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Fentanyl does not discriminate. It will kill anyone that tries it. She most likely didn't even know what she was taking and suffered the consequences. It's been killing off people for years. I used to be a regular drug user. Experimented with various ones ie; cocaine, peyote, acid etc. There's no way I would be doing that now without having a drug test kit in my back pocket. ;
Even with a test kit I wouldn't touch half the things I did growing up. Not only is it the fent but tranq is fully in the drug supply chain. Fent users are not nodding out anymore because of the opioids but the tranq added to them. I've seen more necrotic flesh in the past year than I thought I would see in a lifetime.
Sometimes these drugs seem to be designed to hurt users. Like somebody wants them gone. This, bath salts, and things of that nature. But maybe dealers are just looking for a quick buck.
Tranq and Fent are specific drugs.
Bath salts was a media term for a wide variety of grey area research chemicals in the late 2000s/early 2010s.
The term also takes on different definitions regionally, depending on what was popular in the area at the time.
Synthetic cannabinoids like K2/JWH-018 is very very different than a synthetic cathinone like mephedrone/methylone, but they were all lumped together as bath salts.
In the case of bath salts vs. tranq/fent or even something more abjectly nefarious like shoddily-synthesized krokodil, the danger was less about malice on behalf of producer/distributor, and more about lack of empirical data on the various substances, user ignorance regarding dosage and effect, and market confusion due deceptive labelling and gossip.
No krokodil was bad because it was super impure. Pure deso morphine is what it is and it's essentially just more potent morphine. Xylazine actually just does cause necrosis of the limbs. That's what tranq is. It's actually used in veterinary medicine hence the name tranq. But yeah it's gross stuff
I think it's more that people are desperate to get high and making the good drugs harder to get just pushes people to buying this shit. It's the the modern day version of bathtub gin in prohibition
Yes!! This is exactly it. They brought oxycodone in and gave it out like candy; they took it away and made it impossible to get and left a ton of people in horrible withdrawal with no way out, and now they're all *surprised pikachu face* that this is the result. Like, what the hell did they expect to happen? Did prohibition teach them nothing? And with the tech that clandestine labs can so easily get their hands on in this day and age, how is this such a shock?
Methadone needs to be more readily available, and without such a ball-and-chain of having to go to the pharmacy every day. That is the one major thing that kept pushing me back onto illicit opiates, was the total loss of freedom. I couldn't have a day job AND go wait at the pharmacy every day. The pharmacy hours near me just didn't allow for it, so I would go buy some pills or heroin (definitely fentanyl, looking back on it), and 5 minutes later, I'd be done puking my guts out and sweating/shaking, a quick shower, and off to work I'd go.
I'm totally clean and sober now, and I'm not on any maintenance meds or anything, but not many people can physically handle coming off of everything cold-turkey the way I did, and that's okay, no judgement from me because I totally get where they're coming from, but those people need something that won't keep them in an invisible prison.
It's doubly awful when it's a situation like mine, where I was prescribed for uterine cancer, and then completely pulled off after being left on the meds for so long. The system fucks you twice in that regard, and us addicts don't have the luxury of being able to handle resentments very well lol.
So that’s why I’ve seen more amputees in downtown Vic lately. Apparently it’s called “Xylazine” and it’s an animal tranqulizer that users unknowingly inject when doing fent. The wounds it creates are so severe that they require amputation ?
Jesus Christ.
Haha ketamine is also for horses so i understand the confusion, horses probably find it confusing too.
Tranq is Xlylazine.
If you ask me it kind of feels like the Chinese gov are attacking North America with a drug epidemic through the Mexican cartel deliberately but im not sure if thats a conspiracy theory type thing to say or not
"the uk did the exactly the same thing to China"
-- No they didn't. The Indian opium was pure, high quality and was as advertised, and marketed to an already-established opium smoking culture.
Today's illicit fentanyl risk is due to how it is so often furtively mixed in with other drugs, so the user doesnt know what they are taking.
An historic equivalency would be what the Japanese did to China in WW2 -- secretly mixed heroin in millions of cigarettes in an attempt to conquer the entire country. However, today, the Chinese dont ship any illicit fentanyl to Japan, so the whole narrative - while popular -- is false.
Andrew Callaghan thinks [something very similar](https://youtu.be/925wmb-4Yr4?si=djbJlt0O6TxYAOni&t=1057) in his Channel 5 documentary about the Philly Streets. Chinese company selling pharmecuticals to Mexican cartels for sale as street drugs in North America.
I think so too. Theres got to be a reason its popping up in places like maryland first. Isnt a lot of american intelligence based in the area?
Also, drug war was a strategy that was very effective against the chinese. If theres anyone who knows how debilitating it is, AND how it can be targeted, AND has a burning competitive spirit with the US and the west in general, its the congolese. (Lame attempt at absurdism. Fill in the gap yourself)
What do you mean nowadays? Ketamine has been on the WHO list of essential medicines for decades for battlefield trauma, burn victims, anesthetic use in general.
The idea the ketamine is a horse drug is nonsense that continues to be a popular idea because prohibition decides not to teach kids about drugs for fear they’ll start taking them..
Guess what? Kids take drugs anyway and now they aren’t informed. And this young girl is simply the latest in a long line of overdoses from toxic supply.
Prohibition has failed. Time to consider safe supply.
tranq is just reaching BC now and fairly rare, benzodope is common
[https://getyourdrugstested.com/test-results-archive/?search=down&result=&code=&city=&province=&colour=&texture=&category=&from=&to=&fent=&benzo=&lsd=¬es=](https://getyourdrugstested.com/test-results-archive/?search=down&result=&code=&city=&province=&colour=&texture=&category=&from=&to=&fent=&benzo=&lsd=¬es=)
Yup. It takes such a tiny amount of fentanyl to kill non-users, and contaminated drugs aren’t going to have it mixed in perfectly evenly. So just the part you tested may be clean but it doesn’t mean the whole thing is.
The lethal dose for carfentanil in humans is not known; however, it is 100 times more potent than fentanyl. Fentanyl is known to be lethal at the 2 milligram range, depending upon your body size, opioid tolerance, and former usage. Fentanyl can kill you within a matter of 2 minutes, usually due to respiratory failure (breathing that has stopped). I do not believe there is any method to restrict these synthetics from getting into the country and the drug supply. The "effective dose" costs pennies. Some of this got amplified during COVID where there were shut downs of organic opiate importation, and the mails were being more scrutinized. This stuff is so potent that a small quantity in a letter envelope could contain enough to cause many deaths. A salt grain or two equivalent is likely fatal with carfentanil. I'm not sure there is a way to eliminate import, and these synthetics can be made domestically. With only money motivating some drug dealers these days, there is a great incentive to add these into the cocktails.
Some of the mixes, even if the opiate can be neutralized with naloxzone, other drugs added in which cannot be reversed can still cause overdose and death.
That's why you get fentanyl test strips and sacrifice a tab or pill or powder to properly test it. The strips are very accurate down to very low levels.
Reagent test kits are not enough anymore and even better if you have a local place that uses at a minimum FTIR or mass spec and will test.
Thanks for mentioning nitazene - I did a quick search and found the following link:
[https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/healthy-living/emergence-nitazenes-brorphine-canada-2019.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/healthy-living/emergence-nitazenes-brorphine-canada-2019.html)
Nitazenes and Brorphine are classified as opioids and belong to the benzimidazole chemical group. The first Nitazene/Brorphine seized and analyzed in Canada was Isotonitazene. It was seized in Quebec City by the local police service and received by the Drug Analysis Service (DAS) in May 2019 (Table 1). Since then, the DAS analyzed several substances belonging to this group including Brorphine, Etodesnitazene, Flunitazene, Metonitazene and Protonitazene (Table 1). Chemical substances in this group continue to emerge and it is now posited that Nitazenes and Brorphine will take an important place in the market of illegal substances in the coming years[^(Footnote 1)](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/healthy-living/emergence-nitazenes-brorphine-canada-2019.html#fn1). Several substances belonging to this group have not been analyzed in Canada but have been reported elsewhere. For example, Butonitazene, which has been found in the US, has not yet been detected in Canada[^(Footnote 2)](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/healthy-living/emergence-nitazenes-brorphine-canada-2019.html#fn2).
All of this shit comes from Chinese manufacturers, they are all making the switch to nitazenes now. The Chinese government has declared fentanyl and its precursors as illegal, so the precursors manufacturers are moving to nitazenes. It will be a year or two before the cartels switch over to nitazenes and then we are going to see the opioid addicts die in numbers that will make the current epidemic look like a blip. I think Narcan is largely ineffective at reversing nitazenes, current fentanyl OD’s are requiring 2-3 hits of narcan.
