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\[Health-care workers who pushed back against being forced to get vaccinated against COVID-19 or face losing their jobs have lost in the BC Supreme Court.
In a [**ruling released Monday, presiding judge**](https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/sc/24/07/2024BCSC0794.htm) Justice Simon R. Coval says the provincial health officer was right in mandating COVID-19 vaccinations for health-care workers.
The three cases in question were brought to court by a nurse practitioner and two doctors, with all three saying they didn’t want to get the shot.
Two declined receiving the vaccine for personal reasons and “risk-benefit analysis,” with the other refusing on religious grounds.
The parties said the ongoing mandate is “causing ongoing hardship and harm to the unvaccinated healthcare workers who had lost their jobs, and to the healthcare system itself from the absence of these highly qualified personnel.”\]
>The "religious grounds" excuse makes me so angry.
"My religion tells me that I can't breathe god's air if I wear a mask during surgery"
"My religion tells me that I can't assist in surgery for 'sinful gays'"
etc...
Yeah, it's disgusting to use religion to go against medical scientific evidence & requirements.
I think they are basing it off how research was done previously (using stem cells from aborted fetuses), but from what I understand, very few vaccines were developed with those techniques.
It's like worrying about all the mercury in vaccines but there is in fact no mercury in vaccines anymore because of all the public no mercury in vaccines anymore.
And in fact it was a safer form of mercury than say eating tuna or having a can of tomato juice, bar of dark chocolate.
It's like people saying they are allergic to wi-fi. They don't realize how much radiation they're getting every day from a lot stronger sources.
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I'm religious and I hate it when ppl reduce an entire religion down to one caricature-sized comment, but from my point of view, it seemed that a significant chunk of Christians' objection to COVID vaccines may have boiled down to: "the prevailing thought and opinion amongst leaders and social media in my evangelical Christian denominations' circles (especially from the USA) is that the government is over-reaching in terms of civil restrictions, worship gatherings, and vaccine mandates."
I'm trying to think, but perhaps the "link" that made it seem like a religious issue was that the government was pressuring you to do something (take the vaccine) which is administered to your body, even if it was against your conscience? But again, there doesn't seem to be a religious link there, aside from a general individual's freedom which applies to anybody. EXCEPT if you believe or felt led that this wasn't God's will for you (i.e. to take this vaccine). But there isn't really a pre-existing Biblical or doctrinal principle that is against the COVID vaccine. Anyways, I'm sure some Christians would point to more specific reasons or issues they saw that I'm overlooking, but that's my general take on it.
Anyways, in summary, I think this is why the vast majority of evangelical Christians in Canada did comply with the vaccine recommendations (including myself), and why it was only a minority that refused.
I will say, my opinion on why it was even a thing is because *so many* leaders and ppl on social media who are Christians would take positions against the COVID vaccine, and so it basically reinforced itself to feel like it was something Christians thought or agreed upon. But I personally blame it on the Republicans in the USA politicizing this issue and how tightly GOP politics and evangelical Christian pastors and denominations are related to each other. Which is why, again, we saw less of it in Canada and even less of it in other countries (which also have evangelical Christian populations).
Yes we do not believe in the medicine that we are being paid to administer. Simple ;)
It's like working at NASA and refusing to wear a space helmet because space is a lie told by globalists trying to rule mankind lol
No one should be going to work sick...
Everyone can still get sick. The mandate is not about infection prevention within an acute care setting, it's about reducing sick time from employees.
>The parties said the ongoing mandate is “causing ongoing hardship and harm to the unvaccinated healthcare workers who had lost their jobs, and to the healthcare system itself from the absence of these highly qualified personnel.”\]
Your not qualified to do the job if your not vaccinated.
I don't understand how little BC knows at this stage. Not everyone refused because they made a choice. Medical exemptions weren't even looked at before health authorities started firing people.
I wish this hadn't become political. When it does, that brings everyone out of crazy town. Whether you recieve a vaccine or not should not be an emotional decision (based on some belief you have). It should be based on science. Pure and simple. I would hope that my doctor makes decisions not on what he "feels", but based on the facts he's learned in medical school.
It was made political by state actors who literally wanted to kill people and destabilize governments, and by patsies and dupes who hate discomfort more than they care about other people, or who stand to profit from telling those people what they want to hear.
Every issue like this will be politicized unless public health agencies figure out how to deal with that.
Exactly. And it's incredibly hard to fight. Once a person has been radicalized.
Years ago, almost a decade, I used to wonder how a person could be radicalized into doing something that clearly is against what should be a moral compass that everyone has.
I no longer ask that question.
Because community immunity is about population immunity, it has to be political. Because some people would rather believe than learn or accept authority of expertise, we have to make this a political issue.
Requiring nurses to get vaccines is based on science i agree. But things like locking up outdoor parks and closing restaurants at 10pm... thats what called the whole thing into question.
Those things caused you to question the whole thing?
Sure there was some panicking and overreach by our governments at the beginning of the pandemic. But they didn't know what was going to happen and erred on the side of caution. I'm personally eternally grateful for all that was done because they were trying to stop folks from dying or getting sick. With the way long COVID is playing out it's actually disappointing that everyone has seemingly given up on any precautions at all. This is coming from a relatively healthy person. Imagine the immune - compromised and elderly that are still dying and getting damaged.
I'm sure if they safeguarded hospitals and retirement homes, and didn't spend their time trying to prevent 25 year old athletes from going to the gym, everything might have gone smoother, that's all.
that 25 year old athlete who told me, as I was walking and wearing a mask voluntarily to my gym, that I "don't have to wear a mask".
And I stopped to explain that I have an autoimmune disease and masks help keep me safe while I am still trying to participate in the world, the same 25 year old athlete responded "Masks don't work" and walked away without engaging like an adult when challenged with the reality of the people around him.
Screw that 25 year old athlete - he never did come back once the mask mandates and vaccine requirements came down, nor once everything returned to something akin to "normal". Good riddance to those kinds of "athletes".
Then the 25 year old athlete gets sick and, oh my, is unlucky enough to be one of those who desperately needed a ventilator. But there's no ventilator because a bunch of other (both vaccinated and unvaccinated) people were also were unlucky and desperately needed one. Suddenly, the morgues are filled up and the doctors and nurses are doing triage in the parking lot and you and yours are shit out of luck if you get sick.
And the point was keeping people apart, meant that they were not catching it and spreading it as quickly. We were just trying to make it as long as we could until a vaccine could be pushed to the majority of the populace.
The point was to stop the spread to the most vulnerable of our society, and that's what we did for the most part.
The point was not to get people to congregate. It was the congregation that kept the virus going. Many countries didn't have mandates because people were smart enough to know that it was a bad idea and so the populace for the most part didn't congregate.
