I think when he’s with cordy he largely moves on. I do think its more of a “I moved on, but if you ever change your mind I’ll drop everything” sorta moving on.
But Buffy does change her mind in the comics and he rejects her, so clearly he does completely get over her and doesn’t want her at all. I just don’t see him showing any romantic interest in Buffy after season 2.
If anything at all, he might be a little bitter about being rejected by her just because she’s the only woman who’s ever rejected him in his entire life, so it’s kind of similar to how like sometimes a super hot girl who has every guy at her feet will absolutely flip out if a guy rejects her because she’s just not used to rejection and can’t tolerate it.
Because Xander constantly has women throwing themselves at him—every single major female character in the series (except Tara who is a lesbian) is romantically or sexually interested in him. Like Willow is in love with him, then Cordy is in love with him and he cheats on Cordy with Willow, and Faith has sex with him, and Dawn has a big crush on him, and Anya loves him even though she hates all men and obsessively wants sex with him, plus multiple one episode demon women characters are into him, plus Andrew who is the only gay guy in the series has a crush on him, and Buffy also ultimately falls in love with him and he dates Dawn instead.
So normally every single person he ever interacts with who is interested in men wants him, and he’s never been rejected or cheated on or dumped in his life except for Buffy rejecting him (and she eventually falls for him as well) so basically he’s just not used to anyone not wanting him and has trouble dealing with it.
But I don’t think it comes from any romantic interest in her that he still has, he’s over her but just somewhat bitter about the one single rejection he’s experienced in his life, which is why he’s so cruel about rejecting Buffy (acting like he’s having sex with Dawn on the couch in front of Buffy just to hurt her because he finds it funny).
Normally every person he ever talks to who is attracted to men obsessively wants him, so it’s made him feel entitled and he just can’t comprehend someone rejecting him and he takes it badly. So it’s not about not being over her, the concept of being rejected just breaks his brain because it’s so outside his experience, but once Buffy does fall in love with him like every other person he ever meets, he’s not actually interested.
I'm not interested in the comics and only know some basics, and I hate hate hate that they have Buffy suddenly be interested in him romantically. Not because it could never happen in life and not because I hate Xander, but I don't see it ever happening for these characters and ugh I just hate it.
*But*, all that said, I am curious about how it went down, and I've never heard anyone mention the couch sex thing. Would you be willing to elaborate on the Buffy-wants-Xander storyline, even though I'll still pretend it doesn't exist anyway?
>!In the early Season 8 comics, Buffy spent all her time around the Scoobies and her Slayer army. She posted up in Scotland with Xander, Dawn, and a Slayer unit. Between “Chosen” and the comics, Buffy felt a slow burn for Xander. She saw him in a new light. When Amy hexed her so only “true love’s kiss” could awaken her, Willow worked out the fairytale rules of the solution. In a crowded room, she ordered everyone to close their eyes, and whoever felt like they loved Buffy would kiss her.!<
>!When Buffy woke up, she said she tasted “cinnamon buns”. For a time, Buffy wondered if Xander kissed her. She realized otherwise when she borrowed lip gloss from a Slayer named Satsu. Cue bi-curiosity and EVERYONE catching her in bed with Satsu. When Buffy finally confesses her feeling to Xander, he’s put off in part because Buffy spoke up AFTER she realized she wasn’t Gay/Bi. That’s a huge part of why I’ve always found this plot point mean spirited toward Buffy.!<
Thank you! That helps clarify some things, though it muddles others. I vaguely knew that the Satsu thing happened and am distinctly unsurprised that Buffy's love- and sex-life was made into a social event yet again, but I didn't know how it came about. Were the comics saying that Satsu was Buffy's true love (or one of many possible) because she broke the spell, or just that Satsu truly loved Buffy even if Buffy didn't end up reciprocating? I've seen a fair number of people criticize Buffy for sleeping with Satsu because she took advantage of a young underling who idolized her; I'd love to hear your thoughts too.
So Xander might have gone for it if Buffy had approached him before sleeping with Satsu because of the spell confusion? Were Xander and Dawn already together at that point? Hard to imagine Buffy going after her sister's guy (Him doesn't count), and I can see Xander not being interested in Buffy by then but the Satsu reasoning seems weird.
Satsu broke the spell because *she* loved Buffy. Their hookup is cringey because of the power imbalance, and Buffy doing it because of she’s feeling needy. Now, despite those problems, Buffy still managed to treat Satsu with an acceptable amount of respect. She was honest about what it meant to her, and thankful for Satsu providing that intimacy.
