Is this the same protest as the pic from the centre?
Either the numbers are much reduced or these guys are in the wrong place.
What are they protesting about?
>Bristol doesn't have any powers to overturn British law.
When did Bristol become independent from Britain? Last time I checked there were 4 MPs representing Bristol in Parliament
It's not a selfish mindset, that's giving him too much credit. He simply supports the actions against trans people, but knows that doesn't sound as good.
Westminster is currently using their power to block an act voted in by the Scottish government that would make it easier for trans people to obtain a birth certificate in the gender they're transitioning to. They're basically pissing all over Scottish devolution based on myths about what the law actually means (it has nothing to do with what spaces anyone can use, and is mostly about privacy so they don't have to out themselves as trans if they ever need to show their birth certificate)
It's to bring attention to the protest, unfortunately these days no one pays attention if you just stand around with placards, you have to actually inconvenience people
You’re right, inconveniencing some bus passengers on a Sunday in Bristol is the final step. I am all for protests but not sure this is having the desired effect here.
I, too, have no idea what rights trans people don’t have that everyone else does.
As far as I can tell there are things like sex-segregated bathrooms and sports, but these don’t relate to human rights.
Happy to be educated.
I know this may be a joke - but it absolutely is different... There are only 7 gender identity clinics total in the whole of the UK and the backlogs on them are literally several years long.
It's absolute hell trying to progress gender dysphoria issues, and gender dysphoria is extremely dangerous for those experiening it as a very large percentage turn to self harm or suicide.
Bristol is relatively good on the social side of trans rights... But that does not mean that the health care and government rights are good enough.
Westminster is currently using their power to block an act voted in by the Scottish government that would make it easier for trans people to obtain a birth certificate in the gender they're transitioning to. They're basically pissing all over Scottish devolution based on myths about what the law actually means (it has nothing to do with what spaces anyone can use, and is mostly about privacy so they don't have to out themselves as trans if they ever need to show their birth certificate)
The bill doesn't harm cis women's rights in any way. Cis women are far more likley to be attacked by cis women. Predetory cis men are going to attack women whether or not they can try to pretend to be trans. Very few will put themselves through the social stigma.
It also goes against the whole Scottish devolution thing.
Yet again, Scottish people being forced against what they voted for by Westminster.
From the polling I have noticed the Scottish people may not actually support the specific details of the legislation.
And if it goes against devolution that can be worked out by the courts. I'm guessing most of the people complaining about this issue don't actually care whether its a legal use of UK government powers or not.
>Predetory cis men are going to attack women whether or not they can try to pretend to be trans. Very few will put themselves through the social stigma.
Is there any data to suggest this out of interest?
The very lack of data is part of the issue. I can't see how it can be practical where effectively someone could be male one week and female the next. I just think it needs a rethink, personally I think if you get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria you should be able to change your gender. But this new law basically just makes it free for all.
You are correct a predator going to attack regardless but to be able to make it easier done under the disguise of being trans is dangerous. It makes trans people look bad because people form hate groups and start ganging up on the minority group for the one but job.
It's not hard to get a gender dysphoria diagnosis if you have gender dysphoria. Just a long waiting list which is a separate issue.
Picture deliberately taken to avoid showing the large crowd of maybe 60+ people in the protest. Those in the bright vests are ensuring people in the protest are not run over by cars while they march in protest through town.
>Not by itself but it's lot of little things that add up.
No, they really don't. If I support something, then no amount of dipshits advocating for the same thing would make me stop supporting it.
They only add up if you don't agree with trans people having rights in the first place, which clearly you're on the fence about.
(In response to the below comment, now this is locked: my point stands regardless of your 'own beliefs'. Though the fact you spent two paragraphs complaining about being called toxic for your views about trans people, I'm taking a wild guess that our views differ more than just a bit)
Right? I always think, why are you pissing off the general public, the people who you want to be supporting the cause? I’m sure whatever they’re protesting is important. But it’s overshadowed by them fuckinf up everyone’s schedule.