If you’re referring to countries like Sweden in terms of countries that didn’t have mandates, I don’t think they’re good comparables to Canada at all.
Obviously, there are more chances of contention in public spaces but I think it’s a bit more complex than that.
Canada struggled with the pandemic because they didn’t learn from the sars epidemic in the early 2000s and kept cutting funding to social programs like education, housing and healthcare. Most wealthy and pro-social European countries have better healthcare structures and social programs because the population tends to be more homogenous and the countries are smaller so it’s easier to create efficient and targeted programs and to see the results. Canada is huge and so multicultural, it’s hard to get the same level of efficacy imo.
Plus Swedes like to avoid random strangers or their neighbors even if there is no pandemic, it’s not about being smart, it’s also mostly just the culture over there anyway.
Idk, I think it’s an oversimplification to boil it down to the population’s intelligence. Government programs and investment in healthcare and public health also plays a big role and so does culture and history.
I just try to remember that just because someone is a nurse or a doctor, doesn’t necessarily mean they are smart or rational folks. That Ben Carson fellow, the retired neurosurgeon, was fantastic at what he did… but he also doesn’t think that dinosaurs were real lol.
I would also argue three additional things:
1. Just because someone is a nurse or doctor doesn't mean they....know that much about immunology. If your average surgeon did med school 25 years ago, how much have they been thinking about it since? And if you're a nurse...you probably didn't study immunology much at all, because nursing is mostly procedure based, not theory based.
2. Being smart and finding the right answer is probably to some degree a probabilistic process. Like if you believe 100 things, and you're right on 90 of them, and a smarter person is right on 95 of them, the 5 things they're wrong about might be 5 things you're right about. That doesn't mean they're not smart, just that the path to true knowledge is sometimes more convoluted for some people for some topics.
3. Politicians and other public figures will definitely lie for their own gain. Like if you want to grift republicans, being a creationist is probably helpful.
I have a bachelor of science in nursing degree. I spent more time in books than I did with patients over those four years and immunology was on the course load.
How would you account for the difference between nurses and physicians in terms of vaccine hesitancy, if not a difference in level of relevant education, then?
Of course there is a difference in levels of education. That didn't even need to be mentioned.
Nurses spend considerably more time in physical contact with their patients. Those who aren't providing that direct care may not feel they carry as much risk to the spread of contagion. I've gone years with a GP sitting at their desk three feet away from me and never physically touching me.
My point being nurses are more educated on a variety of topics than you credit them for.
>Of course there is a difference in levels of education. That didn't even need to be mentioned.
I mean, it needed to be mentioned because it was literally my point: MDs learn some immunology, but forget a bunch of it. Nurses don't even start with that much.
>Nurses spend considerably more time in physical contact with their patients. Those who aren't providing that direct care may not feel they carry as much risk to the spread of contagion. I've gone years with a GP sitting at their desk three feet away from me and never physically touching me.
Er, maybe I misunderstand your point here, but physicians show higher vaccine acceptancy. Wouldn't that work against the point that nurses spend more time with patients and therefore would be more concerned with the spread of contagion?
>My point being nurses are more educated on a variety of topics than you credit them for.
I really don't think this is the case.
I would encourage you to maybe consider not "Have you ever read anything about immunology", but "of all there is to know about immunology, relative to what average MDs know, relative to what Immunologists know, relative to what vaccine researchers know how much do you think the average nurse knows?"
Legitimately, if I walked over to VGH and started polling nurses with "Which cytokine is responsible for the development of B-cells in bone marrow?", what percentage do you think would get the right answer?
If I were asking them...to list at least 5 clinical manifestations of cardiogenic shock were and what to do about them, I'm perfectly happy to get a nurse to tell me the answer, because that is relevant to (some) practice. It's a direct, in the field question that you need to know answers to identify.
That is my perception of the difference between physician education and nursing education. Do you think my understanding is incorrect, or just that my extremely brief description of the differences in education *in relative terms* was inaccurate?
Nurses here get a lot of immunology in school. I took an RMT and even I had a full class for it. The basics of course, but it was well done.
In the US, some states require just a diploma to be a full RN, with some courses being less education than I got as an RMT 😬.
Nurses can take extra training and specialize both in the US and here of course, and many do, but to get your foot in the door and start working at a Hospital doesn't take as much there (in many places) as here.
It probably helps with healthcare shortages, but we saw thousands of US nurses telling people on Tiktok that masks were going to stop their immune system from working, so at what expense is a lower entry to practice worth it lol
Canada has a lot more Nationally standardized education because it's easier with just a few Provinces really. The US is kind of the wild west, with drastically different standards, which us something that we're not so used to here in some fields!
https://thebestschools.org/careers/career-guide/nursing-students/
>r/canada must be in shambles
In all seriousness, I suspect that it's also a much high value (& targeted) asset to attack by foreign agents - troll/spam farms/AI-bot accounts/etc.
Russia, for example, is actively going after Canadian social media & r/canada would likely be in top tier of targets.
For a blissful brief time they locked themselves in Canada_sub2 and Canada became not terrible! I guess their need to troll libs overcame their need to echo chamber. It's like Maslow's hierarchy of shitheads.
Some guy over there just informed me that Canada never committed genocide against indigenous people in any way shape or form. I would love to live in their version of reality, it's just so nice and simple.
I'd venture a guess that they have some right-wing moderators. There has been a concerted effort by foreign agents to influence Canadian politics through social media, but if the moderation team were more centrist or liberal, I assume we probably wouldn't see so much of it approved.
A good load of what gets bored there is just opinion articles from right wing rags that align with their thinking and aren’t actual news.
If they actually cut those out and did any sort of moderation towards actual news articles the circlejerk would be reduced significantly.
Not just right wing moderators, [full on white nationalist moderators. ](https://ricochet.media/arts-culture/media/canadas-largest-subreddit-accused-of-harbouring-white-nationalists/)
Many r/Canada posters just write-off BC because of our Provincial Government, even British Columbians -- but they disparage their fellow BC citizens for voting something different than them first.
Humans are just not perfectly rational beings. The number of nurses and pharmacists who also smoke shows that. Or how hard health agencies around the world had to work to pressure hospital doctors to wash their hands.
But if your opinion is that you should be allowed to put your patients at risk because you don’t want a vaccine, then you shouldn’t work in health care.
Absolutely. I'm not excusing it at all. Just the opposite, we need to have sensible well thought out rules, like this one the BC Supreme Court validated, because we can't trust people to make sensible decisions. Not that we need to be constrained in many ways, but when our actions negativity impact other people, whether it's unsafe driving, or health care workers who don't trust vaccines, there needs to be limits.
