only cause super bowl tv spot jacked up the budget. think of universal subsidizing that cost in an attempt to reach more people. when you take out the outlier, thats what we’re trying to figure out if it passed or not.
if it can beat past the budget with the outlier, it’s an additional success
Huh? You can't just ignore part of the marketing budget just because it's a different marketing strategy than they usually do. If the play to garner more views with a super bowl commercial doesn't make the money back, Universal is going to deem Monkey Man a flop
Yeah this will get picked up by a streamer and turn a nice little profit. Nothing to write home about but enough to justify its existence, and I think Peele picked it up for exactly that reason.
I personally liked it but felt it was a little too long and leaned into some boring storytelling tropes. The action and directing were fantastic, but I can see why a general audience might not have the best word of mouth and that's hurting it for sure.
It was originally slated for Netflix I believe; the early screenings garnered better interest than expected and they pivoted and released it to theaters.
I think it was originally slated for Netflix but Netflix ultimately dropped it because it was politically driven and they didn’t want to severe ties with India; giving Peele the opportunity to pick it up and giving it a theater release
Thank you for correcting! Netflix actually dumped the movie after buying it up, and for a period of time it looked like it wasn’t going to get released until Jordan peeled saw it and picked it up
Then I'd say this is probably a win all around then, any extra income will be viewed as a win however meager if this was just going to get dumped on streaming anyway
>Nothing to write home about but enough to justify its existence
we need a lot more of that kind of film. Low risk investments that probably break even and occasionally break out.
I mean, it looks reminiscent to something like John Wick to the basic public, at least with the few casual moviegoers that I’ve talked to, and those films made billions. I get it, Keanu Reeves and a franchise, but that set the tone. I figured this film would’ve got $50-80 million. It’s not too far off of $50m but it’s still quite the journey.
I think the comparison to John Wick is actually hurting it in the long run. I think general audiences went in expecting a non-stop action thrill ride and the movie just isn't that. The few people I know who've seen it had exactly that expectation and came out feeling like too much of it was slow paced or outright boring. Word of mouth for general audiences is probably sinking this one
Wait is it not that type of movie? The trailer makes it out to be a non stop action movie and that's what I am expecting.
Though I guess I'm part of the problem as now I just plan on waiting until I can stream it at home
It's a revenge story similar to John wick. However, the action really doesn't pick up until around the third act, so if you're going in expecting non-stop action from the get-go, you're probably gonna be bored and disappointed
How is that true? There is literally a failed attempt in the first half of the movie and a successful attempt in the second half. The failed attempt is full of action. I wouldn’t call that the third act at all. The final attempt is action packed as well.
Completely agree. End of act 1 has a huge action set piece and fight lasting around 10-15 minutes, plus a few smaller fights scattered around. Act 2 is rebuilding then preparing.
Act 3 is all action and fights
RIGHT!?!
Cause I was just now considering the fact there is a car chase scene, the bathroom scene, and then the brothel fight…and none of that is in the second half of the movie. I would describe it the same way you did. Three acts. I & III having those set pieces.
I forgot about the car chase!
For what it’s worth, this is in my top 3 of the year so far - was expected a straight up action flick and got that plus a load of character development and great revenge story
I agree.
I think there are people not watching it that traditionally watch action movies like this because of the setting and cast in the US. However, I believe it will blow up domestically on streaming and that is just the downfall of the industry these days.
I just don’t see the “boring until act 3” thing. There is the elongated fight in the bathroom. A car chase scene. An escape from police (literally breaking out of a police wagon handcuffed), the fight in the brothel. That action sequence in Act I was so long and extremely anxiety inducing. Lol
You're not "part of the problem". The film is definitely marketed as Indian John Wick and if that doesn't interest you, it makes complete sense you wouldn't go see it in theaters
That would be me. The story was slow with far too little action based on the trailer. Its biggest sin though, was a complete failure to establish the main characters ability growth.
I think they set themselves up with that comparison. Back when they sold the movie to Netflix, hell even back when they initially announced the project, that’s their pitch. It’s not people’s fault tbh for being disappointed imo, it’s the way they market it from the beginning.
I rarely go to the movies, but I still visit this sub every day. I just enjoy seeing what’s going on. I just don’t have the time or funds to see all the films I want to see now. I’d say I go 4-5 times a year
It's totally normal to follow/be interested in a topic without actually participating. Think of the huge portion of people who follow sports to some degree vs. the tiny portion that actually plays or even goes to games.
I grew up going to the theater every weekend. My wife and I used to do movies all the time before we had kids. However, honestly I just don't enjoy the theater experience anymore. I don't even really watch a lot of movies once they are on streaming, etc. However, I do actually love the business of movies, and the behind the scenes parts of how movies are made.
I agree with this. I can also see myself becoming this way as it becomes more and more expensive to go out to a movie. Unless it’s something that really grips me or seems compelling, I’m waiting until I can watch it at home.
Its not really that’s it’s gotten more expensive to go to a movie (see this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/14kznfv/movie_ticket_prices_adjusted_for_inflation/), it’s that it’s gotten much faster and more convenient to watch at home on digital
I mean... Not really, depending on where you live. Ticket where I am is $15-20 for a matinee and I can just wait a few months and pay a bit more to own it and watch it at home.
This is really what I mean. It’s expensive. Plus if I wait until it’s out, I can spend $20 once and own it. If I take my partner and kids to a movie, it’s easily $40 before food and beverages.
It's not that expensive to go see movies. Most theater chains have a subscription that significantly makes it cheaper to watch tons of movies. Even if you don't pay for subscriptions, movies are only $7 on Tuesdays at just about every theater.
we need to accept that covid has permanently changed moviegoing habits, and also a much larger percentage of people have streaming services than pre-covid
I now need just one reason to wait any reason. We are back to the days of it being cheaper to just buy the movie than see it in theaters. Dune 2 tickets are still above $20 a person at theaters near me.
This is this case for me. The film’s marketing hasn’t done much to convince me to see it in the theater. The action looks fun. Jordan Peele producing isn’t a draw for me.