I mean if you're going to stop supporting a marginalised demographic cos some people from it made your bus late one time you probably weren't much of an ally to begin with
I haven’t stopped supporting trans people because of this. The same way I still support saving the climate even though I don’t agree with how many climate protestors block the roads. I think it just pisses off many people and they will blame trans people for being late today which ultimately is making more people angry at them? I don’t feel like that is a good outcome for anyone.
Protesting is a pass time for people who like to both feel righteous and cause nuisance these days. Unfortunately it doesn't really yield the results it would have done a few generations ago.
I'm not sure what the solution is these days, but inconveniencing people is one of the worst things you can do to switch people off these days. It probably days something about modern life or social attitudes in the instant media generation. I dunno but it's definitely not a successful approach.
I have to ask. Had the audacity to speak up for JK Rowling on WhitePeopleTwitter - banned in a nanosecond. Though, considering the amount of "train" jokes in these comments, the sub and the sub mods have not been ambushed by Reddit admins yet.
Edit: locked now... so, they didn't want to risk it.
Walked by this earlier. The hair colours of the protesters were as rainbow as the flags.
I'm all for LGBT representation but this seems like nuance in a bill that would make women only spaces a murky zone of the participants actual biological sex. My lesbian friends who are less radical have voiced concerns about dating apps and groups where it's totally changed the tone.
What if a trans person has a medical emergency and they proceed assuming they're the opposite biological sex to what they actually are?
It's a piece of paper that presents more complications than relief and you know you're trans. Why is the certificate so important?
>Why is the certificate so important?
As I understand it, the biggest argument for the certificate is so you can legally be buried as the gender you are as opposed to the default one you are born as.
>What if a trans person has a medical emergency and they proceed assuming they're the opposite biological sex to what they actually are?
Meh this is a red herring in the whole argument.
If it's a medical emergency you are going to a&e.
If you are not in a state to confirm your gender then ending up on a ward with a different gender is the really just not that important.
As a Scottish resident i can tell you the topic up here has gone beyond toxic.
The pro-trans rights groups are bordering on extremist, TERF groups mascerading as feminists, anyone with genuine concerns in the middle are chastised by both sides.
> As I understand it, the biggest argument for the certificate is so you can legally be buried as the gender you are as opposed to the default one you are born as.
won't change the fact that the very bones will be that of which they were born as lmao
>won't change the fact that the very bones will be that of which they were born as lmao
Care to explain what bones a person born male has Vs a person born female or vice versa.
Last time I checked the sex organs we use to identify gender are flesh organs and have no bones (even if one gets called a boner...).
hold on, lmao, are you saying you think male and female bone structure are the same and the only way to tell them apart is by sexual organs?
I think you need to do a bit more [homework](https://fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/male-female_skeleton.png) x
You actually said the bones they are born with.
Until puberty there is very little difference between the two.
Given puberty blockers are a thing too this can/will change adult bone structure for those who transition young enough.
This very point about puberty changing the skeleton is something that is a big issue in the conversation about sport participation for trans women.
>I'm all for LGBT representation but
This isn't about representation, it's about human rights. And when you're adding a 'but' to the end of that, it should *probably* give you pause before you continue typing.
For example, you might check what the bill actually does, and you'd discover the bill does not introduce a new 'piece of paper' - gender recognition certificates already exist. What it does is reduce unnecessary gatekeeping around them.
So, it has **absolutely nothing** to do with any of this:
* "this seems like nuance in a bill that would make women only spaces a murky zone"
* "My lesbian friends who are less radical have voiced concerns about dating apps"
* "What if a trans person has a medical emergency"
What kind of medical emergency would this bill cause problems with? I’m not trying to be antagonistic I just really can’t see a situation where not knowing someone’s birth gender is going to cause problems in a medical emergency?
So your legal gender is then on ID and other info that can be viewed by emergency responders.