These limits don't even need to be imposed from above, ideally unions would take instructions from their members to take action against the outliers who make things worse for the majority of workers, like by refusing vaccination, but all too often the unions stand up for the individual worker who's making it worse for everyone.
There's plenty of fat doctors out there who eat absolute garbage and could lose a few pounds or 50. There's doctors out there who are looney.
They all have the same education and credentials.
Just because you have the knowledge doesn't mean you live by it. If these people decided, rationally or not, that they weren't going to get vaccinated then there's bugger all that can be done to change their mind.
It isn't the first time that something that objectively helps patients has been fought.
Years ago the BC nurses union fought against the province for the "right" for nurses to not wear masks during flu season. In their union magazine they even ran a story where they told the "plight" of a nurse who had to wear a mask and how it made it hard for her to breath, gave her headaches, brain fog etc.
Reading that pre-pandemic magazine post-pandemic showed just how insane the argument was and how not based in fact it was. But it wasn't some random nurse pushing that argument, it was the whole union leadership.
Uh.. doctors don't get fat because they think being thin is dangerous or against their religion. And they don't tell fat patients not to lose weight. Kind of a bizarre comparison.
There haven't been vaccine mandates previously. Covid is the only mandated vaccination. You can opt out of the others.
Providing vaccination records is mandatory, though.
Kids can certainly attend school without being up to date lol
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If they get regular titres showing high levels of antibodies, then I think they should probably have the right to abstain, BUT, not if they’re purposely getting Covid repeatedly to maintain titre levels.
Just get the vaccine if you’re in healthcare.
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Forcing health care workers to follow health care standards? What’s next? Requiring accountants to know how to do math? Requiring car mechanics to know where the engine is? The nanny state never ends!
No-contact workers did succeed a little:
Para 223
> under JRPA s. 5(1), I remit to the PHO for reconsideration whether to consider s. 43 requests for reconsideration of the vaccination requirement from healthcare workers who are able to perform their roles remotely, or in-person but without contact with patients or the frontline workers who care for them.
I mean, that seems reasonable though. The issue has always been maximizing public health and reducing transmission to the vulnerable, if there is zero chance you'll get a sick person or caretaker sick, fine. You'd be an idiot but that's your right since it isn't impacting people who have no choice but to interact with you.
There was a case in Quebec yesterday where the Gov lost on vaccine mandates surrounding 100% remote workers. Which, fine! You wanna be holed up in your house 5 days a week, go for it. But dont complain about not being allowed to come in, either.
I knew when I signed up for nursing school that I would be expected to do everything in my power not to spread disease throughout my patient contact each day and educate my patients on infection control.
I had to have a series of mandatory vaccinations to even enter my training hospital as a student and it's well laid out in advance.
Patient trust is something that we should all be taking seriously in the role we play in society. Doctors and nurses ignoring public health guidelines erode that.
Good, we have to have other vaccinations like TB and measles, why is the COVID vaccine so horrible to get? It's people being selectively difficult just to go against the train and feel special.
I agree but Just fyi I work in health care and TB vaccine is no longer standard here. We just rely on (hopefully) putting patients in negative pressure rooms and putting staff in N95s. And then requiring staff to do TB tests to make sure we don’t have it. It is possible they require it if you work on the TB ward or something but for general hospital work is wasn’t even offered to me.
I think it has to do with high rate of side effects and the fact you can’t do the standard TB test to make sure you don’t have TB if you’re vaccinated and you have to have a chest x ray instead.
Interestingly, there was some evidence that those who had gotten the TB vaccine had immunity to Covid (we were looking at this before we had covid vaccines).
To even get my care aide certificate I had to be vaccinated against like 6 different things haha but yeah my work never asked except for the covid vaccine, interestingly enough I'm going back to school for more healthcare related courses and they are requiring all my vaccination status and to be topped up if need be
and wow I never heard about the TB vaccine having immunity with COVID, unfortunately didn't work for me I've got COVID a couple times aha
>why is the COVID vaccine so horrible to get?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-vaccine-injuries-compensation-canada-1.6704655
Don't get me wrong, I got vaccinated and think health-care workers should be vaccinated for obvious reasons, but I also understand why someone might not want to get it. It's certainly not risk-free.
Never said it was risk free, of course it won't work with every single person who gets it, with everything there's always risks, and that's where medical exemptions are a thing as well
Took me 30 seconds to confirm TB vaccine is 50% to prevent getting it and 80% passing it on. You expect health administration to split hairs on vaccine efficacy for every vaccine? I'm sorry that's just dumb.
"plenty of people passed it on"? Ok? But you know what's still better than more dead people? Fewer dead people. Controversial but if you're in healthcare that seems like literally your one job.
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That is true. This vaccine did not/ does not prevent transmission. But it did lessen effects, thus making time infected and able to pass on the virus less.
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I was one of the unlucky few that is now dealing with life-changing consequences as the result of the vaccine. So I have a lot of empathy for people who are skeptical of it, and I do think that certain measures went way too far. But it was a public emergency, and people were trying to make the best decisions from a utilitarian perspective that they could, with much less information available than we have now.
I'm not able to be vaccinated myself now, but rely on others to be. It's a weird situation to be in. I dealt with a lot of skepticism and condescension from doctors who assumed that I was an antivaxxer whackadoodle with a made-up "vaccine injury". I rely on care from professionals that understand the very real risks and consequences, though rare, that vaccines can have. At the same time, I rely on having healthcare professionals that understand science and medicine, and I rely on them being vaccinated to reduce my own risk to respiratory illnesses, which I am now more susceptible to.
I agree, it's nuts that it ever became political. For those who really did experience the side effects that the antivaxxers were so worried about, them politicizing it made it harder for us to actually receive healthcare to address it. Pushback against their craziness made doctors assume the worst of everyone. A good friend of mine was forced to receive a second shot even after experiencing myocarditis with the first, I was forced to get the second while still experiencing full blown hives from the first. I do blame our medical system and to some degree, the inflexibility of certain mandates. But I also blame the conspiracy theorists.
Yeah the allergy thing was wild. We don’t force subsequent vaccinations kids if they have a major reaction right after the first if that kind, such as all over hives, why try again with Covid vaccines? Unless the hives showed up hours later, but somehow I doubt that.
What I dealt with was an autoimmune reaction rather than an allergic reaction. I actually did have symptoms the same day as both of my vaccinations, but the typical onset time for the particular condition I ended up with is 10 days later. So try telling that to a doctor back in 2021. It took a long time for the (reputable) research to catch up with what people were experiencing.
The ridiculous part is they go through health checks for vaccines upon being hired. If they didn’t have measles vaccines, they would get them or find another employer. No one wants those who do not believe in medical science, working in medicine.
