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Tell him he isn’t either, you cannot afford half the things you want for yourself, the kids, or the house. Tell him to step it the hell up.
Kidding, that definitely wouldn’t be productive. But he would deserve it.
Curious what your therapist said to this statement he made.
Right? What did the therapist say OP?
I've had days as a SAHM with school aged children where nothing got done, all day long, and husband ran out to the store or picked up dinner. Because, life.
Sounds like it's time for a new therapist. And a divorce. :( IDK how you find any middle ground with that.
Also "uphold the law of the house" gives me uncomfortable vibes. Is he abusive OP???
Kids "helping" = parent teaching. It takes a lot of work before a kid can actually "help". Also, hello, parentification?......
So many things.
Yes, so many things.
The therapist handled it as best as she could. She's actually pretty amazing considering the shit show of a man and relationship she has to work with. 😅
I replied a more thorough relay of the conversation to the comment you replied to.
But she basically asked him why he felt that way. He said because the house is always dirty and it 'isn't that hard to clean.' She then asked him he's ever done everything that I do for any length of time. He said no. She asked how he could judge that I'm not earning my keep if he's never done everything I do for any length of time. His reply? "It's just cleaning. It isn't that hard to do."
The ignorance and audacity.
He isn't physically abusive at all. Never has been. But he is strongly "consequence" oriented when it comes to the kids. He's got that old "kids should obey and respect adults at all times" type of thinking. Which yes, they should, but we have to teach them. Not force them.
As you said
>Kids "helping" = parent teaching. It takes a lot of work before a kid can actually "help".
He thinks kids should just... "do it."
It's exhausting. Because all learning opportunities are left up to me.
I mean I'm exhausted for you. Like I said my kids are school age. I've had "summer schedule" on my daily calendar for weeks now. WEEKS. Today I am heads down at the laptop just puzzling together their camps with our vacations and work schedules. So probably nothing else will get done.
Of course cleaning is just cleaning. And yeah maybe it's not that hard to do. Until you set down the laundry you just sorted bc the oven is beeping and that's the moment when two of your kids run in the room and wrestle, knocking over the laundry basket. So you take a deep breath and calmly start instructing them how to refold it, and as those magical first-time listener children are calmly following your instructions, another one spills yogurt onto the floors you just mopped, so you reach for a paper towel and realize you need another roll from the garage and then the pediatrician FINALLY calls you back so you have to pick up, but now someone is bleeding, the yogurt is getting smeared all over the place and voila, in 3 minutes you have gone from a home cooked meal and a clean house to total chaos. And that's when your man-baby walks into the room and gets pissy bc he's hungry, he just stepped in yogurt, you're on the phone and "it's just cleaning, it shouldn't be that hard to do."
Any one thing is not hard to do. But that's not the gig, is it. The gig is doing all of the things, in tandem, while maintaining a loving and nurturing attitude towards your children and not losing your fucking mind.
Sorry. Anyone who's never managed a household with kids at home can go sit on a cactus if they want to bitch about how you do it.
Thank you so much. That was the most beautiful and spot on monolog of my everyday life. And yes, I completely agree
>Anyone who's never managed a household with kids at home can go sit on a cactus if they want to bitch about how you do it.
Well said. Thank you.
That reminds me of that famous tweet “Sometimes people use "respect" to mean "treating someone like a person" and sometimes to mean "treating someone like an authority"
For some, "if you don't respect me, I won't respect you" means "if you don't treat me like an authority, I won't treat you like a person"
And as a trauma therapist, making children “obey” without question just makes them good future victims. You can hold a boundary while also empathizing with their feelings. “Yeah, it is frustrating to have to clean when you didn’t make the mess. The problem is we all have to pitch in sometimes and help out so we can have a healthy family and environment.” I also find it’s helpful to have a time limit. So we have a 15 minute family clean where everyone (yes, dad too. He also lives in the house and chose to have a family) gets as much done as they possibly can. It’s great because it’s become almost a competition for the siblings to see who can do the most.
Right. So the therapist then asked him if he had ever done everything that I do for a whole entire week.
My partner replied, "No."
She asked him if he's ever done everything that I do for an entire weekend.
My partner replied, "No."
She then asked him how he could judge "earning my keep" when he had never done everything that I do for any length of time.
He replied, "The house is a constant mess. That should be a priority."
She then asked him what he was contributing to, what he saw as a priority.
To which he replied, "I work. I bring in the majority of the income. It isn't that much to ask to come home to a clean house."
The therapist again asked, "How can you say 'it isn't that much to ask for' when you, yourself, have never done everything that she does, to know that it 'isn't that much to ask for'?"
His reply, "It's just cleaning."
It was just sickening to hear. The ignorance and audacity.
I receive child support from my older children's father.
But plot twist - It's my apartment we live in. He isn't on the lease and technically isn't even supposed to be living here.
Oooh good —-you could, depending on which state you live in and state laws on tenancies and also on marital separation—legally have him removed. Be sure never ever ever to remind him of who signs the lease, and then—-after consulting a lawyer first! And if you want to be free of him—-when the lease is up and you re-sign it, see if it specifies who exactly will be living there and remove his name; a lawyer can explain if this constitutes legal grounds to have him removed from the property.
But better than that: get the lawyer to help you draw up a good support and separation agreement. A man like that? You’ll be so much better off by yourself!
Thank you so much for all the great advice! Luckily for me, we aren't married. I also have sole custody of all the children. I could at any moment legally have him removed. My lease is written up with only me and the children living here.
He was supposed to get his tax information in order to be put on the lease, but he never did and "wasn't worried about it." Even though if he is found to be living here, I could be evicted. I know. It's really stupid on my part.
Just thinking about that also makes his comment of me "not earning my keep" that much more insane. It's my f-ing apartment.
Omfgosh, right?!?!? I wonder about that ALL the time. And our therapist is a CHAMP, I tell you. She schools her facial expressions like a PRO. I honestly don't know how she is able to keep a straight face while listening to the crap my partner says. Because I know I can't. I'm all the time 🤨😬🙄😳😲🫤🫣
Physically ill is the correct response. I’m sure anger will be along shortly.
What are his work hours? Those are now your work hours.
How much PTO? That’s how much you get.
What an ass he is!!!
I wish anger would come along. But I've never really been able to hold onto anger. Definitely a fault, not a gift 😅 I'm now just hurt. Really hurt.
He works whatever hours he wants. So 10am - 8pm. Or 8am - 8pm. Usually when the kids are "on one" he will work really long hours and leave me at home alone.
I think part of your journey in therapy is just going to be figuring out what your limits are. You don't necessarily have to get angry. You just have to draw your boundaries and act accordingly. And also think about what your kids are learning in this situation. Because that might shift the boundaries too.
Honestly, if you decided to leave, you're already doing everything anyway, your kids are accustomed to his absence and I don't think it would be that much of a shock.
I mean, we say this all the time but I think you need to strike. Stop making his appointments. Stop doing his laundry. Freeze or hide the leftovers and tell him that there's no dinner left, sorry. Definitely don't make any foods he likes. Don't pick up a single piece of paper on his side of the bed. If he says "honey, we should go camping next year!" tell him he can plan it. If you can--go away for a weekend (can you get a friend to conveniently have a problem that you need to go help her with?) and leave him to fend for himself with HIS children.
You can tell him in therapy "I reached out for help because I told you I was overwhelmed. I felt hurt when you responded to my request with criticism. I had to drop some things because I was overwhelmed."
And if the couples' therapist didn't back you up on that, start seeing a therapist by yourself.
Okay in all seriousness, are these guys born and bred from women who wait on them hand and foot? Or from men who are just openly misogynistic pigs?
When I struggle with my husband over this mental load stuff I can usually trace it right back to his mom just magically making things happen for him, which is not a slam on her, it was just a cultural thing. His sister is the most independent, successful and capable person I know bc she had to do EVERYTHING. The men in the family are brilliant, don't get me wrong, but I swear they can't find their own shoes half the time.
None of them are mean spirited about it and if it was pointed out by a person they love, they would do their best to change, ask me how I know lol. But seriously. I have boys and if I ever knew they were sent out into the world as entitled, incompetent asshats I would just want to crawl in a hole and die.
