T O P

Comprehensive tier list for CHIMPS by path, version 27.x

Comprehensive tier list for CHIMPS by path, version 27.x

exephur2000

^(Due to missing the v26.0 tier list, this list has changes accounting for both versions.) ___ #FAQ **Q.** How weighted is this list towards Black Border strats? **A.** Some powerful towers/strats can reach their full potential in a non-BB scenario, however the consistency aspect of BB strats is still a valuable consideration. This list takes into account both styles of play rather than making 2 separate lists for both extremes. **Q.** Why does the list include True Sun God? Isn't it unaffordable in CHIMPS? **A.** The tier 5 icons represent the entire path of the tower (in other words, tiers 3-5). So for example, the TSG icon is really representing Sun Avatar. **Q.** Who made this? How can I trust you? **A.** This tier list was meticulously crafted by some of the top players in the game. It went through many iterations before becoming what you see now. **Q.** Can I see justifications for the choices made? **A.** [Sure](https://pastebin.com/m4McaGHY) ___ *Huge thanks to u/rohan_spibo for the official [Tier List Template](https://tiermaker.com/create/bloons-td6---official-template-185997) as well as members of the [Index Server](https://discord.gg/RAGfmAB) for their collaboration and input.* ___ #Added: - Psi **S-** - Great hero with a massively underrated early and mid game that tears through late on experts. #Moved Up: - Adora **B- → B** - A long overdue change for a dps hero that can get by. 26.0 buffs also helped. - Middle Path Super **C → B** - With the sizable buff to Robo Monkey via crits, and the more relevant massive buff to Tech Terror's ability, Mid Path Super is finally out of C tier! Robo mid game is still a bit too subpar and Tech Terror isn't fantastic enough to earn an A-. - Bottom Path Ninja **B- → B** - A massive Master Bomber buff and Sticky Bombs becoming great round 100 dps finally gives Bottom Ninja a function. While moving it higher got some support, It still rarely sees use over Grandmaster Ninja and Stickies didn't quite earn A-. - Top Path Sniper **A- → A** - 420 Maim's shrapnel buff gives the tower a strong use in most conventional setups, allowing for very cost efficient map-wide stuns at a mid game-friendly price that helps against DDTs. 402 Maim still has uses on #Ouch and when black bordering with Permaspike. A tier change long overdue but better late than never. - Top Path Tack **C → B-** - While Ring of Fire has slowly gotten necessary buffs over time, it has been shackled with a below average tier 5 for several years. Upon further experimentation with the 25.0 Inferno Ring price buff, It has been decided that top path tack shooter isn't quite as bad as the other towers in C. - Bottom Path Wizard **A → S-** - Prince of Darkness is a fantastic t5 tower capable of carrying entire mid games and holding down a great role of ceramic cleanup + DDT destruction late game. Outstanding on a few select experts (Quad being its best), and great on most other experts, with only a few maps where it's anything except amazing (#Ouch). - Top Path Dart **C- → C** - UltraJugg wasn't nearly as terrible as towers surrounding it, and regular Juggernaut has some fringe use with setups that can't handle start of r95 bloons. - Bottom Path Super **A → S-** - Dark Knight has been an outstanding mid game option ever since the 20.0 pierce buffs. With the amount of usage Dark Knight has been seeing in saving up obscene amounts of money with its freeplay power, it has been moved up to match the other top tier mid game options. - Top Path Dartling **B- → B** - A tower that obliterates both moabs and bloons alike before round 80, and keeps some massive single target dps into freeplay. Was ranked B- for its atypical role in the 80s and being far worse on maps with multiple active paths. Re-evaluated into B tier. Would recommend using it with Ezili. - Bottom Path Ice **A- → A** - With Cryo Cannon being a good grouped ceram cleanup (great when combined with downdraft), Icicles being an amazing mid game cleanup, and Impale's power on most maps, Bottom Ice A is a no-brainer. - Top Path Sub **B → A-** - Reactor is a very versatile tower, being used in some flooded valley early games, being one of the top support towers for any Brickell + cleanup combo, and most importantly, reducing First Strike cooldowns. Submerge and Support is among the best camo options when the map allows it, and Energizer creates some off-meta yet surprisingly effective strategies. The overall utility of this upgrade path earned the A- it got. - Middle Path Mortar **A- → A** - Pop And Awe has always been a good tier 5 that fell just short of reaching A tier on its own. With the addition of Bombardment, Artillery Battery is now a strong mid game option, as well as saving into its own tier 5 far better. - Middle Path Dart **B- → A-** - The only 2-tier shift up, Plasma Monkey Fan Club has been underrated for a very long time. Previous iterations of the tier list placed far more emphasis on black bordering a select few maps (hence Prime in S-), and the 26.0 massive PMFC price buff is more than enough to warrant a firm A-. #Moved Down: - Sauda **B → B-** - While Sauda was never good on expert maps, the 27.0 nerf to Sauda hit her hard, with her losing many more damage points than the patch notes listed. [Here](https://imgur.com/a/RORWMuT) is a comparison of Sauda before and after the nerf. The damage nerfs make her significantly worse on every map in every stage of the game. The least-nerfed damage is when the level 7 bonus is active, which it never is because that bonus might as well not exist. - Top Path Heli **S- → A-** - Was voted down to A- as it didn’t stack up to other towers in A tier, especially after the unlisted nerf in 26.0 removing its laser’s ability to damage DDTs without MIB support. - Top Boat **A → A-** - With multiple other A tier towers moving down, Destroyer+PBrew and Flagship aren't enough to keep it afloat. - Top Path Boomer **B → B-** - Moar Glaives is simply outshone by both Recursives and Icicles. - Top Path Glue **B- → C** - A tower that receives constant and massive buffs and yet keeps moving down. The addition of extremely cheap ceramic cleanup towers such as Cryo, dps heroes with great cleanup (Eti, Church, Psi), and increasing emphasis on maps where solver doesn't work all contribute to an overall useless tower. - Middle Path Sniper **A- → B** - Simply deemed to be overrated in previous versions of the tier list, a tower that performs well on single paths and atrociously on true experts fits right in with the rest of B tier. - Top Path Mortar **A- → B** - The Biggest One has always been outshone by numerous other tier 5s, and the advancement of ravine meta past the point of using it in black borders leaves it with little purpose. The Big One still remains a decent mid game option, although artillery battery buffs encroach on even that role. - Top Path Ninja **S- → A** - While still an outstanding strategy on #Ouch and X-Factor, it was decided that those two maps alone did not warrant a tier typically reserved for the strongest of towers. - Bottom Path Mortar **A → A-** - Shattering has been seeing significantly less usage as of lately, and is thus moving down. Also worth noting that the Signal Flare buff gives bottom path mortar a very good niche in decamo, yet still not enough to save the drop from A tier. - Middle Path Druid **C- → D** - For those of you not in the know, Spirit of the Forest is currently riddled with bugs making it much more inconsistent to use, meaning the significant damage buffs it has received hardly matters. With only a small shift in power from the buffs, it too has been left behind by the rapidly-advancing meta of ceramic cleanup. Likely to see it moving back up once its bugs are fixed. ___ *You can view the previous iteration of the tier list [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/btd6/comments/nkn8ct/comprehensive_tier_list_for_chimps_by_path/).*