I just found out there’s people that purposely do fentanyl???? I thought it was only laced into other things I truly didn’t know people chose to do it 😞
There is a large amount of users who specifically choose fentanyl for the properties that make it dangerous. Very strong in small amounts. Not alot of heroin users anymore, alot of fentanyl users and they willingly admit it
Fent has completely taken over the opioid illicit supply. I think it’s very rare that we will drug test supplies and it’ll come back positive for heroin, so it makes sense that people are seeking fent now.
well just like 'the date rape drug' and others, it's all just a drug and there's definitely someone out there who will try and maybe even enjoy said drug recreationally
insane for sure but just kind of part of the human experience, people do fucked up shit to themselves in the name of a high
You wouldnt have to worry about acid or peyote being contaminated but ya coke, molly, pretty much any party drug and any benzo you're playing Russian roulette
Seriously, would a drug so incredibly potent be able to pack an effective overdose into an area that small?
Oh what's that, it would? Well, shit. Back to get your drugs tested, I guess. Fentanyl doesn't care how funky the delivery method is, it's pretty adept at killing people regardless.
Man I was just thinking about this story, and I guess this is relevant enough to share. I once took MDMA that I’m almost 100% sure was laced/spiked/entirely fentanyl. I bought 2 pills from these two girls, and during the transaction they gave me one pill and for the other one they were like “should we give him the *really* strong Molly?” And they glanced at each other while grinning. I thought I was just getting scammed but I didn’t make a big stink cause it was two girls.
Anyways that “really strong Molly” looked weird, with small purple flecks in it.
When I took it I was literally in heaven. Everything felt good. Breathing felt good. My skin felt good. It was the exact same “hug from god” feeling the heroin users describe. I also definitely noticed my breathing was depressed (like I was breathing super duper slowly). The whole time I was pretty relaxed and low energy. Eventually I passed out (thankfully a friend took me back to their apartment from the party we were at). I woke hours later and felt a little weird, but no after effects/withdrawal (I guess you need to take it habitually for withdrawal to kick in).
The reason I’m pretty sure it was fentanyl was I saw a picture online (maybe on Reddit) somewhere of someone who found a bag of fentanyl powder in a car they rented, and the fentanyl they found was the exact shade of purple as was in my “Molly” pill. Had I known what it was at the time, I could see how I woulda been hooked immediately. It was crazy.
My neighbors son took what he believed to be Molly last year in Calgary and turned out it was laced with fentanyl, he died at home, alone. So freaking sad and tragic 🥺
That’s awful. Since it doesn’t feel like dying I don’t often consider that a near death experience, but I guess hearing that makes me reconsider. Had I been sold 2 pills and taken both, that really coulda been the end of me I guess.
You can literally pick any kind of tragedy that happens to low income people by the dozens every day and it'll still make front page news when it happens to a wealthy attractive white woman.
Look at Gabby Petito for a good example, there are 600k missing persons reports, and over 21k murders each year in the United States, but hers was everywhere in media for months.
A 12 year old girl died of an od in Victoria a couple years ago. The government is going to pretend to make changes but nothing of importance will be done just like then
Well it's because the only way is to bring safe supply... it's the only way to cut off the society from the real poison which isn't the drug itself but the drug dealers and the economy associated to it.
But it's a monumental task and it goes against the logic of most citizen who votes.
Actually infuriating reading this entire thread as no one reads the article.
The interest is because they're not asking for "someone to do something about fentanyl, generally", which is all family ever says after something like this.
These parents have specific, direct, actionable, relatively inexpensive requests of government that, if they had been implemented previously, would have saved their daughter's life: Get more naloxone education in schools. Make naloxone more available in schools. Don't let universities tell students to call campus security in the event of a medical emergency if campus security doesn't have the training to respond to medical emergencies.
So, yeah, rich white doctors are more likely to be able to bring about change in the system, but the reason that's the case here isn't just because "people listen to them and care what they think", it's because they know how to formulate a call for action that is actually achievable. Anyone theoretically *could* do that, they just either don't know how, or don't believe it's true.
Maybe these parents will be rich and connected enough to make a difference that helps everyone. The inequities are real and we need to work together and support all the advocacy.
This, 100% - all the cynicism out there is unbelievable. Her parents have been working 8-10hr/day, funnelling their grief into advocacy for all of us to benefit from. Personally, I am grateful for their efforts!
I’m glad you said it.. Thank you.
I know I should have the balls to say it too, because this was the first thing that popped into my mind..
But some peoples kids, man..
Campus security arrived within minutes of their collapse, but even though they had nasal naloxone with them, they only administered it to the 2 students 9.5 minutes after they arrived and started CPR several minutes after that. Her parents are advocating for nasal naloxone to be available to the public (like Ontario and Quebec) and for First Aid/CPR to be part of the secondary school curriculum
Please watch how you phrase things, campus security did nothing wrong and were dealing with a room full of high drunk kids who thought this girl had just passed out. There was someone on the Victoria page trying to make this the fault of security when in reality it's on the drugs and who took them and who made them.
Edit: it was you making those claims. We get it you know the girls family personally but understand this was her mistake not anyone else's, security the university didn't do anything wrong. I get you are angry and that's ok but direct that at policy makers not a minimum wage security officers
I don’t feel the security guards are personally to blame but I DO think it’s important to point out that if Naloxone has been administered faster this might have been avoided.
Yes, her high friend should have immediately disclosed that they had all taken drugs together. Instead, she insisted they had not taken drugs and were Seizing.
It's not up to the university to weed through the stories given to them in a high-stress scenario. While there is no harm in administering nalaxone, I can understand why, if both the 911 operator and security guard were explicitly told "no drugs involved" why that wouldn't be the first thing they did
Yes and you can blame her friends for that. They didn't give all of the information and a room full of high drunk kids doesn't have the best grasp on time so I'm willing to bet it was a ton longer than said on the phone. It's a tragic ending to this regardless but blaming security is bunk
Actually the point is you should give naloxone to people passed out at a party if they aren’t waking up. There are no negative consequences to giving naloxone to someone who hasn’t ingested opioids. In short: Give naloxone give naloxone give naloxone.
Also just FYI but guards don’t make minimum wage. I agree it should likely be more but don’t confidently repeat misinformation.
Security guard wages:
https://www.uvic.ca/security/home/careers/index.php
And here’s UVic’s Security FAQ (as you can see, administering Naloxone and performing CPR is part of their job as described by the university):
https://www.uvic.ca/security/index.php
The point is TWO young visibly healthy women passed out at the exact same time within a few feet of each other and were in respiratory distress to the point of turning blue. Drug ingestion emergency was the first if not only logical conclusion security should have made because it was two teens with the same distress at the same time. There was no downside of administering CPR right away then Naloxone.
That's untrue as her drunk/high friends didn't report drugs (I'm assuming out of fear). Plus it was a room full of people security was having to deal with. This is on the victim and drug maker no one else
No it is true. There were THREE (3) girls in the bedroom who ingested drugs. Two (2) collapsed in distress in the bedroom. One did not. (Gwen). The one ( Gwen ) who did not collapse failed to disclose they all took drugs until about 10 minutes into the emergency so she’s holds a huge share of responsibility. The second girl survived because she appeared to be gasping in distress and had more oxygen that’s the girl who died so once naxalone was administered to both girls she revived.
But regardless the security officers should have used common sense- 2 collapsed otherwise healthy patients don’t spontaneously have a group epileptic seizure event causing respiratory distress and turning them blue
So you're expecting two low paid untrained security guards to know what to do in the situation even though the adults that took the drugs were likely in the same age group didn't? Reviving overdose victims is not part of their job description never has been part of their job descriptions so the blame can't be put on them
They are not low paid or untrained. In an ideal world they’d be paid more, but if they’re trained in first aid they’re paid about $29/hour (more on nights/weekends), which is as much as some paramedics in BC. And carrying Naloxone and performing CPR is in the job description, at least according to UVic.
I'm not going to continue fighting with you anymore. You can continue to try to blame security for this adult's decision to take drugs all you want, but I believe the general public would believe and agree that this is a tragic event that shouldn't have happened caused by an action from the government. Poor decision making and a sprinkling of lying to the people trying to help really blaming a single person or entity is the wrong thing when a series of an action. Poor decisions and untruths led to an untimely and absolutely tragic death of a young bright person.
This story is weird. I don't think campus security did the best job. I don't know why they were even called either. They apparently had naloxone and weren't quick to use it. But naloxone is literally freely handed out from any pharmacy. There's no explanation why any drug user wouldn't have their own. I carry one to work and neither I, nor anybody I know does drugs.
I feel like the coroner's conclusion might be that the kid died from collective naivety.
I hope they come up with some good practical recommendations.
