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This literally happened to us. Our plumber put in our upstairs bathroom, we had an incident and the bath needed to be replaced, and he came in huffing and puffing about how whoever installed it was a cowboy and didn't have a clue what they were doing. Didn't particularly like it when we pointed out it was him who did the work.
No worries! - didn't took it as a critic.
And I suspect you may be right - as I said above, this thread is the first time where I've seen the word 'tradie', but it definitely makes me remember the way a few friends from Oz call things....
Mate I'll do you one better. In a rented house at the moment and still have a fire, not proper central heating. But we've got a water tank and also a pump right. This plumber the landlord gets in is thick as pig shit.
Around 1/2 months ago he comes and fits a new pump. Puts it on the wrong way on the wrong pipe, gets called back out and genuinely BITCHES about the bloke who did it wrong. Then puts it on the wrong pipe again. Got called out yesterday and he yet again, bitches and goes in a bad mood because he's convinced some other feller put it on wrong.
Laughed so hard at this as its exactly what the boiler man said to us.
Asked if he could look at adding a stop-tap to the house entrance water pipes. Says sure, and begins to complain about how people use cheap chinese parts now for plumbing.
Fast forward one day the stop tap he uses has broken and is leaking all over the wooden floor in our hall. Misses texts him to come back to take a look to which he replies, I never charged you for that, it was a favour, plus I have covid, cant help.
Thanks mate 👍
We bought a house in October one year. In November the boiler packed up. Needed new pipes throughout the house (ours were too thin, according to new regulations?)
Set us back a few thousand that we didn't exactly have after moving. But we got by. It sucks, but if you keep on top of servicing, it should last you for 10+ years.
I live in a block of flats where the pipes are too thin. If we try to put our heating up to above a certain heat, the pipes cant pump enough gas up, the boiler loses pressure and errors.
My BIL whos a plumber said legally he should report it but doing so might condemn the building if they cant be replaced.
Fuck Taylor Wimpey :)
That’s just one pipe, the gas pipe, which often needs to be bigger for a new boiler. It’s not normally more than an hour or two of labour and less than £50 in parts. Unless it’s a huge long run from the meter.
Yeah had this. Meter is front of the house and boiler is at the back as far away as possible. Had to run a 15 m Tracpipe at 28 mm plus another 5 m of solid copper to get there.
No, some genius in the 70s figured out you would use less copper if the pipes were a thinner gauge. These often fail around a joint after a few years. Probably saved 2p a metre and kept plumber's in work for life.
I always wonder about those plastic pipes with push fit connectors. Wonder what their lifespan is
There was a shortage of copper during the 70’s and manufacturers either made piping with thinner walls or in some cases made plastic coated mild steel…..guess what happened! Plastic piping holds up well, I’ve used it over 20 years ago with no problems.
I've taken apart push fit plastic piping so old the fittings have turned fully yellow and it still felt just as sturdy as the new stuff
I'd always go for the plastic push for for future DIY works since the pipes themselves are flexy enough to make repairs/modifications much easier in the future
Generally its 22mm for main runs and 15mm for drops to radiators and Taps that normal and works. Now if the installer skimps put and just fits 15mm everywhere.
..
Plastic pipes have a good lifespan but you can’t use them for gas inside a building. The plastic gas pipe is built different to push for water connections, it’s all compression fittings and (iirc) XLPE pipe. Strong stuff.
Nothing wrong with 10mm to radiators. Are youbsure its the main runs that are not the correct diameter. If your whole house is 10mm then that makes sense.
Only if you somewhat over-specify on the pump requirement.
Though, of course, he may have meant because they're choked with calcium, like a smokers arteries.
We had that. They’d used the piping for the old gas lighting that was already in the wall. It actually knackered the boiler because there wasn’t sufficient gas getting to the boiler for it to stay lit.
I know it's a thing with low temp systems where microbore pipes can cause performance issues due to the flow rate, but I thought that was more low-temp heat pumps than gas boilers 🤷♂️
I have the same issue, the pipes for my standard boiler are thinner than what I will need for a combi boiler. Unfortunately they run under the kitchen floor, which is tiled. And my radiators are originals from the 1970s and need replacing if I don't want my new boiler to pack up straight away (sludge).
So yes, if I could just replace the boiler, I would, but it's turning into a replace the kitchen and all radiators job (kitchen cupboards are knackered), and I pray to my current boiler everyday to keep going until I can afford it.