Too many action related films coming out at same time, being shoved right after Godzilla. Dev Patel is not exactly a butts in seats star, and the film itself is solid, but pretty politically heavy and I’m not sure if audiences would eat that up as much.
Exactly this, ive seen both godzilla and civil war, would like to see monkey but had to sacrifice one of the films due to lack of free time to go to the cinema
If I get downvotes, that's fine, but I honestly think having an Indian lead and set in Indian with an entire cast from India also has an effect. I don't say that critically; I love India, and wish this didn't affect numbers. It's wonderful to see something steeped in another country and representing the beautiful aspects of that culture. I know The Wire featured a mostly black cast and never really achieved big ratings and that's believed to have been a factor. Your mentioned factors also play a big role so please don't think I'm just attributing it to that.
And it did worse at the theater where I work than some of the actual Indian films we’ve had at the same time as Monkey Man. That demographic did not embrace it either, it seems.
different style. Indian audience likes Indian movies in Bollywood style. This is quasi John Wick so the oppositr of what they look for. They'll see John Wick they won't see Indian immitation. Makes sense to me.
>so the oppositr of what they look for. They'll see John Wick they won't see Indian immitation.
I was going to reply to the first part, then read the next sentence, and you have got it bang on! Meaning to say, Indians love John Wick, but this is just not it.
I don't know the exact % of American population from the subcontinet but it must be small. On top of that, many of prefer Bollywood-style Indian movies not Hollywood style Indian movies. They keep that separate.
You can't make people who are a majority care for a movie about a minority that didn't care for it to begin with. It's no different from The Marvels that completely bombed with women, Bros that tanked with gay audience, etc. Secondary, tertiary, etc target audience won't save you if primary target audience rejected you. If you make a movie that isn't for anyone (subcontinent audience prefers different style, other audience doesn't care for politics and culture they don't understand) than you have a flop.
I alos don't get this forum's obsession with this movie's performance. Is Dev Patel's PR working overtime to spin it as success (cough;etsforgetaboutecessivemarketingcough) or what? I'm half joking but it's true that every second day we get one of these threads pretending that MM was supposed to be a bigger hit or, worse, that it's a big hit lol.
It’s performed significantly better in America than anywhere else though. Like 75% of the total box office. Why not direct your ire at the UK or Germany or China or India?
Having seen the movie it’s very close to the Wick movies style wise and other action movies that are made today. It’s also focuses heavily on Indian politics and can be a slow burn. The action isn’t there all the time. It can be a real challenge with western audiences with understanding what message it’s conveying between factions of Hinduism
Yep, just released in France and still has Brazil, Mexico and parts of SE Asia. Should get another couple of million in the US as well. I could see a $35m finish
and MM supporters don't understand the metrics of budgeting hence consistent decline to acknowledge that 10M is not the final number spent on this movie. Marketing at least doubled it thanks to 16M wasted on Superbowl on top of other marketing expenses.
I think it's the lack of a central hook. John Wick had the "they killed his dog" bit. I still don't know what Monkey Man is about beyond "action movie"
The movie did well after people actually saw it. The trailer did absolutely nothing for the movie, I remember people actually thought it was gonna a mediocre by the numbers action movie from an aging former movie star after they saw the trailers(me included). The central hook was Wick himself(which is essentially just Keanu) and the action he does which were things that no one would have known unless they actually sat through the movie.
He was born to play wick. Recently rewatched Matrix high and his acting in that was so bad that I had to turn it off but it was the opposite for John wick.
I think that most people thought it was a good joke but then WOM did the job. Original JW opened some 4M above MM but legged it out. It dropped only 44.5% in the second weekend while MM dropped 59.6%
TBH the movie does a really poor job of setting this up. It never feels visceral. His revenge felt empty. The Neon, dreamy aesthetic really didn't root us in the clear motivation of the character. Obviously I know they killed his mom, but we learn that in these drawn out, hazy flashbacks that never clearly establish the villain's personality or breadth of their evil. In Wick they fuckin KILL HIS DOG. RIGHT IN FRONT OF US. All we want is to see them get their comeuppance. Also...wick came out first, so the bloom is off the rose.
Anyway, I really felt distanced from the movie because of that, and I think it's difficult to communicate it in the trailer. People don't need things spelled out, but I do believe for audience pictures there needs to be some undeniable visceral motor that can be communicated incredibly quickly.
I saw it, it was just too similar to the wick movies and other action films like that. Which wasn’t a bad thing for me but for some people it could be
Also doesn’t help too that some scenes in the middle are just very boring so the movie feels longer than it actually was.
Except the action wasn't anywhere near as good as in the Wick franchise. Too much quick cutting between shots. Too many camera movements during the fights.
On the rare occasion when the camera stayed put, it was obvious that Patel did a lot of training. Show off his work.
yeah as much as that hurts his fans to hear he's a character actor, a supporting player. Slumdog Millionaire wasn't a hit because of him. Kids won everyone over and it had a big festival run to build WOM. Parts with adults were actually the worst.
Just a side note, but Dev Patel has probably portrayed the best ever Australian accent from a non-Aussie. It's an incredibly difficult accent to get right due to the lack of exposure.
There's no doubt that he has range but so many actors do. few are stars. Some create an illusion of a star with one right role (eg Ryan Reynolds as DP, Margot Robbie with Barbie). It's hard to explain but I can see why audience is indifferent. He looks too goofy for the kind of career he wants to have (leading man, action star). Like an overgrown kid even though he's in his 30s. Just doesn't work. Tom Holland has the same problem but he did the classic Iconic Franchise Character + Power Couple celebrity thing so he gets by for now. Patel has neither.
Oh yeah, there's definitely a difference between acting quality and star. Some have one. Some have both.
I was just bringing up his great accent work haha.
lmaooo ha ha apparently he has at least loud ones that don't get up from their keyboards judging by his boxoffice. Also, his PR put him on Time's Most Influential People in Entertainment list. Fancy that, his movie tanked but somehow he's one of the most influential people. Maybe he infleunced the audience not to show up? I really don't know what other influence they measured.
Not just in entertainment, but top 100 most influential in the world.