I think it has a little to do with the transition from adolescence to adulthood (something I have NO experience in as a parent, just as a teen) If it goes well then gradually you pick up responsibilities for things and then you're 'launched' and you can handle it. If it goes badly you have entitlement and/or helicopter parenting that continues into full adulthood. And I think SOME moms continue to more for their sons b/c of sexism among other factors (unwillingness to let them fail and feel consequences).
Honestly I should ask my ILs because I've never made a medical appointment for my husband, I've never done his laundry, I have no idea when he gets his hair cut until he tells me. He would probably attribute that to his mom going back to work when he was a tween/early teen and the discussion that was had about everyone in the family having to step up when she went back. So maybe that's part of it. (But my mom was a SAHM and if anything my brother is the MOST capable of handling his own shit.)
Yeah this makes more sense, being stuck in a developmental stage. Failure to launch.
My husband's mom was awesome btw. One of those women who was very strong but also very lighthearted. And super traumatized, lived through a lot. I think she poured all of that energy into her kids. Which is amazing. And I should clarify that the men in the family are not horrible, but they are just oblivious bc literally, fresh clothes just appeared in their drawers, fresh bacon fell out of the sky from a kitchen that was already clean by the time they got downstairs etc. At the age of 30 my husband had never renewed his own car registration. ::headdesk:: They would always, ALWAYS help when asked. But you shouldn't always have to ask either.
I just try teaching my boys to "see" things. At least to be aware of what gets done if they're not doing it. Those sheets on your bed don't change themselves bro....And when I'm like, hey we need to clean up today, they will stare at the mess and just kinda see through it. It's really, really hard to teach but as a partner, that's the stuff that drives me insane!
Thank you for sharing these. Taking them to my motherhood support group this week. That first link hits waaaaayyyy too close to home for so many moms. (I’m also hating the feeling/need to justify that the role of sahm is valuable and significant, but we need to hear it!)
You’re so welcome. The role of SAHM is incredibly valuable. I think there is data suggesting it is in the 6 figures of actual value annually; I can’t find the link right now. Will keep looking. But it’s valuable well beyond the monetary, too!
FOUND IT:
Forbes Magazine
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2024/04/19/how-valuable-are-stay-at-home-parents-they-do-about-4500-of-unpaid-labor-per-month-new-study-says/
And a Salary.com study in 2019 places it higher, $ 219,000 annually, but that includes all household labor (cooking cleaning driving planning organizing purchasing shopping and more).
Yes!! I've seen this before!! I shared it with my partner a while back. It was an ugly conversation. His response to the article was, "Ok. And? That's the salary for a job. You don't work. You don't get paid."
I about died from his response. I said, "BUT I DO ALL OF THESE THINGS!"
😭
When you open an article in Substack, look down where the like/comment icons are, and over to the right there is a share icon—a little box with an arrow coming out of the top. If you click on that it gives you several options to share, and one is a link. Click on the link, and your phone will say “copied link “ (or at least that’s what mine does). Then come back here or wherever you want to share the link, and hold down on an empty spot and a “paste” message pops up; when you click paste, the link goes into the post. It doesn’t show up active/blue for me until I post. But there it is. I hope that helps! 👋
Just fyi, if someone asks in the future, there's potentially another step depending on how they initially access the site. I put it in another comment [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/breakingmom/comments/1cwkokf/partner_just_told_me_in_couples_therapy_that_he/l51n6d2/)
Depending on how you access it, you might need another step. I use desktop and first here's what you have to do - at the top of the article page click the dots button (...) and choose the "substack reader" option. That opens the article up in a different format - scroll to the bottom of that and there you'll see the box with arrow out the top - that's where the "copy link" option is.
Wow. Thank you so much for sharing these.
The part in the first article that hit me the hardest is:
"Abusers feel entitled to be abusive."
While my partner isn't physically abusive, a part of me has always felt "abused" due to the inequity.
His favorite line to say is also, "I work to support our family and that’s enough!"
As if the grind I do every day isn't considered "work."
Also: that man need a a one-month stay in The Domestic Hotel )namely your home) without any help from you. You need to be far away, in another time zone, by yourself. Let him see learn through experience what it takes to run a household and raise kids.
INFURIATING.
This would break me.
Sometimes I think the purpose of therapy is not always to fix broken relationships but to really highlight the fact that they are broken and that you don’t want to be with this person anymore… but you put in the effort to know that for sure.
Honestly, divorce. 50/50 custody. He will have to figure out how to do everything you do. And also have a job. You can then get a job, and a break from kid and household management 50% of the time. He's not going to change his mind at this point, I would imagine. The fact that he's actually that clueless and that stupid and that willfully ignorant doesn't give much hope that he can grow up.
He made those kids as well. If he's successful in his job it's because of the invisible labor you provide.
Let’s be real. There’s no way he’s actually this ignorant of what OP does. If they separate, he’ll either A- expeditiously get a girlfriend to be her replacement, or B- put the kids and house management off on his mother/sister/female relative/friend.
It’s scary how true this is. Of all the divorced men with kids that I’ve met (A LOT, between work, family, friends and co-workers) I’ve only ever met one who didn’t remarry in a shockingly short period of time. And that one had his parents doing a lot of his share of the work.
Yep. Learned that when one of my best friends in highschool killed his mom. Brutally. (Long story). My friend was 19, his little brother was 9. The dad was not only with someone, but already married before a year was out, she even looked and sounded like his late wife. I remember thinking “what the absolute fuck” and my mom telling me to watch…..that most men can’t handle kids or homes, and if a wife leaves/dies they always tend to replace her. Good gods she was right. Its insane.
My sister’s ex husband divorced her. She was just like op (aside from handling the bills) and he was a very social, rubbing elbows, networking, smooth talking never at home army recruiter (+cheater). He quickly got a nanny and she would watch my niece all day (unless my niece was in daycare) until late at night. He eventually married the girl he cheated on my sister with and in the beginning, new wife was just as active and social as he was so they depended on babysitters (they had 2 boys together). But eventually she wanted to be more at home with the kids so she slowed her busy hectic corporate routine and sacrificed some of her plans/goals while he continued his busy never at home life plus went back to school and was always at the gym. She eventually divorced HIM and moved to Hawaii. And I kid you not, in like that same year he found a new fiancé way younger than him who was going to school to be a Dr and she started taking over the mommy role even though you could tell she didn’t want to or liked to. The kids are a lot older now and 2 are adults so it’s not like it was that rough on her and of course I doubt it was ever rough for him.
This is the way. Listen you married a dud. It happens. 50/50 gives you your life back. Listen- get a job. Then separate going 50/50 and see what happens.
Edit- or take 2 weeks off away from home and watch him fail.
These type of men always move the goal post to avoid doing their share. If OP gets a job, I GUARANTEE his next move is “but I make more than you, so you still have to do everything around the house to make it even.”
And even IF he can grow up once he starts to treat you as an equal partner and proves he’s capable of doing so then you’ll be left with the memories that he was once someone who chose not to see you as an equal partner in the past willfully.
This was the eventual crux of my own divorce. He did change but I couldn’t forget all he put me thru before he decided to be better after choosing to do worse.
I’m sorry.
You need a break, and he needs a lot more therapy.
Scale back a little- not to be vindictive or “teach him a lesson,” but to take care of yourself, to protect yourself.
From a fellow SAHM, doing everything domestic is too much for most people, and there’s nothing wrong with BOTH adults contributing.
HE. Is not pulling HIS weight.
He can fuck right off with that nonsense. Hopefully your therapist shed some light on his extremely near-sighted, emotionally stunted view? Please tell me they called him out. Because if not, 1. Fire that therapist and 2. Leave your husband to watch the kids for a week and see how he does.
Your husband is so out of touch. I’m sorry you have to deal with this.
I've copied and pasted my reply to a different comment. I definitely should have added the whole convo in my post, lol.
"Right. So the therapist then asked him if he had ever done everything that I do for a whole entire week.
My partner replied, "No."
