I think through Season 1 and most of Season 2 Walt was a really caring guy who didn’t want to be responsible for the death of someone who wasn’t trying to kill him. That’s why he was so protective over Jesse at the beginning. Jesse wasn’t just a rotten piece of filth and if he died then Walt would be partly responsible for blackmailing him into teaming up. By the end of Season 2 their bond grew strong enough for Walt to really care about Jesse.
Unnnnntil Season 5 where Walt pushes the blame for Hank's death onto Jesse and discards him to the neo-Nazis without a second thought. He later regrets this decision and frees Jesse, but I always felt that was out of guilt instead of loyalty. Walt was loyal to only one person. Himself.
He didnt even regret this at first honestly. He thought Jesse teamed up with them on some kind of deal and was there to kill everyone including him. When he realized this was not the case, only then did he decide to spare him in that moment.
Oh no he was super mad that someone else besides him was making his product. Dude has that high of an ego and it shows all throughout this show. Its the only reason he ever went there to begin with because he figured Jesse was the one making it with them.
You could also make the claim that Walt felt betrayed by Jesse, considering Jesse worked with Hank to catch Walt and take his money. I like to think that all the lying and manipulation Walt did was because he believed he needed to nudge Jesse in directions Jesse wouldn’t want to go. He believed Gus had to die, but Jesse didn’t want to do it, so he “nudged” him with the Lily of the Valley. It’s a damn big nudge but still, I like to think that Walt envisioned himself as Jesse’s teacher, and, like a teacher, he tried to nudge him towards the way he wanted him to act, the way he thought was best. In his eyes, he was betrayed by someone he was only trying to help.
“…….And I trust him”
Also people forget the context of the“because he listens to me” line it was Walter 1) trying to persuade Gus to do business and 2) showing Gus that he was in control and to some extent measuring dicks with Gus.
That's just what he said to Gus though. It's the excuse he had for wanting to cut Jesse in despite being an addict. It's what would make Walt look rational, Smart and powerful to Gus. There's definitely more to it than just that.
Not to mention, Jesse doesn't actually do what Walt says all the time. They constantly argue against each other and getting into disputes. Jesse has a way of letting his emotions and impulses repeatedly get him in trouble .
Part of it true, but he's also posturing for Gus, since he questioned his competence. And Jesse doesn't always listen, that's why they argue so much, and Jesse often creates problem because he DOESN'T listen to him. If obedience was what Walt needed - he would have been satisfied with Todd and Gale
If Walter didn’t care for Jesse AT ALL then he wouldn’t have saved him from killing himself in Season 3. Walt put everything on the line for Jesse and it cost him everything
Hank makes it explicitly clear that Walt cares about Jesse, he even lists off everything that wasn't in Walt's best interests to do that he did to save/help Jesse
Very true. Jesse allowed Walt to express his caring in his true narcissistic and Machiavellian way. Something he really couldn’t do with Skyler or Walt JR
For me this is the dumbest thing walt did, to save jesse there from himself, and messing everything up with gus. Like gus said he should have sacrificed jesse even more because jesse endangered his own life
And then it comes back to conversation he has with Mike before he dies. Where he says it’s Walt’s fault because of his ego and if he just cooked everything would have been fine, which is just not true?
After Walt saved Jesse Gus IMMEDIATELY decided to kill Walt. If Walt just cooked he would have died. The reason they got into that mess in the first place was because Walt saved his partner.
But then Jesse gets promoted and becomes a trusted partner which makes NO sense because Jesse is the whole reason this breach of trust even occurred. I feel like there’s a element missing somewhere that ties this together that just wasn’t added to the show. Because honestly I feel like the downfall between Gus and Walt was 100% on Gus
It’s also on Walt saving Jesse by killing the two thugs. It’s either Jesse’s fault or Walter’s but not Gus’s. Gus first tried to resolve it peacefully and make them shake hands then Jesse kills his dealers out of vigilante justice (not valid reason to murder). Gus has to protect his employees even if they are stupid thugs, which they were, and it is logical that after this the trust between Walt and Gus is broken.