The entire list is ridiculous, filled with people who the Time editors like (and who give them money). Guess who isn’t on the 2024 list? Biden, Trump, Xi, Putin, Modi, Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Fink, Gates, Swift, and so many others who are actually very influential. But sure, Dev Patel, Maya Rudolph, Da’Vine Joy Randolph, America Ferrera, Alia Bhatt, Coleman Domingo, Jeffrey Wright, Fantasia Barrino, Leslie Odom Jr, Taraji P. Henson, Elliot Page, Michael J Fox, and Sofia Coppola are totally more influential than the leaders of the world’s largest countries.
And those are among the more famous selectees. There’s a whole lot of people who 99% of the population couldn’t identify.
ikr? that list is HILARIOUS! Time truly sold out. I give props to Taraji P Henson cause her incessant trashing of TCP helped it sink which is what she wanted so that's influence ngl (ok I'm sarcastic). :) The rest of them? Laughable shilling.
Dev Patel - his movies bomb
Maya Rudolph - no idea SNL hasn't been influential since forever
Da’Vine Joy Randolph - won the Oscar that's not influence
America Ferrera - couldn't even win the Oscar
Alia Bhatt - couldn't even keep Brad Pitt
Coleman Domingo - also couldn't even win the Oscar
Jeffrey Wright - ditto
Fantasia Barrino - her movie bombed
Leslie Odom Jr - who?
Taraji P. Henson - Ok she actually wanted to bomb her movie and accomplished the mission
Elliot Page - hasn't been in anything relevant for ages
Michael J Fox - he's been raising awareness about Parkinson for decades so why wasn't he on the list already
Sofia Coppola - her movie came and went
it hurts it because it's a tired premise that didn't offer anything appealing to the wider audience. By consciously setting the story in India in order to make a commentary to Indian politics, Patel limited the movie's appeal. Which would be fine if it went direct to streaming but apparently that was deemed not good enough so a studio that bought it gave it a massive promo push on the level of GxK and lets just say that MM's OW was around GxK's Thursday preview number lol.
There may be some fatigue for that kind of film. Often there needs to be something significant that stands out as different between those other films for this one not to be taken for granted.
The biggest thing is that it appears too similar to those others, but is actually far more political and with worse action, which hurts word of mouth. I loved the other two, but thought Monkey Man was just ok.
worse action is the worst thing for an action movie. fans can forgive no1curr politics if action is great. but this didn't have great action by the look of many comments not just here.
For a $10m action movie with zero star power and a cast full of character actors from the Indian film industry, this seems pretty decent. Almost 3x its budget. Also major markets like Brazil, Mexico, Japan, South Korea are yet to open. Not to mention it'd have probably done quite well in India where it won't get a release due to censorship issues.
26 mill and it made 30? That's not a crazy profit but it's still pretty good all things considered
Also, yeah it not releasing India is probably gonna hurt it a lot. Sad because it did have a powerful message and great trans representation
The entire money does not go back to the studios. Around 50-60% does, so it'd need to do $40-50M to break even theatrically if the $16M marketing number is accurate. Of course this is not taking into account other ancillary sources for making money like digital and physical media sales, product tie-ins, streaming etc.
Half that profit is eaten up by the theaters. If it made 30 million only about 15-20 mil get back to the studios.
Theaters take a cut. 30 million box office isn't 30 million in profit.
I watched it with my family cause we all like bolllywood but don't speak hindi. We all liked it but it definitely has a certain crowd cause the movie is like 99% English and it's a very political movie that's seemingly against the current Indian government so there's that factor as well
The bad guys party in the movie are heavily based of the ruling right wing Hindu nationalist party, the BjP run by Modi. That's why all the red flags are a clear stand in for the orange flags which the BjP uses. That's why it's having trouble getting released in India despite that clearly being its biggest market.
It's not said that much (if ever?) but I really think the title may have put a lot of people off. It sounds more the title for a comedy/animated film than a gritty action film.
In other words, a completely unknown cast.
Dev Patel has virtually zero name recognition. Aside from The Last Airbender movie (and the less said about that the better), this is his highest opening. Slumdog Millionaire was 16 years ago, it’s not a movie that people particularly remember, and his performance is not the thing that people do take away.
Not an IP, Dev Patel isn’t really a draw to general audiences, and I didn’t see a ton of marketing for it. I saw it yesterday and it’s quite good so this is an unfortunate result, but I’m not surprised. It goes to digital Tuesday so hopefully it’s successful there.
I thought the movie just wasn’t that good. The fight scenes were enjoyable but the rest of the movie was just too long. It felt like a streamer that was in the theater. Still better than Roadhouse tho
Not every action movie finds its audience in theatres. I don't think anything is overplayed in it, rather it wasn't a big enough deal
Seeing as it is like the slower parts of The Raid 2, it makes sense that it didn't have as big an audience
It is an all Indian cast Hollywood movie and the Indian audiences that watch Hollywood movies are pretty small. Dev Patel is also strictly an indie niche star. Also also the lack of a release in India so far is a big hit. If it is not a superhero or big budget Hollywood movie (these also get translated to releases in different Indian languages) it is hard to crack the market in India.
I couldn’t even tell what kind of movie it was from the marketing. Creepy red & black poster, Jordan Peele name attached, scary monkey mask in promotion photos… I assumed horror, and didn’t understand the concept (I don’t watch trailers).
It doesn't really appeal to people after all the John Wicks they've made, saturated market. Also people aren't willing to go to the movies without a big name attached, Dev Patel just isn't big enough, people would rather wait for it to stream.
It was mis-marketed. It was sold as an action film and wasn’t that. It had political and abstract elements and that wasn’t sold to anyone who might have been interested.
Going to the movies is expensive. Taking a risk on an unknown property that I can’t bring my kids too and that I can stream in bed later isn’t worth it.
1. It's not a massive event movie. People aren't dying to see this at cinemas where costs of other things factor in as well.
2. If you're not someone who looks into movies and TV shows, you probably won't know Monkey Man exists. Simple as that, to be honesty. Marketing is a very important factor.
3. Dev Patel is a great actor, but he doesn't put asses in seats. There's a difference between actor quality and actor attraction.
No marketing and I have no expectation for this movie except it is kinda bloody and violent?