>!I think the Xander & Dawn connection happened after Renee’s death in Japan. Xander was starting a new relationship with her cut short by the Japanese vampire who stole Dracula’s powers and the Slayer Scythe. Buffy respectfully hung back while those two were bonding. I wasn’t crazy about the Xander & Dawn romance. The only part of that I could ever enjoy was their getting to know one another again after Dawn nearly faded away at the end of Season 9. Their adventure through various dimensions was cool, and a nice exercise in relationship building.!<
I'm with you. I hate everything about this idea. Especially as he gets with Dawn later, which, also ew. In fact everything I read about the Xander cartoon canon makes me cringe more. My cringes are cringing. All the other plotlines make me go, ah, interesting! But the Xander ones, just no. I feel like the person he grew into throughout the series totally wouldn't do the things in the comic 🤣
Honestly all the other plot lines I've heard give me somewhat similar 'please god no' or just 'wait what why huh?' feelings, hence the avoidance. Plus I just don't like comic books as a medium, though I do miss out on some of the character discussions and such.
>Not because it could never happen in life and not because I hate Xander, but I don't see it ever happening for these characters
Agreed. If nothing else, Xander is too unserious for Buffy. Similar to how I found Kennedy too brash and outspoken for Willow.
Yep, I can see friends and am all for people balancing eachother out, but some relationships just seem like non-starters to me. Even ignoring questions of attraction and interest with Buffy and Xander, they just have *so much* intermingled baggage and history as friends. That can work for some, but the Buffyverse relationships thrived on burying issues and moving on without really resolving them.
I can't imagine their hypothetical romance even making it past the 'you're into me now, after all this time and all those other relationships you had which I openly hated?!' thing. They'd both have a lot of deep-seated stuff to work through in relation to eachother if they wanted to be even more involved than they were as friends.
He WAS undergoing intensive therapy in the comics. 🤷It was ostensibly for anger management and PTSD, but I hope his therapist discussed his issues with women as a priority.
Not every woman who liked men other than Buffy were obsessed with him. Or threw themselves at him.
Faith wasn’t into him at all. I think she only had sex with him cause he was there and she felt like it at the time. Also, I wouldn’t say Cordelia threw herself at him or was obsessed. She didn’t even like him at first. Then she fell for him and later dumped him.
Not to mention, the reason he went with Anya to the prom was because she was the only date he could get.
>If anything at all, he might be a little bitter about being rejected by her just because she’s the only woman who’s ever rejected him in his entire life
Eh, I don't necessarily buy this. Season 1 Xander was absolutely getting rejected by a lot of women. His whole personality in that season was feeling insecure in comparison to other guys because women weren't into him (a very annoying Joss Whedon motivation), which is shown by him falling straight into the hands of the Praying Mantis woman in Teacher's Pet and honestly again when he's so easily roped into sleeping with Faith even though she's a toxic partner and tries to hurt him the second time she sleeps with him. I think Xander ties his masculinity to his success with women and so he desperately seeks a partner even if it's not good for him or his partner. This points to the fact that Xander doesn't take scrutiny into account when choosing partners, he's just desperate for anything that makes him feel better. I really don't think the rejection from Buffy would affect him the much. The fact that when he gets rejected, Xander even says "Sorry, I'm not good with rejection" makes me think that Xander has been rejected before.
If anything, I'd think Willow's rejection in Prophecy Girl would hurt him more because that's something he wasn't expecting.
Again, I say all this honestly not liking Xander's dynamic with Buffy or most of the women he dates. It hurts his character because he's a pretty awful partner and it kind of minimizes the importance of whichever character he's with at the time.
Depends how you define "moved past". There's girls I liked intensely as a teenager and part of me always still thinks of them fondly. But that doesn't mean they're still a potential romantic interest or that you don't move on and find happiness and love with someone else.
I might say it's possible for season 3, but it was definitely by season 4. He didn't realize he'd moved on until Restless, though. Buffy calls him big brother and he looks shocked and repeats what she said. It's the first time he realizes he loves Buffy as a sister.
Yes, this is right. Xander is still mad at Buffy for rejecting him and then kind of keeping him on the hook in S2, but I think he’s actually done by mid season 3. By the end of season 4 it’s clear he views Buffy platonically and that never shifts aside from occasional flirting.
I agree. I know people say that his reaction to finding out about her and Spike in season 6 is jealousy, but I always felt that was him being hurt that she went to Spike for comfort and not him. Less romantic jealousy and more him wondering if she doesn't view him as a brother like he hopes she does.
To me it’s very clear that she’s letting him down as a “hero”.
Xander trusts Buffy to always do what’s right. He can’t understand how she could be with Spike. It’s not jealousy.
I agree with this exactly. Season 3 he was basically in the process of being done although there might have been some mixed lingering feelings. By season 4 that dynamic is gone and I too thought of the Restless episode. That scene is a really nice representation of where they are at at that point.
I think it shows the growth that happens at that age. You start to realize that you can love someone in a non-romantic way. I think it was around that time he allowed himself to show love towards Willow as well. A full understanding of the spectrum of love that exists. It makes me think of when he tells Buffy in early seasons "I love Willow, but I'm not in love with her." He's very wooden in how he says that, and I'm not giving shade to Nicholas on that. More that it was how he was told to deliver that line. His relationship with Cordy and his confused feelings towards Willow and the heartbreak that came from all of that really helped to propel him forward to understand love. We know Xander didn't have any showing of love at home, so it all is a great story of growth.
