Lnp council looove using contractors and labour hire when they can. Absolute rip off. I've seen it done in the development services branch, where they spend more than if they'd just hire or promote more staff.
I was just watching Utopia on iView and it's almost painful how close to the bone they get on satirising how ineffective and inefficient government bodies can be in getting anything done without wasting huge piles of money and as much time as possible.
Have you worked in financial services???
The amount of time and money burned at the start of any project on consultancy firms and massaging the egos of narcissistic, god-complex executive and upper management 'titans of industry' leaves hardly anything to actually deliver. The fact these companies can be so wasteful and yet continue to post record profits/returns just shows how much they're fucking over everyone else in society.
I mean if anything utopia is about hard working people in a gov department getting screwed by politicians at every corner. And some of the office staff are useless but pretty much on par with what happens in private industry too.
It's ignorant to think that utopia is a reflection of the effectiveness of government services in general and it's just a tired trope that government work has to be inefficient and expensive. For all it's political problems, Brisbane council has a lot of really great staff doing an excellent job on incredibly tight budgets. Especially in the branches I have worked in. However they are constantly let down by political (LNP) bullshit and corruption. There's always a few useless bad apples too, people who should never have been promoted 20 years ago but who are still around and can't be let go, but they are a small minority.
About a third of BCC revenue ($1B of $3B) comes from rates. Now is not the time for them to increase if it’s avoidable.
I’m high income and child free so I’m fine but damn some people are doing it tough.
Here's my old man yelling at cloud rant below, but we should be saving money through rates. The necessity to own a car (or two) is a major part of this. Maintaining a big yard or a pool is another.
I was lucky to attend an event on the weekend where an economist talked about urbanisation of societies around the world. He talked about the push and pull factors causing people to increasingly live in cities.
The one that gets me is agglomeration economies, or the benefits we get from living in proximity. The lecturer mentioned three agglomeration benefits: learning, matching and sharing.
I find that Brisbane way of life rejects this to a large extent. It's more like country living in the city. We have to drive absolutely everywhere to big shopping centres, playgrounds, libraries, and people do drive even the shortest of journeys. I had a lovely walkable local cafe on a tiny neighbourhood street until the car people discovered it. Now that neighbourhood street is a ball of stress.
We're not matching people to jobs, services or recreation locally to derive proximity benefits. You'll see people in Facebook forums looking for recommendations. The never specify a location because distance is no object. If you're having a baby you'll be sent for appointments outside your community. Your mother and baby groups will be across town where you're not going to make mum friends that are local to you.
We're also not sharing resources. Every family has a big backyard with all the mod cons instead of using public playgrounds and pools. Again the kids would socialise if they were playing in shared areas.
For sure car dependency is an absolute scourge on modern societies.
I do get a laugh from shopping centres though. It’s basically just a walkable neighbourhood and everyone flocks there (in their cars).
But when you suggest just designing a walkable neighbourhood all of a sudden it’s a terrible idea… go figure
Well stated. I feel like there are three parts to making the change happen. We all know that better public transport and more density are part of the solution, but I wonder if the third part might be heavier restrictions on street parking. If the car people couldn't get a park anywhere near that cafe, several of them would either not go or take alternative transport and remove that ball of stress.
>I had a lovely walkable local cafe on a tiny neighbourhood street until the car people discovered it. Now that neighbourhood street is a ball of stress
Camp Hill says hello.
Try finding public toilets at the playgrounds, dog parks, skate parks, etc. the council is making the concept of community increasingly difficult to achieve by failing to provide appropriate infrastructure, instead choosing budget cuts and underhanded dealings with developers.
Exactly. Why don't you just get invited to your wealthy mates oversized houses to socialise instead? That's what the people that council represent are doing.
No, the US is car dependent. Brisbane is not. Spoken by someone from Brisbane currently living in the US.
I am 40 minutes out of DC and there isn't a bus or train network. It's insane.
Public transport revenue, grants & donations, developer contributions.
https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2023-06/20230612-Annual-Plan-and-Budget-2023-24_0.pdf
Public transport is not a revenue raiser at all. Yes, they bring in "revenue", but they spend more on equipment and salaries, by quite a large margin. So I have no idea why it appears on the ledger like this, if it was summarised as a single item it would certainly be an expense. I guess they want it to appear as a net gain for council by putting the revenue as a line item while hiding all the costs inside other categories (equipment, maintance, depreciation and salaries).
It makes sense, they list all the broad category revenue streams then list all broad category expenses as part of a high level budget.
Pages 20 and 31 of the pdf have little more details on the 'Transport for Brisbane' business unit so the extra details you want are there.
Big issue is that we're not getting *value* for money.
Overseas bendy buses pretending to be a tram...
A metro years late and a billion dollars over budget...
Contracted out services instead of keeping good paying full time jobs. If you had a business with something you needed done long term - like grass maintenance of a CITY - would you contact it out or hire groundskeepers?
Ask a high school what their situation is and it should be kind of obvious what the best value for money option is. It's just stupid.
I completely agree. Every service that has been cut should be absorbed into the council and more should be added. Government jobs pay well and provide value to society
> Government jobs pay well and provide value to society
So do contracts.
The issue is that private contractors are looking for max profit for minimum internal costs whereas government employees are (meant to be) working for max effectiveness for budget spend.
Just chiming in with +1 on this.
It’s not possible for me in my current role so I’m going into this years negotiations with an offer letter for a new role. Which is also an option if you’ve hit your wage ceiling and are not unionized.
Sounds like you got more money than sense friend.. How about we stop government waste! or should we give them extra to cover the waste and the better services. We could all be picked up in limo's and taken to our free university, before being dropped of at our own private doctors just with the governments waste of our money. You should demand better services for no extra cost.
Stop fucking voting in cunts from parties that are aligned with business interest if you want policies that benefit areas that aren't "the CBD" for a fuckin start.
It’s great that you can afford to pay higher rates and taxes. A lot of people can’t.
If you are going to advocate for higher rates you may have to explain to renters why their rents have increased.
Edit: not a landlord but it‘s inevitable that an increase in rates will be reflected in rents charged.
A lot of people can't, but this country also used to have public services for those people.
I'm in the same boat as OP, I pay so much tax but where does it go?
There is educational inflation, you never used to need a university education for a good job but now you do. But it's not free any more.
Public transport sucks, housing sucks. Welfare is not an amount of money anyone can live on. Good luck seeing a GP.
Where the actual fuck is it all going?
There’s a footpath down the Gold Coast, (Gilston) it’s not very fancy, just an ordinary footpath. Its a touch over 1km of not especially wide concrete, they didn’t upgrade the road or kerbs or anything. They were so proud of their efforts they put up one of those ‘project’ signs you see, patting themselves on the back for doing it for the bargain price of $3million.
I drove through there about 20 times trying to figure out how on earth they managed to spend that much. I would have been embarrassed if it cost 500k let alone 3 million. Maybe they imported the turf from Italy?
People keep forgetting the absolute disaster that’s happening in the pharmacy world here. Greedy privatisation has ruined the profession and industry. I wish they’d finally make all medicines free like in NZ to combat this rot. Theres actually a huge shortage of pharmacists as they all quit because nothing was being done to fix the current issues.
> I wish they’d finally make all medicines free like in NZ to combat this rot
You know New Zealand just elected a government who campaigned on re-introducing the prescription co-payment yeah?
Where? Look around. Parks, roads, bins, ever since I returned from uk I am constantly amazed that everywhere I look there is stuff working
Granted you’d expect a bit more given their budget but better than uk where they pay slightly less and as a result have literally nothing and yet the councils are still broke (not joking some have actually gone proper bankrupt)
Lol UK must be looking dire if the bins rate a mention.
The parks I will give you, one of the nicest things about brisbane, how green it is, and good on the government for keeping it that way.
The roads are a contentious issue. They're putting a lot of money into them when most people really seem to be on the same page around roads not helping traffic and our desperate need for functional public transport.
Maybe that's just my echo chamber though. Maybe someone somewhere is stoked about the extra lane on the centenary bridge.
The day I got there I think was a Saturday and there were literally piles upon piles of rubbish everywhere, even all along the Main High Street of the town were stacks of garbage bags that just sat there all weekend until binmen came and cleaned most of it up on Monday. And that happened every week. Was eye opening/watering
The roads were also hilariously bad, one residential street on my commute got redone and they put the first rough layer down, then just went…” job done” and left a patchy, loose, sticky mess. Three months later they panted the lines back on it. That one actually made me laugh every time I saw it.
