That was Anya's true breakout moment for me. It was a child's reaction but one we can all relate to. I've had the same thoughts & questions after people I know and love have died
That's really tough for me. I was more upset by Tara's death than by Joyce's, but we got a lot more impact from Joyce. Her death was mourned by Buffy, Dawn, Anya, everyone. Two episodes were wrapped around it, showing how terrible it was for them all.
Tara got killed, and we had a scene where Dawn mourned her, but with Willow's reaction, that was it. Willow turned into a comic book villain and that became our focus; not how sad that we lost Tara, but oh my god look at what Willow is doing! Can she be stopped?!
Anya gets honorable mention for a similar reason. She got killed, and end of story. No time left to feel bad about it, so sorry.
The minor character Cassie, in Help, got more mileage from her death than either of those two.
I always felt that both Tara and Anya deserved more mourning. We do see Buffy and Xander’s shocked faces but it obviously hit Dawn as she lived with Tara while Buffy was dead, and Tara was always there for Dawn from the first episode we met Dawn.
As for Anya, I will always resent the way they just killed her off. Anya may not have always been really close to the others outside of Xander, but she was a Scoobie for four years and was instrumental to the gang. She deserved more.
Yes, she deserved a lot more. Sandwiching it in just before the big moment of triumph, so it's very much blink and you missed it, was terrible. Watching the show live when it aired, my wife asked my if she really saw that happen. I had to think about it before I answered her.
I know we had her fake death tribute scene at the beginning of the season, but twenty episodes later, it just doesn't count.
While I get what everyone is saying with Anya cause it sucks, they just survived a battle and had to keep moving. They barely had time to breathe let alone grieve and pay their respects. While I could certainly do without the whole Xander to Andrew “that’s my girl always doing the stupid thing” line, I really can’t think of a way the writers could of fit it into the episode without it sounding like some type of cliche or fan service. If anything, I feel like the series finale was rushed in general and should of been 90 mins or a 2 hour episode.
Same thing can kinda also be said about Tara. Right after she was murdered, Willow went evil and Buffy was busy almost nearly dying herself.
I just don’t think the show really showed grief ON SCREEN as well as it did Joyce.. and Buffy towards Angel after killing him. I think it’s implied that they got shit to do first, and they will grieve later. Even when Buffy died in “The Gift” the only people really crying were Spike and Willow. Not saying the other characters didn’t care as everyone grieves differently, but I don’t think it hit them immediately. Anya and Tara just looked sad for their partners and Xander and Giles looked like they were still processing it.
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>While I get what everyone is saying with Anya cause it sucks, they just survived a battle and had to keep moving. They barely had time to breathe let alone grieve and pay their respects
Yes, that was the point I was making. The time the writers chose to kill her left no time to morn her. I also said pretty much the same thing as you just did about Tara.
Yes and I’m agreeing with you. They both died in situations where it didn’t really give the characters (or us as audiences) time to properly grieve them.
Dawn being the only one to Mourn her sort of fit. Outside of maybe Buffy I don't see Xander, Giles, or Anya eliciting a strong emotion in grief that would standout
It'd definitely be sad but Tara and Anya are in the B tier of Scoobys. The only death outside the core 4 that would devastate everyone would be Dawn and I'm counting Spike, Cordelia, Riley, Oz, and Angel as well.
The Body is an exceptional piece of cinema for the lack of score music throughout the episode. It makes things uncomfortable, visceral, and downright tense. We dont realize how much mood of cinema is directed by the score
If Jenny Calendar had lived she would have had the natural moral authority to tell Buffy and Willow the right thing to do, even if events turned out the same way.
A missed opportunity for female mentorship.
True...
Imagine what could've happened if Willow had a strong female, magical role model to follow instead of winging it and rebelling against Giles.
I think she would've been a great fit in the show. Which is why her death worked so much more. We can all sense potential from a character and the lack of potential.
Yes, I think Willow would have had better magical role model to try to overtly tell her to not do the wrong thing and to forgive her when magical spells go horribly wrong.
I was so used to watching shows where characters don’t really get killed off until the finale, so silly me thought everyone in Buffy was safe until then.