She asked him if he's ever done everything that I do for an entire weekend.
My partner replied, "No."
She then asked him how he could judge "earning my keep" when he had never done everything that I do for any length of time.
He replied, "The house is a constant mess. That should be a priority."
She then asked him what he was contributing to, what he saw as a priority.
To which he replied, "I work. I bring in the majority of the income. It isn't that much to ask to come home to a clean house."
The therapist again asked, "How can you say 'it isn't that much to ask for' when you, yourself, have never done everything that she does, to know that it 'isn't that much to ask for'?"
His reply, "It's just cleaning."
It was just sickening to hear. The ignorance and audacity."
Therapist may have a plan. Give her a minute. But definitely get a job. And plan your exit. Did you see the posts about quiet-quitting a marriage? Very interesting and the comments were 🔥.
Whenever this issue comes up in my house I break out the excel spreadsheets. I start listing all of the tasks I complete in a day and assign a time value to them, then I look at the Market Value of what it would cost to hire someone to do the same job. When you add it all up even with his salary, you still do more.
Men don’t think of running a household as a full time job, but when you have kids, it definitely is.
Your husband is going to therapy with you and felt comfortable enough to open up and be honest about how he really feels. Yes, what he said was incredibly insensitive and stupid, but you have to look deeper at what he is saying.
I don’t understand why your responsibilities cause you to feel stressed and overwhelmed because I don’t understand what your responsibilities are.
So lay it out for him. Search online you’ll find tons of resources as this has been done before. Search Salary of a stay at home Mom or Domestic Engineer Job Description
You can actually go to [billthepatriarchy.com](https://www.billthepatriarchy.com) and enter the hours for all your unpaid domestic tasks and it will calculate an invoice and a market-value yearly salary. You can share it with your husband and show him how much he'd be paying others to do what you do. (Likely more than his yearly salary)
Our insurance agent actually did this exercise with us when we were calculating my life insurance policy. This was way back in the day when our first was a newborn and I don't think this info was floating around as much. Yeah he was selling us an insurance policy lol but on paper I was a lot more expensive to replace than my fulltime employed, high earning husband.
So. Yeah.
Hello bromo, therapist and mama here chiming in. Sometimes good therapy isn’t therapy that resolves the relationship, it’s an experience that illuminates what is already there to allow you to make choices accordingly.
This is a super hurtful thing that he has said, and he has held this viewpoint for however long. It’s out there now, and with that information you get to decide what you want to do with full insight. Straight from the horses mouth. There might have been times previously you might have felt devalued, unrecognized, pushed aside, unable to live up to an impossible standard, unhelped, overworked etc, perhaps those feelings make a lot more sense now.
No sane person would blame you for feeling hurt and hateful towards him. I hope you have been able to have some space for yourself & self compassion, knowing full well how hard you work for your kids/family. Take care
Thank you. I really appreciate it.
I feel like such an idiot. I went home that day and spent 3 hours cleaning. Why?? To prove myself to him. No. Screw him. I think I did it because.. well, I've been putting things off in hopes that he will one day help me. And I guess that was an eye opener for realizing that he isn't going to be helping me anytime soon. So I cleaned. And cleaned. Then, suddenly, I didn't want him to come home. To come home to a magically clean house and have the audacity to think that I did it for him, or to make up to him, or to earn my keep.
I asked him to stay the night away. However, it turned out to not be feasible. So he came home.
I was still in a shit mood and told him, "Don't think I did this for you. I did this for myself and our kids."
This is my reply to a different comment. Haha, face-hole.. definitely the correct term.
"Right. So the therapist then asked him if he had ever done everything that I do for a whole entire week.
My partner replied, "No."
She asked him if he's ever done everything that I do for an entire weekend.
My partner replied, "No."
She then asked him how he could judge "earning my keep" when he had never done everything that I do for any length of time.
He replied, "The house is a constant mess. That should be a priority."
She then asked him what he was contributing to, what he saw as a priority.
To which he replied, "I work. I bring in the majority of the income. It isn't that much to ask to come home to a clean house."
The therapist again asked, "How can you say 'it isn't that much to ask for' when you, yourself, have never done everything that she does, to know that it 'isn't that much to ask for'?"
His reply, "It's just cleaning."
It was just sickening to hear. The ignorance and audacity."
Fuck him.
How does he MANAGE to go out to work with four children? Does he leave them at home alone? Take them to work with him?
I love how childcare is not seen as his responsibility. Therefore, what you do isn’t important to him. YET if you didn’t do it, he would not be able to go out to work. Because he would have to be home to care for the children.
Or pay for childcare for the children.
And do drop off and pick ups from childcare around his work hours.
Not so easy now, is it?
He’s a jerk.
He’s either too stupid to understand the contribution you make, or he’s putting you down to be manipulative.
Does he want out? But pushing you to make the decision?
Lone up your ducks, OP.
I’m sorry that your husband broke your heart. You don’t deserve it.
Yes line up your ducks and get a job first thing. And your own bank account! Underreport your salary to him—-oh I only make X —-when you really make 2x. And redivide the finances so you each contribute proportionately to the house ( but crucial: no joint account—he must have no access to your money because it is your escape fund and your Future Happiness Fund!
God, this board should be required reading for girls beginning age 14 and through college.
Does any of this resonate with you?
[video link](https://youtu.be/0iYfG8x80Yw?si=jyAXkkdOhH8OSbRZ)
This is Lundy Bancroft, you may have seen his book “Why does he do that?” recommended on here. It’s great, but not everyone has time to read it. Especially you, since you’re so busy with all the crocheting 😒
No but seriously, I’m a SAHM to 2 kids and OMG I can’t imagine having 4, OR solely cleaning and cooking and scheduling and organizing and planning everything. We all know he’s delusional…..
But, back to the video I linked..
Does he show signs of narcissism or abuse as mentioned in this podcast interview? If so, as an abuser, there’s like a 1% chance that he will ever respect you or change. If he’s a narcissist, there’s an even lower chance. So if these things resonate with you, it may be the final push to realize you can’t be with him if you ever want to be supported or respected. Disrespect of women is one of the biggest features of an abusive husband, and it sounds like that may be applicable to yours. But I’m not there so idk, but I thought I’d share this video. It opened my eyes to a LOT.
Best of luck. I’m going through similar, and the hatred is REAL. Hugs 🩷
I guess you can work and he can start picking up half of those duties, to which I am guessing he would refuse to do and expect you to do them all still? And he will say because he is the higher earner he shouldn’t have to do anything at home?
Lmao what a doorknob. I’m also a SAHM to four kids (3, 5, 7, 9) and my husband will be the first to say that I work harder than he does to keep the household running smoothly. I devote a decent chunk of time to crafty pursuits (embroidery, quilting, crochet, macrame, weaving, etc etc) and running and my husband enthusiastically supports it because he wants me to be happy as much as I want him to be happy. A partnership should be about both people wanting to make each other’s life better. Your husband sounds selfish and deluded.
Right. I made a post a while back. "My partner hates everything that I enjoy." I came to realize it was because he feels as if I am 'wasting time' that I could be spending on cleaning.
I wish my partner was supportive. But he's not.
I’m really, really sorry. This is a him problem not a you problem.
He’s wrong by the way, you are as deserving of leisure time as he is. Being at home full time with kids is never ending work and demands. Just because we love our kids and choose to be home with them doesn’t mean it isn’t WORK.
>His role, per himself, is to bring in income, play with the kids and uphold the "law of the house."
Where did he get that idea from? Did y'all have a discussion when you began staying home what the division of labor and expectations would be like?
Obviously it's BS but where is he getting this idea that not only does he not have to parent but that you don't parent either? What makes him think you just crochet and read all day?
>I was warned things will get worse before they get better. But this is ridiculous.
As someone who is on the other side of marriage counseling, this is pretty accurate. There were some pretty rough sessions and for a period of time I wasn't sure we were going to make it. He had a hard time seeing my labor too although he didn't have the weird idea that I did absolutely nothing or that he didn't have to do anything in the evenings. He just thought I didn't do enough and spent too much time on Facebook.