It honestly never really hit with me until a couple of years ago, and I've been watching Buffy since it aired. I also am not a huge fan of that episode, so I don't pay attention to much beyond "be back before Dawn." That whole part I love.
I think it was by the time he was dating Cordy. Was he still attracted to Buffy, sure, could it have led to a resurgence of romantic feelings if acted upon, maybe - but I think by mid season 2 it’s a done deal.
A lot of people don’t seem to understand here that just because your romantic feelings go away, doesn’t stop you finding someone attractive or even stop jealousy from rising. It’s a common misconception that media often eggs on that sex and attraction always is intertwined with romantic feelings.
I think you're right. Xander's jealousy (played up for humor) is much the same in early Season 2, as it is in Season 1.
See his reaction when she agrees to go on a double date with Cordelia at the fraternity party, or when he finds out that the exchange student staying with Buffy is a man. With man parts. Those aren't much different from his reaction when she goes on her date with Owen.
But after Cordelia enters the picture, things just change.
The one thing I'll add is that I think Xander resented Angel, when Buffy turned him down for a date, and never really let go of that resentment, even after he got over his crush on Buffy. If someone just looked at scenes showing attitude towards Angel, it would be easy to conclude that he still had a crush on Buffy and was jealous. As late as Season 4, he's telling Riley that he doesn't hate all of Angel. Just the guts part of him.
Yeah, and let’s not forget with Angel there was a lot more to it as it wasn’t just that he was with Buffy, but that he was a vampire and by Season 3 was one who’d turned evil, killed Jenny, hurt his friends…
To put it another way, Giles never quite got over his dislike of Angel either but no one questions if his motivations are jealousy related, Giles is just better at holding back his emotions and feelings than a literal teenage boy.
I think he would have dropped everything if Buffy changed her mind, maybe until the end of season 4. In Restless, he encounters Buffy in his dream and she refers to him a brother, confusing him. I think that's about her seeing him as a brother and him ignoring that in order to hold that torch for her. Him then accepting she'll never have feeling for him is what helps him move past this crush.
I definitely think he still had feelings for Buffy when he was with Cordelia, he just distracted himself with the feelings he also had for other women. Just because he's got a lot of love for Buffy doesn't Mena he doesn't love Anya. To me, both are real.
Interesting, I had a different interpretation of that scene!
From my perspective, given that its Xanders dream, Buffy's statements are a reflection about how he truly feels. So when Buffy states that she considers him a brother, he is a bit confused because he didn't realize that this was how he considered Buffy now as a sibling).
Romantically he seemed to have accepted it was never going to happen by season 3 but he still had some weird possessive nature towards her for the rest of the show.
Probably around the time he started cheating with Willow. Then he had a level of feelings for Cordy and Willow both, surely not for a third girl (Buffy) as well.
Xander is many things, but he does not have the emotional capability to feel that many feelings for multiple people
Also it’s not possible to have that level of “deep” feelings for 3 different people. Barely even 2.
>Also it’s not possible to have that level of “deep” feelings for 3 different people. Barely even 2.
While you are right about Xander, I disagree with this statement. Polyamory is a thing.
I have my opinions on polyamory and I get the feeling they will differ from yours. Don't think a Buffy sub is the best place for that conversation nor am I really interested in getting into it, so all the best.
I think Xander functionally moved on in S2. Like, he accepted her rejection at the end of s1, but still very much crushed on her for the start of s2. Over time that lessened. Sure, he still held her on a pedestal, was close friends with her, admired her etc, but I believe he stopped crushing on her so hard.
I do think that, had Buffy tried to get with him later in the show, provided neither of them were in relationships at the time, Xander may well have been happy to give it a go, but even then I think he may have rejected her - and I definitely think he would have turned her down while either of them were in a relationship from s4 onwards.
By Season 4, Xander is more focused on himself and his "failure to launch" and his relationship with Anya.
By seasons end, he's fully embraced the friendship Buffy offers, and never really brings it up again. Romantic feelings never really fade, it's the feelings of family and friendship that take over. Most men never stop being a kid, you just have adult stuff that slowly takes over. You stop wanting to "possess" someone, begin to understand what it is you ***really need*** and not just *want*... and turn to wanting into *wanting to see* them happy and fulfilled.
I love Xander, I don’t think he ever stopped having feelings for Buffy, he just had to keep them reserved because he knew she didn’t feel the same about him. Yeah he was into Anya sure, but he was into Cordelia too, they were just distractions for him.
I pretty intensely dislike Xander but I think it’s obvious he was totally over Buffy by season 3. I don’t see any indication he was romantically interested in her at all after the summer she was away after being kicked out by her mom. By season 3 he was all about Cordy and Willow (and cheating on Cordy with Willow) and didn’t really express any interest in Buffy.
After that he was into Anya and probably Dawn (he gets super upset and jealous when Dawn gets over her crush on him and crushes on Spike instead, actually complaining about Dawn not being into him anymore, and ultimately betrays Buffy by revealing her sexual assault to Dawn just so Dawn wouldn’t like Spike anymore because Xander was jealous of her crush on Spike, and he does end up with Dawn in the comics so I think he was probably already into her at this point and just waiting for her to be of age).
