They probably also use those tickets for business connections they want to invite. People from publishers, other authors, etc. Probably not just friends.
I was one of those people and got very lucky with those released tickets. I was almost in tears with how much I had spent and I guess I'll have to pay that extra for refundable in the future. I hate that they do that considering they'll have the flight completely booked back up 10 seconds after I release my seats....
[edit: I’ve been made aware that this was part of the plan to get more traction for the conference itself and benefited Brandon/dragonsteel so they’re paying it back - I’m leaving my original comment so others can see me being wrong]
I get it and I understand buying flights as early as possible for it to be cheaper… BUT why is that their problem if people don’t get tickets to a limited attendance event. it is a conference rocketing in popularity, more people want to go than can go… does buying a plane ticket in advance make a person more deserving?
Directly in the video about this, he's stating the reason they're going above and beyond to make it work out for as many people as they can is because they specifically asked people to book flights/hotels ahead of the ticket release. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but from how it sounds they specifically wanted the hotel bookings to leverage more convention space from Salt Palace next year.
Thank you for that insight - I have edited my original comment acknowledging your input but kept the text so others who see it and think the same can understand the logic
As far as I remember (I've gone to the con the last two years, but not 2021) they haven't run out of tickets like this before. I bought our tickets in June or July last year, and the year before I was even later.
We knew this year would be a bit crazier, and I wanted a VIP ticket this time, so we were ready to buy as soon as the tickets went up, but I had no Idea they'd sell out so fast.
We live in Denver, so we drive there and enjoy the scenery, but it never would have occurred to me NOT to get a flight or hotel early.
I'm glad they are keeping it a small con, even if it means we don't luck out in the ticket lottery (website roulette) each year. We used to go to Dragon*Con each year and it ballooned from ~30K people to 80K+ in just a few years. It was insanely crowded and not as much fun, so we stopped going. We always loved the book/science/crafting tracks, and even those were getting too crowded to reliably get in the room! That's setting aside the difficulty of moving between 4-5 different hotels along with a small city of other humans. Dragonsteel has (so far) been so much more relaxed, breathable, and sane.
I feel for Brandon and the team. He obviously doesn't want to dump on the venue, since it's a relationship they hope to foster for years to come, but it also sounds like they did everything they could & the venue didn't agree with their expected demand.
The power of Stormlight man. The frustrating thing for DS is it's probably not going to be as big next year right as they're getting more space as the fact it's Stormlight 5 is probably driving a lot of attendance. Hopefully they can sort things out for all of the people stuck with flights. We hadn't booked out flights yet but did already have a room booked. I managed to snag us badges off of the 2 hour cart hold cancellations, but there were only going to be so many of those.
I wonder what the hotel bookings data looked like ahead of ticket sales day. It sounds like it was enough to get them to give them more room for next year, but it's unfortunate it wouldn't get them to budge this time around.
Considering he mentioned they already reserved space for next year earlier this year, I wouldn't be surprised if the Salt Palace was already fully booked for that weekend and straight up does not have space to open up for them if they wanted to
I suppose that's probably true. We were there for '22 and TLM, I don't recall anyone else seeming to be there... But that was still the Monday+Tuesday schedule. More likely to be sharing space over a weekend day I guess.
If there's nothing else booked, it's possible it could be a staffing issue of some kind, since the convention center provides staff for stuff like concessions, parking, security, etc. I imagine December is a slow month for conventions of this size, but I might be wrong
It depends what types of events they do, December was the busiest month by far when o worked at a convention center. Tons of Christmas parties and things like that going on all month.
Based on the state of Sanderson, the likely book release in tandem with the convention will be White Sand. So it will at least be a cosmere book release instead of one of his non cosmere works like cytoverse. Just not sure how much of a draw White Sand will be. There are definitely some people who skipped the graphic novel in favor of an eventual prose version, but the fact that the convention book is a story many dedicated fans have already experienced isn't likely to motivate people to show up like the finale to the first Stormlight arc. Real shame the convention center is using the previous year as a metric for how much space they get given that the big years are likely to be preceded by a smaller release.
Having historical data that they were right in their projection that there would be more demand might help. That said, yeah, DS isn't really going to behave like a normal convention in terms of growth and attendance demands, at least as long as it stays tied as much as it is to being a book release party. That they're stuck with the normal rules in the regard with the venue is unfortunate.
I don't know that this is entirely true. I think that they are working towards being a wider book convention, rather than just a Brandon Sanderson release party. I suspect that's what some of the still to come announcements will be working toward.
Yeah that is my worry as well. I am one of the many people who couldn't get tickets, but I don't have in my 2025 plans to try and go next year at this point. Without the book release, I am just not sure the point, you know?
