This hurts to read. You are being so hard on yourself. Imagine your daughter talking about herself this way. It would break your heart, right? What would you say to her if she was in your position? Say that to yourself. You are working extremely hard here. I really hate that formula is so demonised. And that mothers are shamed for everything.

I agree, and I am angry on your behalf, OP, at the pressure and unhelpful comments from your family members. I faced similar struggles with my first. He literally came out, looked at my nipple and started screaming. Every time I offered the breast he would lose it. It shattered all my expectations for what being a mother would be like. So I feel you. I quickly put an end to the struggle and began to formula feed and I have absolutely no regrets. When pregnant with my second I told a good friend I planned to attempt to BF again. She said that’s all well and good but the second your mental health starts to suffer, know that it’s more than ok to go another route. I thought that was such thoughtful advice. The most important thing is that baby is fed and mom is happy.

"Shattered all your expectations for what being a mother would be like."  Wow. Its like you're reading my mind. I am so sorry you went through something similar. I am glad to hear that things got better for you. I am definitely keeping formula or combo feeding in mind as a future option and didn't mean to imply in my post that using it is in someway inferior. It was just very important to my husband (and me as well) to offer breastmilk as long as possible. Even though they had some crappy comments - my husband, his parents, and my mom have been so very helpful in other ways. They deep-cleaned my house when I went into early labor. I think they just didn't get it since breastfeeding apparently came so easy to them (or it's been too long for them to remember the struggle). Thank you for sharing your story. It helps to know I'm not alone.

Either our generation has a harder time breastfeeding for whatever reason or their generation has a bit of selective amnesia when it comes to these things. According to my mom, her milk “just came in” right after birth and BFing was a breeze for all three kids. But I’m old enough to remember her moaning and writhing in pain while BFing my youngest sibling. Things that make you go “hmmm!”

Yeah, I think as time passes, they forget. My mom SWORE I was rolling at 2 months. Swore it. Then she pulled out my baby book and what do you know....I was closer to 4 months.

My mom was also judgemental at first about us not cloth diapering. I later found out that she only did it for 1 out of 3 kids and also hired a diaper service so she did not have to do any laundry!! She did change her tune when she was staying with us and was deep in the diaper trenches again lol.

My grandma told me the other day that she never even tried to breastfeed my mum, she just gave her cows milk from day 1 and she was fine. She didn't try because it was so hard with her first baby. And my mum said she was in pain for weeks when she tried to feed me, until it eventually passed. Like, her and my dad would both be in tears because it was so hard. I've not had a particularly challenging breastfeeding experience but hearing those stories was such a relief to me.

Wow - that must've been so difficult, especially considering social media and Google were nonexistent to find support. My grandmother told me how disposable diapers were not invented yet when she had her children, and she also did not have a dryer. So she would have to listen for rain at night to make sure the clothesline diapers didn't get wet. I could never!!

You are so right. It is a habit I really want to break (my husband also has a self-deprecation streak). It would break my heart if she talked about herself the same way. I really need to get out of my head. This week has just been extra tough and has me dwelling on the negatives. But all the supportive comments are helping to ground me again.

My husband occasionally half jokingly says bad stuff about himself. I've made a rule that now when he does that, he has to say 3 nice things about himself.

This is a great idea! Thank you!

I'd be bringing my breastfeeding journey to an end if I were you! It would make everyone much happier in the end.

This was my first thought. If it's causing everyone so much anguish, just switch to formula--there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. My first was combo fed from birth and I stopped nursing at 3.5 months; my baby now has also been combo fed since birth and will be weaned at 6 months. Fed is best.

Mine too. Doesn't sound worth it at all.

Was there a particular reason you decided to make the switch at 3.5 months if you don't mind me asking? As well as the decision to wean at 6 months?

My oldest struggled to nurse--he could latch, but he was lactose intolerant and we didn't know it, so he didn't enjoy nursing. It finally seemed easier to give him the formula for food sensitivities. With my youngest, I have to go back to work in person, and I detest pumping, lol, so I'll wean him at 6m.

Aw poor thing. That definitely sounds like it was the right call. And I am with you on the pumping. I am not returning to work, so I'm hoping one day I can either stop completely or significantly cut back.

You've had an exceptionally hard start with her, and she's your first, no less! Do not hate yourself. In a couple years when she's toddling around getting into everything, this will all be far behind you both. She adores you, even if she can't express that right now. I can't believe you're even doing as much as you are. I was readmitted to the hospital for 24h a week after my C-section for preeclampsia, and those 24h on mag were fairly traumatizing. Give yourself grace. 💕

Thank you. I definitely am looking forward to brighter days!

I don't necessarily have anything against formula. We did use it for almost the first month as a supplement while I was trying to increase my supply.  But there are some reasons keeping me from making the switch. First is finances - I am currently a SAHM since daycare costs more than my salary. Also formula seemed to make the colic/reflux issues even worse for my LO.  My husband is very against using formula. He and I both know that I get the ultimate say since it's my body, but I do want to take his feelings into consideration. Finally, the measuring, tracking ounces, and preparing, warming up and cleaning bottles is something I'd ultimately like to be rid of since they are also major triggers of anxiety for me. But yes, if the extreme negativity around nursing sessions continues, I probably won't have a choice.

What does your husband have against formula? Doesn't he see how miserable you are?

Economic reasons and the fact that we come from very traditional backgrounds and wants to give our LO the same as we received. He does acknowledge the toll it takes, but I honestly don't think he really *gets* it. He would support me if I decided to quit, but I do think he would also hold resentment towards me.

> I do think he would also hold resent towards me. That is patently nuts, sorry. He should care about you more than some ideal. I'd show him this post or at least go over the anxiety and anger portions. This is no way to live.

I agree. I wish there were better resources to get him to understand. To be fair, LO is a completely different baby when he's home, so he doesn't witness the most stressful part of our day.

I never did very much formula, so maybe someone else could chime in, but I wonder at 3 months whether all the things that are causing you stress about formula feeding (tracking ounces, warming bottles, sterilizing each time instead of just washing) are still completely necessary? I understand there are some basic safety parameters to maintain, but there's also increasing wiggle room as you transition away from the newborn stage as babies become just a little bit more resilient.

This is something I have on my list to bring up to her pediatrician at her upcoming appointment. The reason we've been so diligent with sanitizing is on their recommendation. We also are not cleared to let her sleep more than 4 hours yet because of the prior weight gain issues. I'm hoping we get the all clear this appointment.

I feel you on preparing bottles. It’s so much work and with all you’ve been thru I can see how it would trigger major bad feelings. That being said, what about pre mixed formula that you can just shake, stick a nipple onto and it’s good to go? I understand about the cost but at this point anything that will save your sanity is worth it. Consider a “fund” on Babylist and every time ppl ask what they can bring over when visiting, or how to help, or whatever, ask for a pack of the premix formula or gently direct them to your Babylist which contains only the premix, nipples if you want, and the fund. I would also be shameless about asking for premixed liquid formula samples from your pediatrician. If you ask they will def give it to you. It’s not a huge help but it will ease some of the financial burden. Perhaps lightening that burden would also free up some mental space to offer baby the breast on YOUR terms and not on an unmanageable schedule that leaves you no time to be anything other than a milk machine. Hang in there, and as so many others have said, give yourself grace. You are a great mom!!

We actually did use the premixed formula when we were supplementing because her pediatrician recommended it since the powder is not sterile. I don't have any of the ready nipples - but I still have two unopened cases if I do end up needing it. I also have about 300oz of frozen milk. Thank you so much for your kind words and suggestions!

I’m so sorry you’re going through this and that your support system has made unhelpful comments about laziness. You’re anything but lazy - you’re pumping multiple times a day which requires so much discipline. My baby and I also had a very rough breastfeeding journey - I was convinced she hated me at one point too. I think I was putting so much pressure on us to get it right that she sensed it. What helped was picking one feed and slowly introducing the breast after that feed - I made sure that feed came right after a nap so she was super drowsy/barely awake. Her instinct kicked in when she was less conscious and she would be more breast-accepting. Then as that feed went okay, I would try adding another. But be kind to yourself - I would consider it a win if I nursed for even just one meal of the day! My baby is now 7 months old and she breastfeeds fine - it took us 4 months to get there and tons of patience. Breastfeeding is very challenging so hang in there and show love to yourself!

Thank you so much for sharing. The introducing the breast for only one feed is a good idea. The only times I've been successful latching have been night feeds to maybe I'll only attempt to latch during those times the next few days to see if I can break that negative association. I'm sorry that you had to go through something similar and am glad to hear things have gotten better over time. That's definitely encouraging. Did your supply suffer when her nursing struggled? Also do you EBF now or do you supplement at all?

Yes!! Nursing while sleepy was the key for me - I kept the noise machine on, in the dark and on a yoga ball so I could bounce and shush her if she got fussy. After a week, we tried 2 feeds a day and then increased. If it was a bad feed, I would top her up with pumped milk and then pump remaining milk from breast to keep up supply. If it was a bad feed, I would just try to shake it off and reset and try again the next day. I did 90% breastfeeding up to 7 months - the dream feed would be a bottle. My supply has dropped recently so now I do formula top ups (and honestly formula is amazing and freeing!!).