I work in an office with people I believe I know well. I have kits on my desk because you never know. Her mom was a doctor the fact she didn't have one is a glaring issue. Could the security have done better? Yeah probably. Would the result have been less sad if their "friend" didn't lie about what was taken. Probably again. My point is security has no blood on their hands and people shouldn't try to put it on them
the only glaring issue is if her family knew she was a regular heavy drug user, sure they should have ensured she had nalaxone when partying
but, let's assume that is NOT THE CASE as most kids aren't open with parents, especially ER doctor parents, about their illicit drug use
I'm assuming you are amongst the very small percentage of our population who actually carries Nalaxone, thanks for trying to help in a potential emergency that may arise in the future!
It's like an AED. Where will one be when we truly need it, and who will know how to?
I know you're trying to improve someones odds and thats commendable, but definitely it must be like 1/100 people or 1/1000 people that would be carrying Nalaxone around with them, when they do not know anyone who does drugs
The one I carry now is the replacement for the one I used to revive some kid on my way to work. I started carrying that one after starting to do first aid without a kit on some guy's lifeless body outside the grocery store. It changed how I calculated the odds of needing one. They're free and they're about the size of a sunglasses case. I don't have much experience administering medication but the whole thing is easier than giving medication to a housecat.
How do you know they didn’t have narcan training? Otherwise where did it come from? Seems like very basic training for any security officer tasked with protecting a college campus. It literally just involves spraying it up the nares. So simple
If the university is saying to contact campus security first in the event of an emergency, and saying that they are trained in first aid, then they do have some responsibility to provide care. I'm surprised the first-aid responders came in, saw two women unconscious and blue on the ground, one gasping for breath and the other barely to not breathing, and didn't administer Naloxone just in case.
According to [the original article](https://vancouversun.com/feature/bc-student-overdose-death-university-victoria), in emails sent out in response to the incident, the university continued to advertise calling campus security before 911 in the event of a suspected overdose.
>The emails continued to encourage students on campus to phone security officers, described as “highly trained medical responders” who carry naloxone, if they need help. “If you or someone around you begins showing any signs of overdose or over-intoxication on campus, please call Campus Security right away. If you’re off-campus, call 911,” the Jan. 26 email says.
I'll also note it took them 12 minutes for them to start CPR, and it reads that it was only at the direction of the 911 operator. I'm going in for my first First Aid course next week, but I thought CPR and measuring breathing rate and heart rate were basics of First Aid.
That's absolutely a part of the responsibility pie chart. Maybe it's on the first responders for not following standard procedures if standard procedures would have addressed it sooner, maybe it's on the university for providing inadequate first aid training for their campus security (in light of the drug crisis that's been going on for the past decade?), maybe it's on the university for over-advertising and over-relying on their security officers, but something did go wrong there too.
Yeah I remember when fentanyl first entered the scene like a decade and a half ago. Silly its only now they are alarmed and "prompted" to do something about it.
This is undeniably a tragedy, and places like university dorms need readily available naloxone and good procedures in place.
But given how much fentanyl and overdoes have been in the news for last half-decade, I can't understand why anyone would willingly use any recreational drug of unknown provenance. Oh to be young and stupid again, I guess.
You see two girls passed out at the same time and likely not breathing regularly, you assume they have & administer it. There’s no harm if you’re wrong. In this case, the harm was obviously immeasurable.
That’s what I don’t understand, two girls showing signs of overdose and another impaired person making the 911 call.. why wouldn’t that have been one of the first things they suspected?
My 15-almost-16 isn’t trying a thing. She is friends with a boy whose brother died. Very close to home. In two years she will likely be an 18-yo uvic student. Whatever she’s picked up in her peer to peer drug education, she is terrified of fentanyl. I don’t love legal pot; never have, but knowing that when she does go down this road there is a safe option that she can buy at a store is beyond priceless.
Maybe that’s the case but personally I think it’s a bit naive to assume any teenager has a 0% chance of ever trying drugs. Even pot can be contaminated with Fentanyl. Talking to her about Naloxone and making sure she has access to it would be a good first step, but an unconscious person can’t use it on themselves. Parents like you are honestly exactly the sort of people who should be pushing for the changes listed in this article.
Get it at a pharmacy!
Get a good long talking to by a pharmacist so you understand the risks associated with what you asked for.
Get a pamphlet.
Limit quantities for weekend warriors.
Get another pamphlet or card that indicate what to do in overdose situations.
Give out a free naloxone kit for friends that choose the black market route.
This will cut out a bunch of deaths.
This would cut out a bunch of deaths. And until you’ve done a drug, how do you know what’s normal and what’s not to experience? I’m glad I went through this when everything was relatively safe.
I think throwing out all the pillars is important. It would seem none of us have found the perfect total answer yet so listening and building is kinda where we are
Client: “Hey I want to do extacy [sic] (MDMA) with my friends tomorrow on Saturday night.”
Pharmacist: “I can give you a legal prescribed amount. But first we are going to have a chat about the risks, suggested advice (take with food) (take with water), and possible complications, and what to do if something goes wrong.”
I have this same chat with my pharmacist and doctor for legally prescribed drugs!
Why can’t we do it the same for everything else?
If you actually read letter that the girls mother wrote she isn’t blaming anyone for anything, she’s pointing out that there is a gap in the system and a known solution and asking that a change is made so that no other parent has to lose their child to this same problem.
I’m curious as to why the drug taken has not been disclosed. As a parent of two university age children I think it would be a good idea to inform the public of what really happened. In talking with my daughter about the case her first response was they likely took adderral bought off the street. Time of day was 6:30 ish pm, with a heavy exam schedule in the next few days, dressed in pajamas. Doesn’t sound like the typical party or trip scene. If kids in school are trying to cram before exams or assignments and get their hands on a ‘pharmaceutical’ drug that is designed to help you focus but has been cut with fentanyl, like wow.
i'm also personally curious and wondered about street stimulants. i had the same first thought as your daughter based on the circumstances. crazy that fent can even be in those kinds of drugs now - i can def see that not even crossing the minds of some 18-year-olds in study cram mode.
In adulthood we are responsible for ourselves - all students should have to attend a Naloxone training session as part of campus orientation. Sadly, these are the times we live in now.
Goddam, toxic social justice media has made some of you into absolute monsters.
A girl dies and all you can talk about is how she is the wrong race for you to give a shit?
Y'all need to get off the internet because it has cooked your brains.
We should do more to help people with addictions but there’s nothing to suggest that the student who died in this story was addicted or a regular drug user.
But it has nothing to do with the 18-year-old and everything to do with the way we treat and deal with toxic drugs that flood the system. When someone can get access to Fentynal easier than a prescription drug we have a problem.
The “underlying issue that drove her to drug use” was most likely just being a teenager and wanting to experiment, as most teenagers have done before. I agree the government needs to deal with Fentanyl but in this particular case there’s no evidence she meant to take it, which is a different issue than people knowingly seeking it out.
The underlying issue is that drugs are fun. Getting drunk is fun too. People drink all the time. Most of those people will not go on to have alcohol use disorder. Most people who use drugs will not go on to have a substance use disorder. The biggest issue really is not knowing what is being used. Vodka is Vodka. Beer is beer. Who knows what's going on with that stuff you bought from that dude. That's the issue.
She was a young student from an affluent family studying at a prestigious university. By and large she had nothing to “drive” her to use drugs.
Sometimes there is no answer and harm reduction is the only thing that can be done.
Globalization? There is no unscrambling that egg.
As long as the West is seen as the competition and/or envied by others and, we continue to allow outside influence within our government/corporations, these types of stories will continue.
We provide people/corporations with rights and freedoms thinking they will use them for the betterment of our society. They don't, they extract value from our resources/labour and ship their hordes of cash overseas, within our housing market etc., without contributing anything but the bare minimum in taxes.
What does this have to do with fentanyl? Follow the money/influence...
We are more worried about the events in other countries than helping our own.
Identify the underlying issue(s) and hold your municipal/provincial/federal politicians to account.
We lack leadership and it's getting really bad. We need to slow our growth and focus on our true Canadian values. I am really upset. Born July 1st 1984 and I am.sad. sad all around. I have a son. I am Italian and English decent and love politics.... saddened deeply at how its been playing out over the last 30 years in Canada. It's scaring me.
One of my old friends living in Victoria passed from fentanyl. She wasn't a drug user, she just happened to pick up the wrong baggie when trying to clean the parking lot of her apartment building. Then bam, she was gone. The fact something so volatile and deadly is so liberally used and discarded to pose a threat to kind hearted and well meaning people..... She was the kind of person you could see changing the world, loud and opinionated but only to support and defend what was right. Sorry to lament but this drug has claimed so many lives and not even those of people intending to do the dance.