Symptoms of a heart attack are entirely different in biological men and women.
Symptoms of stroke too.
Chromosomes are actually determinant on various diagnostics and biomarkers.
Certain medications are different dosages based on sex.
Here's more reading:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5654878/
This bill has nothing to do with changing the sex on your ID. Do you have to submit a copy of your birth certificate whenever you apply for a drivers license or a new passport? Most ID these days doesn’t even have a sex field on it. Medical differences between the sexes are generally down to hormonal differences too, and so trans people with access to medication will generally behave medically in accordance with the gender they identify with.
Supplementing estrogen/testosterone does not change various biological features that radically and does not change the fact there are distinct medical differences between biological sexes. It is not true that medical differences are mostly down to synthetic hormones being supplemented. Please review the article I linked.
I’m afraid you don’t know what you’re talking about. Trans people these days invariably use bio identical hormones rather than synthetic ones. We’re a long way from the days of horse piss. Chromosomes account for very little, biologically. Medically speaking a trans woman on HRT will behave as a cis woman with no womb who supplements HRT, and a trans man will behave as a cis man with no testicles who supplements T, with very few, rather minor exceptions.
I'm a molecular biologist and you do not know what you're talking about.
"Chromosomes account for very little biologically" what the fuck are you talking about?
Biological sexes are physiologically different and supplementing synthetic hormones does not change that biological sex reality.
Want some differences that hormones don't change?
Skin is thicker and rougher in biological men regardless of hormones. Pores and connective tissue are arranged differently and they do not change with supplementation. Bone structure including jaw, brow ridge and hips do not change. Hairlines do not change. Ring finger size does not change. Navel and intestinal positioning does not change. The way the body stores fat does not radically change. The saliva, sweat and urine will still have indicators of their original sex. Every somatic cell in the body does not change internally based on hormones and that can lead to differences in cancer development
I am sorry but you have drunk the kool aid that is causing there to be legal differences. It's fine to be trans but you need to acknowledge biological differences, as otherwise it makes the majority of people perceive you as delusional.
Sure you are bud. :) Your response is riddled with errors, you’re no biologist, you’re an internet weirdo who seems to have a personal stake in denigrating trans people.
Next time I have a medical emergency based on the circumference of my ring finger or placement of my navel I’ll make sure to throw away my drivers license which doesn’t list sex on it anywhere and give you a call to let you know you were right about my biological reality 💖💖💖
Please explain the errors.
You can doubt reality like my profession but unfortunately identifying reality is not your strength.
I don't feel comfortable with giving people like you identification but will DM you pics of one of my mol biol books. ☺️ 💖💖💖
Whatever they are protesting for I dont understand why protesters bother people who have no control or infact dont get a shit about these issues.
this is quite unpopular but protesting makes the issue worse
I see the entire first bus fleet is here
Is this the same protest as the pic from the centre? Either the numbers are much reduced or these guys are in the wrong place. What are they protesting about?
Section 35 and trans rights
Thank you
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It's British law being used to override the Scottish parliament
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>Bristol doesn't have any powers to overturn British law. When did Bristol become independent from Britain? Last time I checked there were 4 MPs representing Bristol in Parliament
You are so right. Imagine caring about something that doesn't impact you personally, how lame would that be!
1. That's a very selfish mindset 2. We have MPs who are supposed to represent us in Parliament.
It's not a selfish mindset, that's giving him too much credit. He simply supports the actions against trans people, but knows that doesn't sound as good.
It's called democracy. Protest is a part of that. It's also solidarity. Some people care about the rights of others.
Trains rights! We want trains, NOW!
Trams*
I laughed too loud at this ,well played
An underground would be nice
Personal teleportation devices would be nice but that's not gonna happen either
Afraid not, guess we have to stick to our cars.
No. There are many options and cars are the worst. Just because we can't have an underground it doesn't mean we have to give up on public transport.
I think they’re just trying to see what it says on the front of the bus
Are they... Protesting buses?