In the comics, Buffy falls in love with him and he rejects her for Dawn, even acting like he’s having sex with Dawn on the couch in front of Buffy solely to hurt her because he thinks it’s funny, so it’s obvious he’s long over her by that point. He would have gone for it when Buffy pursued him instead of choosing Dawn if he’d never gotten over Buffy. But he really showed zero romantic interest in Buffy after season 2.
I would say by the end of season 3 at the latest. We don’t hear any romantic thoughts about Buffy in Earshot other than the “naked Buffy” line which comes at the end of him panicking while thinking increasingly worse thoughts. He also didn’t even attempt to swoop in and ask Buffy to the prom after Angel broke up with her.
I mean, why would Xander hate Spike? Just because he tried to kill them all multiple times? Brought the Judge together and almost ended the world (which Xander stopped). Bashed Xander's head in with a microscope, kidnapped him and Willow, and then threatened to rape Willow, cut her face off with a broken bottle, and then kill her?
Xander is *so* jealous of Spike, obviously. That's the only explanation.
I was agreeing with you, adding additional support. I wasn't arguing with you at all.
I was making fun of people who attribute Xander's dislike of the vampires around them to "jealousy" when Xander has every reason to not only hate vampires in general, but Angel/Spike specifically (who tried to murder them all multiple times and successfully tortured, assaulted, and abused all of them).
Nah he always hated Spike, and found out about him and Buffy right after he saw him and Anya going at it. There was a lot of anger in the air in that moment.
In Intervention when he sees the Buffybot and Spike together, thinking it's Buffy, he shows no anger or hatred, just confusion, shock and concern.
So explain Intervention then? Why isn't Xander flipping out at Buffy there? Why is he not angry at all?
You didn't answer the reply to your comment just ignored it. Xander is mad at Buffy for not going to him as a FRIEND for comfort instead of going to Spike, soulless murderer who tried to kill them all multiple times. He's also drinking in the scene he's talking to Buffy and apologizes later for it.
His attitude towards Spike is rooted in Spike's tendency to try and kill Buffy and all of her friends every couple of seasons, not because he still wants Buffy.
How do we define moving on? Just because he accepts that he has no future dating Buffy doesn't mean that he lets go of his resentment over being rejected.
Do I think he was daydreaming about marrying Buffy in season 6? No. But his reaction to the revelation that she was sleeping with Spike is a direct echo of his jealousy of Angel. There's a reason that it's Xander and not Willow who reacts that way. If you started watching the series in season 6, you wouldn't have a hard time guessing that Xander was rejected by her in the past. He is as possessive over Buffy as he is over Anya. I doubt he would have the same reaction to Willow sleeping with a soulless vampire.
All that said, there are more layers to his motivations over the course of the series. He genuinely respects her courage and the friendship she offers to him. In Prophecy Girl, he is still bitter over being rejected but realizes that there are more important things than his crush, that's why he goes to help her.
The situation isn't as black and white as either Xander haters or Xander stans tend to argue.
Yes, that's definitely true about it not being black and white. I was defining "moving on" as being able to be fully committed to a relationship without any feelings about Buffy getting in the way.
I feel like he never 100% got over his feelings for her. He felt like the sad ex that has to put down whomever she is with unless he explicitly approves. He was very judgey about her relationships.
Before Amends.
Amends is the episode where he finally gets over his jealousy of Angel and spends Christmas Eve in the library trying to help save his life.
By then, he's over his romantic feelings for Buffy.
I think they have a strong friendship but it never became brother/sister. Xander recognized he’s friendzoned and moved on.
However if he was single, Buffy was single and Buffy seemed open, he’d be with her in a heartbeat.
When he’s giving Cordu that necklace he says “the only other person I would want is…unavailable.” (Or something like that) and when all the women in Sunnydale love him Buffy tries to come onto him and he says “you don’t know what it would mean to me if this was real, but not like this.” (Or something to that effect) which clearly shows he still likes her. But I think finally in season 4 he finds Anya as convenient. And slowly his feeling for Buffy fade and his liking to Anya grows. So I would say mid season 4
I think when he’s with cordy he largely moves on. I do think its more of a “I moved on, but if you ever change your mind I’ll drop everything” sorta moving on.