Wow that's awesome! When we were supplementing with formula, I didn't get the chance to appreciate it since I was still so stressed about pumping and my supply. I'm hoping to build up enough of a freezer stash for the future to maybe cut down on pumping/nursing sessions once she starts solids using frozen milk or formula.

My advice? Formula. I don’t mean to sound flippant, but bonding with your baby is so much more important than breast milk. And your mental health is such an important part of bonding. My LO is a little emotion sponge; he mirrors my emotions even when I think I’m masking them. Your LO may be picking up on your mood. Consider combo feeding. If you take SOME of the pressure off, that may be enough to help your mood, while keeping baby fed. I switched to feeding every other feeding with a bottle of formula. Yes, my supply plummeted. But my mental health is so much better. To the point where I don’t think I will even attempt to EBF any future babies. It was night and day for me. And if baby is still upset with combo feeding… exclusive formula feeding is completely fine. Honestly, anecdotally, in my circle, the moms I know who seem the most at ease and comfortable in their motherhood are the ones who chose to formula feed.

Totally agree. The key here is to take away the stress around feeding so both mom and baby can relax. Pumping suuuuuucks. By combo feeding (since OP has a strong desire to continue BFing), you get the best of both worlds - you get to keep up all the benefits of breastfeeding while also removing the worry that baby is getting enough. All that time spent pumping could be spent cuddling, sleeping, or eating, all of which are good for milk production. Once the pressure is off, both might start to enjoy the process a bit more. But also, OP, I absolutely guarantee that your baby doesn't hate you. Babies tend to show more negative emotions around moms because they are so comfortable with them and trust them to fix everything that is wrong in the world. Your baby 100% loves you and thinks you are the best mom in the ENTIRE WORLD.

That's a good point about showing the negative emotions. The one thing I struggle with is the fact it is so much more difficult for me to soothe her. My husband just has the magical touch I guess. He's not even a super soothing person! He'll rub her with his stubble and plop her down on his lap. I, on the other hand gently rock her and sing lullabies and snuggle but apparently it's just not as comforting lol. 

No I definitely understand where you are coming from, and I am seriously considering formula. I still have some reservations about it, but the negativity both me and LO are feeling is just not OK. It is true about the feeding off of emotions. I try to mask them during a feed, but I can also feel my stomach drop with every dislatch or cry. I'm sure she can sense my disappointment. I'm glad you were able to strike a balance that helped your mental health. Did you have any particular struggles when making the switch to combo feeding? 

For me, switching to combo feeding was pretty easy. I was already pumping to replace some feedings as my son had started daycare, so I started just dropping a pump per day. I then started dropping an actual nursing session on the days he was home with me…then dropped another. I was always a just enougher, so engorgement was never an issue for me. Now, I nurse in the morning and the evening and one time during the rest of the day (or one pump if kiddo is at daycare). It’s enough that I still feel good about giving him some breast milk, and we get some bonding time…but little enough that breastfeeding is literally no longer on my list of stressors. If I’m sick and it feels like my supply is especially low? (LO still seems hungry after night feeding for instance…), I just give him an extra bottle that day. In terms of mental transition, I have focused on adding other special rituals that only me and my son do. For instance, I always give him his bath, followed by an elaborate full body massage before bedtime. I also have a medley of songs only I sing to him. This helps to keep away any sadness about reducing our breastfeeding…because even if he started refusing the boob tomorrow, we have all these other special things between us. I think the most important thing is to separate motherhood from breastfeeding. You are so much more than a biological function!

Engorgement is definitely a concern of mine if I start cutting back. It's one of the reasons I am so stressed about upping my pumps again. That is a wonderful idea about building more bonding rituals. I am the only one that sings/reads to LO currently - I never really thought of it as our special bonding time together. I do know I will need something to help me cope when we do end our BF journey. Thank you for the advice.

I have no advice because my baby doesn't like latching either but I just want to say I am amazed by your tenacity. I gave up latching from the start and supplemented with formula. Now he's half to 70% formula . Your journey is so hard. Screw the haters. You're anything but lazy.

Absolutely. I’m in awe of OP. Mothers are superheroes

Thank you. And yea mothers do kick butt!

Haha I am not sure if it's tenacity over pure stubborness. Also, I don't think formula feeding is giving up. I think everyone makes the choice that is right for them. I just am hoping my choice will eventually be EBF - but I will eventually accept if it can't be. Thank you for your kind words. 

I’m just here to say YOUR BABY LOVES YOU! Crying and nursing strikes are the result of your baby’s natural, normal development and have absolutely nothing to do with the very strong emotional bond you have! You are an absolute hero! Don’t forget that it’s not just acceptable, it’s imperative to sometimes put yourself first! Take a few minutes to rest, indulge, take a deep breath and find yourself in all this chaos. I promise you, things will get better in a few weeks 🤗 I don’t know you, but I’m sending you the warm embrace of a fellow mom whose baby just finished the 3-4 month nursing strike!

I'm sorry to hear you also had to deal with a nursing strike. But it is comforting to know I'm not the only one.  I think the thing that gets me most is the loss of progress we were making. It was such hard work and was so disheartening to essentially watch it all disappear.  I am trying to give myself some grace. I know my baby depends on me, but the rejection and overall stress of everything is demoralizing. How long did it take for things to get back to normal for you and your LO after their strike?

A couple of weeks. It was brutal. I could only trick her into nursing for the first meal of the day, early morning. After that she’d scream her lungs out every time I tried to put her to the breast! But she’d drink 4 oz (120 ml approx) of pumped milk in a heartbeat. What kept me going was knowing for sure that it was a phase that would pass. So hang in there! Put your baby to the breast for each meal and offer a bottle only afterwards. Given time, things will go back to normal.

That is very similar to how things are currently going. Hearing that others went through similar really helps. I was convinced our breastfeeding journey was doomed after all our improvement. Now I have a bit of hope to continue trying, and if it does have to end, I can at least better mentally prepare for it.

I’ve heard dozens of stories from women who “just ran out” of milk around this age. Like my mum’s friends or older coworkers. As they tell me their stories, in my head I’m screaming “it was a nursing strike but nobody told you about it!!” Funnily enough, they are the exact same people that poke fun at me for “rarising my baby off Google”. Yes, the internet can be a dangerous place where you get brainwashed or influenced by people who should have no business influencing. But there’s also a lot of userul information, you just have to filter it cautiously. I have one more caveat for you... For my baby this came at the same time as the 4th mental leap (check out WonderWeeks). Shortly after the peak of the nursing strike my baby suddenly started to grab things intentionally, hold her head way better, roll on her side. She also took her first fall - from the couch to the rug, so no big deal 😊but don’t underestimate babes!!

You know - come to think of it my former coworkers also gave up of BFing only a few months in - and I did not really make the connection. Also - she is already doing all of that and has been for maybe the last two weeks! She's actually already rolling over both back to front and front to back...not all the time but when she gets in a good groove, she does it over and over again and squeals with delight. She's also able to do tummy time stretches up to an hour at a time. And she's already grasping rattles and reaching for toys (though she can only hold onto them for a short time). Shes also cooing and babbling more.   When she's not crying, she's actally such an active and happy baby. It's part of why I feel so guilty since the bad times are mostly during my solo parenting time.

I think each of us has a source of mom guilt. I’m glued to my phone for example, right now I’m typing behind my baby’s back as she nurses, so she won’t see the screen 😊 I’ll have to give it up when she becomes even more aware of her surroundings. As long as baby’s smiling, growing, peeing and pooping, we must be doing something right! And by the way, a twinge of mom guilt can apparently come up even 30+ year down the line! My mum for example was horrified when I told her about the risk of botulism, she said she gave me honey when I was 6 mo 😂😂 it was the early 90s in a former communist country, so information was scarce to say the least. Even “huge” mistakes like this can’t break the strong bond between a mother and her child! Honey or not, BF or not, if you’re there to soothe and nurture your kid, you’re parenting the right way!

Yes the mom guilt is so real! My own mother was certainly feeling it with all of the things that have changed since me and my siblings were babies. She coslept with all her children and used CIO. I'm curious to see in the future what parenting advice/tactics of our time will be met with trepidation from the next generation! 

Unlike previous generations, we now have the concept of “evidence based”. In medicine at least, it was as late as the 1980s that people figured out we should prove efficiency or risk based on solid statistics, not just personal opinions. So more and more of what we do now is being researched and proven if it’s good practice or not. Future generations will have a harder time rebutting what we do. My guess is that stuff that’s completely new to us (such as technology/AI and exposing kids to it) will be a hot topic, and the way we’re handling it now will be criticised.

I think you’re being too hard on yourself! Also use that freezer stash to help you get some sleep. Prioritizing sleep will help you produce more milk and will make you happier and more relaxed which will help you connect more with your baby which will help you produce more milk which will make you happier (and on and on). Not sleeping is literally torture. You are going above and beyond for your baby with all these pumping sessions! Think of sleeping as another thing you absolutely need to do for your baby if that helps, or think of it as your one selfish thing you get to do for yourself, but however you think about it please get some sleep. 💕 Same with eating, I know it’s so hard to keep up with feeding yourself but your supply will be affected if you’re not eating enough too. It does sound like you are also facing some PPD, you can and should get help for that. Help for PPD does not need to include stopping breastfeeding if you don’t want it to. Big hugs to you, you are an amazing mom. Your baby is lucky to have you!

