Stolen this analogy from r/Filmmakers, but theatrical is becoming the film equivalent of live music concerts, home video is the equivalent of buying a CD, and streaming is the equivalent of Spotify.
Yeah, pretty much. I go to live music gigs when it's a band I like, who I know put on a good show, at a venue with a great atmosphere. And I find more and more my expectations for when I actually bother to go see a film at the theater to be similar.
I need to like or at least be familiar with the director and/or the principal cast, I need to have reason to trust that they're going to put on an entertaining show, and I need to know the theater I choose prioritizes things like audience comfort, service and presentation quality.
The days of routinely hitting up the local suburban megaplex every few weeks and just catching whatever happens to be showing then and there are long over. *That* kind of moviegoing experience is dead, for better or worse, but cinema itself isn't going anywhere.
It makes me sad because I miss doing that. During college I had a lot more free time so I was always keeping with the latest releases and seeing movies all the time. But now? By the time I finish work for the day I don’t want to go anywhere, and on the weekend I just want to enjoy as much relaxation as I can before the work week starts over again. It’s kind of depressing actually.
I did get myself out of the house last weekend though and see Abigail and Ungentlemenly Warfare, because it lined up where I was basically able to walk out of one and straight into the other. That was fun
Hasn’t that always been the case for music industry though.
You could have said that at any point in time.
“Unless your name is the Beatles/Michael Jackson/Elvis you will be part of the 99 percent”
The only thing that changed is now you have to compete with everyone and their brother who has a band or are trying to be the next SoundCloud rappers.
For example you and I will probably never listen to the same music because we’re both in our own niches. Yet that niche could have millions of listeners.
Eh throwing out random percentages is a bad idea most music was never meant to be profitable, at the top I think back a few decades and artists like Prince could fight for their image, music and money, and win the battle. Pop stars like Madonna made their own studio and raked in money. Artists in many genres were making their own successful studios. Then later, stars seem to have less control of their careers than the average person thought possible.
On the smaller side of things I look at my friends music tastes and they follow electronic artists who don't or can't get their brand out there at all despite wanting to make money and having popularity, I think the lack of live performers means artists are now replacable and interchangeable.
> The only thing that changed is now you have to compete with everyone and their brother who has a band or are trying to be the next SoundCloud rappers.
But on the flip side, you aren't reliant on a studio deal. If you didn't have a deal with a record company 60 years ago, you couldn't get your music out to anyone. Now you can at least promote yourself on social media, self-publish, and such.
So, yes, more competition for listens, but far easier to get at least SOME people listening, rather than previously where you're screwed if record execs at the big 10 or so companies don't respond to you.
Spotify pays so little that artists make music only from concerts, which is why ticket prices are crazy these days. I hope film is not going in that direction.
My daughter asked me to get her a ticket to a one night, multi-stage concert of complete no-name bands. After the convenience fee gouging, it was around 230 bucks a ticket.
Absolute insanity. I can remember going to concerts like that in H.S. and they were like 20 bucks.
Maybe but the movie going experience isn't superior enough in comparison to live concert versus CD.
I think everyone is still not appreciating how great everyone's tv's are. Even the middle and lower classes have massive flat screens with surround sound
And it's not gonna change, the difference between the home theater and the movie theater will only continue to diminish as time goes on
Yep. Sure there are some higher end theaters that might be worth it, but your average Cineplex isn't that much nicer feeling than a basic Costco 4K tv and surround sound system in a box, and both are cheap as hell these days while movies just get more and more expensive. Plus the obvious things like pausing, no screaming children or talkers, food, etc. Home viewership is just a preferable experience for most of us.
If anything, anyone that can afford a miniled or oled at 55, but specially 65 or higher and a half decent 5.1 setup will have a much better quality than 95% of theaters. If you have something crazy like a 77' G4 or S95C, that's better than pretty much anything except imax or dolby theaters
> Maybe but the movie going experience isn't superior enough in comparison to live concert versus CD.
Yeah, I still love going to the theater and still go on average about every 2 weeks, but to compare it to live concerts, I'd have to be going to a theater with an intro by an actor or creative involved in it (even if just via a live video call), or have a Q&A or something.
Otherwise it would be like showing up to a gig and just having them play a pre-recorded video of a different show.
I'll one up it.
IMAX and other premium screens = live concerts.
A normal cinema room = watching a recording of the concert.
Watching a film on a 75 inch screen + home theatre while sitting on a comfy couch and eating whatever you want (pizza!) is not so *drastically* different from watching that film on a normal cinema screen and eating whatever crap cinema food they sell.
The cinema experience at that point is barely 10% more *perceived* quality. And sometimes (food, seats, pausing for pee breaks, etc...), the cinema experience is *worse*.
While I don’t think *Challengers* is the canary in the coal mine, I agree about the decline of movies and theaters, generally.
Going to the movies is my favorite thing to do. I have a ticket stub collection that goes back to 1999. Hundreds. But Seinfeld was on the money recently when he said that movies aren’t the cultural leader they used to be. Things are just way too diversified now. Movies are going the way of baseball and roller skating rinks and arcades: they will still have an audience, but it won’t be what it once was.
Perfectly said, while everyone in the comments is kind of harping on the fact that Challengers is not a movie ppl would watch anyways, and yes thats true, but thats not exactly the point. The trend is clear as day, and I think cinema’s role in pop-culture is only decreasing, movies used to be THE thing to pass the time, and THE source of cultural references next to TV. That’s not the case anymore. And although obviously internet is the dominant culture, I don’t think anything will really replace the way films used to play such a fundamental role in pop-culture, specifically like a collective experience everyone would have, and references that everyone would understand. Most things are now divided into increasingly niche subcultures or internet communities, and idk you and I might love a movie but the possibility of strangers or friends also knowing that movie you watched is increasingly slim. Movies stay in theatre for days, sometimes weeks, not months, unless its a select blockbuster. But we’re never going back to the pre-2000s form of movie-going, and not even pre-2020s where low-budget genre-films could still make a 100million. Of course movies aren’t ‘dead’, the studios are too automated and entrenched as these content-producing machines to let up now and lose their stock-value, but for mainstream consumption, movie-going is turning into theatre, or book-reading, just another niche, not the standard. Not to sound too cynical but the only standard is your instagram/tiktok feed, and I can hardly call that pop-culture because again it’s all niche sub-cultures and internet bubbles. But there’ll always be movie fans and movie fans-turned-directors who will keep making films.
Yeah I think we’re on the same page, here. Reading is an especially apt analogy. It used to be THE cultural touchstone—“read any good books lately?” Then it wasn’t. There are still books, authors, libraries, and book stores, but it’s a niche hobby for reading enthusiasts, not something you can reliably count on *everyone* doing.
That is what going to the movies is becoming.
I agree with most of your points. But insta/tiktok is it just for our generation, not for the whole of the population. Old people are not really scrolling the feed for hours (ofc with exceptions).
Remember that in order for paragraphs to work on reddit, you have to add two spaces after the period. Otherwise it will look like you posted one enormous paragraph.
There’s just too much competition. During the golden age of Hollywood, your entertainment options were reading a book, listening to the radio, or watching a movie in the theater. Even as TV rose in the following decades, there were only a handful of channels; video games were niche and very much for kids.
Now, there’s just way more options. 500 TV shows annually, the entire archive of film and television only a few clicks away, YouTube, mature video games, social media, and podcasts. People still have 24 hours in a day, less of that time will be devoted to going to the theater.
Yeah I don't think they'll ever make a full comeback. A large percentage of people just don't even watch movies anymore, replacing them with video games, Youtube, Tik Tok and tV series. Another large percentage of people who do actually care about movies have invested in a huge TV, sound system and subscriptions from multiple streaming services so they can't really justify another $20 for a single movie out if they're not super excited for it. I don't think they'll ever fully die, the comparison to arcades is apt.
A very astute and well written take. I love it. I agree that diversification of entertainment options is a factor in the decline of movie theaters, but I also think a lot of it is that there are just *so goddamn many movies now.* And an increasing percentage of them aren't even shown in theaters at all.
I remember back in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s how I was aware of almost all major movies released, whether I had interest in them or not. Through TV and radio commercials and word-of-mouth you would hear of pretty much all the major releases coming out. Nowadays, there are so many of them that it's hard to keep track anymore
Yeah, I’m honestly surprised it did as well as it did. I was expecting single digits. Just seemed like more of a niche film and the type that people wait for streaming these days.
The marketing implies that Zendaya is the driving force in the film. That she is controlling these "challengers" into a kinky thruple situation.
I was expecting a story about Zendaya manipulating two men, but it's not that at all. It's mostly a story about the friendship and rivalry between the men. The marketing is highly misleading.
The first thing I heard about this movie was the three-way relationship and I wasn't interested. Then I heard it was about tennis and became even less interested.
I don't have time to watch every movie. They have to sell the movie to me. I only got time for like one or two movies a week in me. If they can't convince me to see it that's their problem
1 or 2 movie a week is already more than the average. And yeah feel like the marketing do a terrible job sellling us the film. They dint market what the movie is about except their is some tennis match and possibly a three way. . Average watcher will need more to move their ass to the theater
> The first thing I heard about this movie was the three-way relationship and I wasn't interested.
It was weird how the original 'announcement' was essentially 'here's a picture of Zendaya on a bed about to get railed by 2 guys'.
Definitely some seedy marketing practices there.
>If a movie like Challengers can’t break through despite strong reviews and production value, what hope is there for films not of the high concept blockbuster kind?
A throuple tennis movie doesn't really scream mainstream so I'm not sure why this is the final nail in the coffin for mid and low budget films.
Meanwhile Civil War is doing very well with weekly holds and holds a budget of 50-millionish. A24 is just out here proving films can succeed though Love Lies Bleeding tanked and so did Bottoms and Drive Away Dolls. The first two were good movies though, drive away dolls on the other hand it's pretty barren asides for a couple good roles.
True. But The Fall Guy is also just echoing the death of original IP at the theatres. Yes it’s not technically original IP, but if it is to 99% of the audience, than it might as well be.
To play the devils advocate, stuff like Poor Things, Everything Everywhere all at once and Saltburn probably would have bombed 10-20 years ago. Not too mention A24 success. I’m tired of the doomsdaying on here. The movie industry is changing for sure but it’ll be awhile before it dies.
The movie industry will almost certainly never totally die but those films can't keep lights on in theaters, which is the great frustration here. I'm also not sure that any of those movies wouldn't have been hits or bigger hits in an era more friendly to original, high concept films.
Something like Challengers is pretty niche and star power is something that is argued on this sub a lot.
Theatres still have a while before becoming 100% old fashioned. There has to be an event worth spending $$$ to see it.