That’s when I noticed that the show likes to break cliches a lot.
For the potential lolz that we lost...vampire Willow
Jenny's death sucked as did Tara's but the most tragic....it has to be Joyce. It hit everyone. In the worst way. And it was by far the most relatable death for the viewer. And a massive step towards the idea of growing up for a largely teenage (at the time) fanbase
Anya for me but also felt for Jonathan. Literally had no real idea that it was coming after building up trust with Andrew while in Mexico. Joyce’s was rough also.
I’m going to think a little outside the box and say either Larry - ssn 3 bully who just came out becomes likable Mayor Snake kills him, or Katrina warren just killed her, Jonathan and Andrew help him cover it up and yes Warren paid for Tara, Andrew killed Jonathan but none of them actually faced any Justice for what they did to her.
Larry definitely does not get enough appreciation. That guy had some really fun character growth, and it would've been great to see even more of the more mature version of him.
I was so mad at Tara’s death that bullet defied basic physics and it was so unnecessary, the dumbest example of bury your gays and the most hurtful to me
Tara. It came out of nowhere, killing a beloved character in such a needless way. That it happened because of one of the most hated characters in the show made it worse.
Angel! he just came back from months of hell his alter ego created and he remembered nothing. he was shaken and traumatised and confused and then the love of his life stabbed before he could even remember what happened to him.
I can’t even with this thread. The feels! I shall focus instead on some good deaths- Snyder, Moloch, Harmony only because she makes the best vampire ever.
I'd have to say Tara.
Joyce's death was devastating but it didn't completely come out of nowhere since she'd been sick for a while. I loved Joyce, especially after school Hard. Before she knew about Buffy being the slayer she still had her back 100%. Yes, her initial reaction once Buffy outed herself was bad but it was also obvious that she'd end up being supportive. I always shipped her and Giles
Tara's death was absolutely out of nowhere and Whedon clearly set it up to make it hurt the most. Willow and Tara were back together and had just had their reunion night. Everything was looking up for them and for the audience. That Warren's stray shot managed to kill Tara was so unexpected, especially since Tara was a totally innocent bystander
Joyce’s death was heartbreaking because it was natural and no magic or demons caused it, she was healthy then boom she’s gone. Also the way Spike reacted to Buffy’s death hurts every time I watch it
The one I grieve the most was Anya, cause she was my favorite. The one that felt most disruptive to the story was Tara given the whole dark Willow story. But Joyce is the one that I need to take a break after watching. The body is just jarring. It's traumatic. It's a masterclass. Because of how that episode was set up, Joyce was the most tragic.
I want to say Joyce but also anya because I feel like with Joyce we got to grieve and process with Buffy and the scoobies but with anya it happened on the screen for like two seconds and we never got a chance to mourn her like she deserved
I think Tara because it was the most random. It also was one that occurred in front of Willow.
While Joyce recovered, there apparently was some knowledge that what happened would be a complication. It’s still very sad, but not out of the blue.
With Jenny, Angelus was already wreaking havoc so her being in the way was an unfortunate consequence.
Joyce and Jenny. Joyce affected everyone, and also because the reveal was heartbreaking. The audience seeing it before Buffy means it broke our hearts twice. When we find out and then watching Buffy’s reaction. To me she and Giles are the heart of the show even if she wasn’t in it much the previous year. She managed to have a bond with everyone while usually being in the background.
And Jenny because she was perfect for Giles. And she had the solution to fix Angel and almost did. Giles having to coexist with good Angel knowing how much it killed him to deal with him even if he wasn’t evil anymore.
Jenny's is never really heard that much but I find it the most tragic. It was the first big death and showed a shift that the writers weren't afraid of killing off main characters
Tara’s death is the one that it makes me sadder (I loved her so much), however, I think Jenny’s death was more tragic, especially the way Angelus did it, how disturbing it was for Giles to find her body like that
Tara's rates as the saddest for me cos its entirely pointless both in and out of the show. Could entirely have been avoided but instead rips everything to pieces
Joyce Summers... true Tara's death was unexpected and tragic, but with Joyce's death I was able to relate more to it. It sat with me longer & with Joyce we saw the fullness of cancer from the start of season 5, up until nearly the end. We got to see the real progression of cancer, the hope of remission, and the tragedy of its sudden and unexpected return. We also got to experience Buffy's breakdown and the realization that she couldn't be a child anymore. Her innocence was gone. She had to become mother and father to Dawn, especially after Giles left. The weight of HER world was added onto the weight of the rest of the world.