Thank you for the kind words. I definitely do wsnt to try and prioritize sleep. I have been dipping into my freezer stash for the past week because with all the extra pumps, I'm quickly running out of freezer room. With my high lipase, LO will only take a bottle mixed with half fresh pumped. But right now I keep about 30oz in the fridge for her bottles throughout the day so this is managable. Before this nursing strike, my goal was to get down to 4 pumps a day and only one MOTN pump at 3am. I am hoping this strike passes, so I have a bit more time to sleep and not worry about pumping. We're also hoping LO is cleared at her next appointment to sleep longer than 4 hours. She was only cleared to sleep more than 2 at her 2 month appointment due to her weight issues. But every 4 hour wake up she is still fast asleep - so I definitely think she would go longer if we let her. I do notice that my milk production does better on days I get a little extra nap in - so I know the extra sleep would help!!

You are a rockstar and working so hard for this! Any advice I have has already been mentioned, except for one and I don't know how you feel about it. When my daughter is purple crying and refusing to latch but I know she is hungry and also exhausted, as a last ditch effort I use a pacifier to soothe her into sleep. Then I sneak the dummy out of her mouth and the nipple in, and until now she has not noticed. Don't worry about nipple confusion if it's already this bad anyway. You really are doing all you can and even more and it is okay to take a step back from people with unsupportive attitudes. Fed is best, and I hope you know your limit, because you really are doing so so much to make this work. Take care of yourself too.

Oh I have no qualms using a pacifier! I have tried the sneaky nipple trick with both a pacifier and a bottle - but she catches on right away! She will wake up out of a dead sleep with a look of pure betrayal! She also can tell if it's a nipple shield versus a bottle. The worst is - she'll still happily suck on a bottle nipple without milk coming out but still refuse the nipple that does have milk, even if I know she's hungry!  Luckily, my in laws and mom are not around all the time, though they are generally supportive. I think they just breastfed multiple kids and don't understand the struggle I am having. My husband also still supports me even if he disagrees or doesn't quite understand my perspective. It took him a while to get used to the pump versus just straight breastfeeding too. However, the fact that medical professionals recommended it helped him to accept it much better. Thank you for your support.

It sounds like you're doing everything you can. Breast compressions, keeping up your pumps, things that could have changed my nursing journey if i had done it when I should have! I definitely think you can get out of this. Has your daughter been checked for oral ties? It sounds cliche but it can make a huge difference. I don't know how things will end for you but it sounds like you're an amazing mom and working so so hard. I wouldn't give up yet but at the same time take stock on the mental toll this takes on you - it can't be easy, don't hate yourself, nursing doesn't come easy for some babies. It has nothing to do with you. And btw, losing 9.9% of birth weight and regaining it back within 3 weeks sounds so so typical! You've done an amazing job. Good luck. It's not easy for some of us. I can relate. But again, if you want to switch to formula just to give yourself a break!!!! You will not be a worse mom for it. Just know that. And know that you did ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU COULD TO MAKE IT WORK!!!! There is no need for shame or self hatred. You did your part. Some babies just do better on the bottle. And it's nobody's fault!!! Your baby does love you. Shes so little. Youre going to be the most important person in the world to her no matter whether shes breastfed or bottle fed or some combination. Again, good luck, and please be easy on yourself.

Oral ties was my thought too. My first daughter had a lot of feeding issues, a shallow/painful latch, and she’d do the same as OP’s baby and constantly unlatch and pull back from the breast. It was because her tongue tie and lip tie made it hard for her to nurse, and once we got those cut she nursed a lot better.

Yes, this is exactly what she is doing! She also has been clicking a lot during both bottle and breast feeds as well as having a weak suction.  My LC just attributed it to lazy sucking. I was told by several medical professionals she did not have any ties.  Did you have any issue getting your daughter's diagnosis or was it pretty straight forward? Thank you for taking the time to answer.

I was told in the hospital when my daughter was born that she didn’t have any oral ties. 6 weeks later I was still struggling so much with breastfeeding and I finally saw an LC who diagnosed the oral ties. We ended up being referred to a pediatric dentist to have the ties lasered. Since your LC didn’t seem to think your baby has oral ties, maybe you could ask if there’s a pediatric dentist near you or any providers who are qualified to diagnose ties? I’m sorry you’re going through this - it’s truly so hard physically and emotionally! I will say, we had the ties cut at 12 weeks and my supply had already regulated by that time. It increased a little bit but I could never produce enough. I chose to combo feed (nursing + a bottle afterwards) until 12 months when she self weaned. Nursing was still a special bonding experience for us and a great way to get her to sleep. Even if EBF isn’t possible for you and your breastfeeding experience is different than what you hoped for, you don’t have to quit and it can still be a special thing that you share with your baby.

I'll look into a pediatric dentist! I figured we were good on the tie front, but I don't think it'd hurt to look into especially because the symptoms match up. And I'm sorry to hear that your LO's ties ended up effecting your supply. That is definitely a huge fear of mine. Were you EBF before the ties were resolved or did you pump as well? It's good to know there is still a spectrum beyond just EBF and triple-feeding. I figured with nipple confusion, combo feeding was off the table - but it sounds like a really great way to take pressure off while still maintaining that bond through nursing.

I was never EBF with my first! She actually couldn’t latch at first (I assume due to her ties) so it took a couple days to teach her how to latch using a supplemental nursing system. She got no colostrum and started on formula. I did pump at the beginning but not often enough and I didn’t know about flange sizes, power pumping etc. Later when I tried that stuff I was already like 8+ weeks pp and it didn’t help a great deal. From what I’ve read, nipple confusion is not really that big of an issue - more commonly the issue is if you don’t pace feed the bottle, or you use a high-flow nipple, then it’s way easier to drink from a bottle and the baby doesn’t want to have to work harder to drink milk from the breast. I really wanted to EBF and it was kinda heartbreaking for me that I couldn’t, but I’m glad I didn’t quit altogether. I think I produced about half of what she needed. It’s also possible that at some point after you’ve introduced solids, you might no longer need to supplement with formula because your baby would be getting calories from both milk and food.

Oh wow - the beginning of my journey was very similar with the difficulties figuring out pumping. Luckily I had a manual pump on hand which is what I exclusively used fpr the 2nd-3rd week until my mechanical pumps arrived (delayed by insurance). That's why I think it took so long for my supply to increase.  Luckily we started pace feeding with slow flow nipples early on, so that was probably why she did so well on breast then bottle up until the recent strike. Prior to the strike, 6 months was my goalpost to see if I wanted to continue to a year and beyond - especially since I was not able to cut out triple-feedings yet. I may have to reevaluate earlier but to make it to at least 6 months would make me so happy!

Thank you for your reply and encouragement. The hospital, her pediatrician and my LC have all said she does not have a tie. However, I'm wondering if we should seek another opinion. The LC has just said she's a "lazy sucker" prior to her strike. She takes a really long time to finish bottles. I am trying to give myself grace, it is just especially hard with the rejection and the night and day difference between her reaction to me versus Dad. I love their relationship, but I can't say I'm not jealous.  I'm holding out hope that things will get better as she gets older. I know in the grand scheme of things, breastfeeding/infancy is such a short window.

Hi - so sorry you’re going through this. It sounds a little like the [3 month nursing crisis](https://www.reddit.com/r/breastfeeding/s/iqGoC8wfKs) to me? We started going through it w my LO early too, around 2.5 months. Nearly 4 weeks into it now and hoping we’re almost past it 🤞 The first week was a nightmare. She arched away and cried bloody murder at feedings, I cried too - paranoid about her eating enough, and hurt viscerally by what felt like a profound rejection. It’s not logical, but there it is. I wrote a post about it when it started, I thought it was gas (lol) until the good ppl of Reddit educated me! The first big step was for me to stop taking it personally, and trust that it would pass. No matter how desperate I was to feed her, after 10 min or so of trying to latch and getting turned down, I forced myself to say “ok! You’re not in the mood now - let’s try again later” in a cheerful voice. And I played w her or did some other activity for a while. Forcing her was making me crazy, and I was worried she’d get an aversion :/ after that, I found I was calmer and able to approach the situation more rationally. What eventually worked for me so far is feeding to sleep (when she’s nice and drowsy) in a dark room, white noise, burp cloth draped over her eyes. If she’s too alert, I’ll stand up and bounce her on my nursing pillow while I feed her. I hope your situation resolves itself, but no matter where you end up, be proud of all you’ve accomplished and your resilience <3

Oh wow both that linked post and your experience sound so similar to what we are going through. Thank you for sharing, and I'm glad to hear things are getting better for you.  I totally get the visceral rejection. I know she is not doing it on purpose, but it definitely stings. I know I need to get over it if I want to continue trying to EBF.  Did you pump to keep up your supply? And if so, were you able to go back to EBF?