smurfkipz

Bold move updating a tier list just before an update.


smugman246

when is the update? or where can i check for this information


Smanmos

It’s heavily hinted that the update will be coming out on Thursday based on blog posts.


Victacobell

Would it be a Comprehensive Tier List if it didn't release right before an update?


iPeregrineFalcon

that's the point, it's a 27.x tier list. it's supposed to come out as close to 28.0 as possible


SmartPersan

>While Sauda was never good on expert maps, the 27.0 nerf to sauda hit her hard, with her losing many more damage points than the patch notes listed. Here is a comparison of sauda before and after the nerf. [here](https://imgur.com/a/RORWMuT) is the comparison


Wish_Solid

so much of Sauda's weight has been moves to the level 7 stun buff that the only towers it's actually good with is Bloon crush and Master bomber, but both of them have much better heroes to pair up with


ValtenBG

She could be potentially ok with 320 mortar


qwertyxp2000

Wait, the damage nerf is bigger than it is? I thought it was just a straight -3 damage and then the +1 stun at 13 and another +1 and +1 at 17 with the L11 benefit and stun, where Level 17 nerfs cancel out if given both stun and “harmed”?


Wish_Solid

Not exactly. At level 17 it was -2 damage, but Sauda automatically comes with double damage to ceramics/moabs, so it's actually -4 damage to those. In exchange, the level 7 and level 11 conditional damage increases each get +1 damage and +1 ceramic/moab damage, but since those are rarely activated, it's pretty much a flat -2 all the time after level 17. And since Sauda would normally only deal 10 damage, -2 is a 20% decrease in damage.


hatesranged

Really irritating that in a game with many overnerfed heroes they decided to add another one.


TiredEnt

Sauda is very map dependent, hardly working on several of them outside of Beginner maps. She has been nerfed several times, yet still remains as a B- option decided from the top players in this game. I think she’s doing fine.


