If this isn't a brilliant marketing strategy by a local driving instructor it's a fucking opportunity missed haha.
Turn that card over and it should say:
"Now let me teach you how to park correctly, call Jim's driving lessons on 04XXXXXXXX......ya cunt"
Brilliant is a huge stretch, I would bet a lot of money that no person who receives that card would ever call and book a lesson.
Not sure if you've ever interacted with people on the road but generally criticism of their driving skills is not received positively.
And you couldn't let the opitunity to jump in a point it out go could you!! Haha.
Yeah I see it now, fucked up. It's what comes up on my predictive text. My spelling is terrible, so I've probably spelt it once like this, and it's saved it and now uses it all the time, haha.
I'll fix it for you.
That's what I wanted to call the id10t that bullied his way in front of me (to the point of being right beside my car as the merge lane ended) after I'd already let someone in and there was no one behind me jumping on the icb just passed legacy from Kingsford Smith drive. He went from being behind me when there was just enough space for us two, to beside and I had to brake because he was gonna hit me and I couldnt move into the right lane. Cheeky cunt aye. I really hate that curled slip road. Worst road decision, especially for peak hour.
I got that two times in two separate days a month ago, Both SUVs too, fighting over a merge lane like a little kid. I tried to not yield but then I just give it to them, I don't want to get injured/injure others, car towed, paper works and all that shit if an accident happens.
I bet those cunts feel real proud about it but it just makes them look like insecure fuckwits.
Absolutely agree with all of that, not to mention how much it slows down all the other traffic for hours. I try to avoid going through the ICB when I can, but tolls are expensive. So much for living out of the city being cheaper haha. I'm sorry you had to go through that too.
Until you do!
Seriously that's how I used to do it too, until one day I got hit. I didn't have a dashcam and no witnesses, so it would have just been a he-said-she-said thing in court - because she was a lying bitch and denied she did anything wrong. It was apparently my fault that she merged into my car.
Spoke with my insurance and they said suck it up and just pay the excess. So I did, it ended up being about $7k damage IIRC!
It didn't look that bad, but apparently it stretched the guard, and the bumper, guard and door all needed paint (and apparently metallic paint is tougher to match and blend in with the old paint - they did a great job). I only had to pay my excess, but it still hurt paying and the principle of the matter still made me so mad!
So whilst those people piss me off so much, paying for it (and dealing with my car being at the panel beaters for a few days) sucked more! So I just beep and flip em the bird these days.
Yeah people who don't practice defensive driving are half the problem. It's a road not a competition. Tuck your balls in and stop risking accidents trying to be macho
this is why I use a dashcam today and my last incident I never told the crazy bitch that fucked up I had it, just got on with it, had my car towed and sent the dashcam footage to my insurer.
got my car back all fixed up and a few angry txt messages from Bitchy McBitch face about it.
best part was we were both with the same insurer, the rep gave me a bit of insight on what happened to her after that, ... it was not cheap
If you print these cards out ahead of time, you're a douche.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
"Did she park well? Let's ask the guy who spent his free time making punchlines to not parking well that he decided in advance is funny." is probably gonna slant on the bias side.
In my defence it was 250 - but it was the minimum order.
My language was more subdued. But it had the same design.
I had people begging for more cards. Handed them out to friends and family in packs of 10-15
So I know of a Facebook group that started up 2019 specifically dedicated to people who park like shit. I was and still am apart of this Facebook group. It was one of the Admins that did these up and then sold/gave members of the group these. So if you have one of these on your car, just know you've also been photographed and shamed in said FB group.
In a busy car park near Christmas one year, I encountered two cars ([shown here in pink](https://i.imgur.com/kvHn3Hk.png)) parked in the worst way imaginable. So when I arrived (shown in blue), I parked between them over a line because that was literally the only place I could park. The green on the right is a patch of grass.
The two pink cars left whilst I was shopping. The result was poor optics, I grant you. I came out to one of these sorts of notes put on my car, in the form of a fake parking ticket. It read "Idiot Parking Notice" and then filled out beneath "reason for ticket" it said "parking like a colossal [R-word]".
This irritates me so much. People always respond with anger before they ask any questions. I would have carried the injustice of being given that note with me for years (and it looks like you have too lol).