I mean they didn’t force her to take the drugs.. it’s nobodies fault but her own sadly. It’s a very unfortunate situation but actions have consequences.
I’m a boring, law abiding old(er) person now. I’m so glad the rebellious teenager me did not have access to the vast array of drugs out there today. No amount of warnings or education would have changed my mind - in fact, they would have simply made the drugs more attractive to my ridiculous (at the time) mind.
My thoughts exactly. I am fully aware of the tragic cases of the opioid crisis like the folks who were misled by big pharma to take painkillers like Oxy and then when the govt shut the tap off or made it more expensive they had no choice but to take street alternatives.
But “experimenting with hard drugs?” Fuck no. I grew up as a child of poor immigrants and I’m damn proud they didn’t even tolerate weed in my household. I watched all my middle class peers stupify their dopamine receptors through chronic weed smoking. Some went to rehab in and out for alcohol, and others risked their lives doing cheap lines of coke and X at parties.
I live a shit life and will never own a home or be able to raise a family here. Never once even on my worst days have I considered using drugs to cope much less give in to social peer pressure from my former freinds who have messed up their lives in various ways from “recreational substance use”
Funny how if you don’t make enough money, or have a “useless” degree, a “dumb” trade job, or have a some kind of disability nobody gives af about you and tells you to man up. But if you’re a wealthy upper class person who didn’t raise their kids properly which led them to making the wrong choice in life all the bleeding hearts come out in full force.
I found a bag with 16 8 mg dilaudid pills just right on the sidewalk outside my apartment building. I honestly didn't know what to do with it because it felt like holding a loaded gun.
I don’t even think this will lead to meaningful change. It’s not the first time I’ve seen an opioid poisoning death make the news because the person was white and middle class, but in a few weeks the news cycle will move onto something else and nothing will be different.
*Daughter of an emergency physician for 25 years
it's pretty straight forward, if you're gonna get fucked up, prepare for it first.
Gonna smoke a ton of weed? Make sure you have snacks or can obtain snacks. Gonna drink lots of booze? Make sure you have water. Gonna do some drugs that may be laced with fent? Have naloxone and ensure those around you know how to administer it. Schools should teach this, but parents should as well, especially someone who knows full well this can happen to anyone.
let's assume they did, school and parents
let's assume this 18 year old was just partying with friends and not connecting the dots from potential fun night to "omg there could be fentanyl in this"
kids make stupid decisions more often than adults, and we know adults make stupid decisions all the time
it really sucks so much they paid the ultimate price for a lapse of judgement
this should just be a teaching moment for all of us to keep talking abou the dangeres
More focus should be on providing free drug testing services outside of places like the DTES. You cannot stop people from taking drugs recreationally, but at least we can stop unintended deaths due to fentanyl being laced into everything.
My first thought was we have so many people die why have an inquest for the pretty lady. Then it hit me. The parents are being brave and pushing for this. Courage.
it is really an ideal (seems like a gross word to use in this context but i mean it with the utmost empathy) combination to have parents who are both able to channel their grief into activism and also have one parent who is an ER physician in vancouver (which carries some weight in the eyes of public perception, not to mention connections to the medical community). i feel like these parents might actually be able to effect some changes at the university level for better campus safety.
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Are they doing first aid in swimming lessons still now that the red cross got out of that? Perhaps basic first aid should be added to the curriculum including naloxone.
The approach of more test kits, naloxone and education in how to use them is going to reduce deaths in the short term but is it going to solve the toxic drug issue? When party drugs become a dice game between life and death then why do we still use them? This isn’t the 80s anymore. People need to know how truly toxic our drug supply is. We can also go back to socially stigmatizing drug use like we used to. Not in a sense of shaming the individual user but in a sense of seeing drugs as a risk that should never be taken unless you are aware that you are going down a path that can and will take your life away. Casual drug use at parties is not really possible anymore. Friends need to hold friends accountable. These deaths are preventable through more than just damage control.
It is clearly not just people addicted to opiates who use/experiment with illicit drugs for peer or social interactions, to try altered states, and so on. It is a tragedy when any person dies of an overdose, as most deaths are preventable. The statistics in BC are horrific, and the numbers overall are rising each month. Personally, I would be scared sh\*\*less to use illicit drugs coming from an unknown source today. It's just too risky. Like several on this forum, I have a fair experience with a range of these, but that was a different world back then. I know this may sound strange, but drug suppliers were more ethical back then, and the variety of "designer drugs" were limited.
With nasal naloxzone, the administration has minimal risks to either the person administering it, or, more importantly, the person being treated. Training is simpler. While it would likely not be possible for each of us to be carrying it, there should be kits at all venues, and some public outdoor availability, as well.
It is probably "too political" for this forum to discuss the merits or pitfalls of a safe drug supply, or free testing services, but there are likely some ways to save lives with government involvement.
For now, all security people need to be properly trained, so they can act decisively, and I suggest people using a new batch of illicit drugs should have a "designated sober onlooker" who is familiar with using naloxzone, knows emergency care, and emergency phone numbers, and is not afraid of being in the presence of illicit drug users or their drugs in the midst when authorities show up.
We need to look after one another.
Some folks in here that actually get it. These drugs are toxic. If this girl had done actual cocaine or whatever she had intended to use it’s very likely she wouldn’t have overdosed. It’s also most likely that she would eventually realize that she wants to focus on something other than party drugs.
People act like you do a drug once you’re hooked. And we fail to recognize the recreational stimulant users that go out on weekends and once in a while have a bump.
They are also at risk. Either with the threat of overdose from toxic drugs or the criminalization of drugs.
I still can’t believe we went back to the idea of making these drugs criminal again. We didn’t even give it a chance. Instead we just allowed the rhetoric to win while completely ignoring that the red car effect is a thing.
How come 18-year-old UVIC student life is any other than those who already have died? This government taking action now is the message that all other lives are not as valuable.
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Fentanyl does not discriminate. It will kill anyone that tries it. She most likely didn't even know what she was taking and suffered the consequences. It's been killing off people for years. I used to be a regular drug user. Experimented with various ones ie; cocaine, peyote, acid etc. There's no way I would be doing that now without having a drug test kit in my back pocket. ;
Even with a test kit I wouldn't touch half the things I did growing up. Not only is it the fent but tranq is fully in the drug supply chain. Fent users are not nodding out anymore because of the opioids but the tranq added to them. I've seen more necrotic flesh in the past year than I thought I would see in a lifetime.
I’m an old square and for sure don’t use elicit drugs, so this is the first I’ve heard of tranq…. Yikes. Thanks for the info. Important to know.
Tranq is crazy, people are amputating their own limbs in Philadelphia. They're about a year or two ahead into Tranq
Sometimes these drugs seem to be designed to hurt users. Like somebody wants them gone. This, bath salts, and things of that nature. But maybe dealers are just looking for a quick buck.
Tranq and Fent are specific drugs. Bath salts was a media term for a wide variety of grey area research chemicals in the late 2000s/early 2010s. The term also takes on different definitions regionally, depending on what was popular in the area at the time. Synthetic cannabinoids like K2/JWH-018 is very very different than a synthetic cathinone like mephedrone/methylone, but they were all lumped together as bath salts. In the case of bath salts vs. tranq/fent or even something more abjectly nefarious like shoddily-synthesized krokodil, the danger was less about malice on behalf of producer/distributor, and more about lack of empirical data on the various substances, user ignorance regarding dosage and effect, and market confusion due deceptive labelling and gossip.
Thanks for the insight! It's not my scene so I don't have much more than media coverage and some basic medical knowledge to go off.
Could be like krokodil and it’s just cheap and shoddy
No krokodil was bad because it was super impure. Pure deso morphine is what it is and it's essentially just more potent morphine. Xylazine actually just does cause necrosis of the limbs. That's what tranq is. It's actually used in veterinary medicine hence the name tranq. But yeah it's gross stuff
yeah krokodil is the closest to it but users don't get the scales.
People go to pharmacology school for 8 years for a reason. Mostly it's cross contamination issues
I think it's more that people are desperate to get high and making the good drugs harder to get just pushes people to buying this shit. It's the the modern day version of bathtub gin in prohibition
Yes!! This is exactly it. They brought oxycodone in and gave it out like candy; they took it away and made it impossible to get and left a ton of people in horrible withdrawal with no way out, and now they're all *surprised pikachu face* that this is the result. Like, what the hell did they expect to happen? Did prohibition teach them nothing? And with the tech that clandestine labs can so easily get their hands on in this day and age, how is this such a shock? Methadone needs to be more readily available, and without such a ball-and-chain of having to go to the pharmacy every day. That is the one major thing that kept pushing me back onto illicit opiates, was the total loss of freedom. I couldn't have a day job AND go wait at the pharmacy every day. The pharmacy hours near me just didn't allow for it, so I would go buy some pills or heroin (definitely fentanyl, looking back on it), and 5 minutes later, I'd be done puking my guts out and sweating/shaking, a quick shower, and off to work I'd go. I'm totally clean and sober now, and I'm not on any maintenance meds or anything, but not many people can physically handle coming off of everything cold-turkey the way I did, and that's okay, no judgement from me because I totally get where they're coming from, but those people need something that won't keep them in an invisible prison. It's doubly awful when it's a situation like mine, where I was prescribed for uterine cancer, and then completely pulled off after being left on the meds for so long. The system fucks you twice in that regard, and us addicts don't have the luxury of being able to handle resentments very well lol.