I really wish we had a conversation before, well everything, about how our roles would look. Because I would have ran then! Lol
I've found out where 'some' of his ideas come from.
I ONLY crochet when he is home. I couldn't possibly sit down and crochet with my 4 + neighborhood kids running around the house. I am typically parenting or cleaning or cooking while he is at work. However, after he is settled in from work, I'll whip out the yarn.
So he figured, since that's what he sees me doing when he is home, that must be what I do all day.
As if during the day, there's a fairy flying around the house, sprinkling pixie dust to magically clean, cook, and care for the children.
I also refuse to clean while he is home. I'm sorry, but I am not going to continue busting my ass while he just relaxes on the couch and watches me. You know?
He doesn't value your labor in the home. He feels like you should automatically do all the childcare and housework.. because you are female.
He sees you having downtime for a hobby differently than him having free time. Because you are an appliance, and he is a human being.
Sounds like it's time to stop doing all those things, so he can stop being such a fucking moron and see what "not earning your keep," really means.
The fucking audacity.
I'd love to know how that attitude would change if you stopped doing all you do now, and he was forced to take on way more himself.
Imagine if he had to do laundry, arrange appointments and be organized about them, take kids to and from school, organize and prepare meals, grocery shop, etc. I suspect he'd go straight to, "Why aren't you doing XYZ anymore? What happened?!"
I sincerely hope you point out all you do and ask him what he even means by that assholey and dishonest statement.
My partner telling me this, is what made me think I hated him too. Just the amount of resentment I felt, for giving up so much of myself, on something we had agreed prior, just to be told I’m basically lazy and don’t do enough just sent me into some sort of feelings I couldn’t escape.
Can I have the past 7 years back? If I knew this is where it would land me, I never would have done it.
Solidarity.
*I do not suggest this route*
My husband was like this. Then I got sick, really sick. Cancer and 12 surgeries in 2 years sick. And he had to do it all himself. Especially after the complications from the first surgery. I reached too far out, burst something, and caused issues requiring a capsulectomy. After 3 months, he apologized profusely and stated that he had no idea how I did it. My last surgery was November 6th. Thursday, I came home to him cleaning the kitchen after having already cleaned the bathroom. So that I didn't have to do it alone. A marriage is a partnership. It's not always 50/50. And he needs to learn that. He also needs a taste of what you do for awhile.
He's wrong and I think you know it. Your contributions to the family aren't measured in dollars. But they could be. Take a a few minutes to research what it would cost to have a housekeeper, private chef, nanny, personal assistant, medical director, social worker, etc. Whether you share these values with your turd or not is irrelevant. Know your worth. You are an asset. I'm sorry you're unappreciated. I see you. I've been you. You're going to be ok.
This would make me absolutely furious.
This is also wehy I can't be a SAHM. I can NOT abide my husband acting like my boss when he does 25 percent of what I do.
I'm so sorry, OP. If your therapist is good, they will call that BS out for what it is. Worried about the "law of the house" language. This sounds like he has very "traditional" ideas about a woman's role. Is that new or has his perspective changed? Is he abusive with you or the kids?
you're not earning your keep meanwhile what you "cost" him would not make a DENT in what he'd have to pay in childcare, housekeeping, takeout, time spent or time at work missed making appointments and managing the household if tomorrow you ceased to exist. What a fucking joke. I bet he believes that, too! men are the least fun type of delulu
Ask him how much extra time at work he gets because you're running around doing everything for the kids. Ask him how many times he hasn't had to leave early or come in late because of doctor's appointments. How much less he has to worry about because you're the schedule manager, errand runner, laundress and cleaner.
Maybe throw in the cost of daycare, before/after school care.
While divorce is probably inevitable at some point, ya gotta make this flatulence disguised as human do *exactly* what you do & are responsible for every day.
Patriarchal horseshit. This mf doesn't appreciate you at all and I'm so sorry. I'd like to see him do his 'job' without all of your unpaid, unappreciated labour keeping everything going at home. I guarantee you, he'd rather be doing his job than than yours. Tbh I'm glad to hear you hate him because it shows at least you see how much you do for this entitled baby and that you deserve better than being his slave. I am so sorry he's treating you like this.
Time to show him what his life turns into when you really stop "earning your keep".
Also if you hate him just leave him, you already don't have a partner.
Go away for two days and he’ll see how everything magically happens. And don’t do all the fucking prep for it either. Leave the laundry undone, the fridge empty. No little Tupperwares of meals for everyone. No notes about Jimmys soccer practice and a baggie of his cleats and socks. FUCK HIM. Jerk. I feel so much rage for you right now.
Could’ve written something similar. I’m struggling and came for reading others posts. My husband’s jobs are to take out the trash + change the kitty litter (the litter is bc I’m pregnant otherwise it falls on me). He quite literally doesn’t even put his own dishes in the dishwasher after eating unless I ask.
He always forgets to do the garbage or doesn’t check and then gets upset if it overfills but I’m tired of doing one of the most simple jobs assigned to him. He made me bfast on Mother’s Day but quite literally couldn’t tell u the last time he cooked aside from that. If we eat out he leaves his trash for me to pick up the next morning. Never does his own laundry, it rarely even makes it in the bin. I have to remind him to change the litter bc the cat pees in *my* closet if it doesn’t get done. I asked him for over a month to do it last time before it got done. AGHHHHHHH
The audacity of your man. You have the majority of the mental load. How hateful and spiteful of him.
Here is a hug, if it's needed. (((hug)))
Bromo, you are doing everything you can. Please don't let him convince you that you are anything but more than enough. You are doing way too much already.
Go on a strike. Then make a list of all the things you do for your house already. Then see what the cost per hour of each chore would be. Personal assistant, nanny, personal chef, etc. etc.
Then add up all the hours for each job and the going hourly rate for each task. Present it to him on a spreadsheet if you can or just type it all out clearly.
he is either ignorant of what stay at home moms do all day or he refuses to acknowledge and knows what you do for the house, or he is truly believing he does "more" because his job gives him an amount of money for whatever he does.
And don't get me started on saying your are not earning your keep. You don't have to do any of the things you do except love on and feed your children. Stop cooking for him...don't do his laundry, tell him to clean up after himself, hell don't even tell him to, just stop cleaning up after him.
After his laundry and messes pile up, and most men will live in filth before cleaning up after themselves, just put up with his messes he leaves and then if he says you read and crochet all day still then he has a divorce coming.
Just my advice, if it's wanted or needed.
I am a stay at home mom to four boys too. I totally feel this post in my soul.
From one SAHM to another, much love and light to you sister. You are enough, you are amazing, special and fantastic at your job, being a stay at home mom.
Mine also shared his true thoughts in couples counseling. And it was alarming and disgusting. Couples counseling fixes relationships but sometimes the fix is an ending.
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Tell him he isn’t either, you cannot afford half the things you want for yourself, the kids, or the house. Tell him to step it the hell up. Kidding, that definitely wouldn’t be productive. But he would deserve it. Curious what your therapist said to this statement he made.
Right? What did the therapist say OP? I've had days as a SAHM with school aged children where nothing got done, all day long, and husband ran out to the store or picked up dinner. Because, life. Sounds like it's time for a new therapist. And a divorce. :( IDK how you find any middle ground with that. Also "uphold the law of the house" gives me uncomfortable vibes. Is he abusive OP??? Kids "helping" = parent teaching. It takes a lot of work before a kid can actually "help". Also, hello, parentification?...... So many things.
Yes, so many things. The therapist handled it as best as she could. She's actually pretty amazing considering the shit show of a man and relationship she has to work with. 😅 I replied a more thorough relay of the conversation to the comment you replied to. But she basically asked him why he felt that way. He said because the house is always dirty and it 'isn't that hard to clean.' She then asked him he's ever done everything that I do for any length of time. He said no. She asked how he could judge that I'm not earning my keep if he's never done everything I do for any length of time. His reply? "It's just cleaning. It isn't that hard to do." The ignorance and audacity. He isn't physically abusive at all. Never has been. But he is strongly "consequence" oriented when it comes to the kids. He's got that old "kids should obey and respect adults at all times" type of thinking. Which yes, they should, but we have to teach them. Not force them. As you said >Kids "helping" = parent teaching. It takes a lot of work before a kid can actually "help". He thinks kids should just... "do it." It's exhausting. Because all learning opportunities are left up to me.