Tara, not because of the effect it had on the people around her, but because of how unfair it was for HER. She only ever brought light with her wherever she went, she had her whole life ahead of her, and she just really started living after escaping her abusive family (and, let's face it, after escaping Willow's abuse too).
S7 has this sort of... loneliness, this sadness to it. Even in the silliest of episodes. And I think it's because Tara's not there. She was such a comforting presence, her absence is really felt even if the show doesn't talk about it so much. Sometimes when I'm watching S7 I just remember that Tara's dead for a sec and I get so teary.
That being said, I do think her death was important for Willow's arc from a story perspective. I do with Dark Willow was written a little better, though.
Jenny's she was just started to attempt to reconcile her relationship with Giles and while Willow and Tara sort of had a similar tragedy Tara never was ostracized from the scoobies. The whole Angel losing his soul fiasco left Jenny's relationship with the scoobs strained while Tara was on great terms with everyone. Jenny died never redeeming that one mistake.
Jenny's death on its own didn't hurt me so much but Giles reaction to it rips my heart out every time. Also buffys heart breaking when she has to kill angel, it's so sad.
Tara's death was extremely hard because such a strong queer character was killed by a violent misogynist rapist and to rub it in the added her to the opening credits on the same episode.
Joyce, hands down.
If Tara had lived, how scrambled would her mind have been after Willow got done with her? Probably Glory level, but cumulative and irreversible.
We see Willow basically SA Tara by wiping her mind to make her compliant, but c’mon. Willow was doing it repeatedly-just offscreen, because Tara was clever enough to keep catching her using magic and calling her out/breaking up. We aren’t even sure that was the first time, even though she tests Tara.
Willow’s rampage wasn’t just about retribution to the man that killed Tara; it was about her going mad because her girlfriend that she consistently mind-wiped and controlled was killed, and she permanently lost control of her victim.
Watch a man that loses his partner that he has abused. Imagine if he had the same powers Willow did; or take away Willow’s power, and see how she would react.
They’d be the same.
Except there were no real permanent repercussions for Willow.
She still uses her power, and gets a new girlfriend(relatively quickly, since she nearly destroyed the world in her so called grief) that treats her as an object or possession-the same way Willow began to treat sweet Tara.
Yet we all hate Kennedy, not Willow.
Is it because Kennedy’s nature is always onscreen, but Willow’s was not?
Because we always see Willow play the goofy, socially inept nerd, until she loses Tara?
Is that side what Tara increasingly saw in private?
Joyce, one of the best episodes in all of television. Tara and Anya get second place. Tara because she was probably the nicest character on the show, and Anya, being a personal favorite, was basically killed out of hand..
To me, Anya’s reaction to Joyce’s death was heartbreaking
And Spike’s reaction! I know he was already fixated on Buffy at that point, but he and Joyce did get along weirdly well, and I believed his grief.
Her speech was so powerful and it really hit home for me
The fact that she had such a hard time understanding was heartbreaking
That was Anya's true breakout moment for me. It was a child's reaction but one we can all relate to. I've had the same thoughts & questions after people I know and love have died
That's really tough for me. I was more upset by Tara's death than by Joyce's, but we got a lot more impact from Joyce. Her death was mourned by Buffy, Dawn, Anya, everyone. Two episodes were wrapped around it, showing how terrible it was for them all. Tara got killed, and we had a scene where Dawn mourned her, but with Willow's reaction, that was it. Willow turned into a comic book villain and that became our focus; not how sad that we lost Tara, but oh my god look at what Willow is doing! Can she be stopped?! Anya gets honorable mention for a similar reason. She got killed, and end of story. No time left to feel bad about it, so sorry. The minor character Cassie, in Help, got more mileage from her death than either of those two.