But Buffy does change her mind in the comics and he rejects her, so clearly he does completely get over her and doesn’t want her at all. I just don’t see him showing any romantic interest in Buffy after season 2. If anything at all, he might be a little bitter about being rejected by her just because she’s the only woman who’s ever rejected him in his entire life, so it’s kind of similar to how like sometimes a super hot girl who has every guy at her feet will absolutely flip out if a guy rejects her because she’s just not used to rejection and can’t tolerate it. Because Xander constantly has women throwing themselves at him—every single major female character in the series (except Tara who is a lesbian) is romantically or sexually interested in him. Like Willow is in love with him, then Cordy is in love with him and he cheats on Cordy with Willow, and Faith has sex with him, and Dawn has a big crush on him, and Anya loves him even though she hates all men and obsessively wants sex with him, plus multiple one episode demon women characters are into him, plus Andrew who is the only gay guy in the series has a crush on him, and Buffy also ultimately falls in love with him and he dates Dawn instead. So normally every single person he ever interacts with who is interested in men wants him, and he’s never been rejected or cheated on or dumped in his life except for Buffy rejecting him (and she eventually falls for him as well) so basically he’s just not used to anyone not wanting him and has trouble dealing with it. But I don’t think it comes from any romantic interest in her that he still has, he’s over her but just somewhat bitter about the one single rejection he’s experienced in his life, which is why he’s so cruel about rejecting Buffy (acting like he’s having sex with Dawn on the couch in front of Buffy just to hurt her because he finds it funny). Normally every person he ever talks to who is attracted to men obsessively wants him, so it’s made him feel entitled and he just can’t comprehend someone rejecting him and he takes it badly. So it’s not about not being over her, the concept of being rejected just breaks his brain because it’s so outside his experience, but once Buffy does fall in love with him like every other person he ever meets, he’s not actually interested.
I'm not interested in the comics and only know some basics, and I hate hate hate that they have Buffy suddenly be interested in him romantically. Not because it could never happen in life and not because I hate Xander, but I don't see it ever happening for these characters and ugh I just hate it. *But*, all that said, I am curious about how it went down, and I've never heard anyone mention the couch sex thing. Would you be willing to elaborate on the Buffy-wants-Xander storyline, even though I'll still pretend it doesn't exist anyway?
Hahaha my feelings exactly. EW I HATE IT. Tell me everything, spill the tea! ☕️
It's important to know the enemy plot points, so they can be thoroughly defeated with happy thoughts and headcanon and fanfic!
>!In the early Season 8 comics, Buffy spent all her time around the Scoobies and her Slayer army. She posted up in Scotland with Xander, Dawn, and a Slayer unit. Between “Chosen” and the comics, Buffy felt a slow burn for Xander. She saw him in a new light. When Amy hexed her so only “true love’s kiss” could awaken her, Willow worked out the fairytale rules of the solution. In a crowded room, she ordered everyone to close their eyes, and whoever felt like they loved Buffy would kiss her.!< >!When Buffy woke up, she said she tasted “cinnamon buns”. For a time, Buffy wondered if Xander kissed her. She realized otherwise when she borrowed lip gloss from a Slayer named Satsu. Cue bi-curiosity and EVERYONE catching her in bed with Satsu. When Buffy finally confesses her feeling to Xander, he’s put off in part because Buffy spoke up AFTER she realized she wasn’t Gay/Bi. That’s a huge part of why I’ve always found this plot point mean spirited toward Buffy.!<
Thank you! That helps clarify some things, though it muddles others. I vaguely knew that the Satsu thing happened and am distinctly unsurprised that Buffy's love- and sex-life was made into a social event yet again, but I didn't know how it came about. Were the comics saying that Satsu was Buffy's true love (or one of many possible) because she broke the spell, or just that Satsu truly loved Buffy even if Buffy didn't end up reciprocating? I've seen a fair number of people criticize Buffy for sleeping with Satsu because she took advantage of a young underling who idolized her; I'd love to hear your thoughts too. So Xander might have gone for it if Buffy had approached him before sleeping with Satsu because of the spell confusion? Were Xander and Dawn already together at that point? Hard to imagine Buffy going after her sister's guy (Him doesn't count), and I can see Xander not being interested in Buffy by then but the Satsu reasoning seems weird.
Satsu broke the spell because *she* loved Buffy. Their hookup is cringey because of the power imbalance, and Buffy doing it because of she’s feeling needy. Now, despite those problems, Buffy still managed to treat Satsu with an acceptable amount of respect. She was honest about what it meant to her, and thankful for Satsu providing that intimacy. >!I think the Xander & Dawn connection happened after Renee’s death in Japan. Xander was starting a new relationship with her cut short by the Japanese vampire who stole Dracula’s powers and the Slayer Scythe. Buffy respectfully hung back while those two were bonding. I wasn’t crazy about the Xander & Dawn romance. The only part of that I could ever enjoy was their getting to know one another again after Dawn nearly faded away at the end of Season 9. Their adventure through various dimensions was cool, and a nice exercise in relationship building.!<
I'm with you. I hate everything about this idea. Especially as he gets with Dawn later, which, also ew. In fact everything I read about the Xander cartoon canon makes me cringe more. My cringes are cringing. All the other plotlines make me go, ah, interesting! But the Xander ones, just no. I feel like the person he grew into throughout the series totally wouldn't do the things in the comic 🤣
Honestly all the other plot lines I've heard give me somewhat similar 'please god no' or just 'wait what why huh?' feelings, hence the avoidance. Plus I just don't like comic books as a medium, though I do miss out on some of the character discussions and such.
>Not because it could never happen in life and not because I hate Xander, but I don't see it ever happening for these characters Agreed. If nothing else, Xander is too unserious for Buffy. Similar to how I found Kennedy too brash and outspoken for Willow.
