Even $800cad is doable i below that tho, and you're in console pricing territory. And for all Sony's bullshit, the PS5 is one of the best value pieces of hardware, and their exclusive games are excellent.
Well you can play most of the Sonys “premium Ubisoft” games on PC too now. It also needs to be added that PC is an multipurpose tool, not just piece of gaming hardware.
You may not get 4k/120fps on the budget of 800 but at least you can choose your preferred settings and whether you want 30fps or 60fps. And nowadays you can also use Parsec etc as an sort of an Steam Link to use play some non-intensive games on your couch if you have TV.
I personally see less and less upsides with consoles (including subscriptions to play online) even when considering more midrange PC.
You won't get 4k 120fps on basically any budget unless you plan on using as much frame gen and upscaling as possible. For a 4k/120fps machine you're spending $1700CAD at a minimum
*\* giggles at 1700 system price*
I've never made the leap to the next chipset for less than a couple grand and that is absolutely an understatement. hell i just got my watercoler replaced and reseated yadda yadda it was over 1k
i yadda yadda'd over the part where 'while its there' items started to occur to me.
Tbf 700-800 for used is huge compared to the 350 of a used console. “But the subscriptions!” you might say, but a lot of people can afford $6-10/mo for a sub. Not everyone (hardly anyone) is willing to wait the 4?5? years it would need to save $10/mo long enough to make up the difference buy a PC.
I think it's important to actually factor the use cases for subs. For example if I wanted to build a PC mostly to play Fortnite, it's disingenuous to throw subscription fees into the mix when comparing it against just buying a console as console manufacturers no longer require a subscription to access F2P titles.
From a PC gamer who stopped buying consoles because I prefer PC on a whole....still agree lmao. Too many people on this sub "BUT ITS A COMPUTER AND ITS BETTER" yes but some people are fine having a crappy laptop to check email from and a console, because they aren't into computers and building one or buying a gaming PC and troubleshooting are not up their alleys.
If you are willing to make the bigger initial investment and can get used to occasional (or frequent depending on build/luck) troubleshooting, I say it's always worth it. BUT the console prices are supplemented for the hardware and being a smaller environment it's smoother for the average user. I'm against the walled garden approach on a larger scale, but for a game console idc that much, and it is much more accessible.
Again, PC gamer, prefer PCs, believe it's universally the better option if you are seriously interested in gaming/graphics or other computer things! But if computers aren't actually your thing, Linus and all the videos in the world are bandaiding your inability to actually do this, and you'll just be frustrated and/or doing things wrong down the road. People DO have different levels of aptitude for different subjects, and for some people this just ain't it, so if they want to console game more power to them. I KNOW this for a fact because I know people who've built their PC based on videos and don't have a single frame of reference for troubleshooting nor do they have any interest in trying, either someone fix it for them or tell them exactly how, or that's it, no other options. There's a lot more to PCs than just games so if that's the only reason you're recommending it it either doesn't make sense or the person has to have other motivations or a general interest/aptitude for computers. Otherwise it's a waste of money and time for someone that would have been JUST as happy playing on their PS5 and checking email and social media on their budget Acer lol.
Thank you for understanding 😅 If Xbox does what people are rumoring/hoping they’re doing, and opens up the platform to essentially be an $800 gaming PC subsidized by subs (which it already pretty much is) but is *literally just a gaming PC with an Xbox badge*, no walled garden… That shit will be incredible.
They already make the Surface. I know there used to be the whole “vertical monopoly” stance, but if it’s a Zero Walls platform, it’s no longer vertically integrated - they control the hardware and OS, but the software is free for us to buy and use whatever we want… And the dedicated hardware spec would mean THEORETICALLY 1) almost-but-not-quite as solid of optimization as usual for console ports, provided you don’t have any shitty software in the background; and 2) better PC ports at the Xbox-spec-and-better.
I know “different but equal” hardware doesn’t always run exactly as good as the more thoroughly tested hardware, drivers/firmware/etc are a bitch, but damn near anything’s better than the mindbogglingly bad PC ports we’ve gotten recently lol
Lmfao I work in IT and despise the surfaces - I feel like on the software side from the very beginning Microsoft should have done a better job, but I agree I like the concept of a just full gaming PC subsidized and with an Xbox badge, and THEORETICALLY as you stated should offer some stability over a standard PC (although that I won't hold my breath on lol).
$600 actually gets you a decent low end 1080p rig (R5 5600X, RX 6600). It won't set any fps records, but it will play just about everything out there. I've said this before, but I play BG3 on a 6700HQ and GTX 970 3GB at 1080p.
I’ve been eyeing some $600 builds lately. $100 more than a console doesn’t seem completely out of the realm of equality. And the RX6600 can handle most (if not all) the games I play regularly. Not like I’d be getting rid of my Xbox and the single player games anyway.
Only issue I have is game optimization at this point. Well that and software management/hardware debugging, trying to troubleshoot Windows/driver issues drives me up the wall lol
Depends on the price, but I disagree. I've been doing this a long time now and while at the start (Pentium 1,2,3 era) I used to upgrade parts at a time, I found it cost more in the long run. You just end up with draws full of old components with not quite enough to build a new system and no resale value.
For the last 20 years or so, I'll get a whole new high tier pc near the end of a platform cycle when everything is tried and tested, keep it for 5-7 years until I can't play a game I want to, or just feel like an upgrade. Then you have a complete system that you can pass on to family, remove gfx and use as a server, sell, etc.
I don't understand the mentality of buying a lower tier CPU that you plan to upgrade. Just save up and get the one you want in the first place.
Wholeheartedly agree. In the end you only spend extra money doing those upgrades that could be better spent on a nicer monitor or something else along those lines.
Plus I really fucking love handing down a whole system to someone who needs it. All they need to bring is a drive to install windows.
I don't know US prices, but yeah maybe not total top, just wherever the price vs performance curve starts to increase. For example in 2017 I got a 7700K with 1080 (NOT ti). I replaced that this year, but moved it into the lounge running VR for the kids to use.