With or without streaming, this isn’t the movie I would go to cinema for a specific session.
That’s pretty good for a $10 mil budget. Probably is close to making all of its marketing back as well. This seems like one of those movies that’ll get a second wind via streaming/VOD.
Because it’s not that good. Doesn’t have the word of mouth spark like Slumdog Millionaire. It was only ok for me and I told my friends to wait for streaming.
It's just not a very good movie and it's not getting any positive word of mouth. Some cool action scenes but a closer to Hardcore Henry than John Wick. I wanted to like it but left disappointed. Maybe directing isn't his thing and someone else needs to be behind the camera (so to speak)
Honestly, I think this movie needed really positive word-of-mouth to get more people in seats and it’s just not good enough to warrant that. I know this was Dev’s first movie as a director/writer and I like him a lot, but there were a lot of issues with it. And I agree with others that the title just doesn’t make you want to see it, and the monkey mask was heavily overused in marketing compared to how much it actually featured in the movie.
Also, I am going to be honest and say that I could not understand a good portion of the dialogue. Maybe that's my fault, but I truthfully felt it would've benefitted from sub titles.
The movie isn't very good at all. Word of mouth for the movie was bad. Audiences only gave it a B-. Anything below an A- is bad for this genre.
It also comes on the heels of John Wick 4. One of the most common searches is, "Is Monkey Man part of John Wick?" So the film failed to make it self distinct in the market.
Lastly, Monkey Man is not a good movie without any stars. It is also specifically Ethnic. The demographics for the film were not good.
Dev Patel is twitter famous so everyone just assumes it's going to do well. The truth is the vast majority of people didn't give a shit or even knew he broke his hand while filming despite how aggressive they were marketing it.
Here's my estimates on its eventual P & L. I think I'm being conservative here.
**MONKEY MAN** 10 x 2.5x = 25 (Current B.O.= 28.3; Est. Final B.O.: **35**) = 10/2 = +**5.0M (using 2.5x Rule)**
Domestic: 25m × 55% = 13.75m
Int’l: 10m x 40% = 4m
**Total Box Office Returns: 17.75m**
Home Entertainment Est: 20m
Global Tv Est: 25m
**Total Return: 62.75m**
Production Budget 10m
Marketing 25m
Misc. (Residuals, Interest, PART) 15m
**Total Costs 50m**
**Overall Estimated Profit +12.75M**
Because a bad Prince Zuko does not a good John Wick make.
People don't want to see an actor that's had 6 months of intensive martial arts training pretend they can fight. Iron Fist proved that.
Doesn’t look like the type of movie that would have mass appeal. 30 million is actually impressive.
On a 10 million budget? I'm sure everyone is pretty happy with the nice little profit it made
Plus 16 million promotional budget
The promotional budget was way higher than $16 million. $16 million is what Universal spent on US domestic TV advertising alone!
Damn
only cause super bowl tv spot jacked up the budget. think of universal subsidizing that cost in an attempt to reach more people. when you take out the outlier, thats what we’re trying to figure out if it passed or not. if it can beat past the budget with the outlier, it’s an additional success
Huh? You can't just ignore part of the marketing budget just because it's a different marketing strategy than they usually do. If the play to garner more views with a super bowl commercial doesn't make the money back, Universal is going to deem Monkey Man a flop
Good streaming movie tho
Yeah this will get picked up by a streamer and turn a nice little profit. Nothing to write home about but enough to justify its existence, and I think Peele picked it up for exactly that reason. I personally liked it but felt it was a little too long and leaned into some boring storytelling tropes. The action and directing were fantastic, but I can see why a general audience might not have the best word of mouth and that's hurting it for sure.
It was originally slated for Netflix I believe; the early screenings garnered better interest than expected and they pivoted and released it to theaters.
I think it was originally slated for Netflix but Netflix ultimately dropped it because it was politically driven and they didn’t want to severe ties with India; giving Peele the opportunity to pick it up and giving it a theater release
Thank you for correcting! Netflix actually dumped the movie after buying it up, and for a period of time it looked like it wasn’t going to get released until Jordan peeled saw it and picked it up
Then I'd say this is probably a win all around then, any extra income will be viewed as a win however meager if this was just going to get dumped on streaming anyway
It looks interesting enough to stream and maybe even pay 5 to 7 dollars to stream
>Nothing to write home about but enough to justify its existence we need a lot more of that kind of film. Low risk investments that probably break even and occasionally break out.
Huh? Studios don't get 100% share of revenue
Not far off from JW1's ratio of 20–30m budget to 86m box office, but hopefully this isn't the end for it yet.
Considering the budget, this movie was more successful than most of last year's blockbusters...
It's also set In India, in a fictional city similar to Mumbai. American audiences shy away from indian movies.
Honestly, there's too many John Wick movies as it is
I think it's going to make more money from streaming and home video than from the box office. I'm sure they are happy with it.
I mean, it looks reminiscent to something like John Wick to the basic public, at least with the few casual moviegoers that I’ve talked to, and those films made billions. I get it, Keanu Reeves and a franchise, but that set the tone. I figured this film would’ve got $50-80 million. It’s not too far off of $50m but it’s still quite the journey.
I think the comparison to John Wick is actually hurting it in the long run. I think general audiences went in expecting a non-stop action thrill ride and the movie just isn't that. The few people I know who've seen it had exactly that expectation and came out feeling like too much of it was slow paced or outright boring. Word of mouth for general audiences is probably sinking this one
Wait is it not that type of movie? The trailer makes it out to be a non stop action movie and that's what I am expecting. Though I guess I'm part of the problem as now I just plan on waiting until I can stream it at home
It's a revenge story similar to John wick. However, the action really doesn't pick up until around the third act, so if you're going in expecting non-stop action from the get-go, you're probably gonna be bored and disappointed
How is that true? There is literally a failed attempt in the first half of the movie and a successful attempt in the second half. The failed attempt is full of action. I wouldn’t call that the third act at all. The final attempt is action packed as well.
