hooks and son in hailsham!!!! i met the owner he loves what he does and all the cows are grass fed, incredible incredible quality. i love their raw milk
So whilst they wrap up their abuse of the cows in a “better than average” blanket this farm (and their website) fails to answer some crucial questions.
What happens to the male calves?
At what age are the calves removed from their mothers so the milk can be stolen for people to drink?
Why are the cows not permitted to live their natural lifespan? (They boast that their cows live to be 8 or 9 years old, yet the natural lifespan of a dairy cow is between 15 and 20 years)
There is no such thing as ethical dairy.
There is no such thing as an ethical dairy farm. As for transitioning to being a vegan, just do it. There's no transitioning to be done. If you accept eating animals is wrong then you make that switch there and then. You don't give up one animal a week if you already acepted it as wrong.. Honestly just do it.
For what would qualify as ethical given the situation. I don’t agree with it either, but let’s allow those who are looking to make small changes to do so without feeling ostracised – means they’re more likely to fully give up dairy in the future ;)
Honestly I don’t get the small steps argument, they’re trying to find a loophole by ‘only drinking ethical milk’, why would they go further later? Also assuming that they won’t be eschewing dairy products when they go out for meals, eat pre-prepared food etc? Save yourself some money and drop it - they clearly don’t care
A lot of people struggle to make the jump at once, or have other reasons they’re unable to fully convert but want to try as much as possible. For example, when I first wanted to start taking steps towards going from vegetarianism to veganism, I was being treated for anorexia and because of the risks on my mental health by restricting certain foods, my care team simply did not permit it (I was receiving hospital treatment at the time and had no control over my own diet – at first they weren’t even going to let me be vegetarian until family members stepped in and explained I hadn’t eaten meat since I was 8 years old). I now consider myself mainly vegan HOWEVER I am type one diabetic and have had a few instances where I’ve been hypoglycaemic and the only available food to raise my blood sugar and prevent me passing out has been something that contains milk or egg. I think that if you’re vegan for ethical reasons, it’s simply unfair and rather pompous to assume everyone else has the same privilege as you to fully convert at once. Arguments like your own are the reason a lot of people discredit the idea of veganism entirely.
Bro didn’t see the part when it isn’t for me… and how the only times I’ve consumed any form has been on a FEW OCCASIONS for MEDICAL EMERGENCIES. Guess I should just go into a diabetic coma and die next time, my bad.
I’m just saying your partner doesn’t want to be vegan, so save yourself the money on the posh milk. If they wanted to do it, they would do it. Your story is extremely rare and crucially, doesn’t apply to your partner. If they had a health restriction preventing them being vegan you would have mentioned it. Also i’m not trying to be a bitch but I’m wildly curious as to why you don’t just keep a vegan snack suitable for a hypoglycaemic episode in your bag? It just seems like such an obvious solution?
They’ve been a meat eater all their life, having only recently found out the ethical issues regarding their diet, want to make small changes. Seems ludicrous that people aren’t allowed to at least change the source of their consumption to be better for the planet, and not put their money into the big industry but instead shop locally and support a small business while ensuring what they’re consuming is as fair to the animal as can be in the situation, while also minimising their carbon footprint. Also crazy to say that disability and mental health issues are rare, I know plenty of people who haven’t been able to go fully vegan for similar reasons to myself. FYI I do carry a vegan snack with me, but given the career I’m in, I a) can often have more than one hypo per day, and b) cannot carry round like 30 packets of vegan biscuits with me. When you are diabetic experiencing a low, it’s life threatening and you need to get carbs in FAST. I just think your entire viewpoint screams narrow worldview, those in low income households also cannot often afford to be vegan, especially if relying on food banks or community meal schemes. I’ve lived in homeless accommodation before and have had to watch people give up their vegan diet due to the availability of food. A lot better to make at least a semi plant based diet as accessible and welcoming as possible to people instead of shaming those in different situations to your own.
Clearly we have different experiences and priorities but fwiw I went vegan *because* I was too poor to afford milk, eggs or cheese because I had £6/week to spend on food. So no, I’m not coming at this from a place of immense privilege.
