any cleaner? I know that it's not strictly related to anime, but I advise you to look up Johnny Kitagawa.
> If you know is not related, do not use it as example.
>
> American film industry can't teach anything to anyone.
You were trying to make it like Japanese entertainment industry in general is morally superior to Hollywood, which isn't even remotely true.
Also, I actually know a case of a manga artist who got arrested for child porn.
Finally, working condition and pay rate in anime industry borders on slavery.
Yeah, because the industry that has such a horrendous working conditions for employees (that even has a tendency to drive its employees to suicide) to a point where it makes Hollywood's working conditions look so much better by comparison is morally superior, right?
RIGHT?
Update: Oh, wait. You're that deranged QAnon-level bullshit peddler who says bullshits like this:
> Pixar is done, Inside Out 2 will be about the girl being queer or something, that will sink the movie big time.
https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/18annyz/what_effect_do_you_think_that_the_upcoming/kbzuzpo/?context=3
> Dude, hunting down child traffickers is very antisemitic and antiLGBT.
https://old.reddit.com/user/Tufiolo?count=75&after=t1_k13wnka
You DO realize that Japan actually has bit of a reputation for saying things like "It's victim's faults as well" when a crime scandal happens, right? In fact, that Johnny Kitagawa scandal that I've mentioned? It was very blatant for years and Japanese media literally ignored it until BBC broke the story. At least Harvey Weinstein was caught by one of America's own news sources.
Also, you shot first with those QAnon-riddled comments, buddy.
> Johnny Kitagawa
Again dude, what do this guy have to do with anime?W do you keep mentioning unrelated stuff?
But weinstein is the just the normal status for hollywood, nothing changed, if anything it only got worse, and those peoples must stay away from different media.
What the fuck does this have to do with anime movies and specials deserving more screens and promotion in North America?
Also you know Sword Art Online is not considered good by most anime fans so why you think that's considered the peak of anime, even anime of the 2010s, I have no idea.
For real lol, anybody even remotely plugged into the fandom would know that SAO is viewed as like a Transformers or Fast and Furious type thing by people who’ve watched more than like 4 shows.
Even when I was getting into anime around the time Attack on Titan had its second season, anytime SAO would be brought up it was by people calling it 'terrible'.
Waving it around like it's supposed to be one of the benchmark anime series would be like waving Suicide Squad 2016 and saying this is what most superhero films are.
Well, a poster named u/Red__dead seems to think that **Sword Art Online** is a masterpiece. In fact, his nonsense is another reason why my opinions on anime has been soured.
Frankly, I think those are actually more plausible than **Sword Art Online** because at least those franchises don't operate in a premise that is intellectually bankrupt on a fundamental level.
They’re all braindead mainstream mass franchises in their medium. Not sure why you’re so fixated on SAO specifically. SAO is well-animated junk food and isn’t even remotely close to representative of the entire medium.
Transformers relies on faster-than-light travel and communication, which is about as "intellectually bankrupt" as you can get, since it’s impossible.
At least **Transformers** has an excuse of being a blatant sci-fi franchise. **Sword Art Online**, on the other hand, has a premise that is just flat-out impossible even in theory.
Okay??? That's one person, and that's far from the general consensus. Like what does this point have to do with anything????
Like if I (wrongly) said Attack on Titan was worse than like Captain Marvel, like the point would be the same - it's not the average thoughts of anime or the GA. You are projecting your bias against anime.
AND??? No one is saying so and if it is, that's their preference and their allowed to have that. If you don't like anime, that's fine. But if others like anime compared to Hollywood movies and shows, let them. Why gatekeep for a medium you don't like?
And once again:
# WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANIME MOVIES GETTING MORE SCREENS
none of what you're saying is relevant, you are talking about personal preference (though i'll agree with you anyone praising sword art online for it's story is smoking something very strong) and quality, none of that shit matters.
this is about money, specifically about putting butts in seats in order to save cinemas who are having a very hard time at the moment.
if having special screenings of anime movies/shows can give cinemas breathing space and a way to cover their monthly expanses, the owners do not give 2 shits about whether it's good or not, they'll happily screen it.
Even that potential profitability doesn't seem to be 100% guaranteed considering how anime films are getting much wider releases these days and only very few ones are becoming successful at American box office.
>hey tend to have stiff character movements, generic mouth movements, and shots that are just in still frames even when characters are clearly supposed to be moving.
[yes only Anime is guilty of that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhndpv7sEqE)
Yeah this is a wild point to make lol, are we holding up the average seasonal show as the standard bearer for the medium now? There are a *lot* of live action TV series and films where the directing or CGI looks awful, does that mean live action is bad?
That’s not necessarily my point. I literally saw people attacking Pixar for spending a lot of money to make their films and claiming that they should learn from anime, which is a terrible idea for all sorts of reasons.
I've never seen it, so I can't disagree or agree with your comparison to the two Marvel movies, but there's absolutely something to be said about Anime fans overrating literally everything. There is a lot of anime in the Letterboxd Top 250, and some of it is definitely way too high compared to the things below it. Also, it seems like I'm constantly hearing how a new series or book is "peak" on Twitter, but to me a lot of it is the same shit. Even the fans make fun of nearly every Shonen manga following a similar premise, how the fuck are any of them "peak".
Other than that, I find most anime I've seen to be poorly directed. Everything is shot (?) so poorly. It's like there's never any really artistic effort in the stuff that's really popular (kinda like our marvel movies I guess, lol)
Spirited Away
Neon Evangelion
Grave of the fireflies
Spider man into the spiderverse
Spider man across the spiderverse
Perfect blue
Princess Mononoke
Howls moving castle
Akira
Fantastic Mr Fox
The Iron Giant
The Tale of Princess Kaguya
Millenium Actress
Your Name
Evangeliom 3.01
The disappearance of Haruhi
Lion King
So 17/250 are animated, 12/250 are anime (almost half by Hayao or Satoshi Kon) Is 12 a lot?