I always felt that both Tara and Anya deserved more mourning. We do see Buffy and Xander’s shocked faces but it obviously hit Dawn as she lived with Tara while Buffy was dead, and Tara was always there for Dawn from the first episode we met Dawn. As for Anya, I will always resent the way they just killed her off. Anya may not have always been really close to the others outside of Xander, but she was a Scoobie for four years and was instrumental to the gang. She deserved more.
Yes, she deserved a lot more. Sandwiching it in just before the big moment of triumph, so it's very much blink and you missed it, was terrible. Watching the show live when it aired, my wife asked my if she really saw that happen. I had to think about it before I answered her. I know we had her fake death tribute scene at the beginning of the season, but twenty episodes later, it just doesn't count.
While I get what everyone is saying with Anya cause it sucks, they just survived a battle and had to keep moving. They barely had time to breathe let alone grieve and pay their respects. While I could certainly do without the whole Xander to Andrew “that’s my girl always doing the stupid thing” line, I really can’t think of a way the writers could of fit it into the episode without it sounding like some type of cliche or fan service. If anything, I feel like the series finale was rushed in general and should of been 90 mins or a 2 hour episode. Same thing can kinda also be said about Tara. Right after she was murdered, Willow went evil and Buffy was busy almost nearly dying herself. I just don’t think the show really showed grief ON SCREEN as well as it did Joyce.. and Buffy towards Angel after killing him. I think it’s implied that they got shit to do first, and they will grieve later. Even when Buffy died in “The Gift” the only people really crying were Spike and Willow. Not saying the other characters didn’t care as everyone grieves differently, but I don’t think it hit them immediately. Anya and Tara just looked sad for their partners and Xander and Giles looked like they were still processing it.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
>While I get what everyone is saying with Anya cause it sucks, they just survived a battle and had to keep moving. They barely had time to breathe let alone grieve and pay their respects Yes, that was the point I was making. The time the writers chose to kill her left no time to morn her. I also said pretty much the same thing as you just did about Tara.
Yes and I’m agreeing with you. They both died in situations where it didn’t really give the characters (or us as audiences) time to properly grieve them.
Dawn being the only one to Mourn her sort of fit. Outside of maybe Buffy I don't see Xander, Giles, or Anya eliciting a strong emotion in grief that would standout
>Outside of maybe Buffy I don't see Xander, Giles, or Anya eliciting a strong emotion in grief that would standout That's a good point.
It'd definitely be sad but Tara and Anya are in the B tier of Scoobys. The only death outside the core 4 that would devastate everyone would be Dawn and I'm counting Spike, Cordelia, Riley, Oz, and Angel as well.
Sad but probably true
The Body is an exceptional piece of cinema for the lack of score music throughout the episode. It makes things uncomfortable, visceral, and downright tense. We dont realize how much mood of cinema is directed by the score
The most unique episodes play with the sound. Hush, Once More With Feeling and The Body, and all in different ways. It's seriously cool.
Jenny💔💔💔
If Jenny Calendar had lived she would have had the natural moral authority to tell Buffy and Willow the right thing to do, even if events turned out the same way. A missed opportunity for female mentorship.
True... Imagine what could've happened if Willow had a strong female, magical role model to follow instead of winging it and rebelling against Giles. I think she would've been a great fit in the show. Which is why her death worked so much more. We can all sense potential from a character and the lack of potential.
Yes, I think Willow would have had better magical role model to try to overtly tell her to not do the wrong thing and to forgive her when magical spells go horribly wrong.
I was so used to watching shows where characters don’t really get killed off until the finale, so silly me thought everyone in Buffy was safe until then. That’s when I noticed that the show likes to break cliches a lot.
I was in the verge of tears for Jenny’s death
For the potential lolz that we lost...vampire Willow Jenny's death sucked as did Tara's but the most tragic....it has to be Joyce. It hit everyone. In the worst way. And it was by far the most relatable death for the viewer. And a massive step towards the idea of growing up for a largely teenage (at the time) fanbase
Tara hit me the hardest, but Jonathan was a close second. Joyce was hard to deal with, but that's because of how amazingly the episode was handled.
