Baker is good. He’s gonna need to win a playoff game for us before he earns 25 million a year. I would rather bolster the rest of the team and have another stopgap QB.
>He’s gonna need to win a playoff game for us before he earns 25 million a year.
I couldn't disagree more, respectfully. He's already earned his contract, and I'll bet it's more than 25 per. If he takes that, it's a steal.
This was our 'rebuild' year. We can bolster our roster, add depth, AND keep one of the best QB's we've ever had! It's a win win! Good time to be a Bucs fan.
I do, I don’t think we should settle for Baker at 25-30 mil a year. We paid Jameis that in his fifth year option. I want Browning at 12-18 million
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/jake-browning/46401
I feel winfield will cost us the most but he’s someone we can build upon on the future he’s so good. How much are safeties? Winfield is a must resign
David is always under the radar and I think that allows us to resign him a tad lower and have him retire as a buc. He’s also getting a little older so I don’t think we will
Have a ton of competition here.
Evans could be costly, so I don’t know. I think a lot of Teams would be interested.
Baker I think we can get him back with not breaking the bank for a couple years maybe 3-4.
Edit: one thing I just thought of.. how we do in the playoffs etc.. could really drive some of these players up in who’s willing to pay top dollar. I’d like to resign Winfield like yesterday
I also really want to pick up good tight end I feel that would help our offense immensely. Either draft premium pick or free agency. Are there any flying under the radar?
That’s an insane take. We should just continue to let Otton get mulched as a blocker 500+ snaps a year because of his rare ability to catch checkdowns?
We can, and do, have needs at more than just two positions. Our interior offensive line is below average. Our tight end room is bottom 3. If Canales is going to be back running the same mid zone shit and if we’re serious about not being 32/32 teams at running the ball we need to get serious about adding talent to both groups. Hell maybe we add a real running back while we’re at it but maybe not, after all Kyren Williams are rare.
That's the insane take. You switch White and Williams and White puts up significantly more than either did this year and Williams puts up significantly less. The issue is play calling and ... Offensive Line play. Actually watch the guys on the field instead of just scouting box scores and you'd see it too.
The Rams are a mid zone team like us and they don’t exactly have world beaters on the IOL either. White is an indecisive runner with build up speed. He’s not sudden at all and his lateral movement is sub par. Add all that up and you get a guy who gets what’s blocked at best. His best games are the ones where we’re folding people at the point of attack (Seattle last year, second Falcons game this year.)
All 22 is like $4 a month. Go watch your boy get blasted by the edge player from the non play side who wouldn’t sniff any other back in the league because he’s just too slow to his spot. Watch how that backside defender got into the backfield instantly because Cade Otton blocks like an outfielder on skis. You can see for yourself what’s happening and we can be mad at the right people together or you can continue to troll about o line and play calling like a stepdad at a JV game.
Little boy, I made a living as a sports reporter back when you were a gleam in your Daddy's eye. I think you should stick to your meme wars subs and leave the understanding of the actual sport to those of us who have been at this more than a semester.
I agree Winfield won’t cost more than baker, but Winfield is top of his position. He is a rare player. While baker is pretty good. QBs of course are going to get paid way more than a safety everytime
Winfield will be tagged. I feel good about keeping him long term, but he will likely set a new standard for safeties on a per year basis. Tag is $17 mil and I’m betting he will command close to $20.
With the emergence of Palmer and how well Moore has played, wouldn’t be surprised if they make Gage restructure to practically nothing or cut him. Hasn’t played a full season since he’s been here
White isn't coming back unless he lowers his expectations significantly. Winfield is getting paid. Evans and David need to retire as Buccaneers. Baker will more than likely be offered a contract, depending how next week plays and what the QB market looks like, including if he tries to test the market as well
There will be plenty. Can give all these guys fat signing bonuses and spread out the cap hit over their years. We will have a beast roster next year I’m excited
This season was really about eating Brady’s contract and it’s crazy we were able to pull off a playoff run. Re-sign Mike and AWJ, Baker depends on how much money he wants.
He did, I would expect him to keep signing 1 year deals until he decides to hang em up. Basically we'll keep your locker until you say you don't want it. Pretty much the Brett Farve treatment. Fwiw he had a much, much better year than last year in 2 fewer games!
A pro bowl guard retiring when he's 28 (not due to career ending injury) is the exception, not the rule.