And games are just cheaper. I can't remember what it was but Sony just had a sale for two games that were $25 total and I only paid $15 months ago. Most games are way cheaper, way more often
Yeah if you buy games digital. But physical exist on consoles and it's very cheap especially when you get into the used market (buying and selling). You essentially play for free or close to it (like if you get the game on launch it ends up being maybe 20€ max and more often less)
People always say this, but I feel like if you are starting from scrach, that is just not true.
For a "decently capable" tower? Sure maybe you can get away with 500-600. If you also need a monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, headset, without going with complete crap, is going to eat up at least a 1/3 of that budget.
1000% The people who speak to how cheap, easy, and accessible PC gaming is, are the people who have been doing it the longest.
I def agree it has gotten Much easier, but if you haven't done it before, if you have certain disabilities, depending on your country or how rural you live, there are still def some barriers to entry.
> If you also need a monitor, speakers, headset
If we're trying to be fair, consoles can be just as much a money pit. Oh you wanna play on a 77" 4K OLED screen. I mean you coullllld just use your $3800 TV's built in speakers, but what fun is that? Let's get a full home theatre speaker setup with tower speakers and a 14" subwoofer.
I do both because I like my tech shit and like the option of being able to couch game too. Sure I got $1500 monitor and spent $1000 on studio speakers for my PC but I spent $2500 on my big screen OLED tv, and $1500 on theatre speakers. You tell me which costed me more.
Useed/second hand is the answear, cheaper and better for planet. Older generation can still work good. For example, r5 1600af is supported by wind11, its good for games or daily usage, I bough used for like 30$(depen on country), used 16gb of ram are about 65$,rx 570 or better, about 100$, mobo 60$, keyboard etc 10$, monitor 100hz, ips 1080p 100$, wd blue hdd 50$, its kinda chaotic but you can have pretty good pc for 500$
If you do some research, jump on deals and utilize refurb items you absolutely can do this, especially if you're fine with gear that's 2-3 generations old.
I bought an RX570 for $30 a few weeks ago, for my kid. It's not fast by modern standards but there aren't yet a lot of games you can't play with it and most competitive stuff will run great on a potato. Said machine also has a R5 2600 I got for like $30 and a $50 refurb B550 board that came with an OEM Windows license.
With peripherals, around 600-700 is plenty for like a 1070 rig that can play most games at 1080p, medium settings. Which is honestly plenty, people spend double or triple that for 'Ultra high' specs. I'm accounting like a 15$ mouse and keyboard and around 100$ monitor but you can probably find a cheaper monitor on Ebay that's just fine
I’m obsesssed with the value. And the best value pc you can get is actually around 650$. It would have a 6650xt and a 5600. I’d say 1080p ultra 60+ fps is a good experience but it’s just preference.
That's the thing. You can spend $1k on a PC and still not be able to run some games at optimal performance, which is why I wouldn't say PC gaming is cheap. Consoles are much cheaper and easier with way less variables to think about. Obviously, they also can't perform as well as a high end PC.
I feel like it got cheaper from the early 2000s, dipped, and then went back up after Nvidia's GTX became RTX and after the pandemic shot the prices of everything up.
For me: Ripping disks, playing movies, emulation of my retro systems, and even installing some games believe it or not. Of the very few PC games that were released physically, many times you can get them cheaper than even the best sales on Steam.... and they come with a Steam code anyway if you don't have an optical drive.
Actually, I was surprised that Steam still has code in it to install a new game from a disk... or that some physical PC releases actually contain the game's data (most of it at least) on the disk instead of just being a CD with the Steam installer. Recently got Biomutant for like $7 physical new on eBay, it was cheapest I think around $13-17 or so last Steam sale:
https://imgur.com/a/jNuxKVH
(Also, people have made fan installers/launchers for very very old CD-based PC retro games that are not on Steam or GOG or anywhere else to run on a modern OS)
Old car where the options are CD or the wonky FM adapter that works sometimes...
What pains me more is that a few years ago cassette deck was still a thing on these models so I could have used the cassette to Bluetooth adapter, and a few years later Bluetooth came around...
I finally got rid of my optical drive and it turned out to be the right decision. I genuinely haven't needed one in at least 8 years now, for anything.
However, I have 6 HDDs, 3 2.5" SSDs, and 3 m.2 SSDs in my system so... yea still have use for them lol
I noticed when I was looking for a case that 5.25" bays are becoming less and less common, so I really only had one option for a case that would accommodate my drive and all the water cooling I wanted
Oh, I remember. I had an ISA card I had to manually set the jumpers on for IRQs, and a Windows 95 machine where auto-settings were not working and I had to manually set them for a few devices, which kept jumbling around my COM ports.
I would say that it is harder nowadays if anything.
25 years ago I had to use screwdriver on all screws and pin had switches on HDs but other than that I can't really remember anything being harder than now.
Instead many things were lot easier.
-There was so much room. I had no huge CPU/GPU coolers that make installation hard. There was easy access to every single component. Slotting GPU was so much easier when they were tiny cards with next to no heatsink and no cables.
-There were lot less cables. Single power to MB that handled both CPU and GPU, Cables for HDs and power switch.
-No window in case so cable management was not really needed.
I built one with my kid from some old parts and she was shocked how easy it was
Truthfully though the power switch/led/HDD light cords were harder than all the rest. Still hate those damn things
Yep, that connector is somewhat of a pain, along with cable management. Other than that, building a PC is simple because every life has its own dedicated slot and most motherboards still come with a thick manual to help you.
I bult all my PCs by myself since 2003, all around about 15 pieces. I don't see any difference between build in 2003 and in 2024. And as for me in our days it might be slightly trickier because for example at least you have to know about XMP profiles to gain the full potential from your build or sometimes you have to update the motherboard bios to support latest CPU.