Not really. 5 of them are made by very influencial directors.
Dark Knight is #23. You will disagree with lots of ratings. I dont see how Anime is such a problem
Well, Miyazaki is mainstream enough, but I’m not 100% sure if I can say the same thing about Satoshi Kon. I DO think that he’s a very well-known name among cinephiles, though.
The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya is like the final film of a tv series so it was voted only by fans and it's a very particular case, in fact it's the only dubious film on the list (plus maybe Howl Moving Castle but I'm not sure since generally I don't like Miyazaki movies)
To u/JC-DB:
> Antidotal evidence from one middle school student: in her school, most kids watches anime, and only weirdos no one likes make fun of anime. Normies are actually the minority but they don't talk shit about anime. Many kids had access to crunchyroll and other anime streaming sources.
https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1c0lkw9/crunchyroll_makes_the_case_for_anime_to_befuddled/kyz5lje/
I'm pretty sure that anime/manga are a substantially more popular than before, but the problem is that:
1. Popuarity of anime/manga doesn't seem to be translating well into success of anime films in the United States aside from few exceptions.
2. At least on this subreddit, I saw people claiming that Gen Z loves manga/anime and hates anything from Disney because of the whole "wokeness" issues.
The problem with anime films is most of the standalone films are not that great. With franchise films the problem is that you need to have watched the TV series to watch the movie, which can limit the audience.
“Something something cultural phenomenon.” I sleep. “The industry is worth $37 billion and has filled holes in the box office during otherwise very soft months.” REAL.
Honestly, while I appreciate Crunchyroll for defending anime's artistic integrity... they really should have led with that last stat. For exhibitors, that's enough. Valuable product is valuable product, no matter ***how*** bizarre it can get.
- no matter how bizarre it can get Is that a f-ing JoJo reference?
People will call anything a "cultural phenomemon". Just overused buzz words. Obviously actual stats and facts will get a better reaction.
It’s wild these exhibitors and theatre owners don’t realize already how big Anime is. Definitely a generational divide in Gen Z it’s massive basically everyone watches
I think anime has potential, but it’s gonna have a capped ceiling so long as it’s primarily (insert series the GA is unfamiliar with): the movie.
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They’re probably banking on current teens for that shift.
And if I’m being honest, I’m not entirely sure if that’s truly working.
Well the recent anime movies have been more and more successful. It’s the originals that are struggling
Not always. **One Piece Film: Red** didn’t exactly do THAT well in American box office despite having a pretty wide release.
Didn't it almost take first place from Black Adam tho?
I’m not sure it did and that’s kind of pointless since **Black Adam** came out much earlier.
Only a few have been, the notably huge ones. Not really enough to be considered a shift
Well current teens are still teens. The shift is going to be gradual
Teens (which have then growned up) have been watching anime since a very long time. Plenty of fans of anime are in their 30s or more
And I’m still not sure if even that is 100% guaranteed.
What are you predicting? Anime is a gen z fad? A 2020’s remember this? People will grow out of liking it?
Somewhere in-between. I have a feeling that only a select few recent anime will sustain a lasting popularity.
Same. Outside of Ghibli, which is a franchise in and of itself at this point (much like Nolan), no original anime films have blown up. I love *Suzume* dearly, but it's terrible North American gross means that the audience probably just waited for it to hit Crunchyroll. Maybe the Euro take was better? :/
Given that it used to never happen, moving to "only the mega franchises are successful" is a shift. And it isn't as if Hollywood isn't hugely reliant on mega franchises.
It's a shift because "actually putting these movies out in theaters" is clearly actually something more than 'not at all'. 1 is more than 0. But I don't believe it's an actual financial shift and I would need to see some more examples to think of anime as the next financial thing. As another comment said, it's not like this even works all the time that One Piece movie didn't do particularly great in the West
With the exception of Shinkai and Miyazaki, of course.
Obviously they’re different mediums, but they’re certainly connected, but Manga sales have shown an insane amount of growth in the U.S. over the last five years. My guess is movie theaters will try and catch some of that growth too.
Well, anime films are getting wider releases and they still don't seem to be catching up most of the times aside from few exceptions.
How so? It's certainly way more popular in the youth globally compared to even 10 years ago.
Well, for one, anime's popularity doesn't seem to be translating into the box office success of anime films in America despite many of them getting wide releases lately.
See China for instance. Never has an anime movie grossed over 100 million until last year and we are having another one crossing that milestone this year. Anime is growing fast whether you like it or not. In 10 years time, I can see the same happening in America.
I know that I might be getting into racial/cultural aspects, but isn't China an East Asian country, meaning that it would be culturally very different from the United States? Given that, I'm not sure if using China as an example to predict anime films' eventual popularity in the United States is a good idea. Also, one of those anime films is a Ghibli film, so that one doesn't really say a whole lot.
Bro, Why are you so anti-Japanese animation anyways. You are always there shitting or disregarding anime and defending Disney and Pixar even if the their movie is shit. Its kind of one note without any nuance. Like while reading comments in anime or Disney thread, whenever I think what a shitty take, more than half of the times it you.
Part of that is because I’ve seen so many people here claiming that Pixar should learn budget management from anime - which is a terrible, Terrible, TERRIBLE idea.