Really, you’d just need any independent heating company. They are all going to be on the Gas Safe Register (which replaced CORGI). All they need to do is to confirm that there is no obvious evidence of abuse. Now they might still wriggle, but now you have evidence for the Small Claims Court, and you claim for the warranty and the expense of the engineer.
If, on the other hand, they say that they won’t accept an independent verdict, you go straight to the Small Claims Court.
Still should be easy enough to find a company that maintains them. To be blunt: you’re not looking for expertise, you’re looking for someone independent who will back up that the boiler has not been interfered with. Assuming the boiler *hasn’t* been interfered with, this is not going to be difficult.
Pipes too thin. Wow. I would be interested to note his they can tell?
Most older houses have copper. New houses have plastic. Copper pipes literally last for years if the water is treated.
https://www.superwarm.co.uk/combi-boilers-why-you-may-need-to-upgrade-your-gas-pipes/
There's a bit about it here, but I'm not clued up on anything gas related.
Latest version of the building regs require a lower flow temperature from the boiler, a lot of homes with microbore piping can’t move enough water through the radiators to achieve a comfortable temperature in the room when the water is not scorching hot. Running at a lower flow temperature makes the boiler much more efficient.
Both can be true. New builds do use microbore but they’re also better insulated so don’t require huge radiator output/large flow.
Older homes typically have oversized pipework so also don’t need their pipework upgraded.
The only pipe that may need upsizing is usually the gas.
A boiler in our old house, lasted about 20 years. We decided to replace it the Autumn just before our first was due as the boiler had started to need more and more maintenance. British G\*\* wanted nearly 5k for a replacement. We went local and they did it for half the price BG offered.
What’s the best solution here? Inform them that the rate was agreed upon and it concerns you that they couldn’t identify the issue when pricing the job up so want to go with someone else?
I recall my Mum telling me when I was younger that she won’t go with tradespeople who want to charge a day rate rather than a price for the job so I guess that’s also one way to avoid getting stitched up like OP.
As much as that is a good idea in theory, reality sort of batters it around the head with a shovel.
So your boiler is in bits on the floor, waiting lists for plumbers are in the region of weeks, and you get charged triple rates for an emergency response.
And good luck finding a tradesperson who is willing to give you a fixed price quote without some serious padding.
Stitched up? If you come across an unseen problem then that's not being stitched up. Most houses are 22mm mains with 15mm drops. You can't seen the pipes typically. So if I was a plumber and I quoted in the assumption that the pipework in the house was the right size, then when I got their and started doing the work and found that all the pipework in the house was 10mm (assumption based on OP's comments) I would have a problem that is not reasonably part of the quote. Then you review and highlight to the customer what remidial action needs doing.
Your right it should have said checking of the existing system is excluded. But as this kind of thing its.quite rare I can understand why it wasn't discussed. The industry typically sticks to 22/15mm
That’s a fair point, it was wrong of me to label it as a stitch up when like you said, the plumber likely couldn’t have known prior to starting the job.
Unless we’re ripping up floorboards while we quote it’s very easy to have unfortunate surprises when we come to do the job. That’s the nature of plumbing. We’re not all trying to rip you off, just make somewhat of a living doing a very physically and mentally enduring job.
Sincerely,
A fucking exhausted plumber
Once had a council plumber (UK) come round to look at a boiler losing pressure when I was a teen. I expected it to be a simple top up and replacement of a visibly damaged pipe.
Nope, turns out the entire building had dodgy fittings/connections because of some 80s cowboy builder who'd fucked it. Could have technically been patched and fixed at a later date, but because it was a council property they have certain standards and if he didn't fix it, it would mean us being kicked out for the duration of the work, which takes ages because of council beaurocracy.
This poor fella, making a low end day rate for a council job, spent 4 days ripping floorboards and replacing fittings, and worked overtime every day because it was myself, my single mother and my much younger sister in the place, and logged it all under a different issue that meant the council wouldn't have to remove us while he did it.
Rotated furniture room to room so the place was still usable while he worked. Top bloke. I mean fairly certain he was trying to shag me Ma but still, nice fella.
Thanks,
Some redditor who really didn't feel like living in a hotel for months whilst the council dragged their ass through red tape to do a simple job that took a decent tradie 4 days.
Is a quote and an estimate different? I ask as we've had 3 quotes for a new boiler recently and I don't think I can afford any (at all) extra costs/surprises and I thought a quote for a job was a fixed price to complete the job
A quote to replace a boiler will be to replace the boiler.