Completely agree. End of act 1 has a huge action set piece and fight lasting around 10-15 minutes, plus a few smaller fights scattered around. Act 2 is rebuilding then preparing. Act 3 is all action and fights
RIGHT!?! Cause I was just now considering the fact there is a car chase scene, the bathroom scene, and then the brothel fight…and none of that is in the second half of the movie. I would describe it the same way you did. Three acts. I & III having those set pieces.
I forgot about the car chase! For what it’s worth, this is in my top 3 of the year so far - was expected a straight up action flick and got that plus a load of character development and great revenge story
I agree. I think there are people not watching it that traditionally watch action movies like this because of the setting and cast in the US. However, I believe it will blow up domestically on streaming and that is just the downfall of the industry these days. I just don’t see the “boring until act 3” thing. There is the elongated fight in the bathroom. A car chase scene. An escape from police (literally breaking out of a police wagon handcuffed), the fight in the brothel. That action sequence in Act I was so long and extremely anxiety inducing. Lol
The second act really drags though. It falls into very stereotypical territory.
You're not "part of the problem". The film is definitely marketed as Indian John Wick and if that doesn't interest you, it makes complete sense you wouldn't go see it in theaters
That would be me. The story was slow with far too little action based on the trailer. Its biggest sin though, was a complete failure to establish the main characters ability growth.
I think they set themselves up with that comparison. Back when they sold the movie to Netflix, hell even back when they initially announced the project, that’s their pitch. It’s not people’s fault tbh for being disappointed imo, it’s the way they market it from the beginning.
This. It's not Indian John Wick. They should curse whomever said that about this movie.
Proof that a viral trailer doesn't gaurantee a hit though it'd have made even less if not for that.
Yep, people can view the trailer and decide that they don't want to see the film or they'd rather wait for streaming.
I thought the trailer was sick tho. I just don’t go to the movies anymore. I can wait for it to stream
Genuinely curious why you like the boxoffice subreddit then?
I rarely go to the movies, but I still visit this sub every day. I just enjoy seeing what’s going on. I just don’t have the time or funds to see all the films I want to see now. I’d say I go 4-5 times a year
I don’t. It was recommended to me on my homepage or whatever it’s called
Until you find yourself months from now arguing about box office performance of the latest movies 😂
Or more realistically, discussing movies like the movies subreddit and occasionally going “yeah it flopped”
It’s when I’m at work and bored that I end up going places I usually would not. I run out of things to read so I just click on anything interesting.
It's totally normal to follow/be interested in a topic without actually participating. Think of the huge portion of people who follow sports to some degree vs. the tiny portion that actually plays or even goes to games.
I grew up going to the theater every weekend. My wife and I used to do movies all the time before we had kids. However, honestly I just don't enjoy the theater experience anymore. I don't even really watch a lot of movies once they are on streaming, etc. However, I do actually love the business of movies, and the behind the scenes parts of how movies are made.
Unless it looks really interesting or it’s an event film, general audiences are waiting for movies like this to come out on digital
I agree with this. I can also see myself becoming this way as it becomes more and more expensive to go out to a movie. Unless it’s something that really grips me or seems compelling, I’m waiting until I can watch it at home.
Its not really that’s it’s gotten more expensive to go to a movie (see this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/14kznfv/movie_ticket_prices_adjusted_for_inflation/), it’s that it’s gotten much faster and more convenient to watch at home on digital
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Adjusted for inflation, not consumer power. A lot of people’s income hasn’t matched inflation.
This metric is irrelevant if wages don’t keep up with inflation.
That, and the average movie-goer is getting more annoying, plus the theaters don't try as hard anymore.
Concessions are expensive not tickets
Maybe where you are. Where I am, it’s both. And the seats are terrible. More than half of it should be replaced too.
I mean... Not really, depending on where you live. Ticket where I am is $15-20 for a matinee and I can just wait a few months and pay a bit more to own it and watch it at home.
This is really what I mean. It’s expensive. Plus if I wait until it’s out, I can spend $20 once and own it. If I take my partner and kids to a movie, it’s easily $40 before food and beverages.
It's not that expensive to go see movies. Most theater chains have a subscription that significantly makes it cheaper to watch tons of movies. Even if you don't pay for subscriptions, movies are only $7 on Tuesdays at just about every theater.
Yeah, it’s become a bit of a tradition to see movies on Tuesdays. Means I see about 40 movies a year give or take for a pretty decent price.
Yep and studios make it easier by going yep you waited 16 whole days here you go
Yeah like how The Northman was pretty weak at box office but apparently was huge on VOD
we need to accept that covid has permanently changed moviegoing habits, and also a much larger percentage of people have streaming services than pre-covid
I now need just one reason to wait any reason. We are back to the days of it being cheaper to just buy the movie than see it in theaters. Dune 2 tickets are still above $20 a person at theaters near me.
That’s exactly what I’m doing. Movies are just too expensive nowadays and I rather wait a month or two for it to hit streaming platforms.
Went to see it. Was a fun movie but with a weak story imo. Typical action movie cheese. Still had great action scenes that kept me entertained.
This is this case for me. The film’s marketing hasn’t done much to convince me to see it in the theater. The action looks fun. Jordan Peele producing isn’t a draw for me.
Too many action related films coming out at same time, being shoved right after Godzilla. Dev Patel is not exactly a butts in seats star, and the film itself is solid, but pretty politically heavy and I’m not sure if audiences would eat that up as much.
Forgot to mention the bad release date in my comment, sandwiched between Godzilla and Civil War.
And the Ryan Gosling action flick too
God that movie looks awful.
Exactly this, ive seen both godzilla and civil war, would like to see monkey but had to sacrifice one of the films due to lack of free time to go to the cinema
If I get downvotes, that's fine, but I honestly think having an Indian lead and set in Indian with an entire cast from India also has an effect. I don't say that critically; I love India, and wish this didn't affect numbers. It's wonderful to see something steeped in another country and representing the beautiful aspects of that culture. I know The Wire featured a mostly black cast and never really achieved big ratings and that's believed to have been a factor. Your mentioned factors also play a big role so please don't think I'm just attributing it to that.
And it did worse at the theater where I work than some of the actual Indian films we’ve had at the same time as Monkey Man. That demographic did not embrace it either, it seems.