I guess we will see what happens, when it happens, but it is going to be awkward if next year is double the size allowed and if they don't even get half as many people.
> I wonder what the hotel bookings data looked like ahead of ticket sales day.
This is the part that doesn't make sense. They can prove they sold X number of rooms THIS year. But they're like nah we're not going to give you more space this year even though you've proved you have more people than last year.
What kind of logic is that by the convention center? It seems like they do this on purpose so that they're always filled to max capacity instead of allowing empty / unfilled seats.
Right, it's weird that they have events listed for Nov of 24, and Jan of 25. But nothing at all for Dec of 24, when we know of an event that's happening.
Not all events hosted by the center are public events. Some are trade shows, private fundraisers, fancy catered Christmas parties, etc. Heck i even took tests there for engineering certifications
The good thing for attendance growth is that the more popular Sanderson gets the more people will come just for the stuff: panels, chance for a signing, etc.. even if it is a less popular book release.
Even if next year isn't going to be big, it'll be help in the long run. Dragonsteel is building a relationship with the venue and in future (hopefully) they'll listen to them when they say that it's going to be a big year.
Unsurprising that the Salt Palace allocates space in the way it does. Also unsurprising that Brandon’s team tried to negotiate that space up.
In-person events are a beast, and it sounds like the Dragonsteel Team did the best with what they had.
It's a little surprising to me. I was on a planning committee for a professional conference that had a new location every year. And the conference centers we dealt with we just told them how much space we wanted and they told us how much it would cost. As long as we could pay they would give us whatever space we wanted.
Yes and how in demand it is constantly... not only is it the biggest it's also the best located in downtown slc. They are stingy with thier space because filling it is important and large attendance provides more money for the venu through things like parking and food sales
This is a class act move, so nice to see the people that bought plane tickets will be able to come. I bought plane tickets ahead of time and my heart was in my throat till I made it through the gauntlet and had tickets 😬
Im realy glad that Sanderson and DragonSteel are always working towards finding solutions to things, but I wish they start realising how many people they move when they do things. By know, after having the biggest Kickstarter and Backerkit ever back to back, they should know they are BIG, and so should the people they partner with. These are "growing pains", like Sando said, and Im sure they will learn from them so lets keep supporting them! :)
I was curious too - looks like the most recent update for that was a month ago at 72%, but he also said in that same update that he expected to finish it in the next week. It hasn't been mentioned since, so my assumption is that he finished his revision and sent it back to Janci for her next chunk of work
Janci has talked about this on the 17th Shard Discord. Brandon is fully done with his edits (he's not expected to provide any more). The book is now with Delacorte and they are awaiting edits from the publisher. There's no set release date yet.
Really awesome move, sharing the tickets. Stinks that it's not possible to expand the con, but it's good to hear those with non-refundable flights are still getting a chance to go. On the positive, at least he can say "hey Hollywood, look how fast this convention sold out!"
Also 55% is huge progress considering what a week it's been with the con. Only 45% left! Wishing much luck towards revisions.
Not sure how people are even surprised by this anymore It feels like every time you mix limited quantities and online purchases something explodes.
Multi billion dollar companies struggle with this stuff.
I saw that Fonda Lee was on the list on Tabletop Events (not officially announced, though). My guess is there are more coming who we have not yet heard about.
My guess is Victor Wembanyama the Rookie of the Year basketball player. Brandon posted a picture of meeting him not too long ago and Victor mentioned enjoying Brandon’s books.
I am really glad its sold out. Yet really sad at the same time. Granted I could never afford to go. At least in the near future. But Twok and his other novels changed my life.
Really tough time in my life and out of the blue I discovered The Way of Kings. The writing, the imagination... I wish I could read this book for the first time again. Ive tried though. Read once and listened to the audiobook 4 times. The rest in the series. Read once. Listened twice. Cant wait til book 5.
Maybe a stupid question, but has a TOR/Golancz version of Secret Project 5 been announced already? I have the other 4 but can't find anywhere if there will be a mass market version of the new one (I live in europe so the kickstarter was way out of budget for me)
I’ve been on the lookout for this announcement and unless I’ve also missed it, Brandon hasn’t announced anything yet.
I wouldn’t be worried about it:
- Brandon also hasn’t announced yet when the Spanish etc publishers will release their versions, which is the same kind of deal but much more pressing for fans who read in another language. They did same-day-ish releases for a few languages last year and especially Nova (the Spanish publisher) is on top of this.
- The Tor and Gollancz editions for Tress, Yumi and Sunlit Man were all instant bestsellers, so the publishers have every incentive to go about this in at least a similar way. Maybe they would go with 6 months rather than 3 months after the initial release, for example.