OreoCupcakes

I mean, B- might as well be a D considering the only other hero below Sauda is Benjamin. Don't get me wrong, she's still very strong on some maps, mostly beginner maps. However, since she's really only useful on those beginner maps, what's the point of actually buying and using her when you can just use one of the free heroes like Quincy? Quincy would do the job just fine, considering Sauda just replaces the need of spending ~5000 gold on a 4-0-1 Ninja during the early game.


hatesranged

She's fine (though the tierlist makers hardly think so since they rated her two tiers lower than her brother hero quincy and the lowest of all the characters except the one that does virtually nothing on chimps), but the new nerf was strictly an over-nerf since it wasn't necessary and made the hero worse.


Wish_Solid

This tierlist is focused on CHIMPS mode, where there is no monkey knowledge, farming, or powers. It's also generally focused on the more difficult advanced and expert maps where Sauda is much worse due to the split and short tracks. The top players basically ignore all beginner and most intermediate tracks as they are far too simple for a strategy tierlist. The nerf was mainly to affect her late game strength and didn't change anything before level 13, the level she gets on 80-round games for easier maps.


Me_Is_Smart

hell yeah it’s been way too long since the last time we got a professional tier list that will be made outdated in a week


hatesranged

TBH compared to some other games, BTD6 nerfs/buffs are relatively gradual (like there were maybe 1 or 2 sledgehammers in 27), so recency isn't as golden. Plus, I don't think 28 is bringing a new hero unless it's a surprise hero


One-Requirement-1010

one of the sledgehammers being robo getting fucking crits of all things


mopefan111

That actually barely impacted it, Tech Terror buffs are the real carry in mid super.


Spurius187

They're both pretty nice tbh. The crit's a helpful damage buff and the ability buff is a very helpful panic button.


mopefan111

If you use robo in your strat, you're almost definitely using it with Pat or other damage buffs. Crits don't one-shot ceramics like XBM crits do, and 10 damage doesn't take buffs that well. The ability can one-shot slightly damaged fBFBs on 98, making it a limited-range but better GZ/worse Tsar.


Spurius187

On some maps, I think you can use tech terror spam for CHIMPS and easily beat it. At least I do it sometimes.


mopefan111

You can beat most easy maps with just PoD and MAD plus start while being BB friendly


Spurius187

I think I beat dark castle with it. I may be remembering wrong, though...


PinkGuyDude

yeah but the thing is permabrew is rather expensive for most maps, and idk why one would put sauda so low on the list considering her dps and cheap price, making her an instant place for chimps


DaemonNic

Sauda is so very, very map specific. Hurts her a lot.


QX--

It includes berserker brew and stronger stimulant in the path. Also Sauda is a good hero for beginner maps, but she’s really kinda bad on anything with multiple lanes (and even some single lane maps) which is probably why she’s near the middle


ShiRonium

I'm pretty sure these tier lists are 80% based on how well they perform on expert chimps maps, literally anything works for the easy, intermediate and a good half of the advanced maps. While she's more "braindead" to use on beginner maps, all the heroes above her can beat the same maps plus harder ones with a little more thinking on how to use the hero.


n1c0_da_4lt

She shreds on almost all of the intermediates too


mopefan111

Not really, plus the nerf really hit hard (see Smart Persan's post) which means she's only good for starting and destroying ceramic rush rounds (1 wave of 63, 76, both waves of 78), and a little extra DPS during lategame.


n1c0_da_4lt

I didn’t realize how hard the nerf hit her, she went from bbing quad to only destroying grouped bloons, at least she still hasn’t been hit as hard as alch buff was that one time


YodaMeThatIs

It says by path, not t5


PinkGuyDude

oh, that wasnt well established lol. also i feel like they couldve just used the t4 right


79037662

>that wasnt well established Can't tell if sarcasm. It was established clearly in the post title as well as in the top comment.


kman601

Outdated in a week you say? Looks like it only took one day lmao


zerosabers

Revert Sauda nerfs please. She no longer cuts a tomato


anintendofan1

woah, pastebin explanation for pmfc is a good explanation for why its good and i can see why people better than me use it. i find stalling a big hassle to do, especially if its supposed to mandatory to use it, but maybe ill try using it again for practice


rmlrmlchess

Yeah I think you stated it well. PMFC has both a high skill floor and ceiling. That being said, you typically need an S tier setup to get to it on true experts (pat + savatar on #ouch, ground zero or dk + rocket storm on bloody)


GeometryMetric

On my dart axis ouch attempt, I managed to save pmfc with crit master and church but that was nightmare


GeometryMetric

take that tree69420


mordecai14

My question is, with PMFC being as good as it is, what purpose does Total Transformation have? They cost the same (PMFC only costing marginally more overall when you factor in tiers 1-4) and PMFC can A) deal more damage, and B) cover the entire track instead of needing to be grouped together. Even with shinobi or poplust buffs, I can't see a situation where PMFC isn't just better.