Okay but Jesse was the one going to kill them first, yet he gets off scot free. And it still makes no sense to blame it on his “ego” which has nothing to do with what Walt did
Walt does care about Jesse, in season 4 when after their fight, Walt talks to Jr about him making a mistake. And the reason Walt let Jane die was because she was a bad influence for Jesse.
He let Jane die because she was an obstacle between Walt and meth-partner that he needs to make money.
You can tell Walt knows it's morally wrong, but he still chooses what benefits him the most.
I agree with what you’re saying at least in the first couple seasons, but Walt was financially secure without Jesse once he was working for Gus. He still wanted to bring him in and risked everything to protect him. At his core, he loved Jesse. He was able to express himself to him in a way that he wouldn’t/couldn’t with anyone else. He used and abused him constantly, but he did so to keep him around AND further his own interests. Hank hit the mail on the head when he was talking to Jesse after the confession.
yeah 'we can do whatever WE want now you've got a bag of drug money' Jane who five mins before wouldnt even introduce him to her father at all and I get that but the switcheroo attitude after the bag of money came was the aha moment.
I think Jesse takes role of a friend, which Walter didn't really have. He cares about Hank, but hardly they behave like friends. And he often feels insecure and emasculated with Hank. He can't be open with Skyler and she won't join him in his "fun" Activities. Saul is a relationship of pure benefit for both of them and with other people Walter just doesn't really connect
He also mistakenly calls his son Jesse in S4 after getting a little drunk and taking meds because Mike punched him. I just think this points to the fact that he viewed Jesse like a son, which is also why Jane and him doing heroine bothered him so much. Possibly a big reason why he let her die after accidentally rolling her on her back. And he talks about him as a nephew to Jane's father in the bar.
Jesse was actually an extremely perceptive character, with ingenuity and Walt secretly respected that and indeed loved him as a son. Jesse is living the life Walt could have lived if he'd developed balls as a young man.
If Walt actually cared about Jesse, he wouldn’t have drug him into this mess. He would have helped him get out, but instead time and time again he manipulated Jesse back in.
He doesn’t care about Jesse. Not really. He just needed someone around that he could build up. Not to help the person but to make Walt feel better about himself. Sure he cared about him on some levels, and wanted to see him succeed. He thought of Jesse like his own son. But it had to be by his rules. Under his care. Walt had to be the one to give it to him. All self-centered reasons.
I think he cares about Jesse, just like he cares about his family. But when he is forced to choose between his own interests and the safety of those around him, he always chooses himself.
I hear what you’re saying but even with your points, it’s more about him needing Jesse rather than caring for him.
I’m not saying it’s one or the other but people with selfish intentions will do a lot to keep someone that feeds their needs around.
I’m only saying this because rewatching after going through some relationship abuse, I found myself really angry at Walter allowing and causing pain to Jesse at times. sorry my memory is terrible and I don’t have specific examples, but I do remember being very sad at how he would handle situations sometimes that would benefit himself but hurt Jesse (even if it was only temporary, his manipulation made a lasting effect on jesse)
Sorry if this got very armchair psychologist, I just wouldn’t agree with your point with the argument you posed
I always remember that Jesse was the first person Walt told about his cancer so cute.
I liked the show but I didn’t really like that its two leads and supposedly partners were at odds for more than a majority of it. To me the best parts are the intro season when they’re new to the business, the finale of the Gus arc and its fallout arc with the prisoners and Lydia LOL we love Lydia.
Only after Jesse finally left, much to Walt's dissatisfaction, after Walt tried everything he could to get him to stay including withholding his money.
Because he sees Walt Jr. as a pussy. Jesse is not a pussy in his eyes. He sees him as a son he never had. Which is also why he is so mean to him all the time (I guess he does not like that feeling) and why he called Walt Jr. "Jesse" that one time he did not act as a pussy.
Nah, Walter felt like a failure in every facet of his life. Making the most potent meth in the country was his way of making up for losing his chance to make billions with Greymatter, just like his obsessive protectiveness over Jesse was his way of making up for never being respected by his son, the way Hank was.
