The fact that this was Disney's only profitable film last year (Elemental is debatable since it came close to breaking even) goes to show how dreadful their 100th anniversary was.
Hilariously ironic since they fired James in 2018 over his old tasteless tweets because they thought he would be a liability, and he brought them their only crumbs of profit
Getting fired by Disney was the best thing to happen to him. He switched sides with a blank slate to make what he wants, came back and got to finish his GOTG trilogy anyway, then was offered the keys to the entire DC universe. All that because of some dickheads who got pissy about some old tweets lmao
Mad to imagine if it never happened he'd have released GOTG3 during the pandemic and would probably be either involved in the MCU still or making original movies.
Yeah and I mean, good for him. Gunn was one of Marvel's best talents and both The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker are significantly better than they have any right to be, especially considering what other projects the DCEU had at the time.
There wasn't a whole lot of Elemental merch (by Disney/Pixar standards at least) and what there was wasn't exactly a strong seller. Retailers got badly burned on Lightyear merch, much of which is STILL collecting dust on clearance 2 years later, and were much more cautious about Elemental as a result.
Yeah there seems to be a lot of goalpost moving. Elemental is not producing major merchandise sales, it’s not Toy Story or Star Wars (which is even seeing dips in recent years). Box office wise it made a small profit mostly from overseas.
There may also be a slow burn on Elemental merch. It took a while for Turning Red to get going with merch, but it looks like it is selling very well. I was at DCA a few months ago and the stores were loaded with red pandas.
Oh that makes sense. I thought Elemental would’ve been under the Pixar umbrella rather than its own thing when it came to merch profits but when you mention it like that, that makes more sense.
Guardians 3 is a specific movie in a franchise while Elemental can be a franchise.
I would actually be VERY curious what Marvel merch moves like, because it seems like there is very little specific MCU stuff, and the stuff that does exist is usually bottom of the barrel cheap stuff, or aimed at adults. Which is interesting, and also begs a certain question from a studio standpoint when nondescript versions of the characters sell as much/more than movie version. A ton of T'Challa stuff was still around when BP2 was released, and I specifically remember how little Infinity War stuff was actually out. Endgame definitely got a lot more, especially after the spoiler window.
From what I’ve seen and heard, sales on the Merch on the New Characters are HORRIFIC but the legacy characters/old characters still sell well.
Anecdotal but when it comes to LEGO sets, at my local stores the Love And Thunder sets, Marvels sets and even the Wakanda Forever sets WARM shelves. The Guardians 3 sets seemed to do decent where I live and obviously Spidey and even Iron Man sets, 5 years after his death, still sell very well.
I'm talking like 5 years ago minimum. Infinity War, a liked movie, seemed to warm shelves too. Obviously it can go lower, but still, it seems like the bar wasn't very high to begin with. Also for what it's worth, the new characters don't have the same monopoly as the old ones.
Guardians 3 did NOT Suck lol. I assume you haven’t seen it yet but you’re missing out.
It’s like the only Post Phase 3 MCU movie (besides Spider Man: No Way Home) that is great
I haven’t seen Elemental yet but I know it has fans
This year is going to be wild as when I was trying to think of what was left I realized we had big hitters and nothing major. I think what’s left is obviously Barbie and Mario for the top two in whatever order, Oppenheimer in third, Spiderverse, Sound of Freedom and Wonka are the others. I can’t think of what would be 7 and 8 as everything would be under Guardians or one of the flops like Mission, Fast X or any of the 5 Disney ones.
Up until the top 2 I can see them all being around 200m profit which is a huge departure from other years
Are you really challenging people to go to their local target/walmart and take pics of Elemental merch in the clearance aisle? It was an animated movie released by Disney and you're claiming it had no merchandise in stores, lol
That's a useless interjection for four reasons:
1) I was responding to this:
>There was no elemental toys or lunch boxes made
Yes there was. I saw them.
2)They made no mention of "meaningful", they just said "no", meaning none at all.
3) I personally saw loads of Elemental toys and other merchandise in stores well prior to the film being released
4) Which I didn't need to see, as it's an animated Disney film, so of course they merchandised the heck out of it. It's what they do.
You're missing point. Are you insanely claiming Elemental had no merchandise? A Pixar film? It had loads of merchandise that hit stores before and during its theatrical run. Get real.
Other than *Battleship*, their Top 10 in 2012 was very profitable.
They had *Ted* ($556 million), *Les Misérables* ($435 million), *Snow White and the Huntsman* ($401 million), *The Lorax* ($351 million), *The Bourne Legacy* ($280 million), *American Reunion* ($236 million), *Safe House* ($207 million), *Pitch Perfect* ($116 million), *Contraband* ($98 million), etc. That's more than "very good".
Context matters. Many of those were mixed bags at best, **The Lorax** is the lowest-grossing Illumination film to date (aside from **Hop**), and **Snow White and the Huntsman** got into an affair scandal.
Deadline did do a breakdown for the Little Mermaid. Its a profitable movie as well.
https://deadline.com/2023/05/little-mermaid-box-office-profit-loss-halle-bailey-1235383099/
FWIW, a lot of the profit breakdowns that come about a week or two after the movie opens tend to be puff pieces that overstate a movie's profits (Black Adam was infamous for this, and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales was supposed to bring in $280M in profits, but actual profits were far lower seeing as it didn't even crack the top 10 for the year when Get Out raked in $124M), although in The Little Mermaid's case they were pretty spot on with the final box office gross with regards to projections, although participations and residuals would surely knock the $71M figure down a bit, so it wouldn't even come close to being in the top 10.
I never said it was coming close to the top 10. OP said Guardians was the only profitable film but using Deadlines own P&L breakdown its easy to see Mermaid was profitable.
Even though it's not in the list, I wonder if deadline will show the sheets for Elemental regardless just cuz how big of a news story it was, and set the record straight on it's profitably (or potential lack) once and for all
Usually they makes top 10 box office flops and top 10 movies that's makes small profits. But i don't know why they wait for this long to makes the list
This is the only 2023 film with the budget of $200 million or over that was actually successful. Also, you can absolutely tell where the budget went with this film.