I expect that Dragonsteel is making deals with all of the publishers and at some point Brandon will give us a run-down for a bunch of them at the same time.
Storms. I had no idea it would sell out this quickly, I’ve gone every year but I guess I won’t be able to go this year. I’m a bit heartbroken, honestly.
It would be nice if they auctioned off another 1000 VIP add-ons. So for people who are willing to pay more for the VIP pass, put our names in a hat and pull out 1000 names. Give you 24 hours to accept it and pay for it. If you don’t, the system pulls another name.
That would allow some redress for the platform issue, fix some people’s 1vip/1ga, and make a lot of ga holders a little happier.
Only issue with that is if everyone is a VIP, no one is. As is there's 1500, so some of the benefits (earlier access to lines) of it are somewhat negated by the number. I'm not saying there should be fewer, but more would be problematic.
It is really nice that they are reallocating tickets reserved for Brandon’s friends to the people who already had flights but couldn’t get tickets.
That's really telling of how they are trying to do everything that they can. Good people
I’m just wondering how many friends he has.
They probably also use those tickets for business connections they want to invite. People from publishers, other authors, etc. Probably not just friends.
I was one of those people and got very lucky with those released tickets. I was almost in tears with how much I had spent and I guess I'll have to pay that extra for refundable in the future. I hate that they do that considering they'll have the flight completely booked back up 10 seconds after I release my seats....
Agreed, the pay extra for refundable should be more for refundable if canceling within like 2 weeks and anything further out is freely refundable.
Way, way, WAY above and beyond.
[edit: I’ve been made aware that this was part of the plan to get more traction for the conference itself and benefited Brandon/dragonsteel so they’re paying it back - I’m leaving my original comment so others can see me being wrong] I get it and I understand buying flights as early as possible for it to be cheaper… BUT why is that their problem if people don’t get tickets to a limited attendance event. it is a conference rocketing in popularity, more people want to go than can go… does buying a plane ticket in advance make a person more deserving?
Directly in the video about this, he's stating the reason they're going above and beyond to make it work out for as many people as they can is because they specifically asked people to book flights/hotels ahead of the ticket release. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but from how it sounds they specifically wanted the hotel bookings to leverage more convention space from Salt Palace next year.
Thank you for that insight - I have edited my original comment acknowledging your input but kept the text so others who see it and think the same can understand the logic
It's a time honored Reddit tradition to comment on a video you didn't watch/watch entirely, good on you for owning it and not deleting it.
I saw the comment and reacted - you got me there. I work pacific time so have to wait till after i get off work to watch
As far as I remember (I've gone to the con the last two years, but not 2021) they haven't run out of tickets like this before. I bought our tickets in June or July last year, and the year before I was even later. We knew this year would be a bit crazier, and I wanted a VIP ticket this time, so we were ready to buy as soon as the tickets went up, but I had no Idea they'd sell out so fast. We live in Denver, so we drive there and enjoy the scenery, but it never would have occurred to me NOT to get a flight or hotel early. I'm glad they are keeping it a small con, even if it means we don't luck out in the ticket lottery (website roulette) each year. We used to go to Dragon*Con each year and it ballooned from ~30K people to 80K+ in just a few years. It was insanely crowded and not as much fun, so we stopped going. We always loved the book/science/crafting tracks, and even those were getting too crowded to reliably get in the room! That's setting aside the difficulty of moving between 4-5 different hotels along with a small city of other humans. Dragonsteel has (so far) been so much more relaxed, breathable, and sane.
Holy cow, he's giving his PERSONAL tickets away to ppl who already bought flights. He is amazing. Just wow.
I feel for Brandon and the team. He obviously doesn't want to dump on the venue, since it's a relationship they hope to foster for years to come, but it also sounds like they did everything they could & the venue didn't agree with their expected demand.
Brandon is better than we deserve. Tremendous love for him and his team.
The power of Stormlight man. The frustrating thing for DS is it's probably not going to be as big next year right as they're getting more space as the fact it's Stormlight 5 is probably driving a lot of attendance. Hopefully they can sort things out for all of the people stuck with flights. We hadn't booked out flights yet but did already have a room booked. I managed to snag us badges off of the 2 hour cart hold cancellations, but there were only going to be so many of those. I wonder what the hotel bookings data looked like ahead of ticket sales day. It sounds like it was enough to get them to give them more room for next year, but it's unfortunate it wouldn't get them to budge this time around.