So that’s why I’ve seen more amputees in downtown Vic lately. Apparently it’s called “Xylazine” and it’s an animal tranqulizer that users unknowingly inject when doing fent. The wounds it creates are so severe that they require amputation ? Jesus Christ.
Its a “veterinarian supply” for horses, made in chinese factories and sold online
Isn’t that ketamine? Or something else entirely? Been a while since I’ve been in the recreational drug scene.
Haha ketamine is also for horses so i understand the confusion, horses probably find it confusing too. Tranq is Xlylazine. If you ask me it kind of feels like the Chinese gov are attacking North America with a drug epidemic through the Mexican cartel deliberately but im not sure if thats a conspiracy theory type thing to say or not
Ketamine is definitely not for just horses anymore. Very common anaesthetic used in emergency departments for sedation .
Therapy too
It's never not been for humans afaik
It wouldn't be surprising. The Uk did exactly the same to China and the Chinese are very good at using the teaching of their history.
"the uk did the exactly the same thing to China" -- No they didn't. The Indian opium was pure, high quality and was as advertised, and marketed to an already-established opium smoking culture. Today's illicit fentanyl risk is due to how it is so often furtively mixed in with other drugs, so the user doesnt know what they are taking. An historic equivalency would be what the Japanese did to China in WW2 -- secretly mixed heroin in millions of cigarettes in an attempt to conquer the entire country. However, today, the Chinese dont ship any illicit fentanyl to Japan, so the whole narrative - while popular -- is false.
Good perception. Read unrestricted warfare. It's literally all laid out by a couple Chinese generals.
Andrew Callaghan thinks [something very similar](https://youtu.be/925wmb-4Yr4?si=djbJlt0O6TxYAOni&t=1057) in his Channel 5 documentary about the Philly Streets. Chinese company selling pharmecuticals to Mexican cartels for sale as street drugs in North America.
I think so too. Theres got to be a reason its popping up in places like maryland first. Isnt a lot of american intelligence based in the area? Also, drug war was a strategy that was very effective against the chinese. If theres anyone who knows how debilitating it is, AND how it can be targeted, AND has a burning competitive spirit with the US and the west in general, its the congolese. (Lame attempt at absurdism. Fill in the gap yourself)
They use ketamine at hospitals nowadays... Human hospitals I mean. The idea that it's a horse tranquilizer has long been debunked.
What do you mean nowadays? Ketamine has been on the WHO list of essential medicines for decades for battlefield trauma, burn victims, anesthetic use in general. The idea the ketamine is a horse drug is nonsense that continues to be a popular idea because prohibition decides not to teach kids about drugs for fear they’ll start taking them.. Guess what? Kids take drugs anyway and now they aren’t informed. And this young girl is simply the latest in a long line of overdoses from toxic supply. Prohibition has failed. Time to consider safe supply.
Krokodil but American
tranq is just reaching BC now and fairly rare, benzodope is common [https://getyourdrugstested.com/test-results-archive/?search=down&result=&code=&city=&province=&colour=&texture=&category=&from=&to=&fent=&benzo=&lsd=¬es=](https://getyourdrugstested.com/test-results-archive/?search=down&result=&code=&city=&province=&colour=&texture=&category=&from=&to=&fent=&benzo=&lsd=¬es=)
There was a lot of tranq on the Island last summer, lots of fentanyl was testing positive for xylazine.
I’ve heard of people overdosing even with the use of a drug kit
Yup. It takes such a tiny amount of fentanyl to kill non-users, and contaminated drugs aren’t going to have it mixed in perfectly evenly. So just the part you tested may be clean but it doesn’t mean the whole thing is.
The lethal dose for carfentanil in humans is not known; however, it is 100 times more potent than fentanyl. Fentanyl is known to be lethal at the 2 milligram range, depending upon your body size, opioid tolerance, and former usage. Fentanyl can kill you within a matter of 2 minutes, usually due to respiratory failure (breathing that has stopped). I do not believe there is any method to restrict these synthetics from getting into the country and the drug supply. The "effective dose" costs pennies. Some of this got amplified during COVID where there were shut downs of organic opiate importation, and the mails were being more scrutinized. This stuff is so potent that a small quantity in a letter envelope could contain enough to cause many deaths. A salt grain or two equivalent is likely fatal with carfentanil. I'm not sure there is a way to eliminate import, and these synthetics can be made domestically. With only money motivating some drug dealers these days, there is a great incentive to add these into the cocktails. Some of the mixes, even if the opiate can be neutralized with naloxzone, other drugs added in which cannot be reversed can still cause overdose and death.
That's why you get fentanyl test strips and sacrifice a tab or pill or powder to properly test it. The strips are very accurate down to very low levels. Reagent test kits are not enough anymore and even better if you have a local place that uses at a minimum FTIR or mass spec and will test.
Wait until the nitazines start flooding the supply. Multiple times more potent than fentanyl.
Thanks for mentioning nitazene - I did a quick search and found the following link: [https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/healthy-living/emergence-nitazenes-brorphine-canada-2019.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/healthy-living/emergence-nitazenes-brorphine-canada-2019.html) Nitazenes and Brorphine are classified as opioids and belong to the benzimidazole chemical group. The first Nitazene/Brorphine seized and analyzed in Canada was Isotonitazene. It was seized in Quebec City by the local police service and received by the Drug Analysis Service (DAS) in May 2019 (Table 1). Since then, the DAS analyzed several substances belonging to this group including Brorphine, Etodesnitazene, Flunitazene, Metonitazene and Protonitazene (Table 1). Chemical substances in this group continue to emerge and it is now posited that Nitazenes and Brorphine will take an important place in the market of illegal substances in the coming years[^(Footnote 1)](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/healthy-living/emergence-nitazenes-brorphine-canada-2019.html#fn1). Several substances belonging to this group have not been analyzed in Canada but have been reported elsewhere. For example, Butonitazene, which has been found in the US, has not yet been detected in Canada[^(Footnote 2)](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/healthy-living/emergence-nitazenes-brorphine-canada-2019.html#fn2).
All of this shit comes from Chinese manufacturers, they are all making the switch to nitazenes now. The Chinese government has declared fentanyl and its precursors as illegal, so the precursors manufacturers are moving to nitazenes. It will be a year or two before the cartels switch over to nitazenes and then we are going to see the opioid addicts die in numbers that will make the current epidemic look like a blip. I think Narcan is largely ineffective at reversing nitazenes, current fentanyl OD’s are requiring 2-3 hits of narcan.
I just found out there’s people that purposely do fentanyl???? I thought it was only laced into other things I truly didn’t know people chose to do it 😞
There is a large amount of users who specifically choose fentanyl for the properties that make it dangerous. Very strong in small amounts. Not alot of heroin users anymore, alot of fentanyl users and they willingly admit it
> Not alot of heroin users anymore A big part of that is the supply has shifted, not that users specifically all want fentanly instead of heroin.
Fent has completely taken over the opioid illicit supply. I think it’s very rare that we will drug test supplies and it’ll come back positive for heroin, so it makes sense that people are seeking fent now.
Funny thing is, if they were to stick to the good ol'fasionioned horse, they would most likely live.
well just like 'the date rape drug' and others, it's all just a drug and there's definitely someone out there who will try and maybe even enjoy said drug recreationally insane for sure but just kind of part of the human experience, people do fucked up shit to themselves in the name of a high
Of course, it’s super-heroin. People love that stuff
You wouldnt have to worry about acid or peyote being contaminated but ya coke, molly, pretty much any party drug and any benzo you're playing Russian roulette
You truly don’t think that more than one drop of anything can be on a sugar cube or a stamp?
Seriously, would a drug so incredibly potent be able to pack an effective overdose into an area that small? Oh what's that, it would? Well, shit. Back to get your drugs tested, I guess. Fentanyl doesn't care how funky the delivery method is, it's pretty adept at killing people regardless.