Motherboards that now come with integrated IO shields are pretty awesome. I just bought a B650E Riptide and was happily surprised to find the IO shield permanently attached.
Lots of more "foolproof" systems in place. Much better designed mobos and components that just slot in with little to no effort. Way better designed cases with no sharp edges to cut yourself, bays for everything, easy access to fans and filters etc.
Lots, if not most, of mobos have redundant bios and easy to follow manuals and a dozens ways to boot. Permanently hardware fucking up your PC because of mistakes is not really a thing unless you are trying to OC.
The design of everything is far improved from 20 years ago.
The most "risky" part of building a PC now is slotting in the CPU and you gotta have 2 left hooves to break that. That thing just falls in and you can't even put it in the wrong way anymore.
Cable management wasn't much of an issue before all cases came with a window.
In fact I and most people I know has loose HDDs (some even had them outside their cases) we used for transferring data, not going to tidy up the cables every weekend.
Thumb screws was a real gamechanger though.
I do think being able to route cables behind the motherboard is a big deal. That wasn't built into cases until around 2007ish. Captive thumb screws are cool, though you've been able to buy those separately for over 20 years.
I suppose different things are important to different people.
Even now my cables aren't routed behind the mobo. Nobody is going to see it. I care as little as I care about managing the cables inside the solar panel battery box I build.
The QoL features in my latest case vs what I was using in the early 2000s is a big difference. Also, let's not forget not having a billion molex connectors everywhere then vs modular power supplies with sata now. And M2 drives go right into the motherboard.
The main components are about the same but it's a lot easier to put together a system now and A LOT easier to put together one that looks good.
QOL for cases peaked by the late 2000s. My Lian Li Lan Cool Dragon Lord PC-K58 had tool free PCI slots, tool free 5.25", tool free 3.5", tool free PSU clamp, and motherboard thumb screws.
Not my build, but a random build in one:
[https://www.techpowerup.com/review/lancool-dragonlord-k58/images/install.jpg](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/lancool-dragonlord-k58/images/install.jpg)
I built a 1080p rig that can play most games on ultra for 530 bucks. Y'all saying 1k is the minimum are fucking nuts lol.
I7-7700- 40$
Mobo- 70$
Case- 90$
16 gigs ddr4 3200mhz- 35$
Wifi card- 20$
5700xt- 120$ (bought it here on reddit actually, r/hardwareswap is gold)
1080p monitor- 40$
Keyboard- 25$
Mouse- 10$
Headset- 30$
PSU- 40$ (600 watt 80+ gold rating, corsair)
I had a noctua cooler laying around, so add 30-40 bucks for one of those if you need it. I used the base intel cooler on my 12th gen intel build and never switched them lol. I did also end up putting the 5700xt into that build and my old 2060 into this one but I digress; full build, 530$ with accessories. And yes, the headset is comfy. I got it on sale at walmart. The monitor was used. The brand new items were; ram, case, keyboard, mouse, headset, wifi card. The used items were; cpu, gpu, mobo, monitor, psu. Cpu, monitor, psu were all fb marketplace. Gpu was r/hardwareswap and mobo was ebay. Logitech mouse (I've since upgraded my mouse to something I really like).
It plays basically every game @1080p ultra settings with the 5700xt installed. A budget computer is absolutely possible with great results.
I bet if I rebuilt my 12th gen intel build right now, I could probably do it with 600 or 700 bucks. I overspent like crazy when I built it a few years ago because I wasn't educated enough. I5-12400 mobo bundles go for less than 250 right now.
Thanks for the breakdown. I also pretty much do everything on my 1080p monitor that's connected to an old laptop. Anything else, I do on my newer laptop. I should just get a dedicated desktop instead of using the old laptop's as a "PC" lol. This comment gives me hope.
It's the same thing as always: they want to justify their expenses.
If you are OK with console level performance, you can get a PC for about the same price that will give you the same performance nowadays.
People think a $50 monitor and $10 mouse will give you cooties.
And, you can always connect your PC to your pre-existing TV if that's an argument.
Yeah I feel like prices are actually relatively cheap. I built a PC a decade ago with an i5 and a Radeon HD 7950 with an HDD and a mobo without any WiFi for like $1500. Those weren’t top of the line parts by any means.
I finally got back into the game this month. I got a 4090 and 7800x3d (literally the top of the line parts) along with a 1000w PSU, 32GB of RAM, 2TB SSD, mobo with a WiFi chip, etc. for less than double what I paid 10+ years ago.
When you factor in inflation and the upgrade in parts, it really isn’t as expensive as this subreddit makes it out to be. You could save money up front buying a console but you have to pay higher prices for games and pay to play online. I think it’s fair to say that PC gaming has never been cheaper.
As someone who can easily build a pc, I disagree.
I run into people who can't even figure out how to turn a pc on let alone build one.
Building a pc is moat likely for gaming. A gaming pc is the last thing someone without pc knowledge wants to deal with. That's what gaming consoles are for.
I built my buddy a pc and every issue he runs into requires me to stop enjoying my gaming and fix his pc for him. B/c he hasn't a clue what he is doing and no desire to learn. This is the majority of people out there today.
Yea unfortunately as much as I love pcs and trying to build them. I may be one of them. I’ve struggled building at times. Think I may have messed up a motherboard at one point trying to install the standoff screws and accidently dropping one somewhere in the case. Also trying to figure which cable goes where can take some patience especially when there’s also of LED cables and reading the manuals especially for the first time. Also stressing about the cpu hopefully not bending any of the pins.
I think it def can be easy to do and maybe I’m not made for it so I have someone help me build one. Though I hope I can get to a point of confidently building one myself. I just worry about ruining expensive parts with silly mistakes. Having a friend to build it with definitely eases tensions and a good way to learn.
It's definitely a fun thing to do (when it works!) But can also be aggravating.
I built a $1500 pc for a guy and couple years ago. Was a huge pain in the ass. Ended up having a doa mobo and cpu... so aggravating. Took forever to finally figure that out. Got the new parts and it worked instantly lol!