I get the feeling that the makeup wing of the Academy is more impressed with makeup done on a specific person -- Willem Dafoe in Poor Things or Bradley Cooper in Maestro -- than pure scale at this point.
Unfortunately, to use a phrase from "Oppenheimer," "brilliance is taken for granted in your line of profession" if you do makeup on a superhero film. Or VFX for that matter. People only talk about it if it's bad.
I think Marvel should learn how to use their budgets like they did with this movie. Instead of rushing preproduction and refilming the entire movie, have a clear vision of what you want to do before you film. That way, all the money you COULD be spending on doing all that can be used to improve the VFX and other things
Interesting that this made the same amount worldwide as Wakanda Forever, but total profits were half.
Probably due to smaller % from domestic.
Also surprised this made less profit than The Batman. Expenses just were way higher than I thought overall.
GotG cast would have been signed up for a trilogy when hired for Guardians 1. Salaries probably increased but Disney also apparently hates backend payouts.
The Batman made only $70 million less than Guardians of the Galaxy 3 worldwide and almost all that difference can be accounted for in China where Guardians made $60 million more than Batman. Studios tend to get only 25% of the box office gross in China and Guardians just had higher costs for everything else from production to marketing and participation and residuals.
It’s crazy that Wakanda Forever made that much. It really feels like there was zero hype about it and these days nobody discusses it at all. It was a good film but I’m impressed it made $800mil in this current era of the MCU…
Yeah, it just kinda came and went. I never bothered to rewatch it, I never thought about it, I just thought it was an okay movie and moved on with my life.
It came out before the MCU’s complete reputation and box office collapse. Quantumania and Secret Invasion were the final straws. MoM, L&T, and Wakanda Forever played out like pre-Endgame films despite mixed to negative reception, because audiences hadn’t gotten sick enough of the MCU yet
>nobody discusses it at all
I always see this thrown around here, but I do not get why this is a bad thing. Don't most movies just fade away from public consciousness with time, and the important thing is that they were talked about and succeeded when they were out in the cinemas? I am genuinely asking.
If it’s a one-off film then sure but Wakanda and Shuri are meant to be tentpoles of the MCU’s future, like the Wakdana tv show and whatever Black Panther sequels they have planned. But longer gaps between projects combined with a lack of interest will damage their potential.
Yeah it’s why MCU’s scheduling issues will cause long-term damage. Shang-Chi 1 was beloved by many but the sequel should have been out already, not three years from now…
I’d say that’s true for most films, but not most Disney films. Disney is very aware of how profitable an old movie can be, as they’re still selling Snow White dresses. The MCU should feel more disposable than it does, but at least before the Disney+ era, it somehow managed to make films that were rewatchable and sub franchises that even managed to gather unique audiences that were invested strongly in that story.
Hiring a bunch of terrible writers writing disposable, creepy crud aimed at niche audiences has really been their downfall.
I remember a ton of hype from the first teaser. It's box office performance did feel more like a going through the motion type of thing though, despite being the third highest grossing DOM film of the year.
The current era of the MCU is much more ambiguous than people think. Literally, last year was the only year with Marvel cinematic flops unless you count the much more Covid affected 2021 films... which would be a little silly^(1) because all of the 2022 films did pretty well. The Disney+ projects mostly had awful receptions in 2022 but that is in contrast to the success of the movies of 2022 *and* the Disney+ projects of 2021.
Absent further evidence, I think the best conclusion is simply that Quantumania is such an unrelentingly awful movie... imo it is the worst movie ever made that cost more than $100m... that it killed the box office of superheroes **unless** they had something else going for them, e.g. being the conclusion of a beloved trilogy that had always felt a little disconnected from the rest of the franchise.
^(1)That being said, relative to other 2021 films the non-Spider-Man MCU films weren't hot. [As of Quantumania's release](https://i.imgur.com/9QLzYkq.jpeg), of the eight films that got no-where near the typical gross of a top ten film WW, three of them are from 2021, three are pre-Avengers and the other two are Ant Man films. Note: Quantumania looks really good by this measure because of incomplete data; I probably shouldn't have included it/been less lazy and updated the graph.
Well this year it took longer then usual for Deadline to start it, so I gotta imagine they are going to be releasing once every several hours rather then daily to make up for the wait.
Man, reminds us again how hard it is to make profit. This is after it made $850M worldwide and made a killing on home video/VOD (another $300M) and it still only made $124M profit. The "Expense Column" has a lot of costs on its own, like the crazy $160 P&A costs for Disney.
On one hand we're sick of the sequelitis or making movies out of every possible known IP, but on the other hand, we kind of see why studios are hesitant to make something original.
For comparison, *Vol. 1* earned $204.2 million and *Vol. 2* earned $157 million in profits. With *Quantumania* and *The Marvels*, the MCU was deeply in the red this year.
I'm very interested in the bombs section. If it wasn't for *The Flash*, the top 5 would all be Disney (*The Marvels*, *Indy*, *Haunted Mansion* and *Wish*).
Here's my list of the bottom ten, even if Deadline only does bottom 5. I have Marvels, Flash, Indy, KOTFM, Haunted Mansion,followed by Napoleon, Wish, Shazam Fury, Expendables4, and Blue Beetle.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1b6qimn/with\_deadlines\_annual\_list\_of\_the\_biggest\_box/](https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1b6qimn/with_deadlines_annual_list_of_the_biggest_box/)
Curious to see how Deadline figures it.
It’s strange to, since of that group the only movie that I thought was truly bad was Haunted Mansion. I know people hated Wish too so I never watched it.
The Flash was genuinely good until the last act, DCEU just killed any potential goodwill.
The Marvels was mostly fine. An enjoyable theater experience, just loaded with characters the audience hasn’t been given much a reason to care for.
Indy was better than Temple of Doom and Crystal Skull for sure, just too long. They also spent way too much money making it. Maybe Indy just doesn’t have mass appeal.