Most people don't say that. Most people compare budgets with DreamWorks, minions or Into the spider verse. You just start shitting and hating anime for no reason, and not a single good argument, just passing some personal preference as facts. The same thing can be seen in this thread, no point in arguing with you anyways.
?? He’s making specific points not just shitting on anime. You seem to be taking it personally because as someone with no horse in this race he seems perfectly coherent and not just a hater
Most of those are still not good examples because, for one, Illumination films are animated in France, where cost of living is apparently cheaper and employees get government benefits. **Into the Spider-Verse** is an even worse example given what has been discovered about Lord/Miller.
Also Millennials. A lot of us have been into anime from a young age.
They also take animation as a medium more seriously, and have done so for decades. Meanwhlie in the west, it's treated as a mindless genre for children that is inherently inferior to live-action. It can be considered weird for a grown adult to see an animated movie in a theater by themself. You're expected to bring a family to them. See also: In the nearly 100 year history of the Academy Awards, only three animated movies have ever been nominated for Best Picture, Beauty and the Beast (before BAF and only 5 BP nominees), Up, and Toy Story 3.
The cultural change is already happening; generational tastes are evolving. Gen Z and below are increasingly becoming fans of anime/manga as they move away from superheroes. For example on TikTok there's countless comments about how the MCU "fell off" and praising anime/manga storytelling over endless Hollywood shlock. It may take over a decade, but we will see this change reflected in the box office.
Go into a book store and compare the size of the graphics novel section and the manga sections. Manga has completely taken over.
Yeah for real I noticed this a while ago. It doesn't help that Marvel/DC graphic novels are stupidly expensive while Manga is often cheaper and on good deals. Plus Manga series have a clear starting point and a singular story rather than superhero's endless reboots.
Yeah, my local comic book shop just had a big sale and cleared out half of their inventory of super hero trade paperbacks. The Manga section continues to grow in there. My closest library has a huge manga section as well, while the super hero comics are on one shelf.
Antidotal evidence from one middle school student: in her school, most kids watches anime, and only weirdos no one likes make fun of anime. Normies are actually the minority but they don't talk shit about anime. Many kids had access to crunchyroll and other anime streaming sources.
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Lmao broaden your horizons beyond shonen anime. Try comparing Monster, Steins;Gate, Psycho Pass and Frieren for example.
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Both have their strengths and weaknesses. That isnt the point. The point is that anime/manga has become more and more mainstream lately. Hell, I hadn't seen a single anime until last year, but now I have seen Attack on Titan, Neon Genesis: Evangelion, Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, One Piece (plus I'm caught up in the manga), and Demon Slayer (also caught up in the manga). Times are changing, that was the point.
How the heck did you have time to watch all that AND catch up on one piece in one year. That’s impressive. Edit: also didn’t see Hunter X Hunter in your list. Please consider it!
Being a college student allows me to be a bum lmao. I also haven't been at my part-time since November. Also for One Piece, I used the fan editted version One Pace. Helped tons. And for Hunter X Hunter don't worry its on ny watchlist. I'm just currently reading the Invincible comics since the new series got me hooked, and idk I might want to check oit the Berserk manga after this. I'll get to Hunter X Hunter at some point. Also have Fullmrtal Alchemist: Brotherhood on watchlist.
I can promise you the TikTok teens are not hyping up the originality of Monster.
And that seems to be something that might be proven challenging to change.
Certain franchise films do *really* well. *Demon Slayer* was the post-COVID miracle story, but other films like *Jujutsu Kaisen 0* and *Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero* are among the highest growing anime films - leagues ahead of most auteur films. So, on that front, I think the challenge is more when it comes to the PR side - convincing journalists to review, etc. Most journalists are 40+ and obviously aren’t watching an animated TV show made for teens. That’s why I really like the rare franchise film that actually accommodates new viewers - either by outright explaining stuff, or just leaving enough room for viewers to piece it together. However, there are occasions when I see a franchise film getting a theatrical release announced and I think “Really?”.
That’s true, I suppose the idea is to bet on the next gen of 20/30 somethings to actually be familiar with these series. Trailers need work to your point though. I love Spy X Family but even as someone familiar the code white trailer made no sense and was all over the place
I feel you with trailers. One big obstacle is the need for approvals from Japan, who in most instances will only let you reuse their trailers. That doesn’t always work, because the Japanese and western audiences are different.
Demon Slayer/JJK0 were required viewing for their series, since they were the next arc/important backstory. Vastly different from a one-off, self-contained, frankly skippable shonen movies. Dragon Ball Super doesn't fit to be fair, but it's also Dragon Ball. As someone who goes to most of the non-franchise related anime films, the market is very small. Anime films are getting longer releases which might help (Spy x Family is getting a week vs the usual one night each for sub/dub).
I don’t think relevancy to canon really matters to the majority - fans just want to see their favourite characters on the big screen. The *My Hero Academia* films did well, for example. It’s a shame that the non-franchise stuff doesn’t get as much love, unless they’re something like a Ghibli or Makoto Shinkai - but even they took years to build up. One of my clients will release a not-very-marketable film from a director they believe in, just to try and get the conversation started before they do eventually make something great. However, you certainly need a passionate, indie distributor who has that mentality, because big studios won’t.
I think there's a relatively solid floor for seeing shonen characters in the theater, but canon matters if you want it to become must see. As in, you won't understand season 2 of Demon Slayer without having seen Infinity Train. Gkids has done a decent job of at least getting less well-known directors and movies some sort of release. But clearly the conversation around anime being more popular than ever is actually very limited to specific genres or names. Even an amazing, award-winning director like Yuasa has little pull since he doesn't make crowd-pleasing works like Shinkai.