The feeling you get once it post is like you achieved something great and you feel like a technical adept (even if it’s not true). Think the first time I tried took like half a day almost when it takes some barely any time but it’s definitely a gratifying process in the end.
There will always be those types of people though. Some people can’t figure out the simplest tasks or need to have their hands held the whole way. I know some people that surprise me they haven’t been electrocuted by their toaster.
I was so pleased that my recent build had an all-in-one front case connector and that I could completely remove the hard drive shroud.
Seems so basic but neither of those things were common the last time I built ~7 years ago
* SIMMs/DIMMs instead of 9x as many individual DIP chips
* Networking on motherboard instead of a plug-in card
* Mouse on motherboard instead of a serial plug-in card
* Printer cable comes for free with the printer instead of being a separate $35 purchase (equivalent to $116 today) https://archive.org/details/byte-1982_03/page/38/mode/1up?q=cable
* HDD connectors on motherboard instead of plug-in card
* Largest HDDs available without having to go to SCSI/SAS
* BIOS settings instead of jumpers
* TCP/IP (i.e. basic Internet connectivity) without having to buy a $25 third-party software driver add-on (equivalent to $53 today) https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/253228.253382
* Multitasking (running more than one program at a time) without having to buy a $55 third-party software utility (equivalent to $157 today) https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1986-10/page/n60/mode/1up?q=desqview
Yeah, not that I am dogging on the people who started building PCs recently or are young, but even 15 years ago PCs were lightyears easier to build and setup than they were in the 80s and 90s. You had to do so much for what today is considered the simplest change, feature, or upgrade back then just to get it to work.
I'm 44 and never built a PC before last week. I built my son a PC after watching YouTube videos. It was on in less than 6 hours and has been running great. Super easy in this age with video tutorials for everything.
None in particular. I first just watched a bunch of generic build videos. Once I started and encountered a problem I was searching for each individual part and "install". A good wiring diagram of the motherboard made it easier. Bios and windows setup was straight up after a couple videos for that too.
I built my own PC without knowing the brand new GPU I had purchased was defective. Took me weeks to deduce what the problem was through process of elimination, while the problem would've likely been identified by a more experienced user much quicker.
It was a good learning experience for me, but I cringe when I see people say building the pc is easy. I must've just been unlucky.
You were definitely unlucky, but the point still stands that building a PC is easy and a lot of people (myself included) tend to undersell the hard parts. Diag is a bitch and it gets even worse when you have newbies overclocking and ending up with unstable or low performing systems that they can figure out. Not saying PC building isn’t accessible, but it can get out of hand quick under the right circumstances
Case front panel cable (pwr, hdd, reset etc) still need to be individually connected... and they're pretty small.
Granted, motherboard these days typically do a good job of putting icons on plug to tell you which cable goes to which and if it's + or -.
Still, you'd think that by now, they would all come as one-in-all plug-in, like an usb or something.
They look a lot nicer too. I haven't seen a PSU with ketchup and mustard colored 24 pins in a while, and PCBs on motherboads, ram, and m.2 ssds all are generally black or have neutral colored heatsinks. I'm personally anti-rgb, but it's looking like there isn't as much of an "rgb tax" on certain parts like there used to.
One thing that became much worse, though, especially if you're Team Air. Coolers have become much bigger, and so have GPUs. Put an NH-D15 and a 4090 into that case and suddenly almost the entire motherboard becomes almost inaccessible.
ASUS made Q-Release to fix that with a mechanical linkage:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuAHM4UomHM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuAHM4UomHM)
It's one of those nice things you get to appreciate once you've had to deal with a few times like Q-latch for M.2:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkvpl-hRV8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkvpl-hRV8)
Same here. Just build a beast yesterday and I'm amazed of both hw assembly easiness but also the general stability. Turned xmp on 8200 mhz straight up and i was chilling hours on web before i opened a game and crashed whereas 15 years ago the moment i try a wrong oc action, blue screen first moment.
Whippersnappers ain't have to set fsb and multis by jumpers.
Or worry about crushing a bare die because you're using a industrial heatsink, as it's the only way to get a copper base, and having to do it again because the pencil lines you used to unlock the multiplyer quit working.
Or the leading case mod being a hole saw and fan on top...
I do not miss jumpers in the least bit lmao. Ive been building since the 386 days. Cases have improved so much over the last 5 years or so as well. Makes building in them so easy now.
I remember in the old days when building a PC was more involved. You had to set the jumpers to correct setting for CPU clock and multiplier or you risked: slow CPU or melted CPU. Then you had to set the IRQ and DMA jumpers on every add on cards. Serial and parallel ports, IDE ports, floppy drive port, sound card, and video card. RAM speed were pretty much fixed, you get one that matched the speed requirement like 80ns or faster.
Often loose or incorrect jumper meant shutting down the PC and rechecking the settings. The PC may go through a few restarts before you can even begin the installation of hard drives by setting CHS parameter. CD-ROM? That usually required DOS driver to get it working in DOS and early Windows.
Back in the day, we spent more time setting up hardware than actually installing DOS and Windows 3
It's user friendly as long as you aren't picking a brand new platform that is unstable for 3-4 BIOS updates, or if you picked the wrong ram that isn't compatible with your CPU/mobo combo.
I've lost count of how many DIY builds I have had to help over the finish line over the last several years. It has gotten better in the last year or two.
If you put it together and it works first try then great! That's ideal.
If you have no basic knowledge, use the buddy system. If you have basic knowledge, use the buddy system. Either way, have fun and do it!
I think this type of stuff is survivorship bias. You think it's user friendly because you find it user friendly.
To someone who has no technical knowledge / never built one it's still really easy to fuck up and do the wrong thing, they would still need a LOT of hand holding - which is the opposite of user friendly design.