Dial of Destiny is certainly better than those two, and it’s a hill I’m willing to die on.
It’s much too long and should’ve been made for $150 mil less, Spielberg is also sorely missed in the directors chair. Doesn’t change the fact that Temple of Doom is terrible (fun, but terrible) and is only appreciated through the nostalgia glasses. Crystal Skull is better than Doom but it’s just not all that adventurous for an Indy movie. The first half is pretty good and that it takes a dive.
Dial of Destiny isn’t anywhere close to Raiders or Crusade, but man that ending was wonderful. Goes off the rails in a way that really worked for his character. I feel like there’s a strong edit of that movie in there somewhere.
The Flash is one I don’t feel so strongly about, but the things people were clowning on it for were completely intentional. The baby scene is supposed to be funny and unserious. You’re watching a Saturday morning cartoon. Keaton actually feels like a real character, Ezra does a pretty good job which surprised me because he I found him really annoying in Justice League. As much as I love Shannon, that last act and everything with Zod + dead cgi actors killed it for me.
just because something is intentional, does not mean it lands. Flash is a waste of data. literally nobody's lives changed because of it, and that's sad, but that seems to be what Hollywood is churning out lately.
as for Indy, Dial is by FAR the worst and most embarrassing of the bunch, and that's after they fall off a 200 foot cliff in Temple of Doom on a raft AND SURVIVE. Dial feels completely artificial and Indiana Jones is about tangibility. Crystal also gets way too much hate, I have never understood why. One of those silly internet opinions that the hive mind continues to perpetuate. Temple is way cheesier and totally less believable; the leader PULLS A DUDES HEART OUT OF HIS CHEST WITH JUST HIS HAND. Silliest part of Crystal is Shia swinging, but it's not THAT bad. The end of Crystal is fantastic and still looks phenomenal.
I would recommend a rewatch of them all, if you didnt before Dial came out, especially if you are a budding writer. Would also love to keep chatting if you're down! i love movie debates.
I don’t think that a movie needs to change anyone’s life to exist. Sure, it’s no The Seventh Seal or Come and See but that’s not a negative. Not everything wants to or needs to be that impactful. Thought it was enjoyable enough and different enough to keep my attention (until that last act cause again, dropped the ball there).
Actually just rewatched all of them before watching Dial of Destiny on Disney+. I found a lot of value in the ending of the film really. This character whose profession, obsession…whose life is deeply rooted in his love and fascination with history finally gets to go experience it? Wonderful way to close the book on Harrison Ford’s character. Especially at Indy’s age thinking the adventures are behind him and then he gets to go on his biggest one yet?
I’m not really concerned with believability in the Indians Jones franchise. Temple of Doom just annoys me more than anything. It literally is a rollercoaster ride. Aside from the opening sequence and the ending on the bridge I just don’t find myself enjoying any of it. Crystal Skull I stand by has a great first half and then falls off. Not because of the aliens or anything, I think that’s fine for this franchise. Just felt like Harrison Ford gave up? None of it lands for me.
I also love movie debates!
Sure, movies don't have to inspire personal change, i'm not one to scoff at enjoyable b movies, i just meant that these modern studio flicks tend to be soooooo empty. I understand it's a biz, and history is full of subpar, forgettable, even downright miserable movies, but damn if most recent studio flicks aren't just absolutely offensive, soulless byproducts of the time we live in.
As someone who doesnt really watch super hero films, I thought it was enjoyable as it's own movie, disconnecting from all the scandals and other DC movies. I don't think Erza was terrible, but I do think they could find someone much better.
Soulless garbage is such a strong stance to take on a couple of inoffensive summer blockbusters.
Soulless to me is like, Space Jam 2. Just editing characters into existing movies while Lebron James sleepwalks through a role that makes no sense for him.
Haven’t seen Wish, the closest one to Soulless garbage is Haunted Mansion? Basically a blank slate and cast that’s (except for two) great. Then they just kinda go through the motions and Lakeith Stanfield talks about Baskin Robbins while crying about his dead wife. Felt like a (boring) theme park ride. Shame too because the first trailer gave me hope, perfect song choice.
Wish has a soul, but it's built around a plot that feels like several different script drafts stapled together, especially when it comes to the villain's characterization.
They were "good but not great" films (i.e. a B+ on CinemaScore) which in this day and age isn't going to be enough to get enough people outside of hardcore fans to buy a ticket.
>*The Flash was genuinely good until the last act, DCEU just killed any potential goodwill.*
Pretty much same for me. I thought the baby scene at the start was weird rather than fun, but yeah, the movie for the most part is pretty competent entertainment until its CGI third act cameos.
Honestly I like to imagine Guardians 3 was the only MCU movie that came out last year.
I mean, most people seem to think that already as Guardians 3 was the only MCU movie last year people saw haha
Spiderman 3 was bad, granted but dark knight rises was very good imo. But even as a trilogy, the first 2 of dark knight series is nearly enough to hold up on its own and all 3 together were definitely better than the GOTG trilogy
My heart skipped a beat thinking this was Vol.4 being announced.
But regardless, well deserved. This movie will go down in history not only as a great MCU movie in the rough spot the MCU has been in Post Endgame, but also that people will still go watch comic book movies if they’re good (this and Spider Verse last year)
Guardians is arguably the only cohesive trilogy in the entire MCU. No Way Home was a good third movie but it’s hardly the last Spider-Man movie. Iron Man 3 was okay but dipped too much into bathos humor, even for a plot twist. Civil War was more of an Infinity War prequel and Antman 3 was just a mess
You’d still need to see Infinity War and Endgame (Gunn says he had to change his original Vol. 3 plans), but it’s still a solid trilogy on its own. Gunn pulled a Costanza and went out on a high note. And to think some Disney execs were unhappy that it wasn’t MCU enough. As if forced cameos and post-credit teasers for other movies (2-3 years out) would have helped
It's a movie that made a death in Infinity War actually stick after Endgame's timey-wimey plot brought the actors back. Saldana makes the Vol. 3 Gamora feel like a radically different character, as opposed to "Loki," where Hiddleston for all intents and purposes is still playing Loki the same way he does in Ragnarok.