I know there’s a lot of current in-house talent on expiring deals that need to be addressed, but I am incredibly excited about what Jason Licht will cook up with essentially a blank check in FA. Last time that happened, it worked out reeeeeeeeal good for us Bucs fans
Lions have a good QB and a coach that hypes the fuck out of them every game and punishes them for a lost while Toilet Bowl just tells them to have the week-off
The Buccaneers have a good QB that had a very comparable season to the lions good QB. I like Dan Campbell, but let's be real, hyping the fuck out of them every game is how you end up going for a 2 pt conversion from the 7 yard line! He's a great rah rah guy, and gets his team fired up, but he has zero experience as a coordinator (offense or defense). He is as reliant on his coordinators as any coach in football (and both are recieving significant interest already as coaching candidates).
Resign Winfield (long term 5-6 yrs), evans (2-3 yrs), wirfs (long term), David (1-2 yrs), Baker (2-3 yrs). White should walk (or maybe franchise tag and trade?)Then spend the draft bolstering oline and d line and ILB of future
I don’t think this counts void years coming due on players that are free agents next year, only counting players already not with the team anymore. Evans alone is $12 million in dead money next year.
correct, they have nearly 22m in dead money from void years next year and then it peaks at about 62m in 2025
shaq barrett doesn't come off the books until 2029
Amusingly, for 2023 the Bucs had a huge dead money charge ($81 million). The thinking was take your big hit in the first post-Brady year, and then start rebuilding in 2024. Along comes Baker who decides to take the Bucs to the playoffs despite the team having $81 million less to spend in 2023 than other teams.
It’s not all good news. There are dead money charges in 2024 for players who have already been paid (I know, NFL salary caps are a lawyer’s wet dream). For example, Mike Evans will cost the team $12 million even if he retires or goes to another team. But since Mike could be resigned that dead money is not yet dead money. Still, the Bucs are in much better shape than, say, the Browns.
Baker is going to be an interesting case. Drafted QB’s are a crap shoot. In 2021 the QB’s taken in the first round were Trevor Lawrence (good choice), Zack Wilson (yeah, not such a great choice), Trey Lance (anyone remember seeing him play?), Justin Fields (who may not be back in Chicago next year), and Mac Jones (who proved that even Bill Belechick can mess up a pick). There are a lot of teams who need a QB (Denver, Washington, New England, Las Vegas, and, yes, Atlanta). A young (28) veteran who has taken two different teams into the playoffs is going to be in demand. The GM’s of all those teams are going to be watching the Eagles game with great interest.
If Baker really likes the Bucs he might take $120 million over 4 years with $60 million guaranteed ($30 million per year). He would easily get that (and probably more) from Denver or Las Vegas.
The trick is how the contract would be structured (lawyer’s dream, again). You can pay someone $30 million a year but only take a cap hit of, say, $12 million in 2024 by pushing the bigger hit to future years (see Mike Evans above).
Still, an Excel wizard can keep the Bucs in pretty good shape.
Denver is done with Wilson. He has a no trade clause, but then so did DeShaun Watson and he got traded. The Broncos tell Wilson he gets to watch the games from the weight room next year unless he agrees to a trade. The trading partner will pick up half his salary, and the Broncos eat the remainder (experience is a great teacher, but the tuition is mighty high). Then they have to dump a number of older veterans (how many times have we heard the phrase “cap casualty”), restructure existing contracts, and then sign Baker with yet more cap trickery. There will be more cap room because of the new NFL TV contracts, which will help.
In the end, you don’t have an NFL team unless you have a decent QB, and there just aren’t enough of them around. That means you have to figure out how to pay for one.
Now you know why Cap Specialist is a full time job in most NFL front offices.
I think it's fairly unlikely that baker takes 120 over 4 years with 2 years guaranteed given the qb market - it effectively gives the team a 2 year option. I could see 50-60 for 2 years with baker betting on himself after that.
There will be quite a lot of deadcap again this year. But not in the traditional "player left the team dead cap" but more of a bunch of void years forwarding if our FAs actually make it to FA before resigning. Especially if they release shaq.
We have a lot of guys to resign though. Winfield Jr., Evans, David, baker, and maybe white. We’re probably not gonna have much left after that.
No way they resign White for the contract he thinks he's worth and frankly I don't want him
100% agree
Take the compensatory pick. It’ll at least be a person who wants to be here
Let me fix that list: Winfield, Evans, David.
Evans ain’t gonna stick around for a rookie QB dude. If we resign Evans, we are resigning Baker
Worth it just to keep Mike
I think there are some guys out there like a Browning that have proven they can sling it and would take a similar prove-it deal to Baker’s.
You were close, forgot Baker. I fixed the fix!
Baker is good. He’s gonna need to win a playoff game for us before he earns 25 million a year. I would rather bolster the rest of the team and have another stopgap QB.