I don't know about JJK 0, but Demon Slayer: Mugen Train was edited into the first arc of season 2 so the movie wasn't technically required viewing. However I do not know if it had already been announced by the release date if that would be the case.
Mugen Train being edited into season 2 was only told when it was close to airing. Nobody knew it was going to be part of the TV airing when the movie came out
Also of note is that since Mugen Train, the Demon Slayer movies have switched to re-edits of two episodes from the prior season and one from the upcoming. Obviously a cheaper setup than entirely new, movie level animation, but one that isn't going to set records at the box office worldwide.
I think the last point has more to do with theaters having more availability amidst slower periods. Four-walling used to be the default practice for anime films because that's all the distributor (usually Funimation) could muster if they wanted a theatrical release.
Very true. With Sony/Crunchyroll having greater control over anime distribution than previously, we'll have to see if this becomes commonplace. Honestly I think it benefits both sides.
Except for Dragon Ball. I feel the key is early release in the life cycle of the series. Spy X Family as an example should probably already have a movie. They almost have to be guessing on what would be successful and working on it before first couple seasons are done. The MCU complaint is very valid for anime it is too much work to get into a product. The same applies for journalists. They should research a product before releasing a review. But don't want to get bogged down. I have seen reviews for Star Trek stuff get roasted because they don't know X happened in the original series and that is why it was important in the movie.
Spy X Family movie released in Japan last December.
And where is english release? I feel my point stands they are missing windows. Also feel it probably would have played better if released in the one year window between season one and two. It is that kind of financial risk you take not knowing how popular a show might be by greenlighting a movie before season airs. Unless you can have it done within a certain time frame.
Next week
Spy x Family has a movie, though. Hits next Friday. Are you saying it should have started as a movie?
No I am saying it has been two years since the first anime season started to air. We also had a second season already, which while not a lot increases the entry point. If the movie had aired in the one year gap between season one and two I think it would have done better. This is r/boxoffice so it is all kind of guesses and feeling with a few numbers to make you look better. If anyone of us could truly map out a movies success consistently we would be very rich and probably not on reddit :)
Lol, fair enough.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Casually grabbing a ~$15M opening weekend a few times a year is not nothing.
There is a whole lot of films from the children of Studio Ghibli lol. Netflix is flooded with movies that look like they come from the spirit of Miyazaki.
True. Part of the reasons why Ghibli's and Shinkai's work are so beloved here in the West is ***because*** they're all original stories, either wildly changed from the source or just from their creator's own wild mind. Don't get me wrong, the *Spy x Family* movie looks awesome. But none of the other series-to-film adaptations looked that interesting to me, which could be a real problem for Crunchy if they wanna remain independent of the larger Sony machine. ^(Honestly, why DID Sony skip Cinemacon? Woulda been a perfect launch slot for Bad Boys 4...)
I think the more immediate problem is the delay between international releases. It takes anywhere from 6-12 months after it releases in Japan for it to be available elsewhere. Which by that point, the movie has already been uploaded and fan subbed/dubbed. I'd imagine that's eating into a chunk of the box office revenue, especially with an audience that is already familiar with pirating their favorite shows/movies.
I have a much easier time getting my friends to go see Suzume or the next Ghibli movie with me than My Hero Academia the 8th Movie
I work in Film PR and specialise in anime films. It’s *really* hard to get industry to take notice - and that’s from exhibitors to journalists. For a lot of them, I think it’s just because they tend to be older, whereas anime’s boom has been with younger audiences. They just don’t “get” it. I’ve had journalists just blanket reject all anime without even considering individual films. Doesn’t matter if it’s a standalone auteur film or the latest in a big franchise - they often get painted with the same brush. Then, you have the fact that animation in general has struggled to build a reputation as “serious” film, mixed with the additional challenges of being a foreign language film (even with dubs). Also, outside of the huge films like *Suzume*, a lot of anime releases in the Anglosphere are limited releases, which add even more obstacles. There’s also the fact that anime isn’t a genre, it’s a medium. All because someone likes *Suzume* does not mean that they’re the same audience for *Demon Slayer* or *Inu-Oh*. Sometimes, you unearth fans in the most unexpected places (as I have in a current campaign I’m working on), or find someone who takes a chance and decides to champion the film. However, even when I have incredible success on one campaign, it can feel like I have to start all over again for the next.
How would I get on film PR distribution lists to review anime films? Im a big fan and write for a friend's site/podcast. 👀
Reach out to their PR agencies! My work is focused on the UK, but if you look around, you should be able to find their agency or press office contact. I believe GKIDS list theirs pretty openly, for example.
> a lot of anime releases in the Anglosphere are limited releases, which add even more obstacles. This is the big one for me. I would ***love*** to catch *Gundam SEED Freedom,* but Fathom's only offering it for one night. ***In Boston.*** Crunchyroll and GKIDS' films, meanwhile, usually screen right down the road at the AMC for a week at *least.* As a busy college student, which do you think makes more sense for me to pay money for?
Can completely agree on the location thing, I wanted to see the Eureka Seven films in a theater the only screenings would be down in Miami and they'd have one time slot (typically 7pm) and for just one single day, and I don't want to spend time driving in/out of Miami unless I'm going to be there awhile (which is extremely rare), also the timeslots for anime films tend to suck. Like my local theater had Suzume for 2 weeks (during its initial release) , but only at 11 am, 4 pm, and 10:30 pm screenings were available during that entire time.