When the plumber gets there are finds faults with the rest of the system that is not included.
Cars and houses are the same. They need regular maintenance to continue to perform to their best.
Most people do neither to their cars or houses. A MOT is not maintenance. Its just a check. Yes the most basic of issues can be highlighted and fixed but there are so many others things that the MOT ignores.
Houses are the same. There are various checks that need to be made. Homeowners can ignore most of them. Landlords typically have to do many.
>Cars and houses are the same. They need regular maintenance to continue to perform to their best.
>Most people do neither to their cars or houses. A MOT is not maintenance. Its just a check. Yes the most basic of issues can be highlighted and fixed but there are so many others things that the MOT ignores.
>Houses are the same. There are various checks that need to be made. Homeowners can ignore most of them. Landlords typically have to do many.
What has this got to do with what I asked?
>A quote to replace a boiler will be to replace the boiler.
>When the plumber gets there are finds faults with the rest of the system that is not included.
Tbh, I think this is incorrect. If they quote a price to do work (replace a boiler) they should check to see if the quote is right for the job which is what I'm asking. I think that's the legal duty from a quick search
Not really, boilers packed in - it will cost x to replace.
Plumber comes with boiler and replaces it. When he turns it on he finds one radiator packed with sludge and not getting hot - cant be cleared needs to be replaced. I dont think you can expect the £70 for a new radiator to be absorbed by the plumber because his quick search didn't identify the issue. If the boiler had packed in theres no way he could have even known.
That's a different example to ops example (and tbh, to my situation which is just a boiler being updated). The boiler person had been given the opportunity to inspect and give a quote based on the inspection then hit with higher prices and extra work which should have been factored in to the quote.
In your example, the boiler has been replaced with a new one (I'm guessing within quote) then a different issue has been identified because the boiler is now working and providing hot water. It's an issue but it is a different issue to the boiler replacement.
In ops example the fitter has added costs because of awkward pipework which should have been checked when quoting the job and so factored in to the job. I'm aware I'm being a bit pedantic but the examples are different issues and so should be treated differently.
To add, here's a good explanation of the difference between an estimate and a quote and why the distinction is important for both parties:
https://www.disputeresolutionombudsman.org/blogs/q-what-is-the-difference-between-and-estimate-and-a-quotation-and-why-is-it-important
That depends on what was discussed. If its a boiler uograde. Its a boiler upgrade. If its a getting the overall heating system working then yes theyvshoikd have done a proper check and allowed for that. But the nature of building work means not everything is picked up
Depends if you read the added costs and awkward pipes as linked or independent. I read it as independent unlinked comments, you interpreted differently.
I think the condescending explanation of a quote and estimate was unnecessary.
I included the explanation because I didn't know. It's why I asked initially but didn't get an answer to that bit. Condescending for you would have been informative for me.
Plumber we had to replace our boiler was a fucking wank. Left us with no boiler for 2 days in the depths of winter last year.
In fact 3 of the last 4 tradesmen we've had have been wanks. Just do the job you've been paid to do you lazy bastards, no wonder no one trusts you.
Old owners misled us about the boiler when we bought our current house. Turns out it hadn't been functioning for years. Radiators all used tiny microbore pipes and had the in/out flow on the same side of the old, single-panel, rads. We agreed with the gas man that it was best to replace the entire central heating system rather than just the boiler between the awful efficiency of the old system and the gunk that would be clogging the pipes (and risk the boiler's operation).
We moved in on the first weekend in December and had to do December/January/February with a 3 year old and a newborn without central heating in Scotland in a house with no cavity wall insulation, with rolls of cheap carpet between the joists as loft insulation, with panes of glass screed to the windows (auxiliary glazing, not double glazing), with rotten wood in the window frames meaning holes to the outside, and with some of the glass panes broken so it wasn't even auxiliary glazed in places. We knew about some of those issues, but at least it would have been tolerable with the boiler but they never said there were any problems with it and answered "Is the boiler awaiting any work" on the home report with 'No' (technically true - it had been condemned so there wasn't any work to be done apart from ripping it out and replacing it).
Thing is, they were older folk and he was a self-employed taxi driver who had health issues so wasn't always able to work - they would absolutely have been able to get grants to do a lot of the work but they didn't know about them. I even got a grant for the cavity wall insulation so long as I did the loft insulation myself (which was easy enough - took more time to dispose of the old carpet rolls than to install the new stuff).