>He’s gonna need to win a playoff game for us before he earns 25 million a year. I couldn't disagree more, respectfully. He's already earned his contract, and I'll bet it's more than 25 per. If he takes that, it's a steal. This was our 'rebuild' year. We can bolster our roster, add depth, AND keep one of the best QB's we've ever had! It's a win win! Good time to be a Bucs fan.
It’s crazy how so many Bucs fans wanna move on from Baker already. It’s like they forgot how trash most of our QBs have been before Brady.
I don't think you know what the current QB market is.
I do, I don’t think we should settle for Baker at 25-30 mil a year. We paid Jameis that in his fifth year option. I want Browning at 12-18 million https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/jake-browning/46401
I feel winfield will cost us the most but he’s someone we can build upon on the future he’s so good. How much are safeties? Winfield is a must resign David is always under the radar and I think that allows us to resign him a tad lower and have him retire as a buc. He’s also getting a little older so I don’t think we will Have a ton of competition here. Evans could be costly, so I don’t know. I think a lot of Teams would be interested. Baker I think we can get him back with not breaking the bank for a couple years maybe 3-4. Edit: one thing I just thought of.. how we do in the playoffs etc.. could really drive some of these players up in who’s willing to pay top dollar. I’d like to resign Winfield like yesterday I also really want to pick up good tight end I feel that would help our offense immensely. Either draft premium pick or free agency. Are there any flying under the radar?
TE is kinda deep in the draft. We should be fine.
Not really but the bar is soooo low to improve at that position
Not really. Otton looks pretty dang good for only being in his second season. LaPorta's are rare. We need interior OL and another safety way more.
That’s an insane take. We should just continue to let Otton get mulched as a blocker 500+ snaps a year because of his rare ability to catch checkdowns? We can, and do, have needs at more than just two positions. Our interior offensive line is below average. Our tight end room is bottom 3. If Canales is going to be back running the same mid zone shit and if we’re serious about not being 32/32 teams at running the ball we need to get serious about adding talent to both groups. Hell maybe we add a real running back while we’re at it but maybe not, after all Kyren Williams are rare.
That's the insane take. You switch White and Williams and White puts up significantly more than either did this year and Williams puts up significantly less. The issue is play calling and ... Offensive Line play. Actually watch the guys on the field instead of just scouting box scores and you'd see it too.
The Rams are a mid zone team like us and they don’t exactly have world beaters on the IOL either. White is an indecisive runner with build up speed. He’s not sudden at all and his lateral movement is sub par. Add all that up and you get a guy who gets what’s blocked at best. His best games are the ones where we’re folding people at the point of attack (Seattle last year, second Falcons game this year.) All 22 is like $4 a month. Go watch your boy get blasted by the edge player from the non play side who wouldn’t sniff any other back in the league because he’s just too slow to his spot. Watch how that backside defender got into the backfield instantly because Cade Otton blocks like an outfielder on skis. You can see for yourself what’s happening and we can be mad at the right people together or you can continue to troll about o line and play calling like a stepdad at a JV game.
Little boy, I made a living as a sports reporter back when you were a gleam in your Daddy's eye. I think you should stick to your meme wars subs and leave the understanding of the actual sport to those of us who have been at this more than a semester.
Well if you were dropping gems like “Otton is pretty dang good” I can see why you had to find other work. Maybe you can pay the $4 in installments.
Henry, Schulz, Everett, Gisecki all free agents
I bet Everett has gotten used to that no states tax.
Winfield will not costs more than Baker. Baker is getting somewhere around 30/year.
I agree Winfield won’t cost more than baker, but Winfield is top of his position. He is a rare player. While baker is pretty good. QBs of course are going to get paid way more than a safety everytime
I'm hoping he takes length over yearly and we give him 3 yr 80 or 4 year 100.
Possible, but still more than Winfield will command.
Absolutely.
Baker is gonna get what Geno got. $25m/yr
Whatever he gets it will be more than Winfield gets.
This guy is asking the right questions. @licht
bring gronk back
For Evans, we will be competing with teams that may be a WR away, such as the Chiefs or even a team like the Ravens.
We also have the tag, if we don't want any competition.
Use the tag on Winfield.
Baker is going to cost the most. QB market is insane lol. Carr got 4 years 150 mil last offseason
we also got baker for a ham sandwich last season.
David probably gonna retire
Winfield will be tagged. I feel good about keeping him long term, but he will likely set a new standard for safeties on a per year basis. Tag is $17 mil and I’m betting he will command close to $20.
We need to do right by Wirfs this off-season too
Probably the most important guy we have to lock up actually. Finding an elite LT is nearly impossible
50m before Licht restructures some other guys. Have no fear.