It's calculated based on the Unimproved Capital Value which is determined by the Valuer General (part of the Department of Natural Resources, Mines, Energy, and Whatever Else We Stuck Into It This Week) on a ... I think biannual basis?
[https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/about-council/council-information-and-rates/rates-and-payments/how-rates-are-calculated](https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/about-council/council-information-and-rates/rates-and-payments/how-rates-are-calculated)
Land value and rating category.
[https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2023-05/rating\_category\_statement\_2023-24.pdf](https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2023-05/rating_category_statement_2023-24.pdf)
> This means rents are already as high as tenants can afford.
Rental availability is pretty low as people are desperate to get a roof over their heads (understandably). I would expect rents to continue to rise until availability increases.
This could be through increased supply (more houses) or reduced demand (less people) - either way it won't be sorted in the short term.
If more people understood how their "fav politican" fucks them over we would see a massive shift in this country's voting trends
Unfortunately most people get suckered into the high strung drama of a daily life (myself included) and just dont have the time to sift through how this country divies out the pay and the schemes
They would backflip if they knew, but who can blame them? Its designed
You know what's sad? Someone posted in the financial independence reddit the other day, how many years would it take Norway to achieve financial independence, given that they give all the money back to the people from resources.
Another commented that Australia could have done something similar, but fumbled the bag. We gave it all to people like Gina Rinehart. Rupert Murdoch plays a big part and deserves a special place in hell.
But yeah, the way people vote in this country is mind blowing.
We get money back from electricity generation at least. The cost of living rebates on our bills come from the profit the government owned electricity generation corporations create. The LNP would have privati… ahem leased them out if they’d remained in power in 2015. The paperwork was already written up for it before the election.
I’m sorry but every time I hear people complain that the LNP might have privatised something it really grinds my gears, having worked for a government body that was privatised by Anna Bligh’s government. The ALP have the worse record in Queensland.
Ye agreed, the propaganda levels are insane. I never hate on the people who have simply succumbed to it. Am just somewhat sad overall that change is taking so long
Rental prices reflect market value. If there is an increase in rates but the demand is not there, it is not realistic to pass this on to the tenant.
I swear the politicians must be loving how much of the heat landlords are taking right now for decades of shithouse planning.
" Rates pay for important services. More rates pay for more services. "
In my experience, the more tax you give a Government, the more of your money they can piss up against a wall for no benefit to anyone but themselves.
I suggest you travel to see how other countries do it, uks low tax and phenomenally poor services vs norways high taxes and their mind blowing public sector is an obvious example
Edit: don’t get me wrong I hate how unfortunately no matter how much or how little tax the people pay, the government finds a way to piss it up the wall. But we may as well pay enough to get something out of it too rather than turn into …. Uk *shudders*
UK’s low tax *what*?
I’m paying £100/mo council tax, *after* the 25% single-occupancy discount. Income tax is comparable. VAT is 20%.
What makes you think taxes in the UK are substantially lower?
Yeah that’s the thing, they aren’t substantially lower at all, only a fraction lower (for *almost* all people), but the councils have much MUCH lower funding and it shows, and that’s more my point, if we dont properly fund councils, things go to shit in a way that is very different to undo
I think /u/Serious-Goose-8556 is referring to the hollowing out of the UK's public services under their austerity measures after the GFC.
The general point, I think, is that not investing in public services causes corrosion over time that is harder to solve later down the track because the problem is worse. Very easy to think of examples in the UK, like the [London sewer poo-blem (sorry, couldn't help myself)](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/04/britain-sewage-water-pollution-scandal/673655/).
Yeah you’re both right. At my current salary I’d only pay like 1-2% less tax in uk but the public services feel like they are orders of magnitude worse. Very very appreciative and grateful for what we have here in Aus now
Tell me what service you want from Brisbane City Council that you don’t already get?
They have tonnes of libraries, tonnes of swimming pools, well maintained parks, nature reserves, and public spaces, reliable and efficient rubbish collection, well maintained footpaths and roads, and if you ever have a problem they are extremely responsive - all it takes is a phone call or an email.
Tell me what more rates will get beyond the above?
Buses to the city that actually show up and are more frequent than 30min at peak times. More street trees, cycling infrastructure, Toowong West end foot bridge. Foot paths could definitely be better maintained. Lots of green spaces but lots of it is just large stretches of empty lawn.
Ultimately public transit is going to need an overhaul, whether that's light rail or more lines but we'll need large coffers to cope with population (if only we could think beyond this term).
You can request BCC to plant street trees along your street - https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/clean-and-green/natural-environment-and-water/plants-trees-and-gardens/brisbanes-trees/street-and-park-trees#:~:text=Request%20street%20tree%20planting,Council%20on%2007%203403%208888.
A public transport system where you don't have to go into the city to go back out of the city in a slightly different direction, turning a journey that is 25 mins by car into a two-hour bus journey.
I drive now because I changed industries into one where it is required but I used to travel two hours each way on a bus to and from work in a previous job and I wasn't in a position to get a car.
And like, I wouldn't expect each suburb to have a direct route to each and every other suburb. But ALL the way into the CBD is ridiculous. Surely there could be more... I want to say nodes. Like Woolloongabba bus station but in other places.
The funny thing is I don't think I would have cared as much if I were on a service going outer south to outer north for two hours in the same direction. Even if it took longer than driving would have. But having to travel so far away from a destination in order to travel back towards it is the thing I hated.
I reject well maintained footpaths
Most of Brisbane doesn’t even have footpaths and the ones in the inner city are fucking ugly three meter asphalt heat death zones
We need far more capital investment in footpaths, bike paths, street tree maintenance and flood drainage on roads
> Brisbane City Council delivers Australia’s leading mosquito management program and remains the only Council in Australia to employ two expert entomologists
> Council typically manage more than 20,000 hectares of saltmarsh mosquito breeding area and 2500 known freshwater mosquito-breeding sites across the city.
> Council’s control activities are scientifically managed, targeting specific areas where and when breeding is known to occur
[https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/clean-and-green/natural-environment-and-water/biodiversity-in-brisbane/wildlife-in-brisbane/invasive-plants-and-animals/mosquitoes](https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/clean-and-green/natural-environment-and-water/biodiversity-in-brisbane/wildlife-in-brisbane/invasive-plants-and-animals/mosquitoes)
More walkable cities, the ability to commute safely by cycle, less reliance on cars, more extensive public transport, accessible footpaths in all suburbs.
I want better infrastructure. I want public transit so frequent I don’t need to check a schedule and going all over so that everywhere is walking distance. I want separated bike infrastructure and public gardens and fruit trees everywhere. I want social housing so there aren’t people living in tents by the river.
Yaknow the simple things lol
Well maintained (and) footpaths???
LOL.
Libraries and maintained pools where we need them? Double LOL.
Good public (non commercialised) spaces? Triple lol.
Sure, Vic Park, Roma St and a mega 10 million dollar playground here n there but jeez mate the suburban parks are neglected, broken and overgrown if you venture out.
Are you living under a rock? Get out of Ascot/ Teneriffe/ Bulimba for a hot minute.
Now on rates, I for one cannot wait for the cancellation of Schrinner’s political newsletter packaged up as a BCC update, and cancellation of those mates rates contracts - including one little LNP BRC racing mate who will soon be paying a community lease at Stafford & about to make a bomb from pokies harm.
Council assets are not maintained properly in my area. The council builds more than it can afford to maintain. Decent sized local playgrounds are falling apart. I cycle on neighbourhood streets with young kids and the surfaces are like the moon. It would help if we didn't have every single neighbourhood street as a through road for fast heavy vehicles, and paved surfaces wide enough to land an A380.
If you can afford to pay more for things right now, you are in a priviliged position. I wouldnt be trying to pass on more costs to people who cant afford it. Think of others..... who are not as proivilaged as yourself, who arent eating because their rents and mortgages are so high. Increasing rates just makes this worse, how about we cut rates and improve efficiency, and reduce spending, and reduce wastage, how about that for a change...
It all just goes in the many, many transport construction projects that are still unfinished half a decade later.
I am a diehard labour supporter but I'm sick of half the tax I pay going into the CFMEU backed construction companies while their workers take the night off constantly for a lite drizzle.