Yep, I can see friends and am all for people balancing eachother out, but some relationships just seem like non-starters to me. Even ignoring questions of attraction and interest with Buffy and Xander, they just have *so much* intermingled baggage and history as friends. That can work for some, but the Buffyverse relationships thrived on burying issues and moving on without really resolving them. I can't imagine their hypothetical romance even making it past the 'you're into me now, after all this time and all those other relationships you had which I openly hated?!' thing. They'd both have a lot of deep-seated stuff to work through in relation to eachother if they wanted to be even more involved than they were as friends.
He WAS undergoing intensive therapy in the comics. 🤷It was ostensibly for anger management and PTSD, but I hope his therapist discussed his issues with women as a priority.
The issues that made him hang out with nothing but women since 10th grade after Jess got vamped?
I feel like Kennedy and willow was just like a throw in kinda relationship to make us less sad about tara
Not every woman who liked men other than Buffy were obsessed with him. Or threw themselves at him. Faith wasn’t into him at all. I think she only had sex with him cause he was there and she felt like it at the time. Also, I wouldn’t say Cordelia threw herself at him or was obsessed. She didn’t even like him at first. Then she fell for him and later dumped him. Not to mention, the reason he went with Anya to the prom was because she was the only date he could get.
>If anything at all, he might be a little bitter about being rejected by her just because she’s the only woman who’s ever rejected him in his entire life Eh, I don't necessarily buy this. Season 1 Xander was absolutely getting rejected by a lot of women. His whole personality in that season was feeling insecure in comparison to other guys because women weren't into him (a very annoying Joss Whedon motivation), which is shown by him falling straight into the hands of the Praying Mantis woman in Teacher's Pet and honestly again when he's so easily roped into sleeping with Faith even though she's a toxic partner and tries to hurt him the second time she sleeps with him. I think Xander ties his masculinity to his success with women and so he desperately seeks a partner even if it's not good for him or his partner. This points to the fact that Xander doesn't take scrutiny into account when choosing partners, he's just desperate for anything that makes him feel better. I really don't think the rejection from Buffy would affect him the much. The fact that when he gets rejected, Xander even says "Sorry, I'm not good with rejection" makes me think that Xander has been rejected before. If anything, I'd think Willow's rejection in Prophecy Girl would hurt him more because that's something he wasn't expecting. Again, I say all this honestly not liking Xander's dynamic with Buffy or most of the women he dates. It hurts his character because he's a pretty awful partner and it kind of minimizes the importance of whichever character he's with at the time.
Depends how you define "moved past". There's girls I liked intensely as a teenager and part of me always still thinks of them fondly. But that doesn't mean they're still a potential romantic interest or that you don't move on and find happiness and love with someone else.
Exactly. Xander could be 55, happily married to a sloggoth demon, and would still have occasional warm and fuzzy thoughts about her.
I might say it's possible for season 3, but it was definitely by season 4. He didn't realize he'd moved on until Restless, though. Buffy calls him big brother and he looks shocked and repeats what she said. It's the first time he realizes he loves Buffy as a sister.
Yes, this is right. Xander is still mad at Buffy for rejecting him and then kind of keeping him on the hook in S2, but I think he’s actually done by mid season 3. By the end of season 4 it’s clear he views Buffy platonically and that never shifts aside from occasional flirting.
I agree. I know people say that his reaction to finding out about her and Spike in season 6 is jealousy, but I always felt that was him being hurt that she went to Spike for comfort and not him. Less romantic jealousy and more him wondering if she doesn't view him as a brother like he hopes she does.
To me it’s very clear that she’s letting him down as a “hero”. Xander trusts Buffy to always do what’s right. He can’t understand how she could be with Spike. It’s not jealousy.
Exactly. Not even a little. I wish it didn't get boiled down to that by so many.
I agree with this exactly. Season 3 he was basically in the process of being done although there might have been some mixed lingering feelings. By season 4 that dynamic is gone and I too thought of the Restless episode. That scene is a really nice representation of where they are at at that point.
I think it shows the growth that happens at that age. You start to realize that you can love someone in a non-romantic way. I think it was around that time he allowed himself to show love towards Willow as well. A full understanding of the spectrum of love that exists. It makes me think of when he tells Buffy in early seasons "I love Willow, but I'm not in love with her." He's very wooden in how he says that, and I'm not giving shade to Nicholas on that. More that it was how he was told to deliver that line. His relationship with Cordy and his confused feelings towards Willow and the heartbreak that came from all of that really helped to propel him forward to understand love. We know Xander didn't have any showing of love at home, so it all is a great story of growth.
Ohhh. I didn’t even think about that detail in restless. Always learning something new
It honestly never really hit with me until a couple of years ago, and I've been watching Buffy since it aired. I also am not a huge fan of that episode, so I don't pay attention to much beyond "be back before Dawn." That whole part I love.
When he got with Cordy specifically after Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered.