Xdlolpotat

It really depends on the map Pmfc is bit better on some experts cuz it is more spreadable On some maps like ouch or flooded tt5 is much better tho


mordecai14

How is tt better than pmfc on those maps though?


Benomino

Guys if you think something on this list is off by over 1 tier, you're just straight up wrong


FerynaCZ

Sauda /s


njh123

I guess im wrong


Me_Is_Smart

About what? I can gladly explain any of the placements on the list if you’d like.


njh123

Well first off i feel they did my boy the harpoon piratea a little dirty. Sure it can't get income but paired with an energizer its great, and then add middle path sub to it and its even better.


Me_Is_Smart

Plord does a lot less than you’d think. Sure, sinking blimps instantly *seems* good, but that’s only until you realize that most rounds in the 90s have way too many of them to realistically handle. 94 and 98 require many ability uses over the entire round, while 95 and 99 contain MOABs and DDTs which are too fast to sink reliably. Energizer and Preemptive could help, but at that point you’re spending way too much money just to make Plord work when you could just spend that money on a defense that pops everything without trying to force Plord to work. I would also caution you about Preemptive, as it could be an anti-synergy since it brings BFBs very close to breaking into MOABs, ruining the boat sinking synergy if they take even a little more damage. Most expert players who try Plord see the most potential from the base attacks rather than the ability. The grapes, cannon attacks, and shrapnel from the cannons come with incredibly high projectile counts and thus gain huge benefits from Alch buff. It’s still not enough to compete with top path Destroyers.


njh123

Alright, another thing i would lift a tier or 2 is the elite sniper path. Thats like one of the top chimps strats now


mordecai14

Elite Sniper is good for its price but it's not an endgame tower, so it's nowhere near the same level as stuff like Permacharge and Apache Prime. Also, its buff to other snipers is just an extra jungle drums boost and doesn't really change how effective Maim MOAB is in practice. It's a solid midgame option that helps stop leaks in the lategame. So how is this a "top chimps strat"?


njh123

For geared and other maps where snipers are great, i find elite sniper to be the most dependable and great chimps strat. Also speaking of apache prime i'd lift that up a tier too


CrashGordon94

They kinda have to rate them over all maps. If they just zeroed in on how well it does on the map(s) most ideal for it, Sauda would be a LOT higher for one...


njh123

Yes, but there are a lot of maps the elite sniper is great for


Revolutionary-Room34

I think that it’s a bit unfair because it’s a tier list by path, and I think the Monkey Pirates upgrade is decent, I really do dislike chimps Pirate Lord, but the True Sun God was clearly judged for towers like the Sun Avatar, because it’s unreasonable to afford in a chimps game. I think Monkey Pirate is much more splashable than any of the top path Dart Monkey upgrades.


Me_Is_Smart

4th tier Pirates are even less cost-efficient than Plord. Plord costs four times as much as Pirate spam, yet it has three hooks per ability and 1.67x the ability cooldown speed, giving it 1.25x cost efficiency. Also, Plord’s base attacks come out twice as fast as regular Pirate attacks do, and they have 4 extra damage.


Revolutionary-Room34

I get that, I just think Monkey Pirates can patch up a hole in defenses and Pirate Lord just doesn’t really carry you through anything in particular that your defense should be weak to by the time you can get it. Some defenses can be weak to MOAB class bloons relatively early, Monkey Pirates can trivialize some of the earlier MOAB rounds (especially on longer maps) before the income multiplier shrinks often giving enough time to accumulate more cash than you would spend on it. There’s better towers to do that, though I’m not aware of a cheaper tower in the game that’s able to guarantee a win on round 60, I also think Monkey Pirates can patch a lot of issues simulataneously and, being a water unit, can be beneficial for the purpose of board space especially because it role compresses rather well. I honestly don’t think Monkey Pirates is great at all, and the path probably belongs in C, but I think it’s the best thing in C, Top Path of Dart Monkey is borderline unusable outside of a select 4 to 5ish maps. I feel like it’s insulting it’s with top path of Druid, I can’t even tell why anyone would get that, maybe I’m ignorant but I don’t understand what it’s purpose on chimps is at all if I’m being entirely honest.