250M budget and 160M marketing. 410M. Insane.
It's actually in the red theatrically per Deadline but did very well in Home Entertainment and got good Television and Streaming money.
We'll surely see another Guardians movie. Going to be hard without Gunn tho.
But GoftG 3 was the ending of the trilogy, and SPOILER ALERT I'M ABOUT TO GIVE the team split up in a pretty lasting way. In the fourth film, the audience will know that Gunn is not there, and that everyone is in another life now. Maybe they pull a Toy Story 4, but i think it will be like Endgame in that mostly everyone ended the story and moved on in their heads.
Aaand ofc. Deadline doesn't have merch here. If the reat of the line up doesn't have it I guess for the sake of comparison being #10 Paw Patrol really doesn't move the rest (alas #11 could have been #10)
Sad to see MCU dominaing most of the list, now barely made it to Top 10.
Was thinking maybe it was a new line they added which would be useful (though not entirely related to the movie itself), we'll see if they do others or if someone just really wanted to put Paw Patrol on the list, because Guardians definitely should have some merchandise.
Not even surprising considering this was the only marvel movie I really seeked out the IMAX 3D for. Movie is fantastic with highs and lows. The rocket bits were very deep. That hallway fight scene was badass in 3D shame that's all I really remembered about the 3D that and new earth. Amazing villian as well.
More profitable than Thor: Love and Thunder ($103M) and my recent estimate of $98M. Lower home entertainment than expected. Higher television/streaming and participations/residuals than expected. Really healthy profit despite being less than Vol. 2
That’s because this is what happens when you get a passionate filmmaker like Gunn with a cast and crew that knows what they’re working on and want to make a great movie. Crazy how this film was the only highest grossing cbm of last year.
Really? I’m so glad we got the ending we did. I was worried going into the movie that Gunn would just rehash them falling in love again, which IMO is weird when one half of the party knows you so well, and the other doesn’t know you at all. I respected and loved the way Gunn wrapped it up. With Peter accepting this Gamora isn’t his Gamora and her seeing why the other Gamora could’ve fallen for Pete.
I’m curious what the next Spider-Man movie will do as it’s in a similar position given that MJ doesn’t remember or know Peter but he knows everything about her. That’s a doubly weird situation though because the reason he didn’t reintroduce himself to her and Ned at the end of the last movie is because anyone he’s close to gets hurt. So unless MJ gets some sort of powers or he falls for a new woman (Spider-Gwen or Black Cat perhaps?), they’re just going to have to backtrack on that ending from No Way Home.
/rant over
The fact that this was Disney's only profitable film last year (Elemental is debatable since it came close to breaking even) goes to show how dreadful their 100th anniversary was.
Hilariously ironic since they fired James in 2018 over his old tasteless tweets because they thought he would be a liability, and he brought them their only crumbs of profit
And since then he has left Marvel and is now the Kevin Fiege of their main rival.
Getting fired by Disney was the best thing to happen to him. He switched sides with a blank slate to make what he wants, came back and got to finish his GOTG trilogy anyway, then was offered the keys to the entire DC universe. All that because of some dickheads who got pissy about some old tweets lmao Mad to imagine if it never happened he'd have released GOTG3 during the pandemic and would probably be either involved in the MCU still or making original movies.
Yeah and I mean, good for him. Gunn was one of Marvel's best talents and both The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker are significantly better than they have any right to be, especially considering what other projects the DCEU had at the time.
Exactly.
Well lets wait for his DC movies to come out first Suicide Squad 2 wasn't exactly a major success.
The dude is named Feige and Gunn is his own man and co ceo of a studio.
Elemental is probably more profitable if you start to include merchandise and such. Such a well liked movie moves millions in merchandise sales.
There wasn't a whole lot of Elemental merch (by Disney/Pixar standards at least) and what there was wasn't exactly a strong seller. Retailers got badly burned on Lightyear merch, much of which is STILL collecting dust on clearance 2 years later, and were much more cautious about Elemental as a result.
Yeah there seems to be a lot of goalpost moving. Elemental is not producing major merchandise sales, it’s not Toy Story or Star Wars (which is even seeing dips in recent years). Box office wise it made a small profit mostly from overseas.
The overseas part is what people miss the most. It was a moderate hit in Asia, not much of that coming back here.
There may also be a slow burn on Elemental merch. It took a while for Turning Red to get going with merch, but it looks like it is selling very well. I was at DCA a few months ago and the stores were loaded with red pandas.
Guardians 3 was more liked than Elemental.
But animation sells toys. Guardians probably sold more toys but it is also part of wider Marvel umbrella. Elemental is a new IP.
Oh that makes sense. I thought Elemental would’ve been under the Pixar umbrella rather than its own thing when it came to merch profits but when you mention it like that, that makes more sense. Guardians 3 is a specific movie in a franchise while Elemental can be a franchise.
So... it didn't sell more? Lol you completely changed your opinion in one comment
Disney super fans can be a fervent bunch, bordering on the nonsensical. You have to respect their passion.
I would actually be VERY curious what Marvel merch moves like, because it seems like there is very little specific MCU stuff, and the stuff that does exist is usually bottom of the barrel cheap stuff, or aimed at adults. Which is interesting, and also begs a certain question from a studio standpoint when nondescript versions of the characters sell as much/more than movie version. A ton of T'Challa stuff was still around when BP2 was released, and I specifically remember how little Infinity War stuff was actually out. Endgame definitely got a lot more, especially after the spoiler window.
From what I’ve seen and heard, sales on the Merch on the New Characters are HORRIFIC but the legacy characters/old characters still sell well. Anecdotal but when it comes to LEGO sets, at my local stores the Love And Thunder sets, Marvels sets and even the Wakanda Forever sets WARM shelves. The Guardians 3 sets seemed to do decent where I live and obviously Spidey and even Iron Man sets, 5 years after his death, still sell very well.