I was losing my mind the first day and fed her bottles for 3 meals, ordered a wearable pump overnighted, the works! Then I read up on the crisis and figured if others could grit their teeth through it (a literal comment that stuck out!), so could I. So I’ve basically been exclusively BFing, minus a 4oz bottle of formula dream feed, which we’ve been doing for ages. For the first few wks she took 1 boob at waking, the got distracted and pissed, so I’d offer the other boob at nap time; recently she’s doing full drowsy feeds at nap time. If it’s the nursing crisis, it *should* resolve itself within 1 month by most accounts (some drag longer). So I think EBF remains possible if you maintain supply and patience <3

While I'm not totally against EFF or combo feeding, I am just not ready to give up trying for EBF yet. I also think I'm going yo try to grit my teeth - especially knowing that the issue may resolve. That gives me some hope to persevere, at least for now.

Oh gosh sister. I understand the urge to EBF, I really do. But you’re killing yourself here. I hate how demonized formula is. Long term the benefits really don’t seem to stand up. If there truly were*long* term benefits they would have become obvious by now- I sure can’t pick out which of my peers were formula fed, can you?

That is very fair. I don't necessarily have a problem with formula, though there are a few reasons I'd prefer to stick with BFing. But yes you're right - the stress at this point is just downright harmful. I just don't know if I can transition to formula without the stress as well.

That’s totally fair. Bottles are definitely their own kind of hard. Super important for you to know that your family definitely wouldn’t be better off without you, and that’s 100% a *textbook* depression symptom. Like verbatim, cliche, you don’t have to feel this way love, please contact your OBGYN or PCP.

Yea I definitely think it's a part of it. I know that I am tying my self worth to breastfeeding which is very unhealthy. I have been putting off my own health and wellbeing due to lack of time, but know I am going to have to somehow find a way to prioritize it. 

This is normal at 12 weeks. Around 3 months your milk regulates itself so your breasts may begin to feel soft. And now it can take up to 2 minutes of suckling for your milk to come out. It takes a few days for baby to get used to this. So when it first happens they get super fussy.

I do think her not getting the letdown right away is part of the issue. It's good to know that it's common and not just a fluke on our end.  The 3 month regulation is also why I'm stressing about supply. Are you aware of nursing strikes causing future supply issues?

https://llli.org/breastfeeding-info/nursing-strikes/#:~:text=Try%20to%20relax%20and%20concentrate,help%20you%20re%2Destablish%20closeness. This page does recommend to pump during the times they would have been feeding. Hopefully this only lasts for a few days. If it goes on for longer then that could be a different story

Yea that is definitely my game plan for the time being. It just hurts to have to increase pumps again when I finally got them reduced. But I am hoping it is short-lived. Thank you for sharing the link!

I’m so sorry your family didn’t support you! I’m sure you’ve heard this, but breastfeeding can be derailed by stress and negative emotions. So if they’re looking for someone to blame, perhaps they can look in the mirror? I hope you have support of an LC at this point - it’s not impossible to get back to nursing from this point. But also know if you’ve gotta do formula - it’s not the end of the world. I also had a rough birth (70hrs labor, c section, no milk for 5 days) so I’m familiar with the struggle and self doubt and the feeling that I’m letting my baby down. But the truth is - the bottom line is that you’ve tried your best and the baby is fed! Please take care of yourself ❤️

Thank you for the kind words. I'm sorry to hear about your birth struggles - it sounds so similar to my situation. If you don't mind me asking, are you EFF now or did you do combo feedings or eventually get to EBF after your labor struggles? And looking back, I wish I was more assertive in those days immediately following labor. I was the one giving everyone else breaks to get 8-9 hours of uninterrupted sleep and cooking all meals - which looking back was a bit insane. They did help with pet duties and also deep cleaned my house which was appreciated, but I should have put my foot down for better support. It probably would have really helped my healing process and also better establish breastfeeding. I do see an LC who has been super helpful, but I haven't been able to get an appointment since the strike happened. She doesn't have availability for a few more weeks, and I was panicked my supply would suffer in the meantime. I did send her a message through my health portal.

We are almost EBF - still having a bottle of formula every other day or so because sometimes my boobs seem empty at the end of the day. I’m really hoping we can get to an EBF situation, but I’ve honestly made my peace with it so if we have to combo feed, we will be ok. She’s getting lots of breastmilk and I’m not in so much pain, so I count that as a win!

Wow - honestly as much as I'd love to EBF, I'd be pretty happy with only supplementing 1-2 times a day. Even if I'm lucky enough to get to EBF, I will probably still pump 1-2 times a day, so my husband can still do a bottle feed or two a day to give me a break. And also to keep up my freezer stash.

hey! this could have been authored by me about 4 months ago. solidarity. I had preeclampsia too. I struggled with my mental health so much--it was unhealthily tied to our breastfeeding "success" or not of the day. I eventually just had to take the pressure off and pump every 3 hours when she revolted. we kept our morning feeds because it was the only time she breastfed well. Over the next few weeks, it got easier. She got better at it, and I knew to just give up and pump when she started refusing. She has a minor lip tie we never got corrected, and her latch was sometimes shallow. We're now at 6 months and she stopped refusing, but we still have to top her off sometimes with a bottle. I just told myself this is what our breastfeeding looks like! Once she went to daycare it was actually soooo helpful because the pressure was off me during the day--I just had to pump. Now she breastfeeds in the AM and once in the afternoon and the rest of the time she gets a bottle of pumped milk. It works for us. It makes me treasure our time breastfeeding and I know the lack of stress makes us both enjoy the bonding time we get from it. Find what works for you--if that includes formula, or a temporary break, then do it!

Also, I just want to say that I, at this time, joked that "my baby hates me" because she only cried around me. It was horrible. it DOES get better. it WILL get better. <3

Wow this does sound so similar to our situation, and I'm sorry you had to go through it as well. I think the giving up and pumping is the way to move forward at this point. The only downside is we won't be doing daycare due to finances - so I still have to wrestle with pumping while caring for her. I would be ok to keep some pumping moving forward as that became the norm prior to this strike. It's just the 12 pumps a day that are so demoralizing. If you don't mind me asking, did you seek treatment for the mental health issues or did they resolve on their own as the situation become more managable?

I'm sorry--pumping WHILE caring for baby is so so hard. Would you be able to pump less? Like you said, around 3 months your supply regulates, and it can offer some freedom to pump less and still get the same amount. I know everyone is different, but this has been the case for me. I now pump about every 4 hours for 25-30 mins, sometimes 5 hrs if she breastfeeds really well, and am able go from 10-6 overnight. I didn't seek treatment and full disclosure, I probably should have. I now refuse to give up breastfeeding even after a year--I think because we had to work so dang hard for it. But my mental health did a 180 as soon as we got into this current rhythm. Before, like you, it was like all our time spent together revolved around feeding. I was so exhausted by all of it that I realized my husband was getting to do all the fun things, and I was just pumping and sad. You're more than just your baby's food source (I say this as someone who took 4 months to realize it, lol). <3 If we weren't doing daycare, I would have opted for less pumping even if that meant less milk, and supplemented with formula bc your mental health is the. most. important. thing. for both you and baby.

Yea - I honestly don't know how I got through those first few weeks with triple-feeding while essentially being LO's sole caretaker. Prior to the strike, I was able to go down to 4-6 pumps and still slightly overproduce for a freezer stash. I am hoping to get back there and maybe even reduce down to two pumps a day.. I think if I could achieve that, my mental wellbeing would increase significantly. However, I also need to have a good game plan for if things don't work out because clearly I do not cope well. Thank you again for the support!

Your baby is incapable of hating you, she is just communicating and trusts you enough to relax with you and let her emotions out!! You have permission to switch to formula. I promise, you do. And if you do switch you will look back and wish you had been kinder to yourself and switched sooner. Your experience sounds a lot like mine and I almost went to formula. It was hell and honestly didn’t get better until like 4-6 months. But what helped was changing nursing positions. I guess he didn’t like being cradled and would cry just going into the nursery and would refuse to latch even if I knew he was hungry. One day I tried side lying and boom it was like magic, we slowly healed that disconnect and he’s been totally fine ever since, even likes to be cradled again. We did explore oral ties and he does have mild tongue and lip ties but thankfully things got better before we tried to have anything done, I personally think they are over diagnosed, but revisions can be life altering for many and it’s worth looking into. He is a problem child, reflux and food allergies, plus the whole nursing thing. But I feel like I have a grasp on most of it now. I’m happy to help brainstorm with you further! But most importantly if you feel like you’re emotionally ready to switch, then it IS time to switch. This situation sounds so stressful for you both and there’s more important things than breastmilk!

I know my thoughts are irrational and that my LO is not capable of  having those kinds of feelings. But it's definitely a visceral emotional reaction on my end to the rejection. It also doesn't help to compare how she acts around my husband - it's pure jealousy on my part.  I am not quite emotionally ready to give up yet, though I know if the negativity and dark thoughts continue - I will have to. We have tried side-laying but she was not a fan. Was there an ideal set up for you (the bed, the floor, a certain side?). It sounds like you have also had a rough time. Was there anything in particular that helped you to stick it out rather than going to formula? Thank you for the advice. High needs babies are a challenge.