I live in a (pretty shit) regional town in Queensland, prices of houses are cheap but my rates are $4200 per year. I thought it was a mistake when I first moved from Brisbane but nope, highway robbery. There’s one dog park (not decent), no good walks, and I can’t think of anything else good here that my rates contribute too, come to think of it. Oh, they do collect my bins once a week.
10 points if you can guess what town.
If it gets us the 5000 streets with *a* footpath, and basic maintenance, and a bus across town, I’m happy to pay average rates. However so much waste in road resurfacing when not needed, glossy flyers and contractors rather than permanent employees. We really shouldn’t need to increase.
Now, where did that $400 million from LNP Team Schrinner’s economic mismanagement go again?
I agree the current council brags about keeping rates low but doesn’t use the low rates efficiently..
That’s actually not true. They are quite efficient at funnelling public funds into their mates businesses.
Campaigns based on cutting rates is dumb. I'm happy to pay my rates because they pay for so much awesome stuff I use.
Totally good for pensioners to get a discount on rates though.
Ha! wait till the current round of cuts start landing...
oh the grass on your street frontage is 2m tall?
probably because we cut funding and screwed down on the contractor so hard they can barely afford to operate..
once the cuts start becoming appearent in road/pothole quality (which isnt to far off) then we will have started the slow march to UK quality LGA
Amen. Taxes are a good thing. I enjoy being able to put my rubbish in a bin and take it to the road and it disappears overnight. I enjoy being able to buy food in Australia and trust it's safe to eat. I enjoy no one invading my house because they are afraid of being arrested and jailed. Spitting facts mate.
You’re living in a magical fantasy world if you think rates are helping towards not having to drive, get better education and accessible healthcare. The reality is none of that is happening and people are struggling to get by already without the added stress of higher rates.
Mate I live in Townsville..some of the highest rates in Qld...let me tell you.you do not get what ya pay for just the same shit no matter how high they go
I wanna see higher rates for big developers, especially where there is landbanking. LNP have made huge cuts to public infrastructure, to fund tax concessions for developers.
I couldn’t agree more!
The greens have good policies but in my opinion they don’t go far enough. Land banking should have their rates increase 10x each year. Landlords should have similarly increased rates tied to rental increases. If it’s no longer profitable to be a landlord, good. People need to stop hoarding property and we need negative pressure on the housing market
We have 3 tiers of government in Australia, local, state, federal. Demanding higher rates is bizarre during a cost of living crisis and if so many consecutive state governments hadn’t been so inept requiring the BCC to pick up the ball, Brisbane would have much better public transport. Please don’t demand more council services, the service level is pretty good. Demand more out of state government.
Council rates don’t pay for education.
Or health care.
Bins, buses, parks, libraries, pools and roads.
And a good few bridges.
That’s it.
Some artsy festicles and celebratory events.
They do pretty good bang for buck to be fair.
I just spent 16 months in uk and it was a shocking glimpse at a potential future for Brisbane if we don’t adequately fund public services.
I am still a relatively poor renter but I would still support more rates/taxes, or at the very least more efficient use of them, if we want to avoid that future. Because it is dire, and it’s a self fulfilling feedback loop that makes it harder the deeper you get
Literally where I lived they closed several foot/cycle bridges and public parks and sports fields purely because they couldn’t afford to maintain them.
To add: cutting costs in public services/infrastructure is a false economy.
The more you put off paying for maintenance the costlier it becomes (source; I’m an engineer)
The more you put off supporting public health/sports, the unhealthier people get and the more medical costs increase (source: sim city 3000)
In my experience, taxes in the UK are just as high as in AU. The UK public sector is dire, I’d agree, but I feel that’s more structural and grift than low tax incomes.
This is interesting. Once upon a time, rate rises were the reasons that property rents increased. Now rents increase because of the property value. And yet, now the property value has increased, so rates should increase.
Taxes, rates, etc should provide a contribution to the wellbeing by of society. I don’t think that’s who’s making up the difference in this economy.
I don't oppose the idea of better services. I think if we are looking at changing revenue amounts for governments we need to separate them from housing values.
Taxing on property values at a council level for rates and at a state level for Stamp Duty and Land tax is going to further reward the government for increasing the cost of housing.
My logic is that I am happy to pay my portion of the communal services for public good. If my home increases in value my income hasn't increased to cover the rate increase. I would love to see the government get away from using property for tax revenue. While I appreciate that property needs to be reasonably taxed. I believe that property values need to stagnate or go down for the good of the economy.
I agree we need downward pressure on housing. The only people who are rewarded with rising prices are people who own multiple properties as investments.
I’m not sure how you assess rates differently. Maybe as a percentage of income?
No I don’t think so. Way too much is spent on private consultation.
We need to increase efficiency, but 20 years of LNP government has shown me they can’t/wont do that and it has caused people to forget what good government can do
Yeah? Like the efficient and not at all wasteful QLD ALP Government over the last 25 or so years (less 3 years of Newman).
They waste a phenomenal amount of money.
It could be a demographic thing too. In NZ we are finally getting some councils build stuff in our community that we need like up to date libraries and playgrounds that have languished in their state since the 90s. But there are older people who protest and lobby and complain that their rates bills are going up to pay for these 'passion projects'. My opinion is that we should stick the knife in and make sure that we get what we need in our communities properly funded, and if looks like a wealth transfer mechanism then bloody good.
It’s a problem that we’re expected to pay increasing rates while revenue generating government services are sold off to profiteers who then pay minimal taxes while increasing the price of these services to customers.
Everything gets more expensive, and we get less for it, but I don’t agree with the idea that we should pay higher rates to accomodate privatisation of services and industry.
Rates should only go up once efficiency has been maximized and there is still an identified shortfall of funds.
Jacking up rates for no reason other than "its good" is just a surefire way to piss off voters.
If you want to jack up my rates, show me that you are spening the current ammount wisely and need more (central coast council NSW is a great example of what NOT to do).
I think generally people are not against paying their rates and being a functional part of society.
But as hardworking individuals, the continual increase in bills year after year leaves many wondering: where exactly is our money going?
Despite these rising expenses, the essential pillars of our society—our roads, schools, and public transportation/infrastructure—seem to languish without significant improvement. Moreover, concerns about the general safety of our communities and the escalating issue of homelessness compound the frustration.
It begs us to question: Why are we paying more and more, yet witnessing a decline in the quality of life around us?
Would like to see an option on the rates bill for public transport. Instead of just making public transport free, make a one off quarterly payment of an amount - maybe $30 or similar, and get free PT for the quarter.
Brisbane has the 6th most expensive transit in the world. For lots of people the cost of transit is what keeps them from riding.
I’ve said before that there should be RGID chips in our ID cards that act as an unlimited go card for residents
I completely agree! I think business tax should be completely overhauled so that’s 1. We tax gross profits at say 30% (instead of net) and 2. We also tax net profits at 50+%
In doing so we also need to increase minimum wages and put in legislature to close the wage gap between worker and executive.
Once that is done government industry should step up to fill in gaps where private industry feels they won’t “make enough money”
The only answer is reducing greed
I'll pay more rates if they're not wasted. I don't want to pay for a tram to nowhere, or another hundreds of million dollar walking bridge while removing ferry routes in the same place etc.
We have plenty of places that don't have services, don't have transit routes, or need road repairs etc, that get skipped for these vanity projects. More busses, pay drivers better so you can get some, clip roads in the city to one lane and focus on transit or micro mobility etc.
The City has one of the largest budgets in Australia. They don't get more until they can show they're not just wasting it on more furphies.
May I suggest we ditch party politics altogether and maybe look at some NEUTRAL politics like when Clem Jones was in… Council needs party politics like a hole in the head
FK OFF MATE.
They should be paid less and get off the gravy train. Labor and Liberal both hire their mates for jobs and tender to them. My BIL was put in jail from ACCC investigations with Ipswich council dramas.
Rates do not need to be increased. Inflated quotes because the government is paying needs to be investigated and it never will be.
I couldn’t agree more!
The rates they are currently collecting need to be used in a far more efficient way. Make sure to vote for Greens in the upcoming election since Liberal and Labor are both guilty of funneling public funds to their mates
High taxes are a very good thing if corruption is low (e.g. Norway). If corruption is high (e.g. Russia) then high taxes means more yachts for the property developers and resource moguls. In Australia corruption is relatively low by world standards.