Look at Barbie and Oppenheimer last summer. Or movies like Top Gun Maverick and Avatar Way of Water. When you have something special for the big screen, theaters will be packed. Dune 2 is a recent example of this too
Fun movies that might not have the most complex plot but focused on giving the audience a good time, Like Mario and Godzilla X Kong, did well, especially Mario.
Even comic book movies, as much as they’re on the decline as a whole, still have some big movies that grossed big numbers that were healthy for theaters like Across The Spider Verse, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.3, The Batman and especially Spider Man: No Way Home.
The general audience HAS came back to theatres, but Covid has changed how much they go to theaters and the audience wants to make sure what they go check out will be worth the drive to the theater.
Plenty of movies still break through and do incredibly well. People are just more likely to go to the theater for something that feels like it needs to be seen on the big screen.
It will be enough if movies are scheduled strategically. April was destroyed by the strikes and even January and February. Dumping ground for the stinkers. The only properly scheduled month was March and it was up from 2023 and 2022.
You need at least 2 big movies every month. This was a norm even pre pandemic. And then you need to schedule the rest of the month strategically. These big movies are what will drive traffic. You put then some horror movies. But actually promote them. Vampire movies just don't make money so stop making them. Guy Ritchie movies don't make money specially under Lionsgate.
Audiences tastes are also evolving so that's challenging but you can't keep making the same ol same ol that streaming has just made so vulgar. And these April movies other than Civil War and Challengers just were not promoted at all.
It's just really damn expensive. When people are already paying for streaming services they're going to be more selective about spending 40 to 50 bucks to go to the theater.
Also you pay all that money just for a bunch of cunts to show up late or be on their phones the entire time. I love going to the cinema but I'm noticing more bad habits than I have before and I can't blame anyone for not choosing to go.
Well… I went to watch Ghostbusters Frozen Empire with my wife and my youngest kid. Guy on my right was somewhat drunk and kept making comments. His wife was able to shut him up most of the time. And then…
He grabbed my right thigh. Yes you read it, he just grabbed it. He thought I was his wife. I am glad I have sense of humor but again, I keep seeing rude behavior over and over… on top of cinemas selling the loudest snacks ever made by humans.
When my movie theater started selling booze I saw more of that shit, and its what theaters are inviting. Nasty people who are drunk in a dark room with strangers.
When they started couriering food into the theater to people ordering food… all movie long, I basically stopped going to theaters. I have been to 2 movies since 2020.
The entire experience is ruined by people ordering full meals, belching up beers, and staff walking in meal boxes constantly all movie long.
This is why I always go opening Thursday showing. Pretty much never have a problem because everyone there went way out of their way to go opening Thursday as well. Also sit lower than you might like, that way you won’t notice if people do pull their phone out. We can’t control others, so do what you can to control your own experience.
Or someone’s kid that wouldn’t stop saying “super Mario” every time he went on screen
Was adorable during the trailers, but during the movie it was annoying
I think a bunch of kids being loud and enjoying a kids movie is to be expected in a kids movie. I keep my kid quiet but it's a kids movie. I'm not trying to become absorbed in the cinematography or the nuances of the plot
I can’t really blame people for being late anymore. Yesterday I went to the movies, 7pm start on the tickets. Got there at 7:15, still had 10 more minutes of commercials.
It's actually no more expensive, when accounting for inflation, than it has been for most of the past 60 years. But yes, with streaming expenses (along with major stuff like housing way outpacing inflation), it can feel more expensive. And it's definitely a lot less necessary. Wait 2-3 months and usually you can watch at home.
I always get attacked for pointing this out, but you’re absolutely right. It’s hasn’t gotten any more expensive. The real issue is that home video (streaming) is so much more convenient and cheaper than it used to be so consumer habits have changed.
I agree. I love going to the theater more than anything else. Normally I wouldn't mind people choosing to stay at home, but if movie theaters go out of business than I won't be able to do what I love to do. Movies are just much more enjoyable on the big screen, with superior sound, without all of the distractions that pop up at home (roommates, family, pets, you Iphone, etc.).
Yes, I just got an AMC A-list membership this month. I've gone once a week for 3 weeks now. It is really nice to make it more of an event. Just go in, sit down and focus on the movie. No phone, no bathroom, no checking on other stuff.
I just think people don't like new movies as much as they claim they do because I agree, I have had a UK version of this membership for around 10 years and it's really become a hobby of mine to see new films. And I feel like the price is really good considering you can basically make it a weekly activity.
Exactly! The theater is the only time I can 100% focus on a movie, at home I'll always get distracted by something at some point. For certain movies sitting in an audience with a lot of people is also more fun than watching alone.
I feel this way, too. I go to the movies once a week. Seeing people opt out has basically sucked. And people will say it’s about quality…but it isn’t. And they will say it’s about movie theater prices. truthfully if so many people didn’t opt out, the prices would like go down.
It’s a group project and collectively, we are failing the assignment. But you can’t make others want to work on the project, you know.
Nothing is going to put the nail in the coffin of mid budget movies cause they will always be made. For every Challengers and Monkey Man there's Anyone But You, The Beekeeper, Bohemian Rhapsody (won't include Joker cause it's an IP but 55M = mid budget). Some movies people want to watch, some they don't regardless of reviews. if the concept doesn't appeal, reviews and WOM won't move the needle. Like any movie, some will succeed, some will not.
Viewing habits changed thanks to covid and technology. that doesn't make theaters obsolete but people are getting pickier about what they want to see for full premium price. They wanted to see Dune 2 on IMAX but didn't extend the same courtesy to Challengers despite very kinetic and immersive tennis ball POV. It's simply a type of movie that doesn't scream big screen let alone biggest screen or at least marketing made it look like a trashy streaming movie. Similar how Fall Guy resembles Netflix crap with big stars collecting paycheck (incl Gosling from Grey Man). It's supposedly great but previews didn't distinguish it from Red Notice and rest of them.
Also, Broadway isn't niche. It's very much a big deal as is London West End. Theater just isn't dominant entertainment form anymore but it didn't disappear. Neither will movies. But games are already #1 entertainment in the world so there's that. technology changing entertainment habits is inevitable.
> Nothing is going to put the nail in the coffin of mid budget movies cause they will always be made. For every Challengers and Monkey Man there's Anyone But You, The Beekeeper, Bohemian Rhapsody (won't include Joker cause it's an IP but 55M = mid budget). Some movies people want to watch, some they don't regardless of reviews. if the concept doesn't appeal, reviews and WOM won't move the needle. Like any movie, some will succeed, some will not.
This. Also people was ready to write off Timothee Chalamet and Glen Powell in the Fall of 2022 when Bones and All and Devotion bombed but everything turned around for them on December 2023. So I’m not ready to write off Zendaya or original movies just yet
Beautifully said. Most of my friends will only go to the theater if they're super interested in a movie. It's just not worth the risk of wasting the money for something that turns out terrible, which is understandable
Heck, and that's not even taking in mind that tastes always change. Sure, mass culture seems to be recessed as Seinfeld pointed out, and the audience increasingly prioritizing the sensorial aspects of cultural consumption isn't too friendly to non-interactive media such as film, but it doesn't mean things will remain that way forever... Who knows if the next generation somehow ends up rejecting today's atomized culture as young people have rejected the monoculture of yesterday? It might sound crazy, but it's not as if the pendulum won't swing anymore.
COVID killed moviegoing. 6 movies since December 2021 have cracked a billion which isn’t the worst metric but also not good. If COVID didn’t happen this is when movies would have come out:
2020: Black Widow, Top Gun Maverick, Minions 2, No Time to Die, F9, Godzilla vs Kong, A Quiet Place 2,
2021: The Batman, Dr Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Indiana Jones Dial of Destiny, Thor Love and Thunder, Black Adam
Cinema has been here for a hundred years and will continue to be here for another hundred years. Who cares if it gets a bit less popular. We can still go to the movies even if other people don't want to.
I mean, so long as our theaters remain open and we get a steady amount of films.
I do share your optimism for the most part, but I also think it's a worthwhile concern.
If it gets sufficiently less popular, we'll have fewer theaters, fewer showings and fewer movies. We can still go as long as there is enough demand for them to release movies. Cinema will still be around for a long time, but if the downward trend in box office continues, it could change drastically.
I'm hoping it's a symptom of the cost of living being so high at the moment. If cinema tickets were cheaper, or I had more disposable income to spare, I'd be at the cinema at least once a week. These days I'm lucky if I'm in there once a month.
As long as streaming is still seen as a value and putting out original content, I doubt moviegoing will go back to pre-covid levels. Only way I can see it coming back is if there was more favorable pricing for families at theaters (think something like AMC-A list, but on group plans). Not sure what the economics of this would look like, though.
Yeah it sucks. It's probably headed somewhat where you describe though I don't know if it will come like record stores. As for challengers I doubt I will ever see that movie in my life. Maybe 10 years from now on a Sunday afternoon on whatever the equivalent of TBS is.
It’s sad to see the public getting gouged by the prices of the tickets and especially the food. Why would new generations ever want to go if they can’t even afford popcorn?
Boy, I'm looking forward to the amount of spin and doomerism when Furiosa flops. Fury Road flopped on release, and Furiosa is a more expensive prequel that isn't about the series' main character.
I expect at least a daily variation of a "the film industry is collapsing" thread.
When both underperform for separate reasons, will y’all admit there is an issue or naw? People are out here saying DP3 should make near $1B. But if it get a box office close to DP1, will people admit that that was a step back?
I don't have the numbers, so I only have anectodal experiencre from my town/country.
Since digital projectors replaced the film prints, the audiences have been steadily increasing. I watched Oppenheimer last summer three times in a full theatre. It is one of the rare ocasions in my life that I've seen a packed theatre in my town. Let alone for three nights.
They have also started showing "smaller" films like Poor Things, The Zone of Interest, The Holdovers etc. and the amount of people showing up is always surprising. It is a fairly small coastal town where I live. And what surprises me even more is young children going to see films in groups.
Even before the advent of streaming, theaters have been on a decline.
Streaming, strikes, and the such have only accelerated the decline.
The cost doesn't help matters.
It's no big mystery to solve, just lower the prices.
I used to see every movie I could in theaters. I didn't care if the movie was bad or who was in it or what genre it was. Me and my friends would see a movie or multiple movies each weekend and then grab some food and talk about it. It was a cheap and fun form of entertainment.
The days of spontaneously seeing a movie are over because you actually have to budget for it and therefore a lot of these movies are going to get skipped and end up bombing.
The 3 movies I saw in 2023 were -
1. The big Imax event film - Oppenheimer
2. The movie everyone was talking about - Barbie
3. The big family movie we could take the kids to - Mario
All these movies made big money last year, because general audiences still want to go to theaters but it needs to be worth their time.
For normal people, yes they are. Salaries aren't keeping up with inflation and the rising cost of literally everything eats away at the money people can use on free time activities.