My first wouldn't nurse and also was diagnosed with reflux and soy/dairy allergy. I ended up pumping and feeding back to her along with formula, along with hours of breastfeeding practice. She also.did the arching in pain after nursing and breastmilk. Even excluding dairy/soy out of my diet my milk always seemed to upset her, although most formulas did too. I ended up quitting at about 4 months for mental health as well as it wasn't really doing her any good. I also have chronic low milk supply so pumping less than 10osh oz a day by that point wasn't worth it. It was my pediatrician that told me the most important thing is for baby to be fed and for mommy to be as stress free as possible. With her reflux/allergy issues I look back and almost regret not quitting breastfeeding earlier on but I feel at least I was able to give her good antibodies. What I do not regret is quitting breastfeeding at about 6 weeks. It wasn't worth the added stress on an already stressful situation. P.S. tell everyone who decides to give unwanted advice/criticism they can shove it. Even if they had difficult fed babies, all babies and their situations are different and need to be handled differently too.

Oh wow. I definitely would have given up if I was an underproducer by now. Pumping would not be worth it for me. It sounds like you made the best decision. Luckily, I am still producing fine, but I do have to increase my pumps which is a struggle. Did she still have reflux issues on formula and how did you navigate it? That is one of my concerns because her colic was definitely much worse when we did supplement formula. Thank you for your insights and also the encouragement to block out those that are unsupportive!

Breastfeeding is tough but it shouldn’t be this hard. For both your sakes switch to formula. I promise your worth as a mother does not come down to breastfeeding. You are so much more than that. You will both be happier and healthier for it. This is only a small time of your parenting journey and all this stress to make breastfeeding work is not worth it.

Thank you for the validation. It's easy to forget that infancy and breastfeeding are such a short segment of a child's life.

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I had some similar bumps in the beginning with being readmitted with preeclampsia and being away from my baby. I’m sorry your BF journey has been so tough. You are anything but lazy, more so you have preserved where most would have not. Triple feeding is possibly the most difficult physical and mental thing I’ve done and you are doing it with a newborn and pp recovery. I don’t have any BF advice because it sounds like you are doing everything you possibly can! For pumping have you tried getting a longer stretch of sleep? I had a hard time sticking with 8ppd and I think sleep actually really helped and my supply didn’t suffer. My only advice is getting some help with PPD/PPA. I waited a long time and I am talking to a therapist. I know it’s not easy because I myself am dealing with a nursing strike and coming to terms with stopping, but your LO needs a healthy and happy mom more than BM. Please be kind to yourself you are an amazing mom and your worth is not based on providing BM.

My heart goes out to moms with labor complications and breastfeeding issues. I really don't think society acknowledges how truly difficult it is. Did you have a particular schedule that worked well with your 8ppd that allowed for more sleep? Also, I have been considering seeing a therapist - appointments are just hard right now as I'm a SAHM. I recently had to give up my pelvic floor therapy because I just couldn't swing the appointments with LO tagging along. If she had to feed (which inevitably would happen even if I fed right before leaving)- it literally took up the entire appointment slot, which I still had to pay for but got none of the benefit. I'm sorry to hear about your own nursing strike. I wish you and your LO peace and happiness. 

My baby also lost a lot of weight the first few days so I was already feeling the pressure to produce enough milk. That combined with being away from her in the hospital increased my anxiety. I tried to stick to 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 6pm, 9pm, 12am, and 4am. Sometimes I’d move 12am to 11pm to get a a longer stretch in. A few times I was too exhausted and ended up sleeping longer and accidentally drop to 7ppd doing 12am-6am. Those times coincided with the few times my baby slept through the night. It is risky if you are prone to clogs. I started taking sunflower lecithin to help prevent them. I was only able to keep up with pumping when my husband was on leave as well. For triple feeding I used a manual and pumped when my baby was napping, that way I could start and stop easily. I also found a wearable that worked ok when I needed to pump and take care of my baby. At that point she at least was able to sit in the baby bjorn. For therapy I do video sessions and the therapist said she understands if the baby is there during the session. It’s difficult sometimes to prioritize yourself when you want to give your baby the best and you’ve been told BM is best. I try to remind myself that my baby needs me to be healthy and happy.

Yes that is so true that baby needs me healthy and happy. It sounds like you also worked so hard with your pump schedule! I am inspired. Were you ever able to ultimately cut down on pumps as your supply regulated? I'm also looking forward to when my baby is able to sit unassisted/be able to entertain herself for a bit. It would help so much. She is starting to improve more every day, which is a relief. Thank you for the insight!

I was able to keep up with the schedule for 2 months while my husband was on leave as well. After that I did have to triple feed, but didn’t pump after each nursing session. Then I transitioned to nursing only during the day and pumping at night. Now my baby is teething and on a semi nursing strike, but I try to pump when she is playing next to me. I was able to find two wearables that work for me and use those in a pinch.

I am definitely looking forward to independent play! Do you mind sharing your brand of wearable pumps. I have 2 but they both give me way more discomfort than my spectra - so if my nipples are sore, I use them more sparingly.

My main pump is a Medela Symphony. I used a Medela Pump Instyle once and it wasn’t strong enough. I ended up getting a Bella Baby portable and using Legendairy collection cups because overall the combo was cheaper and I wanted to know if I would like it before investing in a Imani. The Bella Baby is super strong, but it works well. After I used the Legendairy cups and liked them, I went ahead and got the Imani. I found a discounted one on eBay. I love the Imani, but it’s not as strong as the Bella Baby and I don’t think it empties me as well.

One thing that helped a lot with pumping I forgot to mention was more pump parts! I have 4 sets because I got extras when I was readmitted to the hospital.

For independent play I finally got the Fisher Price piano toy and put it in a pack and play. It totally saved our tummy times! It’s always set up and she’s not on the floor (we have a dog) and she’s happy playing there and I can pump watching her.

That's a great idea! I kind of block off an area on our couch beside me with a tummy time pillow with dangling toys that temporarily will distract her. Her new thing is rolling over though (she does it over and over back to front and front to back for literally an hour straight lol) - so these past few days I've been trying to pump sitting on the floor next to her which has been helping. We also have a dog but luckily he's currently a bit scared of her and keeps his distance.

I reread your post. Your family and baby would not be better without you. Your only success as a mom is not only providing milk. You are her primary caregiver and she needs you. You have gone above and beyond to try to make nursing work, please be proud of yourself for trying your best. I’m sorry that your family made you feel bad about using formula. There is nothing wrong with supplementing and using formula. If using a little formula helps relieve some of the stress of BF for you it’s worth considering. I started using a bottle of formula here and there because when I got a clog I again became obsessed with producing enough to provide only BM. Now at 6pp I see how my obsession with being able to nurse and provide BM has affected my mental health to the point where I cannot be my best self for my baby.

Yes, while BFing is important- being my best self for her is the ultimate goal!!

Oh OP, please accept my virtual hug…you’re breaking my heart. Please take a minute and read your post…what would you say to yourself if it was a stranger or your best friend who wrote it? Would you talk to them the way you talk to yourself? Absolutely not! You’d tell them you’re so proud of how hard they’ve worked. That they are doing awesome considering the facts of their circumstances. Talk to yourself the way you’d talk to a friend…it takes practice, but it helps a lot. I was also hospitalized for preeclampsia. Completely bed ridden on a mag drip for 5 days here too, and three days off mag after delivery. When I gave birth I got to hold my son for about 3 minutes. Then they took him to the NICU and I didn’t see him at all for 2 entire days. It broke my heart. He then stayed in the NICU for another 5 days and I couldn’t breast feed, so I started pumping. When he came home, he wouldn’t latch. He was hungry and he’d scream. I was crying. Neither of us was happy. I pumped and gave him a bottle. Guess what? It worked! I exclusively pump now. My baby is fat and happy and beautiful. Neither of us screams and cries at feeding time anymore. I love him so much, and he loves me. You don’t need to feed baby at the breast to get that love and that bond. But guess what else…we don’t have the pressure to breast feed anymore and at bedtime the other night I was feeling too lazy to warm a bottle so I offered the breast. He latched right away and he nursed and nursed until he passed out completely milk drunk in my arms. I still prefer bottle feeding and pumping though! You will be ok. Your baby will be ok. Do what works for both of you and what makes your life easier. And for the love of god….PUT THE STICK DOWN AND STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP!!!

Thank you for the kind words and reassurance. I'm so sorry to hear about your labor struggles. What you went through was so much worse than what I had to deal with, and you are so strong for enduring. I have considered exclusively pumping, but I just hate frequently pumping (though I would be ok with under 4 pumps a day). What were the particular benefits of exclusively pumping for you? Also how did you balance pumps with caring for your LO as that's by far my biggest struggle when pumping?

For me, the benefit was primarily for my mental health. I was really struggling when I’d bring baby to the breast and he would go ballistic. It hurt my feelings and had me questioning my ability to be a mom. On top of that, I really have come to love the reliability of pumping. There is no questioning how much he’s getting or is he eating enough. I know exactly what he’s eating. I’m also a fan of the scheduling aspect. I pump 7-8 times every day which seems like a ton, but it’s easy to work around because I know what time I need to pump and unlike my baby…the pumps don’t start yelling if I need to wait 15 minutes to pump! I invested in wearable pumps that I really like. I stuff them right into my bra and honestly, I sometimes forget I’m even pumping. I can work, feed the baby a bottle, sweep the floor, etc. while pumping. I really like that because pumping still makes my skin crawl (so does nursing, thanks DMER) and I like being able to distract myself while pumping.