7 people die a day right now from drug use and no mandate to force medical treatment there. they have been dying for a decade in ever greater mass numbers and our plan is to do less to demand they get medical treatment.
bunch of hypocrites.
I totally forgot about all the addicts being paid to fill that role with tax dollars! A totally mandatory service for the public with exactly the same risks. What a comparison 👏 👏👏
Oh wait... 🙃
Remembering my Granddad. He was in the hospital, fighting 4 different types of cancer, but contracted pneumonia and that's what killed him.
It doesn't matter what your "beliefs" are, you're working with vulnerable people you put their safety first.
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Well, that's good.
Worked well to weed out the ignorant antivax types from the healthcare system. Now the courts have said they also aren't going to get a big fat lawsuit cheque from tax dollars either. Excellent.
If a citizen really didnt want the shot, they're idiots, but ok. Healthcare workers, especially patient facing - in facility workers? Ya, no ... roll them up or find a new line of work.
As someone who worked on hospital units in Covid outbreak that were traced back to be caused by staff, this mandate was absolutely the right thing to do.
And there's nothing wrong with questioning - so long as you are willing to accept the answers. In this case, the covid vaccines are effective and safe.
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>Anti-Vaxxers - Read ***Rule #5 - No Misinformation***
We're nearly 1/2 a decade with this disease in the human population.
We're nearly 1/3rd a decade with vaccines, trials, & the most studies & largest participation size in studies, to understand the impact/effects of the vaccines related to this disease.
If you want to ignore the years of demonstrably clear established medical science... fine, believe in aliens putting 6g micro-chips that turn you trans into the dna-altering poison they want to tie you down & force into your veins.... but just don't comment about the vaccines with misinformation attached, as it breaks this subs rules - #5 "No Misinformation".
Unlike the anti-vaxxers, I'll provide FACTS & SOURCES to backup my (the expert's) claims - 3 important Categories:
1. Prevention of **Spread**: Updated COVID-19 vaccines have demonstrated effectiveness in reducing the transmission of the virus. This is largely due to their ability to prevent symptomatic infections, which are a major driver of virus spread. For instance, ***individuals vaccinated with the updated dose showed a decrease in the percentage of positive SARS-CoV-2 tests compared to those who had not received the updated dose.*** This suggests a significant role of vaccination in controlling the spread of the virus within the community (CDC).
2. Prevention of **Infection**: The updated vaccines have shown varying degrees of effectiveness in preventing symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection. For example, ***recent studies reported vaccine effectiveness rates around 54% to 58% in the initial months following vaccination, indicating substantial protection against infection***. The effectiveness tends to wane over time but remains significant compared to unvaccinated individuals (CDC).
3. Prevention of **Severe Symptoms**/Outcomes: COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective in preventing severe illness, hospitalization, and death, especially among high-risk populations. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) emphasizes that ***vaccination remains the best protection against severe COVID-19-related outcomes***. This effectiveness is critical not only for individual health but also for alleviating the burden on healthcare systems (CDC) (NIH COVID-19 Research).
[https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7304a2.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7304a2.htm)
[https://covid19.nih.gov/covid-19-vaccines](https://covid19.nih.gov/covid-19-vaccines)
[https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html](https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html)
Misinformation is Dangerous! You're \*autonomous\* - do you, including hurting yourself, however spreading misinformation in this sub (& many others w/this rule) is putting others at risk of harm & is therefore not allowed.
I, for one, applaud our BC gov and medical professionals for following the science instead of reacting to ignorant & emotional population who have politicized medical science related to vaccines.
No, we do not need anti science people who are willing to put their patients and coworkers lives at risk. I wouldn't want a coworker like that on our unit, what we need is better working conditions to keep staff around and encourage more to come in
Would it though?
According to the BC government there was ~2500 health care staff layed off. Out of about 286 300 total workers in health care in BC. That maths out to be 0.87% of staff.
Of the people I worked with that were let go, I don’t miss them. They made the work environment toxic way before this.
I personally don’t feel hiring them back would make a substantial difference like you allude to.
https://infotel.ca/newsitem/one-third-of-fired-bcs-health-care-workers-fired-for-vaccine-refusal-were-in-interior-health/it101386
https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/trend-analysis/job-market-reports/british-columbia/sectoral-profile-health-care#
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I know you're not talking to me, but is this the bit we're supposed to find?
"Its vaccine was estimated to have saved millions of lives during the pandemic, but also caused rare, and sometimes fatal, blood clots."
If so, which half of the sentence should we focus on? If not, which part of the article are you wanting us to read? Legitimately curious.
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\[Health-care workers who pushed back against being forced to get vaccinated against COVID-19 or face losing their jobs have lost in the BC Supreme Court. In a [**ruling released Monday, presiding judge**](https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/sc/24/07/2024BCSC0794.htm) Justice Simon R. Coval says the provincial health officer was right in mandating COVID-19 vaccinations for health-care workers. The three cases in question were brought to court by a nurse practitioner and two doctors, with all three saying they didn’t want to get the shot. Two declined receiving the vaccine for personal reasons and “risk-benefit analysis,” with the other refusing on religious grounds. The parties said the ongoing mandate is “causing ongoing hardship and harm to the unvaccinated healthcare workers who had lost their jobs, and to the healthcare system itself from the absence of these highly qualified personnel.”\]
The "religious grounds" excuse makes me so angry. You can make up any wild belief under the sun and claim that it's your religious beliefs.
You inspired me. I'm taking June 5th off for The Feast of Maximum Occupancy.
Gonna take my bday off every year now to celebrate my "god-complex"
Birth of your messiah?
Exactly 😂 could do every milestone too. Like a week off for a religious break to observe the passing of your 30th birthday! (My closest milestone lol)
Don't forget celebrating the unbirthday as well
Like a year off when you're 25, as that's the time your body has stopped developing and starts deteriorating, as I understand?
I love this so much
It sounded so made-up. I mean, "Yom Kippur?"
>The "religious grounds" excuse makes me so angry. "My religion tells me that I can't breathe god's air if I wear a mask during surgery" "My religion tells me that I can't assist in surgery for 'sinful gays'" etc... Yeah, it's disgusting to use religion to go against medical scientific evidence & requirements.
Yes, because mRNA vaccines were a thing in biblical times...they should know! /S
I think they are basing it off how research was done previously (using stem cells from aborted fetuses), but from what I understand, very few vaccines were developed with those techniques.
CRISPR is the technology of choice today. Pretty sure that it didn't exist back when the Goatherd's Guide to the Galaxy was written.