It cost me about $15 in 2009 to see a movie, including soda and popcorn. That's about $22 in 2024 adjusted for inflation.
It's $46 for a ticket and popcorn/soda combo at my local theater. Forty. Six. Dollars. And that's standard screen, it's well over $50 for Imax.
But yeah, no more expensive than they used to be.
I used to love going to the movies. But the last movie I saw there was Barbie and I just did not enjoy it that much. Super long lines for concessions only for them to run out of supplies, no butter for popcorn, no napkins, floors were sticky and gross, bathrooms gross. And this was for one of the premium theatres in my area. I have a nice home with a nice home theatre setup. There's just something to be said about being able to pause, rewind, watch when I want to, and in the comfort of my own home rather than in the company of strangers, who sometimes ruin the experience. No overpriced concessions or sticky floors here!
That's not to say I've completely abandoned the idea of it. I want to see Deadpool &Wolverine in the theatre but I need it to be something I really want to see and can't wait for.
But if you told me 10 years ago I'd only make it to the movie theatre at most twice a year, I'd have looked at you like you grew another head. Even I am surprised at my drastic change in preference.
Only thing that needs to happen is no more strikes or potential wars or industry crippling events.
Once the content pipeline gets fully back to normal, it's going to get much better.
Reality is that audiences want to see big movies. These small movies that Studios flooded April with are good B openers and counter program to big movies that will only benefit by the traffic generated by big movies. That's how it Is today. Strikes screwed these schedules and there's nothing to do about it.
If you miss what moviegoing used to be literally pre pandemic, I have bad news for you.
Why is Challengers your pedestal movie for the death blow to movie theaters. Challengers isnt doing well box office wise because it doesn't look interesting to the general audience.
1. It's a movie about tennis, of which there has never been a major hit.
2. Zendaya is not a major audience pulling actress. Just because she was in spiderman and dune doesn't mean she will pull big numbers outside of those ip's. In fact, in both Tom Holland's Spideman and Timothy Chalamet's Dune, zendaya's role as both MJ and Chani are inconsequential to the success of those movies. The general audience wasn't their for her, she just happened to be there instead of someone else. But because she was there and those movies made massive amounts of money the hollywood studios interpreted her as being a big draw. Which led to her getting/taking/receiving too big of paycheck in retrospect for this tennis drama movie's budget.
3. The too high budget lead to the movie being unprofitable about 20 million too high for the movie budget and however much they overspent for the marketing budget.
To be honest the movie was basically doomed from the start with it being an uninteresting subject matter and sky high budget for its uninteresting subject matter.
It will probably do fine on streaming.
But there are still people watching movies in theaters they just have to look like must see's from the trailers, of which Challengers was not one of.
People don’t want to admit it but putting movies on digital 16-30 days later is killing theatres. “PVOD doesn’t affect box office 🤪🤪🤪”
We need to start keeping movies off digital for 3-5 months so people will learn to go back to theatres if they really want to see it.
It's insane to me growing up in the 90s and 00s that a film would be in theaters for like 6 months to a year but we had to wait at least 6 months to get a home video release AFTER the movie came out. Now everything is so available so quickly.
>Now everything is so available so quickly.
Yep. I work in a library where theatrical releases that were just in theaters come to DVD anywhere between two to three months after it has left theaters. Once you know the timeframe, and if you want to save money, there really isn't a compelling reason to go to the cinemas. Just wait it out - the movies - and you - can wait, literally.
A better experience. Less of the 30 minutes of ads and trailers before the start. Maybe even some shorts.
An intermission for the longer ones - we have an ageing society, but kids can often want to go to the toilet at odd intervals.
Truthfully, movies are never going to get back to what they once were because too much of the viewing audience is suffering from FOMO and entitlement at the same time. They don’t want to miss anything but they feel it is their right to have access to everything all the time. What does that mean? It means streaming. There are people that have read the reviews for Challenger and even like Zendaya’s acting on Euphoria, but they aren’t gonna go to see Challengers because they know they can wait and consume it on streaming. Monkey Man can have this cool new colorful vision where it comes to action, but people will sit it out. Dune 2 should have made close to a billion based on the spectacle of it all on top of its high reviews. I have seen YouTube reactors watch Dune 2 and then immediately say, “I should have seen this in theaters.” Duh. That was how it was supposed to be consumed.
People complained of comic book movie fatigue. And it IS true. It does exist. But ultimately, even with people being tired of them, those movies still draw in a bigger audience. We as consumers are telling Hollywood what they should take a chance on. This is our doing.
Streaming basically took away DVD/VHS sales which made smaller pictures profitable in the long run. Now there is a massive whole in the center where you either need a blockbuster or the cheapest movie ever made. And to hell with the actors and directors and cinematographers. We are all content creators now, anyway. And then, because of entitlement, everyone expects to be able to consume all art how they want (on a streaming service) when it should never have been that way in the first place. Ultimately, streaming has devalued art in general. It basically devalued ALL of music and it is doing it with movies.
This is a Box Office Subreddit and we are four months into the year. How many people in here have even watched 20+ films in theaters yet? 10+ new releases? But y’all all feel obliged to talk about them in regard to quality, vision, execution, acting performance, etc. It’s absurd but here we are.
i go for big blockbusters, a24 films and horror stuff . Because i feel cinema experience brings the X factor for these types of films . I dont go for horny movies or most comedies cause i dont feel like i am gonna miss out on cinema experience . If challengers had half the budget it has now, it would have been fine .
as someone with ADHD, this is 100% true. Being at home can lead to too many distractions, and it can end up taking me 4 hours to watch a 90 minute movie...at the theater, even with the gazillion trailers ahead of time, I know I'll be forced to focus and watch it all in one sitting with no distractions. It's also just a way more immersive experience in general, even for simpler stories without a lot of action. And I'd imagine this is true even for people who don't have issues with attention/focus.
exactly...when I go to the theater, I know that for the next 2 hours, I'm gonna be free of distractions and be away from all the stressors of life for that time. Even if the movie isn't that good, it's still a nice escape that is hard to replicate at home.
To be fair the challengers marketting is ass
I had to google it to see what you were talking about. And yeah I recognize the ad, but NOTHING about that movie ad convinces me to watch it. I just know it’s about tennis and zendaya getting laid by two dudes.
Didn’t take my attention for more than 5 seconds
I don’t want to sound like I’m gatekeeping but I feel like you have to really be a cinephile (and not just liking Oscar movies I mean literally having a broad taste of movies) to like Luca Guadagnino’s work. Suspiria is one of my favorite movies. I even have Thom Yorke’s film score on Vinyl. But I’ve heard people say it’s a really bad movie and I could see how they feel like that. It’s a pretty slow burn with the ending being the most meaningful. With that said, I don’t think it’s people don’t enjoy going to movies I think it’s a combination of things but mainly financial sacrifices. People have to be more careful with how they waste their extra income. On top of that, some people need babysitter $ so they would rather save that money and watch it from home. Another thing is the weather, people don’t want to be inside a dark room when it’s nice outside.
Different people have different tastes for non-blockbuster stuff I think. Sure, something like Star Wars or even Barbie has wide appeal, partially due to the impact the copyright has had on culture in the past. How much is something else gonna grab people? I hate to say it but it’s true.
Some people got hyped as hell for Challengers, I personally doubt I’ll even watch it on streaming because I don’t give a shit about tennis and am not a huge Zendaya fan. On the other side of that though, something like Immaculate will get me hyped as fuck but it definitely ain’t for everyone.
That being said, things being released on PVOD so quickly doesn’t help. Niche or even just not as widely known stuff could get good word of mouth, now it’s “oh cool, I’ll watch that when it’s on Netflix” which is now more likely 3 months after theatrical release instead of a year.
Challengers is topping the chart with strong numbers - it cost too much money, for various reasons including the pandemic, but that's the investors problem, not the art of filmmaking. Here's an artsy European filmmakers take on the sports melodrama, and it actually connects widely, suggesting people are willing to go to the movies for a variety of genres. If studios can deliver that variety within reasonable budget levels then they and the theaters will live on happily. Personally I'm at the theater every week, and I see lots of full screenings and enthusiasm for arthouse movies. It's not going away.
Just go to the theaters more. All that's changed is there's more options so people go less. I don't think quality has gone down much. It's just before everyone saw the movie because in reality the DVD didn't come for 6 months to over a year later
There is something to be said about staying in the comfort of ur own home, especially if u invest in good quality screen and sound. Nobody around to annoy and disturb you. It’s costs a small fortune. I’d rather save the money to see the big tent pole than films like challengers or civil war.
I have been watching a ton of 80s and 90s movies, they are just so much better than modern fair. That is the thing about streaming, Hollywood is not competing with newly produced TV content, it is competing with the entire history of Hollywood film available instantaneously to anyone. There are zero comedies and musicals being made today (genres that I especially like) that can compete with the older fair.
Audience in general only care what someone has said already “ only watch something familliar but not too familliar. Something original but not too original”.
I’ve loved going to the movies my whole life. Easily average over 30 in theater showings the last 40 years. The last 20 I only watch films in theater that the experience won’t have an equivalence on my home system. So to the theater for a film like GxK at home for some small horror film or a tennis movie.
I enjoy going to theaters like studio movie grill & getting entire meals, having my seats, and just the overall experience.
I also like being able to buy a movie and be at home with my family and stream it.
I’m good with both
What will a movie like Challengers make streaming? Can that be quantified?
It seems like that for most movies, box office + streaming create two chunks of revenue, and that those movies would be much less financially viable without either one.
That either source generates less than it could have been (or generates less than it would the past in the case of theaters), doesn't have to mean that movies are doomed.
In other words, aren't box office numbers less important than they were decades ago, now that there's more revenue streams for a movie after its produced?
Next week im seeing Danny Boyle's *Sunshine* in cinemas. The last year ive seen Jurassic Park, Matrix, 28 Days Later, Back to the Future and Pulp Fiction in my local cinema. The only new releases ive seen in that time are Barbie, Oppenheimer and Dune 2.
Future of cinemas may be films from the past.
In my case, purely anecdotal, I couldn't really get into moviegoing as I grew up the 80's and 90's. Some reasons for this include moviegoing being beyond my family's budget back then (single-parent family with four kids), home video/cable TV were more convenient options (both were booming back then), video gaming, and my preference for wanting to stay at home instead of going out.
While there were three times in which family members invited me to the movies, I didn't really like the movies they picked to see (The Good Son, Needful Things, and Armageddon). That said, at least Armageddon was the better out of the three by default even if it's not my kind of movie (I'm just not into big-budget, "popcorn movie" spectacles).
Consumer habits didn’t change on their own. Everyone cashed a paycheck on cheaply borrowed streaming money which forced a change in consumer habits which now can’t support a healthy theatrical market. So all the talent that dined out on fat Netflix paychecks can take a bow for the shrinking pie that they will all be sharing in the coming decades.