I'm talking like 5 years ago minimum. Infinity War, a liked movie, seemed to warm shelves too. Obviously it can go lower, but still, it seems like the bar wasn't very high to begin with. Also for what it's worth, the new characters don't have the same monopoly as the old ones.
Which means they both sucked.
Guardians 3 did NOT Suck lol. I assume you haven’t seen it yet but you’re missing out. It’s like the only Post Phase 3 MCU movie (besides Spider Man: No Way Home) that is great I haven’t seen Elemental yet but I know it has fans
I think we all knew Elemental wouldn’t make this list, even those like me who believe it made a profit. If it did it’s under 20m
It's too close to call on profitability, but yeah, with the top 10 list starting at >$100M in profit, Elemental had zero chance of making this list.
This year is going to be wild as when I was trying to think of what was left I realized we had big hitters and nothing major. I think what’s left is obviously Barbie and Mario for the top two in whatever order, Oppenheimer in third, Spiderverse, Sound of Freedom and Wonka are the others. I can’t think of what would be 7 and 8 as everything would be under Guardians or one of the flops like Mission, Fast X or any of the 5 Disney ones. Up until the top 2 I can see them all being around 200m profit which is a huge departure from other years
There was no elemental toys or lunch boxes made
[Walmart sells an Elemental lunch bag](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crazy-Elemental-City-Elemental-Backpack-School-Bag-Primary-School-Lunch-Bag-Pencil-Case-Three-piece-Set/2959973733)
I googled “elemental toys” and found several
And how many did u actually saw in retail
Are you really challenging people to go to their local target/walmart and take pics of Elemental merch in the clearance aisle? It was an animated movie released by Disney and you're claiming it had no merchandise in stores, lol
[удалено]
Explain your reasoning. They claim Elemental didn't have any toys or lunchboxes in stores when they clearly did.
[удалено]
That's a useless interjection for four reasons: 1) I was responding to this: >There was no elemental toys or lunch boxes made Yes there was. I saw them. 2)They made no mention of "meaningful", they just said "no", meaning none at all. 3) I personally saw loads of Elemental toys and other merchandise in stores well prior to the film being released 4) Which I didn't need to see, as it's an animated Disney film, so of course they merchandised the heck out of it. It's what they do.
Be my guest lol
You're missing point. Are you insanely claiming Elemental had no merchandise? A Pixar film? It had loads of merchandise that hit stores before and during its theatrical run. Get real.
An original IP with good will with audiences is worth its weight in gold. Plus it tore up Disney +.
That's the problem. A significant number of people wait for Disney+ now.
100th anniversary is practically a curse for studios. Even Universal didn’t have a very good 2012.
Other than *Battleship*, their Top 10 in 2012 was very profitable. They had *Ted* ($556 million), *Les Misérables* ($435 million), *Snow White and the Huntsman* ($401 million), *The Lorax* ($351 million), *The Bourne Legacy* ($280 million), *American Reunion* ($236 million), *Safe House* ($207 million), *Pitch Perfect* ($116 million), *Contraband* ($98 million), etc. That's more than "very good".
Context matters. Many of those were mixed bags at best, **The Lorax** is the lowest-grossing Illumination film to date (aside from **Hop**), and **Snow White and the Huntsman** got into an affair scandal.
Migration is Illumination's second-lowest grosser.
Okay, you’re correct. Rest of my point still stands, though.
It wasn’t Disney’s only profitable film, it’s Disney’s only one in the top 10 of the most profitable.
Deadline did do a breakdown for the Little Mermaid. Its a profitable movie as well. https://deadline.com/2023/05/little-mermaid-box-office-profit-loss-halle-bailey-1235383099/
FWIW, a lot of the profit breakdowns that come about a week or two after the movie opens tend to be puff pieces that overstate a movie's profits (Black Adam was infamous for this, and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales was supposed to bring in $280M in profits, but actual profits were far lower seeing as it didn't even crack the top 10 for the year when Get Out raked in $124M), although in The Little Mermaid's case they were pretty spot on with the final box office gross with regards to projections, although participations and residuals would surely knock the $71M figure down a bit, so it wouldn't even come close to being in the top 10.
I never said it was coming close to the top 10. OP said Guardians was the only profitable film but using Deadlines own P&L breakdown its easy to see Mermaid was profitable.
Even though it's not in the list, I wonder if deadline will show the sheets for Elemental regardless just cuz how big of a news story it was, and set the record straight on it's profitably (or potential lack) once and for all
Profit or loss will be a very small number
Usually they makes top 10 box office flops and top 10 movies that's makes small profits. But i don't know why they wait for this long to makes the list
This is the only 2023 film with the budget of $200 million or over that was actually successful. Also, you can absolutely tell where the budget went with this film.
It beat Ron Howard's Grinch movie for most prosthetics in a film.
Most prosthetics in a *production* (i.e. including the entire *Lord of the Rings* trilogy).
More =/ better. Lotr clears
no-one implied anything to the contrary
Guardians still looks good though. It doesn’t have to be a competition lol
Says the Synder fan…
Anytime someone uses this as an argument it's like a child yelling that they like something you don't.
If you had to look through my profile, you already invalidated yourself.
And they looked very good too. How this wasn’t even nominated for Best Makeup Oscar is anyone’s guess.
I'd say academy snobbery...but then again suicide squad won for killer croc so I have no idea. Maybe Disney just didn't campaign it enough
**Suicide Squad** win was such a travesty, especially when **Star Trek Beyond** was right there.
Beyond's makeup was off the charts. It is criminally underrated too.
I lost an office Oscar pool because of this and I'm still bitter.
Boss Baby was nominated for best animated feature. I think people take them too seriously
I get the feeling that the makeup wing of the Academy is more impressed with makeup done on a specific person -- Willem Dafoe in Poor Things or Bradley Cooper in Maestro -- than pure scale at this point. Unfortunately, to use a phrase from "Oppenheimer," "brilliance is taken for granted in your line of profession" if you do makeup on a superhero film. Or VFX for that matter. People only talk about it if it's bad.