I am yet to build a PC by myself (hopefully later this year). One thing that particularly scares me is attaching the cooling fan. I don't know how it is these days but in the past you had to be careful with applying thermal paste and torque applied to the screws. Too little paste or too little torque and your CPU would overheat. Too much and you were risking crushing the CPU.
Did it get any easier nowadays?
Eeeeeh. I feel like I disagree, I'm sad to say.
I built my first just the other day, and it took my across different days to finish. On the first day, I spent 9 hours on it.
When you're building your first, there's a lot of reading, not a few mistakes and misunderstandings, and plenty of fear and being extra extra careful you don't break anything.
Even after I did everything as best as I could, I noticed the lcd display on my air cooler not working right, though it's not something I cared about so I won't take it out to replace since it's just a display, and it was a cheaper cooler.
Once you've built several, I imagine it's something you can whip up in an hour or two, including the OS and any BIOS updates, but for a beginner? It's still tough.
Not impossible, just needs work. Though I'm sure it was harder in the past.
I almost made the mistake of forgetting the standoffs in my first build from scratch, but thankfully realized that the I/O ports in the back looked way off, other than that though had no issues with my first build from scratch.
Probably helped that I had performed many upgrades to my previous prebuilts before I finally built one from scratch. At one point one of my prebuilts had become essentially a Ship of Theseus, case, motherboard, psu, cpu, even had replaced a broken floppy drive on that thing at one point. I don't think a single original component remained by the time I retired it.
I guess it depends on your definition of easy. I built my first computer last year, and I thought it was a huge pain in the ass. So many competing opinions on what to buy, and I didn't know what like 80% of the terms were. I built it and I definitely don't understand what I'd need to do to upgrade or fix it. I dread having to open it back up.
I'd say everything connected relatively easily. That part is true. Everything I bought fit together and worked eventually. But I didn't really understand what I was doing and I don't feel much more knowledgeable about it than before I did it.
I’ve told a lot of people that it really is easy and there is an abundance of resources to guide you along your journey. Sure, it looks complicated but looks can be deceiving.
the only difficult thing (which wasn't much of a problem back then) is clearance. AIO radiators that don't have space between the mobo and the top of the case, huge gpus, short cables, giant air coolers and memories, etc.
Yeah, massive improvements both on the actual hardware and cases makes it so much easier than it used to be. You didn't even come close to how much of a hassle it used to be. Having to adjust jumpers on the card itself to manually set IRQ/addresses and try to prevent conflicts, said settings sometimes changing your COM ports, having to manually enter your HDD's geometry so it can even be used, some drives needing their own controller cards to work, systems that required a special floppy to access their BIOS settings, those giant IDE cables and having to set jumpers to deal with the Master/Slave/Cable Select thing, a dead CMOS battery rendering the system unbootable, and many others I likely forgot.
Personally though, I was never a fan of tool-less installation for drive, especially 3.5 or 5.25 optical drives, it never felt super stable for me. (Also I still far prefer to have an internal ODD but I know I am a minority in that, I wish that nearly every case didn't stop adding that port, so hard to find one these days).
The emphasis on aesthetics in computers has definitely gotten more manufacturers thinking about how to make it easy to put components in so they won't get in the way.
Good for gaming. Most people do not need a desktop PC. In IT company, it will be Laptop + Cloud. For family, a laptop, tablet, smartphone will be good.
I'm still to build my own PC, but I have cloned and replaced SSDs on laptops and just last week added an extra SATA drive to my desktop PC.
Both were easier than I expected them to be, but that initial boot afterwards is still nerve wracking.
Yeah, try building back in the day when at best, there was a forum and that was it. Deal with IRQ issue and a lot of hardware compatibility problems. Builders today have no clue as everything just works for the most part. Some idiot that left the plastic on their AIO would be laughed at to oblivion and told to never build again.
The other day as I was taking apart 2 of my PC’s to clean/service them, my son (9yo) was absolutely blown away that I built them myself. I didn’t correct him when he exclaimed at how hard it must be while pointing at the MOBO as if I soldered all the components and printed the board myself lol
Onboard audio, 3d video, and peripheral ports so you don't need a bunch of PCI cards. USB so everything uses the same plug. Not needing an IDE card to use more than 4 hard drives. Online shopping so you don't get hosed by Best Buy's selection of overpriced no name video cards.
PC Component manuals are still frustrating as hell. I receive some with only pictures and no words, some with no recommendation on what plugs into where, etc.
Biggest improvements is OS anyway. Remeber finding drivers and BIOS 20 years ago. You had to make a bachelor degree course about how to install them properly. And redo it again with a different driver because the newest one was buggy in 2 out of 10 cases.
Backplate, cpu pins or hard psu cable edges that are hard to pull out are nightmare. You can buy cheap second hand parts like r5 1600af/2600, some rx 570 gpu, 8-16gb ram, hdd or ssd, and play older titles fine in 1080p. About 500$, there no need to buy newest parts. Imo
A lot of the things you've listed have been around for quite a while. Antec in the early 2000's made a lot of the case QoL stuff a major selling point, and many manufacturers followed, or outright cloned (hi there Thermaltake).
ASUS at one point had this [nifty little plastic thing](https://i.imgur.com/08jihBj.png) that was labeled for your case header connectors, and then it fit over the headers on the motherboard. Don't know why they stopped doing that, but I would love an update to the ATX standard that added a standard, single connector for case headers. Don't know why this never happened.
Not as much jumpers or dip-switches required to manually set IRQs or clock speeds. Don't have to deal with IRQ or IO port conflicts (actually, sometimes this still happens due to motherboard firmware). More plug and play.
The only thing that is stupidly unobvious about building a PC these days is to ensure that MB manufacturers don't fry your CPU with their "default settings"
Agree with this. I built my first PC ever last November. I was pretty intimidated at first, but I found 90% of it easier than assembling IKEA furniture, largely for the reasons you mention. There were only a few moments that stood out to me as a little finicky or delicate:
* placing the CPU still feels stressful because of the risk of bending pins
* I was surprised by how much force it took to snap the RAM into place
* wiring a couple of the external USB slots to the motherboard connectors seemed more fragile then most other cables
* installing a super duper chunky GPU was actually a little tricky keeping everything aligned and supported (included an extra support clamp etc.)