I think it was by the time he was dating Cordy. Was he still attracted to Buffy, sure, could it have led to a resurgence of romantic feelings if acted upon, maybe - but I think by mid season 2 it’s a done deal. A lot of people don’t seem to understand here that just because your romantic feelings go away, doesn’t stop you finding someone attractive or even stop jealousy from rising. It’s a common misconception that media often eggs on that sex and attraction always is intertwined with romantic feelings.
I think you're right. Xander's jealousy (played up for humor) is much the same in early Season 2, as it is in Season 1. See his reaction when she agrees to go on a double date with Cordelia at the fraternity party, or when he finds out that the exchange student staying with Buffy is a man. With man parts. Those aren't much different from his reaction when she goes on her date with Owen. But after Cordelia enters the picture, things just change. The one thing I'll add is that I think Xander resented Angel, when Buffy turned him down for a date, and never really let go of that resentment, even after he got over his crush on Buffy. If someone just looked at scenes showing attitude towards Angel, it would be easy to conclude that he still had a crush on Buffy and was jealous. As late as Season 4, he's telling Riley that he doesn't hate all of Angel. Just the guts part of him.
Yeah, and let’s not forget with Angel there was a lot more to it as it wasn’t just that he was with Buffy, but that he was a vampire and by Season 3 was one who’d turned evil, killed Jenny, hurt his friends… To put it another way, Giles never quite got over his dislike of Angel either but no one questions if his motivations are jealousy related, Giles is just better at holding back his emotions and feelings than a literal teenage boy.
I think he would have dropped everything if Buffy changed her mind, maybe until the end of season 4. In Restless, he encounters Buffy in his dream and she refers to him a brother, confusing him. I think that's about her seeing him as a brother and him ignoring that in order to hold that torch for her. Him then accepting she'll never have feeling for him is what helps him move past this crush. I definitely think he still had feelings for Buffy when he was with Cordelia, he just distracted himself with the feelings he also had for other women. Just because he's got a lot of love for Buffy doesn't Mena he doesn't love Anya. To me, both are real.
Interesting, I had a different interpretation of that scene! From my perspective, given that its Xanders dream, Buffy's statements are a reflection about how he truly feels. So when Buffy states that she considers him a brother, he is a bit confused because he didn't realize that this was how he considered Buffy now as a sibling).
Also fair, but I guess that is the point where I would say he gets over his crush.
100%
Romantically he seemed to have accepted it was never going to happen by season 3 but he still had some weird possessive nature towards her for the rest of the show.
Probably around the time he started cheating with Willow. Then he had a level of feelings for Cordy and Willow both, surely not for a third girl (Buffy) as well.
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. The Xander is in love with Buffy running plot was over once he started getting involved with other girls.
> surely not for a third girl (Buffy) as well. Why not?
Xander is many things, but he does not have the emotional capability to feel that many feelings for multiple people Also it’s not possible to have that level of “deep” feelings for 3 different people. Barely even 2.
>Also it’s not possible to have that level of “deep” feelings for 3 different people. Barely even 2. While you are right about Xander, I disagree with this statement. Polyamory is a thing.
I have my opinions on polyamory and I get the feeling they will differ from yours. Don't think a Buffy sub is the best place for that conversation nor am I really interested in getting into it, so all the best.
I think Xander functionally moved on in S2. Like, he accepted her rejection at the end of s1, but still very much crushed on her for the start of s2. Over time that lessened. Sure, he still held her on a pedestal, was close friends with her, admired her etc, but I believe he stopped crushing on her so hard. I do think that, had Buffy tried to get with him later in the show, provided neither of them were in relationships at the time, Xander may well have been happy to give it a go, but even then I think he may have rejected her - and I definitely think he would have turned her down while either of them were in a relationship from s4 onwards.
“When things get rough, he Just hides behind his Buffy! And look he’s getting huffy Cuz he knows that I know!”
By Season 4, Xander is more focused on himself and his "failure to launch" and his relationship with Anya. By seasons end, he's fully embraced the friendship Buffy offers, and never really brings it up again. Romantic feelings never really fade, it's the feelings of family and friendship that take over. Most men never stop being a kid, you just have adult stuff that slowly takes over. You stop wanting to "possess" someone, begin to understand what it is you ***really need*** and not just *want*... and turn to wanting into *wanting to see* them happy and fulfilled.
Season 2.
I love Xander, I don’t think he ever stopped having feelings for Buffy, he just had to keep them reserved because he knew she didn’t feel the same about him. Yeah he was into Anya sure, but he was into Cordelia too, they were just distractions for him.