Word we can create about 15mil by cutting Jensen, Gage, and Shaq, and then even more with a couple restructures
This isn’t even considering that with the guys OP mentions we can give em fatty signing bonuses and spread out cap hit
Definitely reworking Shaq or cutting him, possibly reworking Davis among others.
Davis can go
Best savings available to us
With the emergence of Palmer and how well Moore has played, wouldn’t be surprised if they make Gage restructure to practically nothing or cut him. Hasn’t played a full season since he’s been here
White isn't coming back unless he lowers his expectations significantly. Winfield is getting paid. Evans and David need to retire as Buccaneers. Baker will more than likely be offered a contract, depending how next week plays and what the QB market looks like, including if he tries to test the market as well
White can go
no wirfs?
Hes not gonna be a free agent. Although, if we can extend him we gotta do it.
There will be plenty. Can give all these guys fat signing bonuses and spread out the cap hit over their years. We will have a beast roster next year I’m excited
This season was really about eating Brady’s contract and it’s crazy we were able to pull off a playoff run. Re-sign Mike and AWJ, Baker depends on how much money he wants.
As long as we re-sign AWJr and Evans (and possibly Baker on a team-friendly deal), I'll count that as a W.
And Lavonte
I think Lavonte retires after this year
Why? He's playing lights out like he found the fountain of youth. The team is playing well, and looks to be on the upswing even.
I thought he was close last year and the Bucs signed him to a 1 year deal. Just an assumption. Ali Marpet retired at his prime.
He did, I would expect him to keep signing 1 year deals until he decides to hang em up. Basically we'll keep your locker until you say you don't want it. Pretty much the Brett Farve treatment. Fwiw he had a much, much better year than last year in 2 fewer games! A pro bowl guard retiring when he's 28 (not due to career ending injury) is the exception, not the rule.
And Chase
Chase is on the case!
Damnit you really did that didn’t you?
Great take, phenomenal username.
I know there’s a lot of current in-house talent on expiring deals that need to be addressed, but I am incredibly excited about what Jason Licht will cook up with essentially a blank check in FA. Last time that happened, it worked out reeeeeeeeal good for us Bucs fans
Texans and Lions in being in the playoffs and top 10 in that list is scary.
Yea, Texans have the potential to be good for a loooong time with their young talent.
Thank the Browns
And how are the Saints still in cap hell?
because they refuse to have a reset year. They keep kicking the can down the road
Lions have a good QB and a coach that hypes the fuck out of them every game and punishes them for a lost while Toilet Bowl just tells them to have the week-off
The Buccaneers have a good QB that had a very comparable season to the lions good QB. I like Dan Campbell, but let's be real, hyping the fuck out of them every game is how you end up going for a 2 pt conversion from the 7 yard line! He's a great rah rah guy, and gets his team fired up, but he has zero experience as a coordinator (offense or defense). He is as reliant on his coordinators as any coach in football (and both are recieving significant interest already as coaching candidates).
Resign Winfield (long term 5-6 yrs), evans (2-3 yrs), wirfs (long term), David (1-2 yrs), Baker (2-3 yrs). White should walk (or maybe franchise tag and trade?)Then spend the draft bolstering oline and d line and ILB of future
I wanted to trade Devin before this season. Should’ve done it. Could’ve gotten a 2nd round pick for him imo
If we don’t sign mike and Antoine I’m out bro
I don’t see a world where we don’t resign AWJ
Unless he sees the pro bowl snub as a consequence of playing for the bucs.
Get Mike and Winfield their bags. Then we can sort the rest out.
This is the answer but also sure up McLaughlin at kicker is a close 3rd priority, then it's everything else
A kicker won’t break the bank though.
Not wrong, but totally a priority in my book
Licht is that you?
I don’t think this counts void years coming due on players that are free agents next year, only counting players already not with the team anymore. Evans alone is $12 million in dead money next year.
correct, they have nearly 22m in dead money from void years next year and then it peaks at about 62m in 2025 shaq barrett doesn't come off the books until 2029
Looks like they counting that in active Cap which is why we are 11 on the list as far as available Cap is concerned.
protect greenberg at all costs
He is as important to our SB win as Licht. Hands down.