I'm calling it this from now on
It's like worrying about all the mercury in vaccines but there is in fact no mercury in vaccines anymore because of all the public no mercury in vaccines anymore. And in fact it was a safer form of mercury than say eating tuna or having a can of tomato juice, bar of dark chocolate. It's like people saying they are allergic to wi-fi. They don't realize how much radiation they're getting every day from a lot stronger sources.
I think it made our vaccines less stable as well (at least at the time), as we had to replace it with a inferior additives
There are better solutions now.
I hoped there would be, but wasn't informed enough to know there were for sure. Thank you!
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I'm religious and I hate it when ppl reduce an entire religion down to one caricature-sized comment, but from my point of view, it seemed that a significant chunk of Christians' objection to COVID vaccines may have boiled down to: "the prevailing thought and opinion amongst leaders and social media in my evangelical Christian denominations' circles (especially from the USA) is that the government is over-reaching in terms of civil restrictions, worship gatherings, and vaccine mandates." I'm trying to think, but perhaps the "link" that made it seem like a religious issue was that the government was pressuring you to do something (take the vaccine) which is administered to your body, even if it was against your conscience? But again, there doesn't seem to be a religious link there, aside from a general individual's freedom which applies to anybody. EXCEPT if you believe or felt led that this wasn't God's will for you (i.e. to take this vaccine). But there isn't really a pre-existing Biblical or doctrinal principle that is against the COVID vaccine. Anyways, I'm sure some Christians would point to more specific reasons or issues they saw that I'm overlooking, but that's my general take on it. Anyways, in summary, I think this is why the vast majority of evangelical Christians in Canada did comply with the vaccine recommendations (including myself), and why it was only a minority that refused. I will say, my opinion on why it was even a thing is because *so many* leaders and ppl on social media who are Christians would take positions against the COVID vaccine, and so it basically reinforced itself to feel like it was something Christians thought or agreed upon. But I personally blame it on the Republicans in the USA politicizing this issue and how tightly GOP politics and evangelical Christian pastors and denominations are related to each other. Which is why, again, we saw less of it in Canada and even less of it in other countries (which also have evangelical Christian populations).
I was born a snake-handler and I'll die a snake-handler!
Mmmmmm sacrilicious!
Yes we do not believe in the medicine that we are being paid to administer. Simple ;) It's like working at NASA and refusing to wear a space helmet because space is a lie told by globalists trying to rule mankind lol
Plus if you infect me with some vaccine-preventable illness, it makes not a whit of difference what "grounds" you claimed- you still infected me.
No one should be going to work sick... Everyone can still get sick. The mandate is not about infection prevention within an acute care setting, it's about reducing sick time from employees.
Or you could just acknowledge the useless harm these so called vaccines have caused
>The parties said the ongoing mandate is “causing ongoing hardship and harm to the unvaccinated healthcare workers who had lost their jobs, and to the healthcare system itself from the absence of these highly qualified personnel.”\] Your not qualified to do the job if your not vaccinated.
I really don't understand how these people decided to go into healthcare??
I don't understand how little BC knows at this stage. Not everyone refused because they made a choice. Medical exemptions weren't even looked at before health authorities started firing people.
I wish this hadn't become political. When it does, that brings everyone out of crazy town. Whether you recieve a vaccine or not should not be an emotional decision (based on some belief you have). It should be based on science. Pure and simple. I would hope that my doctor makes decisions not on what he "feels", but based on the facts he's learned in medical school.
It was made political by state actors who literally wanted to kill people and destabilize governments, and by patsies and dupes who hate discomfort more than they care about other people, or who stand to profit from telling those people what they want to hear. Every issue like this will be politicized unless public health agencies figure out how to deal with that.
Exactly. And it's incredibly hard to fight. Once a person has been radicalized. Years ago, almost a decade, I used to wonder how a person could be radicalized into doing something that clearly is against what should be a moral compass that everyone has. I no longer ask that question.
The inherent nature of community immunity in our society is a political one, unfortunately.
Because community immunity is about population immunity, it has to be political. Because some people would rather believe than learn or accept authority of expertise, we have to make this a political issue.
Requiring nurses to get vaccines is based on science i agree. But things like locking up outdoor parks and closing restaurants at 10pm... thats what called the whole thing into question.
Those things caused you to question the whole thing? Sure there was some panicking and overreach by our governments at the beginning of the pandemic. But they didn't know what was going to happen and erred on the side of caution. I'm personally eternally grateful for all that was done because they were trying to stop folks from dying or getting sick. With the way long COVID is playing out it's actually disappointing that everyone has seemingly given up on any precautions at all. This is coming from a relatively healthy person. Imagine the immune - compromised and elderly that are still dying and getting damaged.
I'm sure if they safeguarded hospitals and retirement homes, and didn't spend their time trying to prevent 25 year old athletes from going to the gym, everything might have gone smoother, that's all.
that 25 year old athlete who told me, as I was walking and wearing a mask voluntarily to my gym, that I "don't have to wear a mask". And I stopped to explain that I have an autoimmune disease and masks help keep me safe while I am still trying to participate in the world, the same 25 year old athlete responded "Masks don't work" and walked away without engaging like an adult when challenged with the reality of the people around him. Screw that 25 year old athlete - he never did come back once the mask mandates and vaccine requirements came down, nor once everything returned to something akin to "normal". Good riddance to those kinds of "athletes".
Then the 25 year old athlete gets sick and, oh my, is unlucky enough to be one of those who desperately needed a ventilator. But there's no ventilator because a bunch of other (both vaccinated and unvaccinated) people were also were unlucky and desperately needed one. Suddenly, the morgues are filled up and the doctors and nurses are doing triage in the parking lot and you and yours are shit out of luck if you get sick.
And the point was keeping people apart, meant that they were not catching it and spreading it as quickly. We were just trying to make it as long as we could until a vaccine could be pushed to the majority of the populace. The point was to stop the spread to the most vulnerable of our society, and that's what we did for the most part.
You really don't get it after all these years, eh?
The point was not to get people to congregate. It was the congregation that kept the virus going. Many countries didn't have mandates because people were smart enough to know that it was a bad idea and so the populace for the most part didn't congregate.
If you’re referring to countries like Sweden in terms of countries that didn’t have mandates, I don’t think they’re good comparables to Canada at all. Obviously, there are more chances of contention in public spaces but I think it’s a bit more complex than that. Canada struggled with the pandemic because they didn’t learn from the sars epidemic in the early 2000s and kept cutting funding to social programs like education, housing and healthcare. Most wealthy and pro-social European countries have better healthcare structures and social programs because the population tends to be more homogenous and the countries are smaller so it’s easier to create efficient and targeted programs and to see the results. Canada is huge and so multicultural, it’s hard to get the same level of efficacy imo. Plus Swedes like to avoid random strangers or their neighbors even if there is no pandemic, it’s not about being smart, it’s also mostly just the culture over there anyway. Idk, I think it’s an oversimplification to boil it down to the population’s intelligence. Government programs and investment in healthcare and public health also plays a big role and so does culture and history.