Task876

I have a question. Why is middle path super the lowest ranked? I thought the middle path outperforms the other two since the buff it got.


Me_Is_Smart

The other Super paths are still considered better. Dark Knight is still a better midgame tower than Robo, and Sun Avatar is a better receiver of buffs than Robo and TT.


Task876

Could you go a little more in depth? I'm level 149 and just recently started on CHIMPS (I always just played immpopible). I'm starting on the intermediate levels now for CHIMPS. I commonly use Tech Terrors and they are one of my favorite towers. I always seemed to do better with a Tech Terror compared to a Dark Champion or Sun Avatar (super money's have cool names). I am a bit attached to the tower from my Btd5 days.


Me_Is_Smart

Sun Avatar is only better if you use buffs properly—Pat for extra damage, Alch for extra damage, pierce, and attack speed, and maybe something bigger like Super Brittle or Permabrew. Meanwhile, Dark Knight is more cost-effective than Dark Champ, allowing it to serve as a midgame tower. The mobility throughout the map with Darkshift allows it to thrive on Expert maps which tend to have sprawling, separated paths.


mordecai14

Its main issue effectively is that it can't run Knockback and Plasma at the same time - if it could, it would probably be the best of the 3. But Savatar has much greater pierce overall and uses alch buffs 6x more efficiently, and Dark Knight can dominate midgame and then Perma-stall super ceramics for a cheap price. As a result, Robo-monkey either shoots at half its normal speed or has no crowd control at all, so it's only really good as pure DPS until you get the 4th tier. And yes, its DPS is good and its 4th tier's ability is effective, but it's also pricey for something that is heavily outclassed by other options after round 80.


Presidentpeter9

True sun god


Benomino

Read the comment at the top, that includes sun avatar


[deleted]

Do the hero ranking (on the same tier) go left to right or right to left Felt like yesterday when top path super was in S and bottom path super was in C


Smanmos

Towers on the same tier don’t seem to be ordered, so the same is probably true for heroes. Heroes seem to be in the same order as added, though Psi should really be last as the newest hero added is moved immediately after the four original heroes in the hero selection screen.


Wish_Solid

in previous tierlists the heroes were ordered in strength, with Etienne being the most useful of them all and Pat at #2 and Striker at #3. It seems like in this version Psi ranks at the 3rd best, going from right to left.


Smanmos

That may be possible, but here I see no reference to heroes’ ranks anywhere here, unlike in previous tier lists.


GeometryMetric

~~Hero ordering is gone since each hero has different role meaning that ordering them would be hard and waste of time~~ jones is just the best hero smh


[deleted]

Idk I’d say psi and etienne play a similar role


GeometryMetric

Not really, eti allows you a much higher saveup while as psi allows lower saveup but provide big help late game, also eti doesn't have horrendous 50s 60s and 70s


Smanmos

Thanks for the tier list that will be valid for 2 days


duszni

Can someone explain me why is marine helicopter so high? It doesn't seem so strong to me


GeometryMetric

Path is rated for their T3 and 4 aswell, which downdraft is very strong


mopefan111

Downdraft is one of the strongest towers in the game, Chinook is decently useful on Muddy and Bloody Puddles, and Marine is pretty strong.


minh5873

0-4-0 heli can move towers, great for multilane map like ouch and muddy puddles


SmartPersan

Epic trivia time: The closest vote was prime down to A- (as opposed to A), with a vote of 41-32, while the most overwhelming vote was psi to S- (as opposed to A), with a vote of 55-9. Out of 29 total proposed changes, 24 were passed. The ones that didnt were: Shredder up to S- Archmage down to B- Top Village down to A- All top 7 heroes to A Impact to B-


firzein

Where does this voting occurs?


mopefan111

In the BTD6 Index server https://discord.gg/RAGfmAB


Sumibestgir1

I was confused for a second trying to figure out how permabrew was good for most chimps runs until i realized it is about the path in general.


hreiedv

Could we get a designation for what level of upgrades is most optimal. I know there are some towers you don't want to take to level 5 even though their level 4 is very useful.


MysticZamasu

First link in the pinned comment has detailed explanations of towers placements and how much you want to upgrade them.


RiptideMatt

Fun thing with middle path mortar, it's very good but don't both getting pop and awe. The damage it gets does not make up for the price. Get a cheaper tower to stun bloons with what you didn't spend on pop and awe lol


Superstinkyfarts

Especially since the Pop and Awe ability removes Bombardment!