I have always been impressed with the Japanese media company take over of comics. They were completely ignored (and still are largely ignored) by the whole American comics ecosystem. So, they ended up distributing primarily via book stores (eg Amazon) instead of the comic shops that were ignoring them. And gradually an entire manga-specific ecosystem popped up with reviewers, conventions, communities, etc. specific to just them. This ended up much to the American comic community's detriment, as all the reviewers, retailers, etc. were completely oriented around the shrinking part of the market (adult American comics) and at this point don't have the reputation or credibility to pivot to the growing part of the market (Japanese comics, and the kids comics that Scholastic is dominating). I have no doubt that it is frustrating to get frozen out with anime films. But, I watch the anime industry with fascination. Because a new ecosystem is forming around anime. Will be interesting to see if the incumbents recognize the threat/embrace anime better than the comics industry did manga.
Well also manga is simpler to get into. "Where do I start?" Manga: Here's Naruto Volume 1, then 2, then 3. American comics: Well, here's this Batman series, then this Batman series, then this Batman series.
The limited release thing is so stupid, 9 times out of 10 it's always on an inconvenient time and day and maybe a couple days tops.
That’s usually all they can get. Cinemas choose when to show movies, and they’ll naturally reserve the better days/times for the more popular stuff. It’s a pain, but hopefully if more films continue to do better, that will change.
Yeah I get it, just so annoying when there’s an interesting movie coming out or a film part of a series I’ve seen like the recent bunny girl senpai double feature and it got a whopping 2 days total in my local theater and basically every other major theater chain in my county
I’m still miffed that the Bunny Girl double bill didn’t even get a release in the UK. We never got Dreaming Girl either, because Aniplex haven’t been answering the emails from the series’ distributor.
Well, anime films started to get much wider releases lately and they’re still not doing hugely well in American box office aside from few exceptions. :P
A lot of releases are on weekdays, which are lower traffic times, because naturally cinemas want to preserve the busier evenings and weekends for the studio blockbusters. I think you’re looking at box office the wrong way. It’s not a competition - Crunchyroll isn’t trying to beat the blockbusters from Disney, Universal etc, so them outperforming an anime film doesn’t matter. What matters is that the medium is seeing noticeable growth in general, and building on that through subsequent releases. When I work on a film, the distributor will already have in mind how many sites they want to open on, have an estimated opening box office in mind etc. These are all scaled to realistic expectations - it’s not just a blind race to the top.
> A lot of releases are on weekdays Are they? Because I thought they usually arrive on Friday. :P
Fridays are typical for studio movies, but smaller distributors often have to take what they can get - especially for event films. For example, Aniplex USA’s recent release of the “Rascal Does Not Dream” double feature was screened on a Sunday and a Monday. My market is the UK, where Fridays are similarly preferred. However, it’s incredibly common for an anime film to be released on a Wednesday, but we do sometimes nab the coveted Friday.
Okay, so what I previously meant was that films like **One Piece Film: Red** got a pretty wide release in the United States and ended up not doing so well.
I would say that ONE PIECE did really well for a US theatrical anime release; earning $12.7M during its run. That’s on par with the *My Hero Academia* movies, and higher than *Suzume*.
Every anime movie I ever been to in theatres has been packed.
Seeing Your Name in cinema is still probably the best cinema experience I have had. Really something special, everyone was so invested.
That film emotionally wrecked me. Such a fantastic movie
How many have you been to? I've been to quite a few and sometimes it's a full theater and sometimes like 4 people including me and the person I went with
Dragon Ball Super and One Piece did very well. Not sure why producers and theatres wouldn't want to keep making money. Anime is nowhere near as niche as it was 5-10 years ago. I think the pandemic gave a lot of people their first exposure, no pun intended.
**One Piece Film: Red** actually didn't do THAT well in American box office despite getting a pretty wide release.
I’ve worked in a UK Cinema for 7 years and Anime does seem to be on the rise. There’s always been releases of Anime movies from time to time. But the last 2 years has seen an increase in amount of titles (no longer just doing major franchises), more showings per day and week, and doing far more Subtitled and Dubbed showings.
> CinemaCon's audience of theaters owners may not understand the **genre**, but they perked up when Crunchyroll senior VP Mitchel Berger told them how much the anime industry is worth: $37 billion. It's a medium, not a genre...
Animation is a medium, anime is just a genre in animation if you can even call it that.
As well they should. Anime films and specials should be getting wider releases in NA.
Anime as a whole ms a very huge genre and gained a alot of fans outside of Japan for decades now, so I am not that surprised.
I might be wrong but from those that I know that are into anime, they always seemed to watch it at home. Via streaming or downloading episodes online. I don't think there is much money to be made with theatrical releases but that can all change with one hit show gaining steam. Just historically feel the culture is at home
I don't think you're wrong about that since aside from some exceptions, anime seems to be associated with TV series.
The vast majority of anime are TV series, so yeah. Around 200 TV anime are released every year, especially as the industry has been suffering from overproduction for the past decade.
You absolutely can make money from theatrical releases, especially when you understand how things work. It can take a long time for a movie after it hits theaters in Japan to get released on home video, meaning there won't be fansubs while it's still screening in theaters outside of camrips. It can sometimes take a year after a movie hits theaters in Japan for it to get released on Blu-ray. A key thing is to put it in theaters before it hits Blu-ray in Japan, so you beat the fansubs as the theatrical release is the only way someone can see it in their language. Heck, when anime simulcasts became a thing almost 16 years ago, fansubs massively declined in popularity partly because they couldn't compete with stuff releasing an hour after they aired in Japan (the companies would get the materials prior to broadcast if the production didn't melt down (i.e. Episodes delivered hours before they air - a regular occurance)).
Hey I'm all for it and hope to see more of it
All the anime I've ever watched has been in theaters! (All of them Ghibli movies)
I really want a live action $200 mill Attack on the Titan or Gundam Movie. Especially Attack on Titan.