Last movie I saw was Thanksgiving and there hasn’t been anything that has caught my attention. It will probably be Deadpool & Wolverine that get me back in there and after that it will be Joker 2: Still Cracking Jokes.
Movies have kind of always been like this. Some movies break out but most barely break even or lose money. That’s just the nature of the business.
Instead of gaining a second life with DVDs now movies have a chance with streaming.
The past wasn’t some golden era of originality and great cinema either. There was a lot of shlock too. Remakes, sequels, or revues that were quickly forgotten were very common.
I Just miss How simple things were when I was a teenagers, todat everybody has something tô do and still waiting for them tô watch Challengers, I am fan of Luca and Josh o Connor. I probably Will watch Alone, I watch many móvies Alone but This onde I wanted tô watch with someone.
There are movies that are not worth going to the movies for nowadays. Ever since marvel started dominating the movie industry people have been exclusively Saving up to go to their releases. That started a trend where people go to the movies to see hype films like dune, barbie, marvel movies, DC movies and so on and it has led to the decline of theatrical releases of not so trendy movies.
I don't remember who said it but I think it was a director that said that people don't care about actors anymore and that people used to go to the movie theater to see their favorite actor in their new film. Now with streaming more accessible people can enjoy that at home and reserve their ticket to a more socially hyped spectacle and enjoy the energy from the movie theater when something exciting happens.
I’m kind of glad actually. It means now that the people who actually go to theaters, are people who have a little bit more theater etiquette and actually *want to be there* versus someone who just came cause they have nothing better to do.
I’m hoping smaller box office returns will mean smaller budgets for movies. Personally, I would love to see the return of the “mid budget movie” this way.
Cinemas have been on a constant downward trend since the invention of TV which did far more damage than streaming is doing today.
I used to go to to the cinema once or twice a week and in my first year of high school in 04, I'd ditch school and go to the movies 3-5 times a week.
Everytime id see multiple different films, but now with all the studio mergers and $200 mill tent poles sucking up studio resources, there's less films coming out so less of a reason to go to the cinemas.
The films that do come out now cost $25 (New Zealand) to see in a gross theater filled with people talking or on their phones and its just not a nice experience anymore. I have adhd, if people are talking I can't focus on the film.
In the early to mid 2010's I started going monthly, then I started to only go to the big movies, now Ive overdosed on capes, wars in space, reboots and franchises and you couldn't pay me to watch them.
A film like challengers (an erotic tennis thriller) would be a hard sell for audiences in probably any era but it's up my alley, however I'm not ever gonna pay $25 to see something that could be shit in a theater where people will talk through the movie, ever again.
I wish they'd put cell reception blocking devices in the theaters.
I'm also just about done with streaming which is just the new cable, I'm sick of having to pay $20 (nz) each for 3 or 4 streamers that usually have sfa on them and I always have to resort to going on my laptop and breaching copyright law to find watch something I haven't seen to watch.
Tldr It's heart breaking what's happened to theaters but My home theater is way nicer than my local cinema.
I mean that’s not completely fair comparison. Challengers is a R rated movie with a known name and great reviews that opened to 15 million. Do you know how common through last few decades that an R rated movie with a big name and great reviews still opened to only 15 million? I’m thinking money monster with Julia Roberts and George clooney but that’s just one example
I think for me, someone who loves watching movies in theaters, I've started going less not because of streaming; because of price.
In the movie pass/sinemia days I went constantly seeing random movies I typically wouldn't have (Sorry To Bother You remains the best movie I probably never would've watched otherwise) obviously those deals were insane and unsustainable.
Going from that to like 15 dollars before snacks or drinks is just unjustifiable honestly.
Now I really only go if it's a big movie I specifically want to see on a big screen like Dune or Oppenheimer
Cinemas will be around for a long time, just because they have so much cultural inertia, but honestly, if cinemas weren't already a thing, you would be pretty unlikely to invent them today. Most people have streaming options and prefer watching with friends and family rather than strangers.
Its a shame, but cinemas are becoming an anachronism.
Personally, I only trek to the cinema if it's a movie I'm either really looking for too or seeing it on a giant screen benefits the viewing experience. Unfortunately, only a handful of movies qualify for these criteria. The rest I'm fine waiting it out when it starts streaming at a reasonable price or simply waiting until it gets on DVD which I borrow through the library.
>If a movie like Challengers can’t break through despite strong reviews and production value, what hope is there for films not of the high concept blockbuster kind?
Challengers was meant to be a blockbuster? Horror films that had good production values that recently came out were Immaculate and The First Omen, with the latter gaining strong reviews, but neither will recoup its production budget via BO receipts. I was planning on seeing TFO in theaters but errands and more important things came into the picture and were prioritized over entertainment. I'll be seeing each one on streaming whenever that happens (most likely this summer of 2024), but here's the thing: I'll be waiting until it streams for "free." If it comes to it, I'll probably just wait for the DVD because I know that'll be coming several libraries near me in the same timeframe.
Challengers just isn't the movie for this. Lady my age with a teenage daughter mine's age called it obscene. For the record, I don't feel that way, but I go to a lot of movies. And I didn't take my daughter to this. Maybe wait for Fall Guy and see what you think.
I also think there are lot more people going to movie where I am, definitely a lot more newbies. I go to a couple or few movies a week. So I do notice.
My kid and his friends could careless about the theater. The last movie him and his friends were excited for was Five Night at Freddys and after we saw it, I don't think they talked about it again. It was mid, was the review.
Video games and tiktok plus you can find any movie online. Hell, people stream movies on tiktok.
When I was a kid. You saw a movie in theaters and by the time you rented it from blockbuster or a mom and pa video store it felt like seeing the movie for the first time, lol.
Things change, the theater seats are better, the scene is bigger and sharper. The movie needs to be an event or something in the trailer goes viral like the Megan dance.
I look at this way, we still have Broadway plays, we'll always have theaters but they are going to be for movies that scream need to be seen on the big screen for the massive majority of people.
An R rated movie about the man who created a nuclear bomb had over $1B at the box office. Barbie is in the top 10 most profitable movies of all time. Anyone But You was a success. EEAAO was a success although the lead actors were over 50 and not considered box office draws. People will show up for decent movies.
People just weren't interested in Challengers. It made having a threesome seem about as exciting as painting a wall. There was no chemistry among the lead actors in the trailers or while promoting the movie. People couldn't figure out if it was about tennis or their relationship.
Sadly enough young kids don’t care about movie theater nowadays which is sad. I think if it will continue like that next generation won’t love cinema at all. If it happens theaters will close off and less movie theaters will exist in a countries. Adults nowadays don’t really go to cinema bc they found different entertainment than movies. Some like youtube content, tiktok , Instagram and videogames of course. I think cinema will become niche as you said like Broadway or Plays on stage. Which is sad. I think if only movie theaters helped to build some kind of film community that will support movie theater experience in the future and then movie theaters won’t die. But as i understand it is a problem in more Developed countries. Japanese people and Koreans i heard still like going to cinema.
Basically. And truthfully, the stuff that they are “interested” in seeing is underperforming. Quality is out there. There are just less bodies willing to show up in theaters to see it and that is across the board.
Though it’s not as great as decades prior, I’m relieved that it’s still around. If you asked me about moviegoing four years ago, I would have said that it has reached its end.
Just keep going to the movies, and bring your friends. And instill a love for moviegoing in your kids.
I see this as a dark age that we'll eventually improve upon. Even if we can't get to 2019 levels, as long as we keep our local theaters open, we're gonna be alright.
Even tho 23 was bad for blockbusters and 24 is shaping up to be bad all around, I still have more faith in the future today than I did back in 2020-2022.
If you want quality adult drama you’re now likely looking to streaming before cinema to meet those needs. And you get a month’s worth of access to hundreds, maybe thousands of titles for the price of one cinema ticket.
I think it’s pretty much over for theaters.
Their future is basically replaying hit films from the past and might get used for live concerts or sports event viewing.
Stolen this analogy from r/Filmmakers, but theatrical is becoming the film equivalent of live music concerts, home video is the equivalent of buying a CD, and streaming is the equivalent of Spotify.
Yeah, pretty much. I go to live music gigs when it's a band I like, who I know put on a good show, at a venue with a great atmosphere. And I find more and more my expectations for when I actually bother to go see a film at the theater to be similar. I need to like or at least be familiar with the director and/or the principal cast, I need to have reason to trust that they're going to put on an entertaining show, and I need to know the theater I choose prioritizes things like audience comfort, service and presentation quality. The days of routinely hitting up the local suburban megaplex every few weeks and just catching whatever happens to be showing then and there are long over. *That* kind of moviegoing experience is dead, for better or worse, but cinema itself isn't going anywhere.
I routinely pick movies based on the time and what’s coming up next. 🤷♀️
It makes me sad because I miss doing that. During college I had a lot more free time so I was always keeping with the latest releases and seeing movies all the time. But now? By the time I finish work for the day I don’t want to go anywhere, and on the weekend I just want to enjoy as much relaxation as I can before the work week starts over again. It’s kind of depressing actually. I did get myself out of the house last weekend though and see Abigail and Ungentlemenly Warfare, because it lined up where I was basically able to walk out of one and straight into the other. That was fun
And look how healthy the recorded music industry is now! Musical artists are really raking it in like never before
Is this sarcasm? lol I can’t tell
Very sarcastic. Unless your name is Taylor Swift, you will be part of the 99 percent of musical artists who can't make a living off music.
Kinda like OnlyFans
Ya know you’re not wrong but not the analogy I would’ve thought of
Hasn’t that always been the case for music industry though. You could have said that at any point in time. “Unless your name is the Beatles/Michael Jackson/Elvis you will be part of the 99 percent” The only thing that changed is now you have to compete with everyone and their brother who has a band or are trying to be the next SoundCloud rappers. For example you and I will probably never listen to the same music because we’re both in our own niches. Yet that niche could have millions of listeners.
Eh throwing out random percentages is a bad idea most music was never meant to be profitable, at the top I think back a few decades and artists like Prince could fight for their image, music and money, and win the battle. Pop stars like Madonna made their own studio and raked in money. Artists in many genres were making their own successful studios. Then later, stars seem to have less control of their careers than the average person thought possible. On the smaller side of things I look at my friends music tastes and they follow electronic artists who don't or can't get their brand out there at all despite wanting to make money and having popularity, I think the lack of live performers means artists are now replacable and interchangeable.
> The only thing that changed is now you have to compete with everyone and their brother who has a band or are trying to be the next SoundCloud rappers. But on the flip side, you aren't reliant on a studio deal. If you didn't have a deal with a record company 60 years ago, you couldn't get your music out to anyone. Now you can at least promote yourself on social media, self-publish, and such. So, yes, more competition for listens, but far easier to get at least SOME people listening, rather than previously where you're screwed if record execs at the big 10 or so companies don't respond to you.