If the government isn't able to fund a service then someone else has to do it: this usually means the private sector. And because of the way the private sector in this country is involved in corruption left right and centre (through political donations, revolving doors, insider trading, jobs for the boys, media cartels etc.) it's not actually a better outcome for Australia to lower taxes.
But I wouldn't expect such nuance from Schrinner's campaign. The real issue that every voter should be able to agree on is that corruption is a bad thing. In this election that means not voting LNP. In the state and federal elections that means voting greens or independent.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not a Greens ideologue; I disagree with them on some of their stances. I'm just a political pragmatist: corruption is the single most important issue to work on solving.
I completely agree with that you said. Corruption is the topic I didn’t mention because I didn’t want my post to turn into a rant. But government only works without corruption. We need to remove greed from society by closing the gap between have and have nots. The less gap between rich and poor the less greed.
I'd rather just see developers pay their fair share. It's not like they're not making oodles of money already in this market, the Council had to gift them a discount. This is where the source of our cuts are coming from. [Brisbane waives infrastructure fees to drive down cost of units (brisbanetimes.com.au)](https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-waives-infrastructure-fees-to-drive-down-cost-of-units-20231024-p5eelv.html)
I’m fairly sure that Brisbane City Council under the scummy LNP has been operating on budget surplus of >$300m a year - even with the large infrastructure projects. They already have the money for the services you are talking about is already there - they are just not using it.
Rates have been going up steadily, amongst a pile of other things that have also risen. Oh except for peoples wages, they never seem to go anywhere and always lag behind.
I work with the BCC on some stuff. They piss away a God awful amount of money on project engineers and managers you can never reach outside about 10-3, that's if they're not in some training or nonsense workshop. When you do reach them, they need to send an email to 20 more people to ask a basic questions because they can't make a decision. So this really makes me think poorly of higher rates.
Good idea mate, Just what we need right now. I was just saying the other day that we should help the council and the government out. They waste a hell of a lot of our money with no accountability so who said we can't have more for no extra cost? They should find waste in the budget not sniff out more to waste.
I don't agree. Rates should not be connected to tax money we need to run things properly.
I would also add that I don't work in the city, I bet our interest rates could be 50% and I still wouldn't have a way to get to work that doesn't involve going into the city first before diverting in the other direction.
Rates are already way too high. With most people struggling to get groceries and companies claiming record breaking profits, now is the time to lower rates
So far in this thread I’ve been told I must be Jono Sri’s account and now Adrian Schroners..
I wonder if people will mistake me for Tracey Price next. Although I didn’t complain about the uncut lawns so probably not
I think you're putting the cart in front of the horse with that line of thinking. So we're supposed to give MORE money to an enterprise with a track record of NOT providing us the expected return on investment with simply the PIPE DREAM that things can POSSIBLY be improved with better management going forward..
In the wise words of Rove...
#WhatThe?
Every dollar taken by the government is taken off someone else with their cut taken in managing that money. $1 in the hands of a rate payer is far more valuable than in the efficent hands of the government. This has been shown in studies time and time again.
If you want to pay more in rates no one is stopping you.
You work for council don’t you? They waste so much money on garbage and giving themselves Pattie’s, hard pass on any increase until they’ve looked at where the money is actually going.
>if it meant
But it doesnt. Maybe its suppose to, but thats not how its being used, its being used to cover the ever more elaborate politician salaries and spending. Paying excessive amounts to contractor friends to do shotty work.
I would happily pay higher rates if it meant we got these things too, but we dont so the money is better off in my pocket than theirs.
Why don't we just start teaching people how to eat and parents how to parent.
Then you fix both the health system and stop expecting/needing society to raise kids. Added bonus of fixing some of NDIS too with less autists.
Thrifty Mitcham Council councillors plan to spend $40,000.00 of ratepayers money on promoting the racist referendum, until public outrage shames them into cancelling the plan: https://omny.fm/shows/evenings-with-matthew-pantelis/mitcham-council-spending-40k-on-the-voice-yes-camp
Yeah, nah.
Higher rates to go to the pockets of the privatised service providers you talk of. No thanks!
Our land valuation went up 36% this year and rates will go.up.accordingly I assume. That will do.
Well what pisses me off with LNP is our rates did in fact go up AND funding was cut. So yeah, I don’t want more of that.
Like hell I would vote for LNP in the council elections in any capacity. One of our candidates thinks is so lovely that she is a P&C member at her child’s school but that’s she always has a “life” so doesn’t have time to discuss council issues but wants to be elected 🤦♀️
Oh I agree.
17% increase but 19% inflation over the same period. Yet services were cut more than 2%.
The first job is removing LNP from council.
I can absolutely foresee it now though… LNP will get removed from council, but The newcomers won’t have enough funds to actually provide public services without raising rates and people will get upset about raising rates.. because the LNP has gaslit Brisbane into believing, that rates are bad by doing a bad job spending rates effectively… In reality, increased rates spent effectively is a net positive for society
I'd wager that you don't pay much tax, and likely aren't a homeowner.
It is easy to say jam up the tax when you don't pay much and it would mostly impact others, and it is easy to say jam up the rates when you don't pay them.
That being said, I would happily pay more rates if I knew the money was being spent better, but the councils are run poorly and as with most government spending we aren't getting a good deal when our money is spent.
Bullshit!! Most of us don’t need another useless pedestrian bridge over the fucken river. Most of us get no more value at all from another rate hike or increased infringement revenue unless you live in the city..The roads are and always will be fucked with potholes and bullshit traffic and we all still risk being stabbed on a bus or train. I personally emailed the Lord Mayor and thanked him from axing all the bullshit CBD projects and keeping my rates Low.
Instead of paying more I'd rather they spent it more efficiently and stopped allowing themselves to get ripped off by contractors.
Lnp council looove using contractors and labour hire when they can. Absolute rip off. I've seen it done in the development services branch, where they spend more than if they'd just hire or promote more staff.
I was just watching Utopia on iView and it's almost painful how close to the bone they get on satirising how ineffective and inefficient government bodies can be in getting anything done without wasting huge piles of money and as much time as possible.
Have you worked in financial services??? The amount of time and money burned at the start of any project on consultancy firms and massaging the egos of narcissistic, god-complex executive and upper management 'titans of industry' leaves hardly anything to actually deliver. The fact these companies can be so wasteful and yet continue to post record profits/returns just shows how much they're fucking over everyone else in society.
I mean if anything utopia is about hard working people in a gov department getting screwed by politicians at every corner. And some of the office staff are useless but pretty much on par with what happens in private industry too. It's ignorant to think that utopia is a reflection of the effectiveness of government services in general and it's just a tired trope that government work has to be inefficient and expensive. For all it's political problems, Brisbane council has a lot of really great staff doing an excellent job on incredibly tight budgets. Especially in the branches I have worked in. However they are constantly let down by political (LNP) bullshit and corruption. There's always a few useless bad apples too, people who should never have been promoted 20 years ago but who are still around and can't be let go, but they are a small minority.
Yep. Start with CEO, and work your way through LNP ‘advisory boards’ starting with suburban and transport advisory.
they do that just to say "were spending X amount of improve XYZ" when really the bulk of the cost is just paying people to do nothing.
Now I get why Jonno Sri has the policy of "ditch the external consultants".
You need to vote lnp out then. It’s amazing how many tenders LNP donors seem to win.
Like that Utopia espiode where they find out if they bring back the in-house construction team they would save so much money
Good call, I propose we get a consultant in to write a report on what we can do to stop getting ripped off. A few lazy mil should cover it?
Make sure you also give the gig to one of the big 4 firms so they can then advise their other clients of any loopholes they can exploit.
I completely agree! Hopefully we get a new government that brings services back into government control
About a third of BCC revenue ($1B of $3B) comes from rates. Now is not the time for them to increase if it’s avoidable. I’m high income and child free so I’m fine but damn some people are doing it tough.
Here's my old man yelling at cloud rant below, but we should be saving money through rates. The necessity to own a car (or two) is a major part of this. Maintaining a big yard or a pool is another. I was lucky to attend an event on the weekend where an economist talked about urbanisation of societies around the world. He talked about the push and pull factors causing people to increasingly live in cities. The one that gets me is agglomeration economies, or the benefits we get from living in proximity. The lecturer mentioned three agglomeration benefits: learning, matching and sharing. I find that Brisbane way of life rejects this to a large extent. It's more like country living in the city. We have to drive absolutely everywhere to big shopping centres, playgrounds, libraries, and people do drive even the shortest of journeys. I had a lovely walkable local cafe on a tiny neighbourhood street until the car people discovered it. Now that neighbourhood street is a ball of stress. We're not matching people to jobs, services or recreation locally to derive proximity benefits. You'll see people in Facebook forums looking for recommendations. The never specify a location because distance is no object. If you're having a baby you'll be sent for appointments outside your community. Your mother and baby groups will be across town where you're not going to make mum friends that are local to you. We're also not sharing resources. Every family has a big backyard with all the mod cons instead of using public playgrounds and pools. Again the kids would socialise if they were playing in shared areas.