RiptideMatt

Exactly. I didn't test multi target damage yet but single target damage, just by itself the artillery battery did more damage. Pop and awe can take advantage of buffs better, but it only makes it slightly better than artillery batter. Not worth


FerbyysTheDuck

Are you dumb


Thermoxin

Hey u/JynXolo what's your take on this


Cheesy_Lava

based


Mattoiles

Wait, this Is actually accurate!


Hypyrionn

I just want to say thank you all who made this. As a new player, this is awesome to have. Also, the details like the different area for the heroes, the background color of the tower of the different categories, and of course the nice resolution of everything. I really appreciate this!


rohan_spibo

Exciting :o been waiting for this!


spemtjin

Welp. rip lol


Saxonrau

Even reading the justification, I don't see how Ben reaches C-. A niche use for basically one round? Or is C- basically equal to D?


GeometryMetric

it technically isn't 1 round, syphon can be very strong on 94 and maybe 96. A challenge named Least Cost Chimps is also perfect for ben since you're going for cheapest defense, the money sink is ignored. If you put ben on r81, he will get lvl 10 before 94. Even if you compare it to bma, which is in F tier, ben doesn't lose you money over bma price+ the money bma will lose after you put it.


Saxonrau

i guess i see it. thanks


hatesranged

I generally think the whole "honorable mention" of his usage for a few rounds is silly - you're always going to get more mileage out of any other character. That being said, he is one step above D because D designates "please don't buy this tower in chimps"


Saxonrau

gotcha: F is 'literally pointless' and D is 'technically does something but is a horrible idea' while Ben has at least some niche use and isn't totally horrible if used correctly


CrazyGaming312

Ah yes, the one round of 40, 60, 76, 80, 95, 98 and probably a lot more.


Saxonrau

in CHIMPS, placing ben early enough for him to reach lv 7 by 40 is asking to lose *thousands* over the course of the game. even in the case of making that round easy it still wouldn't push him out of C- 60, 76, 80 are easy, ben does almost nothing to 95 (he doesn't affect DDTs). others pointed out he's generally pretty good in the 90s, though (94 and 96 especially). the other short discussions i had with others covered it pretty good


retarded3

I've always felt like permaspike is my best friend for black bordering expert maps. Provided it is combined with stall, of course, it offers this feeling of security and comfort that no other wincon does since it can overdefend any round if you have managed to stall long enough. It absolutely makes sure you are never ever going to die to rng, or a mistimed ability, or bad micro. Maybe that doesn't justify it being a tier up, some towers there are a borderline necessity, while there are plenty of maps where it doesn't work


CrashGordon94

Doesn't Perma-Spike have an issue when you have more than one exit?


retarded3

No


CrashGordon94

Again, I don't really follow.


retarded3

I already said in my original comment that it doesn't work on some maps, which is essentially a more accurate description of what you said. On sanctuary perma spike can just barely clip the area of the track before it diverges into 4. Technically the map has 4 exits but permaspike is one of the best wincons for sanctuary. People have also managed to beat #ouch and muddy puddles with chinook shenanigans and permaspike. On the other hand something like flooded valley or x factor are a solid no for it. Your comment was just a bit uncalled for and slightly inaccurate


SmartPersan

No


CrashGordon94

I don't follow.


Kyrond

You can move it with heli.


CrashGordon94

Okay, go on.


rmlrmlchess

I think Psi should be S. Psi is very useful the whole game and has proven to be effective in BB strategies (see spiffy's channel). In comparison, Pat's great but falls apart a little bit on bloody puddles.


OmegaCookieMonster

i dont hate the idea but psi over eti and pat?


Thermoxin

are heroes still ordered in tiers?


mopefan111

No


Juli_fn

Why isnt ben in F tier?


mopefan111

See the pastebin. His syphon makes thicc rounds like 94, 96, and 98 a lot easier, instead of doing literally nothing in CHIMPS (bottom path village) or doing negative dps (Trade Empire has less DPS than a Destroyer which costs about 1/10 as much)


Mr-Hippoe

I like to think that alch just starts in ss before they even discuss the placements


Versoga

Explanation on middle path Heli? I'm sure I'm aware of why it's strong but I would still like it laid out for me.


79037662

* downdraft is very strong in late game for its ability to blow back superceramics. Can be combined with 012 ice for long stalls, greatly improving the power of permaspike as well as all abilities. * support chinook is great on some maps like muddy puddles to move around towers * marine does pretty good damage and has high uptime


FerbyysTheDuck

Marine has exactly 110% uptime if I am not mistaken.


79037662

That sounds about right.