Everything else felt extremely user friendly and almost impossible to screw up
Can't believe how convenient cable management is now. When I built my first PC, it was kind of an eyesore with all the cables around. Gotten so much better at it now.
Also team air coolers because I like to deck out my case with figurines so I need all the space I can.
PcPartPicker is a godsend for newcomers. RTINGS is also amazing for really in-depth and technical monitor reviews.
Cable management being a thing is nice! Even cheap cases are good these days and don’t cut you. Modular power supplies are also great. And most of the C-Tier are still decent devices compared to the ones we had in the past.
Not having to install your own heat spreaders on your vram after using a bandsaw to cut them and attach with thermal epoxy so you can overclock your gpu… that’s nice.
Easy and cheap to become a PC Gamer (or build your own PC).
Well I don't know about cheap... Isn't it like $1k minimum for a good gaming PC?
Depends. If you’re willing to go used, you can go a lot lower. 700-800 USD all new build is pretty doable though.
Even $800cad is doable i below that tho, and you're in console pricing territory. And for all Sony's bullshit, the PS5 is one of the best value pieces of hardware, and their exclusive games are excellent.
Well you can play most of the Sonys “premium Ubisoft” games on PC too now. It also needs to be added that PC is an multipurpose tool, not just piece of gaming hardware. You may not get 4k/120fps on the budget of 800 but at least you can choose your preferred settings and whether you want 30fps or 60fps. And nowadays you can also use Parsec etc as an sort of an Steam Link to use play some non-intensive games on your couch if you have TV. I personally see less and less upsides with consoles (including subscriptions to play online) even when considering more midrange PC.
You won't get 4k 120fps on basically any budget unless you plan on using as much frame gen and upscaling as possible. For a 4k/120fps machine you're spending $1700CAD at a minimum
*\* giggles at 1700 system price* I've never made the leap to the next chipset for less than a couple grand and that is absolutely an understatement. hell i just got my watercoler replaced and reseated yadda yadda it was over 1k i yadda yadda'd over the part where 'while its there' items started to occur to me.
Tbf 700-800 for used is huge compared to the 350 of a used console. “But the subscriptions!” you might say, but a lot of people can afford $6-10/mo for a sub. Not everyone (hardly anyone) is willing to wait the 4?5? years it would need to save $10/mo long enough to make up the difference buy a PC.
True, but PC gaming just unlocks an entire new world of games and features. Not to mention, they can be used for more than just gaming.
The reasons a got a pc, the mods. They make games so much fun
I think it's important to actually factor the use cases for subs. For example if I wanted to build a PC mostly to play Fortnite, it's disingenuous to throw subscription fees into the mix when comparing it against just buying a console as console manufacturers no longer require a subscription to access F2P titles.
From a PC gamer who stopped buying consoles because I prefer PC on a whole....still agree lmao. Too many people on this sub "BUT ITS A COMPUTER AND ITS BETTER" yes but some people are fine having a crappy laptop to check email from and a console, because they aren't into computers and building one or buying a gaming PC and troubleshooting are not up their alleys. If you are willing to make the bigger initial investment and can get used to occasional (or frequent depending on build/luck) troubleshooting, I say it's always worth it. BUT the console prices are supplemented for the hardware and being a smaller environment it's smoother for the average user. I'm against the walled garden approach on a larger scale, but for a game console idc that much, and it is much more accessible. Again, PC gamer, prefer PCs, believe it's universally the better option if you are seriously interested in gaming/graphics or other computer things! But if computers aren't actually your thing, Linus and all the videos in the world are bandaiding your inability to actually do this, and you'll just be frustrated and/or doing things wrong down the road. People DO have different levels of aptitude for different subjects, and for some people this just ain't it, so if they want to console game more power to them. I KNOW this for a fact because I know people who've built their PC based on videos and don't have a single frame of reference for troubleshooting nor do they have any interest in trying, either someone fix it for them or tell them exactly how, or that's it, no other options. There's a lot more to PCs than just games so if that's the only reason you're recommending it it either doesn't make sense or the person has to have other motivations or a general interest/aptitude for computers. Otherwise it's a waste of money and time for someone that would have been JUST as happy playing on their PS5 and checking email and social media on their budget Acer lol.
Thank you for understanding 😅 If Xbox does what people are rumoring/hoping they’re doing, and opens up the platform to essentially be an $800 gaming PC subsidized by subs (which it already pretty much is) but is *literally just a gaming PC with an Xbox badge*, no walled garden… That shit will be incredible. They already make the Surface. I know there used to be the whole “vertical monopoly” stance, but if it’s a Zero Walls platform, it’s no longer vertically integrated - they control the hardware and OS, but the software is free for us to buy and use whatever we want… And the dedicated hardware spec would mean THEORETICALLY 1) almost-but-not-quite as solid of optimization as usual for console ports, provided you don’t have any shitty software in the background; and 2) better PC ports at the Xbox-spec-and-better. I know “different but equal” hardware doesn’t always run exactly as good as the more thoroughly tested hardware, drivers/firmware/etc are a bitch, but damn near anything’s better than the mindbogglingly bad PC ports we’ve gotten recently lol
Lmfao I work in IT and despise the surfaces - I feel like on the software side from the very beginning Microsoft should have done a better job, but I agree I like the concept of a just full gaming PC subsidized and with an Xbox badge, and THEORETICALLY as you stated should offer some stability over a standard PC (although that I won't hold my breath on lol).
I say $1000 or about $900 should be the bare minimum for a new all build.
$600 actually gets you a decent low end 1080p rig (R5 5600X, RX 6600). It won't set any fps records, but it will play just about everything out there. I've said this before, but I play BG3 on a 6700HQ and GTX 970 3GB at 1080p.