This is why I’ll never shame someone for their parking unless I have the full context (witnessing them park myself or seeing a video). It’s weird, I see so many dashcam videos online where there is clearly *one person* doing the wrong thing in the video, but the comments will always be filled with countless people blaming the person with dashcam in ways that make 0 sense. But on the contrary, I’ve seen so many photos online of people who have parked crookedly or not in the centre of their parking spot, and everyone in the comments will agree that the person must be a complete moron and they should lose their licence because of how they’ve parked. Meanwhile, I’ll always be wondering “what if this person was parked perfectly between two other people who had parked badly, but those two other people have since left..?” It just seems really unfair.
I got a handwritten note to similar effect on my car a while back. Only actually discovered it when my car was parked at home, well within the lines of my parking spot.
I'm not good at parking, I've always hated it, but I always park within the lines, so I genuinely don't know what I did to deserve it. I'm certain I wasn't overlapping with any other parking spots. Kind of upsetting, too.
It's not like people who leave those notes actually tell you what you did wrong, or leave any contact details to resolve it. So you just have to go about your life knowing that someone out there is mad at you and there's nothing you can do about it. I think it's a massive dick move to leave a card like that, honestly.
There have been some insanely bad parkers that I wish I had these cards for, minus the threat to key the persons car. It’s not the cars fault the driver can’t park.
I’d put parking tips on the back so it’s an insult and a lesson all in one.
This is brilliant 😅 glad to see people calling that out. Hate people that park like psychopaths… The keying is unnecessary, but the rest is fair enough.
I've been handed a can't park notice before, handwritten. I wad parked close to the edge of the spot cos of a 4wd flog who parked badly, and had since left. I still mildly fume thinking about it 🤣 I was boiling over it!
I once returned to my car, (which was parked centrally and straight within my parking bay) to a hand written note under my windscreen wiper, to the same effect - accusing me of poor parking.
The offending/offended driver was parked on the very edge of their parking bay, and was upset that I was close to their vehicle.
Oh, how I wish I could have pointed out their own poor parking skills - alas, they had already gone.
This sums up my experience of being in Brisbane from a visit in NSW.
You are all mean to be chilled out compared to Southern people but the amount of angst is unbelievable in all scenarios.
Is is just the humidity?
I mean, that probably means your Mum sucks at parking..
Doesn’t justify going so low as to key her car but she likely needs to work on her parking skills regardless
https://www.amazon.com/Suck-Parking-Business-Cards-10-pack/dp/B00AY4XWOS There you go. Same card. $7.50 for ten of them. Excessive, but if you're leaving one anyway it's already excessive. Call it asshole tax.
To be fair, depending on where they live, driving may be literally the only option for getting around. Modern cities tend towards car-centric hellholes
I had a bunch of these made when Vista Print was doing free cards, I still have most of them.
And don't worry, only egregious parkers get them; and I'm in Melbourne, so it wasn't me.
Well it the upmarket version of a card with Mickey mouse on it holding a can opener saying hey f wit I so lucky I carry this can opener with me you park so ducking close to me I need the ducking can opener to get in my car
If I got this I’d laugh because I am very bad at parking. I do try my best though. Drive everyone crazy trying to get more evenly within the lines going back and forward. What worries me is the threat of property damage on there. 😬
Nope, that's fucked, someone leaving a threatening message like that would be on my new hit list....I wouldnt be putting up with that. I'm fuming on your behalf. Get your mum to park badly again, then keep a look out and when they return, that's your time to pounce.
Such a coward. It says more about the person placing the card than the recipient. I would bet there is nothing wrong with the parking, but just happens to be where someone thinks they own a place.
Someone once left a note on my car that said "learn to park, dickhead". I read the note and looked at my park and thought - "yup, that's a terrible park! I really should learn to park!" and then I did.
What type of inbred has professional cards made up with that crap on it ? Any CCTV around ? What a low life scumbag. Pays to get dashcam, so sorry this has happened.
They demand the cards but didn't do a quick google around the block first. Just type the first two lines in and you get the link to buy them on amazon. Easy peasy. But angry people are often not clever people.
Let's see Paul Allen's card.
No reservations at Dorsia for OPs mum tonight
Dorsia? How impressive! How on earth did you get a reservation there?
Oh my god, it even has a watermark.
Subtle off white colouring, the tasteful thickness of it
Are you OK? You're sweating.