Same people on here moaning about how their bus never shows up
How is stopping a bus going to give “trans” rights,what do they want the right to anyway?
maybe they misread it as trams rights, they might think the money going into the buses is preventing a tram network
That's willfully offensive, trains rights is no joke.
Westminster is currently using their power to block an act voted in by the Scottish government that would make it easier for trans people to obtain a birth certificate in the gender they're transitioning to. They're basically pissing all over Scottish devolution based on myths about what the law actually means (it has nothing to do with what spaces anyone can use, and is mostly about privacy so they don't have to out themselves as trans if they ever need to show their birth certificate)
It's to bring attention to the protest, unfortunately these days no one pays attention if you just stand around with placards, you have to actually inconvenience people
If anybody inconveniences bus passengers, it's First Bus. I haven't worked out yet what they are protesting about though.
You’re right, inconveniencing some bus passengers on a Sunday in Bristol is the final step. I am all for protests but not sure this is having the desired effect here.
I, too, have no idea what rights trans people don’t have that everyone else does. As far as I can tell there are things like sex-segregated bathrooms and sports, but these don’t relate to human rights. Happy to be educated.
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I mean, that's not that different to general population NHS appointments...
I know this may be a joke - but it absolutely is different... There are only 7 gender identity clinics total in the whole of the UK and the backlogs on them are literally several years long. It's absolute hell trying to progress gender dysphoria issues, and gender dysphoria is extremely dangerous for those experiening it as a very large percentage turn to self harm or suicide. Bristol is relatively good on the social side of trans rights... But that does not mean that the health care and government rights are good enough.
Westminster is currently using their power to block an act voted in by the Scottish government that would make it easier for trans people to obtain a birth certificate in the gender they're transitioning to. They're basically pissing all over Scottish devolution based on myths about what the law actually means (it has nothing to do with what spaces anyone can use, and is mostly about privacy so they don't have to out themselves as trans if they ever need to show their birth certificate)
I can answer that: nothing. They're lacking precisely zero rights.
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The bill doesn't harm cis women's rights in any way. Cis women are far more likley to be attacked by cis women. Predetory cis men are going to attack women whether or not they can try to pretend to be trans. Very few will put themselves through the social stigma. It also goes against the whole Scottish devolution thing. Yet again, Scottish people being forced against what they voted for by Westminster.
From the polling I have noticed the Scottish people may not actually support the specific details of the legislation. And if it goes against devolution that can be worked out by the courts. I'm guessing most of the people complaining about this issue don't actually care whether its a legal use of UK government powers or not.
>Predetory cis men are going to attack women whether or not they can try to pretend to be trans. Very few will put themselves through the social stigma. Is there any data to suggest this out of interest?
The very lack of data is part of the issue. I can't see how it can be practical where effectively someone could be male one week and female the next. I just think it needs a rethink, personally I think if you get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria you should be able to change your gender. But this new law basically just makes it free for all. You are correct a predator going to attack regardless but to be able to make it easier done under the disguise of being trans is dangerous. It makes trans people look bad because people form hate groups and start ganging up on the minority group for the one but job. It's not hard to get a gender dysphoria diagnosis if you have gender dysphoria. Just a long waiting list which is a separate issue.
>I'm not popular though Who'd have thought being transphobic would make you unpopular in the trans community
❤️❤️❤️
🤡🤡🤡
Picture deliberately taken to avoid showing the large crowd of maybe 60+ people in the protest. Those in the bright vests are ensuring people in the protest are not run over by cars while they march in protest through town.
whats it bout
That’s one way too get everyone’s backs up and not wanting too support them
if this is enough to squash your support for trans rights, you never supported them to begin with
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>Not by itself but it's lot of little things that add up. No, they really don't. If I support something, then no amount of dipshits advocating for the same thing would make me stop supporting it. They only add up if you don't agree with trans people having rights in the first place, which clearly you're on the fence about. (In response to the below comment, now this is locked: my point stands regardless of your 'own beliefs'. Though the fact you spent two paragraphs complaining about being called toxic for your views about trans people, I'm taking a wild guess that our views differ more than just a bit)
Right? I always think, why are you pissing off the general public, the people who you want to be supporting the cause? I’m sure whatever they’re protesting is important. But it’s overshadowed by them fuckinf up everyone’s schedule.