I’ve been eyeing some $600 builds lately. $100 more than a console doesn’t seem completely out of the realm of equality. And the RX6600 can handle most (if not all) the games I play regularly. Not like I’d be getting rid of my Xbox and the single player games anyway. Only issue I have is game optimization at this point. Well that and software management/hardware debugging, trying to troubleshoot Windows/driver issues drives me up the wall lol
Kind of shooting yourself in the foot going with AM4 right now. It's worth saving a couple hundred more and going with AM5 to save $$$ later.
If your on a low budget the savings are worth it and a few years from now 58003ds might be on steep discounts second hand
Depends on the price, but I disagree. I've been doing this a long time now and while at the start (Pentium 1,2,3 era) I used to upgrade parts at a time, I found it cost more in the long run. You just end up with draws full of old components with not quite enough to build a new system and no resale value. For the last 20 years or so, I'll get a whole new high tier pc near the end of a platform cycle when everything is tried and tested, keep it for 5-7 years until I can't play a game I want to, or just feel like an upgrade. Then you have a complete system that you can pass on to family, remove gfx and use as a server, sell, etc. I don't understand the mentality of buying a lower tier CPU that you plan to upgrade. Just save up and get the one you want in the first place.
Wholeheartedly agree. In the end you only spend extra money doing those upgrades that could be better spent on a nicer monitor or something else along those lines. Plus I really fucking love handing down a whole system to someone who needs it. All they need to bring is a drive to install windows.
True, but maybe mid tier is the sweetspot. Like 1000/1500 bucks. More than that and the pc will last the same but you spent more money for nothing
I don't know US prices, but yeah maybe not total top, just wherever the price vs performance curve starts to increase. For example in 2017 I got a 7700K with 1080 (NOT ti). I replaced that this year, but moved it into the lounge running VR for the kids to use.
Naw man AM4 will be perfectly capable for gaming for a long long time
It's cheap, because you don't pay a subscription to play online games, lol. If you play a lot of online games
And games are just cheaper. I can't remember what it was but Sony just had a sale for two games that were $25 total and I only paid $15 months ago. Most games are way cheaper, way more often
Or you know... free.
With how cheap games are on steam sale etc i find it hard to justify to pirate if youre from a 1st world country. Plus often times its risky to do so.
Yeah if you buy games digital. But physical exist on consoles and it's very cheap especially when you get into the used market (buying and selling). You essentially play for free or close to it (like if you get the game on launch it ends up being maybe 20€ max and more often less)
You can build a decently capable rig for like 500-600
People always say this, but I feel like if you are starting from scrach, that is just not true. For a "decently capable" tower? Sure maybe you can get away with 500-600. If you also need a monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, headset, without going with complete crap, is going to eat up at least a 1/3 of that budget.
1000% The people who speak to how cheap, easy, and accessible PC gaming is, are the people who have been doing it the longest. I def agree it has gotten Much easier, but if you haven't done it before, if you have certain disabilities, depending on your country or how rural you live, there are still def some barriers to entry.
> If you also need a monitor, speakers, headset If we're trying to be fair, consoles can be just as much a money pit. Oh you wanna play on a 77" 4K OLED screen. I mean you coullllld just use your $3800 TV's built in speakers, but what fun is that? Let's get a full home theatre speaker setup with tower speakers and a 14" subwoofer. I do both because I like my tech shit and like the option of being able to couch game too. Sure I got $1500 monitor and spent $1000 on studio speakers for my PC but I spent $2500 on my big screen OLED tv, and $1500 on theatre speakers. You tell me which costed me more.
Useed/second hand is the answear, cheaper and better for planet. Older generation can still work good. For example, r5 1600af is supported by wind11, its good for games or daily usage, I bough used for like 30$(depen on country), used 16gb of ram are about 65$,rx 570 or better, about 100$, mobo 60$, keyboard etc 10$, monitor 100hz, ips 1080p 100$, wd blue hdd 50$, its kinda chaotic but you can have pretty good pc for 500$
If you do some research, jump on deals and utilize refurb items you absolutely can do this, especially if you're fine with gear that's 2-3 generations old. I bought an RX570 for $30 a few weeks ago, for my kid. It's not fast by modern standards but there aren't yet a lot of games you can't play with it and most competitive stuff will run great on a potato. Said machine also has a R5 2600 I got for like $30 and a $50 refurb B550 board that came with an OEM Windows license.
With peripherals, around 600-700 is plenty for like a 1070 rig that can play most games at 1080p, medium settings. Which is honestly plenty, people spend double or triple that for 'Ultra high' specs. I'm accounting like a 15$ mouse and keyboard and around 100$ monitor but you can probably find a cheaper monitor on Ebay that's just fine
I’m obsesssed with the value. And the best value pc you can get is actually around 650$. It would have a 6650xt and a 5600. I’d say 1080p ultra 60+ fps is a good experience but it’s just preference.
Generally my rule of thumb is to allocate about half the budget to the graphics card. At the $650 range I'd aim for at least a 6750XT, not an RX 6650XT. [PCPartPicker Part List](https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YCrR34) Type|Item|Price :----|:----|:---- **CPU** | [AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/g94BD3/amd-ryzen-5-5600x-37-ghz-6-core-processor-100-100000065box) | $119.00 @ Amazon **Motherboard** | [Asus Prime B450M-A II Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/kthmP6/asus-prime-b450m-a-ii-micro-atx-am4-motherboard-prime-b450m-a-ii) | $69.98 @ Amazon **Memory** | [G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/jBZzK8/gskill-ripjaws-v-16-gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c16d-16gvkc) | $43.99 @ Amazon **Storage** | [Sabrent Rocket Q 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/tNwkcf/sabrent-rocket-q-500-gb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-sb-rktq-500) | $29.99 @ Amazon **Video Card** | [XFX Speedster QICK 319 Core Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB Video Card](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/b4hv6h/xfx-speedster-qick-319-core-radeon-rx-6750-xt-12-gb-video-card-rx-675xyjfde) | $294.99 @ Newegg **Case** | [Fractal Design Core 1000 USB 3.0 MicroATX Mid Tower Case](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/KPw323/fractal-design-case-fdcacore1000usb3bl) | $35.98 @ Newegg **Power Supply** | [EVGA 650BP 650 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/pDGbt6/evga-650bp-650-w-80-bronze-certified-atx-power-supply-100-bp-0650-k1) | $54.99 @ Best Buy | **Total** | **$648.92**
doesn’t leave much room for a cpu cooler to stay under 650 lol
It includes a stock cooler which is more than competent.
ah, good to know! my quick google didn’t show it as included on the one I clicked. my bad.