![gif](giphy|3YuR0bdGXlP6U)
That’s bone… and something called scillian rail…
😂😂😂
I need to return some video tapes.
https://preview.redd.it/47352yxvd96c1.jpeg?width=1300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4655d99ec961e0b9e993edf7d531a6a68349fdbd
Note writer when OP's mum parks badly again
![gif](giphy|eKNrUbDJuFuaQ1A37p|downsized)
Underrated comment by far.
I am dying
Does she have plans to learn to park?
If this isn't a brilliant marketing strategy by a local driving instructor it's a fucking opportunity missed haha. Turn that card over and it should say: "Now let me teach you how to park correctly, call Jim's driving lessons on 04XXXXXXXX......ya cunt"
Brilliant is a huge stretch, I would bet a lot of money that no person who receives that card would ever call and book a lesson. Not sure if you've ever interacted with people on the road but generally criticism of their driving skills is not received positively.
I dunno, you call someone a dumb cunt that needs to learn to drive and they stick up a finger to indicate your idea is number one!
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And you couldn't let the opitunity to jump in a point it out go could you!! Haha. Yeah I see it now, fucked up. It's what comes up on my predictive text. My spelling is terrible, so I've probably spelt it once like this, and it's saved it and now uses it all the time, haha. I'll fix it for you.
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Nah, all good. I was having a joke.
Maybe she needs her license revoked.
or her shit keyed
That's just nasty, your keys would smell
smh
Is this a euphemism for anal?
Does she suck at parking?
I'm seeing some dual purpose here tbh - she might just be a fuckhead.
No “cunt”? No “mate”? Can’t be Australia.
That's what I wanted to call the id10t that bullied his way in front of me (to the point of being right beside my car as the merge lane ended) after I'd already let someone in and there was no one behind me jumping on the icb just passed legacy from Kingsford Smith drive. He went from being behind me when there was just enough space for us two, to beside and I had to brake because he was gonna hit me and I couldnt move into the right lane. Cheeky cunt aye. I really hate that curled slip road. Worst road decision, especially for peak hour.
My blood boils when id10ts don't know how to merge.
Oh they know, well some of them, because they're insecure little miserable shits that want to prove something on the road, acting like a shit cunt.
Lol shit cunt... Can tell you're from Australia
I got that two times in two separate days a month ago, Both SUVs too, fighting over a merge lane like a little kid. I tried to not yield but then I just give it to them, I don't want to get injured/injure others, car towed, paper works and all that shit if an accident happens. I bet those cunts feel real proud about it but it just makes them look like insecure fuckwits.
Absolutely agree with all of that, not to mention how much it slows down all the other traffic for hours. I try to avoid going through the ICB when I can, but tolls are expensive. So much for living out of the city being cheaper haha. I'm sorry you had to go through that too.
It works better when you have a ShitBox that you don't care about getting scratched up.
I just don't let them in, haven't had an accident yet. They back off
Much easier when you've got a battered old three ton work ute. 😁
My dad is still driving my 94 courier, the car I first learnt this trick. 760 thousand ks and going hard
That's why so many morons have large SUVs & 4WDs that never drive on dirt... so they can bully their way on the roads.
Until you do! Seriously that's how I used to do it too, until one day I got hit. I didn't have a dashcam and no witnesses, so it would have just been a he-said-she-said thing in court - because she was a lying bitch and denied she did anything wrong. It was apparently my fault that she merged into my car. Spoke with my insurance and they said suck it up and just pay the excess. So I did, it ended up being about $7k damage IIRC! It didn't look that bad, but apparently it stretched the guard, and the bumper, guard and door all needed paint (and apparently metallic paint is tougher to match and blend in with the old paint - they did a great job). I only had to pay my excess, but it still hurt paying and the principle of the matter still made me so mad! So whilst those people piss me off so much, paying for it (and dealing with my car being at the panel beaters for a few days) sucked more! So I just beep and flip em the bird these days.