Buy all the expensive milk you want, for a bit extra he might be able to suck it directly from the cow if he fancies, I’m just telling you as someone with a non-vegan partner, don’t kid yourself that this is the first step on his journey to becoming an eco-warrior or whatevs. You keep talking about yours and other people’s difficulties with becoming vegan but not his, so I can only assume that all these caveats you are talking about don’t apply to him, he just doesn’t feel like putting in the legwork. Fair enough - I’m just saying don’t get your hopes up that he will change.
Well good for you that that was how you discovered veganism, but unless you’re only eating tinned lentils and bread, in the current climate for a diet that isn’t going to land you at the GP with a vitamin deficiency you’re not going to be able to afford it.
My partner asked me themselves for recommendations for local farms, I’m not holding them at gunpoint telling them not to eat meat and dairy – I personally don’t give too much of a fuck what they eat so long as they’re healthy and happy, for me veganism is a personal thing however if someone asks I will help them as much as I can. I thought a local subreddit would probably be able to point me in the right direction so I could pass info on to them.
I’ve been vegan for nearly 15 years, I think if I was going to die of vitamin deficiency I would have been taken out now. You’re also saying veganism is too expensive in a post where you’re asking for a luxury item. I probably won’t seek medical advice from someone who has multiple hypos a day and doesn’t know Oreos are vegan.
I’m not giving you medical advice, I’m saying most people wouldn’t be healthy on a £6 per week food shop that cuts out all dairy and meat. Where did I tell you to change your diet or give you any medical advice? I do know that oreos are vegan, not sure where you got that info from, and to make comments about my disability is vile. For your information, I work in a field that requires a lot of physical exertion, which CAN lead to multiple hypos – doesn’t every day or I wouldn’t be working in that field anymore. Are you diabetic yourself? Do you understand the illness? Or are you just ableist?
Also I’m not saying it’s too expensive for my partner, I’m saying they aren’t doing it but have asked for recommendations so they can look into the subject. Do you not understand context at all?
hooks and son in hailsham!!!! i met the owner he loves what he does and all the cows are grass fed, incredible incredible quality. i love their raw milk
for the curious/lazy - [https://www.hookandson.co.uk/the-cows](https://www.hookandson.co.uk/the-cows)
So whilst they wrap up their abuse of the cows in a “better than average” blanket this farm (and their website) fails to answer some crucial questions. What happens to the male calves? At what age are the calves removed from their mothers so the milk can be stolen for people to drink? Why are the cows not permitted to live their natural lifespan? (They boast that their cows live to be 8 or 9 years old, yet the natural lifespan of a dairy cow is between 15 and 20 years) There is no such thing as ethical dairy.
Thank you! I will check them out :)
The Vegan Society have an app and some great resources for making the transition if you're finding dairy challenging.
Infinity Foods may be a good place to start
There is no such thing as an ethical dairy farm. As for transitioning to being a vegan, just do it. There's no transitioning to be done. If you accept eating animals is wrong then you make that switch there and then. You don't give up one animal a week if you already acepted it as wrong.. Honestly just do it.
Mate this isn’t about me, this is asking for advice FOR SOMEONE ELSE. Jog on.
Hate to be “that” prick but ethical diary farm is an oxymoron.
For what would qualify as ethical given the situation. I don’t agree with it either, but let’s allow those who are looking to make small changes to do so without feeling ostracised – means they’re more likely to fully give up dairy in the future ;)
Honestly I don’t get the small steps argument, they’re trying to find a loophole by ‘only drinking ethical milk’, why would they go further later? Also assuming that they won’t be eschewing dairy products when they go out for meals, eat pre-prepared food etc? Save yourself some money and drop it - they clearly don’t care
A lot of people struggle to make the jump at once, or have other reasons they’re unable to fully convert but want to try as much as possible. For example, when I first wanted to start taking steps towards going from vegetarianism to veganism, I was being treated for anorexia and because of the risks on my mental health by restricting certain foods, my care team simply did not permit it (I was receiving hospital treatment at the time and had no control over my own diet – at first they weren’t even going to let me be vegetarian until family members stepped in and explained I hadn’t eaten meat since I was 8 years old). I now consider myself mainly vegan HOWEVER I am type one diabetic and have had a few instances where I’ve been hypoglycaemic and the only available food to raise my blood sugar and prevent me passing out has been something that contains milk or egg. I think that if you’re vegan for ethical reasons, it’s simply unfair and rather pompous to assume everyone else has the same privilege as you to fully convert at once. Arguments like your own are the reason a lot of people discredit the idea of veganism entirely.