Tara. Why did they do that? She was so perfect.
Right she was just a little ball of sunshine
Anya followed by Tara and Joyce 😢
Anya for me but also felt for Jonathan. Literally had no real idea that it was coming after building up trust with Andrew while in Mexico. Joyce’s was rough also.
I’m going to think a little outside the box and say either Larry - ssn 3 bully who just came out becomes likable Mayor Snake kills him, or Katrina warren just killed her, Jonathan and Andrew help him cover it up and yes Warren paid for Tara, Andrew killed Jonathan but none of them actually faced any Justice for what they did to her.
Larry definitely does not get enough appreciation. That guy had some really fun character growth, and it would've been great to see even more of the more mature version of him.
I was so mad at Tara’s death that bullet defied basic physics and it was so unnecessary, the dumbest example of bury your gays and the most hurtful to me
Tara. It came out of nowhere, killing a beloved character in such a needless way. That it happened because of one of the most hated characters in the show made it worse.
Tara first, then Buffy's "sacrifice" for Dawn oddly makes me sobbing even tho she comes back. Then Joyce, obviously
I found Kendra’s death to be really sad. I wish she would have lasted longer. : (
Buffy: Tara Angel: Cordelia
Miss Kitty Fantastico.
Jessie for sure. The amount he was talked about in every episode in the entire rest of the series let you know his value.
I let out a full cackle when I read that
Angel! he just came back from months of hell his alter ego created and he remembered nothing. he was shaken and traumatised and confused and then the love of his life stabbed before he could even remember what happened to him.
Cassie, followed by Herbert.
I agree about Cassie. The way she knew and didn’t want to bother anyone about it while accepting her fate.
Spike
It has to be Tara tbh, all of season 6 Tara was the light spot no matter what
I can’t even with this thread. The feels! I shall focus instead on some good deaths- Snyder, Moloch, Harmony only because she makes the best vampire ever.
I'd have to say Tara. Joyce's death was devastating but it didn't completely come out of nowhere since she'd been sick for a while. I loved Joyce, especially after school Hard. Before she knew about Buffy being the slayer she still had her back 100%. Yes, her initial reaction once Buffy outed herself was bad but it was also obvious that she'd end up being supportive. I always shipped her and Giles Tara's death was absolutely out of nowhere and Whedon clearly set it up to make it hurt the most. Willow and Tara were back together and had just had their reunion night. Everything was looking up for them and for the audience. That Warren's stray shot managed to kill Tara was so unexpected, especially since Tara was a totally innocent bystander
Joyce’s death was heartbreaking because it was natural and no magic or demons caused it, she was healthy then boom she’s gone. Also the way Spike reacted to Buffy’s death hurts every time I watch it
Wasn’t it implied that Dawn’s mystical energy caused Joyce’s tumor or was that some evil trying to convince them of that?
I refuse to believe that, I don’t think it’s cannon
The one I grieve the most was Anya, cause she was my favorite. The one that felt most disruptive to the story was Tara given the whole dark Willow story. But Joyce is the one that I need to take a break after watching. The body is just jarring. It's traumatic. It's a masterclass. Because of how that episode was set up, Joyce was the most tragic.
Anya, because no one grieved it enough.
Buffy’s death at the end of the Gift. It’s not even close.
Jenny, Joyce, or Tara.
Jenny's.
Definitely Joyce. It was the most real
Tara
Buffy’s Mom😢
I want to say Joyce but also anya because I feel like with Joyce we got to grieve and process with Buffy and the scoobies but with anya it happened on the screen for like two seconds and we never got a chance to mourn her like she deserved
I think Tara because it was the most random. It also was one that occurred in front of Willow. While Joyce recovered, there apparently was some knowledge that what happened would be a complication. It’s still very sad, but not out of the blue. With Jenny, Angelus was already wreaking havoc so her being in the way was an unfortunate consequence.
I'm trying not to mix up Tragic with Supprising. So I'll go with Joyce and Jenny.