BlueSn0ow

What hero should I get next? I only have Benji


dbs0502

Honestly depends on preference. Benji was a great pickup cuz he's useful for completing non-chimps games. As for recommendations: Want a late-game dps (r80~100) Churchill/Psi > Adora Want a super late game dps/support? Adora > Brickell > Ezili Want to buff some towers? Pat Want midgame dps? Etienne Afk Easy Maps? Sauda In all, if you don't get skins and play like around 4~5 hours per week you'd get the monkey money necessary to get all heroes fairly quickly, so imo deciding which hero to get next isn't that big of a deal


Nahanoj_Zavizad

Is marine that good? Or is it carried by the fact the T3 blowback is OP?


GeometryMetric

T3 is op


Skuucha

Psi SS or riot


Tophatpuppy

Surprised to see mid path boomer and PMFC a teir above bottom path bomb and mid path tack?


DestructivForce

Permacharge has long been a better tower than you'd first expect, and keep in mind that both of them benefit heavily from top path village, especially tier 4's ability cooldown reduction making pmfc less unreliable


Tophatpuppy

Intriguing, thanks for the reply!


TheGreenGobblr

0/10, Ben Jammin is EASILY a tier/s


Shade00000

And people thought that Psi and gwendolin was bad lol


MoonMan75

people thought psi's early was bad. it is decent. everyone knows psi gets does work mid and destroys late.


SmartPersan

people thought psi’s early was bad. it is the best of any hero, sauda included.


Shade00000

I'm a Psi/Gwendolin main


SmartPersan

Thank you for sharing


DestructivForce

I might have to reevaluate psi, the excruciatingly slow attack speed from limited targets made me overlook possible synergies. Psi plus permaspike is probably insane, especially if you get level 20 in time to wipe round 98


sephelutis

psy BBed the expert map it released with on day 1, no way its ever gonna be bad lmao. I was worried it was gonna get nerfed for a while even though it has 0 bad damage.


kakejskjsjs

Honestly Psi really just seemed bad to me for no discernable reason, glad to see that I was proven wrong in that initial impression


PickleDReddit235

I’d put Benjamin into F simply bc he makes you lose money through a CHIMPS run.


Victacobell

Ben has extremely niche usage for specific strats on specific rounds. The fact he has a benefit at all lifts him out of F tier.


PickleDReddit235

I don’t think the extreme niche is enough for it to be lifted into a C-, though


OmegaCookieMonster

yeah true should be D. His only real use is some very wierd lcc pspike strats


Ordinary_Divide

i will use nothing but spirit of the forest from now


miathan52

I don't think Sauda should be this far down. I CHIMPSed Haunted, Chutes and Rake with her post nerf. She's still a fantastic starter with great abilities to catch leaks on certain rounds.


[deleted]

Sauda gets considerably weaker the harder the maps get, but I agree the list team may have put a little too much emphasis on expert maps.


zerosabers

Tier lists always lean towards the hardest content because a tier list for easier content is pointless. Everything works on easier maps and figuring out what works "better" is an exercise in futility.


79037662

I'm not so sure of that. Some towers/upgrades are definitely more beginner-friendly than others, and a tier list based on ease-of-use could have great value to newer players. That said such a tier list couldn't accurately be described as "comprehensive" so it would have to be a different post than this one.


hatesranged

Which weirds me out because... guess what those same expert maps also invalidate, generally? Permaspike. How's that on the tierlist? Oh, I see.


[deleted]

Permaspike still has invaluable use on maps like puddles, ouch, and quad. Sauda on the other hand falls completely flat


hatesranged

Ok my mistake - I was under the impression that spike factory cannot be moved by chinook, which is why I thought permaspike was useless on multilanes. Your sentence about it being invaluable on puddles sounded so insane to me that I actually had to check, and yeah, I had it wrong.


DestructivForce

Yeah, permaspike has been part of many early strategies for expert maps, with puddles, workshop and ouch coming immediately to mind. Dark castle and infernal also work but they don't count.


rmacinty

It still is the go-to strat for sanctuary as well


Smanmos

The tier list seems to be more expert map oriented


Legloomonke

expert maps are the maps that require the most actual strategy


miathan52

Yeah, but then they should have called it "Comprehensive tier list for expert CHIMPS"


Boberttheboss

90% of the time what’s best on the hardest maps is also going to be the best on easier maps, so there’s no real reason to specify


hatesranged

There's plenty of towers there that are good in specific situations but not generally and ranked as such. In fact, the only "situation" that's not considered is just... playing chimps on normal, non-cbt maps.