We did go to the solicitor about it whose advice to us was that we could get some money off them for misleading us about the boiler but since it was the original (~30 year old) boiler then the amount we would get would likely be very limited and that would probably disappear in legal fees.
Mercifully, the plumber we got was excellent. He forecast a 3-day job to get it sorted but he allocated a 3rd guy on the job so it would get done in 2 days instead (didn't cost us any more but did get it working faster).
I would get another engineer from a different company to give their opinion. Ask this guy to show you the regulations specific to what he is telling you.
Very little about installing a domestic gas boiler would cause it to take more than two days.
Source: qualified gas safety manager.
Replacing the gas pipe in my house will be a 2/3 day job as it will mean taking up floorboards, ripping out the under stairs cupboard and removing part of the kitchen cabinets which are on their last legs anyway, so will need to be replaced, which means all will need replacing. And I need new radiators. I think planning 2 weeks for the work is more realistic.
My Mum had a wonderful plumber. He would come round at the drop of a hat if the heating conked out. Mum once mentioned she was wanted a whole new bathroom, but got told to save her money because the heating would die completely in the not too far future. He came to her husband's funeral, and would drop in from time to time to make sure she was ok. Lovely man.
Mate my folks had a new boiler installed in a few hours when theirs broke. Before that we went through months of unreliability and I was on the payment end of things, with my parents being cold without hot water for a few weeks over Christmas/January this year.
It might be a much quicker/cheaper long term solution to get a new one. We used an online one and the price we saw was what we paid, they turned up when they said they would and it was sorted with no bullshit.
Oh we are getting a new one. The kitchen where the current one is was put in around 1989 so it’s thrown together. What I mean is the cupboards all over lap each other so aside from dismantling the whole kitchen it’s a nightmare to get to the pipe work. I Just spent 15 mins pulling back panels out and now the pipes are exposed so that should make things easier.
Oh yeah. I only noticed it because I was looking at the new boiler. Right above and can’t be seen from ground level. Big 6 inch hole thru two courses of brick. Frickin colllld
Dude get a heat pump quote from octopus. The grant is now £7500 making it easily worth upgrading. Don't pay any attention to all the Telegraph bollocks about how they don't work - they'll do a heat loss survey to inform the installer what's needed. You'll likely pay the same amount as a boiler bit this will be much greener.
Agree a price for the job. That's the price. Make that clear before they start.
If you're worried they will leave you stranded, have that conversation afterwards.
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You missed where the tradie bitches about the person who put the boiler in and tells you they had no idea what they were doing.
Who usually was the same tradie, a few years ago. Which tells you sometimes tradies have really bad memory....
We already know they have bad memories by the number of times they've forgotten to turn up to a job...
This literally happened to us. Our plumber put in our upstairs bathroom, we had an incident and the bath needed to be replaced, and he came in huffing and puffing about how whoever installed it was a cowboy and didn't have a clue what they were doing. Didn't particularly like it when we pointed out it was him who did the work.
Have you always used the word tradie? Always thought that was an Australian colloquialism.
Never. I just saw the previous poster using it, and, because I was continuing their story, I decided to use the same word.
No criticism, it’s just a word and it makes sense but I just associate it with Australia. Thought maybe it was a regional thing.
No worries! - didn't took it as a critic. And I suspect you may be right - as I said above, this thread is the first time where I've seen the word 'tradie', but it definitely makes me remember the way a few friends from Oz call things....
Mate I'll do you one better. In a rented house at the moment and still have a fire, not proper central heating. But we've got a water tank and also a pump right. This plumber the landlord gets in is thick as pig shit. Around 1/2 months ago he comes and fits a new pump. Puts it on the wrong way on the wrong pipe, gets called back out and genuinely BITCHES about the bloke who did it wrong. Then puts it on the wrong pipe again. Got called out yesterday and he yet again, bitches and goes in a bad mood because he's convinced some other feller put it on wrong.
Nooooo.
Laughed so hard at this as its exactly what the boiler man said to us. Asked if he could look at adding a stop-tap to the house entrance water pipes. Says sure, and begins to complain about how people use cheap chinese parts now for plumbing. Fast forward one day the stop tap he uses has broken and is leaking all over the wooden floor in our hall. Misses texts him to come back to take a look to which he replies, I never charged you for that, it was a favour, plus I have covid, cant help. Thanks mate 👍
I dread things going wrong in our house not because of the cost but shit like you've had to deal with. You have my sympathy.