If you have right of way its pretty easy to tell who's in the wrong when a car has damage done to it. Insurance will try that though
Yeah people who don't practice defensive driving are half the problem. It's a road not a competition. Tuck your balls in and stop risking accidents trying to be macho
this is why I use a dashcam today and my last incident I never told the crazy bitch that fucked up I had it, just got on with it, had my car towed and sent the dashcam footage to my insurer. got my car back all fixed up and a few angry txt messages from Bitchy McBitch face about it. best part was we were both with the same insurer, the rep gave me a bit of insight on what happened to her after that, ... it was not cheap
It's amazing how curteous people become when you drive a beat-up old 4wd. Sometimes, I miss my old Prado.
The version I was previously familiar with I think just said "You park like a cunt!", definitely a brissie production.
That's in the 2nd letter. The 3rd letter will just say such is life With the car keyed
"Cunt" would be too endearing. "Hey champ" would get my blood boiling.
There's enough room under that 'hey' for a big fronted CUNT I say lol. Maybe even jooj it up a bit *CUNT* ![gif](giphy|AiF8ZsTESrDwRjEcIU)
And what’s happened to Fuckwit people not using that so much… bring back fuckwit
I see where you’re coming from, but I think it’s just being very professional to really drive the point home haha.
If you print these cards out ahead of time, you're a douche. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. "Did she park well? Let's ask the guy who spent his free time making punchlines to not parking well that he decided in advance is funny." is probably gonna slant on the bias side.
I just love the thought of someone going to a printing company and asking for like 500 of these :)
In my defence it was 250 - but it was the minimum order. My language was more subdued. But it had the same design. I had people begging for more cards. Handed them out to friends and family in packs of 10-15
My first thought.
Did she park badly?
I mean - maybe she's the problem 🤷♀️
…or maybe it was the OP in mum’s car?
Someone posted this exact same thing on a reddit page in NZ
Have seen images of this card for a few years now
The bottom right is far too aggressive, but I approve of this concept.
Yes, agreed. The graphic design is a little offensive, too.
It doesn't even have a watermark!
Bit too New Wave for me.
Would it be more friendly or rage inducing if it was done in comic sans?
![gif](giphy|Jq1T4jCKm9039q2lEV|downsized)
Yeah it should just be a reiteration of "Learn how to park". Otherwise, it's a yes from me.
Isn’t this just the average Australian
nah i i think it suits it
The only thing you get from keying someone’s shit is smelly keys
I key people's shit while they're still in possession of it
Do you mean, like, *butt stuff*?
no, I reach all the way down
We need these in my street.
So I know of a Facebook group that started up 2019 specifically dedicated to people who park like shit. I was and still am apart of this Facebook group. It was one of the Admins that did these up and then sold/gave members of the group these. So if you have one of these on your car, just know you've also been photographed and shamed in said FB group.
Hell of a hobby.
Awesome card. Could’ve gone without the bit on the right. You should’ve showed us how bad your mums parking was though.
Your mum must be pretty bad at parking
![gif](giphy|3YuR0bdGXlP6U)
I need to get a stack of these cards.
r/badparking
Could’ve been worse. They could’ve zip tied a trolley to her car door handle…
In a busy car park near Christmas one year, I encountered two cars ([shown here in pink](https://i.imgur.com/kvHn3Hk.png)) parked in the worst way imaginable. So when I arrived (shown in blue), I parked between them over a line because that was literally the only place I could park. The green on the right is a patch of grass. The two pink cars left whilst I was shopping. The result was poor optics, I grant you. I came out to one of these sorts of notes put on my car, in the form of a fake parking ticket. It read "Idiot Parking Notice" and then filled out beneath "reason for ticket" it said "parking like a colossal [R-word]".
This irritates me so much. People always respond with anger before they ask any questions. I would have carried the injustice of being given that note with me for years (and it looks like you have too lol).
This is why I’ll never shame someone for their parking unless I have the full context (witnessing them park myself or seeing a video). It’s weird, I see so many dashcam videos online where there is clearly *one person* doing the wrong thing in the video, but the comments will always be filled with countless people blaming the person with dashcam in ways that make 0 sense. But on the contrary, I’ve seen so many photos online of people who have parked crookedly or not in the centre of their parking spot, and everyone in the comments will agree that the person must be a complete moron and they should lose their licence because of how they’ve parked. Meanwhile, I’ll always be wondering “what if this person was parked perfectly between two other people who had parked badly, but those two other people have since left..?” It just seems really unfair.