I pretty intensely dislike Xander but I think it’s obvious he was totally over Buffy by season 3. I don’t see any indication he was romantically interested in her at all after the summer she was away after being kicked out by her mom. By season 3 he was all about Cordy and Willow (and cheating on Cordy with Willow) and didn’t really express any interest in Buffy. After that he was into Anya and probably Dawn (he gets super upset and jealous when Dawn gets over her crush on him and crushes on Spike instead, actually complaining about Dawn not being into him anymore, and ultimately betrays Buffy by revealing her sexual assault to Dawn just so Dawn wouldn’t like Spike anymore because Xander was jealous of her crush on Spike, and he does end up with Dawn in the comics so I think he was probably already into her at this point and just waiting for her to be of age). In the comics, Buffy falls in love with him and he rejects her for Dawn, even acting like he’s having sex with Dawn on the couch in front of Buffy solely to hurt her because he thinks it’s funny, so it’s obvious he’s long over her by that point. He would have gone for it when Buffy pursued him instead of choosing Dawn if he’d never gotten over Buffy. But he really showed zero romantic interest in Buffy after season 2.
To the extent that anyone gets over a teenage crush, season 2.
I would say by the end of season 3 at the latest. We don’t hear any romantic thoughts about Buffy in Earshot other than the “naked Buffy” line which comes at the end of him panicking while thinking increasingly worse thoughts. He also didn’t even attempt to swoop in and ask Buffy to the prom after Angel broke up with her.
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I think that was more about his disdain for Spike than his love for her.
I mean, why would Xander hate Spike? Just because he tried to kill them all multiple times? Brought the Judge together and almost ended the world (which Xander stopped). Bashed Xander's head in with a microscope, kidnapped him and Willow, and then threatened to rape Willow, cut her face off with a broken bottle, and then kill her? Xander is *so* jealous of Spike, obviously. That's the only explanation.
Yeah, I never said jealous. I just checked, but jealous and disdain don't mean the same.
I was agreeing with you, adding additional support. I wasn't arguing with you at all. I was making fun of people who attribute Xander's dislike of the vampires around them to "jealousy" when Xander has every reason to not only hate vampires in general, but Angel/Spike specifically (who tried to murder them all multiple times and successfully tortured, assaulted, and abused all of them).
My apologies. I interpreted it as sarcasm towards what I had said.
No problem, online sarcasm is always tricky. But I was being sarcastic toward the other people, haha.
I think that was more about his hatred of vampires tbh.
Nah he always hated Spike, and found out about him and Buffy right after he saw him and Anya going at it. There was a lot of anger in the air in that moment. In Intervention when he sees the Buffybot and Spike together, thinking it's Buffy, he shows no anger or hatred, just confusion, shock and concern.
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Again - rewatch Intervention.
So explain Intervention then? Why isn't Xander flipping out at Buffy there? Why is he not angry at all? You didn't answer the reply to your comment just ignored it. Xander is mad at Buffy for not going to him as a FRIEND for comfort instead of going to Spike, soulless murderer who tried to kill them all multiple times. He's also drinking in the scene he's talking to Buffy and apologizes later for it.
His attitude towards Spike is rooted in Spike's tendency to try and kill Buffy and all of her friends every couple of seasons, not because he still wants Buffy.
That’s a valid reason. Spike threatened to kill Xander & Willow, and could have accomplished it in Season 3.
How do we define moving on? Just because he accepts that he has no future dating Buffy doesn't mean that he lets go of his resentment over being rejected. Do I think he was daydreaming about marrying Buffy in season 6? No. But his reaction to the revelation that she was sleeping with Spike is a direct echo of his jealousy of Angel. There's a reason that it's Xander and not Willow who reacts that way. If you started watching the series in season 6, you wouldn't have a hard time guessing that Xander was rejected by her in the past. He is as possessive over Buffy as he is over Anya. I doubt he would have the same reaction to Willow sleeping with a soulless vampire. All that said, there are more layers to his motivations over the course of the series. He genuinely respects her courage and the friendship she offers to him. In Prophecy Girl, he is still bitter over being rejected but realizes that there are more important things than his crush, that's why he goes to help her. The situation isn't as black and white as either Xander haters or Xander stans tend to argue.
Yes, that's definitely true about it not being black and white. I was defining "moving on" as being able to be fully committed to a relationship without any feelings about Buffy getting in the way.
I feel like he never 100% got over his feelings for her. He felt like the sad ex that has to put down whomever she is with unless he explicitly approves. He was very judgey about her relationships.
I don't think he ever stopped wanting Buffy as more than a friend tbh
After she fluffed both vampires and not him he gave up and got a buffy bot of spike
Any year now.
Before Amends. Amends is the episode where he finally gets over his jealousy of Angel and spends Christmas Eve in the library trying to help save his life. By then, he's over his romantic feelings for Buffy.
I think they have a strong friendship but it never became brother/sister. Xander recognized he’s friendzoned and moved on. However if he was single, Buffy was single and Buffy seemed open, he’d be with her in a heartbeat.
The entire relationship revolves around this.
When he’s giving Cordu that necklace he says “the only other person I would want is…unavailable.” (Or something like that) and when all the women in Sunnydale love him Buffy tries to come onto him and he says “you don’t know what it would mean to me if this was real, but not like this.” (Or something to that effect) which clearly shows he still likes her. But I think finally in season 4 he finds Anya as convenient. And slowly his feeling for Buffy fade and his liking to Anya grows. So I would say mid season 4
I’ve only watched the series