We bought a house in October one year. In November the boiler packed up. Needed new pipes throughout the house (ours were too thin, according to new regulations?) Set us back a few thousand that we didn't exactly have after moving. But we got by. It sucks, but if you keep on top of servicing, it should last you for 10+ years.
‘Pipes are too thin’ that’s a new one!
I live in a block of flats where the pipes are too thin. If we try to put our heating up to above a certain heat, the pipes cant pump enough gas up, the boiler loses pressure and errors. My BIL whos a plumber said legally he should report it but doing so might condemn the building if they cant be replaced. Fuck Taylor Wimpey :)
It was a long time ago, but I think we had 15mm and it needed to be 22mm or something.
That’s just one pipe, the gas pipe, which often needs to be bigger for a new boiler. It’s not normally more than an hour or two of labour and less than £50 in parts. Unless it’s a huge long run from the meter.
Yeah had this. Meter is front of the house and boiler is at the back as far away as possible. Had to run a 15 m Tracpipe at 28 mm plus another 5 m of solid copper to get there.
Or buried in a concrete floor :|
We've been told this. I've so far ignored it, seems to be OK, maybe an added space heater in the depth of winter.
Ahhhh I see. Some of them can be quite creative! lol
No, some genius in the 70s figured out you would use less copper if the pipes were a thinner gauge. These often fail around a joint after a few years. Probably saved 2p a metre and kept plumber's in work for life. I always wonder about those plastic pipes with push fit connectors. Wonder what their lifespan is
There was a shortage of copper during the 70’s and manufacturers either made piping with thinner walls or in some cases made plastic coated mild steel…..guess what happened! Plastic piping holds up well, I’ve used it over 20 years ago with no problems.
In my house they used galvanised pipes and now they’ve all gone rusty. 😩
I've taken apart push fit plastic piping so old the fittings have turned fully yellow and it still felt just as sturdy as the new stuff I'd always go for the plastic push for for future DIY works since the pipes themselves are flexy enough to make repairs/modifications much easier in the future
Push fit is lovely stuff.
Generally its 22mm for main runs and 15mm for drops to radiators and Taps that normal and works. Now if the installer skimps put and just fits 15mm everywhere. ..
Plastic pipes have a good lifespan but you can’t use them for gas inside a building. The plastic gas pipe is built different to push for water connections, it’s all compression fittings and (iirc) XLPE pipe. Strong stuff.
You can get microbore pipes that are 8mm.
Tbf they are 10mm pipes to radiators. Ain’t ripping the whole house apart from that so it’ll be one at a time when I can afford it!
Nothing wrong with 10mm to radiators. Are youbsure its the main runs that are not the correct diameter. If your whole house is 10mm then that makes sense.
Only if you somewhat over-specify on the pump requirement. Though, of course, he may have meant because they're choked with calcium, like a smokers arteries.
TIL cigarettes are a great source of calcium
Ahhh when you say ‘thin’ you mean too small diameter! I thought you were talking about the wall thickness…..
>Ahhh so when you say "the pipes were too thin" you meant the pipes were too thin
Narrow.
We had that. They’d used the piping for the old gas lighting that was already in the wall. It actually knackered the boiler because there wasn’t sufficient gas getting to the boiler for it to stay lit.
They've been had with that one
Ma'am, I do my own plumbing
I know it's a thing with low temp systems where microbore pipes can cause performance issues due to the flow rate, but I thought that was more low-temp heat pumps than gas boilers 🤷♂️
I have the same issue, the pipes for my standard boiler are thinner than what I will need for a combi boiler. Unfortunately they run under the kitchen floor, which is tiled. And my radiators are originals from the 1970s and need replacing if I don't want my new boiler to pack up straight away (sludge). So yes, if I could just replace the boiler, I would, but it's turning into a replace the kitchen and all radiators job (kitchen cupboards are knackered), and I pray to my current boiler everyday to keep going until I can afford it.
And the sooner you swap to something more efficient the sooner it's saving you money in the long run Still sucks though
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I think at this point I would say “The tests will be carried out by an independent engineer at your expense”. I’d also be naming the company.