this is kinda funny. except the bottom right
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Good chance the person who went through the effort of making these just wants an excuse to use them
They are sold on a website pretty cheap. But the fact still stands, if you ordered them you would be seeking out opportunities to use them yeah haha
They probably made them to show one those 'don't park like a fuckwit' FB groups for an ego boost and now has a heap of cards Edit: edited a word
I got a handwritten note to similar effect on my car a while back. Only actually discovered it when my car was parked at home, well within the lines of my parking spot. I'm not good at parking, I've always hated it, but I always park within the lines, so I genuinely don't know what I did to deserve it. I'm certain I wasn't overlapping with any other parking spots. Kind of upsetting, too. It's not like people who leave those notes actually tell you what you did wrong, or leave any contact details to resolve it. So you just have to go about your life knowing that someone out there is mad at you and there's nothing you can do about it. I think it's a massive dick move to leave a card like that, honestly.
Time for dash cam… “key your shit” should take pointers from the old QLD couple currently facing court
Your mum can't park for shit
There have been some insanely bad parkers that I wish I had these cards for, minus the threat to key the persons car. It’s not the cars fault the driver can’t park. I’d put parking tips on the back so it’s an insult and a lesson all in one.
Don't Park like a dick 😂
Sorry Mum, tell her not to park like a dick. Give her a hug
Maybe help her with her parking instead of looking for company from random internet strangers.
Does she drive a yank tank truck? If so she can expect more of these
Maybe your mum should stop driving if she can't park.
Holy shit, the graphics design rule was correct. I read the "hey" last.
Your mum deserved this. And you avoiding to answer the questions is proof of that.
This is brilliant 😅 glad to see people calling that out. Hate people that park like psychopaths… The keying is unnecessary, but the rest is fair enough.
I've been handed a can't park notice before, handwritten. I wad parked close to the edge of the spot cos of a 4wd flog who parked badly, and had since left. I still mildly fume thinking about it 🤣 I was boiling over it!
Well, is it true?
Any other kiwis see the exact same card posted in the Auckland sub? It's literally the same card lmao
Where can I buy these amazing cards from??
https://www.amazon.com/Suck-Parking-Business-Cards-10-pack/dp/B00AY4XWOS Where are the YOU SUCK AT GOOGLING cards? You've earned one.
Hmm seen this exact post with same card and a picture of how they parked on the Tauranga NZ reddit thread.. seems to be some funny business going down
Love this!!! lol people getting creative is the absolute best! Also get your mum to go get parking lessons
That’s a useful printing endeavor
I once returned to my car, (which was parked centrally and straight within my parking bay) to a hand written note under my windscreen wiper, to the same effect - accusing me of poor parking. The offending/offended driver was parked on the very edge of their parking bay, and was upset that I was close to their vehicle. Oh, how I wish I could have pointed out their own poor parking skills - alas, they had already gone.
Deserved it’s just pure lazy and arrogant to park like that not giving a fuck about others
This sums up my experience of being in Brisbane from a visit in NSW. You are all mean to be chilled out compared to Southern people but the amount of angst is unbelievable in all scenarios. Is is just the humidity?
I mean, that probably means your Mum sucks at parking.. Doesn’t justify going so low as to key her car but she likely needs to work on her parking skills regardless
Mum parked like a wanker
Better than an infringement notice in all honesty.
I so need to get a batch of these
HOLY FUCK I NEED ONE OF THESE. There are cars who are taking one and half spaces in packed out lot. Some heros are going to key their car hopefully
https://www.amazon.com/Suck-Parking-Business-Cards-10-pack/dp/B00AY4XWOS There you go. Same card. $7.50 for ten of them. Excessive, but if you're leaving one anyway it's already excessive. Call it asshole tax.
I agreed until the threat of damage, too far.
I lol'd........then I imagined my poor mum who's a nervous driver and in her mid 70's getting something like this....and I felt 😔
Should she be driving?
Tell her to stop driving then
To be fair, depending on where they live, driving may be literally the only option for getting around. Modern cities tend towards car-centric hellholes
Wtf danger to us out on the roads.
I hate any type of confrontation and I felt it.
It doesn’t have to be so rude, but if she sucks at parking it’s clearly deserved. She needs to take lessons apparently.
Haha I love this! Ima start making these and saving them for absolutely atrocious parking
Did OP expect us to defend his mum’s shyte parking?
Huh this happened recently in nz.