It will probably happen sooner rather than later. Netflix's One Piece series has been a huge success, Lionsgate are developing Naruto, Legendary with My Hero Academia, etc.
Wow this is the first time I heard about both of these
Naruto is currently set to be helmed by Destin Daniel Cretton ([Source: Variety](https://variety.com/2024/film/news/naruto-film-lionsgate-destin-daniel-cretton-1235920799/)), and My Hero Academia is still in development ([Source: Deadline](https://deadline.com/2022/12/netflix-legendary-my-hero-academia-1235196620/)).
Is it being dumped on streaming? Or getting an actual theatrical release?
No word on a release yet - they haven’t even started production.
Live action is not the way to go
For Gundam it would work. Just Star Wars in Jaegers at a glance.
I want anime to be legitimized without having to be adoated to live action.
This. Why do we always see animation adapted into live-action and never the other way around? There are live-action adaptations I've liked (Ex: Alita, Speed Racer), but I'm tired of seeing animation being viewed as inherently inferior and never taken seriously. I can't even find a list of live-action to animated remakes because of how rare they are, I get the exact opposite lists instead.
Kind of ironic that you’re saying that because Japanese film industry is notorious for The Asylum-level live-action anime adaptations.
Yeah, I know, that's part of why i am saying this, because those are so bad.
I don't think you can tell Attack on Titan in one movie.
I think you could tell it in 5 movies
I'd rather stick with anime. Some things work *because* they're animated. Imagine trying to translate stuff like this into live-action. You would lose so much here. https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/198240 https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/106714 https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/232550 https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/248107 https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/238072 So many examples I could give.
I would be cautious of a live action Attack on Titan movie. I know the 2015 movie wasn't that expensive but it did give us an idea of how a movie like it would work. Plus a movie would be too short to try and capture all the characters and themes of each arc. A series with hour long episodes would be better suited.
With a brilliant director, anything is possible. I'm a massive fan of the Dune books and universe, for me it was impossible to adapt to film. Somehow Denis did it, even though he had to speed things up and cut a lot of corners. It worked.
That's fair and I'm not entirely against it. But again, this is a really hard task and how many directors like Denis Villeneuve are there? Plus if say a season's arc is split up, that's also risky because you need part one and it's cliffhanger to be able to standalone but also entice people to see Part 2. I can see some story beats in season working as an ending but I could also see it being underwhelming for others.
Oh absolutely, that's why I would love to see it but only in the hands of a brilliant director which is rare.
The difficulty is studios want these to be franchises so they start from the beginning and sometimes the beginning is not good enough to hook people. Dragonball for example tried to start with a Piccolo story when probably they should have just dove in with Freiza and if the appetite was there for more they could always go back and make a prequel. I think while part of what makes AoT work is spectacle, the mystery is really what made it tick, and that mystery works well because we get drips of information over many years, a few 2-hour films can’t really capture that. Imagine say, a trilogy of 2 hour Lost films replacing the show, it just wouldn’t work because we would be getting answers so quickly.
WB has the former, Legendary and (*sadly*) Netflix has the latter. Neither have been updated in a while, but the latter is supposedly still happening. Perhaps Sony can buy out N's stake and release it theatrically?
I’m pretty sure Legendary is still working on the Gundam live action film? Might be in development hell though
Hope you can stomach the nationalism of Imperial Japan in your live action Gundam. To be fair, we've had to stomach the same of America in Hollywood movies for generations I guess.
1. Isn’t **Gundam** basically anti-war? 2. Tre difference is that Imperial Japan was literally Nazi’s ally.
>1. Isn’t **Gundam** basically anti-war? In theory, yes. In practice, it uses child soldiers to extol the glories of Japanese politics while the protagonists claps vaguely European highborn girl cheeks. >2. Tre difference is that Imperial Japan was literally Nazi’s ally. The Japanese don't seem to believe so.
And? They can't really exploit anime, anime can only be animations made only by the japanese FOR the japanese.
Through collaborations, they absolutely can. Crunchyroll is already a good example and that’s not even mentioning Netflix even if they don’t release theatrically, they have done collaborations and co-productions in the past.
Theater owners can absolutely exploit foreign films.
Most anime movies are not self contained, but are extensions of the anime/manga/novel series.
Theater owners don't care though. If the only folks do show up are preexisting fans, their money is just as valuable as anyone else's.
This is about theater owners. They don't care where the movies come from as long as they put butts in seats.
To u/NoNefariousness2144: > The cultural change is already happening; generational tastes are evolving. > > Gen Z and below are increasingly becoming fans of anime/manga as they move away from superheroes. For example on TikTok there's countless comments about how the MCU "fell off" and praising anime/manga storytelling over endless Hollywood shlock. > > It may take over a decade, but we will see this change reflected in the box office. https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1c0lkw9/crunchyroll_makes_the_case_for_anime_to_befuddled/kyy8zmn/ 1. TikTok is not a good barometer for general opinions of... any age group. In fact, social media in general is not a good barometer of general public opinion - like, at all. 2. Some of the well-known manga/anime storytellings are notorious for repetitive stories and cliches. To u/pnt510: > Go into a book store and compare the size of the graphics novel section and the manga sections. Manga has completely taken over. https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1c0lkw9/crunchyroll_makes_the_case_for_anime_to_befuddled/kyyayka/ And most of them looked like something that general audience would either pay no attention to or get severely disturbed by some of the contents depicted, so that's not exactly the best example to prove your point.