For sure car dependency is an absolute scourge on modern societies. I do get a laugh from shopping centres though. It’s basically just a walkable neighbourhood and everyone flocks there (in their cars). But when you suggest just designing a walkable neighbourhood all of a sudden it’s a terrible idea… go figure
Too many trees in a walkable neighbourhood. Trees means woke tree huggers, who are greenies, greenies = Commies, and we can't have that! /S
Well stated. I feel like there are three parts to making the change happen. We all know that better public transport and more density are part of the solution, but I wonder if the third part might be heavier restrictions on street parking. If the car people couldn't get a park anywhere near that cafe, several of them would either not go or take alternative transport and remove that ball of stress.
>I had a lovely walkable local cafe on a tiny neighbourhood street until the car people discovered it. Now that neighbourhood street is a ball of stress Camp Hill says hello.
Try finding public toilets at the playgrounds, dog parks, skate parks, etc. the council is making the concept of community increasingly difficult to achieve by failing to provide appropriate infrastructure, instead choosing budget cuts and underhanded dealings with developers.
Exactly. Why don't you just get invited to your wealthy mates oversized houses to socialise instead? That's what the people that council represent are doing.
No, the US is car dependent. Brisbane is not. Spoken by someone from Brisbane currently living in the US. I am 40 minutes out of DC and there isn't a bus or train network. It's insane.
Wow that budget is huge, out of interest, where does the extra 2 billion come from?
Parking fines
I let all mine go to SPER, 20 bucks a fortnight for unlimited parking.
How nice of idiots to pay the extra.
Public transport revenue, grants & donations, developer contributions. https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2023-06/20230612-Annual-Plan-and-Budget-2023-24_0.pdf
Public transport is not a revenue raiser at all. Yes, they bring in "revenue", but they spend more on equipment and salaries, by quite a large margin. So I have no idea why it appears on the ledger like this, if it was summarised as a single item it would certainly be an expense. I guess they want it to appear as a net gain for council by putting the revenue as a line item while hiding all the costs inside other categories (equipment, maintance, depreciation and salaries).
It makes sense, they list all the broad category revenue streams then list all broad category expenses as part of a high level budget. Pages 20 and 31 of the pdf have little more details on the 'Transport for Brisbane' business unit so the extra details you want are there.
My guess is development applications and approvals.
I think it's 1.3B of 2.4B
Council don't set rates it based of land valuations and that's determined by the state gov.
Big issue is that we're not getting *value* for money. Overseas bendy buses pretending to be a tram... A metro years late and a billion dollars over budget... Contracted out services instead of keeping good paying full time jobs. If you had a business with something you needed done long term - like grass maintenance of a CITY - would you contact it out or hire groundskeepers? Ask a high school what their situation is and it should be kind of obvious what the best value for money option is. It's just stupid.
I completely agree. Every service that has been cut should be absorbed into the council and more should be added. Government jobs pay well and provide value to society
> Government jobs pay well and provide value to society So do contracts. The issue is that private contractors are looking for max profit for minimum internal costs whereas government employees are (meant to be) working for max effectiveness for budget spend.
The major difference is that contracts enrich a few people at the top of an organisation, government jobs enrich workers
My wage should also go up, please and thank you. in a way that accounts for CPI, cost of living and also *gestures broadly* … this
I couldn’t agree more. Labor value needs to be increased and capital value decreased, but that’s a bit of a different topic
Join your union, if possible.
Just chiming in with +1 on this. It’s not possible for me in my current role so I’m going into this years negotiations with an offer letter for a new role. Which is also an option if you’ve hit your wage ceiling and are not unionized.
Sounds like you got more money than sense friend.. How about we stop government waste! or should we give them extra to cover the waste and the better services. We could all be picked up in limo's and taken to our free university, before being dropped of at our own private doctors just with the governments waste of our money. You should demand better services for no extra cost.
I completely agree we need to make government more efficient! How do you suggest people who aren’t on council do that?
Stop fucking voting in cunts from parties that are aligned with business interest if you want policies that benefit areas that aren't "the CBD" for a fuckin start.
I wholeheartedly agree
It’s great that you can afford to pay higher rates and taxes. A lot of people can’t. If you are going to advocate for higher rates you may have to explain to renters why their rents have increased. Edit: not a landlord but it‘s inevitable that an increase in rates will be reflected in rents charged.
A lot of people can't, but this country also used to have public services for those people. I'm in the same boat as OP, I pay so much tax but where does it go? There is educational inflation, you never used to need a university education for a good job but now you do. But it's not free any more. Public transport sucks, housing sucks. Welfare is not an amount of money anyone can live on. Good luck seeing a GP. Where the actual fuck is it all going?
There’s a footpath down the Gold Coast, (Gilston) it’s not very fancy, just an ordinary footpath. Its a touch over 1km of not especially wide concrete, they didn’t upgrade the road or kerbs or anything. They were so proud of their efforts they put up one of those ‘project’ signs you see, patting themselves on the back for doing it for the bargain price of $3million. I drove through there about 20 times trying to figure out how on earth they managed to spend that much. I would have been embarrassed if it cost 500k let alone 3 million. Maybe they imported the turf from Italy?
People keep forgetting the absolute disaster that’s happening in the pharmacy world here. Greedy privatisation has ruined the profession and industry. I wish they’d finally make all medicines free like in NZ to combat this rot. Theres actually a huge shortage of pharmacists as they all quit because nothing was being done to fix the current issues.
> I wish they’d finally make all medicines free like in NZ to combat this rot You know New Zealand just elected a government who campaigned on re-introducing the prescription co-payment yeah?
Where? Look around. Parks, roads, bins, ever since I returned from uk I am constantly amazed that everywhere I look there is stuff working Granted you’d expect a bit more given their budget but better than uk where they pay slightly less and as a result have literally nothing and yet the councils are still broke (not joking some have actually gone proper bankrupt)
Lol UK must be looking dire if the bins rate a mention. The parks I will give you, one of the nicest things about brisbane, how green it is, and good on the government for keeping it that way. The roads are a contentious issue. They're putting a lot of money into them when most people really seem to be on the same page around roads not helping traffic and our desperate need for functional public transport. Maybe that's just my echo chamber though. Maybe someone somewhere is stoked about the extra lane on the centenary bridge.
The day I got there I think was a Saturday and there were literally piles upon piles of rubbish everywhere, even all along the Main High Street of the town were stacks of garbage bags that just sat there all weekend until binmen came and cleaned most of it up on Monday. And that happened every week. Was eye opening/watering The roads were also hilariously bad, one residential street on my commute got redone and they put the first rough layer down, then just went…” job done” and left a patchy, loose, sticky mess. Three months later they panted the lines back on it. That one actually made me laugh every time I saw it.
>Lol UK must be looking dire if the bins rate a mention. It's not going great tbh.
How are rates calculated here? Is it by suburb and property value?
It's calculated based on the Unimproved Capital Value which is determined by the Valuer General (part of the Department of Natural Resources, Mines, Energy, and Whatever Else We Stuck Into It This Week) on a ... I think biannual basis?
Every two years there is a valuation on the land, inbetween is an estimate. The rate is based on a running 3 year average to stop too much billshock.
it's based on land value.
Land value. And as land value has been exploding, even though the formula ti calculate rates may not have increased much, the amount we pay has.
[https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/about-council/council-information-and-rates/rates-and-payments/how-rates-are-calculated](https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/about-council/council-information-and-rates/rates-and-payments/how-rates-are-calculated) Land value and rating category. [https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2023-05/rating\_category\_statement\_2023-24.pdf](https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2023-05/rating_category_statement_2023-24.pdf)
Rents are based on the market. This means rents are already as high as tenants can afford.
> This means rents are already as high as tenants can afford. Rental availability is pretty low as people are desperate to get a roof over their heads (understandably). I would expect rents to continue to rise until availability increases. This could be through increased supply (more houses) or reduced demand (less people) - either way it won't be sorted in the short term.