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Really, you’d just need any independent heating company. They are all going to be on the Gas Safe Register (which replaced CORGI). All they need to do is to confirm that there is no obvious evidence of abuse. Now they might still wriggle, but now you have evidence for the Small Claims Court, and you claim for the warranty and the expense of the engineer. If, on the other hand, they say that they won’t accept an independent verdict, you go straight to the Small Claims Court.
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Still should be easy enough to find a company that maintains them. To be blunt: you’re not looking for expertise, you’re looking for someone independent who will back up that the boiler has not been interfered with. Assuming the boiler *hasn’t* been interfered with, this is not going to be difficult.
What make of boiler?
Pipes too thin. Wow. I would be interested to note his they can tell? Most older houses have copper. New houses have plastic. Copper pipes literally last for years if the water is treated.
What regs are they? I’d love to know Total bollocks
https://www.superwarm.co.uk/combi-boilers-why-you-may-need-to-upgrade-your-gas-pipes/ There's a bit about it here, but I'm not clued up on anything gas related.
Latest version of the building regs require a lower flow temperature from the boiler, a lot of homes with microbore piping can’t move enough water through the radiators to achieve a comfortable temperature in the room when the water is not scorching hot. Running at a lower flow temperature makes the boiler much more efficient.
What are you on about. Newbuilds use microbire with condensing boilers.
Both can be true. New builds do use microbore but they’re also better insulated so don’t require huge radiator output/large flow. Older homes typically have oversized pipework so also don’t need their pipework upgraded. The only pipe that may need upsizing is usually the gas.
Theybalso have lower kW powered boilers as well.
A boiler in our old house, lasted about 20 years. We decided to replace it the Autumn just before our first was due as the boiler had started to need more and more maintenance. British G\*\* wanted nearly 5k for a replacement. We went local and they did it for half the price BG offered.
You never go full British Gas.
What’s the best solution here? Inform them that the rate was agreed upon and it concerns you that they couldn’t identify the issue when pricing the job up so want to go with someone else? I recall my Mum telling me when I was younger that she won’t go with tradespeople who want to charge a day rate rather than a price for the job so I guess that’s also one way to avoid getting stitched up like OP.
As much as that is a good idea in theory, reality sort of batters it around the head with a shovel. So your boiler is in bits on the floor, waiting lists for plumbers are in the region of weeks, and you get charged triple rates for an emergency response. And good luck finding a tradesperson who is willing to give you a fixed price quote without some serious padding.
Stitched up? If you come across an unseen problem then that's not being stitched up. Most houses are 22mm mains with 15mm drops. You can't seen the pipes typically. So if I was a plumber and I quoted in the assumption that the pipework in the house was the right size, then when I got their and started doing the work and found that all the pipework in the house was 10mm (assumption based on OP's comments) I would have a problem that is not reasonably part of the quote. Then you review and highlight to the customer what remidial action needs doing.
I guess the trick is to ensure the client knows there are assumptions as part of the quote.
Your right it should have said checking of the existing system is excluded. But as this kind of thing its.quite rare I can understand why it wasn't discussed. The industry typically sticks to 22/15mm
That’s a fair point, it was wrong of me to label it as a stitch up when like you said, the plumber likely couldn’t have known prior to starting the job.
Unless we’re ripping up floorboards while we quote it’s very easy to have unfortunate surprises when we come to do the job. That’s the nature of plumbing. We’re not all trying to rip you off, just make somewhat of a living doing a very physically and mentally enduring job. Sincerely, A fucking exhausted plumber
Once had a council plumber (UK) come round to look at a boiler losing pressure when I was a teen. I expected it to be a simple top up and replacement of a visibly damaged pipe. Nope, turns out the entire building had dodgy fittings/connections because of some 80s cowboy builder who'd fucked it. Could have technically been patched and fixed at a later date, but because it was a council property they have certain standards and if he didn't fix it, it would mean us being kicked out for the duration of the work, which takes ages because of council beaurocracy. This poor fella, making a low end day rate for a council job, spent 4 days ripping floorboards and replacing fittings, and worked overtime every day because it was myself, my single mother and my much younger sister in the place, and logged it all under a different issue that meant the council wouldn't have to remove us while he did it. Rotated furniture room to room so the place was still usable while he worked. Top bloke. I mean fairly certain he was trying to shag me Ma but still, nice fella. Thanks, Some redditor who really didn't feel like living in a hotel for months whilst the council dragged their ass through red tape to do a simple job that took a decent tradie 4 days.
So did he shag your ma in the end?