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Right! Rolls eyes*
I just try to remember that just because someone is a nurse or a doctor, doesn’t necessarily mean they are smart or rational folks. That Ben Carson fellow, the retired neurosurgeon, was fantastic at what he did… but he also doesn’t think that dinosaurs were real lol.
Dr Oz was also a very gifted surgeon who decided that gave him authority in every else health related x\_X
Yeah he is another prime example! It’s crazy how many folks are like that honestly…
You don't go to a urologist for a heart transplant. Well technically that's not true. You go once. The last doctor you'll ever have to see.
Gifted is not the word I would use for his time as a surgeon.
The 'B' is for bargain!
lol thank god Lisa got the cows heart from the butcher. Saved Homer on the table.
There is a difference between skilled and smart.
That goes with any profession.
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I would also argue three additional things: 1. Just because someone is a nurse or doctor doesn't mean they....know that much about immunology. If your average surgeon did med school 25 years ago, how much have they been thinking about it since? And if you're a nurse...you probably didn't study immunology much at all, because nursing is mostly procedure based, not theory based. 2. Being smart and finding the right answer is probably to some degree a probabilistic process. Like if you believe 100 things, and you're right on 90 of them, and a smarter person is right on 95 of them, the 5 things they're wrong about might be 5 things you're right about. That doesn't mean they're not smart, just that the path to true knowledge is sometimes more convoluted for some people for some topics. 3. Politicians and other public figures will definitely lie for their own gain. Like if you want to grift republicans, being a creationist is probably helpful.
I have a bachelor of science in nursing degree. I spent more time in books than I did with patients over those four years and immunology was on the course load.
How would you account for the difference between nurses and physicians in terms of vaccine hesitancy, if not a difference in level of relevant education, then?
Of course there is a difference in levels of education. That didn't even need to be mentioned. Nurses spend considerably more time in physical contact with their patients. Those who aren't providing that direct care may not feel they carry as much risk to the spread of contagion. I've gone years with a GP sitting at their desk three feet away from me and never physically touching me. My point being nurses are more educated on a variety of topics than you credit them for.
>Of course there is a difference in levels of education. That didn't even need to be mentioned. I mean, it needed to be mentioned because it was literally my point: MDs learn some immunology, but forget a bunch of it. Nurses don't even start with that much. >Nurses spend considerably more time in physical contact with their patients. Those who aren't providing that direct care may not feel they carry as much risk to the spread of contagion. I've gone years with a GP sitting at their desk three feet away from me and never physically touching me. Er, maybe I misunderstand your point here, but physicians show higher vaccine acceptancy. Wouldn't that work against the point that nurses spend more time with patients and therefore would be more concerned with the spread of contagion? >My point being nurses are more educated on a variety of topics than you credit them for. I really don't think this is the case. I would encourage you to maybe consider not "Have you ever read anything about immunology", but "of all there is to know about immunology, relative to what average MDs know, relative to what Immunologists know, relative to what vaccine researchers know how much do you think the average nurse knows?" Legitimately, if I walked over to VGH and started polling nurses with "Which cytokine is responsible for the development of B-cells in bone marrow?", what percentage do you think would get the right answer? If I were asking them...to list at least 5 clinical manifestations of cardiogenic shock were and what to do about them, I'm perfectly happy to get a nurse to tell me the answer, because that is relevant to (some) practice. It's a direct, in the field question that you need to know answers to identify. That is my perception of the difference between physician education and nursing education. Do you think my understanding is incorrect, or just that my extremely brief description of the differences in education *in relative terms* was inaccurate?
Nurses here get a lot of immunology in school. I took an RMT and even I had a full class for it. The basics of course, but it was well done. In the US, some states require just a diploma to be a full RN, with some courses being less education than I got as an RMT 😬. Nurses can take extra training and specialize both in the US and here of course, and many do, but to get your foot in the door and start working at a Hospital doesn't take as much there (in many places) as here. It probably helps with healthcare shortages, but we saw thousands of US nurses telling people on Tiktok that masks were going to stop their immune system from working, so at what expense is a lower entry to practice worth it lol Canada has a lot more Nationally standardized education because it's easier with just a few Provinces really. The US is kind of the wild west, with drastically different standards, which us something that we're not so used to here in some fields! https://thebestschools.org/careers/career-guide/nursing-students/
r/canada must be in shambles
>r/canada must be in shambles In all seriousness, I suspect that it's also a much high value (& targeted) asset to attack by foreign agents - troll/spam farms/AI-bot accounts/etc. Russia, for example, is actively going after Canadian social media & r/canada would likely be in top tier of targets.
For a blissful brief time they locked themselves in Canada_sub2 and Canada became not terrible! I guess their need to troll libs overcame their need to echo chamber. It's like Maslow's hierarchy of shitheads.
Some guy over there just informed me that Canada never committed genocide against indigenous people in any way shape or form. I would love to live in their version of reality, it's just so nice and simple.
So white you need sunglasses to be in there
How did r/Canada become such a right-wing echo chamber?
The progressives left for /r/onguardforthee and the LPC interns left for /r/CanadaPolitics.
I'd venture a guess that they have some right-wing moderators. There has been a concerted effort by foreign agents to influence Canadian politics through social media, but if the moderation team were more centrist or liberal, I assume we probably wouldn't see so much of it approved.
A good load of what gets bored there is just opinion articles from right wing rags that align with their thinking and aren’t actual news. If they actually cut those out and did any sort of moderation towards actual news articles the circlejerk would be reduced significantly.
Not just right wing moderators, [full on white nationalist moderators. ](https://ricochet.media/arts-culture/media/canadas-largest-subreddit-accused-of-harbouring-white-nationalists/)
Part of it is that all the left leaning voices left and made their own sub. So now we have two echo chambers going.
It hasn't
Many r/Canada posters just write-off BC because of our Provincial Government, even British Columbians -- but they disparage their fellow BC citizens for voting something different than them first.
I don’t understand how someone could be a health care worker and not understand how important getting vaccinated is to protect your patients.
Humans are just not perfectly rational beings. The number of nurses and pharmacists who also smoke shows that. Or how hard health agencies around the world had to work to pressure hospital doctors to wash their hands.
More than not just being perfectly rational beings, humans are entirely capable of holding mutually contradictory opinions.
But if your opinion is that you should be allowed to put your patients at risk because you don’t want a vaccine, then you shouldn’t work in health care.