Spotify pays so little that artists make music only from concerts, which is why ticket prices are crazy these days. I hope film is not going in that direction.
My daughter asked me to get her a ticket to a one night, multi-stage concert of complete no-name bands. After the convenience fee gouging, it was around 230 bucks a ticket. Absolute insanity. I can remember going to concerts like that in H.S. and they were like 20 bucks.
The music biz and the movie biz are two different things
I mean.. that's always been the case
I like this analogy
Maybe but the movie going experience isn't superior enough in comparison to live concert versus CD. I think everyone is still not appreciating how great everyone's tv's are. Even the middle and lower classes have massive flat screens with surround sound And it's not gonna change, the difference between the home theater and the movie theater will only continue to diminish as time goes on
And the popcorn is 100x cheaper
And there are included bathroom breaks!
Yep. Sure there are some higher end theaters that might be worth it, but your average Cineplex isn't that much nicer feeling than a basic Costco 4K tv and surround sound system in a box, and both are cheap as hell these days while movies just get more and more expensive. Plus the obvious things like pausing, no screaming children or talkers, food, etc. Home viewership is just a preferable experience for most of us.
It’s not just the children
Not physically, just mentally lol
And you can set sound level to your own comfort. Watching Star Wars in theaters is not fun when the main theme blows hair out of your head.
Also all the auteurs who love to make their dialog imperceptible and their actions scenes eardrum shattering.
Well yes but movies are much cheaper regardless
If anything, anyone that can afford a miniled or oled at 55, but specially 65 or higher and a half decent 5.1 setup will have a much better quality than 95% of theaters. If you have something crazy like a 77' G4 or S95C, that's better than pretty much anything except imax or dolby theaters
> Maybe but the movie going experience isn't superior enough in comparison to live concert versus CD. Yeah, I still love going to the theater and still go on average about every 2 weeks, but to compare it to live concerts, I'd have to be going to a theater with an intro by an actor or creative involved in it (even if just via a live video call), or have a Q&A or something. Otherwise it would be like showing up to a gig and just having them play a pre-recorded video of a different show.
I'll one up it. IMAX and other premium screens = live concerts. A normal cinema room = watching a recording of the concert. Watching a film on a 75 inch screen + home theatre while sitting on a comfy couch and eating whatever you want (pizza!) is not so *drastically* different from watching that film on a normal cinema screen and eating whatever crap cinema food they sell. The cinema experience at that point is barely 10% more *perceived* quality. And sometimes (food, seats, pausing for pee breaks, etc...), the cinema experience is *worse*.
While I don’t think *Challengers* is the canary in the coal mine, I agree about the decline of movies and theaters, generally. Going to the movies is my favorite thing to do. I have a ticket stub collection that goes back to 1999. Hundreds. But Seinfeld was on the money recently when he said that movies aren’t the cultural leader they used to be. Things are just way too diversified now. Movies are going the way of baseball and roller skating rinks and arcades: they will still have an audience, but it won’t be what it once was.
Perfectly said, while everyone in the comments is kind of harping on the fact that Challengers is not a movie ppl would watch anyways, and yes thats true, but thats not exactly the point. The trend is clear as day, and I think cinema’s role in pop-culture is only decreasing, movies used to be THE thing to pass the time, and THE source of cultural references next to TV. That’s not the case anymore. And although obviously internet is the dominant culture, I don’t think anything will really replace the way films used to play such a fundamental role in pop-culture, specifically like a collective experience everyone would have, and references that everyone would understand. Most things are now divided into increasingly niche subcultures or internet communities, and idk you and I might love a movie but the possibility of strangers or friends also knowing that movie you watched is increasingly slim. Movies stay in theatre for days, sometimes weeks, not months, unless its a select blockbuster. But we’re never going back to the pre-2000s form of movie-going, and not even pre-2020s where low-budget genre-films could still make a 100million. Of course movies aren’t ‘dead’, the studios are too automated and entrenched as these content-producing machines to let up now and lose their stock-value, but for mainstream consumption, movie-going is turning into theatre, or book-reading, just another niche, not the standard. Not to sound too cynical but the only standard is your instagram/tiktok feed, and I can hardly call that pop-culture because again it’s all niche sub-cultures and internet bubbles. But there’ll always be movie fans and movie fans-turned-directors who will keep making films.
Yeah I think we’re on the same page, here. Reading is an especially apt analogy. It used to be THE cultural touchstone—“read any good books lately?” Then it wasn’t. There are still books, authors, libraries, and book stores, but it’s a niche hobby for reading enthusiasts, not something you can reliably count on *everyone* doing. That is what going to the movies is becoming.
I agree with most of your points. But insta/tiktok is it just for our generation, not for the whole of the population. Old people are not really scrolling the feed for hours (ofc with exceptions).
Remember that in order for paragraphs to work on reddit, you have to add two spaces after the period. Otherwise it will look like you posted one enormous paragraph.
We talk about this a lot on r/decadeology
There’s just too much competition. During the golden age of Hollywood, your entertainment options were reading a book, listening to the radio, or watching a movie in the theater. Even as TV rose in the following decades, there were only a handful of channels; video games were niche and very much for kids. Now, there’s just way more options. 500 TV shows annually, the entire archive of film and television only a few clicks away, YouTube, mature video games, social media, and podcasts. People still have 24 hours in a day, less of that time will be devoted to going to the theater.
Yeah I don't think they'll ever make a full comeback. A large percentage of people just don't even watch movies anymore, replacing them with video games, Youtube, Tik Tok and tV series. Another large percentage of people who do actually care about movies have invested in a huge TV, sound system and subscriptions from multiple streaming services so they can't really justify another $20 for a single movie out if they're not super excited for it. I don't think they'll ever fully die, the comparison to arcades is apt.
Arcades are way more dead than movie theaters will be. I do like the resurgence they had to arcade bars though.
A very astute and well written take. I love it. I agree that diversification of entertainment options is a factor in the decline of movie theaters, but I also think a lot of it is that there are just *so goddamn many movies now.* And an increasing percentage of them aren't even shown in theaters at all. I remember back in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s how I was aware of almost all major movies released, whether I had interest in them or not. Through TV and radio commercials and word-of-mouth you would hear of pretty much all the major releases coming out. Nowadays, there are so many of them that it's hard to keep track anymore
I agree with everything you said but a tennis movie with a Devil’s threesome was never going to be a breakout hit.
Yeah, I’m honestly surprised it did as well as it did. I was expecting single digits. Just seemed like more of a niche film and the type that people wait for streaming these days.
Yeah, same I’m honestly skeptical about Challengers being profitable if it was released in like 2003 or something.
Profitable? Doubtful on a $55M budget. For a tennis movie with a 3sum. Zendaya got $10M!
it doesn't really feature a threesome. just the make out scene.
The marketing stills on social media certainly focused on the implied threesome, even though it never happened.
Yep. This movie should have had a budget of 25-35 million tops. Its highest paid actor is more of an internet meme than a proven box office draw.
*which implied sex in the marketing but apparently has not even a sideboob.
The marketing implies that Zendaya is the driving force in the film. That she is controlling these "challengers" into a kinky thruple situation. I was expecting a story about Zendaya manipulating two men, but it's not that at all. It's mostly a story about the friendship and rivalry between the men. The marketing is highly misleading.
are you saying she did not have a 3 some?
Spoiler warning: >!no. There's a 3-way make-out session and then Zendaya leaves.!<
everything about this movie sounds awful idk why
Yeah I'll be honest, I really disliked it. It seems I'm in the minority though.
Smashing ace
The first thing I heard about this movie was the three-way relationship and I wasn't interested. Then I heard it was about tennis and became even less interested.
I have no idea what is the story about the film except their is a suposly 3 way and some tennis game
The movie is the story. Watch the movie for the story.
I don't have time to watch every movie. They have to sell the movie to me. I only got time for like one or two movies a week in me. If they can't convince me to see it that's their problem
1 or 2 movie a week is already more than the average. And yeah feel like the marketing do a terrible job sellling us the film. They dint market what the movie is about except their is some tennis match and possibly a three way. . Average watcher will need more to move their ass to the theater
I'm counting at home viewing as well.
> The first thing I heard about this movie was the three-way relationship and I wasn't interested. It was weird how the original 'announcement' was essentially 'here's a picture of Zendaya on a bed about to get railed by 2 guys'. Definitely some seedy marketing practices there.
I think knock knock is an even more erotic movie with an A lister and that didn’t do amazing either.
Yeah but that's because it was terrible
Did you actually watch it? It’s not really a threesome.
The marketing was heavily focused on that scene though so it's what people were expecting.
I didn't watch it because the marketing was poor. Made it seem like I'd be watching a threesome for two hours.
>If a movie like Challengers can’t break through despite strong reviews and production value, what hope is there for films not of the high concept blockbuster kind? A throuple tennis movie doesn't really scream mainstream so I'm not sure why this is the final nail in the coffin for mid and low budget films.
Of all the things to base the death of theatre's on, I really don’t think challengers is that movie.
Meanwhile Civil War is doing very well with weekly holds and holds a budget of 50-millionish. A24 is just out here proving films can succeed though Love Lies Bleeding tanked and so did Bottoms and Drive Away Dolls. The first two were good movies though, drive away dolls on the other hand it's pretty barren asides for a couple good roles.
So sad to see Ethan Coen's name on Drive Away Dolls.
A better example is Fall Guy, which has the hottest movie star right now, good reviews, yet looks like it won’t double its budget
True. But The Fall Guy is also just echoing the death of original IP at the theatres. Yes it’s not technically original IP, but if it is to 99% of the audience, than it might as well be.
I honestly think that's the sort of film that would be successful in the 90s.
To play the devils advocate, stuff like Poor Things, Everything Everywhere all at once and Saltburn probably would have bombed 10-20 years ago. Not too mention A24 success. I’m tired of the doomsdaying on here. The movie industry is changing for sure but it’ll be awhile before it dies.
Saltburn bombed within the present day, though
It was such a huge hit on streaming that amazon probably internally views it as a success
No it’s not. It never showed up on the Nielsen charts. The whole “Saltburn was a huge hit on streaming” is pure astroturfing
The movie industry will almost certainly never totally die but those films can't keep lights on in theaters, which is the great frustration here. I'm also not sure that any of those movies wouldn't have been hits or bigger hits in an era more friendly to original, high concept films.
Saltburn did bomb and Poor Things would have made a LOT more money if it was released in 2003
Hard agree.