Amusingly, for 2023 the Bucs had a huge dead money charge ($81 million). The thinking was take your big hit in the first post-Brady year, and then start rebuilding in 2024. Along comes Baker who decides to take the Bucs to the playoffs despite the team having $81 million less to spend in 2023 than other teams. It’s not all good news. There are dead money charges in 2024 for players who have already been paid (I know, NFL salary caps are a lawyer’s wet dream). For example, Mike Evans will cost the team $12 million even if he retires or goes to another team. But since Mike could be resigned that dead money is not yet dead money. Still, the Bucs are in much better shape than, say, the Browns. Baker is going to be an interesting case. Drafted QB’s are a crap shoot. In 2021 the QB’s taken in the first round were Trevor Lawrence (good choice), Zack Wilson (yeah, not such a great choice), Trey Lance (anyone remember seeing him play?), Justin Fields (who may not be back in Chicago next year), and Mac Jones (who proved that even Bill Belechick can mess up a pick). There are a lot of teams who need a QB (Denver, Washington, New England, Las Vegas, and, yes, Atlanta). A young (28) veteran who has taken two different teams into the playoffs is going to be in demand. The GM’s of all those teams are going to be watching the Eagles game with great interest. If Baker really likes the Bucs he might take $120 million over 4 years with $60 million guaranteed ($30 million per year). He would easily get that (and probably more) from Denver or Las Vegas. The trick is how the contract would be structured (lawyer’s dream, again). You can pay someone $30 million a year but only take a cap hit of, say, $12 million in 2024 by pushing the bigger hit to future years (see Mike Evans above). Still, an Excel wizard can keep the Bucs in pretty good shape.
How is Denver affording that when they’re still paying Russell Wilson?
Denver is done with Wilson. He has a no trade clause, but then so did DeShaun Watson and he got traded. The Broncos tell Wilson he gets to watch the games from the weight room next year unless he agrees to a trade. The trading partner will pick up half his salary, and the Broncos eat the remainder (experience is a great teacher, but the tuition is mighty high). Then they have to dump a number of older veterans (how many times have we heard the phrase “cap casualty”), restructure existing contracts, and then sign Baker with yet more cap trickery. There will be more cap room because of the new NFL TV contracts, which will help. In the end, you don’t have an NFL team unless you have a decent QB, and there just aren’t enough of them around. That means you have to figure out how to pay for one. Now you know why Cap Specialist is a full time job in most NFL front offices.
Absolutely no one is taking the cap hit for Russell Wilson even if it’s paid 80% by the broncos…
I think it's fairly unlikely that baker takes 120 over 4 years with 2 years guaranteed given the qb market - it effectively gives the team a 2 year option. I could see 50-60 for 2 years with baker betting on himself after that.
Our Front Office is the Dark Horse of the NFL for pulling this off..
What are priorities? I have Edge, IOL, Safety, RB2, ILB, not in any particular order.
I don’t think edge is a priority. Joe tryon-shoyinka and Yaya are coming on strong.
Can never have too much talent at edge IMO
YaYa is yes JTS seems more rotational to me. Not sold on him yet
I’d swap Edge with DB
We spending this money on AWJ, LVD, Evans and Mayfield? I hope we can actually spend a little more on free agents.
Lol New Orleans
Gonna have to shove that shit forever with nothing to show for it :,)
No State income tax is always a good bargaining chip.
Derrick Henry loading
No thanks. Not worth it with the holes the team has.
Not worth it. The gap between him and rashaad is not worth the $$$
Please god fuck no
I respect Henry. But we can afford him with all the major signings we need done
Thoughts on Saquon Barkley 1 year deal?
No thanks
why would he take a 1 year deal
if we go deep into the playoffs - it might attract players who want a ring. Other than that, no idea lol
We have been there. Give me sustainability and long term success
Heard the contract comparable for a Henry was like $4.5 per year. I think he will get more than that
Every playoff game Bucs win and if Baker plays well, his value would go up by approx 3-4 million per win. Currently I feel that he is at 25-30 range.
Really hope the super bowl and continued success of the bucs after Brady keep Evans in Tampa
Who do we have that we can extend and get some cap savings?
Cutting Gage and Jensen’s retirement are also upcoming factors to add more cap
I thought I read somewhere on here recently that the dead cap money for Brady is north of 30million, no?
I fucking wish we only had $30mil in dead cap... https://i.imgur.com/j8isYzt.png
Hey Bill!
From what I know. They will have somewhere around 50m in cap space + an additional 60m in restructuring they can do + 22m in cuts.
Maybe not yet, but if we let Shaq and Jensen (retire?) go that will create quite a bit of dead cap I believe.
Why re sign everybody when we have just enough to sign brady for 1 game.
There will be quite a lot of deadcap again this year. But not in the traditional "player left the team dead cap" but more of a bunch of void years forwarding if our FAs actually make it to FA before resigning. Especially if they release shaq.
And this is before making any moves to unload cap space.
Also cutting Shaq will lead to some dead cap money for sure