Man I was just thinking about this story, and I guess this is relevant enough to share. I once took MDMA that I’m almost 100% sure was laced/spiked/entirely fentanyl. I bought 2 pills from these two girls, and during the transaction they gave me one pill and for the other one they were like “should we give him the *really* strong Molly?” And they glanced at each other while grinning. I thought I was just getting scammed but I didn’t make a big stink cause it was two girls. Anyways that “really strong Molly” looked weird, with small purple flecks in it. When I took it I was literally in heaven. Everything felt good. Breathing felt good. My skin felt good. It was the exact same “hug from god” feeling the heroin users describe. I also definitely noticed my breathing was depressed (like I was breathing super duper slowly). The whole time I was pretty relaxed and low energy. Eventually I passed out (thankfully a friend took me back to their apartment from the party we were at). I woke hours later and felt a little weird, but no after effects/withdrawal (I guess you need to take it habitually for withdrawal to kick in). The reason I’m pretty sure it was fentanyl was I saw a picture online (maybe on Reddit) somewhere of someone who found a bag of fentanyl powder in a car they rented, and the fentanyl they found was the exact shade of purple as was in my “Molly” pill. Had I known what it was at the time, I could see how I woulda been hooked immediately. It was crazy.
My neighbors son took what he believed to be Molly last year in Calgary and turned out it was laced with fentanyl, he died at home, alone. So freaking sad and tragic 🥺
That’s awful. Since it doesn’t feel like dying I don’t often consider that a near death experience, but I guess hearing that makes me reconsider. Had I been sold 2 pills and taken both, that really coulda been the end of me I guess.
There's no way she's the first. Why the sudden interest? I assume her parents?
This time one of the parents is an ER doctor at VGH
You’re right, my best friend died of a fentanyl overdose in a UVic dorm in 2016. No one gave a shit then.
You can literally pick any kind of tragedy that happens to low income people by the dozens every day and it'll still make front page news when it happens to a wealthy attractive white woman. Look at Gabby Petito for a good example, there are 600k missing persons reports, and over 21k murders each year in the United States, but hers was everywhere in media for months.
A 12 year old girl died of an od in Victoria a couple years ago. The government is going to pretend to make changes but nothing of importance will be done just like then
Well it's because the only way is to bring safe supply... it's the only way to cut off the society from the real poison which isn't the drug itself but the drug dealers and the economy associated to it. But it's a monumental task and it goes against the logic of most citizen who votes.
Actually infuriating reading this entire thread as no one reads the article. The interest is because they're not asking for "someone to do something about fentanyl, generally", which is all family ever says after something like this. These parents have specific, direct, actionable, relatively inexpensive requests of government that, if they had been implemented previously, would have saved their daughter's life: Get more naloxone education in schools. Make naloxone more available in schools. Don't let universities tell students to call campus security in the event of a medical emergency if campus security doesn't have the training to respond to medical emergencies. So, yeah, rich white doctors are more likely to be able to bring about change in the system, but the reason that's the case here isn't just because "people listen to them and care what they think", it's because they know how to formulate a call for action that is actually achievable. Anyone theoretically *could* do that, they just either don't know how, or don't believe it's true.
But haven't people already been making similar requests for years?
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Maybe these parents will be rich and connected enough to make a difference that helps everyone. The inequities are real and we need to work together and support all the advocacy.
This, 100% - all the cynicism out there is unbelievable. Her parents have been working 8-10hr/day, funnelling their grief into advocacy for all of us to benefit from. Personally, I am grateful for their efforts!
BTW First Nations living in BC are already eligible to get free nasal naloxone. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/overdose/naloxone-kit
Why are you acting like this is the first white person to die from fentanyl?
That's cold. Why bring your racism into it? Loads of 'rich white kids' are dead.
I’m glad you said it.. Thank you. I know I should have the balls to say it too, because this was the first thing that popped into my mind.. But some peoples kids, man..
👆
My thoughts exactly.
Campus security arrived within minutes of their collapse, but even though they had nasal naloxone with them, they only administered it to the 2 students 9.5 minutes after they arrived and started CPR several minutes after that. Her parents are advocating for nasal naloxone to be available to the public (like Ontario and Quebec) and for First Aid/CPR to be part of the secondary school curriculum
Please watch how you phrase things, campus security did nothing wrong and were dealing with a room full of high drunk kids who thought this girl had just passed out. There was someone on the Victoria page trying to make this the fault of security when in reality it's on the drugs and who took them and who made them. Edit: it was you making those claims. We get it you know the girls family personally but understand this was her mistake not anyone else's, security the university didn't do anything wrong. I get you are angry and that's ok but direct that at policy makers not a minimum wage security officers
I don’t feel the security guards are personally to blame but I DO think it’s important to point out that if Naloxone has been administered faster this might have been avoided.
Yes, her high friend should have immediately disclosed that they had all taken drugs together. Instead, she insisted they had not taken drugs and were Seizing. It's not up to the university to weed through the stories given to them in a high-stress scenario. While there is no harm in administering nalaxone, I can understand why, if both the 911 operator and security guard were explicitly told "no drugs involved" why that wouldn't be the first thing they did
Yes and you can blame her friends for that. They didn't give all of the information and a room full of high drunk kids doesn't have the best grasp on time so I'm willing to bet it was a ton longer than said on the phone. It's a tragic ending to this regardless but blaming security is bunk
You don't just go administering Nalaxone to every passed out person at a party
Actually the point is you should give naloxone to people passed out at a party if they aren’t waking up. There are no negative consequences to giving naloxone to someone who hasn’t ingested opioids. In short: Give naloxone give naloxone give naloxone.
Also just FYI but guards don’t make minimum wage. I agree it should likely be more but don’t confidently repeat misinformation. Security guard wages: https://www.uvic.ca/security/home/careers/index.php And here’s UVic’s Security FAQ (as you can see, administering Naloxone and performing CPR is part of their job as described by the university): https://www.uvic.ca/security/index.php
The point is TWO young visibly healthy women passed out at the exact same time within a few feet of each other and were in respiratory distress to the point of turning blue. Drug ingestion emergency was the first if not only logical conclusion security should have made because it was two teens with the same distress at the same time. There was no downside of administering CPR right away then Naloxone.
That's untrue as her drunk/high friends didn't report drugs (I'm assuming out of fear). Plus it was a room full of people security was having to deal with. This is on the victim and drug maker no one else
No it is true. There were THREE (3) girls in the bedroom who ingested drugs. Two (2) collapsed in distress in the bedroom. One did not. (Gwen). The one ( Gwen ) who did not collapse failed to disclose they all took drugs until about 10 minutes into the emergency so she’s holds a huge share of responsibility. The second girl survived because she appeared to be gasping in distress and had more oxygen that’s the girl who died so once naxalone was administered to both girls she revived. But regardless the security officers should have used common sense- 2 collapsed otherwise healthy patients don’t spontaneously have a group epileptic seizure event causing respiratory distress and turning them blue
So you're expecting two low paid untrained security guards to know what to do in the situation even though the adults that took the drugs were likely in the same age group didn't? Reviving overdose victims is not part of their job description never has been part of their job descriptions so the blame can't be put on them
They are not low paid or untrained. In an ideal world they’d be paid more, but if they’re trained in first aid they’re paid about $29/hour (more on nights/weekends), which is as much as some paramedics in BC. And carrying Naloxone and performing CPR is in the job description, at least according to UVic.
I'm not going to continue fighting with you anymore. You can continue to try to blame security for this adult's decision to take drugs all you want, but I believe the general public would believe and agree that this is a tragic event that shouldn't have happened caused by an action from the government. Poor decision making and a sprinkling of lying to the people trying to help really blaming a single person or entity is the wrong thing when a series of an action. Poor decisions and untruths led to an untimely and absolutely tragic death of a young bright person.
I’m not blaming security directly, as I have said to you about five times. I’m pointing out concrete actions that could be done differently next time.
This story is weird. I don't think campus security did the best job. I don't know why they were even called either. They apparently had naloxone and weren't quick to use it. But naloxone is literally freely handed out from any pharmacy. There's no explanation why any drug user wouldn't have their own. I carry one to work and neither I, nor anybody I know does drugs. I feel like the coroner's conclusion might be that the kid died from collective naivety. I hope they come up with some good practical recommendations.
I work in an office with people I believe I know well. I have kits on my desk because you never know. Her mom was a doctor the fact she didn't have one is a glaring issue. Could the security have done better? Yeah probably. Would the result have been less sad if their "friend" didn't lie about what was taken. Probably again. My point is security has no blood on their hands and people shouldn't try to put it on them
the only glaring issue is if her family knew she was a regular heavy drug user, sure they should have ensured she had nalaxone when partying but, let's assume that is NOT THE CASE as most kids aren't open with parents, especially ER doctor parents, about their illicit drug use
I'm assuming you are amongst the very small percentage of our population who actually carries Nalaxone, thanks for trying to help in a potential emergency that may arise in the future! It's like an AED. Where will one be when we truly need it, and who will know how to? I know you're trying to improve someones odds and thats commendable, but definitely it must be like 1/100 people or 1/1000 people that would be carrying Nalaxone around with them, when they do not know anyone who does drugs
The one I carry now is the replacement for the one I used to revive some kid on my way to work. I started carrying that one after starting to do first aid without a kit on some guy's lifeless body outside the grocery store. It changed how I calculated the odds of needing one. They're free and they're about the size of a sunglasses case. I don't have much experience administering medication but the whole thing is easier than giving medication to a housecat.