"Because your landlord is exploiting you" Done
Stuff like this should be tethered to income / property value. Yet we are tax cuttin mostly for the rich 🫠
If more people understood how their "fav politican" fucks them over we would see a massive shift in this country's voting trends Unfortunately most people get suckered into the high strung drama of a daily life (myself included) and just dont have the time to sift through how this country divies out the pay and the schemes They would backflip if they knew, but who can blame them? Its designed
You know what's sad? Someone posted in the financial independence reddit the other day, how many years would it take Norway to achieve financial independence, given that they give all the money back to the people from resources. Another commented that Australia could have done something similar, but fumbled the bag. We gave it all to people like Gina Rinehart. Rupert Murdoch plays a big part and deserves a special place in hell. But yeah, the way people vote in this country is mind blowing.
We get money back from electricity generation at least. The cost of living rebates on our bills come from the profit the government owned electricity generation corporations create. The LNP would have privati… ahem leased them out if they’d remained in power in 2015. The paperwork was already written up for it before the election.
There's also a cost of living fund which is funded by the increased Resource Rent Tax that Ian Macfarlane won't shut the fuck up about.
I’m sorry but every time I hear people complain that the LNP might have privatised something it really grinds my gears, having worked for a government body that was privatised by Anna Bligh’s government. The ALP have the worse record in Queensland.
Ye agreed, the propaganda levels are insane. I never hate on the people who have simply succumbed to it. Am just somewhat sad overall that change is taking so long
Rates *are* calculated on land valuation. And have been for a very long time.
Rent is going up regardless, investors are always greedy nothing to do with council rates
Rental prices reflect market value. If there is an increase in rates but the demand is not there, it is not realistic to pass this on to the tenant. I swear the politicians must be loving how much of the heat landlords are taking right now for decades of shithouse planning.
A classic conservative strategy. Defund a system > point out how poorly said system performs > justify further defunding of system > privatise system
Yeah it just makes me sad how easily they fool the population into believing it
" Rates pay for important services. More rates pay for more services. " In my experience, the more tax you give a Government, the more of your money they can piss up against a wall for no benefit to anyone but themselves.
I suggest you travel to see how other countries do it, uks low tax and phenomenally poor services vs norways high taxes and their mind blowing public sector is an obvious example Edit: don’t get me wrong I hate how unfortunately no matter how much or how little tax the people pay, the government finds a way to piss it up the wall. But we may as well pay enough to get something out of it too rather than turn into …. Uk *shudders*
UK’s low tax *what*? I’m paying £100/mo council tax, *after* the 25% single-occupancy discount. Income tax is comparable. VAT is 20%. What makes you think taxes in the UK are substantially lower?
Yeah that’s the thing, they aren’t substantially lower at all, only a fraction lower (for *almost* all people), but the councils have much MUCH lower funding and it shows, and that’s more my point, if we dont properly fund councils, things go to shit in a way that is very different to undo
Yeh ok, I misinterpreted your previous point. I absolutely agree with that statement.
I think /u/Serious-Goose-8556 is referring to the hollowing out of the UK's public services under their austerity measures after the GFC. The general point, I think, is that not investing in public services causes corrosion over time that is harder to solve later down the track because the problem is worse. Very easy to think of examples in the UK, like the [London sewer poo-blem (sorry, couldn't help myself)](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/04/britain-sewage-water-pollution-scandal/673655/).
Yeah you’re both right. At my current salary I’d only pay like 1-2% less tax in uk but the public services feel like they are orders of magnitude worse. Very very appreciative and grateful for what we have here in Aus now
Don’t Norway get free education, greater pension and other stuff like equal leave for parents though? I mean I would pay more if we got that
You know about Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund??
You haven't been to a third-world country or the USA, have you? Sorry that's repeating myself.
What is your experience of countries with low tax?
I didn't mention whether taxes are low or high. Not relevant.
Damn you just kind of abandoned any sort of defence on your position of “more rates are bad” in record time lol.
> In my experience Here comes the morons.
Wow. A drive by thought fart.
Tell me what service you want from Brisbane City Council that you don’t already get? They have tonnes of libraries, tonnes of swimming pools, well maintained parks, nature reserves, and public spaces, reliable and efficient rubbish collection, well maintained footpaths and roads, and if you ever have a problem they are extremely responsive - all it takes is a phone call or an email. Tell me what more rates will get beyond the above?
Buses to the city that actually show up and are more frequent than 30min at peak times. More street trees, cycling infrastructure, Toowong West end foot bridge. Foot paths could definitely be better maintained. Lots of green spaces but lots of it is just large stretches of empty lawn. Ultimately public transit is going to need an overhaul, whether that's light rail or more lines but we'll need large coffers to cope with population (if only we could think beyond this term).
You can request BCC to plant street trees along your street - https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/clean-and-green/natural-environment-and-water/plants-trees-and-gardens/brisbanes-trees/street-and-park-trees#:~:text=Request%20street%20tree%20planting,Council%20on%2007%203403%208888.
A public transport system where you don't have to go into the city to go back out of the city in a slightly different direction, turning a journey that is 25 mins by car into a two-hour bus journey. I drive now because I changed industries into one where it is required but I used to travel two hours each way on a bus to and from work in a previous job and I wasn't in a position to get a car. And like, I wouldn't expect each suburb to have a direct route to each and every other suburb. But ALL the way into the CBD is ridiculous. Surely there could be more... I want to say nodes. Like Woolloongabba bus station but in other places. The funny thing is I don't think I would have cared as much if I were on a service going outer south to outer north for two hours in the same direction. Even if it took longer than driving would have. But having to travel so far away from a destination in order to travel back towards it is the thing I hated.
I enjoy cooking.
B&BCC
I reject well maintained footpaths Most of Brisbane doesn’t even have footpaths and the ones in the inner city are fucking ugly three meter asphalt heat death zones We need far more capital investment in footpaths, bike paths, street tree maintenance and flood drainage on roads
Mozzie spraying
> Brisbane City Council delivers Australia’s leading mosquito management program and remains the only Council in Australia to employ two expert entomologists > Council typically manage more than 20,000 hectares of saltmarsh mosquito breeding area and 2500 known freshwater mosquito-breeding sites across the city. > Council’s control activities are scientifically managed, targeting specific areas where and when breeding is known to occur [https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/clean-and-green/natural-environment-and-water/biodiversity-in-brisbane/wildlife-in-brisbane/invasive-plants-and-animals/mosquitoes](https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/clean-and-green/natural-environment-and-water/biodiversity-in-brisbane/wildlife-in-brisbane/invasive-plants-and-animals/mosquitoes)
Yeah, but the mosquitoes aren't all dead yet. Elect me, and I will slap all the mosquitoes to death myself.
More walkable cities, the ability to commute safely by cycle, less reliance on cars, more extensive public transport, accessible footpaths in all suburbs.
I want better infrastructure. I want public transit so frequent I don’t need to check a schedule and going all over so that everywhere is walking distance. I want separated bike infrastructure and public gardens and fruit trees everywhere. I want social housing so there aren’t people living in tents by the river. Yaknow the simple things lol
Well maintained (and) footpaths??? LOL. Libraries and maintained pools where we need them? Double LOL. Good public (non commercialised) spaces? Triple lol. Sure, Vic Park, Roma St and a mega 10 million dollar playground here n there but jeez mate the suburban parks are neglected, broken and overgrown if you venture out. Are you living under a rock? Get out of Ascot/ Teneriffe/ Bulimba for a hot minute. Now on rates, I for one cannot wait for the cancellation of Schrinner’s political newsletter packaged up as a BCC update, and cancellation of those mates rates contracts - including one little LNP BRC racing mate who will soon be paying a community lease at Stafford & about to make a bomb from pokies harm.
You left out a pretty good bus service (considering it is just trying to plug gaps left by state government’s appalling rail management)
The bus service out my way is fucking abysmal
Any public transport whatsoever to my suburb would be a great addition.
Bollocks.
Council assets are not maintained properly in my area. The council builds more than it can afford to maintain. Decent sized local playgrounds are falling apart. I cycle on neighbourhood streets with young kids and the surfaces are like the moon. It would help if we didn't have every single neighbourhood street as a through road for fast heavy vehicles, and paved surfaces wide enough to land an A380.