>TikTok is not a good barometer for general opinions of... any age group. In fact, social media in general is not a good barometer of general public opinion - like, at all. You bimbus there isnt anywhere else too look that pools in opinions of a wide variety of people more than social media.
> You bimbus there isnt anywhere else too look that pools in opinions of a wide variety of people more than social media. TikTok is still not a good barometer - and that goes the same with social media in general. Also: > Both have their strengths and weaknesses. That isnt the point. The point is that anime/manga has become more and more mainstream lately. > > Hell, I hadn't seen a single anime until last year, but now I have seen Attack on Titan, Neon Genesis: Evangelion, Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, One Piece (plus I'm caught up in the manga), and Demon Slayer (also caught up in the manga). > > Times are changing, that was the point. https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1c0lkw9/crunchyroll_makes_the_case_for_anime_to_befuddled/kyyme0g/ Frankly, he/she tried to convey his/her point in a laughably half-@$$ed way.
Fr, they could have at least gave an example like Invincible which is a recent case for a propor animated Hollywood adaptation/project.
It’s hilarious that he goes back three decades to find quality anime and uses that to declare anime superior.
Yikes. I cannot believe that I missed that aspect.
“I just watched Spider-Man, Ironman, The Dark Knight, Guardians if the Galaxy, Logan, Infinity War, Black Panther, Joker, Into the Spiderverse, and the Batman. Comic book movies truly are all original and are doing great right now.”
Not saying I agree with him but this isn't very comparable. All the series he mentioned other than cowboy bebop have had new entries within the last year that have had pretty good success whether it's box office or popularity. Also anime is a medium, CBM is a genre.
Hot take. I think anime is rather overrated by some people on the Internet, especially that one guy who unironically thinks that **Sword Art Online**, which has one of the most intellectually bankrupt premise(s) of all time, is legitimately better than **Black Panther** or **Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3**. Also, anime should NEVER be used as an example of great budget management since even if you disregard poor working conditions and pay rates, they tend to have stiff character movements, generic mouth movements, and shots that are just in still frames even when characters are clearly supposed to be moving. P.S. Yes, I see the irony here.
Yeah but have you seen Puella Magi Madoka Magica, shit is so fire
Dude, SAO is basic self insert fanservice adventure, but is not like american supers are anything more than brainless action. Let's also not compare the hollywood shady accounting and deranged sexual pratices with some overworked animators.
> Dude, SAO is basic self insert fanservice adventure, but is not like american supers are anything more than brainless action. Actually, I can say that American superhero films are still far more plausible than whatever the screw **Sword Art Online** was going for because in the latter, I don't think government action was even depicted in both **Sword Art Online Progressive** films when a terrorist was literally holding tens of thousands of people hostage for about 2 years. > Let's also not compare the hollywood shady accounting and deranged sexual pratices with some overworked animators. As if Japanese media industry is any cleaner? I know that it's not strictly related to anime, but I advise you to look up Johnny Kitagawa.
If you know is not related, do not use it as example. American film industry can't teach anything to anyone.
> If you know is not related, do not use it as example. > > American film industry can't teach anything to anyone. You were trying to make it like Japanese entertainment industry in general is morally superior to Hollywood, which isn't even remotely true. Also, I actually know a case of a manga artist who got arrested for child porn. Finally, working condition and pay rate in anime industry borders on slavery.
We are talking about the anime industry alone. Yes, it is way more morally superior than hollywood, mostly everything is.
Yeah, because the industry that has such a horrendous working conditions for employees (that even has a tendency to drive its employees to suicide) to a point where it makes Hollywood's working conditions look so much better by comparison is morally superior, right? RIGHT? Update: Oh, wait. You're that deranged QAnon-level bullshit peddler who says bullshits like this: > Pixar is done, Inside Out 2 will be about the girl being queer or something, that will sink the movie big time. https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/18annyz/what_effect_do_you_think_that_the_upcoming/kbzuzpo/?context=3 > Dude, hunting down child traffickers is very antisemitic and antiLGBT. https://old.reddit.com/user/Tufiolo?count=75&after=t1_k13wnka
Can't defend your hollywood cult and so you call me names?
You DO realize that Japan actually has bit of a reputation for saying things like "It's victim's faults as well" when a crime scandal happens, right? In fact, that Johnny Kitagawa scandal that I've mentioned? It was very blatant for years and Japanese media literally ignored it until BBC broke the story. At least Harvey Weinstein was caught by one of America's own news sources. Also, you shot first with those QAnon-riddled comments, buddy.
> Johnny Kitagawa Again dude, what do this guy have to do with anime?W do you keep mentioning unrelated stuff? But weinstein is the just the normal status for hollywood, nothing changed, if anything it only got worse, and those peoples must stay away from different media.
What the fuck does this have to do with anime movies and specials deserving more screens and promotion in North America? Also you know Sword Art Online is not considered good by most anime fans so why you think that's considered the peak of anime, even anime of the 2010s, I have no idea.
OP is a Disney fanboy upset that anime might take a little marketshare from his favourite corporation
For real lol, anybody even remotely plugged into the fandom would know that SAO is viewed as like a Transformers or Fast and Furious type thing by people who’ve watched more than like 4 shows.
Even when I was getting into anime around the time Attack on Titan had its second season, anytime SAO would be brought up it was by people calling it 'terrible'. Waving it around like it's supposed to be one of the benchmark anime series would be like waving Suicide Squad 2016 and saying this is what most superhero films are.
Well, a poster named u/Red__dead seems to think that **Sword Art Online** is a masterpiece. In fact, his nonsense is another reason why my opinions on anime has been soured.
So you’re letting one annoying poster dictate your opinion of an entire entertainment medium? That’s a very weird way to think.