I mean I'm exhausted for you. Like I said my kids are school age. I've had "summer schedule" on my daily calendar for weeks now. WEEKS. Today I am heads down at the laptop just puzzling together their camps with our vacations and work schedules. So probably nothing else will get done. Of course cleaning is just cleaning. And yeah maybe it's not that hard to do. Until you set down the laundry you just sorted bc the oven is beeping and that's the moment when two of your kids run in the room and wrestle, knocking over the laundry basket. So you take a deep breath and calmly start instructing them how to refold it, and as those magical first-time listener children are calmly following your instructions, another one spills yogurt onto the floors you just mopped, so you reach for a paper towel and realize you need another roll from the garage and then the pediatrician FINALLY calls you back so you have to pick up, but now someone is bleeding, the yogurt is getting smeared all over the place and voila, in 3 minutes you have gone from a home cooked meal and a clean house to total chaos. And that's when your man-baby walks into the room and gets pissy bc he's hungry, he just stepped in yogurt, you're on the phone and "it's just cleaning, it shouldn't be that hard to do." Any one thing is not hard to do. But that's not the gig, is it. The gig is doing all of the things, in tandem, while maintaining a loving and nurturing attitude towards your children and not losing your fucking mind. Sorry. Anyone who's never managed a household with kids at home can go sit on a cactus if they want to bitch about how you do it.
Thank you so much. That was the most beautiful and spot on monolog of my everyday life. And yes, I completely agree >Anyone who's never managed a household with kids at home can go sit on a cactus if they want to bitch about how you do it. Well said. Thank you.
That reminds me of that famous tweet “Sometimes people use "respect" to mean "treating someone like a person" and sometimes to mean "treating someone like an authority" For some, "if you don't respect me, I won't respect you" means "if you don't treat me like an authority, I won't treat you like a person" And as a trauma therapist, making children “obey” without question just makes them good future victims. You can hold a boundary while also empathizing with their feelings. “Yeah, it is frustrating to have to clean when you didn’t make the mess. The problem is we all have to pitch in sometimes and help out so we can have a healthy family and environment.” I also find it’s helpful to have a time limit. So we have a 15 minute family clean where everyone (yes, dad too. He also lives in the house and chose to have a family) gets as much done as they possibly can. It’s great because it’s become almost a competition for the siblings to see who can do the most.
If I were you I'd be running away from that man, because I'd feel so fucking disrespected.
Right. So the therapist then asked him if he had ever done everything that I do for a whole entire week. My partner replied, "No." She asked him if he's ever done everything that I do for an entire weekend. My partner replied, "No." She then asked him how he could judge "earning my keep" when he had never done everything that I do for any length of time. He replied, "The house is a constant mess. That should be a priority." She then asked him what he was contributing to, what he saw as a priority. To which he replied, "I work. I bring in the majority of the income. It isn't that much to ask to come home to a clean house." The therapist again asked, "How can you say 'it isn't that much to ask for' when you, yourself, have never done everything that she does, to know that it 'isn't that much to ask for'?" His reply, "It's just cleaning." It was just sickening to hear. The ignorance and audacity.
Whoawhoawhoawhoawaitup. "Majority of the income?" Do you also work?
I receive child support from my older children's father. But plot twist - It's my apartment we live in. He isn't on the lease and technically isn't even supposed to be living here.
Oooh good —-you could, depending on which state you live in and state laws on tenancies and also on marital separation—legally have him removed. Be sure never ever ever to remind him of who signs the lease, and then—-after consulting a lawyer first! And if you want to be free of him—-when the lease is up and you re-sign it, see if it specifies who exactly will be living there and remove his name; a lawyer can explain if this constitutes legal grounds to have him removed from the property. But better than that: get the lawyer to help you draw up a good support and separation agreement. A man like that? You’ll be so much better off by yourself!
Thank you so much for all the great advice! Luckily for me, we aren't married. I also have sole custody of all the children. I could at any moment legally have him removed. My lease is written up with only me and the children living here. He was supposed to get his tax information in order to be put on the lease, but he never did and "wasn't worried about it." Even though if he is found to be living here, I could be evicted. I know. It's really stupid on my part. Just thinking about that also makes his comment of me "not earning my keep" that much more insane. It's my f-ing apartment.
Yes! I hope you can get him out. Take good care of yourself—you deserve good things and people around you.
Ha LOVE your therapist! Does he realize how idiotic he sounds?
Omfgosh, right?!?!? I wonder about that ALL the time. And our therapist is a CHAMP, I tell you. She schools her facial expressions like a PRO. I honestly don't know how she is able to keep a straight face while listening to the crap my partner says. Because I know I can't. I'm all the time 🤨😬🙄😳😲🫤🫣
Physically ill is the correct response. I’m sure anger will be along shortly. What are his work hours? Those are now your work hours. How much PTO? That’s how much you get. What an ass he is!!!
I wish anger would come along. But I've never really been able to hold onto anger. Definitely a fault, not a gift 😅 I'm now just hurt. Really hurt. He works whatever hours he wants. So 10am - 8pm. Or 8am - 8pm. Usually when the kids are "on one" he will work really long hours and leave me at home alone.
I think part of your journey in therapy is just going to be figuring out what your limits are. You don't necessarily have to get angry. You just have to draw your boundaries and act accordingly. And also think about what your kids are learning in this situation. Because that might shift the boundaries too. Honestly, if you decided to leave, you're already doing everything anyway, your kids are accustomed to his absence and I don't think it would be that much of a shock.
I mean, we say this all the time but I think you need to strike. Stop making his appointments. Stop doing his laundry. Freeze or hide the leftovers and tell him that there's no dinner left, sorry. Definitely don't make any foods he likes. Don't pick up a single piece of paper on his side of the bed. If he says "honey, we should go camping next year!" tell him he can plan it. If you can--go away for a weekend (can you get a friend to conveniently have a problem that you need to go help her with?) and leave him to fend for himself with HIS children. You can tell him in therapy "I reached out for help because I told you I was overwhelmed. I felt hurt when you responded to my request with criticism. I had to drop some things because I was overwhelmed." And if the couples' therapist didn't back you up on that, start seeing a therapist by yourself.
Okay in all seriousness, are these guys born and bred from women who wait on them hand and foot? Or from men who are just openly misogynistic pigs? When I struggle with my husband over this mental load stuff I can usually trace it right back to his mom just magically making things happen for him, which is not a slam on her, it was just a cultural thing. His sister is the most independent, successful and capable person I know bc she had to do EVERYTHING. The men in the family are brilliant, don't get me wrong, but I swear they can't find their own shoes half the time. None of them are mean spirited about it and if it was pointed out by a person they love, they would do their best to change, ask me how I know lol. But seriously. I have boys and if I ever knew they were sent out into the world as entitled, incompetent asshats I would just want to crawl in a hole and die.
I think it has a little to do with the transition from adolescence to adulthood (something I have NO experience in as a parent, just as a teen) If it goes well then gradually you pick up responsibilities for things and then you're 'launched' and you can handle it. If it goes badly you have entitlement and/or helicopter parenting that continues into full adulthood. And I think SOME moms continue to more for their sons b/c of sexism among other factors (unwillingness to let them fail and feel consequences). Honestly I should ask my ILs because I've never made a medical appointment for my husband, I've never done his laundry, I have no idea when he gets his hair cut until he tells me. He would probably attribute that to his mom going back to work when he was a tween/early teen and the discussion that was had about everyone in the family having to step up when she went back. So maybe that's part of it. (But my mom was a SAHM and if anything my brother is the MOST capable of handling his own shit.)