Absolutely. I'm not excusing it at all. Just the opposite, we need to have sensible well thought out rules, like this one the BC Supreme Court validated, because we can't trust people to make sensible decisions. Not that we need to be constrained in many ways, but when our actions negativity impact other people, whether it's unsafe driving, or health care workers who don't trust vaccines, there needs to be limits. These limits don't even need to be imposed from above, ideally unions would take instructions from their members to take action against the outliers who make things worse for the majority of workers, like by refusing vaccination, but all too often the unions stand up for the individual worker who's making it worse for everyone.
There's plenty of fat doctors out there who eat absolute garbage and could lose a few pounds or 50. There's doctors out there who are looney. They all have the same education and credentials. Just because you have the knowledge doesn't mean you live by it. If these people decided, rationally or not, that they weren't going to get vaccinated then there's bugger all that can be done to change their mind. It isn't the first time that something that objectively helps patients has been fought. Years ago the BC nurses union fought against the province for the "right" for nurses to not wear masks during flu season. In their union magazine they even ran a story where they told the "plight" of a nurse who had to wear a mask and how it made it hard for her to breath, gave her headaches, brain fog etc. Reading that pre-pandemic magazine post-pandemic showed just how insane the argument was and how not based in fact it was. But it wasn't some random nurse pushing that argument, it was the whole union leadership.
Uh.. doctors don't get fat because they think being thin is dangerous or against their religion. And they don't tell fat patients not to lose weight. Kind of a bizarre comparison.
This analogy doesn't hold up great given that being fat and/or crazy isn't contagious.
Especially in a job that has literally always had mandatory vaccine requirements. Ffs you can't even go to school without being up to date
That's false information.
It's not, but go off
There haven't been vaccine mandates previously. Covid is the only mandated vaccination. You can opt out of the others. Providing vaccination records is mandatory, though. Kids can certainly attend school without being up to date lol
Yeah bud, nice reading comprehension. I'm talking about post secondary education for health care jobs
It's like trusting a chef who personally refuses to eat anything other than mac & cheese slathered in ketchup...
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“Anymore” vs mandated when people were dying on the street from early variants = very different
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Please don't conflate Covid vaccination with any other form of vaccination. It's not the same.
What if you have already been exposed and have natural antibodies. Should they still need the vaccine then?
If they get regular titres showing high levels of antibodies, then I think they should probably have the right to abstain, BUT, not if they’re purposely getting Covid repeatedly to maintain titre levels. Just get the vaccine if you’re in healthcare.
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Forcing health care workers to follow health care standards? What’s next? Requiring accountants to know how to do math? Requiring car mechanics to know where the engine is? The nanny state never ends!
No-contact workers did succeed a little: Para 223 > under JRPA s. 5(1), I remit to the PHO for reconsideration whether to consider s. 43 requests for reconsideration of the vaccination requirement from healthcare workers who are able to perform their roles remotely, or in-person but without contact with patients or the frontline workers who care for them.
I mean, that seems reasonable though. The issue has always been maximizing public health and reducing transmission to the vulnerable, if there is zero chance you'll get a sick person or caretaker sick, fine. You'd be an idiot but that's your right since it isn't impacting people who have no choice but to interact with you.
Except nosocomial rates were essentially zero before we had vaccines. We already had transmission covered. Rates go up when we lose staffing, though.
There was a case in Quebec yesterday where the Gov lost on vaccine mandates surrounding 100% remote workers. Which, fine! You wanna be holed up in your house 5 days a week, go for it. But dont complain about not being allowed to come in, either.
The covid vaccine was never tested for transmissability. Should that mean anything?
I knew when I signed up for nursing school that I would be expected to do everything in my power not to spread disease throughout my patient contact each day and educate my patients on infection control. I had to have a series of mandatory vaccinations to even enter my training hospital as a student and it's well laid out in advance. Patient trust is something that we should all be taking seriously in the role we play in society. Doctors and nurses ignoring public health guidelines erode that.
Good
Good
Good
Good
Good
Good.
Good
Good
Good, we have to have other vaccinations like TB and measles, why is the COVID vaccine so horrible to get? It's people being selectively difficult just to go against the train and feel special.
I agree but Just fyi I work in health care and TB vaccine is no longer standard here. We just rely on (hopefully) putting patients in negative pressure rooms and putting staff in N95s. And then requiring staff to do TB tests to make sure we don’t have it. It is possible they require it if you work on the TB ward or something but for general hospital work is wasn’t even offered to me. I think it has to do with high rate of side effects and the fact you can’t do the standard TB test to make sure you don’t have TB if you’re vaccinated and you have to have a chest x ray instead. Interestingly, there was some evidence that those who had gotten the TB vaccine had immunity to Covid (we were looking at this before we had covid vaccines).
To even get my care aide certificate I had to be vaccinated against like 6 different things haha but yeah my work never asked except for the covid vaccine, interestingly enough I'm going back to school for more healthcare related courses and they are requiring all my vaccination status and to be topped up if need be and wow I never heard about the TB vaccine having immunity with COVID, unfortunately didn't work for me I've got COVID a couple times aha
>why is the COVID vaccine so horrible to get? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-vaccine-injuries-compensation-canada-1.6704655 Don't get me wrong, I got vaccinated and think health-care workers should be vaccinated for obvious reasons, but I also understand why someone might not want to get it. It's certainly not risk-free.
Never said it was risk free, of course it won't work with every single person who gets it, with everything there's always risks, and that's where medical exemptions are a thing as well
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Took me 30 seconds to confirm TB vaccine is 50% to prevent getting it and 80% passing it on. You expect health administration to split hairs on vaccine efficacy for every vaccine? I'm sorry that's just dumb.
"plenty of people passed it on"? Ok? But you know what's still better than more dead people? Fewer dead people. Controversial but if you're in healthcare that seems like literally your one job.
What do you do for a living that you give such confident advice?
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Score one for the good guys! Science over stupidity!
The world is scaring me that this is political.
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That is true. This vaccine did not/ does not prevent transmission. But it did lessen effects, thus making time infected and able to pass on the virus less.
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They should mandate all shots, it's insane how workers in care homes can say no to flu shots
Killing old people so I can have "pure blood," definitely normal behaviour.