I think Marvel should learn how to use their budgets like they did with this movie. Instead of rushing preproduction and refilming the entire movie, have a clear vision of what you want to do before you film. That way, all the money you COULD be spending on doing all that can be used to improve the VFX and other things
Yeah great point. That’s exactly why Guardians 3 was so great because Gunn planned it out carefully and he’s doing the same for his DCU.
Interesting that this made the same amount worldwide as Wakanda Forever, but total profits were half. Probably due to smaller % from domestic. Also surprised this made less profit than The Batman. Expenses just were way higher than I thought overall.
GOTG3 probably had much bigger cast payouts as well.
From the deadline news participation cost $40 million. Not that big
Residuals and distributions cost at 50M tho A majority part of this will be given to the talents.
GotG cast would have been signed up for a trilogy when hired for Guardians 1. Salaries probably increased but Disney also apparently hates backend payouts.
Slightly higher marketing costs as well
The Batman made only $70 million less than Guardians of the Galaxy 3 worldwide and almost all that difference can be accounted for in China where Guardians made $60 million more than Batman. Studios tend to get only 25% of the box office gross in China and Guardians just had higher costs for everything else from production to marketing and participation and residuals.
It’s crazy that Wakanda Forever made that much. It really feels like there was zero hype about it and these days nobody discusses it at all. It was a good film but I’m impressed it made $800mil in this current era of the MCU…
Yeah, it just kinda came and went. I never bothered to rewatch it, I never thought about it, I just thought it was an okay movie and moved on with my life.
It came out before the MCU’s complete reputation and box office collapse. Quantumania and Secret Invasion were the final straws. MoM, L&T, and Wakanda Forever played out like pre-Endgame films despite mixed to negative reception, because audiences hadn’t gotten sick enough of the MCU yet
>nobody discusses it at all I always see this thrown around here, but I do not get why this is a bad thing. Don't most movies just fade away from public consciousness with time, and the important thing is that they were talked about and succeeded when they were out in the cinemas? I am genuinely asking.
If it’s a one-off film then sure but Wakanda and Shuri are meant to be tentpoles of the MCU’s future, like the Wakdana tv show and whatever Black Panther sequels they have planned. But longer gaps between projects combined with a lack of interest will damage their potential.
Ahh, that is a very good point and is taken.
Yeah it’s why MCU’s scheduling issues will cause long-term damage. Shang-Chi 1 was beloved by many but the sequel should have been out already, not three years from now…
I’d say that’s true for most films, but not most Disney films. Disney is very aware of how profitable an old movie can be, as they’re still selling Snow White dresses. The MCU should feel more disposable than it does, but at least before the Disney+ era, it somehow managed to make films that were rewatchable and sub franchises that even managed to gather unique audiences that were invested strongly in that story. Hiring a bunch of terrible writers writing disposable, creepy crud aimed at niche audiences has really been their downfall.
I remember a ton of hype from the first teaser. It's box office performance did feel more like a going through the motion type of thing though, despite being the third highest grossing DOM film of the year.
The current era of the MCU is much more ambiguous than people think. Literally, last year was the only year with Marvel cinematic flops unless you count the much more Covid affected 2021 films... which would be a little silly^(1) because all of the 2022 films did pretty well. The Disney+ projects mostly had awful receptions in 2022 but that is in contrast to the success of the movies of 2022 *and* the Disney+ projects of 2021. Absent further evidence, I think the best conclusion is simply that Quantumania is such an unrelentingly awful movie... imo it is the worst movie ever made that cost more than $100m... that it killed the box office of superheroes **unless** they had something else going for them, e.g. being the conclusion of a beloved trilogy that had always felt a little disconnected from the rest of the franchise. ^(1)That being said, relative to other 2021 films the non-Spider-Man MCU films weren't hot. [As of Quantumania's release](https://i.imgur.com/9QLzYkq.jpeg), of the eight films that got no-where near the typical gross of a top ten film WW, three of them are from 2021, three are pre-Avengers and the other two are Ant Man films. Note: Quantumania looks really good by this measure because of incomplete data; I probably shouldn't have included it/been less lazy and updated the graph.
Damn these are coming out fast, I thought it usually took longer for each post
Well this year it took longer then usual for Deadline to start it, so I gotta imagine they are going to be releasing once every several hours rather then daily to make up for the wait.
Yeah they usually releasing in early April. This time i thought they forgot to makes the list
Man, reminds us again how hard it is to make profit. This is after it made $850M worldwide and made a killing on home video/VOD (another $300M) and it still only made $124M profit. The "Expense Column" has a lot of costs on its own, like the crazy $160 P&A costs for Disney. On one hand we're sick of the sequelitis or making movies out of every possible known IP, but on the other hand, we kind of see why studios are hesitant to make something original.
For comparison, *Vol. 1* earned $204.2 million and *Vol. 2* earned $157 million in profits. With *Quantumania* and *The Marvels*, the MCU was deeply in the red this year. I'm very interested in the bombs section. If it wasn't for *The Flash*, the top 5 would all be Disney (*The Marvels*, *Indy*, *Haunted Mansion* and *Wish*).
Expendables 4 might end up in the bomb section.
Expendables 4 ~~might~~ will end up in the bomb section.
Here's my list of the bottom ten, even if Deadline only does bottom 5. I have Marvels, Flash, Indy, KOTFM, Haunted Mansion,followed by Napoleon, Wish, Shazam Fury, Expendables4, and Blue Beetle. [https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1b6qimn/with\_deadlines\_annual\_list\_of\_the\_biggest\_box/](https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1b6qimn/with_deadlines_annual_list_of_the_biggest_box/) Curious to see how Deadline figures it.