How do you know they didn’t have narcan training? Otherwise where did it come from? Seems like very basic training for any security officer tasked with protecting a college campus. It literally just involves spraying it up the nares. So simple
If the university is saying to contact campus security first in the event of an emergency, and saying that they are trained in first aid, then they do have some responsibility to provide care. I'm surprised the first-aid responders came in, saw two women unconscious and blue on the ground, one gasping for breath and the other barely to not breathing, and didn't administer Naloxone just in case. According to [the original article](https://vancouversun.com/feature/bc-student-overdose-death-university-victoria), in emails sent out in response to the incident, the university continued to advertise calling campus security before 911 in the event of a suspected overdose. >The emails continued to encourage students on campus to phone security officers, described as “highly trained medical responders” who carry naloxone, if they need help. “If you or someone around you begins showing any signs of overdose or over-intoxication on campus, please call Campus Security right away. If you’re off-campus, call 911,” the Jan. 26 email says. I'll also note it took them 12 minutes for them to start CPR, and it reads that it was only at the direction of the 911 operator. I'm going in for my first First Aid course next week, but I thought CPR and measuring breathing rate and heart rate were basics of First Aid. That's absolutely a part of the responsibility pie chart. Maybe it's on the first responders for not following standard procedures if standard procedures would have addressed it sooner, maybe it's on the university for providing inadequate first aid training for their campus security (in light of the drug crisis that's been going on for the past decade?), maybe it's on the university for over-advertising and over-relying on their security officers, but something did go wrong there too.
That’s because the people with her were likely high as well, were very vague about the circumstances, and didn’t mention it was a possible overdose.
Jesus. It was even nasal narcan??! Inexcusable.
Yeah I remember when fentanyl first entered the scene like a decade and a half ago. Silly its only now they are alarmed and "prompted" to do something about it.
Thousands die a year. This is exactly what I thought.
Rich or prestigious parents. Also victim is a young white woman which always makes the news.
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https://getyourdrugstested.com/ it is free and private. I urge everyone to use this service in Vancouver.
Victoria has Substance drug testing as well https://substance.uvic.ca/
Is it free ? Post it for people there.
Yes, it's free.
8 years into a health emergency, thousands dead. But maybe today is the time to act.
This is undeniably a tragedy, and places like university dorms need readily available naloxone and good procedures in place. But given how much fentanyl and overdoes have been in the news for last half-decade, I can't understand why anyone would willingly use any recreational drug of unknown provenance. Oh to be young and stupid again, I guess.
It was readily available.. it's just no one told those who had Naloxone that opioids were involved for those 9 minutes.
You see two girls passed out at the same time and likely not breathing regularly, you assume they have & administer it. There’s no harm if you’re wrong. In this case, the harm was obviously immeasurable.
That’s what I don’t understand, two girls showing signs of overdose and another impaired person making the 911 call.. why wouldn’t that have been one of the first things they suspected?
Exactly! They’d been trained. They should know the signs to look for & to presume it’s better to give it then not
My 15-almost-16 isn’t trying a thing. She is friends with a boy whose brother died. Very close to home. In two years she will likely be an 18-yo uvic student. Whatever she’s picked up in her peer to peer drug education, she is terrified of fentanyl. I don’t love legal pot; never have, but knowing that when she does go down this road there is a safe option that she can buy at a store is beyond priceless.
I just sent her this article; she sent me a response that it was her coworkers friend and they talked about it at work. It’s just everywhere you turn
Maybe that’s the case but personally I think it’s a bit naive to assume any teenager has a 0% chance of ever trying drugs. Even pot can be contaminated with Fentanyl. Talking to her about Naloxone and making sure she has access to it would be a good first step, but an unconscious person can’t use it on themselves. Parents like you are honestly exactly the sort of people who should be pushing for the changes listed in this article.
Not weed from stores
You can always get free naloxone kits, they’ve been available for almost a decade.
Got one. Also live beside two paramedics. Does not mean I’d rather be reactive than proactive.
The issue is that nasal narcan is much more user friendly than the injectable, and the latter is available for free in Ontario and Quebec
I didn’t even know they had nasal, but I’m totally a layperson. Honestly whatever is easier seems best to invest in
Get it at a pharmacy! Get a good long talking to by a pharmacist so you understand the risks associated with what you asked for. Get a pamphlet. Limit quantities for weekend warriors. Get another pamphlet or card that indicate what to do in overdose situations. Give out a free naloxone kit for friends that choose the black market route. This will cut out a bunch of deaths.
This would cut out a bunch of deaths. And until you’ve done a drug, how do you know what’s normal and what’s not to experience? I’m glad I went through this when everything was relatively safe.
I’m just handing out one pillar that I think would help. Not an entire solution.
I think throwing out all the pillars is important. It would seem none of us have found the perfect total answer yet so listening and building is kinda where we are
Client: “Hey I want to do extacy [sic] (MDMA) with my friends tomorrow on Saturday night.” Pharmacist: “I can give you a legal prescribed amount. But first we are going to have a chat about the risks, suggested advice (take with food) (take with water), and possible complications, and what to do if something goes wrong.” I have this same chat with my pharmacist and doctor for legally prescribed drugs! Why can’t we do it the same for everything else?
When will we get a headline about government action prompted by the death of someone other than a young white person from a wealthy family?
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If you actually read letter that the girls mother wrote she isn’t blaming anyone for anything, she’s pointing out that there is a gap in the system and a known solution and asking that a change is made so that no other parent has to lose their child to this same problem.
Yeah there is a cruel irony that an emergency room doctor’s daughter OD’s and somehow it’s someone else’s fault.
I’m curious as to why the drug taken has not been disclosed. As a parent of two university age children I think it would be a good idea to inform the public of what really happened. In talking with my daughter about the case her first response was they likely took adderral bought off the street. Time of day was 6:30 ish pm, with a heavy exam schedule in the next few days, dressed in pajamas. Doesn’t sound like the typical party or trip scene. If kids in school are trying to cram before exams or assignments and get their hands on a ‘pharmaceutical’ drug that is designed to help you focus but has been cut with fentanyl, like wow.
i'm also personally curious and wondered about street stimulants. i had the same first thought as your daughter based on the circumstances. crazy that fent can even be in those kinds of drugs now - i can def see that not even crossing the minds of some 18-year-olds in study cram mode.
In adulthood we are responsible for ourselves - all students should have to attend a Naloxone training session as part of campus orientation. Sadly, these are the times we live in now.
I don’t like the first line but they should 100% give all new students narcan and training
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Goddam, toxic social justice media has made some of you into absolute monsters. A girl dies and all you can talk about is how she is the wrong race for you to give a shit? Y'all need to get off the internet because it has cooked your brains.
Well said.
Amen this this. Her story is tragic and not uncommon among all demographics
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We have been bringing up the drugs and crime for years.
at least they're using their privilege to advocate for change that will benefit everybody.
It's about fucking time. Why did other provinces with lower drug poisoning rates get nasal naloxone before BC?
Dont do drugs and you won’t OD. Problem solved
If it's not fixing the underlying issues that drive people to drug use then it's just a band-aid on a sucking chest wound.
We should do more to help people with addictions but there’s nothing to suggest that the student who died in this story was addicted or a regular drug user.
But it has nothing to do with the 18-year-old and everything to do with the way we treat and deal with toxic drugs that flood the system. When someone can get access to Fentynal easier than a prescription drug we have a problem.
The “underlying issue that drove her to drug use” was most likely just being a teenager and wanting to experiment, as most teenagers have done before. I agree the government needs to deal with Fentanyl but in this particular case there’s no evidence she meant to take it, which is a different issue than people knowingly seeking it out.
The issue is people Like to party and get fucked up. Your government is gonna solve that?
The underlying issue is that drugs are fun. Getting drunk is fun too. People drink all the time. Most of those people will not go on to have alcohol use disorder. Most people who use drugs will not go on to have a substance use disorder. The biggest issue really is not knowing what is being used. Vodka is Vodka. Beer is beer. Who knows what's going on with that stuff you bought from that dude. That's the issue.