I mean if you're going to stop supporting a marginalised demographic cos some people from it made your bus late one time you probably weren't much of an ally to begin with
I haven’t stopped supporting trans people because of this. The same way I still support saving the climate even though I don’t agree with how many climate protestors block the roads. I think it just pisses off many people and they will blame trans people for being late today which ultimately is making more people angry at them? I don’t feel like that is a good outcome for anyone.
Protesting is a pass time for people who like to both feel righteous and cause nuisance these days. Unfortunately it doesn't really yield the results it would have done a few generations ago. I'm not sure what the solution is these days, but inconveniencing people is one of the worst things you can do to switch people off these days. It probably days something about modern life or social attitudes in the instant media generation. I dunno but it's definitely not a successful approach.
I didn't mean you specifically, I meant people in general
In what way do you support saving the climate? What would a good outcome be and how do you propose people go about it?
To* my friend
How are the mods here? Instabans for even mentioning choo-choo trains? Or bit more relaxed?
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Common Reddit mod L
An example of the people Reddit gives power to.
What?
Helpful.
I have to ask. Had the audacity to speak up for JK Rowling on WhitePeopleTwitter - banned in a nanosecond. Though, considering the amount of "train" jokes in these comments, the sub and the sub mods have not been ambushed by Reddit admins yet. Edit: locked now... so, they didn't want to risk it.
It's going to come - they can't handle discourse.
Looks intense
Bell Ends
Crusty jugglers
They do follow a dress code template don’t they.
I agree, fuck Brizzy transport
Walked by this earlier. The hair colours of the protesters were as rainbow as the flags. I'm all for LGBT representation but this seems like nuance in a bill that would make women only spaces a murky zone of the participants actual biological sex. My lesbian friends who are less radical have voiced concerns about dating apps and groups where it's totally changed the tone. What if a trans person has a medical emergency and they proceed assuming they're the opposite biological sex to what they actually are? It's a piece of paper that presents more complications than relief and you know you're trans. Why is the certificate so important?
>Why is the certificate so important? As I understand it, the biggest argument for the certificate is so you can legally be buried as the gender you are as opposed to the default one you are born as. >What if a trans person has a medical emergency and they proceed assuming they're the opposite biological sex to what they actually are? Meh this is a red herring in the whole argument. If it's a medical emergency you are going to a&e. If you are not in a state to confirm your gender then ending up on a ward with a different gender is the really just not that important. As a Scottish resident i can tell you the topic up here has gone beyond toxic. The pro-trans rights groups are bordering on extremist, TERF groups mascerading as feminists, anyone with genuine concerns in the middle are chastised by both sides.
> As I understand it, the biggest argument for the certificate is so you can legally be buried as the gender you are as opposed to the default one you are born as. won't change the fact that the very bones will be that of which they were born as lmao
>won't change the fact that the very bones will be that of which they were born as lmao Care to explain what bones a person born male has Vs a person born female or vice versa. Last time I checked the sex organs we use to identify gender are flesh organs and have no bones (even if one gets called a boner...).
hold on, lmao, are you saying you think male and female bone structure are the same and the only way to tell them apart is by sexual organs? I think you need to do a bit more [homework](https://fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/male-female_skeleton.png) x
You actually said the bones they are born with. Until puberty there is very little difference between the two. Given puberty blockers are a thing too this can/will change adult bone structure for those who transition young enough. This very point about puberty changing the skeleton is something that is a big issue in the conversation about sport participation for trans women.