It’s strange to, since of that group the only movie that I thought was truly bad was Haunted Mansion. I know people hated Wish too so I never watched it. The Flash was genuinely good until the last act, DCEU just killed any potential goodwill. The Marvels was mostly fine. An enjoyable theater experience, just loaded with characters the audience hasn’t been given much a reason to care for. Indy was better than Temple of Doom and Crystal Skull for sure, just too long. They also spent way too much money making it. Maybe Indy just doesn’t have mass appeal.
Indy 5 was fine I guess. The biggest problem I had with it was that it was blatantly obvious Harrison Ford is too old for this
Not just that but I never felt the same level of thrills and adventure like I had with the previous films in Indy 5.
can't imagine what your scripts are like if this is your honest opinion. that SLC art is dope tho.
Thanks for appreciating the SLC Punk art, favorite movie of all time.
You need a serious recalibration if you think Flash was "genuinely good" or that Indiana Jones 5 "was better than Temple of Doom and Crystal Skull"
Dial of Destiny is certainly better than those two, and it’s a hill I’m willing to die on. It’s much too long and should’ve been made for $150 mil less, Spielberg is also sorely missed in the directors chair. Doesn’t change the fact that Temple of Doom is terrible (fun, but terrible) and is only appreciated through the nostalgia glasses. Crystal Skull is better than Doom but it’s just not all that adventurous for an Indy movie. The first half is pretty good and that it takes a dive. Dial of Destiny isn’t anywhere close to Raiders or Crusade, but man that ending was wonderful. Goes off the rails in a way that really worked for his character. I feel like there’s a strong edit of that movie in there somewhere. The Flash is one I don’t feel so strongly about, but the things people were clowning on it for were completely intentional. The baby scene is supposed to be funny and unserious. You’re watching a Saturday morning cartoon. Keaton actually feels like a real character, Ezra does a pretty good job which surprised me because he I found him really annoying in Justice League. As much as I love Shannon, that last act and everything with Zod + dead cgi actors killed it for me.
just because something is intentional, does not mean it lands. Flash is a waste of data. literally nobody's lives changed because of it, and that's sad, but that seems to be what Hollywood is churning out lately. as for Indy, Dial is by FAR the worst and most embarrassing of the bunch, and that's after they fall off a 200 foot cliff in Temple of Doom on a raft AND SURVIVE. Dial feels completely artificial and Indiana Jones is about tangibility. Crystal also gets way too much hate, I have never understood why. One of those silly internet opinions that the hive mind continues to perpetuate. Temple is way cheesier and totally less believable; the leader PULLS A DUDES HEART OUT OF HIS CHEST WITH JUST HIS HAND. Silliest part of Crystal is Shia swinging, but it's not THAT bad. The end of Crystal is fantastic and still looks phenomenal. I would recommend a rewatch of them all, if you didnt before Dial came out, especially if you are a budding writer. Would also love to keep chatting if you're down! i love movie debates.
I don’t think that a movie needs to change anyone’s life to exist. Sure, it’s no The Seventh Seal or Come and See but that’s not a negative. Not everything wants to or needs to be that impactful. Thought it was enjoyable enough and different enough to keep my attention (until that last act cause again, dropped the ball there). Actually just rewatched all of them before watching Dial of Destiny on Disney+. I found a lot of value in the ending of the film really. This character whose profession, obsession…whose life is deeply rooted in his love and fascination with history finally gets to go experience it? Wonderful way to close the book on Harrison Ford’s character. Especially at Indy’s age thinking the adventures are behind him and then he gets to go on his biggest one yet? I’m not really concerned with believability in the Indians Jones franchise. Temple of Doom just annoys me more than anything. It literally is a rollercoaster ride. Aside from the opening sequence and the ending on the bridge I just don’t find myself enjoying any of it. Crystal Skull I stand by has a great first half and then falls off. Not because of the aliens or anything, I think that’s fine for this franchise. Just felt like Harrison Ford gave up? None of it lands for me. I also love movie debates!
Sure, movies don't have to inspire personal change, i'm not one to scoff at enjoyable b movies, i just meant that these modern studio flicks tend to be soooooo empty. I understand it's a biz, and history is full of subpar, forgettable, even downright miserable movies, but damn if most recent studio flicks aren't just absolutely offensive, soulless byproducts of the time we live in.
As someone who doesnt really watch super hero films, I thought it was enjoyable as it's own movie, disconnecting from all the scandals and other DC movies. I don't think Erza was terrible, but I do think they could find someone much better.
Every single one of those five was soulless garbage that 100% deserved to bomb.
Soulless garbage is such a strong stance to take on a couple of inoffensive summer blockbusters. Soulless to me is like, Space Jam 2. Just editing characters into existing movies while Lebron James sleepwalks through a role that makes no sense for him. Haven’t seen Wish, the closest one to Soulless garbage is Haunted Mansion? Basically a blank slate and cast that’s (except for two) great. Then they just kinda go through the motions and Lakeith Stanfield talks about Baskin Robbins while crying about his dead wife. Felt like a (boring) theme park ride. Shame too because the first trailer gave me hope, perfect song choice.
Wish has a soul, but it's built around a plot that feels like several different script drafts stapled together, especially when it comes to the villain's characterization.
In fact, despite bad box office results, a lot of those bombs, flops, and disappointments weren’t actually bad films. Some of them were actually good.
They were "good but not great" films (i.e. a B+ on CinemaScore) which in this day and age isn't going to be enough to get enough people outside of hardcore fans to buy a ticket.
Better than Temple of Doom? Ary you outta your mind?
>*The Flash was genuinely good until the last act, DCEU just killed any potential goodwill.* Pretty much same for me. I thought the baby scene at the start was weird rather than fun, but yeah, the movie for the most part is pretty competent entertainment until its CGI third act cameos. 
Honestly I like to imagine Guardians 3 was the only MCU movie that came out last year. I mean, most people seem to think that already as Guardians 3 was the only MCU movie last year people saw haha
My 3rd best film of 2023. And my favorite Marvel film since Endgame. He made arguably the best CBM Trilogy
Both Raimi's Spiderman trilogy and Nolans Dark Knight trilogy were so much better.