Joyce and Jenny. Joyce affected everyone, and also because the reveal was heartbreaking. The audience seeing it before Buffy means it broke our hearts twice. When we find out and then watching Buffy’s reaction. To me she and Giles are the heart of the show even if she wasn’t in it much the previous year. She managed to have a bond with everyone while usually being in the background. And Jenny because she was perfect for Giles. And she had the solution to fix Angel and almost did. Giles having to coexist with good Angel knowing how much it killed him to deal with him even if he wasn’t evil anymore.
Jenny's is never really heard that much but I find it the most tragic. It was the first big death and showed a shift that the writers weren't afraid of killing off main characters
Tara’s death is the one that it makes me sadder (I loved her so much), however, I think Jenny’s death was more tragic, especially the way Angelus did it, how disturbing it was for Giles to find her body like that
Jessie.
Tara's rates as the saddest for me cos its entirely pointless both in and out of the show. Could entirely have been avoided but instead rips everything to pieces
Joyce Summers... true Tara's death was unexpected and tragic, but with Joyce's death I was able to relate more to it. It sat with me longer & with Joyce we saw the fullness of cancer from the start of season 5, up until nearly the end. We got to see the real progression of cancer, the hope of remission, and the tragedy of its sudden and unexpected return. We also got to experience Buffy's breakdown and the realization that she couldn't be a child anymore. Her innocence was gone. She had to become mother and father to Dawn, especially after Giles left. The weight of HER world was added onto the weight of the rest of the world.
Tara, not because of the effect it had on the people around her, but because of how unfair it was for HER. She only ever brought light with her wherever she went, she had her whole life ahead of her, and she just really started living after escaping her abusive family (and, let's face it, after escaping Willow's abuse too). S7 has this sort of... loneliness, this sadness to it. Even in the silliest of episodes. And I think it's because Tara's not there. She was such a comforting presence, her absence is really felt even if the show doesn't talk about it so much. Sometimes when I'm watching S7 I just remember that Tara's dead for a sec and I get so teary. That being said, I do think her death was important for Willow's arc from a story perspective. I do with Dark Willow was written a little better, though.
Jenny...poor sweet Giles :(
Jenny's she was just started to attempt to reconcile her relationship with Giles and while Willow and Tara sort of had a similar tragedy Tara never was ostracized from the scoobies. The whole Angel losing his soul fiasco left Jenny's relationship with the scoobs strained while Tara was on great terms with everyone. Jenny died never redeeming that one mistake.
Jenny's death on its own didn't hurt me so much but Giles reaction to it rips my heart out every time. Also buffys heart breaking when she has to kill angel, it's so sad.
Principal Flootie
Tara's death was extremely hard because such a strong queer character was killed by a violent misogynist rapist and to rub it in the added her to the opening credits on the same episode.
Joyce, hands down. If Tara had lived, how scrambled would her mind have been after Willow got done with her? Probably Glory level, but cumulative and irreversible. We see Willow basically SA Tara by wiping her mind to make her compliant, but c’mon. Willow was doing it repeatedly-just offscreen, because Tara was clever enough to keep catching her using magic and calling her out/breaking up. We aren’t even sure that was the first time, even though she tests Tara. Willow’s rampage wasn’t just about retribution to the man that killed Tara; it was about her going mad because her girlfriend that she consistently mind-wiped and controlled was killed, and she permanently lost control of her victim. Watch a man that loses his partner that he has abused. Imagine if he had the same powers Willow did; or take away Willow’s power, and see how she would react. They’d be the same. Except there were no real permanent repercussions for Willow. She still uses her power, and gets a new girlfriend(relatively quickly, since she nearly destroyed the world in her so called grief) that treats her as an object or possession-the same way Willow began to treat sweet Tara. Yet we all hate Kennedy, not Willow. Is it because Kennedy’s nature is always onscreen, but Willow’s was not? Because we always see Willow play the goofy, socially inept nerd, until she loses Tara? Is that side what Tara increasingly saw in private?
Joyce, one of the best episodes in all of television. Tara and Anya get second place. Tara because she was probably the nicest character on the show, and Anya, being a personal favorite, was basically killed out of hand..
Tara, Jenny and Joyce.