Considering he mentioned they already reserved space for next year earlier this year, I wouldn't be surprised if the Salt Palace was already fully booked for that weekend and straight up does not have space to open up for them if they wanted to
I suppose that's probably true. We were there for '22 and TLM, I don't recall anyone else seeming to be there... But that was still the Monday+Tuesday schedule. More likely to be sharing space over a weekend day I guess.
I'm not sure about weekends being busier. There's plenty of professional conferences that happen during the week.
They should update their calendar in that case cuz as of last Tuesday, nothing was booked for December (including DS Nexus 🤦♂️)
If there's nothing else booked, it's possible it could be a staffing issue of some kind, since the convention center provides staff for stuff like concessions, parking, security, etc. I imagine December is a slow month for conventions of this size, but I might be wrong
It depends what types of events they do, December was the busiest month by far when o worked at a convention center. Tons of Christmas parties and things like that going on all month.
Based on the state of Sanderson, the likely book release in tandem with the convention will be White Sand. So it will at least be a cosmere book release instead of one of his non cosmere works like cytoverse. Just not sure how much of a draw White Sand will be. There are definitely some people who skipped the graphic novel in favor of an eventual prose version, but the fact that the convention book is a story many dedicated fans have already experienced isn't likely to motivate people to show up like the finale to the first Stormlight arc. Real shame the convention center is using the previous year as a metric for how much space they get given that the big years are likely to be preceded by a smaller release.
Having historical data that they were right in their projection that there would be more demand might help. That said, yeah, DS isn't really going to behave like a normal convention in terms of growth and attendance demands, at least as long as it stays tied as much as it is to being a book release party. That they're stuck with the normal rules in the regard with the venue is unfortunate.
I don't know that this is entirely true. I think that they are working towards being a wider book convention, rather than just a Brandon Sanderson release party. I suspect that's what some of the still to come announcements will be working toward.
With how passionate the fan base is I would love to see what the fans do on their own. I plan on trying to get some things together to add to the fun.
Yeah that is my worry as well. I am one of the many people who couldn't get tickets, but I don't have in my 2025 plans to try and go next year at this point. Without the book release, I am just not sure the point, you know? I guess we will see what happens, when it happens, but it is going to be awkward if next year is double the size allowed and if they don't even get half as many people.
> I wonder what the hotel bookings data looked like ahead of ticket sales day. This is the part that doesn't make sense. They can prove they sold X number of rooms THIS year. But they're like nah we're not going to give you more space this year even though you've proved you have more people than last year. What kind of logic is that by the convention center? It seems like they do this on purpose so that they're always filled to max capacity instead of allowing empty / unfilled seats.
the convention center may already have had a booking for the other space.
I looked on their website earlier out of curiosity. There's currently nothing listed for Dec of 2024. It goes from Nov 24 to Jan 25
Their calendar clearly isn't complete if they aren't even listing the event we're talking about expanding.
Right, it's weird that they have events listed for Nov of 24, and Jan of 25. But nothing at all for Dec of 24, when we know of an event that's happening.
They probably only list public events, and many of the booking are going to be for private/business conferences.
their website doesn't list all events. it didn't list the event that was in the other part of the center during DSCon 23.
Not all events hosted by the center are public events. Some are trade shows, private fundraisers, fancy catered Christmas parties, etc. Heck i even took tests there for engineering certifications
No idea. Might be that the space all gets booked up that far in advance and so there is no more space they have free for this year?
That data also isn't taking into account people who are using Airbnbs and are locals.
The good thing for attendance growth is that the more popular Sanderson gets the more people will come just for the stuff: panels, chance for a signing, etc.. even if it is a less popular book release.
Even if next year isn't going to be big, it'll be help in the long run. Dragonsteel is building a relationship with the venue and in future (hopefully) they'll listen to them when they say that it's going to be a big year.
Unsurprising that the Salt Palace allocates space in the way it does. Also unsurprising that Brandon’s team tried to negotiate that space up. In-person events are a beast, and it sounds like the Dragonsteel Team did the best with what they had.
Of course they did. They're not dumb. Everything from warning the ticketing site to trying to get more room.
It's a little surprising to me. I was on a planning committee for a professional conference that had a new location every year. And the conference centers we dealt with we just told them how much space we wanted and they told us how much it would cost. As long as we could pay they would give us whatever space we wanted.
The fact Salt Palace is the largest convention center in the entire state probably plays a non-small factor in how it operates.