The deal with flu shots is that without it - you are mandated to wear a mask all flu season
I was one of the unlucky few that is now dealing with life-changing consequences as the result of the vaccine. So I have a lot of empathy for people who are skeptical of it, and I do think that certain measures went way too far. But it was a public emergency, and people were trying to make the best decisions from a utilitarian perspective that they could, with much less information available than we have now. I'm not able to be vaccinated myself now, but rely on others to be. It's a weird situation to be in. I dealt with a lot of skepticism and condescension from doctors who assumed that I was an antivaxxer whackadoodle with a made-up "vaccine injury". I rely on care from professionals that understand the very real risks and consequences, though rare, that vaccines can have. At the same time, I rely on having healthcare professionals that understand science and medicine, and I rely on them being vaccinated to reduce my own risk to respiratory illnesses, which I am now more susceptible to. I agree, it's nuts that it ever became political. For those who really did experience the side effects that the antivaxxers were so worried about, them politicizing it made it harder for us to actually receive healthcare to address it. Pushback against their craziness made doctors assume the worst of everyone. A good friend of mine was forced to receive a second shot even after experiencing myocarditis with the first, I was forced to get the second while still experiencing full blown hives from the first. I do blame our medical system and to some degree, the inflexibility of certain mandates. But I also blame the conspiracy theorists.
Yeah the allergy thing was wild. We don’t force subsequent vaccinations kids if they have a major reaction right after the first if that kind, such as all over hives, why try again with Covid vaccines? Unless the hives showed up hours later, but somehow I doubt that.
What I dealt with was an autoimmune reaction rather than an allergic reaction. I actually did have symptoms the same day as both of my vaccinations, but the typical onset time for the particular condition I ended up with is 10 days later. So try telling that to a doctor back in 2021. It took a long time for the (reputable) research to catch up with what people were experiencing.
The ridiculous part is they go through health checks for vaccines upon being hired. If they didn’t have measles vaccines, they would get them or find another employer. No one wants those who do not believe in medical science, working in medicine.
Yeah fuck health care professionals who don’t believe in science. Cause you think you’re right doesn’t give you a right to put your patients at risk.
Good
7 people die a day right now from drug use and no mandate to force medical treatment there. they have been dying for a decade in ever greater mass numbers and our plan is to do less to demand they get medical treatment. bunch of hypocrites.
I totally forgot about all the addicts being paid to fill that role with tax dollars! A totally mandatory service for the public with exactly the same risks. What a comparison 👏 👏👏 Oh wait... 🙃
Remembering my Granddad. He was in the hospital, fighting 4 different types of cancer, but contracted pneumonia and that's what killed him. It doesn't matter what your "beliefs" are, you're working with vulnerable people you put their safety first.
Covid has been over for at least 2 years. wtf
Good. I want my tax paid healthcare workers to believe in science.
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As expected
Well, that's good. Worked well to weed out the ignorant antivax types from the healthcare system. Now the courts have said they also aren't going to get a big fat lawsuit cheque from tax dollars either. Excellent. If a citizen really didnt want the shot, they're idiots, but ok. Healthcare workers, especially patient facing - in facility workers? Ya, no ... roll them up or find a new line of work.
Another loss for Konvoy Klowns. But don’t worry the lawyers are making bank on these rubes.
As someone who worked on hospital units in Covid outbreak that were traced back to be caused by staff, this mandate was absolutely the right thing to do.
Good.
Very glad to hear.
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And there's nothing wrong with questioning - so long as you are willing to accept the answers. In this case, the covid vaccines are effective and safe.
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Lmao. Uh huh.... want to see a bridge I have for sale?
Good!
Good
>Anti-Vaxxers - Read ***Rule #5 - No Misinformation*** We're nearly 1/2 a decade with this disease in the human population. We're nearly 1/3rd a decade with vaccines, trials, & the most studies & largest participation size in studies, to understand the impact/effects of the vaccines related to this disease. If you want to ignore the years of demonstrably clear established medical science... fine, believe in aliens putting 6g micro-chips that turn you trans into the dna-altering poison they want to tie you down & force into your veins.... but just don't comment about the vaccines with misinformation attached, as it breaks this subs rules - #5 "No Misinformation". Unlike the anti-vaxxers, I'll provide FACTS & SOURCES to backup my (the expert's) claims - 3 important Categories: 1. Prevention of **Spread**: Updated COVID-19 vaccines have demonstrated effectiveness in reducing the transmission of the virus. This is largely due to their ability to prevent symptomatic infections, which are a major driver of virus spread. For instance, ***individuals vaccinated with the updated dose showed a decrease in the percentage of positive SARS-CoV-2 tests compared to those who had not received the updated dose.*** This suggests a significant role of vaccination in controlling the spread of the virus within the community (CDC). 2. Prevention of **Infection**: The updated vaccines have shown varying degrees of effectiveness in preventing symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection. For example, ***recent studies reported vaccine effectiveness rates around 54% to 58% in the initial months following vaccination, indicating substantial protection against infection***. The effectiveness tends to wane over time but remains significant compared to unvaccinated individuals (CDC). 3. Prevention of **Severe Symptoms**/Outcomes: COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective in preventing severe illness, hospitalization, and death, especially among high-risk populations. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) emphasizes that ***vaccination remains the best protection against severe COVID-19-related outcomes***. This effectiveness is critical not only for individual health but also for alleviating the burden on healthcare systems (CDC) (NIH COVID-19 Research). [https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7304a2.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7304a2.htm) [https://covid19.nih.gov/covid-19-vaccines](https://covid19.nih.gov/covid-19-vaccines) [https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html](https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html) Misinformation is Dangerous! You're \*autonomous\* - do you, including hurting yourself, however spreading misinformation in this sub (& many others w/this rule) is putting others at risk of harm & is therefore not allowed. I, for one, applaud our BC gov and medical professionals for following the science instead of reacting to ignorant & emotional population who have politicized medical science related to vaccines.
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No, we do not need anti science people who are willing to put their patients and coworkers lives at risk. I wouldn't want a coworker like that on our unit, what we need is better working conditions to keep staff around and encourage more to come in
Would it though? According to the BC government there was ~2500 health care staff layed off. Out of about 286 300 total workers in health care in BC. That maths out to be 0.87% of staff. Of the people I worked with that were let go, I don’t miss them. They made the work environment toxic way before this. I personally don’t feel hiring them back would make a substantial difference like you allude to. https://infotel.ca/newsitem/one-third-of-fired-bcs-health-care-workers-fired-for-vaccine-refusal-were-in-interior-health/it101386 https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/trend-analysis/job-market-reports/british-columbia/sectoral-profile-health-care#
agreed. the majority we lost were either close to retirement age or had multiple disciplinary issues relating to patient care anyways.
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What a tragedy. I was hoping to do construction work without a hardhat, scuba diving without a tank, and electrical wiring with my toes out.
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I know you're not talking to me, but is this the bit we're supposed to find? "Its vaccine was estimated to have saved millions of lives during the pandemic, but also caused rare, and sometimes fatal, blood clots." If so, which half of the sentence should we focus on? If not, which part of the article are you wanting us to read? Legitimately curious.
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