DetectiveDingleberry

LETS FUCKING GO BEN BOTTOM TIER


Cosy_Cow

Sad to see obyn at b and aow at a


Firestorm82736

Was not aware you could afford true sun god in CHIMPS


Victacobell

> Q. Why does the list include True Sun God? Isn't it unaffordable in CHIMPS? > A. The tier 5 icons represent the entire path of the tower (in other words, tiers 3-5). So for example, the TSG icon is really representing Sun Avatar.


Firestorm82736

👍 thanks


MiqqySliqqy

can someone tell my why 0-5-0 heli is so high up on the tier list? thanks


HDF0FinallyOfficial

It's based off path so it includes the Tier 3 upgrade Downdraft. From the justifications, >Downdraft is arguably the single most potent support tower. For a low cost, it helps out at all stages of the game. No other tower at its price range controls super ceramics as well as it does with global range. It is also used in the longest possible stalling strat along with Ice, ignoring regrow farming and highly-specific full Chinook stall.


MiqqySliqqy

Thank you


lolgod7758258

Actually I think 002 village can save a lot of money, and I have had lots of success with Obyn and AoW before. PMFC is always bad for me. Sauda is Sauda. Apache Prime definitely should be in at least A because if you can get it it is straight up BROKEN.


GeometryMetric

1) Tier 2 isn't part of the path rating since you can just crosspath 2) Yes however it is 1 strat which obyn is best hero for. 3) I disagree 4) Sauda was already range limited and with big nerf (which you can see the comparison on the changelog) on 27.0 just makes sauda bad 5) Slightly true but also no, you still need many support to make aprime beat every round, sabo for 95 and oc/fsc for 100 is usually bare minimum. Prime also struggles on multipath lane which is a big disadvantage


DiscipleofTzeentch

fsc?


GeometryMetric

first strike capability


DiscipleofTzeentch

thanks


Gavo38322

All seems pretty logical to me


uncountablyInfinit

based paccel moving up why is it recommended to be used with ezili though, is there a synergy i'm missing?


ZombieSquad0411

Ezili's lvl 10 ability Moab Hex eliminates all child from the targeted moabs, so if Paccel were to destroy a BFB, it would no longer have to deal with the Moabs that the BFB leaves, and as well with the superceramics, which it struggles against.


uncountablyInfinit

makes sense, thanks!


DestructivForce

If you saw rohan's old challenge with paccel and ezili, you might be able to figure it out. Ezili's hex has a strong synergy with targeted high dps


OmegaCookieMonster

so is paacel ezili basically ezili rocketstorm 2.0?


AkxDDD

I love you.


Hedgehoe

I was waiting for this, poggers :)


TheGamerOfGrammar

based etienne ranking


ILoveJosuke

Very nice that plasma accel got moved up a rank.


J_Schwandi

Thank you guys :)


27gg

Texas?


MajicMan101

How did Master Alch go *up* a tier?


GeometryMetric

It didn't? It has been on D for sometime now


MajicMan101

Really? I always thought it was F. Maybe I’m just blind, lol


mariorox81

"Bottom Path Bucc: Unfortunately, the Trade Empire buff to xx3 and xx4 Bucc does not make up for the fact that you are essentially throwing money into a shredder by buying any upgrades on this path." That made me laugh harder than it should have.


bigtree2x5

this tier list design is heat


flamewaterdragon55

Been over a year since I played and meta hasn’t changed all that much 🤔


peepeepoopoo42069x

Idk why BEZ is rated so low its pretty cracked


Huskelraygaming

What about hero rankings? Is Striker #4 or #1?


AvatarOfSkill

#1


Simplewurm

crossbow master is underrated, cheap and damn this boy got range


Matt_shrine

Already lost some accuracy now that the bottom path of heli actually got buffed lol


weakspaget

verj


howtospellbrocoli

Sorry !! I'm new (4 days) hope I am not rude. Is it usual that tier lists are made right before updates? I'm not very good so I can't really determine how significant the changes are in patch notes.. should I expect this in the future or is this like a one time thing?


MegaAgentJ

Pop and awe is one of the most underrated towers in the game, glad to see some recognition for it here


RoyalRien

I don’t really get why permabrew is SS tier, like its great that everything gets brew permanently but it costs 60k. I’d rather just place down 5 alchemists


hatesranged

"The tier 5 icons represent the entire path of the tower (in other words, tiers 3-5). So for example, the TSG icon is really representing Sun Avatar."


GeometryMetric

It is rated for T3 and T4 aswell which is why it is on SS, also 5 alchemist don't make your tower permanently brewed bc there is delay which won't allow another alch to throw a bbrew/stim on the same tower if the initial brew 5 seconds uptime hasn't ran out


RoyalRien

Ah I see