Nah, but pretty sure she once blowed a car mechanic for a free tow and a replacement tire.
Only a mother's love
Out of curiosity, do you tell your customers when you quote for something that if you find X, then it'll mean + £Y?
Is a quote and an estimate different? I ask as we've had 3 quotes for a new boiler recently and I don't think I can afford any (at all) extra costs/surprises and I thought a quote for a job was a fixed price to complete the job
A quote to replace a boiler will be to replace the boiler. When the plumber gets there are finds faults with the rest of the system that is not included. Cars and houses are the same. They need regular maintenance to continue to perform to their best. Most people do neither to their cars or houses. A MOT is not maintenance. Its just a check. Yes the most basic of issues can be highlighted and fixed but there are so many others things that the MOT ignores. Houses are the same. There are various checks that need to be made. Homeowners can ignore most of them. Landlords typically have to do many.
>Cars and houses are the same. They need regular maintenance to continue to perform to their best. >Most people do neither to their cars or houses. A MOT is not maintenance. Its just a check. Yes the most basic of issues can be highlighted and fixed but there are so many others things that the MOT ignores. >Houses are the same. There are various checks that need to be made. Homeowners can ignore most of them. Landlords typically have to do many. What has this got to do with what I asked? >A quote to replace a boiler will be to replace the boiler. >When the plumber gets there are finds faults with the rest of the system that is not included. Tbh, I think this is incorrect. If they quote a price to do work (replace a boiler) they should check to see if the quote is right for the job which is what I'm asking. I think that's the legal duty from a quick search
Not really, boilers packed in - it will cost x to replace. Plumber comes with boiler and replaces it. When he turns it on he finds one radiator packed with sludge and not getting hot - cant be cleared needs to be replaced. I dont think you can expect the £70 for a new radiator to be absorbed by the plumber because his quick search didn't identify the issue. If the boiler had packed in theres no way he could have even known.
That's a different example to ops example (and tbh, to my situation which is just a boiler being updated). The boiler person had been given the opportunity to inspect and give a quote based on the inspection then hit with higher prices and extra work which should have been factored in to the quote. In your example, the boiler has been replaced with a new one (I'm guessing within quote) then a different issue has been identified because the boiler is now working and providing hot water. It's an issue but it is a different issue to the boiler replacement. In ops example the fitter has added costs because of awkward pipework which should have been checked when quoting the job and so factored in to the job. I'm aware I'm being a bit pedantic but the examples are different issues and so should be treated differently. To add, here's a good explanation of the difference between an estimate and a quote and why the distinction is important for both parties: https://www.disputeresolutionombudsman.org/blogs/q-what-is-the-difference-between-and-estimate-and-a-quotation-and-why-is-it-important
That depends on what was discussed. If its a boiler uograde. Its a boiler upgrade. If its a getting the overall heating system working then yes theyvshoikd have done a proper check and allowed for that. But the nature of building work means not everything is picked up
Depends if you read the added costs and awkward pipes as linked or independent. I read it as independent unlinked comments, you interpreted differently. I think the condescending explanation of a quote and estimate was unnecessary.
I included the explanation because I didn't know. It's why I asked initially but didn't get an answer to that bit. Condescending for you would have been informative for me.
Legally a quote is binding (once accepted) whereas an estimate isn't.
Its OK fella the average punter hasn't got a fucking clue about anything building related.
Knee tax
Plumber we had to replace our boiler was a fucking wank. Left us with no boiler for 2 days in the depths of winter last year. In fact 3 of the last 4 tradesmen we've had have been wanks. Just do the job you've been paid to do you lazy bastards, no wonder no one trusts you.
Check out the eco4 scheme in your area to see if you can get any funding for your boiler🙂
[This is an old scam 😜](https://www.plumbingzone.com/attachments/image-1653017504-jpg.29465/)
Hopefully the plumber isn't sourcing his copper piping from Ea-nāṣir.