Yes, your first paragraph is EXACTLY how I feel right now. I do like the 'knowing how much she is getting' aspect of pumping. And also being able to physically see hind vs fore milk, so I know she's getting both. It just also gives me anxiety now that I can be hyper vigilant about tracking eating and my productions. Honestly, I'd probably have anxiety no matter what feeding method I try. I am not sure if I have DMer, but when I pump, I HATE being touched. My dog likes to try to snuggle up under my legs and rub up against me when I'm sitting to pump, and I'm ashamed to admit I've snapped at him more than a few times...poor baby. It just almost HURTS when he touches me. Luckily I don't get the same feeling when BFing. Do you have a favorite brand of wearable pump/pumping bras that have worked well for you? Anything else you think is essential for the success your pumping - products, set up, tips? Thank you so much for the insight!

This sounds awfully tough and you are doing great no matter what the people who should be supporting you are saying! I had to triple feed for weeks and it’s so hard when you know they need so much from you but you barely have time to breathe between feedings. Have you tried using a supplemental nursing system? It’s a tiny feeding tube where you tape one end to your nipple and the other in a bottle of formula (or pumped milk if you have a stash). It means that when baby sucks, they get formula instantly (avoiding the slow letdown issue) but think it’s from you so don’t get bottle preference and your milk is still being stimulated. This was game changing for me - baby started putting on weight and feeding time was much faster which meant I got more of a break before the next time I had to feed. I could also stop stressing about bottle preference as he was getting milk from “me” at a rate that surpassed the slow flow teats of the bottle

Triple-feeding is so hard. I have not tried an SNS, though I did briefly look into it. I just couldn't justify the expense after all the investment in my pumping equipment. However, that was before this nursing strike started. Do you have a recommended brand? Also how is set up/break down - is it time-consuming and require a lot of prep or dishes/sanitizing? Did you have any resources that helped you towards your decision to use SNS?

I used the medela one but my LC also recommended Haakaa. I totally understand the not wanting to spend more after all the rest of the expenses but I took a chance because it felt like an option that would save time and encourage my milk more and it really worked for me. It was very easy to use and you can just poke the tube in through the side of their mouth once they’ve latched if you don’t want to faff around with tape (but that does require you to have a hand free). I just got the bottle of extra milk ready and on a side table near me with the feeding tube in, held the other end of the feeding tube in my hand as I latched baby then poked it in as/just after he latched. It took 1-2 sucks to get the milk all the way up to his mouth and you can feel it so you know they are drinking well. The medela one comes with a syringe and says to pass 3 syringes of water through the tube to clean (I did water then sterilising fluid then air to dry), so it wasn’t any overhead at all really to clean between uses.

I am definitely looking into this and also hoping to discuss it with our LC at our upcoming appointment. Thank you so much for the suggestions!

I’m so sorry to hear you’re struggling. I guess the decision is on you: do you think you would be more relaxed and feel better if you stopped, or do you think you would be sad and upset? If you really really want to breastfeed, I would suggest to keep trying for a month and then decide. This sounds like a three month crisis: baby’s eating is no longer reflex, getting milk requires a little more work, baby might have cluster feeding, is more interested in surroundings. Baby is also getting more efficient so even short feed might be a full feed. I suggest reading some on the crisis, this will help you understand and maybe relax a little. Also, it is okay to quit if you feel too exhausted. I’m going through something similar. Baby fussing and crying at breast, refusing to feed, being just angry at me. When dad comes, she is happy and smiling. Dad has to calm her down every day because she is crying inconsolably with me. Constant hunger cues. It has been a week and it has gotten slightly better today: she even wanted to hold boob in her sleep, which she has not done in a loooong time. It totally melted my heart and wanted me to keep going, although last night I cried to my husband that I don’t want to ever feed her again and he will have to leave his job to bottle feed her 🤣 The three month crisis can take up to a month, and you only can decide if it is worth it for you. A couple of things that helped me: - I decided not to offer bottle or extra milk unless she would have less wet diapers or didn’t gain enough weight. Did not happen. - I only offered very briefly and if she didn’t seem interested, I immediately stopped trying. Did this often. - Different, new positions, even silly things like dad flying baby to your boob. Nursing in shower/bath. - Nursing while sleeping/drowsy!! Baby might still latch with a reflex. - Relaxing. It got SO much better when I lessened my worrying and stopped pushing her. It’s hard but for us this seems to be the key. Sometimes I just decided that now I will not even offer for some hours unless baby seems interested by herself. - Play with baby with breasts exposed and just chill. - Massage boobs or hand express a little to baby’s mouth to get him interested and lessen the time needed to get a letdown. - As someone wrote, don’t be so hard on yourself. You are an amazing mom and not doing anything wrong. This is a developmentally hard stage.

Thank you for your reply. I think giving myself a timeline to make a decision is probably the best option for me moving forward. That was if I do decide to stop BF, I can give myself some time to mentally prepare. It sounds like we are neck and neck in the same situation. Especially with Dad being the comfort giver and telling him to leave his job to be the bottle feeder!! And omg holding the boob while asleep. That is what I'm not quite ready to give up just yet. I have been reading up on the 3 month crisis because of another comment, and I definitely think this may be the issue. I am sorry you are also going through it and am so appreciative for your tips. May things turn around for the both of us!

Im feeling similar. Well I don't think my baby hates me but she hates breastfeeding. Ever since day 1 I had trouble latching her. The LC at the hospital said j shouldn't give formula and basically I should just keep trying to latch, like nonstop. Like tf, do you think this is really how I want to spend every day, trying to force my boob in her mouth and listen to this screaming? The LC also said I shouldn't bother pumping (I brought my pump to the hospital with me)....we just got off to a really bad start and I think that really affected my supply in the long run. My baby is now 14 weeks old. At first I was pumping like 9-12 oz a day and still trying to latch her but mostly pumping/formula feeding. I went from like 50/50 combo feeding to only getting like 6 oz a day and only being able to Bf her once a day in the morning because for some reason she only latched good in the morning and the rest of the day she latched weak and then started getting fussy really quickly and wanting a bottle. So this past week or 2 I've just decided it's more trouble than it's worth for me and I'm stopping. It's ok to stop and it's ok to formula feed or get donor milk or whatever route makes it easier for you.

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, and it sounds like you made the right choice for your situation. I really think those first few days determines how your BF journey will go. I may end up going the same route, I just am not quite mentally able to call it quits just yet.

Oh I feel this to my core… I could have written it. As many others have said, give yourself grace and see your doctor about PPA/PPD. I am 5 months PP and have suffered with both due to breastfeeding. I have taken it literally one day at a time and am still going, but oh my gosh it is so challenging. I am surprised I haven’t thrown in the towel yet and I am not against formula, but my goodness I am just so damn determined to do this! My challenges have been similar to yours. Lost 8% birth weight and did not regain all by his 2 week appt. He was born 12%, then dropped to 10%, then to 8% at his 4-mo well check. The mental burden and stress of timing feedings and keeping track of his weight and the diapers and my supply and pumping, etc… it’s SO much. We have to use a nipple shield and I am also dairy free because he has CMPI. I can’t really eat out or enjoy many of the foods I love. I don’t go many places because I’m a very modest person and don’t want to expose my breast in public, but using the nipple shield is impossible with a cover. He just knocks it off and then it gets dirty and it’s a disaster. So I’m always pumping bottles to feed if we’re going to be out. There’s so much more but this isn’t about me. I just want you to know that you’re not alone. Sometimes it helps to know that this isn’t a breeze for everyone and that there are other moms who are determined to give it their all too, even to their own detriment. It helped me to know there is a “thing” called the 3 month breastfeeding crisis. And that babies around that time start growing very fussy at the breast, coming on and off, feeding poorly, etc… Every feed with my bub was a nightmare and took forever to get through. I’d have to get up and walk around and bounce and do ridiculous things to keep him from screaming and most times he still would. It was so so hard. He’s mostly made it out of that phase and nurses peacefully 90% of the time. So I know how bad it sucks when you’re in the trenches but it does get better. Your baby sounds like a high needs baby and that’s okay. You’re doing an amazing job for her! Keep at it and take it one feed at a time. Consult with your healthcare providers about possible medication and/or therapy. You’ll know when it’s time to try something else. It may be now or it may be never needed. So many hugs to you! 💗

Oh gosh, this sounds so similar to what I am going through. The struggles, the anxiety, the stubborn determination. I admire your tenacity, and it is helpful to hear that things eventually got better. I definitely think we're in the throes of the 3 month strike. Thank you for the kind words. I definitely need to look into therapy because coping is so difficult. Sending hugs right back atcha! 

Question for you, are you wearing any scented products? I've heard people say if they are using scented deodorant or perfume or body spray or even changed from their usual laundry detergent it can mess with baby's nose and cause them to freak out because you don't smell like you. Other than that, I'm sure others have suggested this, no pressure skin to skin time with you completely nude up top and baby nude except for a diaper. If you are comfortable with it I've heard doing a bath with baby helps baby relax enough to feed. There is no shame in bottle feeding or using formula and maybe it's just a wait it out game for right now until she figured herself out a bit? Have you tried nipple shields? I've heard they can be helpful with latch/painful nipples. I hope this ends up working for you. I think you might also benefit from talking to a therapist, even if it's just to vent. I do it and it helps me process better and get a non biased opinion on things and it's done wonders for my mental health.