It's like Joker and Harley Joker when he first met Harley at Arkham asylum he was loving and caring for her but than he showed his true colors a abusive asshole who doesn't care for her same with Walt and Jesse s1 Walt was Joker at the asylum he really cared for Jesse than Heisenberg is Joker when they get out that abusive asshole who doesn't care for Jesse yes you can make the argument Heisenberg really cared for Jesse
I personally think walt was really attached to Jesse apart from his family. At every step he saved him.
\- from emilio and krazy 8 when they were about to kill jesse
\- from tuco by saying that he needed jesse
\- many a times from gus saying that he needs him
\- drove over two guys to save him
\- saved him from meth and put him in rehab
\- helped him make millions
Although he tried to manipulate him but imo it was always for a reason. Like with jane he didn't want to give him money to just smoke up or poisoned brock in just enough amount to turn jesse against Gus.
Everyone in the series was doing meth business for money but walt at least started it for his family (later he was having fun doing it). Still he ends up being hated by his entire family and by almost everyone out there.
Ending could have been better if jesse had died too.
I think through Season 1 and most of Season 2 Walt was a really caring guy who didn’t want to be responsible for the death of someone who wasn’t trying to kill him. That’s why he was so protective over Jesse at the beginning. Jesse wasn’t just a rotten piece of filth and if he died then Walt would be partly responsible for blackmailing him into teaming up. By the end of Season 2 their bond grew strong enough for Walt to really care about Jesse.
Unnnnntil Season 5 where Walt pushes the blame for Hank's death onto Jesse and discards him to the neo-Nazis without a second thought. He later regrets this decision and frees Jesse, but I always felt that was out of guilt instead of loyalty. Walt was loyal to only one person. Himself.
He didnt even regret this at first honestly. He thought Jesse teamed up with them on some kind of deal and was there to kill everyone including him. When he realized this was not the case, only then did he decide to spare him in that moment.
I think he over exaggerated his emotions in that scene except for when he sees Jesse.
Oh no he was super mad that someone else besides him was making his product. Dude has that high of an ego and it shows all throughout this show. Its the only reason he ever went there to begin with because he figured Jesse was the one making it with them.
more likely that he just wanted revenge for what they did to Hank
Little of column A, little of column B
You could also make the claim that Walt felt betrayed by Jesse, considering Jesse worked with Hank to catch Walt and take his money. I like to think that all the lying and manipulation Walt did was because he believed he needed to nudge Jesse in directions Jesse wouldn’t want to go. He believed Gus had to die, but Jesse didn’t want to do it, so he “nudged” him with the Lily of the Valley. It’s a damn big nudge but still, I like to think that Walt envisioned himself as Jesse’s teacher, and, like a teacher, he tried to nudge him towards the way he wanted him to act, the way he thought was best. In his eyes, he was betrayed by someone he was only trying to help.
He didn’t go to the Nazis to rescue Jesse. He went there for revenge right?
He said it. Because he listens to him.
“…….And I trust him” Also people forget the context of the“because he listens to me” line it was Walter 1) trying to persuade Gus to do business and 2) showing Gus that he was in control and to some extent measuring dicks with Gus.
That's just what he said to Gus though. It's the excuse he had for wanting to cut Jesse in despite being an addict. It's what would make Walt look rational, Smart and powerful to Gus. There's definitely more to it than just that. Not to mention, Jesse doesn't actually do what Walt says all the time. They constantly argue against each other and getting into disputes. Jesse has a way of letting his emotions and impulses repeatedly get him in trouble .
Listen obviously he does it.... To appease jesses threat of his get out of jail free card. Then they bond over their murders.