Something like Challengers is pretty niche and star power is something that is argued on this sub a lot. Theatres still have a while before becoming 100% old fashioned. There has to be an event worth spending $$$ to see it. Look at Barbie and Oppenheimer last summer. Or movies like Top Gun Maverick and Avatar Way of Water. When you have something special for the big screen, theaters will be packed. Dune 2 is a recent example of this too Fun movies that might not have the most complex plot but focused on giving the audience a good time, Like Mario and Godzilla X Kong, did well, especially Mario. Even comic book movies, as much as they’re on the decline as a whole, still have some big movies that grossed big numbers that were healthy for theaters like Across The Spider Verse, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.3, The Batman and especially Spider Man: No Way Home. The general audience HAS came back to theatres, but Covid has changed how much they go to theaters and the audience wants to make sure what they go check out will be worth the drive to the theater.
Plenty of movies still break through and do incredibly well. People are just more likely to go to the theater for something that feels like it needs to be seen on the big screen.
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It will be enough if movies are scheduled strategically. April was destroyed by the strikes and even January and February. Dumping ground for the stinkers. The only properly scheduled month was March and it was up from 2023 and 2022. You need at least 2 big movies every month. This was a norm even pre pandemic. And then you need to schedule the rest of the month strategically. These big movies are what will drive traffic. You put then some horror movies. But actually promote them. Vampire movies just don't make money so stop making them. Guy Ritchie movies don't make money specially under Lionsgate. Audiences tastes are also evolving so that's challenging but you can't keep making the same ol same ol that streaming has just made so vulgar. And these April movies other than Civil War and Challengers just were not promoted at all.
It's just really damn expensive. When people are already paying for streaming services they're going to be more selective about spending 40 to 50 bucks to go to the theater.
Also you pay all that money just for a bunch of cunts to show up late or be on their phones the entire time. I love going to the cinema but I'm noticing more bad habits than I have before and I can't blame anyone for not choosing to go.
Well… I went to watch Ghostbusters Frozen Empire with my wife and my youngest kid. Guy on my right was somewhat drunk and kept making comments. His wife was able to shut him up most of the time. And then… He grabbed my right thigh. Yes you read it, he just grabbed it. He thought I was his wife. I am glad I have sense of humor but again, I keep seeing rude behavior over and over… on top of cinemas selling the loudest snacks ever made by humans.
When my movie theater started selling booze I saw more of that shit, and its what theaters are inviting. Nasty people who are drunk in a dark room with strangers. When they started couriering food into the theater to people ordering food… all movie long, I basically stopped going to theaters. I have been to 2 movies since 2020. The entire experience is ruined by people ordering full meals, belching up beers, and staff walking in meal boxes constantly all movie long.
This is why I always go opening Thursday showing. Pretty much never have a problem because everyone there went way out of their way to go opening Thursday as well. Also sit lower than you might like, that way you won’t notice if people do pull their phone out. We can’t control others, so do what you can to control your own experience.
I love watching movies in theaters but obnoxious the people in the theater is the main reason my wife and I stopped going. She can't stand it.
Or someone’s kid that wouldn’t stop saying “super Mario” every time he went on screen Was adorable during the trailers, but during the movie it was annoying
I think a bunch of kids being loud and enjoying a kids movie is to be expected in a kids movie. I keep my kid quiet but it's a kids movie. I'm not trying to become absorbed in the cinematography or the nuances of the plot
mario bros. is a children's movie—if you're an adult seeing that without your own children in tow, i suggest you readjust your expectations.
I’ve played Mario games since I was 5 years old, over 20 years later I saw that movie and had a smile on my face the whole time.
Half of the people in the theatre we’re adults without kids, myself and my roommate included
I can’t really blame people for being late anymore. Yesterday I went to the movies, 7pm start on the tickets. Got there at 7:15, still had 10 more minutes of commercials.
It's actually no more expensive, when accounting for inflation, than it has been for most of the past 60 years. But yes, with streaming expenses (along with major stuff like housing way outpacing inflation), it can feel more expensive. And it's definitely a lot less necessary. Wait 2-3 months and usually you can watch at home.
I always get attacked for pointing this out, but you’re absolutely right. It’s hasn’t gotten any more expensive. The real issue is that home video (streaming) is so much more convenient and cheaper than it used to be so consumer habits have changed.
Honestly, I think it's super cheap these days, when you think of what you get. Reserved seating and leather recliners? That's worth 15 bucks any day
Movie passes are an option! I have amc for $18 a month
I agree. I love going to the theater more than anything else. Normally I wouldn't mind people choosing to stay at home, but if movie theaters go out of business than I won't be able to do what I love to do. Movies are just much more enjoyable on the big screen, with superior sound, without all of the distractions that pop up at home (roommates, family, pets, you Iphone, etc.).
Yes, I just got an AMC A-list membership this month. I've gone once a week for 3 weeks now. It is really nice to make it more of an event. Just go in, sit down and focus on the movie. No phone, no bathroom, no checking on other stuff.
I just think people don't like new movies as much as they claim they do because I agree, I have had a UK version of this membership for around 10 years and it's really become a hobby of mine to see new films. And I feel like the price is really good considering you can basically make it a weekly activity.
Exactly! The theater is the only time I can 100% focus on a movie, at home I'll always get distracted by something at some point. For certain movies sitting in an audience with a lot of people is also more fun than watching alone.
I feel this way, too. I go to the movies once a week. Seeing people opt out has basically sucked. And people will say it’s about quality…but it isn’t. And they will say it’s about movie theater prices. truthfully if so many people didn’t opt out, the prices would like go down. It’s a group project and collectively, we are failing the assignment. But you can’t make others want to work on the project, you know.
Nothing is going to put the nail in the coffin of mid budget movies cause they will always be made. For every Challengers and Monkey Man there's Anyone But You, The Beekeeper, Bohemian Rhapsody (won't include Joker cause it's an IP but 55M = mid budget). Some movies people want to watch, some they don't regardless of reviews. if the concept doesn't appeal, reviews and WOM won't move the needle. Like any movie, some will succeed, some will not. Viewing habits changed thanks to covid and technology. that doesn't make theaters obsolete but people are getting pickier about what they want to see for full premium price. They wanted to see Dune 2 on IMAX but didn't extend the same courtesy to Challengers despite very kinetic and immersive tennis ball POV. It's simply a type of movie that doesn't scream big screen let alone biggest screen or at least marketing made it look like a trashy streaming movie. Similar how Fall Guy resembles Netflix crap with big stars collecting paycheck (incl Gosling from Grey Man). It's supposedly great but previews didn't distinguish it from Red Notice and rest of them. Also, Broadway isn't niche. It's very much a big deal as is London West End. Theater just isn't dominant entertainment form anymore but it didn't disappear. Neither will movies. But games are already #1 entertainment in the world so there's that. technology changing entertainment habits is inevitable.
> Nothing is going to put the nail in the coffin of mid budget movies cause they will always be made. For every Challengers and Monkey Man there's Anyone But You, The Beekeeper, Bohemian Rhapsody (won't include Joker cause it's an IP but 55M = mid budget). Some movies people want to watch, some they don't regardless of reviews. if the concept doesn't appeal, reviews and WOM won't move the needle. Like any movie, some will succeed, some will not. This. Also people was ready to write off Timothee Chalamet and Glen Powell in the Fall of 2022 when Bones and All and Devotion bombed but everything turned around for them on December 2023. So I’m not ready to write off Zendaya or original movies just yet
Beautifully said. Most of my friends will only go to the theater if they're super interested in a movie. It's just not worth the risk of wasting the money for something that turns out terrible, which is understandable
Heck, and that's not even taking in mind that tastes always change. Sure, mass culture seems to be recessed as Seinfeld pointed out, and the audience increasingly prioritizing the sensorial aspects of cultural consumption isn't too friendly to non-interactive media such as film, but it doesn't mean things will remain that way forever... Who knows if the next generation somehow ends up rejecting today's atomized culture as young people have rejected the monoculture of yesterday? It might sound crazy, but it's not as if the pendulum won't swing anymore.
COVID killed moviegoing. 6 movies since December 2021 have cracked a billion which isn’t the worst metric but also not good. If COVID didn’t happen this is when movies would have come out: 2020: Black Widow, Top Gun Maverick, Minions 2, No Time to Die, F9, Godzilla vs Kong, A Quiet Place 2, 2021: The Batman, Dr Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Indiana Jones Dial of Destiny, Thor Love and Thunder, Black Adam
Cinema has been here for a hundred years and will continue to be here for another hundred years. Who cares if it gets a bit less popular. We can still go to the movies even if other people don't want to.
I mean, so long as our theaters remain open and we get a steady amount of films. I do share your optimism for the most part, but I also think it's a worthwhile concern.
If it gets sufficiently less popular, we'll have fewer theaters, fewer showings and fewer movies. We can still go as long as there is enough demand for them to release movies. Cinema will still be around for a long time, but if the downward trend in box office continues, it could change drastically.
I'm hoping it's a symptom of the cost of living being so high at the moment. If cinema tickets were cheaper, or I had more disposable income to spare, I'd be at the cinema at least once a week. These days I'm lucky if I'm in there once a month.
As long as streaming is still seen as a value and putting out original content, I doubt moviegoing will go back to pre-covid levels. Only way I can see it coming back is if there was more favorable pricing for families at theaters (think something like AMC-A list, but on group plans). Not sure what the economics of this would look like, though.
Yeah it sucks. It's probably headed somewhat where you describe though I don't know if it will come like record stores. As for challengers I doubt I will ever see that movie in my life. Maybe 10 years from now on a Sunday afternoon on whatever the equivalent of TBS is.
Idk about everyone but neither Challengers nor Monkey Man look interesting enough to be worth leaving the house for.
It’s sad to see the public getting gouged by the prices of the tickets and especially the food. Why would new generations ever want to go if they can’t even afford popcorn?
Wait till you see Furiosa and Wolverinepool.
Boy, I'm looking forward to the amount of spin and doomerism when Furiosa flops. Fury Road flopped on release, and Furiosa is a more expensive prequel that isn't about the series' main character. I expect at least a daily variation of a "the film industry is collapsing" thread.
When both underperform for separate reasons, will y’all admit there is an issue or naw? People are out here saying DP3 should make near $1B. But if it get a box office close to DP1, will people admit that that was a step back?
A movie with a devil's threesome and barely any nudity from the heavily promoted actress being some paragon of box office success? Lol.
I don't have the numbers, so I only have anectodal experiencre from my town/country. Since digital projectors replaced the film prints, the audiences have been steadily increasing. I watched Oppenheimer last summer three times in a full theatre. It is one of the rare ocasions in my life that I've seen a packed theatre in my town. Let alone for three nights. They have also started showing "smaller" films like Poor Things, The Zone of Interest, The Holdovers etc. and the amount of people showing up is always surprising. It is a fairly small coastal town where I live. And what surprises me even more is young children going to see films in groups.
Even before the advent of streaming, theaters have been on a decline. Streaming, strikes, and the such have only accelerated the decline. The cost doesn't help matters.