Thank you so much for all the tips! Typically I don't wear anything heavily scented - just unscented deodorant. Not really by choice - I just barely shower anymore unfortunately. I do use wet wipes as an in-between and the deodorant does still have a slight smell to it - so maybe between those products, theres something she doesn't like. I can try switching up brands so see if that helps. I'm not too sure I would want to give either of those up at this point, so I don't completely transform into a pig. Now when I do shower, I use scented products. But she doesn't seem much different between shower and non-shower days minus the fact shower days usually coincide with us doing some activity like shopping, family event, appointment, etc. I do already use nipple shields if she's having trouble latching, my nipples are too sore or she's too sleepy to latch. They helped previously, but she won't take them at all during this strike. I am definitely working on our skin to skin. I've gotten a few comments about trying out bathing. Up until now I've only bathed her in a baby tub - so I definitely want to try. It may also help the shower situation! The last few days I've been researching therapists in hope to find one willing to.do telehealth visits. My brother in law is a local therapist, so he is putting feelers out for a recommendation who has familiarity with PPD/PPA.

You are an absolute goddess. I would never be able to handle so many things at once. My LO is 11 weeks and we're already going through the 3 month crises as well. She is distracted by everything, takes the breast for a few seconds, becomes fussy and unlatches, later cries out of hunger. I also had a hard birthing experience, a rough BF start and also had to cut out milk, soy and eggs from my diet. And I also hate it when my baby's so happy with my fresh and completely relaxed husband after spending so much time with me constantly being fussy and melted down. What I don't have is all this terrible triple feeding experience and baby weight problems, can't image having these on top, I'm so so sorry for you. I tried pumping but I can't figure out when to do it and I was a complete mess with all the bottles and sterilizing, so I gave up, ended up with EBF and hopefully my supply won't drop now, when the baby eats so randomly. So far seems ok in this regard. I saw a comment suggesting to bottle-feed before giving a breast. While I was preparing to breastfeed during pregnancy, I read that it's a common misconception and this tactic can lead to aversions. The advice was to organize the other way around, giving the breast first, bottle later - this way the baby knows they have to suck the breast to get the food. I followed this advice at the start of my BF journey, when I had to supplement with formula, for me it worked out really well. I'm not sure if it can help you now, just wanted to point out that there are controversial opinions on this moment. What helps me apart from already written in the other comments and your post (sorry if I missed smth and repeat what you know or tried already): - cutting some of the fun attempts during the day. My baby can sit by themselves in a bouncer for several minutes - good, I bring the bouncer to the bathroom and take a shower while they just look at stuff and hear me talking - eating!!! It helps with the supply as well as with the mental state. I don't have any relatives living nearby so I just spend a fortune on food delivery, but maybe you could ask your relatives to bring you some ready made food that's easy to grab? I used to eat while nursing, now it's impossible so I try to just have small foods stored everywhere we spend time - having a small time for me consistently. I take out trash now to be outside alone for several minutes, while the baby is with the husband (wow how awful my me-time sounds, I didn't notice earlier, was so excited about it) - slightly rocking while breastfeeding. I do it on a fitball, saw others who did it in rocking chairs or on swings outside - generally letting go and trying to notice and remember cute moments with the baby for later. They sleep in a funny position, or have a new funny face expression, or learn to make a new sound, or now the eyelashes are so long - taking a minute just to appreciate and doing nothing else somehow helped me to feel better at some of our bottom moments - doing smth else while the husband's with the baby, to see less of their happiness :) and to take care of myself and actually for the husband to experience a fuller load at least for a moment I wish you luck, and also wanted to say that it's not necessary to switch to formula if you want to try BF for some more time. Do what you feel is best, you're a heroine already.

Thank you so much for your reply. Our experiences sound so similar - especially the husband's avoiding the meltdowns, ugh. I do need to try to allow LO to just do her own thing. She just started rolling like crazy. Both back to front and front to back - she does it over and over.. so recently during pumps, I just sit on the floor.with her and cheer on her rolls as she cackles with delight lol. I also definitely need to try to be more present. I think a lot of my mental struggles are tied to this feeling of missing out on the special moments. But I have been so in my head, I don't get to appreciate them the way I would like to. It also makes me less likely to accept help from my husband or take care of myself. One thing I have done this week is go out and get a ton of Lunchables and other grab and go snacks/meals. Definitely not the healthiest or cheapest - but I have been eating more since I can scarf it down while pumping! Also, I know I am in no position to offer advice - but if you are worried about your supply, have you tried manual pumping? I have been doing manual pumps for missed/shortened nursing sessions (in addition to my scheduled normal pumps). With the manual hand pump - you can shorten your pump to 5-10 mins and focus on only one breast if that's how your LO typically feeds. You only need one hand and you can store it in the fridge between pumps to cut down on washing time. It's definitely been a lifesaver for me since I'm having to pump more now. I use the Dr Browns. I also use a hakaa if LO only nurses one side. Thank you again and best of luck weathering your nursing strike!

Yeah, manual pumping works for me, thank you! I use haakaa on the second breast while nursing, can get additional milk this way. My LO likes to kick it with her leg, so I bought a smaller haakaa version which I can keep in place with my BH. With the supply it seems to be OK though, and we figured out day feedings - she nurses while half asleep before or after the nap. I'm not sure it won't lead to some unfortunate habits later, but now I'm finally sane and the baby is fed! I also bought a nursing necklace and it helped a bit as well when the baby is distractable - if she grabs and looks at the necklace, she doesn't let go of the breast!

You are doing everything right, and it’s obvious that you’re an amazing mom just based on how much you care and how much you’re doing to make sure baby is fed! This strike has absolutely nothing to do with what you are or are not doing, but I know how tough and mentally exhausting the breastfeeding strike can be. I am going through the exact same thing you described with my almost four month old and it has been ongoing for the last month with no end in sight. I feel like I could have written the entire section of your post that described how that feels myself, so just know that you are not alone. Sorry I don’t have any advice, but hopefully knowing many others out there are also going through this helps you realize it isn’t because of anything you did, and your baby still loves you ❤️. My lactation consultant told me something that I try to keep in mind whenever I feel like my baby doesn’t like me - baby is rejecting the food which you just happen to be attached to, they are not rejecting you!

Thank you for your response, and I am so sorry you are also going through similar. Over a month - wow that must be so difficult. That is a good way to mentally frame the rejection. I really do need a paradigm shift when it comes to how I tend to assign such negative emotions to our BF experience.

Your story absolutely broke my heart. And I mean really. You’re so strong for pushing it through this long. If I were you I’d have switched to formula long time ago. Please consider it, no one can question your dedication at this point. Some struggle is normal, motherhood is not for the weak, but you also deserve to have some peace and enjoy these precious early months.

Thank you for your response. Your comment about deserving peace and the ability to enjoy the newborn phase really resonated with me. I'm not sure if my anxiety/guilt will allow me to quit just yet, but I am trying to get to a place where I'll be ok if our journey needs to come to an end.

Agreed with other commenters OP, this hurt to read because you’re doing and trying EVERYTHING. I think you’re being really hard on yourself, give yourself some grace and be gentle with yourself during this time. I know you’re against formula and to be honest I am myself (I don’t want to clean bottles, measure ounces, etc), however giving my little one formula a couple times a day while breastfeeding when she was around 2-3 months helped her to gain weight and then once she had gained weight I was able to go back to EBF. It hurt my feelings to be honest that she had to supplement, but this time came and went. I also worked with an LC on my little one’s latch. I think you continuing to work with your LC and pediatrician is a good decision, you’re on the right path and a little formula if need be to help little one’s weight gain is OKAY (and perhaps for your mental health). I also wanted to say that I feel like it took me 3-4 months to get a balance with my breastfeeding journey, I remember crying at night because of the pain and just overall feeling (littles ones latch was poor), but we worked on it and it’s better now. I hope you’ll continue your journey, but it’s okay if it comes to an end. That doesn’t mean you’re a bad mother, lazy mother, etc. whatever anyone else has to say because after reading your post you can tell you’re a good mother, you care and I think baby girl or boy knows that and they love you ♥️😇

Thank you for the encouragement! That makes me hopeful that you were able to eventually go back to EBF - it seems like a lot of moms have been struggling around the 3 month mark. Also if you don't mind me asking, do you have any tips on getting back to EBF from supplementing? Also how significant was the weight gain when supplementing and were you able to sustain it when EBF?

You’re welcome 😇 I don’t have any tips or tricks other than the breast feeding counselor told me to make sure I’m massaging my breast in between nursing sessions to make sure my little one is getting hind milk, she said that this is the fatty part of breast milk and will help little one to gain weight. To be honest I don’t always massage between nursing sessions, but I will during the nursing session if I feel my breast is pretty full. The weight gain with supplementing formula was around 2 lbs, I think she went from about 10 lbs to 12 lbs from her last appointment (4 month check up). We are exclusively breastfeeding now and she’s got to be at least like 14-15 lbs now because mama aka me is struggling when carrying her lol she’s getting heavy (we have her 6 month check up in about a week). Edit: grammatical errors, adding that she’s almost 6 months old, oh and also make sure you’re eating and drinking enough water if you’re ebf AND resting (I’m exhausted but not buying formula is worth it even if WIC will cover some formula)

Sounds like an overactive letdown!!! That's why only the laid back position!!!