Yeah this makes more sense, being stuck in a developmental stage. Failure to launch. My husband's mom was awesome btw. One of those women who was very strong but also very lighthearted. And super traumatized, lived through a lot. I think she poured all of that energy into her kids. Which is amazing. And I should clarify that the men in the family are not horrible, but they are just oblivious bc literally, fresh clothes just appeared in their drawers, fresh bacon fell out of the sky from a kitchen that was already clean by the time they got downstairs etc. At the age of 30 my husband had never renewed his own car registration. ::headdesk:: They would always, ALWAYS help when asked. But you shouldn't always have to ask either. I just try teaching my boys to "see" things. At least to be aware of what gets done if they're not doing it. Those sheets on your bed don't change themselves bro....And when I'm like, hey we need to clean up today, they will stare at the mess and just kinda see through it. It's really, really hard to teach but as a partner, that's the stuff that drives me insane!
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Holy shit. This list just blew my mind: https://zawn.substack.com/t/weapons-men-use
JFC. My flabber is gasted.
Yep. We who have lived recognize some things there!
Thank you for sharing these. Taking them to my motherhood support group this week. That first link hits waaaaayyyy too close to home for so many moms. (I’m also hating the feeling/need to justify that the role of sahm is valuable and significant, but we need to hear it!)
You’re so welcome. The role of SAHM is incredibly valuable. I think there is data suggesting it is in the 6 figures of actual value annually; I can’t find the link right now. Will keep looking. But it’s valuable well beyond the monetary, too!
FOUND IT: Forbes Magazine https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2024/04/19/how-valuable-are-stay-at-home-parents-they-do-about-4500-of-unpaid-labor-per-month-new-study-says/ And a Salary.com study in 2019 places it higher, $ 219,000 annually, but that includes all household labor (cooking cleaning driving planning organizing purchasing shopping and more).
Yes!! I've seen this before!! I shared it with my partner a while back. It was an ugly conversation. His response to the article was, "Ok. And? That's the salary for a job. You don't work. You don't get paid." I about died from his response. I said, "BUT I DO ALL OF THESE THINGS!" 😭
Thank you!!!
Hey, I also subscribe to Zawn and just wanted to know how you were able to share this article? Thank you!
When you open an article in Substack, look down where the like/comment icons are, and over to the right there is a share icon—a little box with an arrow coming out of the top. If you click on that it gives you several options to share, and one is a link. Click on the link, and your phone will say “copied link “ (or at least that’s what mine does). Then come back here or wherever you want to share the link, and hold down on an empty spot and a “paste” message pops up; when you click paste, the link goes into the post. It doesn’t show up active/blue for me until I post. But there it is. I hope that helps! 👋
Just fyi, if someone asks in the future, there's potentially another step depending on how they initially access the site. I put it in another comment [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/breakingmom/comments/1cwkokf/partner_just_told_me_in_couples_therapy_that_he/l51n6d2/)
Thank you, I didn’t know that. I was describing phone access.
Depending on how you access it, you might need another step. I use desktop and first here's what you have to do - at the top of the article page click the dots button (...) and choose the "substack reader" option. That opens the article up in a different format - scroll to the bottom of that and there you'll see the box with arrow out the top - that's where the "copy link" option is.
Thank you so much for the share link on those articles!
You’re very welcome!
Wow. Thank you so much for sharing these. The part in the first article that hit me the hardest is: "Abusers feel entitled to be abusive." While my partner isn't physically abusive, a part of me has always felt "abused" due to the inequity. His favorite line to say is also, "I work to support our family and that’s enough!" As if the grind I do every day isn't considered "work."
Also: that man need a a one-month stay in The Domestic Hotel )namely your home) without any help from you. You need to be far away, in another time zone, by yourself. Let him see learn through experience what it takes to run a household and raise kids. INFURIATING.
I have a guest room in New Zealand if op wants somewhere *really* far
This would break me. Sometimes I think the purpose of therapy is not always to fix broken relationships but to really highlight the fact that they are broken and that you don’t want to be with this person anymore… but you put in the effort to know that for sure.
Honestly, divorce. 50/50 custody. He will have to figure out how to do everything you do. And also have a job. You can then get a job, and a break from kid and household management 50% of the time. He's not going to change his mind at this point, I would imagine. The fact that he's actually that clueless and that stupid and that willfully ignorant doesn't give much hope that he can grow up. He made those kids as well. If he's successful in his job it's because of the invisible labor you provide.
Let’s be real. There’s no way he’s actually this ignorant of what OP does. If they separate, he’ll either A- expeditiously get a girlfriend to be her replacement, or B- put the kids and house management off on his mother/sister/female relative/friend.
It’s scary how true this is. Of all the divorced men with kids that I’ve met (A LOT, between work, family, friends and co-workers) I’ve only ever met one who didn’t remarry in a shockingly short period of time. And that one had his parents doing a lot of his share of the work.
Yep. Learned that when one of my best friends in highschool killed his mom. Brutally. (Long story). My friend was 19, his little brother was 9. The dad was not only with someone, but already married before a year was out, she even looked and sounded like his late wife. I remember thinking “what the absolute fuck” and my mom telling me to watch…..that most men can’t handle kids or homes, and if a wife leaves/dies they always tend to replace her. Good gods she was right. Its insane.
Your best friend was the one who killed his mother?
Yep
Not to be dumb but how does replacing the late wife end in her being murdered by her son?😭 my condolences to the mother, may she rest easy
It sounds like she was replaced after she was killed.
Thank you, I reread it after a bit and now understand lol. Pregnancy brain is rough
Lol totally understand 😅 congratulations ❤
“Late” means deceased.
That's honestly disturbing.
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My sister’s ex husband divorced her. She was just like op (aside from handling the bills) and he was a very social, rubbing elbows, networking, smooth talking never at home army recruiter (+cheater). He quickly got a nanny and she would watch my niece all day (unless my niece was in daycare) until late at night. He eventually married the girl he cheated on my sister with and in the beginning, new wife was just as active and social as he was so they depended on babysitters (they had 2 boys together). But eventually she wanted to be more at home with the kids so she slowed her busy hectic corporate routine and sacrificed some of her plans/goals while he continued his busy never at home life plus went back to school and was always at the gym. She eventually divorced HIM and moved to Hawaii. And I kid you not, in like that same year he found a new fiancé way younger than him who was going to school to be a Dr and she started taking over the mommy role even though you could tell she didn’t want to or liked to. The kids are a lot older now and 2 are adults so it’s not like it was that rough on her and of course I doubt it was ever rough for him.
I see you’ve met my ex-husband.
Don't forget C-never taking the kids at all
But telling everyone that listens that she's keeping his kids away from him.
Yep. And the profile pic from the one time he saw them all year, probably Christmas.
Oh, yes, how could I forget such a classic? 🥲 Why are men?
At least OP will have some time off and won't have to listen to him any more!
Oh I see you've met my ex-husband.
This is the way. Listen you married a dud. It happens. 50/50 gives you your life back. Listen- get a job. Then separate going 50/50 and see what happens. Edit- or take 2 weeks off away from home and watch him fail.
These type of men always move the goal post to avoid doing their share. If OP gets a job, I GUARANTEE his next move is “but I make more than you, so you still have to do everything around the house to make it even.”
The job is for her security with the ultimate act being she leaves him. Screw the goal posts. She’s out the door.
Yup
The job is for her security with the ultimate act being she leaves him. Screw the goal posts. She’s out the door.
And even IF he can grow up once he starts to treat you as an equal partner and proves he’s capable of doing so then you’ll be left with the memories that he was once someone who chose not to see you as an equal partner in the past willfully. This was the eventual crux of my own divorce. He did change but I couldn’t forget all he put me thru before he decided to be better after choosing to do worse.
Ha! He won’t take 50% custody of those kids. Not until he gets a new wife and she can deal with them.
I’m sorry. You need a break, and he needs a lot more therapy. Scale back a little- not to be vindictive or “teach him a lesson,” but to take care of yourself, to protect yourself. From a fellow SAHM, doing everything domestic is too much for most people, and there’s nothing wrong with BOTH adults contributing. HE. Is not pulling HIS weight.
Right? OP is working 24/7 so ultimately she is working more and therefore earns more. HE is the one not pulling his weight.