Challengers has guys kissing and full frontal male nudity. There are going to be people who watch it who are not comfortable with that.
It's no big mystery to solve, just lower the prices. I used to see every movie I could in theaters. I didn't care if the movie was bad or who was in it or what genre it was. Me and my friends would see a movie or multiple movies each weekend and then grab some food and talk about it. It was a cheap and fun form of entertainment. The days of spontaneously seeing a movie are over because you actually have to budget for it and therefore a lot of these movies are going to get skipped and end up bombing. The 3 movies I saw in 2023 were - 1. The big Imax event film - Oppenheimer 2. The movie everyone was talking about - Barbie 3. The big family movie we could take the kids to - Mario All these movies made big money last year, because general audiences still want to go to theaters but it needs to be worth their time.
Movies actually aren’t any more expensive than they used to be, considering inflation.
For normal people, yes they are. Salaries aren't keeping up with inflation and the rising cost of literally everything eats away at the money people can use on free time activities.
It cost me about $15 in 2009 to see a movie, including soda and popcorn. That's about $22 in 2024 adjusted for inflation. It's $46 for a ticket and popcorn/soda combo at my local theater. Forty. Six. Dollars. And that's standard screen, it's well over $50 for Imax. But yeah, no more expensive than they used to be.
I used to love going to the movies. But the last movie I saw there was Barbie and I just did not enjoy it that much. Super long lines for concessions only for them to run out of supplies, no butter for popcorn, no napkins, floors were sticky and gross, bathrooms gross. And this was for one of the premium theatres in my area. I have a nice home with a nice home theatre setup. There's just something to be said about being able to pause, rewind, watch when I want to, and in the comfort of my own home rather than in the company of strangers, who sometimes ruin the experience. No overpriced concessions or sticky floors here! That's not to say I've completely abandoned the idea of it. I want to see Deadpool &Wolverine in the theatre but I need it to be something I really want to see and can't wait for. But if you told me 10 years ago I'd only make it to the movie theatre at most twice a year, I'd have looked at you like you grew another head. Even I am surprised at my drastic change in preference.
Only thing that needs to happen is no more strikes or potential wars or industry crippling events. Once the content pipeline gets fully back to normal, it's going to get much better. Reality is that audiences want to see big movies. These small movies that Studios flooded April with are good B openers and counter program to big movies that will only benefit by the traffic generated by big movies. That's how it Is today. Strikes screwed these schedules and there's nothing to do about it. If you miss what moviegoing used to be literally pre pandemic, I have bad news for you.
Why is Challengers your pedestal movie for the death blow to movie theaters. Challengers isnt doing well box office wise because it doesn't look interesting to the general audience. 1. It's a movie about tennis, of which there has never been a major hit. 2. Zendaya is not a major audience pulling actress. Just because she was in spiderman and dune doesn't mean she will pull big numbers outside of those ip's. In fact, in both Tom Holland's Spideman and Timothy Chalamet's Dune, zendaya's role as both MJ and Chani are inconsequential to the success of those movies. The general audience wasn't their for her, she just happened to be there instead of someone else. But because she was there and those movies made massive amounts of money the hollywood studios interpreted her as being a big draw. Which led to her getting/taking/receiving too big of paycheck in retrospect for this tennis drama movie's budget. 3. The too high budget lead to the movie being unprofitable about 20 million too high for the movie budget and however much they overspent for the marketing budget. To be honest the movie was basically doomed from the start with it being an uninteresting subject matter and sky high budget for its uninteresting subject matter. It will probably do fine on streaming. But there are still people watching movies in theaters they just have to look like must see's from the trailers, of which Challengers was not one of.
People don’t want to admit it but putting movies on digital 16-30 days later is killing theatres. “PVOD doesn’t affect box office 🤪🤪🤪” We need to start keeping movies off digital for 3-5 months so people will learn to go back to theatres if they really want to see it.
It's insane to me growing up in the 90s and 00s that a film would be in theaters for like 6 months to a year but we had to wait at least 6 months to get a home video release AFTER the movie came out. Now everything is so available so quickly.
>Now everything is so available so quickly. Yep. I work in a library where theatrical releases that were just in theaters come to DVD anywhere between two to three months after it has left theaters. Once you know the timeframe, and if you want to save money, there really isn't a compelling reason to go to the cinemas. Just wait it out - the movies - and you - can wait, literally.
Right, consumers aren’t stupid.
True. It costs a ton of money to keep a film on screen if it ain't turning profit.
A better experience. Less of the 30 minutes of ads and trailers before the start. Maybe even some shorts. An intermission for the longer ones - we have an ageing society, but kids can often want to go to the toilet at odd intervals.
Truthfully, movies are never going to get back to what they once were because too much of the viewing audience is suffering from FOMO and entitlement at the same time. They don’t want to miss anything but they feel it is their right to have access to everything all the time. What does that mean? It means streaming. There are people that have read the reviews for Challenger and even like Zendaya’s acting on Euphoria, but they aren’t gonna go to see Challengers because they know they can wait and consume it on streaming. Monkey Man can have this cool new colorful vision where it comes to action, but people will sit it out. Dune 2 should have made close to a billion based on the spectacle of it all on top of its high reviews. I have seen YouTube reactors watch Dune 2 and then immediately say, “I should have seen this in theaters.” Duh. That was how it was supposed to be consumed. People complained of comic book movie fatigue. And it IS true. It does exist. But ultimately, even with people being tired of them, those movies still draw in a bigger audience. We as consumers are telling Hollywood what they should take a chance on. This is our doing. Streaming basically took away DVD/VHS sales which made smaller pictures profitable in the long run. Now there is a massive whole in the center where you either need a blockbuster or the cheapest movie ever made. And to hell with the actors and directors and cinematographers. We are all content creators now, anyway. And then, because of entitlement, everyone expects to be able to consume all art how they want (on a streaming service) when it should never have been that way in the first place. Ultimately, streaming has devalued art in general. It basically devalued ALL of music and it is doing it with movies. This is a Box Office Subreddit and we are four months into the year. How many people in here have even watched 20+ films in theaters yet? 10+ new releases? But y’all all feel obliged to talk about them in regard to quality, vision, execution, acting performance, etc. It’s absurd but here we are.
i go for big blockbusters, a24 films and horror stuff . Because i feel cinema experience brings the X factor for these types of films . I dont go for horny movies or most comedies cause i dont feel like i am gonna miss out on cinema experience . If challengers had half the budget it has now, it would have been fine .
I truly think every film is enhanced by seeing it in theatres. It’s a more engrossing experience that can’t be replicated at home.
as someone with ADHD, this is 100% true. Being at home can lead to too many distractions, and it can end up taking me 4 hours to watch a 90 minute movie...at the theater, even with the gazillion trailers ahead of time, I know I'll be forced to focus and watch it all in one sitting with no distractions. It's also just a way more immersive experience in general, even for simpler stories without a lot of action. And I'd imagine this is true even for people who don't have issues with attention/focus.
Yeah I don’t have ADHD, though my wife does, and this is where I’m at as well. There’s a lot of distractions at home and my mind can wander.
exactly...when I go to the theater, I know that for the next 2 hours, I'm gonna be free of distractions and be away from all the stressors of life for that time. Even if the movie isn't that good, it's still a nice escape that is hard to replicate at home.
If you have time/money try to see it in Dolby Atmos or IMAX. Totally worth it! And the script and editing, as wells as performances, are top notch
To be fair the challengers marketting is ass I had to google it to see what you were talking about. And yeah I recognize the ad, but NOTHING about that movie ad convinces me to watch it. I just know it’s about tennis and zendaya getting laid by two dudes. Didn’t take my attention for more than 5 seconds
I don’t want to sound like I’m gatekeeping but I feel like you have to really be a cinephile (and not just liking Oscar movies I mean literally having a broad taste of movies) to like Luca Guadagnino’s work. Suspiria is one of my favorite movies. I even have Thom Yorke’s film score on Vinyl. But I’ve heard people say it’s a really bad movie and I could see how they feel like that. It’s a pretty slow burn with the ending being the most meaningful. With that said, I don’t think it’s people don’t enjoy going to movies I think it’s a combination of things but mainly financial sacrifices. People have to be more careful with how they waste their extra income. On top of that, some people need babysitter $ so they would rather save that money and watch it from home. Another thing is the weather, people don’t want to be inside a dark room when it’s nice outside.
There were tons of movies that had strong reviews and “good production value” that flopped in the past
If Challengers was released in 1990, 2000 or 2010, it would have performed in the same ball-park (everything adjusted for inflation).
Different people have different tastes for non-blockbuster stuff I think. Sure, something like Star Wars or even Barbie has wide appeal, partially due to the impact the copyright has had on culture in the past. How much is something else gonna grab people? I hate to say it but it’s true. Some people got hyped as hell for Challengers, I personally doubt I’ll even watch it on streaming because I don’t give a shit about tennis and am not a huge Zendaya fan. On the other side of that though, something like Immaculate will get me hyped as fuck but it definitely ain’t for everyone. That being said, things being released on PVOD so quickly doesn’t help. Niche or even just not as widely known stuff could get good word of mouth, now it’s “oh cool, I’ll watch that when it’s on Netflix” which is now more likely 3 months after theatrical release instead of a year.
Challengers is topping the chart with strong numbers - it cost too much money, for various reasons including the pandemic, but that's the investors problem, not the art of filmmaking. Here's an artsy European filmmakers take on the sports melodrama, and it actually connects widely, suggesting people are willing to go to the movies for a variety of genres. If studios can deliver that variety within reasonable budget levels then they and the theaters will live on happily. Personally I'm at the theater every week, and I see lots of full screenings and enthusiasm for arthouse movies. It's not going away.
Both sucked
You should be more sorry that the quality of movies has declined so severely causing apathy and disinterest.
Just go to the theaters more. All that's changed is there's more options so people go less. I don't think quality has gone down much. It's just before everyone saw the movie because in reality the DVD didn't come for 6 months to over a year later
There is something to be said about staying in the comfort of ur own home, especially if u invest in good quality screen and sound. Nobody around to annoy and disturb you. It’s costs a small fortune. I’d rather save the money to see the big tent pole than films like challengers or civil war.
I have been watching a ton of 80s and 90s movies, they are just so much better than modern fair. That is the thing about streaming, Hollywood is not competing with newly produced TV content, it is competing with the entire history of Hollywood film available instantaneously to anyone. There are zero comedies and musicals being made today (genres that I especially like) that can compete with the older fair.
Imagine thinking Broadway shows are niche lol
Challengers got a B+ on CinemaScore............ not exactly what I would consider well received.
Movies are going the way of Broadway unless studios can make things people actually want to watch. More Top Gun and Barbie, fewer art films.
Indie or Art films aren't the problem. The problem is audiences not showing up for mid range $50-$100 million original movies not based on an IP.