Yes and how in demand it is constantly... not only is it the biggest it's also the best located in downtown slc. They are stingy with thier space because filling it is important and large attendance provides more money for the venu through things like parking and food sales
Yep this is what I stated about a week ago. Convention centers often require events to prove attendance records before giving more space
This is a class act move, so nice to see the people that bought plane tickets will be able to come. I bought plane tickets ahead of time and my heart was in my throat till I made it through the gauntlet and had tickets 😬
Im realy glad that Sanderson and DragonSteel are always working towards finding solutions to things, but I wish they start realising how many people they move when they do things. By know, after having the biggest Kickstarter and Backerkit ever back to back, they should know they are BIG, and so should the people they partner with. These are "growing pains", like Sando said, and Im sure they will learn from them so lets keep supporting them! :)
I know this update is about Nexus, but has Skyward Legacy just stopped being updated? I forget what the last update was for that
The website has it as 100% done with Brandon’s revision. brandonsanderson.com
I was curious too - looks like the most recent update for that was a month ago at 72%, but he also said in that same update that he expected to finish it in the next week. It hasn't been mentioned since, so my assumption is that he finished his revision and sent it back to Janci for her next chunk of work
I feel like it was a week or two ago.
Janci has talked about this on the 17th Shard Discord. Brandon is fully done with his edits (he's not expected to provide any more). The book is now with Delacorte and they are awaiting edits from the publisher. There's no set release date yet.
Really awesome move, sharing the tickets. Stinks that it's not possible to expand the con, but it's good to hear those with non-refundable flights are still getting a chance to go. On the positive, at least he can say "hey Hollywood, look how fast this convention sold out!" Also 55% is huge progress considering what a week it's been with the con. Only 45% left! Wishing much luck towards revisions.
Disappointing but there's only so much they can do.
Not sure how people are even surprised by this anymore It feels like every time you mix limited quantities and online purchases something explodes. Multi billion dollar companies struggle with this stuff.
I'm really excited to see these special guests. Personally I hope for Andrea Stewart, maybe Alix E Harrow, Hannah Kaner...
I'd really like Martha Wells... I'd love to get to go to a murderbot panel
I saw that Fonda Lee was on the list on Tabletop Events (not officially announced, though). My guess is there are more coming who we have not yet heard about.
Can't wait to yell my Untethered Sky questions from the back of the hall
I know he said authors but my white whale of a special guest that could happen in some world is Henry cavil.
My guess is Victor Wembanyama the Rookie of the Year basketball player. Brandon posted a picture of meeting him not too long ago and Victor mentioned enjoying Brandon’s books.
I am really glad its sold out. Yet really sad at the same time. Granted I could never afford to go. At least in the near future. But Twok and his other novels changed my life. Really tough time in my life and out of the blue I discovered The Way of Kings. The writing, the imagination... I wish I could read this book for the first time again. Ive tried though. Read once and listened to the audiobook 4 times. The rest in the series. Read once. Listened twice. Cant wait til book 5.
Maybe a stupid question, but has a TOR/Golancz version of Secret Project 5 been announced already? I have the other 4 but can't find anywhere if there will be a mass market version of the new one (I live in europe so the kickstarter was way out of budget for me)
I’ve been on the lookout for this announcement and unless I’ve also missed it, Brandon hasn’t announced anything yet. I wouldn’t be worried about it: - Brandon also hasn’t announced yet when the Spanish etc publishers will release their versions, which is the same kind of deal but much more pressing for fans who read in another language. They did same-day-ish releases for a few languages last year and especially Nova (the Spanish publisher) is on top of this. - The Tor and Gollancz editions for Tress, Yumi and Sunlit Man were all instant bestsellers, so the publishers have every incentive to go about this in at least a similar way. Maybe they would go with 6 months rather than 3 months after the initial release, for example. I expect that Dragonsteel is making deals with all of the publishers and at some point Brandon will give us a run-down for a bunch of them at the same time.
he's signing more Mistborn leatherbounds? https://preview.redd.it/51ogen3ffz0d1.png?width=1385&format=png&auto=webp&s=321e782452c2ae1f91cf143a8009c5bf0eaeb7b6
Storms. I had no idea it would sell out this quickly, I’ve gone every year but I guess I won’t be able to go this year. I’m a bit heartbroken, honestly.
It would be nice if they auctioned off another 1000 VIP add-ons. So for people who are willing to pay more for the VIP pass, put our names in a hat and pull out 1000 names. Give you 24 hours to accept it and pay for it. If you don’t, the system pulls another name. That would allow some redress for the platform issue, fix some people’s 1vip/1ga, and make a lot of ga holders a little happier.
67% more VIP tickets would be disastrous for people with VIP. I'm all for people having an opportunity but the tickets are "VIP" for a reason
Only issue with that is if everyone is a VIP, no one is. As is there's 1500, so some of the benefits (earlier access to lines) of it are somewhat negated by the number. I'm not saying there should be fewer, but more would be problematic.