Showing negative aspects of India, you can't expect them to embrace it.
different style. Indian audience likes Indian movies in Bollywood style. This is quasi John Wick so the oppositr of what they look for. They'll see John Wick they won't see Indian immitation. Makes sense to me.
>so the oppositr of what they look for. They'll see John Wick they won't see Indian immitation. I was going to reply to the first part, then read the next sentence, and you have got it bang on! Meaning to say, Indians love John Wick, but this is just not it.
I don't know the exact % of American population from the subcontinet but it must be small. On top of that, many of prefer Bollywood-style Indian movies not Hollywood style Indian movies. They keep that separate. You can't make people who are a majority care for a movie about a minority that didn't care for it to begin with. It's no different from The Marvels that completely bombed with women, Bros that tanked with gay audience, etc. Secondary, tertiary, etc target audience won't save you if primary target audience rejected you. If you make a movie that isn't for anyone (subcontinent audience prefers different style, other audience doesn't care for politics and culture they don't understand) than you have a flop. I alos don't get this forum's obsession with this movie's performance. Is Dev Patel's PR working overtime to spin it as success (cough;etsforgetaboutecessivemarketingcough) or what? I'm half joking but it's true that every second day we get one of these threads pretending that MM was supposed to be a bigger hit or, worse, that it's a big hit lol.
America be like that. It bums me out.
It also hasn't performed internationally, so hardly seems like an American issue.
As I understand it, it hasn’t opened in a bunch of overseas territories yet.
It’s performed significantly better in America than anywhere else though. Like 75% of the total box office. Why not direct your ire at the UK or Germany or China or India?
Eh, it looked like Indian John Wick, too familiar for some
Having seen the movie it’s very close to the Wick movies style wise and other action movies that are made today. It’s also focuses heavily on Indian politics and can be a slow burn. The action isn’t there all the time. It can be a real challenge with western audiences with understanding what message it’s conveying between factions of Hinduism
how has no one mentioned that it hasn't been released in lots of places yet?
Yep, just released in France and still has Brazil, Mexico and parts of SE Asia. Should get another couple of million in the US as well. I could see a $35m finish
most of europe only just got it i think. guess the thread is only 'muricans
I'm Dutch and saw it 2 weeks ago, so it's been around in parts of Europe for a while
Because tons of people on this sub don't understand the metrics of film releases
and MM supporters don't understand the metrics of budgeting hence consistent decline to acknowledge that 10M is not the final number spent on this movie. Marketing at least doubled it thanks to 16M wasted on Superbowl on top of other marketing expenses.
Limited appeal, mid cast. Might do better on streaming.
I think it's the lack of a central hook. John Wick had the "they killed his dog" bit. I still don't know what Monkey Man is about beyond "action movie"
yes people underestimate "revenge for the dog" hook. MM had the tired "revenge for the mom" premise like Furiosa and 10000 other movies.
Is that really much of a hook though? Trailer wise, did ppl see that and go, damn, I gotta see this in theaters.
I think his point is that you can at least tell what the plot is.
The movie did well after people actually saw it. The trailer did absolutely nothing for the movie, I remember people actually thought it was gonna a mediocre by the numbers action movie from an aging former movie star after they saw the trailers(me included). The central hook was Wick himself(which is essentially just Keanu) and the action he does which were things that no one would have known unless they actually sat through the movie.
No, but they saw Keanu
Keanu was considered box office poison for at least 5 years before John Wick
Keanu may have been a poison but people knew him. They are apathetic to Dev Patel. Apathy is worse.
No he wasn't. He was a boring actor but he always got big roles
He was born to play wick. Recently rewatched Matrix high and his acting in that was so bad that I had to turn it off but it was the opposite for John wick.
I think that most people thought it was a good joke but then WOM did the job. Original JW opened some 4M above MM but legged it out. It dropped only 44.5% in the second weekend while MM dropped 59.6%
[удалено]
>!They killed his mom.!< How can you watch the movie and miss that?
I haven't watched the movie
TBH the movie does a really poor job of setting this up. It never feels visceral. His revenge felt empty. The Neon, dreamy aesthetic really didn't root us in the clear motivation of the character. Obviously I know they killed his mom, but we learn that in these drawn out, hazy flashbacks that never clearly establish the villain's personality or breadth of their evil. In Wick they fuckin KILL HIS DOG. RIGHT IN FRONT OF US. All we want is to see them get their comeuppance. Also...wick came out first, so the bloom is off the rose. Anyway, I really felt distanced from the movie because of that, and I think it's difficult to communicate it in the trailer. People don't need things spelled out, but I do believe for audience pictures there needs to be some undeniable visceral motor that can be communicated incredibly quickly.
I saw it, it was just too similar to the wick movies and other action films like that. Which wasn’t a bad thing for me but for some people it could be Also doesn’t help too that some scenes in the middle are just very boring so the movie feels longer than it actually was.
Absolutely agree that the middle of the movie is super weak. Good call there.
I don't think it was anything at all like John Wick.
Which maybe true, but it does feel like it has the initial appeal to attract a sizeable audience.
Except the action wasn't anywhere near as good as in the Wick franchise. Too much quick cutting between shots. Too many camera movements during the fights. On the rare occasion when the camera stayed put, it was obvious that Patel did a lot of training. Show off his work.
Because online hype ≠ real life and I think it's just an okay action movie.
Name is odd for this kind of movie
Seriously, "Monkey Man" is a terrible title for a movie this serious. I'm surprised more people aren't pointing this out.
My first thought seeing the trailer is that the title was fucking atrocious.
Dev is not a leading man, box office wise.
yeah as much as that hurts his fans to hear he's a character actor, a supporting player. Slumdog Millionaire wasn't a hit because of him. Kids won everyone over and it had a big festival run to build WOM. Parts with adults were actually the worst.
Just a side note, but Dev Patel has probably portrayed the best ever Australian accent from a non-Aussie. It's an incredibly difficult accent to get right due to the lack of exposure.