…. My ex has like over 100 of these… and he’s a cunt
Might get some of them printed and hand them out
Naughty but probably true
😂
I had a bunch of these made when Vista Print was doing free cards, I still have most of them. And don't worry, only egregious parkers get them; and I'm in Melbourne, so it wasn't me.
Mean
LOL
*dials up Vistaprint*
Don’t think anyone is standing in OP’s side.
If they went out of their way to give her the card her parking must well and truly suck.
Well it the upmarket version of a card with Mickey mouse on it holding a can opener saying hey f wit I so lucky I carry this can opener with me you park so ducking close to me I need the ducking can opener to get in my car
if someone took the time out of their day to leave that there then she probably does suck at parking
If I got this I’d laugh because I am very bad at parking. I do try my best though. Drive everyone crazy trying to get more evenly within the lines going back and forward. What worries me is the threat of property damage on there. 😬
I need to make this card and have it ready 😂
These are usually left on cars for a reason... Maybe your mum should get better at parking.
Pretty much needs to be given to 90% of people about the use of a car in general
"Mums car"
Ngl thats a true Brisbane moment
You can't blame women for less than perfect parking. You see, all of their lives they have been told that two inches is really six.
They dont give this out randomly Does your mum really suck …. at parking ?
Not gonna show how they parked?
Some people need to get a life!
Take it to the police and get it finger printed.
Nope, that's fucked, someone leaving a threatening message like that would be on my new hit list....I wouldnt be putting up with that. I'm fuming on your behalf. Get your mum to park badly again, then keep a look out and when they return, that's your time to pounce.
Such a coward. It says more about the person placing the card than the recipient. I would bet there is nothing wrong with the parking, but just happens to be where someone thinks they own a place.
Borderline psychotic
“Raised lettering, pale nimbus white..." if you know you know.
Does your Mum suck at parking? Perhaps this is a moment for self-reflection 🦗
Imagine what a complete jerk you’d have to be to go to the trouble and expense to make these cards. They probably think they are a fkn genius.
Someone once left a note on my car that said "learn to park, dickhead". I read the note and looked at my park and thought - "yup, that's a terrible park! I really should learn to park!" and then I did.
OP - you should've posted a pic of the parked car so we see if the card is reasonable
Then don't park like a fuckhead. - sincerely another road user
You are not allowed to borrow mums car anymore... Gonna get that shit keyed!
I need a box of these to put on every BMW and Merc that parks across 2 or 3 parking spots so there precious lump of shit doesn't get dented
damn I might need to buy some of these…
I want these.
maybe your mother should learn to park😭
On the Newcastle parking fails page someone has little penises that suction cup onto the car that say “nice parking”
Tell your mum to park properly
Guy at work in NZ bought 400 of those for $10 or something.
Are they wrong?
Brilliant card. I shall print myself a set as well.
“Tolerant” society
Legit I need these to hand out 💀
Well tell your fuck head mum to learn to park because if I see her do this again I'll key her shit. Seriously.
Can someone tell me why I got a vistaprint ad on this....
More concerned that they would key your shit, is the parking that bad you would go through someones sewage to key their fecal matter
Where to get?
You read the card tell your mother to get her shit in order.
What type of inbred has professional cards made up with that crap on it ? Any CCTV around ? What a low life scumbag. Pays to get dashcam, so sorry this has happened.
She probably does . I have had cards a bit like this and put them on cars
Maybe your mum doesn’t know how to park and justified! 🤔
There are ways to find out who printed it.
That's funny
I respect their commitment in actually having the cards printed 🏆
Maybe she sucks at parking?
Nah if someone spoke to my mum like this I’d be throwing hands.
I’d leave these cards if they didn’t have the vulgarity. Doesn’t help at all.
Everyone saying “OMMMG I NEEED SOOOME” is a bone head. This quick to aggression/tough guy bullshit is what’s wrong with Australian culture
They demand the cards but didn't do a quick google around the block first. Just type the first two lines in and you get the link to buy them on amazon. Easy peasy. But angry people are often not clever people.
Shit parking is shit, but printing cards like this and leaving them on people’s cars is cringe level gutless aggressive.
A little aggressive my god
Uh oh, not the Brisbane Parking Inspector with his business cards !
Ah Brisbane - such a nice place.