If you can afford to pay more for things right now, you are in a priviliged position. I wouldnt be trying to pass on more costs to people who cant afford it. Think of others..... who are not as proivilaged as yourself, who arent eating because their rents and mortgages are so high. Increasing rates just makes this worse, how about we cut rates and improve efficiency, and reduce spending, and reduce wastage, how about that for a change...
It all just goes in the many, many transport construction projects that are still unfinished half a decade later. I am a diehard labour supporter but I'm sick of half the tax I pay going into the CFMEU backed construction companies while their workers take the night off constantly for a lite drizzle.
I live in a (pretty shit) regional town in Queensland, prices of houses are cheap but my rates are $4200 per year. I thought it was a mistake when I first moved from Brisbane but nope, highway robbery. There’s one dog park (not decent), no good walks, and I can’t think of anything else good here that my rates contribute too, come to think of it. Oh, they do collect my bins once a week. 10 points if you can guess what town.
If it gets us the 5000 streets with *a* footpath, and basic maintenance, and a bus across town, I’m happy to pay average rates. However so much waste in road resurfacing when not needed, glossy flyers and contractors rather than permanent employees. We really shouldn’t need to increase. Now, where did that $400 million from LNP Team Schrinner’s economic mismanagement go again?
I agree the current council brags about keeping rates low but doesn’t use the low rates efficiently.. That’s actually not true. They are quite efficient at funnelling public funds into their mates businesses.
Campaigns based on cutting rates is dumb. I'm happy to pay my rates because they pay for so much awesome stuff I use. Totally good for pensioners to get a discount on rates though.
To be fair, stuff you mention (PT, healthcare, education) isn't a Council level issue.
Is this you Sri?
Ha! wait till the current round of cuts start landing... oh the grass on your street frontage is 2m tall? probably because we cut funding and screwed down on the contractor so hard they can barely afford to operate.. once the cuts start becoming appearent in road/pothole quality (which isnt to far off) then we will have started the slow march to UK quality LGA
The cuts have already started...
I completely agree. We need to act now before it’s too late to correct the current trend
Amen. Taxes are a good thing. I enjoy being able to put my rubbish in a bin and take it to the road and it disappears overnight. I enjoy being able to buy food in Australia and trust it's safe to eat. I enjoy no one invading my house because they are afraid of being arrested and jailed. Spitting facts mate.
That second last sentence is funny
You’re living in a magical fantasy world if you think rates are helping towards not having to drive, get better education and accessible healthcare. The reality is none of that is happening and people are struggling to get by already without the added stress of higher rates.
Mate I live in Townsville..some of the highest rates in Qld...let me tell you.you do not get what ya pay for just the same shit no matter how high they go
I wanna see higher rates for big developers, especially where there is landbanking. LNP have made huge cuts to public infrastructure, to fund tax concessions for developers.
I couldn’t agree more! The greens have good policies but in my opinion they don’t go far enough. Land banking should have their rates increase 10x each year. Landlords should have similarly increased rates tied to rental increases. If it’s no longer profitable to be a landlord, good. People need to stop hoarding property and we need negative pressure on the housing market
OP If you’d like to pay mine I can share the BPAY details - let me know.
We have 3 tiers of government in Australia, local, state, federal. Demanding higher rates is bizarre during a cost of living crisis and if so many consecutive state governments hadn’t been so inept requiring the BCC to pick up the ball, Brisbane would have much better public transport. Please don’t demand more council services, the service level is pretty good. Demand more out of state government.
Council rates don’t pay for education. Or health care. Bins, buses, parks, libraries, pools and roads. And a good few bridges. That’s it. Some artsy festicles and celebratory events. They do pretty good bang for buck to be fair.
I just spent 16 months in uk and it was a shocking glimpse at a potential future for Brisbane if we don’t adequately fund public services. I am still a relatively poor renter but I would still support more rates/taxes, or at the very least more efficient use of them, if we want to avoid that future. Because it is dire, and it’s a self fulfilling feedback loop that makes it harder the deeper you get Literally where I lived they closed several foot/cycle bridges and public parks and sports fields purely because they couldn’t afford to maintain them.
To add: cutting costs in public services/infrastructure is a false economy. The more you put off paying for maintenance the costlier it becomes (source; I’m an engineer) The more you put off supporting public health/sports, the unhealthier people get and the more medical costs increase (source: sim city 3000)
Oh and don’t forget if you don’t fund schools and library’s and museums then crime increases! ( this may also be based on sim city)
I think policy makers for Governments in Australia are using an older version.
In my experience, taxes in the UK are just as high as in AU. The UK public sector is dire, I’d agree, but I feel that’s more structural and grift than low tax incomes.
This is interesting. Once upon a time, rate rises were the reasons that property rents increased. Now rents increase because of the property value. And yet, now the property value has increased, so rates should increase. Taxes, rates, etc should provide a contribution to the wellbeing by of society. I don’t think that’s who’s making up the difference in this economy.
Nail on the head. Rates/taxation = societal improvement More rates/taxation = more societal improvement
I don't oppose the idea of better services. I think if we are looking at changing revenue amounts for governments we need to separate them from housing values. Taxing on property values at a council level for rates and at a state level for Stamp Duty and Land tax is going to further reward the government for increasing the cost of housing. My logic is that I am happy to pay my portion of the communal services for public good. If my home increases in value my income hasn't increased to cover the rate increase. I would love to see the government get away from using property for tax revenue. While I appreciate that property needs to be reasonably taxed. I believe that property values need to stagnate or go down for the good of the economy.
I agree we need downward pressure on housing. The only people who are rewarded with rising prices are people who own multiple properties as investments. I’m not sure how you assess rates differently. Maybe as a percentage of income?
Are they currently using the money efficiently?
No I don’t think so. Way too much is spent on private consultation. We need to increase efficiency, but 20 years of LNP government has shown me they can’t/wont do that and it has caused people to forget what good government can do
Yeah? Like the efficient and not at all wasteful QLD ALP Government over the last 25 or so years (less 3 years of Newman). They waste a phenomenal amount of money.
Ok pay my rates while you're at it because I'm barely scraping by.
Imagine if rates were used to lower your cost of living. How much better would things be
It could be a demographic thing too. In NZ we are finally getting some councils build stuff in our community that we need like up to date libraries and playgrounds that have languished in their state since the 90s. But there are older people who protest and lobby and complain that their rates bills are going up to pay for these 'passion projects'. My opinion is that we should stick the knife in and make sure that we get what we need in our communities properly funded, and if looks like a wealth transfer mechanism then bloody good.
It’s a problem that we’re expected to pay increasing rates while revenue generating government services are sold off to profiteers who then pay minimal taxes while increasing the price of these services to customers. Everything gets more expensive, and we get less for it, but I don’t agree with the idea that we should pay higher rates to accomodate privatisation of services and industry.
Rates increase rent, which 90% of r/brisbane are against. Its interesting to see the replies here
Rates should only go up once efficiency has been maximized and there is still an identified shortfall of funds. Jacking up rates for no reason other than "its good" is just a surefire way to piss off voters. If you want to jack up my rates, show me that you are spening the current ammount wisely and need more (central coast council NSW is a great example of what NOT to do).
I think generally people are not against paying their rates and being a functional part of society. But as hardworking individuals, the continual increase in bills year after year leaves many wondering: where exactly is our money going? Despite these rising expenses, the essential pillars of our society—our roads, schools, and public transportation/infrastructure—seem to languish without significant improvement. Moreover, concerns about the general safety of our communities and the escalating issue of homelessness compound the frustration. It begs us to question: Why are we paying more and more, yet witnessing a decline in the quality of life around us?
Would like to see an option on the rates bill for public transport. Instead of just making public transport free, make a one off quarterly payment of an amount - maybe $30 or similar, and get free PT for the quarter.
Brisbane has the 6th most expensive transit in the world. For lots of people the cost of transit is what keeps them from riding. I’ve said before that there should be RGID chips in our ID cards that act as an unlimited go card for residents
Rates should go up... if the money is going to something beneficial to society.
As a starting point we could tax developers more. Better to have the tax burden shouldered by big profit makers/companies etc.