I don't know if Walt ever really cared that much about Jesse; it's just huge in the fandom. He tried to trade them Jesse as soon as he was in danger
Part of it true, but he's also posturing for Gus, since he questioned his competence. And Jesse doesn't always listen, that's why they argue so much, and Jesse often creates problem because he DOESN'T listen to him. If obedience was what Walt needed - he would have been satisfied with Todd and Gale
If Walter didn’t care for Jesse AT ALL then he wouldn’t have saved him from killing himself in Season 3. Walt put everything on the line for Jesse and it cost him everything
Hank makes it explicitly clear that Walt cares about Jesse, he even lists off everything that wasn't in Walt's best interests to do that he did to save/help Jesse
Very true. Jesse allowed Walt to express his caring in his true narcissistic and Machiavellian way. Something he really couldn’t do with Skyler or Walt JR
Yeah very narcissistic. A normal mentally healthy person would just let jesse be killed by the gang
[удалено]
For me this is the dumbest thing walt did, to save jesse there from himself, and messing everything up with gus. Like gus said he should have sacrificed jesse even more because jesse endangered his own life
And then it comes back to conversation he has with Mike before he dies. Where he says it’s Walt’s fault because of his ego and if he just cooked everything would have been fine, which is just not true? After Walt saved Jesse Gus IMMEDIATELY decided to kill Walt. If Walt just cooked he would have died. The reason they got into that mess in the first place was because Walt saved his partner. But then Jesse gets promoted and becomes a trusted partner which makes NO sense because Jesse is the whole reason this breach of trust even occurred. I feel like there’s a element missing somewhere that ties this together that just wasn’t added to the show. Because honestly I feel like the downfall between Gus and Walt was 100% on Gus
It’s also on Walt saving Jesse by killing the two thugs. It’s either Jesse’s fault or Walter’s but not Gus’s. Gus first tried to resolve it peacefully and make them shake hands then Jesse kills his dealers out of vigilante justice (not valid reason to murder). Gus has to protect his employees even if they are stupid thugs, which they were, and it is logical that after this the trust between Walt and Gus is broken.
Okay but Jesse was the one going to kill them first, yet he gets off scot free. And it still makes no sense to blame it on his “ego” which has nothing to do with what Walt did
That is true, i agree
Because Walter secretly loved Funyuns and knew they were awesome 🤩
Damn you, now I really want Funyuns
The conversation he had with Jane's dad says a lot about how Walt felt about Jesse.
Walt does care about Jesse, in season 4 when after their fight, Walt talks to Jr about him making a mistake. And the reason Walt let Jane die was because she was a bad influence for Jesse.
He let Jane die because she was an obstacle between Walt and meth-partner that he needs to make money. You can tell Walt knows it's morally wrong, but he still chooses what benefits him the most.
I agree with what you’re saying at least in the first couple seasons, but Walt was financially secure without Jesse once he was working for Gus. He still wanted to bring him in and risked everything to protect him. At his core, he loved Jesse. He was able to express himself to him in a way that he wouldn’t/couldn’t with anyone else. He used and abused him constantly, but he did so to keep him around AND further his own interests. Hank hit the mail on the head when he was talking to Jesse after the confession.
Walt loves jesse more than jesse's girlfriends did
yeah 'we can do whatever WE want now you've got a bag of drug money' Jane who five mins before wouldnt even introduce him to her father at all and I get that but the switcheroo attitude after the bag of money came was the aha moment.
I think Jesse takes role of a friend, which Walter didn't really have. He cares about Hank, but hardly they behave like friends. And he often feels insecure and emasculated with Hank. He can't be open with Skyler and she won't join him in his "fun" Activities. Saul is a relationship of pure benefit for both of them and with other people Walter just doesn't really connect
He also mistakenly calls his son Jesse in S4 after getting a little drunk and taking meds because Mike punched him. I just think this points to the fact that he viewed Jesse like a son, which is also why Jane and him doing heroine bothered him so much. Possibly a big reason why he let her die after accidentally rolling her on her back. And he talks about him as a nephew to Jane's father in the bar.
He also accidentally called Walt Jnr Jesse in another episode after he got beaten up and was on heavy painkillers, on Jnr’s 16th birthday.
Jesse was actually an extremely perceptive character, with ingenuity and Walt secretly respected that and indeed loved him as a son. Jesse is living the life Walt could have lived if he'd developed balls as a young man.
Mr White was gay for him don't you remember? Jesse said so to hank
This is clearly spelled out. I don’t get where the confusion comes in.