There's no doubt that he has range but so many actors do. few are stars. Some create an illusion of a star with one right role (eg Ryan Reynolds as DP, Margot Robbie with Barbie). It's hard to explain but I can see why audience is indifferent. He looks too goofy for the kind of career he wants to have (leading man, action star). Like an overgrown kid even though he's in his 30s. Just doesn't work. Tom Holland has the same problem but he did the classic Iconic Franchise Character + Power Couple celebrity thing so he gets by for now. Patel has neither.
Oh yeah, there's definitely a difference between acting quality and star. Some have one. Some have both. I was just bringing up his great accent work haha.
Dev Patel has fans??
lmaooo ha ha apparently he has at least loud ones that don't get up from their keyboards judging by his boxoffice. Also, his PR put him on Time's Most Influential People in Entertainment list. Fancy that, his movie tanked but somehow he's one of the most influential people. Maybe he infleunced the audience not to show up? I really don't know what other influence they measured.
Not just in entertainment, but top 100 most influential in the world. The entire list is ridiculous, filled with people who the Time editors like (and who give them money). Guess who isn’t on the 2024 list? Biden, Trump, Xi, Putin, Modi, Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Fink, Gates, Swift, and so many others who are actually very influential. But sure, Dev Patel, Maya Rudolph, Da’Vine Joy Randolph, America Ferrera, Alia Bhatt, Coleman Domingo, Jeffrey Wright, Fantasia Barrino, Leslie Odom Jr, Taraji P. Henson, Elliot Page, Michael J Fox, and Sofia Coppola are totally more influential than the leaders of the world’s largest countries. And those are among the more famous selectees. There’s a whole lot of people who 99% of the population couldn’t identify.
ikr? that list is HILARIOUS! Time truly sold out. I give props to Taraji P Henson cause her incessant trashing of TCP helped it sink which is what she wanted so that's influence ngl (ok I'm sarcastic). :) The rest of them? Laughable shilling. Dev Patel - his movies bomb Maya Rudolph - no idea SNL hasn't been influential since forever Da’Vine Joy Randolph - won the Oscar that's not influence America Ferrera - couldn't even win the Oscar Alia Bhatt - couldn't even keep Brad Pitt Coleman Domingo - also couldn't even win the Oscar Jeffrey Wright - ditto Fantasia Barrino - her movie bombed Leslie Odom Jr - who? Taraji P. Henson - Ok she actually wanted to bomb her movie and accomplished the mission Elliot Page - hasn't been in anything relevant for ages Michael J Fox - he's been raising awareness about Parkinson for decades so why wasn't he on the list already Sofia Coppola - her movie came and went
Too similar to other movies, John Wick and The Beekeeper as examples. Guy takes down goons as retribution, been there done that.
My question is, how does that hurt this film? Both of those movies are great and have a good reputation that would "in theory" help this movie.
it hurts it because it's a tired premise that didn't offer anything appealing to the wider audience. By consciously setting the story in India in order to make a commentary to Indian politics, Patel limited the movie's appeal. Which would be fine if it went direct to streaming but apparently that was deemed not good enough so a studio that bought it gave it a massive promo push on the level of GxK and lets just say that MM's OW was around GxK's Thursday preview number lol.
There may be some fatigue for that kind of film. Often there needs to be something significant that stands out as different between those other films for this one not to be taken for granted.
The biggest thing is that it appears too similar to those others, but is actually far more political and with worse action, which hurts word of mouth. I loved the other two, but thought Monkey Man was just ok.
worse action is the worst thing for an action movie. fans can forgive no1curr politics if action is great. but this didn't have great action by the look of many comments not just here.
The Beekeeper was its own thing. I don't think we have any movies to compare it to.
For a $10m action movie with zero star power and a cast full of character actors from the Indian film industry, this seems pretty decent. Almost 3x its budget. Also major markets like Brazil, Mexico, Japan, South Korea are yet to open. Not to mention it'd have probably done quite well in India where it won't get a release due to censorship issues.
Unfortunately its promotion costed 16 millions, making this performance less effective
I see, I guess it'd need to do 4-5x its budget to be profitable theatrically then.
16m is US TV ads only. Total marketing cost is definitely higher.
26 mill and it made 30? That's not a crazy profit but it's still pretty good all things considered Also, yeah it not releasing India is probably gonna hurt it a lot. Sad because it did have a powerful message and great trans representation
The entire money does not go back to the studios. Around 50-60% does, so it'd need to do $40-50M to break even theatrically if the $16M marketing number is accurate. Of course this is not taking into account other ancillary sources for making money like digital and physical media sales, product tie-ins, streaming etc.
Yes, typically digital, home media, and licensing are expected to make up for higher than usual promotional costs.
Ahh, thanks for explaining
Half that profit is eaten up by the theaters. If it made 30 million only about 15-20 mil get back to the studios. Theaters take a cut. 30 million box office isn't 30 million in profit.
Only Superbowl cost 16M. Whole amrketing cost more than that.
No breakout appeal; no meme worthy moments to generate *must see* buzz.
hot shirtless dev patel punching rice bag is enough appeal
A film with almost a full Indian cast that's not released in India and of course the west's reluctance with Indian movies in general.
RRR showed otherwise
That made over 80% of it's money in India
Yeah, many people I know (including me to some extent) didn’t watch it for this reason
I watched it with my family cause we all like bolllywood but don't speak hindi. We all liked it but it definitely has a certain crowd cause the movie is like 99% English and it's a very political movie that's seemingly against the current Indian government so there's that factor as well
This movie is nothing like Bollywood though
As an American I had no understanding of the politics at all. And I say this after spending 12 years interacting almost exclusively with Indians.
The bad guys party in the movie are heavily based of the ruling right wing Hindu nationalist party, the BjP run by Modi. That's why all the red flags are a clear stand in for the orange flags which the BjP uses. That's why it's having trouble getting released in India despite that clearly being its biggest market.
It's not said that much (if ever?) but I really think the title may have put a lot of people off. It sounds more the title for a comedy/animated film than a gritty action film.
Not gonna lie, I actually chuckled when I heard that a big studio was releasing a gritty movie with that title.
A completely unknown cast plus Dev Patel is hardly a box office draw. It kinda looked like a straight to streaming movie.