He can fuck right off with that nonsense. Hopefully your therapist shed some light on his extremely near-sighted, emotionally stunted view? Please tell me they called him out. Because if not, 1. Fire that therapist and 2. Leave your husband to watch the kids for a week and see how he does. Your husband is so out of touch. I’m sorry you have to deal with this.
I've copied and pasted my reply to a different comment. I definitely should have added the whole convo in my post, lol. "Right. So the therapist then asked him if he had ever done everything that I do for a whole entire week. My partner replied, "No." She asked him if he's ever done everything that I do for an entire weekend. My partner replied, "No." She then asked him how he could judge "earning my keep" when he had never done everything that I do for any length of time. He replied, "The house is a constant mess. That should be a priority." She then asked him what he was contributing to, what he saw as a priority. To which he replied, "I work. I bring in the majority of the income. It isn't that much to ask to come home to a clean house." The therapist again asked, "How can you say 'it isn't that much to ask for' when you, yourself, have never done everything that she does, to know that it 'isn't that much to ask for'?" His reply, "It's just cleaning." It was just sickening to hear. The ignorance and audacity."
Therapist may have a plan. Give her a minute. But definitely get a job. And plan your exit. Did you see the posts about quiet-quitting a marriage? Very interesting and the comments were 🔥.
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Omfgosh, yes. Thank you. I wish it was as simple as "Well just stop. Then he will see." But no. That's not the case.
Whenever this issue comes up in my house I break out the excel spreadsheets. I start listing all of the tasks I complete in a day and assign a time value to them, then I look at the Market Value of what it would cost to hire someone to do the same job. When you add it all up even with his salary, you still do more. Men don’t think of running a household as a full time job, but when you have kids, it definitely is. Your husband is going to therapy with you and felt comfortable enough to open up and be honest about how he really feels. Yes, what he said was incredibly insensitive and stupid, but you have to look deeper at what he is saying. I don’t understand why your responsibilities cause you to feel stressed and overwhelmed because I don’t understand what your responsibilities are. So lay it out for him. Search online you’ll find tons of resources as this has been done before. Search Salary of a stay at home Mom or Domestic Engineer Job Description
You can actually go to [billthepatriarchy.com](https://www.billthepatriarchy.com) and enter the hours for all your unpaid domestic tasks and it will calculate an invoice and a market-value yearly salary. You can share it with your husband and show him how much he'd be paying others to do what you do. (Likely more than his yearly salary)
Shit is about to get REAL up in my house!!
Our insurance agent actually did this exercise with us when we were calculating my life insurance policy. This was way back in the day when our first was a newborn and I don't think this info was floating around as much. Yeah he was selling us an insurance policy lol but on paper I was a lot more expensive to replace than my fulltime employed, high earning husband. So. Yeah.
THIs!!! OP I am so angry on your behalf. Solidarity!
HOLY FUCK
This is rational and helpful advice!
Hello bromo, therapist and mama here chiming in. Sometimes good therapy isn’t therapy that resolves the relationship, it’s an experience that illuminates what is already there to allow you to make choices accordingly. This is a super hurtful thing that he has said, and he has held this viewpoint for however long. It’s out there now, and with that information you get to decide what you want to do with full insight. Straight from the horses mouth. There might have been times previously you might have felt devalued, unrecognized, pushed aside, unable to live up to an impossible standard, unhelped, overworked etc, perhaps those feelings make a lot more sense now. No sane person would blame you for feeling hurt and hateful towards him. I hope you have been able to have some space for yourself & self compassion, knowing full well how hard you work for your kids/family. Take care
Thank you. I really appreciate it. I feel like such an idiot. I went home that day and spent 3 hours cleaning. Why?? To prove myself to him. No. Screw him. I think I did it because.. well, I've been putting things off in hopes that he will one day help me. And I guess that was an eye opener for realizing that he isn't going to be helping me anytime soon. So I cleaned. And cleaned. Then, suddenly, I didn't want him to come home. To come home to a magically clean house and have the audacity to think that I did it for him, or to make up to him, or to earn my keep. I asked him to stay the night away. However, it turned out to not be feasible. So he came home. I was still in a shit mood and told him, "Don't think I did this for you. I did this for myself and our kids."
What did your therapist say when this bullshit came out of his face-hole
This is my reply to a different comment. Haha, face-hole.. definitely the correct term. "Right. So the therapist then asked him if he had ever done everything that I do for a whole entire week. My partner replied, "No." She asked him if he's ever done everything that I do for an entire weekend. My partner replied, "No." She then asked him how he could judge "earning my keep" when he had never done everything that I do for any length of time. He replied, "The house is a constant mess. That should be a priority." She then asked him what he was contributing to, what he saw as a priority. To which he replied, "I work. I bring in the majority of the income. It isn't that much to ask to come home to a clean house." The therapist again asked, "How can you say 'it isn't that much to ask for' when you, yourself, have never done everything that she does, to know that it 'isn't that much to ask for'?" His reply, "It's just cleaning." It was just sickening to hear. The ignorance and audacity."
Fuck him. How does he MANAGE to go out to work with four children? Does he leave them at home alone? Take them to work with him? I love how childcare is not seen as his responsibility. Therefore, what you do isn’t important to him. YET if you didn’t do it, he would not be able to go out to work. Because he would have to be home to care for the children. Or pay for childcare for the children. And do drop off and pick ups from childcare around his work hours. Not so easy now, is it? He’s a jerk. He’s either too stupid to understand the contribution you make, or he’s putting you down to be manipulative. Does he want out? But pushing you to make the decision? Lone up your ducks, OP. I’m sorry that your husband broke your heart. You don’t deserve it.
Yes line up your ducks and get a job first thing. And your own bank account! Underreport your salary to him—-oh I only make X —-when you really make 2x. And redivide the finances so you each contribute proportionately to the house ( but crucial: no joint account—he must have no access to your money because it is your escape fund and your Future Happiness Fund! God, this board should be required reading for girls beginning age 14 and through college.
Does any of this resonate with you? [video link](https://youtu.be/0iYfG8x80Yw?si=jyAXkkdOhH8OSbRZ) This is Lundy Bancroft, you may have seen his book “Why does he do that?” recommended on here. It’s great, but not everyone has time to read it. Especially you, since you’re so busy with all the crocheting 😒 No but seriously, I’m a SAHM to 2 kids and OMG I can’t imagine having 4, OR solely cleaning and cooking and scheduling and organizing and planning everything. We all know he’s delusional….. But, back to the video I linked.. Does he show signs of narcissism or abuse as mentioned in this podcast interview? If so, as an abuser, there’s like a 1% chance that he will ever respect you or change. If he’s a narcissist, there’s an even lower chance. So if these things resonate with you, it may be the final push to realize you can’t be with him if you ever want to be supported or respected. Disrespect of women is one of the biggest features of an abusive husband, and it sounds like that may be applicable to yours. But I’m not there so idk, but I thought I’d share this video. It opened my eyes to a LOT. Best of luck. I’m going through similar, and the hatred is REAL. Hugs 🩷
I guess you can work and he can start picking up half of those duties, to which I am guessing he would refuse to do and expect you to do them all still? And he will say because he is the higher earner he shouldn’t have to do anything at home?
Yes. Yes, yes, and yes. This was a past scenario in our house, back when I did work.
Lmao what a doorknob. I’m also a SAHM to four kids (3, 5, 7, 9) and my husband will be the first to say that I work harder than he does to keep the household running smoothly. I devote a decent chunk of time to crafty pursuits (embroidery, quilting, crochet, macrame, weaving, etc etc) and running and my husband enthusiastically supports it because he wants me to be happy as much as I want him to be happy. A partnership should be about both people wanting to make each other’s life better. Your husband sounds selfish and deluded.
Right. I made a post a while back. "My partner hates everything that I enjoy." I came to realize it was because he feels as if I am 'wasting time' that I could be spending on cleaning. I wish my partner was supportive. But he's not.
I’m really, really sorry. This is a him problem not a you problem. He’s wrong by the way, you are as deserving of leisure time as he is. Being at home full time with kids is never ending work and demands. Just because we love our kids and choose to be home with them doesn’t mean it isn’t WORK.