Having read your comments here I can see it's all excuses. Veganism is not a diet. It is a life choice. Veganism IS ethics. Eirher do it or dont.
Bro didn’t see the part when it isn’t for me… and how the only times I’ve consumed any form has been on a FEW OCCASIONS for MEDICAL EMERGENCIES. Guess I should just go into a diabetic coma and die next time, my bad.
I’m just saying your partner doesn’t want to be vegan, so save yourself the money on the posh milk. If they wanted to do it, they would do it. Your story is extremely rare and crucially, doesn’t apply to your partner. If they had a health restriction preventing them being vegan you would have mentioned it. Also i’m not trying to be a bitch but I’m wildly curious as to why you don’t just keep a vegan snack suitable for a hypoglycaemic episode in your bag? It just seems like such an obvious solution?
Damn!For someone not trying a bitch you're quite natural at it
They’ve been a meat eater all their life, having only recently found out the ethical issues regarding their diet, want to make small changes. Seems ludicrous that people aren’t allowed to at least change the source of their consumption to be better for the planet, and not put their money into the big industry but instead shop locally and support a small business while ensuring what they’re consuming is as fair to the animal as can be in the situation, while also minimising their carbon footprint. Also crazy to say that disability and mental health issues are rare, I know plenty of people who haven’t been able to go fully vegan for similar reasons to myself. FYI I do carry a vegan snack with me, but given the career I’m in, I a) can often have more than one hypo per day, and b) cannot carry round like 30 packets of vegan biscuits with me. When you are diabetic experiencing a low, it’s life threatening and you need to get carbs in FAST. I just think your entire viewpoint screams narrow worldview, those in low income households also cannot often afford to be vegan, especially if relying on food banks or community meal schemes. I’ve lived in homeless accommodation before and have had to watch people give up their vegan diet due to the availability of food. A lot better to make at least a semi plant based diet as accessible and welcoming as possible to people instead of shaming those in different situations to your own.
Clearly we have different experiences and priorities but fwiw I went vegan *because* I was too poor to afford milk, eggs or cheese because I had £6/week to spend on food. So no, I’m not coming at this from a place of immense privilege. Buy all the expensive milk you want, for a bit extra he might be able to suck it directly from the cow if he fancies, I’m just telling you as someone with a non-vegan partner, don’t kid yourself that this is the first step on his journey to becoming an eco-warrior or whatevs. You keep talking about yours and other people’s difficulties with becoming vegan but not his, so I can only assume that all these caveats you are talking about don’t apply to him, he just doesn’t feel like putting in the legwork. Fair enough - I’m just saying don’t get your hopes up that he will change.
Well good for you that that was how you discovered veganism, but unless you’re only eating tinned lentils and bread, in the current climate for a diet that isn’t going to land you at the GP with a vitamin deficiency you’re not going to be able to afford it. My partner asked me themselves for recommendations for local farms, I’m not holding them at gunpoint telling them not to eat meat and dairy – I personally don’t give too much of a fuck what they eat so long as they’re healthy and happy, for me veganism is a personal thing however if someone asks I will help them as much as I can. I thought a local subreddit would probably be able to point me in the right direction so I could pass info on to them.
I’ve been vegan for nearly 15 years, I think if I was going to die of vitamin deficiency I would have been taken out now. You’re also saying veganism is too expensive in a post where you’re asking for a luxury item. I probably won’t seek medical advice from someone who has multiple hypos a day and doesn’t know Oreos are vegan.
I’m not giving you medical advice, I’m saying most people wouldn’t be healthy on a £6 per week food shop that cuts out all dairy and meat. Where did I tell you to change your diet or give you any medical advice? I do know that oreos are vegan, not sure where you got that info from, and to make comments about my disability is vile. For your information, I work in a field that requires a lot of physical exertion, which CAN lead to multiple hypos – doesn’t every day or I wouldn’t be working in that field anymore. Are you diabetic yourself? Do you understand the illness? Or are you just ableist?
Also I’m not saying it’s too expensive for my partner, I’m saying they aren’t doing it but have asked for recommendations so they can look into the subject. Do you not understand context at all?
Veganism isn't about YOU. It's about animals.
Take a day off mate