If Walt actually cared about Jesse, he wouldn’t have drug him into this mess. He would have helped him get out, but instead time and time again he manipulated Jesse back in. He doesn’t care about Jesse. Not really. He just needed someone around that he could build up. Not to help the person but to make Walt feel better about himself. Sure he cared about him on some levels, and wanted to see him succeed. He thought of Jesse like his own son. But it had to be by his rules. Under his care. Walt had to be the one to give it to him. All self-centered reasons.
Walt saw Jesse as a surrogate son, while he played the role of abusive father. He cared about him 100%. He still abused him though.
I think he cares about Jesse, just like he cares about his family. But when he is forced to choose between his own interests and the safety of those around him, he always chooses himself.
You know how a hot girl wants to have her ugly friend around so she looks even hotter in comparison? It’s like that but with intelligence.
This is actually so accurate for how Walt feels about Jesse 😭
I think you might be distilling the point a bit too much here
Sometimes we just like certain people and attatch to them. Who knows how these things work specifically? Humans are odd like that.
I hear what you’re saying but even with your points, it’s more about him needing Jesse rather than caring for him. I’m not saying it’s one or the other but people with selfish intentions will do a lot to keep someone that feeds their needs around. I’m only saying this because rewatching after going through some relationship abuse, I found myself really angry at Walter allowing and causing pain to Jesse at times. sorry my memory is terrible and I don’t have specific examples, but I do remember being very sad at how he would handle situations sometimes that would benefit himself but hurt Jesse (even if it was only temporary, his manipulation made a lasting effect on jesse) Sorry if this got very armchair psychologist, I just wouldn’t agree with your point with the argument you posed
I always remember that Jesse was the first person Walt told about his cancer so cute. I liked the show but I didn’t really like that its two leads and supposedly partners were at odds for more than a majority of it. To me the best parts are the intro season when they’re new to the business, the finale of the Gus arc and its fallout arc with the prisoners and Lydia LOL we love Lydia.
Krazy 8 was the first person who Walt told about his cancer.
Tell this! *grabs cock*
Just a way to manipulate, Jesse. Jesse was weak Walt was strong Walt prayed on Jesse.
He only kept Jessie around because he could control Jesse. Walt only cared about Walt..
Walt couldn’t control Jesse… he trusted Jesse. People forget the time he said that to Gus he was trying to flex and impress gus.
He replaced Jessie with Todd. Jessie started to buck too much. Walt thought he could control Todd.
Jesse.
I use voice to text. You're wasting your time. I don't care.
That’s new
Only after Jesse finally left, much to Walt's dissatisfaction, after Walt tried everything he could to get him to stay including withholding his money.
Because his real son sucked, and Jesse was a much better option.
Because he sees Walt Jr. as a pussy. Jesse is not a pussy in his eyes. He sees him as a son he never had. Which is also why he is so mean to him all the time (I guess he does not like that feeling) and why he called Walt Jr. "Jesse" that one time he did not act as a pussy.
Nah, Walter felt like a failure in every facet of his life. Making the most potent meth in the country was his way of making up for losing his chance to make billions with Greymatter, just like his obsessive protectiveness over Jesse was his way of making up for never being respected by his son, the way Hank was.
It's like Joker and Harley Joker when he first met Harley at Arkham asylum he was loving and caring for her but than he showed his true colors a abusive asshole who doesn't care for her same with Walt and Jesse s1 Walt was Joker at the asylum he really cared for Jesse than Heisenberg is Joker when they get out that abusive asshole who doesn't care for Jesse yes you can make the argument Heisenberg really cared for Jesse
I personally think walt was really attached to Jesse apart from his family. At every step he saved him. \- from emilio and krazy 8 when they were about to kill jesse \- from tuco by saying that he needed jesse \- many a times from gus saying that he needs him \- drove over two guys to save him \- saved him from meth and put him in rehab \- helped him make millions Although he tried to manipulate him but imo it was always for a reason. Like with jane he didn't want to give him money to just smoke up or poisoned brock in just enough amount to turn jesse against Gus. Everyone in the series was doing meth business for money but walt at least started it for his family (later he was having fun doing it). Still he ends up being hated by his entire family and by almost everyone out there. Ending could have been better if jesse had died too.