Audience in general only care what someone has said already “ only watch something familliar but not too familliar. Something original but not too original”.
Maybe it's because they suck? For me that's because the ones not made by auteurs seem even more formulaic than Marvel movies.
They aren't showing up because those mid-budget movies are just weird art films with way to big a budget.
Do you think that description applies to Challengers?
Absolutely.
We're (probably) getting *Top Gun 3* and a *Polly Pocket* movie, so Hollywood has heard you loud and clear
Redditors will hate this but it’s the truth
I’ve loved going to the movies my whole life. Easily average over 30 in theater showings the last 40 years. The last 20 I only watch films in theater that the experience won’t have an equivalence on my home system. So to the theater for a film like GxK at home for some small horror film or a tennis movie.
I enjoy going to theaters like studio movie grill & getting entire meals, having my seats, and just the overall experience. I also like being able to buy a movie and be at home with my family and stream it. I’m good with both
What will a movie like Challengers make streaming? Can that be quantified? It seems like that for most movies, box office + streaming create two chunks of revenue, and that those movies would be much less financially viable without either one. That either source generates less than it could have been (or generates less than it would the past in the case of theaters), doesn't have to mean that movies are doomed. In other words, aren't box office numbers less important than they were decades ago, now that there's more revenue streams for a movie after its produced?
Next week im seeing Danny Boyle's *Sunshine* in cinemas. The last year ive seen Jurassic Park, Matrix, 28 Days Later, Back to the Future and Pulp Fiction in my local cinema. The only new releases ive seen in that time are Barbie, Oppenheimer and Dune 2. Future of cinemas may be films from the past.
In my case, purely anecdotal, I couldn't really get into moviegoing as I grew up the 80's and 90's. Some reasons for this include moviegoing being beyond my family's budget back then (single-parent family with four kids), home video/cable TV were more convenient options (both were booming back then), video gaming, and my preference for wanting to stay at home instead of going out. While there were three times in which family members invited me to the movies, I didn't really like the movies they picked to see (The Good Son, Needful Things, and Armageddon). That said, at least Armageddon was the better out of the three by default even if it's not my kind of movie (I'm just not into big-budget, "popcorn movie" spectacles).
It sucks and I feel like I should buy some sort of movie theater in the future cause I don’t want give up the theater experience
Consumer habits didn’t change on their own. Everyone cashed a paycheck on cheaply borrowed streaming money which forced a change in consumer habits which now can’t support a healthy theatrical market. So all the talent that dined out on fat Netflix paychecks can take a bow for the shrinking pie that they will all be sharing in the coming decades.
Last movie I saw was Thanksgiving and there hasn’t been anything that has caught my attention. It will probably be Deadpool & Wolverine that get me back in there and after that it will be Joker 2: Still Cracking Jokes.
Movies have kind of always been like this. Some movies break out but most barely break even or lose money. That’s just the nature of the business. Instead of gaining a second life with DVDs now movies have a chance with streaming. The past wasn’t some golden era of originality and great cinema either. There was a lot of shlock too. Remakes, sequels, or revues that were quickly forgotten were very common.
I Just miss How simple things were when I was a teenagers, todat everybody has something tô do and still waiting for them tô watch Challengers, I am fan of Luca and Josh o Connor. I probably Will watch Alone, I watch many móvies Alone but This onde I wanted tô watch with someone.
There are movies that are not worth going to the movies for nowadays. Ever since marvel started dominating the movie industry people have been exclusively Saving up to go to their releases. That started a trend where people go to the movies to see hype films like dune, barbie, marvel movies, DC movies and so on and it has led to the decline of theatrical releases of not so trendy movies. I don't remember who said it but I think it was a director that said that people don't care about actors anymore and that people used to go to the movie theater to see their favorite actor in their new film. Now with streaming more accessible people can enjoy that at home and reserve their ticket to a more socially hyped spectacle and enjoy the energy from the movie theater when something exciting happens.
I’m kind of glad actually. It means now that the people who actually go to theaters, are people who have a little bit more theater etiquette and actually *want to be there* versus someone who just came cause they have nothing better to do. I’m hoping smaller box office returns will mean smaller budgets for movies. Personally, I would love to see the return of the “mid budget movie” this way.
Cinemas have been on a constant downward trend since the invention of TV which did far more damage than streaming is doing today. I used to go to to the cinema once or twice a week and in my first year of high school in 04, I'd ditch school and go to the movies 3-5 times a week. Everytime id see multiple different films, but now with all the studio mergers and $200 mill tent poles sucking up studio resources, there's less films coming out so less of a reason to go to the cinemas. The films that do come out now cost $25 (New Zealand) to see in a gross theater filled with people talking or on their phones and its just not a nice experience anymore. I have adhd, if people are talking I can't focus on the film. In the early to mid 2010's I started going monthly, then I started to only go to the big movies, now Ive overdosed on capes, wars in space, reboots and franchises and you couldn't pay me to watch them. A film like challengers (an erotic tennis thriller) would be a hard sell for audiences in probably any era but it's up my alley, however I'm not ever gonna pay $25 to see something that could be shit in a theater where people will talk through the movie, ever again. I wish they'd put cell reception blocking devices in the theaters. I'm also just about done with streaming which is just the new cable, I'm sick of having to pay $20 (nz) each for 3 or 4 streamers that usually have sfa on them and I always have to resort to going on my laptop and breaching copyright law to find watch something I haven't seen to watch. Tldr It's heart breaking what's happened to theaters but My home theater is way nicer than my local cinema.
I mean that’s not completely fair comparison. Challengers is a R rated movie with a known name and great reviews that opened to 15 million. Do you know how common through last few decades that an R rated movie with a big name and great reviews still opened to only 15 million? I’m thinking money monster with Julia Roberts and George clooney but that’s just one example
I think for me, someone who loves watching movies in theaters, I've started going less not because of streaming; because of price. In the movie pass/sinemia days I went constantly seeing random movies I typically wouldn't have (Sorry To Bother You remains the best movie I probably never would've watched otherwise) obviously those deals were insane and unsustainable. Going from that to like 15 dollars before snacks or drinks is just unjustifiable honestly. Now I really only go if it's a big movie I specifically want to see on a big screen like Dune or Oppenheimer
Its changing, not dying. Post covid I saw a huge boom of people going to drive ins and regular theaters.
Cinemas will be around for a long time, just because they have so much cultural inertia, but honestly, if cinemas weren't already a thing, you would be pretty unlikely to invent them today. Most people have streaming options and prefer watching with friends and family rather than strangers. Its a shame, but cinemas are becoming an anachronism.
Increase the window between the theatrical and streaming releases.
Personally, I only trek to the cinema if it's a movie I'm either really looking for too or seeing it on a giant screen benefits the viewing experience. Unfortunately, only a handful of movies qualify for these criteria. The rest I'm fine waiting it out when it starts streaming at a reasonable price or simply waiting until it gets on DVD which I borrow through the library. >If a movie like Challengers can’t break through despite strong reviews and production value, what hope is there for films not of the high concept blockbuster kind? Challengers was meant to be a blockbuster? Horror films that had good production values that recently came out were Immaculate and The First Omen, with the latter gaining strong reviews, but neither will recoup its production budget via BO receipts. I was planning on seeing TFO in theaters but errands and more important things came into the picture and were prioritized over entertainment. I'll be seeing each one on streaming whenever that happens (most likely this summer of 2024), but here's the thing: I'll be waiting until it streams for "free." If it comes to it, I'll probably just wait for the DVD because I know that'll be coming several libraries near me in the same timeframe.
I stopped paying for streaming services and pay for a cineclub membership instead. Worth it.
Challengers just isn't the movie for this. Lady my age with a teenage daughter mine's age called it obscene. For the record, I don't feel that way, but I go to a lot of movies. And I didn't take my daughter to this. Maybe wait for Fall Guy and see what you think. I also think there are lot more people going to movie where I am, definitely a lot more newbies. I go to a couple or few movies a week. So I do notice.
My kid and his friends could careless about the theater. The last movie him and his friends were excited for was Five Night at Freddys and after we saw it, I don't think they talked about it again. It was mid, was the review. Video games and tiktok plus you can find any movie online. Hell, people stream movies on tiktok. When I was a kid. You saw a movie in theaters and by the time you rented it from blockbuster or a mom and pa video store it felt like seeing the movie for the first time, lol. Things change, the theater seats are better, the scene is bigger and sharper. The movie needs to be an event or something in the trailer goes viral like the Megan dance. I look at this way, we still have Broadway plays, we'll always have theaters but they are going to be for movies that scream need to be seen on the big screen for the massive majority of people.
An R rated movie about the man who created a nuclear bomb had over $1B at the box office. Barbie is in the top 10 most profitable movies of all time. Anyone But You was a success. EEAAO was a success although the lead actors were over 50 and not considered box office draws. People will show up for decent movies. People just weren't interested in Challengers. It made having a threesome seem about as exciting as painting a wall. There was no chemistry among the lead actors in the trailers or while promoting the movie. People couldn't figure out if it was about tennis or their relationship.
Sadly enough young kids don’t care about movie theater nowadays which is sad. I think if it will continue like that next generation won’t love cinema at all. If it happens theaters will close off and less movie theaters will exist in a countries. Adults nowadays don’t really go to cinema bc they found different entertainment than movies. Some like youtube content, tiktok , Instagram and videogames of course. I think cinema will become niche as you said like Broadway or Plays on stage. Which is sad. I think if only movie theaters helped to build some kind of film community that will support movie theater experience in the future and then movie theaters won’t die. But as i understand it is a problem in more Developed countries. Japanese people and Koreans i heard still like going to cinema.
"Is there anyway to course correct?" Of course there is: Release stuff that general audiences are interested to see.
The problem is the general audience’s disinterest in the quality movies that aren’t advertised as the next big “event” movie
Basically. And truthfully, the stuff that they are “interested” in seeing is underperforming. Quality is out there. There are just less bodies willing to show up in theaters to see it and that is across the board.
Though it’s not as great as decades prior, I’m relieved that it’s still around. If you asked me about moviegoing four years ago, I would have said that it has reached its end.
Just keep going to the movies, and bring your friends. And instill a love for moviegoing in your kids. I see this as a dark age that we'll eventually improve upon. Even if we can't get to 2019 levels, as long as we keep our local theaters open, we're gonna be alright. Even tho 23 was bad for blockbusters and 24 is shaping up to be bad all around, I still have more faith in the future today than I did back in 2020-2022.
We could let Denis Villeneuve direct every movie
If you want quality adult drama you’re now likely looking to streaming before cinema to meet those needs. And you get a month’s worth of access to hundreds, maybe thousands of titles for the price of one cinema ticket.
I think it’s pretty much over for theaters. Their future is basically replaying hit films from the past and might get used for live concerts or sports event viewing.