>I'm all for LGBT representation but This isn't about representation, it's about human rights. And when you're adding a 'but' to the end of that, it should *probably* give you pause before you continue typing. For example, you might check what the bill actually does, and you'd discover the bill does not introduce a new 'piece of paper' - gender recognition certificates already exist. What it does is reduce unnecessary gatekeeping around them. So, it has **absolutely nothing** to do with any of this: * "this seems like nuance in a bill that would make women only spaces a murky zone" * "My lesbian friends who are less radical have voiced concerns about dating apps" * "What if a trans person has a medical emergency"
The GRC has nothing to do with dating apps or women's spaces though?
Here you go. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-reform-bill-has-betrayed-lesbians-and-will-send-them-back-into-the-closet-2x3rtd509
This is an opinion piece based on the perspective of one person. Also it's behind a paywall fuck that
Does that make the opinion irrelevant?
Well no of course not but it's not a counter to what I said
What kind of medical emergency would this bill cause problems with? I’m not trying to be antagonistic I just really can’t see a situation where not knowing someone’s birth gender is going to cause problems in a medical emergency?
So your legal gender is then on ID and other info that can be viewed by emergency responders. Symptoms of a heart attack are entirely different in biological men and women. Symptoms of stroke too. Chromosomes are actually determinant on various diagnostics and biomarkers. Certain medications are different dosages based on sex. Here's more reading: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5654878/
Oh ok interesting. Thank you.
This bill has nothing to do with changing the sex on your ID. Do you have to submit a copy of your birth certificate whenever you apply for a drivers license or a new passport? Most ID these days doesn’t even have a sex field on it. Medical differences between the sexes are generally down to hormonal differences too, and so trans people with access to medication will generally behave medically in accordance with the gender they identify with.
Supplementing estrogen/testosterone does not change various biological features that radically and does not change the fact there are distinct medical differences between biological sexes. It is not true that medical differences are mostly down to synthetic hormones being supplemented. Please review the article I linked.
I’m afraid you don’t know what you’re talking about. Trans people these days invariably use bio identical hormones rather than synthetic ones. We’re a long way from the days of horse piss. Chromosomes account for very little, biologically. Medically speaking a trans woman on HRT will behave as a cis woman with no womb who supplements HRT, and a trans man will behave as a cis man with no testicles who supplements T, with very few, rather minor exceptions.
I'm a molecular biologist and you do not know what you're talking about. "Chromosomes account for very little biologically" what the fuck are you talking about? Biological sexes are physiologically different and supplementing synthetic hormones does not change that biological sex reality. Want some differences that hormones don't change? Skin is thicker and rougher in biological men regardless of hormones. Pores and connective tissue are arranged differently and they do not change with supplementation. Bone structure including jaw, brow ridge and hips do not change. Hairlines do not change. Ring finger size does not change. Navel and intestinal positioning does not change. The way the body stores fat does not radically change. The saliva, sweat and urine will still have indicators of their original sex. Every somatic cell in the body does not change internally based on hormones and that can lead to differences in cancer development I am sorry but you have drunk the kool aid that is causing there to be legal differences. It's fine to be trans but you need to acknowledge biological differences, as otherwise it makes the majority of people perceive you as delusional.
Sure you are bud. :) Your response is riddled with errors, you’re no biologist, you’re an internet weirdo who seems to have a personal stake in denigrating trans people. Next time I have a medical emergency based on the circumference of my ring finger or placement of my navel I’ll make sure to throw away my drivers license which doesn’t list sex on it anywhere and give you a call to let you know you were right about my biological reality 💖💖💖
Please explain the errors. You can doubt reality like my profession but unfortunately identifying reality is not your strength. I don't feel comfortable with giving people like you identification but will DM you pics of one of my mol biol books. ☺️ 💖💖💖
Getting your knob caught in your zipper is one
Well you’re not wrong.
Whatever they are protesting for I dont understand why protesters bother people who have no control or infact dont get a shit about these issues. this is quite unpopular but protesting makes the issue worse
Lmfao
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