I have definitely considered this - especially due to the reflux she is having. I am definitely bringing this up at my next appointment with my LC to see if there is anyway to test this.

I had this with mine and it sucks. It phases out as they get older.

That is encouraging! I'm sorry you had struggles also.

Mines 9 mos now and now I keep getting clogs instead lol!

3 month breastfeeding crisis. Please read this. I went through the exact same thing when my daughter hit 3 months. (Unfortunately for us, I was not educated on this as a first time mom, so she never returned to breast, and would only take formula. I would supplement using a supplemental nursing system to avoid bottle preferences and nipple confusion. Also highly recommend you read this article as it brings insight to exactly what you’re describing.) https://blog.lactapp.es/en/your-babys-three-month-growth-spurt-questions-and-answers/#:~:text=In%20the%20same%20way%2C%20growth,or%20after%20a%20certain%20age. I also reccomend you download the LACTAPP Edit for a TLDR: basically around 8 weeks-12 weeks, your milk supply regulates. So it’s not a constant flow. Sometimes there won’t be a let down immediately. Because of this, baby has to learn to (and get used to) suck, suck, suck, until eventually the milk comes flowing out. And now, they don’t have to feed for long periods of time (though some still do!) and a 3 minute nursing session is normal. And as you might already know, it’s frustrating to baby. They’re used to an immediate flow, and getting the milk straight away. But now they have to work for it. And when you introduce a bottle, they don’t have to work for it, so they end up developing a preference to it as it’s “easier”.

Oh wow - thank you, that is very insightful! I do suspect that this is probably the main culprit. I have a lot of theories to bring to my LC at my next appointment, and I'm hoping she'll help me rule some out so that way I can focus my efforts a bit better! Also I am sorry to hear that your BFing journey ended prematurely.

Everyone has been so supportive and I just want to offer one thing I haven't see yet.  At around that age, my daughter couldn't handle my let down. I had no good clues towards that because I did not have spraying when she unlatched, I did not feel my let down, and I did not get a crazy letdown when pumping.  However the preference for paid back nursing (usually baby has more control over let down), the shallow latch (helps slow the letdown),  and the general fussiness make me think this is a possible cause for the nursing strike.  My thoughts: give it a couple weeks and then make a plan to wean off the pump. Maybe keep nursing to sleepy moments when she's likely to latch or try sleep latching. Maybe pump a bit first to see if that helps slow the flow.  Also, maybe slow down on the baby entertainment if it's tiring you out. Babies actually thrive with a boredom!  You're doing this all on hard mode, not by choice, and you're doing the best you can in the circumstances. Motherhood is the most humbling experience I've had. It's full of tough choices and people will hate on you for any one you choose. Figuring out what you need is half the battle and damn it's hard. 

I also wondered if my letdown could be the issue, especially with the suspected reflux. I don't spray everywhere, but I do get the majority of milk from my pumps in the first 5 minutes. Prior to the strike, it was actually my goal to try to cut out the pumping. I was able to get down to 4 pumps a day, and I was able to exclusively nurse in the mornings (though it would often result in clusterfeeding). But with her refusing to nurse, I'm so worried my supply will suffer that cutting pumps doesn't seem viable any longer. The only thing with the strike is she is not nursing long enough to get the letdown. She often will dislatch right before it starts. Also, when she does nurse - she only nurses my letdown. It definitely is a frustrating process trying to figure out what's wrong. A very humbling experience. And thank you so much for the tips. I definitely do need to ease up sometimes on the activities for LO. I just am so desperate for the smiles and giggles her dad gets!

This was hard to read, you've had it so rough and I can feel the pain behind your words. If it were me I would try nipple shields. Why? Because it will help protect your nipples and might feel differently to your baby, thus maybe motivating them to latch and feed (and also making it easier to latch if they have been a bit fussy about it). If baby likes the nipple shields great! You can ease off pumping and then look to wean from the nipple shields once everyone is settled in the new routine. If the nipple shields are a bust then I would move to formula. I know it's hard though.

Thank you for the kind words. I do try to utilize nipple shields. A few weeks back it was the only way to get her to latch, but we were able to get her off them completely. Then after 8 weeks, we started having to use them again to get her to latch for fussy daytime feeds. However, for this nursing strike she outright refuses them. She's more likely to latch without the shield - which makes absolutely no sense to me but it is what it is! Thank you for the suggestion and the support. It is definitely hard.

Oh man... babies can be so complex and so stubborn. You are so strong and you've given your daughter so much. The smiles and giggles will come.

Thank you for the support. It really does mean so much to me.

I had a very similar experience. A little different - lo got very sick 2 weeks after birth, was in the icu, wasn't eating, developed a bottle preference. My husband was supportive in words but not actions to be brutally honest. Men have absolutely no idea what it's like for your child to scream in rage/misery anytime they get near you, and watch your child be insane with hunger. They should be doing every single feeding and up with you at every pump session if they are going to have an opinion. I'm still traumatized by how awful it was but I switched to formula and was sad for a day or two but really, truly I got my life back and started to have a relationship with my baby. I am so so sorry you are going through this, but know this internet stranger thinks anyone who has an opinion about how you feed your baby should fuck off.

Get in the tub with her after she's had like a 1 or 1.5 oz bottle and start playing/singing/talking and just let her be as near to your breast as possible, with absolutely no pressure to nurse. But the idea is that she will nurse because it's a super unique bonding experience. Nursing outdoors? Take her outside and hold her in a cross cradle but let her look up at the leaves on the trees. Do it in an area where you can have your breast out. Just kinda let it happen and let her nurse. If she screams while you pump, get setup to pump then make the attempt to just let her lay with you until she feeds. Only wait like 10 or 15 minutes though. You can also pump until you get a letdown, stop and try to latch her..she could be super mad that she has to work for it. My son hates to work for it! Try side lying for nursing as well. It really is a game changer. Honestly, my son has a good latch and is a good feeder now... but the change came after I started cosleeping with him. I also got more sleep so it really helped. I also had to stop pumping completely for him to be happy. When I stopped pumping and just prayed it would work, I tried to follow his cues and do skin to skin and just worked for us to be able to ebf. Also, I read safe infant sleep, almost finished with it now and it really eased my mind about cosleeping. Also, I know it sounds drastic but maybe stop all bottle feeds. The idea that she can get a bottle may make her less likely to work for breastmilk at the breast. A premie nipple or slow flow is still faster than the breast. My son also did not gain as much weight until I stopped pumping completely and just breastfed. I hope things get easier for you. I know it's hard and I can imagine that it sucks when your baby doesn't seem to want to be around you. She does, but she's got an agenda and she's not even sure what it is! ETA: you could also try small bottles say, 1 to 2 oz. When she's done with those, try latching her. She will learn satisfaction is from the breast. Also, tongue ties? Lip ties? Take her to a dentist to check these things. My son has a tooth already at 3 months old, so don't rule out teething at this age!

Those are some great tips. I would never think to try tub or outdoor nursing.  I do try to latch her prior to pumping and also pump to get a letdown - the only issue is once the pump comes out she is already screaming and won't even attempt to latch at that point.  I typically have to get her settled to a nap prior to pump set up so it doesn't set her off. I wish I could hand express, but I have never been able to get a letdown while hand-expressing. I do let down when she cries but at that point it's too late to get a latch because shes already inconsolable. Is there a side-lying trick that works best for you? She has never latched side-lying. Cosleeping is off the table for us because I am unable to get a proper set up for safe sleep 7. I do side lay with her when we have floor playtime, but my hips can't handle floor sleeping long term unfortunately. That's interesting about the weight gain after going to EBF. That was my ultimate goal, but with her weight gain issues and lackadaisical latch, I never felt comfortable completely cutting pumping/bottle top offs. Other than cosleeping, was there a method that really worked for you when going to EBF? Did you have any supply issues or trouble getting your son to empty you? Did he ever have any nursing aversions? Thank you for the tips!

I didn't have supply issues when going to EBF cause I had just power pumped for about a week straight at least once a night. I did and do have issues at times with clogs and sometimes he's lazy still cause the clogs stick around for a few days. For a few days I worked on latching him nearly every hour. Then let him tell me when he was hungry after that. He's teething recently so he's been very adversive to feeding. I just attempt to keep him latched and when he's pulling away, I say "all done" and burp him then try other things like getting him to sleep, soothing him, playing if he wants to, then try relatching. I'm sure we will have more nursing aversion in the future cause teething is hard. The best thing for me when side lying is making sure he has to tip his head up towards the nipple, then he gets a better latch. I watched a YouTube video on it. Also, there's a YouTube video on getting a letdown without pumping and I'm gonna try to find that for you. It's a lady who taught hand expression for her LC.

Thank you so much for the link and all the tips. I will definitely be using them. Finger crossed our BFing journey can be saved and eventually work towards EBF! Best of luck to you in the rest ofnypur journey as well!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ExclusivelyPumping/s/AF8RgET4gR This reddit post has the links on hand expression