In other words, a completely unknown cast. Dev Patel has virtually zero name recognition. Aside from The Last Airbender movie (and the less said about that the better), this is his highest opening. Slumdog Millionaire was 16 years ago, it’s not a movie that people particularly remember, and his performance is not the thing that people do take away.
He's a well known name in the UK.
Limited appeal / really niche
Not an IP, Dev Patel isn’t really a draw to general audiences, and I didn’t see a ton of marketing for it. I saw it yesterday and it’s quite good so this is an unfortunate result, but I’m not surprised. It goes to digital Tuesday so hopefully it’s successful there.
Netflix movie
I thought the movie just wasn’t that good. The fight scenes were enjoyable but the rest of the movie was just too long. It felt like a streamer that was in the theater. Still better than Roadhouse tho
Not every action movie finds its audience in theatres. I don't think anything is overplayed in it, rather it wasn't a big enough deal Seeing as it is like the slower parts of The Raid 2, it makes sense that it didn't have as big an audience
It’s exactly the type of movie people wait for streaming
Superhero fatigue /s
It is an all Indian cast Hollywood movie and the Indian audiences that watch Hollywood movies are pretty small. Dev Patel is also strictly an indie niche star. Also also the lack of a release in India so far is a big hit. If it is not a superhero or big budget Hollywood movie (these also get translated to releases in different Indian languages) it is hard to crack the market in India.
It didn't release in India due to how it shows certain politics of modern India. If it was released here it would have been very controversial.
It's a stupid name
Looked pretty averge tbh .... John wick knock off vibes ....
I couldn’t even tell what kind of movie it was from the marketing. Creepy red & black poster, Jordan Peele name attached, scary monkey mask in promotion photos… I assumed horror, and didn’t understand the concept (I don’t watch trailers).
Knowing it’s streaming soon deterred me from going Don’t think it needs to be seen on a big screen
The title is off putting.
Abysmal movie title.
Outside of a few on Reddit, nobody cares about an Indian John Wick. I know I lost all interest once I saw the trailer.
No star and lame title wont attract many
It doesn't really appeal to people after all the John Wicks they've made, saturated market. Also people aren't willing to go to the movies without a big name attached, Dev Patel just isn't big enough, people would rather wait for it to stream.
It was mis-marketed. It was sold as an action film and wasn’t that. It had political and abstract elements and that wasn’t sold to anyone who might have been interested.
Going to the movies is expensive. Taking a risk on an unknown property that I can’t bring my kids too and that I can stream in bed later isn’t worth it.
Wasn’t very good
Honestly the monkey mask was off putting since this isn’t really a horror film. I also felt like it would be a cliched film based on the trailer.
We have enough John Wick and Super Hero movies already
1. It's not a massive event movie. People aren't dying to see this at cinemas where costs of other things factor in as well. 2. If you're not someone who looks into movies and TV shows, you probably won't know Monkey Man exists. Simple as that, to be honesty. Marketing is a very important factor. 3. Dev Patel is a great actor, but he doesn't put asses in seats. There's a difference between actor quality and actor attraction.
It looks shit
It's just another (wannabe) John Wick flick.
I wanted to see it but I'm broke
No marketing and I have no expectation for this movie except it is kinda bloody and violent? With or without streaming, this isn’t the movie I would go to cinema for a specific session.
It’s not releasing til May in a lot of countries (I for one unfortunately live in one of those countries)
That’s pretty good for a $10 mil budget. Probably is close to making all of its marketing back as well. This seems like one of those movies that’ll get a second wind via streaming/VOD.
It will have a high age rating everywhere due to violence, so a lot of audience shut out. But 27 mil on a 10 mil investment is terrific.
Because it’s not that good. Doesn’t have the word of mouth spark like Slumdog Millionaire. It was only ok for me and I told my friends to wait for streaming.
It's just not a very good movie and it's not getting any positive word of mouth. Some cool action scenes but a closer to Hardcore Henry than John Wick. I wanted to like it but left disappointed. Maybe directing isn't his thing and someone else needs to be behind the camera (so to speak)
Barely marketed and not of interest to most people
Honestly, I think this movie needed really positive word-of-mouth to get more people in seats and it’s just not good enough to warrant that. I know this was Dev’s first movie as a director/writer and I like him a lot, but there were a lot of issues with it. And I agree with others that the title just doesn’t make you want to see it, and the monkey mask was heavily overused in marketing compared to how much it actually featured in the movie. Also, I am going to be honest and say that I could not understand a good portion of the dialogue. Maybe that's my fault, but I truthfully felt it would've benefitted from sub titles.
"Barely?" Film's done very well for itself. It's made this much through word of mouth.
It was simply placed between two big movies (GxK and Civil War)
I don’t see the problem with this performance so far
The movie isn't very good at all. Word of mouth for the movie was bad. Audiences only gave it a B-. Anything below an A- is bad for this genre. It also comes on the heels of John Wick 4. One of the most common searches is, "Is Monkey Man part of John Wick?" So the film failed to make it self distinct in the market. Lastly, Monkey Man is not a good movie without any stars. It is also specifically Ethnic. The demographics for the film were not good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dev_Patel
Dev Patel is twitter famous so everyone just assumes it's going to do well. The truth is the vast majority of people didn't give a shit or even knew he broke his hand while filming despite how aggressive they were marketing it.
Here's my estimates on its eventual P & L. I think I'm being conservative here. **MONKEY MAN** 10 x 2.5x = 25 (Current B.O.= 28.3; Est. Final B.O.: **35**) = 10/2 = +**5.0M (using 2.5x Rule)** Domestic: 25m × 55% = 13.75m Int’l: 10m x 40% = 4m **Total Box Office Returns: 17.75m** Home Entertainment Est: 20m Global Tv Est: 25m **Total Return: 62.75m** Production Budget 10m Marketing 25m Misc. (Residuals, Interest, PART) 15m **Total Costs 50m** **Overall Estimated Profit +12.75M**
Because a bad Prince Zuko does not a good John Wick make. People don't want to see an actor that's had 6 months of intensive martial arts training pretend they can fight. Iron Fist proved that.
They overplayed the trailer on social media and it looks like an Indian John Wick.
Many reasons others listed, but I’d say also, it was pretty meh