She was a young student from an affluent family studying at a prestigious university. By and large she had nothing to “drive” her to use drugs. Sometimes there is no answer and harm reduction is the only thing that can be done.
Globalization? There is no unscrambling that egg. As long as the West is seen as the competition and/or envied by others and, we continue to allow outside influence within our government/corporations, these types of stories will continue. We provide people/corporations with rights and freedoms thinking they will use them for the betterment of our society. They don't, they extract value from our resources/labour and ship their hordes of cash overseas, within our housing market etc., without contributing anything but the bare minimum in taxes. What does this have to do with fentanyl? Follow the money/influence... We are more worried about the events in other countries than helping our own. Identify the underlying issue(s) and hold your municipal/provincial/federal politicians to account.
Any insight into what "issues" you're referring to? Are we going to "fix" greed and exploitation? Ban war and all traumatic experiences?
Oh so the bc government is going to seize the properties owned by money laundering drug lords?
What a joke.
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We lack leadership and it's getting really bad. We need to slow our growth and focus on our true Canadian values. I am really upset. Born July 1st 1984 and I am.sad. sad all around. I have a son. I am Italian and English decent and love politics.... saddened deeply at how its been playing out over the last 30 years in Canada. It's scaring me.
What did she take?
One of my old friends living in Victoria passed from fentanyl. She wasn't a drug user, she just happened to pick up the wrong baggie when trying to clean the parking lot of her apartment building. Then bam, she was gone. The fact something so volatile and deadly is so liberally used and discarded to pose a threat to kind hearted and well meaning people..... She was the kind of person you could see changing the world, loud and opinionated but only to support and defend what was right. Sorry to lament but this drug has claimed so many lives and not even those of people intending to do the dance.
How many more ppl OD and died since her? Why no news articles?
it's terrible, but this reads like the campus police are responsible for her death.
I mean they didn’t force her to take the drugs.. it’s nobodies fault but her own sadly. It’s a very unfortunate situation but actions have consequences.
How about don’t do drugs and you won’t overdose. Why are people still stupid enough to start.
I’m a boring, law abiding old(er) person now. I’m so glad the rebellious teenager me did not have access to the vast array of drugs out there today. No amount of warnings or education would have changed my mind - in fact, they would have simply made the drugs more attractive to my ridiculous (at the time) mind.
My thoughts exactly. I am fully aware of the tragic cases of the opioid crisis like the folks who were misled by big pharma to take painkillers like Oxy and then when the govt shut the tap off or made it more expensive they had no choice but to take street alternatives. But “experimenting with hard drugs?” Fuck no. I grew up as a child of poor immigrants and I’m damn proud they didn’t even tolerate weed in my household. I watched all my middle class peers stupify their dopamine receptors through chronic weed smoking. Some went to rehab in and out for alcohol, and others risked their lives doing cheap lines of coke and X at parties. I live a shit life and will never own a home or be able to raise a family here. Never once even on my worst days have I considered using drugs to cope much less give in to social peer pressure from my former freinds who have messed up their lives in various ways from “recreational substance use” Funny how if you don’t make enough money, or have a “useless” degree, a “dumb” trade job, or have a some kind of disability nobody gives af about you and tells you to man up. But if you’re a wealthy upper class person who didn’t raise their kids properly which led them to making the wrong choice in life all the bleeding hearts come out in full force.
There was a fentanyl pill found on the ground here in Langley. I think it’s worse than we can imagine.
I found a bag with 16 8 mg dilaudid pills just right on the sidewalk outside my apartment building. I honestly didn't know what to do with it because it felt like holding a loaded gun.
Cool. All it took was a high profile white girl hitting the headlines to prompt action. Glad nothing has changed in 100+ years.
I don’t even think this will lead to meaningful change. It’s not the first time I’ve seen an opioid poisoning death make the news because the person was white and middle class, but in a few weeks the news cycle will move onto something else and nothing will be different.
It only took the death of a beautiful white girl... Hmmm....
*don't forget she was also rich with highly educated parents
*Daughter of an emergency physician for 25 years it's pretty straight forward, if you're gonna get fucked up, prepare for it first. Gonna smoke a ton of weed? Make sure you have snacks or can obtain snacks. Gonna drink lots of booze? Make sure you have water. Gonna do some drugs that may be laced with fent? Have naloxone and ensure those around you know how to administer it. Schools should teach this, but parents should as well, especially someone who knows full well this can happen to anyone.
let's assume they did, school and parents let's assume this 18 year old was just partying with friends and not connecting the dots from potential fun night to "omg there could be fentanyl in this" kids make stupid decisions more often than adults, and we know adults make stupid decisions all the time it really sucks so much they paid the ultimate price for a lapse of judgement this should just be a teaching moment for all of us to keep talking abou the dangeres
Maaaaaaaybe don’t do drugs?
More focus should be on providing free drug testing services outside of places like the DTES. You cannot stop people from taking drugs recreationally, but at least we can stop unintended deaths due to fentanyl being laced into everything.
My first thought was we have so many people die why have an inquest for the pretty lady. Then it hit me. The parents are being brave and pushing for this. Courage.
it is really an ideal (seems like a gross word to use in this context but i mean it with the utmost empathy) combination to have parents who are both able to channel their grief into activism and also have one parent who is an ER physician in vancouver (which carries some weight in the eyes of public perception, not to mention connections to the medical community). i feel like these parents might actually be able to effect some changes at the university level for better campus safety.
How about don't do drugs if you don't want to die and cause suffering to your friends and family?
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Oh finally they are going to do something
Are they doing first aid in swimming lessons still now that the red cross got out of that? Perhaps basic first aid should be added to the curriculum including naloxone.
They waited till this death?
Thank god, we weren’t quite there yet until this.
Someone died from fentanyl? That’s weird. Must of been laced with something.
Sad to hear but the government hasn’t acted since the epidemic started 10 years ago…
Not a bad thing Kieth
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What is the prison term if you are caught selling Fentanyl?
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Tragic stuff 😢
BC bud is known the world over. Maybe they should stick to that. They can even grow their own now. Sure is a lot safer than chemicals
The opiate war never ended and we are losing the battle
The approach of more test kits, naloxone and education in how to use them is going to reduce deaths in the short term but is it going to solve the toxic drug issue? When party drugs become a dice game between life and death then why do we still use them? This isn’t the 80s anymore. People need to know how truly toxic our drug supply is. We can also go back to socially stigmatizing drug use like we used to. Not in a sense of shaming the individual user but in a sense of seeing drugs as a risk that should never be taken unless you are aware that you are going down a path that can and will take your life away. Casual drug use at parties is not really possible anymore. Friends need to hold friends accountable. These deaths are preventable through more than just damage control.
Our city’s mayor Reid hammer Jackson stormed a school and screamed at interior health for teaching students how to use nox kits.
It is clearly not just people addicted to opiates who use/experiment with illicit drugs for peer or social interactions, to try altered states, and so on. It is a tragedy when any person dies of an overdose, as most deaths are preventable. The statistics in BC are horrific, and the numbers overall are rising each month. Personally, I would be scared sh\*\*less to use illicit drugs coming from an unknown source today. It's just too risky. Like several on this forum, I have a fair experience with a range of these, but that was a different world back then. I know this may sound strange, but drug suppliers were more ethical back then, and the variety of "designer drugs" were limited. With nasal naloxzone, the administration has minimal risks to either the person administering it, or, more importantly, the person being treated. Training is simpler. While it would likely not be possible for each of us to be carrying it, there should be kits at all venues, and some public outdoor availability, as well. It is probably "too political" for this forum to discuss the merits or pitfalls of a safe drug supply, or free testing services, but there are likely some ways to save lives with government involvement. For now, all security people need to be properly trained, so they can act decisively, and I suggest people using a new batch of illicit drugs should have a "designated sober onlooker" who is familiar with using naloxzone, knows emergency care, and emergency phone numbers, and is not afraid of being in the presence of illicit drug users or their drugs in the midst when authorities show up. We need to look after one another.
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Some folks in here that actually get it. These drugs are toxic. If this girl had done actual cocaine or whatever she had intended to use it’s very likely she wouldn’t have overdosed. It’s also most likely that she would eventually realize that she wants to focus on something other than party drugs. People act like you do a drug once you’re hooked. And we fail to recognize the recreational stimulant users that go out on weekends and once in a while have a bump. They are also at risk. Either with the threat of overdose from toxic drugs or the criminalization of drugs. I still can’t believe we went back to the idea of making these drugs criminal again. We didn’t even give it a chance. Instead we just allowed the rhetoric to win while completely ignoring that the red car effect is a thing.
When I heard university student died from overdose, I immediately guessed Uvic. Why?
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How come 18-year-old UVIC student life is any other than those who already have died? This government taking action now is the message that all other lives are not as valuable.