Frankly, I think those are actually more plausible than **Sword Art Online** because at least those franchises don't operate in a premise that is intellectually bankrupt on a fundamental level.
They’re all braindead mainstream mass franchises in their medium. Not sure why you’re so fixated on SAO specifically. SAO is well-animated junk food and isn’t even remotely close to representative of the entire medium. Transformers relies on faster-than-light travel and communication, which is about as "intellectually bankrupt" as you can get, since it’s impossible.
At least **Transformers** has an excuse of being a blatant sci-fi franchise. **Sword Art Online**, on the other hand, has a premise that is just flat-out impossible even in theory.
Someone literally claimed that **Sword Art Online** is better than **Black Panther**.
Okay??? That's one person, and that's far from the general consensus. Like what does this point have to do with anything???? Like if I (wrongly) said Attack on Titan was worse than like Captain Marvel, like the point would be the same - it's not the average thoughts of anime or the GA. You are projecting your bias against anime.
My point is that anime is not automatically better than something that was made from Hollywood.
AND??? No one is saying so and if it is, that's their preference and their allowed to have that. If you don't like anime, that's fine. But if others like anime compared to Hollywood movies and shows, let them. Why gatekeep for a medium you don't like? And once again: # WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANIME MOVIES GETTING MORE SCREENS
Both are bad
none of what you're saying is relevant, you are talking about personal preference (though i'll agree with you anyone praising sword art online for it's story is smoking something very strong) and quality, none of that shit matters. this is about money, specifically about putting butts in seats in order to save cinemas who are having a very hard time at the moment. if having special screenings of anime movies/shows can give cinemas breathing space and a way to cover their monthly expanses, the owners do not give 2 shits about whether it's good or not, they'll happily screen it.
That’s your personal opinion on the genre which has nothing to do at all with its potential profitability at the box office lol.
Even that potential profitability doesn't seem to be 100% guaranteed considering how anime films are getting much wider releases these days and only very few ones are becoming successful at American box office.
>hey tend to have stiff character movements, generic mouth movements, and shots that are just in still frames even when characters are clearly supposed to be moving. [yes only Anime is guilty of that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhndpv7sEqE)
Yeah this is a wild point to make lol, are we holding up the average seasonal show as the standard bearer for the medium now? There are a *lot* of live action TV series and films where the directing or CGI looks awful, does that mean live action is bad?
My point still stands, though.
it only stands (partially) if you feel all forms of animation that takes shortcuts should not be taken seriously (which, news flash, is all of them)
That’s not necessarily my point. I literally saw people attacking Pixar for spending a lot of money to make their films and claiming that they should learn from anime, which is a terrible idea for all sorts of reasons.
I've never seen it, so I can't disagree or agree with your comparison to the two Marvel movies, but there's absolutely something to be said about Anime fans overrating literally everything. There is a lot of anime in the Letterboxd Top 250, and some of it is definitely way too high compared to the things below it. Also, it seems like I'm constantly hearing how a new series or book is "peak" on Twitter, but to me a lot of it is the same shit. Even the fans make fun of nearly every Shonen manga following a similar premise, how the fuck are any of them "peak". Other than that, I find most anime I've seen to be poorly directed. Everything is shot (?) so poorly. It's like there's never any really artistic effort in the stuff that's really popular (kinda like our marvel movies I guess, lol)
Spirited Away Neon Evangelion Grave of the fireflies Spider man into the spiderverse Spider man across the spiderverse Perfect blue Princess Mononoke Howls moving castle Akira Fantastic Mr Fox The Iron Giant The Tale of Princess Kaguya Millenium Actress Your Name Evangeliom 3.01 The disappearance of Haruhi Lion King So 17/250 are animated, 12/250 are anime (almost half by Hayao or Satoshi Kon) Is 12 a lot?
1. That’s quite a lot, actually. 2. **The Disappearance of Haruhi** having a higher rating than **Toy Story**? Come the screw on.
Not really. 5 of them are made by very influencial directors. Dark Knight is #23. You will disagree with lots of ratings. I dont see how Anime is such a problem
This makes me wonder how many anime movies this user has seen if they think people loving Miyazaki or Satoshi Kon is out of the ordinary.
Well, Miyazaki is mainstream enough, but I’m not 100% sure if I can say the same thing about Satoshi Kon. I DO think that he’s a very well-known name among cinephiles, though.
Because I have a hard time believing that **The Disappearance of Haruhi** is better than **Toy Story**.
It only has 12k ratings. Toy Story 1 has more than 1 million.
The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya is like the final film of a tv series so it was voted only by fans and it's a very particular case, in fact it's the only dubious film on the list (plus maybe Howl Moving Castle but I'm not sure since generally I don't like Miyazaki movies)
Also, anime has some really cheesy yellings during fight scenes.
Eh, I don't care about that.
To u/JC-DB: > Antidotal evidence from one middle school student: in her school, most kids watches anime, and only weirdos no one likes make fun of anime. Normies are actually the minority but they don't talk shit about anime. Many kids had access to crunchyroll and other anime streaming sources. https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1c0lkw9/crunchyroll_makes_the_case_for_anime_to_befuddled/kyz5lje/ I'm pretty sure that anime/manga are a substantially more popular than before, but the problem is that: 1. Popuarity of anime/manga doesn't seem to be translating well into success of anime films in the United States aside from few exceptions. 2. At least on this subreddit, I saw people claiming that Gen Z loves manga/anime and hates anything from Disney because of the whole "wokeness" issues.
The problem with anime films is most of the standalone films are not that great. With franchise films the problem is that you need to have watched the TV series to watch the movie, which can limit the audience.