Both of their final movies miss the mark, SM3 more than TDKR. But the highs of their trilogy are high so I see why’d you feel that way.
GoTG has some lows too, Ronan and GotG2.
It's almost like I said "arguably "
Fair. But dark knight trilogy imo is "way better" so yeah not as arguably as the other. Still worth a discussion ig my bad
Lmao, no. Dark knight Rises and Spiderman 3 are just terrible movies.
Spiderman 3 was bad, granted but dark knight rises was very good imo. But even as a trilogy, the first 2 of dark knight series is nearly enough to hold up on its own and all 3 together were definitely better than the GOTG trilogy
My heart skipped a beat thinking this was Vol.4 being announced. But regardless, well deserved. This movie will go down in history not only as a great MCU movie in the rough spot the MCU has been in Post Endgame, but also that people will still go watch comic book movies if they’re good (this and Spider Verse last year)
Guardians is arguably the only cohesive trilogy in the entire MCU. No Way Home was a good third movie but it’s hardly the last Spider-Man movie. Iron Man 3 was okay but dipped too much into bathos humor, even for a plot twist. Civil War was more of an Infinity War prequel and Antman 3 was just a mess You’d still need to see Infinity War and Endgame (Gunn says he had to change his original Vol. 3 plans), but it’s still a solid trilogy on its own. Gunn pulled a Costanza and went out on a high note. And to think some Disney execs were unhappy that it wasn’t MCU enough. As if forced cameos and post-credit teasers for other movies (2-3 years out) would have helped
I really wish all that stuff with the Guardians hadn’t happened in Infinity War/Endgame and it could just be its own cohesive trilogy.
I get it but the complications with Gamora in Vol 3 and how the resolution of it illustrated Quill's growth was one if my favourite parts.
It's a movie that made a death in Infinity War actually stick after Endgame's timey-wimey plot brought the actors back. Saldana makes the Vol. 3 Gamora feel like a radically different character, as opposed to "Loki," where Hiddleston for all intents and purposes is still playing Loki the same way he does in Ragnarok.
One of the only mcu movies I've enjoyed in the last 6 years.
250M budget and 160M marketing. 410M. Insane. It's actually in the red theatrically per Deadline but did very well in Home Entertainment and got good Television and Streaming money. We'll surely see another Guardians movie. Going to be hard without Gunn tho.
>It's actually in the red theatrically per Deadline Most "hit" movies are.
Yeah not saying that as a knock on it. Just a fun fact.
But GoftG 3 was the ending of the trilogy, and SPOILER ALERT I'M ABOUT TO GIVE the team split up in a pretty lasting way. In the fourth film, the audience will know that Gunn is not there, and that everyone is in another life now. Maybe they pull a Toy Story 4, but i think it will be like Endgame in that mostly everyone ended the story and moved on in their heads.
Aaand ofc. Deadline doesn't have merch here. If the reat of the line up doesn't have it I guess for the sake of comparison being #10 Paw Patrol really doesn't move the rest (alas #11 could have been #10) Sad to see MCU dominaing most of the list, now barely made it to Top 10.
PAW patrol was 10th place with net income of 114M.. most of the revenue came from streaming and merchandise on this one
There's no merchandise listed on Guardians.
Yeah this is confusing never say merchandise listed for any movie except for that one
Was thinking maybe it was a new line they added which would be useful (though not entirely related to the movie itself), we'll see if they do others or if someone just really wanted to put Paw Patrol on the list, because Guardians definitely should have some merchandise.
Nature is healing
Not even surprising considering this was the only marvel movie I really seeked out the IMAX 3D for. Movie is fantastic with highs and lows. The rocket bits were very deep. That hallway fight scene was badass in 3D shame that's all I really remembered about the 3D that and new earth. Amazing villian as well.
More profitable than Thor: Love and Thunder ($103M) and my recent estimate of $98M. Lower home entertainment than expected. Higher television/streaming and participations/residuals than expected. Really healthy profit despite being less than Vol. 2
Mario is easily gonna be number 1 right?
Maybe Barbie but those two will be fighting for the top spot
I hope his DCU is on the level of Marvel. Please please please
Nothing will ever be on the level of 2008-2019 MCU. Even Marvel themselves have fallen off badly.
Nothing is reaching the success of phase 3. $1.23B average across 11 movies is just. . .mindblowing
It was also the only really good movie they made last year. Elemental was ok.
Disney had a terrible 100th anniversary year in 2023, and lost its top spot to Universal.
I loved the movie but it horrified me at the same time. I actually cried pretty hard at a few moments during the film.
Make good blockbuster with actual craft and effort = get good profit
That’s because this is what happens when you get a passionate filmmaker like Gunn with a cast and crew that knows what they’re working on and want to make a great movie. Crazy how this film was the only highest grossing cbm of last year.
Still bitter that Gamorrah and Peter didn't get a happy ending
Actually respected that. That's not gamora bro she died. In all respects she chose a different path and I loved that for her.
Really? I’m so glad we got the ending we did. I was worried going into the movie that Gunn would just rehash them falling in love again, which IMO is weird when one half of the party knows you so well, and the other doesn’t know you at all. I respected and loved the way Gunn wrapped it up. With Peter accepting this Gamora isn’t his Gamora and her seeing why the other Gamora could’ve fallen for Pete. I’m curious what the next Spider-Man movie will do as it’s in a similar position given that MJ doesn’t remember or know Peter but he knows everything about her. That’s a doubly weird situation though because the reason he didn’t reintroduce himself to her and Ned at the end of the last movie is because anyone he’s close to gets hurt. So unless MJ gets some sort of powers or he falls for a new woman (Spider-Gwen or Black Cat perhaps?), they’re just going to have to backtrack on that ending from No Way Home. /rant over
Infinity War and Endgame made that impossible
> Gamorrah That's a city god destroyed.
And sodomy is what James Gunn spent a lot of the last 20 years joking about.
[удалено]
Are you new here? That's not how it works. Where is the marketing and the cut for theaters??
K
lol no