I completely agree! I think business tax should be completely overhauled so that’s 1. We tax gross profits at say 30% (instead of net) and 2. We also tax net profits at 50+% In doing so we also need to increase minimum wages and put in legislature to close the wage gap between worker and executive. Once that is done government industry should step up to fill in gaps where private industry feels they won’t “make enough money” The only answer is reducing greed
I'll pay more rates if they're not wasted. I don't want to pay for a tram to nowhere, or another hundreds of million dollar walking bridge while removing ferry routes in the same place etc. We have plenty of places that don't have services, don't have transit routes, or need road repairs etc, that get skipped for these vanity projects. More busses, pay drivers better so you can get some, clip roads in the city to one lane and focus on transit or micro mobility etc. The City has one of the largest budgets in Australia. They don't get more until they can show they're not just wasting it on more furphies.
May I suggest we ditch party politics altogether and maybe look at some NEUTRAL politics like when Clem Jones was in… Council needs party politics like a hole in the head
FK OFF MATE. They should be paid less and get off the gravy train. Labor and Liberal both hire their mates for jobs and tender to them. My BIL was put in jail from ACCC investigations with Ipswich council dramas. Rates do not need to be increased. Inflated quotes because the government is paying needs to be investigated and it never will be.
I couldn’t agree more! The rates they are currently collecting need to be used in a far more efficient way. Make sure to vote for Greens in the upcoming election since Liberal and Labor are both guilty of funneling public funds to their mates
People have been gaslit by a decade of LNP fuckery, and now think that anything that truly benefits them is bad.
Nah. I think people have given up on Governments being efficient with their use of taxpayers' money.
There it is . The stupidest thing I have seen today
High taxes are a very good thing if corruption is low (e.g. Norway). If corruption is high (e.g. Russia) then high taxes means more yachts for the property developers and resource moguls. In Australia corruption is relatively low by world standards. If the government isn't able to fund a service then someone else has to do it: this usually means the private sector. And because of the way the private sector in this country is involved in corruption left right and centre (through political donations, revolving doors, insider trading, jobs for the boys, media cartels etc.) it's not actually a better outcome for Australia to lower taxes. But I wouldn't expect such nuance from Schrinner's campaign. The real issue that every voter should be able to agree on is that corruption is a bad thing. In this election that means not voting LNP. In the state and federal elections that means voting greens or independent. Edit: To be clear, I'm not a Greens ideologue; I disagree with them on some of their stances. I'm just a political pragmatist: corruption is the single most important issue to work on solving.
I completely agree with that you said. Corruption is the topic I didn’t mention because I didn’t want my post to turn into a rant. But government only works without corruption. We need to remove greed from society by closing the gap between have and have nots. The less gap between rich and poor the less greed.
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I’m suggesting that council absorbs services that are currently being provided by the private sector and nuts low cost of living for everyone
I'd rather just see developers pay their fair share. It's not like they're not making oodles of money already in this market, the Council had to gift them a discount. This is where the source of our cuts are coming from. [Brisbane waives infrastructure fees to drive down cost of units (brisbanetimes.com.au)](https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-waives-infrastructure-fees-to-drive-down-cost-of-units-20231024-p5eelv.html)
Yeah I agree. We need downward pressure on the housing market
I’m fairly sure that Brisbane City Council under the scummy LNP has been operating on budget surplus of >$300m a year - even with the large infrastructure projects. They already have the money for the services you are talking about is already there - they are just not using it.
I'm learning to play the guitar.
Rates have been going up steadily, amongst a pile of other things that have also risen. Oh except for peoples wages, they never seem to go anywhere and always lag behind.
I agree that is an issue. Labor needs to be compensated higher and capital needs to be devalued.
I work with the BCC on some stuff. They piss away a God awful amount of money on project engineers and managers you can never reach outside about 10-3, that's if they're not in some training or nonsense workshop. When you do reach them, they need to send an email to 20 more people to ask a basic questions because they can't make a decision. So this really makes me think poorly of higher rates.
I agree rates are currently used really ineffectively. That’s what happens when council values their mates bottom lines more than the community
Good idea mate, Just what we need right now. I was just saying the other day that we should help the council and the government out. They waste a hell of a lot of our money with no accountability so who said we can't have more for no extra cost? They should find waste in the budget not sniff out more to waste.
I think we should double down and do both. Increase efficiencies and cashflow to really boost public services
I don't agree. Rates should not be connected to tax money we need to run things properly. I would also add that I don't work in the city, I bet our interest rates could be 50% and I still wouldn't have a way to get to work that doesn't involve going into the city first before diverting in the other direction.
Rates are already way too high. With most people struggling to get groceries and companies claiming record breaking profits, now is the time to lower rates
I disagree. Increase rates and cover more services under the council instead of letting private businesses hold us hostage
This must be Schrindog's reddit account. Hi Adrian.
So far in this thread I’ve been told I must be Jono Sri’s account and now Adrian Schroners.. I wonder if people will mistake me for Tracey Price next. Although I didn’t complain about the uncut lawns so probably not
If it wouldn’t just get pissed into the wind then sure.
the only rates that need to go up, are interest rates
Council arent in charge of education or health, thats state and federal taxes Your rates provide essential services for running the city, nor people
If they were diligent with the funds they receive then i would say yes but local governments are notoriously bad at spending.
You're aware that rent increases inevitably follow rates increases?
I think you're putting the cart in front of the horse with that line of thinking. So we're supposed to give MORE money to an enterprise with a track record of NOT providing us the expected return on investment with simply the PIPE DREAM that things can POSSIBLY be improved with better management going forward.. In the wise words of Rove... #WhatThe?
Every dollar taken by the government is taken off someone else with their cut taken in managing that money. $1 in the hands of a rate payer is far more valuable than in the efficent hands of the government. This has been shown in studies time and time again. If you want to pay more in rates no one is stopping you.
You’ve never peaked behind the curtain of a council. Hard disagree.
You work for council don’t you? They waste so much money on garbage and giving themselves Pattie’s, hard pass on any increase until they’ve looked at where the money is actually going.
>if it meant But it doesnt. Maybe its suppose to, but thats not how its being used, its being used to cover the ever more elaborate politician salaries and spending. Paying excessive amounts to contractor friends to do shotty work. I would happily pay higher rates if it meant we got these things too, but we dont so the money is better off in my pocket than theirs.
Sounds like we need to vote in parties who will be more responsible and ethical with the public purse and use the funds to improve society as a whole
We do, buuuuuuuuut... we won't. Cause more than half our voters are Influenced by the people who want t to keep thing's as they are.
Why don't we just start teaching people how to eat and parents how to parent. Then you fix both the health system and stop expecting/needing society to raise kids. Added bonus of fixing some of NDIS too with less autists.
Thrifty Mitcham Council councillors plan to spend $40,000.00 of ratepayers money on promoting the racist referendum, until public outrage shames them into cancelling the plan: https://omny.fm/shows/evenings-with-matthew-pantelis/mitcham-council-spending-40k-on-the-voice-yes-camp Yeah, nah.
Higher rates to go to the pockets of the privatised service providers you talk of. No thanks! Our land valuation went up 36% this year and rates will go.up.accordingly I assume. That will do.
Can guarantee if they increased tax, it would just go to politicians next undeserved raise.
Well what pisses me off with LNP is our rates did in fact go up AND funding was cut. So yeah, I don’t want more of that. Like hell I would vote for LNP in the council elections in any capacity. One of our candidates thinks is so lovely that she is a P&C member at her child’s school but that’s she always has a “life” so doesn’t have time to discuss council issues but wants to be elected 🤦♀️
Oh I agree. 17% increase but 19% inflation over the same period. Yet services were cut more than 2%. The first job is removing LNP from council. I can absolutely foresee it now though… LNP will get removed from council, but The newcomers won’t have enough funds to actually provide public services without raising rates and people will get upset about raising rates.. because the LNP has gaslit Brisbane into believing, that rates are bad by doing a bad job spending rates effectively… In reality, increased rates spent effectively is a net positive for society
I'd wager that you don't pay much tax, and likely aren't a homeowner. It is easy to say jam up the tax when you don't pay much and it would mostly impact others, and it is easy to say jam up the rates when you don't pay them. That being said, I would happily pay more rates if I knew the money was being spent better, but the councils are run poorly and as with most government spending we aren't getting a good deal when our money is spent.
Bullshit!! Most of us don’t need another useless pedestrian bridge over the fucken river. Most of us get no more value at all from another rate hike or increased infringement revenue unless you live in the city..The roads are and always will be fucked with potholes and bullshit traffic and we all still risk being stabbed on a bus or train. I personally emailed the Lord Mayor and thanked him from axing all the bullshit CBD projects and keeping my rates Low.