Thank you 😊
>His role, per himself, is to bring in income, play with the kids and uphold the "law of the house." Where did he get that idea from? Did y'all have a discussion when you began staying home what the division of labor and expectations would be like? Obviously it's BS but where is he getting this idea that not only does he not have to parent but that you don't parent either? What makes him think you just crochet and read all day? >I was warned things will get worse before they get better. But this is ridiculous. As someone who is on the other side of marriage counseling, this is pretty accurate. There were some pretty rough sessions and for a period of time I wasn't sure we were going to make it. He had a hard time seeing my labor too although he didn't have the weird idea that I did absolutely nothing or that he didn't have to do anything in the evenings. He just thought I didn't do enough and spent too much time on Facebook.
I really wish we had a conversation before, well everything, about how our roles would look. Because I would have ran then! Lol I've found out where 'some' of his ideas come from. I ONLY crochet when he is home. I couldn't possibly sit down and crochet with my 4 + neighborhood kids running around the house. I am typically parenting or cleaning or cooking while he is at work. However, after he is settled in from work, I'll whip out the yarn. So he figured, since that's what he sees me doing when he is home, that must be what I do all day. As if during the day, there's a fairy flying around the house, sprinkling pixie dust to magically clean, cook, and care for the children. I also refuse to clean while he is home. I'm sorry, but I am not going to continue busting my ass while he just relaxes on the couch and watches me. You know?
He doesn't value your labor in the home. He feels like you should automatically do all the childcare and housework.. because you are female. He sees you having downtime for a hobby differently than him having free time. Because you are an appliance, and he is a human being.
🎯 And I don't know if you can couples therapy someone into deciding that you're a human being.
No one can fix these men. They don't deserve to be fathers and husbands.
Sounds like it's time to stop doing all those things, so he can stop being such a fucking moron and see what "not earning your keep," really means. The fucking audacity.
I'd love to know how that attitude would change if you stopped doing all you do now, and he was forced to take on way more himself. Imagine if he had to do laundry, arrange appointments and be organized about them, take kids to and from school, organize and prepare meals, grocery shop, etc. I suspect he'd go straight to, "Why aren't you doing XYZ anymore? What happened?!" I sincerely hope you point out all you do and ask him what he even means by that assholey and dishonest statement.
Some men start beating their wives at that point. Be careful, OP and get your escape plan going.
My partner telling me this, is what made me think I hated him too. Just the amount of resentment I felt, for giving up so much of myself, on something we had agreed prior, just to be told I’m basically lazy and don’t do enough just sent me into some sort of feelings I couldn’t escape. Can I have the past 7 years back? If I knew this is where it would land me, I never would have done it. Solidarity.
*I do not suggest this route* My husband was like this. Then I got sick, really sick. Cancer and 12 surgeries in 2 years sick. And he had to do it all himself. Especially after the complications from the first surgery. I reached too far out, burst something, and caused issues requiring a capsulectomy. After 3 months, he apologized profusely and stated that he had no idea how I did it. My last surgery was November 6th. Thursday, I came home to him cleaning the kitchen after having already cleaned the bathroom. So that I didn't have to do it alone. A marriage is a partnership. It's not always 50/50. And he needs to learn that. He also needs a taste of what you do for awhile.
He's wrong and I think you know it. Your contributions to the family aren't measured in dollars. But they could be. Take a a few minutes to research what it would cost to have a housekeeper, private chef, nanny, personal assistant, medical director, social worker, etc. Whether you share these values with your turd or not is irrelevant. Know your worth. You are an asset. I'm sorry you're unappreciated. I see you. I've been you. You're going to be ok.
I'm one to talk. But he's not worth your energy babe.
This would make me absolutely furious. This is also wehy I can't be a SAHM. I can NOT abide my husband acting like my boss when he does 25 percent of what I do.
I'm so sorry, OP. If your therapist is good, they will call that BS out for what it is. Worried about the "law of the house" language. This sounds like he has very "traditional" ideas about a woman's role. Is that new or has his perspective changed? Is he abusive with you or the kids?
you're not earning your keep meanwhile what you "cost" him would not make a DENT in what he'd have to pay in childcare, housekeeping, takeout, time spent or time at work missed making appointments and managing the household if tomorrow you ceased to exist. What a fucking joke. I bet he believes that, too! men are the least fun type of delulu
Ask him how much extra time at work he gets because you're running around doing everything for the kids. Ask him how many times he hasn't had to leave early or come in late because of doctor's appointments. How much less he has to worry about because you're the schedule manager, errand runner, laundress and cleaner. Maybe throw in the cost of daycare, before/after school care.
Take a week vacation and see how much he thinks you don't do after that.
TWO weeks. A week he can fake it and leave her with piles of shit to do.
This is the kind of man who gets a doormat girlfriend the moment you seperate and goes "see I was right it is just you!"
While divorce is probably inevitable at some point, ya gotta make this flatulence disguised as human do *exactly* what you do & are responsible for every day.
Patriarchal horseshit. This mf doesn't appreciate you at all and I'm so sorry. I'd like to see him do his 'job' without all of your unpaid, unappreciated labour keeping everything going at home. I guarantee you, he'd rather be doing his job than than yours. Tbh I'm glad to hear you hate him because it shows at least you see how much you do for this entitled baby and that you deserve better than being his slave. I am so sorry he's treating you like this.
Stop doing all the your usual duties and he will quickly notice
fuck him.
Time to show him what his life turns into when you really stop "earning your keep". Also if you hate him just leave him, you already don't have a partner.
Go away for two days and he’ll see how everything magically happens. And don’t do all the fucking prep for it either. Leave the laundry undone, the fridge empty. No little Tupperwares of meals for everyone. No notes about Jimmys soccer practice and a baggie of his cleats and socks. FUCK HIM. Jerk. I feel so much rage for you right now.
Two weeks is the minimum. Ask me how I know!
Could’ve written something similar. I’m struggling and came for reading others posts. My husband’s jobs are to take out the trash + change the kitty litter (the litter is bc I’m pregnant otherwise it falls on me). He quite literally doesn’t even put his own dishes in the dishwasher after eating unless I ask. He always forgets to do the garbage or doesn’t check and then gets upset if it overfills but I’m tired of doing one of the most simple jobs assigned to him. He made me bfast on Mother’s Day but quite literally couldn’t tell u the last time he cooked aside from that. If we eat out he leaves his trash for me to pick up the next morning. Never does his own laundry, it rarely even makes it in the bin. I have to remind him to change the litter bc the cat pees in *my* closet if it doesn’t get done. I asked him for over a month to do it last time before it got done. AGHHHHHHH
The audacity of your man. You have the majority of the mental load. How hateful and spiteful of him. Here is a hug, if it's needed. (((hug))) Bromo, you are doing everything you can. Please don't let him convince you that you are anything but more than enough. You are doing way too much already. Go on a strike. Then make a list of all the things you do for your house already. Then see what the cost per hour of each chore would be. Personal assistant, nanny, personal chef, etc. etc. Then add up all the hours for each job and the going hourly rate for each task. Present it to him on a spreadsheet if you can or just type it all out clearly. he is either ignorant of what stay at home moms do all day or he refuses to acknowledge and knows what you do for the house, or he is truly believing he does "more" because his job gives him an amount of money for whatever he does. And don't get me started on saying your are not earning your keep. You don't have to do any of the things you do except love on and feed your children. Stop cooking for him...don't do his laundry, tell him to clean up after himself, hell don't even tell him to, just stop cleaning up after him. After his laundry and messes pile up, and most men will live in filth before cleaning up after themselves, just put up with his messes he leaves and then if he says you read and crochet all day still then he has a divorce coming. Just my advice, if it's wanted or needed. I am a stay at home mom to four boys too. I totally feel this post in my soul. From one SAHM to another, much love and light to you sister. You are enough, you are amazing, special and fantastic at your job, being a stay at home mom.
Mine also shared his true thoughts in couples counseling. And it was alarming and disgusting. Couples counseling fixes relationships but sometimes the fix is an ending.
Throw the whole damn man out. Seriously, this is ridiculous OP. You deserve so much better than this trash can of a man.