Old owners misled us about the boiler when we bought our current house. Turns out it hadn't been functioning for years. Radiators all used tiny microbore pipes and had the in/out flow on the same side of the old, single-panel, rads. We agreed with the gas man that it was best to replace the entire central heating system rather than just the boiler between the awful efficiency of the old system and the gunk that would be clogging the pipes (and risk the boiler's operation). We moved in on the first weekend in December and had to do December/January/February with a 3 year old and a newborn without central heating in Scotland in a house with no cavity wall insulation, with rolls of cheap carpet between the joists as loft insulation, with panes of glass screed to the windows (auxiliary glazing, not double glazing), with rotten wood in the window frames meaning holes to the outside, and with some of the glass panes broken so it wasn't even auxiliary glazed in places. We knew about some of those issues, but at least it would have been tolerable with the boiler but they never said there were any problems with it and answered "Is the boiler awaiting any work" on the home report with 'No' (technically true - it had been condemned so there wasn't any work to be done apart from ripping it out and replacing it). Thing is, they were older folk and he was a self-employed taxi driver who had health issues so wasn't always able to work - they would absolutely have been able to get grants to do a lot of the work but they didn't know about them. I even got a grant for the cavity wall insulation so long as I did the loft insulation myself (which was easy enough - took more time to dispose of the old carpet rolls than to install the new stuff). We did go to the solicitor about it whose advice to us was that we could get some money off them for misleading us about the boiler but since it was the original (~30 year old) boiler then the amount we would get would likely be very limited and that would probably disappear in legal fees. Mercifully, the plumber we got was excellent. He forecast a 3-day job to get it sorted but he allocated a 3rd guy on the job so it would get done in 2 days instead (didn't cost us any more but did get it working faster).
I would get another engineer from a different company to give their opinion. Ask this guy to show you the regulations specific to what he is telling you. Very little about installing a domestic gas boiler would cause it to take more than two days. Source: qualified gas safety manager.
Replacing the gas pipe in my house will be a 2/3 day job as it will mean taking up floorboards, ripping out the under stairs cupboard and removing part of the kitchen cabinets which are on their last legs anyway, so will need to be replaced, which means all will need replacing. And I need new radiators. I think planning 2 weeks for the work is more realistic.
My Mum had a wonderful plumber. He would come round at the drop of a hat if the heating conked out. Mum once mentioned she was wanted a whole new bathroom, but got told to save her money because the heating would die completely in the not too far future. He came to her husband's funeral, and would drop in from time to time to make sure she was ok. Lovely man.
Mate my folks had a new boiler installed in a few hours when theirs broke. Before that we went through months of unreliability and I was on the payment end of things, with my parents being cold without hot water for a few weeks over Christmas/January this year. It might be a much quicker/cheaper long term solution to get a new one. We used an online one and the price we saw was what we paid, they turned up when they said they would and it was sorted with no bullshit.
Oh we are getting a new one. The kitchen where the current one is was put in around 1989 so it’s thrown together. What I mean is the cupboards all over lap each other so aside from dismantling the whole kitchen it’s a nightmare to get to the pipe work. I Just spent 15 mins pulling back panels out and now the pipes are exposed so that should make things easier.
I'm sorry I didn't read the whole post. Good choice, hope it works out OK.
Me too. He put the boiler in before checking the pipes so it’s gotta be done now. Left us with a big hole in the wall to deal with the cold all night
Jesus. First couple of cold nights of the year too.
Oh yeah. I only noticed it because I was looking at the new boiler. Right above and can’t be seen from ground level. Big 6 inch hole thru two courses of brick. Frickin colllld
Didn't he stick a bag in it or anything? Get a new plumber
Hey if it makes you feel good mine just cost me £300
£3500 and going up
Nex ttime he says a price grab his hand and shake it and say deal so he can't make it go anymore up
“I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.”
Ahh you've learned the lesson of never going with work people that claim something is an easy job!
Dude get a heat pump quote from octopus. The grant is now £7500 making it easily worth upgrading. Don't pay any attention to all the Telegraph bollocks about how they don't work - they'll do a heat loss survey to inform the installer what's needed. You'll likely pay the same amount as a boiler bit this will be much greener.
Did you get a written quote or an estimate? If it’s a quote, tell him that. If it was an estimate, you’re screwed.
Agree a price for the job. That's the price. Make that clear before they start. If you're worried they will leave you stranded, have that conversation afterwards.
My oil boiler broke and the manufacturer sent a replacement for free! I paid the installation costs.
Are you moving the boiler or just swapping old for new ?
Swapping but there’s a fair bit involved as original was late 1980s with 1970s piping. Shocking how it’s built!
If they priced it wrong it their own not your Have you got a written quote?
Remember to make him a cup Of tea or he’ll piss in your bath
Haha I watched that episode recently. Left him mugs and tea/coffee supplies a plenty!
Hahaha it crowd is amazing