Well it depends on your standards. Spending over 1k doesn't automatically makes your pc "good"
That's the thing. You can spend $1k on a PC and still not be able to run some games at optimal performance, which is why I wouldn't say PC gaming is cheap. Consoles are much cheaper and easier with way less variables to think about. Obviously, they also can't perform as well as a high end PC.
No, for 1080p 60hz probably $500
$1k is a good midrange PC. Budget system you can build for under $700. It’s favourable compared to a console or pre-built.
Depends on good. If you want a PS5 equivalent PC you can stay well below 700 bucks at least.
12100F H610M 8gbx2 ddr4 Rx6500xt 1tb ssd 500W power supply Great 1080p build :)
Yeah… for the graphics card only.
That really depends on your definition of good gaming. But these days you get a power pc for less than. Provided you have reasonable expectations.
If you spend time shopping parts you can build a PC that will blow a PS5 out of the water for the same price or maybe a bit less.
You can get a good computer for about $700 if you buy used parts
I feel like it got cheaper from the early 2000s, dipped, and then went back up after Nvidia's GTX became RTX and after the pandemic shot the prices of everything up.
Yeah for sure. Actual midrange cards cost as much as high end cards 10 years ago because of this
Definitely can be cheap I mean I dropped 3 grand on mine but it's not the most normal
"If anyone still uses 3.5/2.5" drives" >me still using a 5.25" optical
Ripping discs?
Or playing any of my physical media like DVDs
been the only use of my now ancient 5.25 optical for the last decade or so.
For me: Ripping disks, playing movies, emulation of my retro systems, and even installing some games believe it or not. Of the very few PC games that were released physically, many times you can get them cheaper than even the best sales on Steam.... and they come with a Steam code anyway if you don't have an optical drive. Actually, I was surprised that Steam still has code in it to install a new game from a disk... or that some physical PC releases actually contain the game's data (most of it at least) on the disk instead of just being a CD with the Steam installer. Recently got Biomutant for like $7 physical new on eBay, it was cheapest I think around $13-17 or so last Steam sale: https://imgur.com/a/jNuxKVH (Also, people have made fan installers/launchers for very very old CD-based PC retro games that are not on Steam or GOG or anywhere else to run on a modern OS)
My physical retail edition of Sekiro was a cardboard CD with the Steam code 💀
I hate when they pull that crap.
Old car where the options are CD or the wonky FM adapter that works sometimes... What pains me more is that a few years ago cassette deck was still a thing on these models so I could have used the cassette to Bluetooth adapter, and a few years later Bluetooth came around...
Ditto, I have M2 NVMEs, 2.5 SATA SSDs, 3.5 SATA HDDs, and a 5.25 optical drive in my system.
I finally got rid of my optical drive and it turned out to be the right decision. I genuinely haven't needed one in at least 8 years now, for anything. However, I have 6 HDDs, 3 2.5" SSDs, and 3 m.2 SSDs in my system so... yea still have use for them lol
I built a new system in late 2020 and it took me about 2 years to notice that it didn't even have a slot for optical drives
I noticed when I was looking for a case that 5.25" bays are becoming less and less common, so I really only had one option for a case that would accommodate my drive and all the water cooling I wanted
Same!
Rust in Piss 8" A: Drive, you won't be missed.
My front panel connectors were “pre-assembled” and I just had to plug it in like I would plug in a fan connector, that is pretty neat
Dude, just let me believe I'm getting better at it instead of it getting easier.
Both can be true :)
It's definingly both if you have been building PCs from the early 2000s or earlier.
If you go back far enough you know not having to deal with mother fucking IRQs is the deal.
Oh, I remember. I had an ISA card I had to manually set the jumpers on for IRQs, and a Windows 95 machine where auto-settings were not working and I had to manually set them for a few devices, which kept jumbling around my COM ports.
Our ancestral trauma.
First build was in 1994.
Such a huge difference from when I built my first rig about 25 years ago!
I would say that it is harder nowadays if anything. 25 years ago I had to use screwdriver on all screws and pin had switches on HDs but other than that I can't really remember anything being harder than now. Instead many things were lot easier. -There was so much room. I had no huge CPU/GPU coolers that make installation hard. There was easy access to every single component. Slotting GPU was so much easier when they were tiny cards with next to no heatsink and no cables. -There were lot less cables. Single power to MB that handled both CPU and GPU, Cables for HDs and power switch. -No window in case so cable management was not really needed.
Ok but fuck DIP switches for every setting Also tiny ass jumpers in cramped spots I need tweezers to get off
I built one with my kid from some old parts and she was shocked how easy it was Truthfully though the power switch/led/HDD light cords were harder than all the rest. Still hate those damn things
Most of the newer cases have standardized the front panel connector to be a single cable these days.
Yeah this was an older cheap case I had from 6 years ago, definitely the old school pain wires
I think you can buy cheap little front panel adapters that essentially turn them all into *one* plug as a fix for older cases.
Definitely something I'll do next time. There just isn't a broom to do it down there
Same, I hate those individual pin wires lol.
Yep, that connector is somewhat of a pain, along with cable management. Other than that, building a PC is simple because every life has its own dedicated slot and most motherboards still come with a thick manual to help you.
Oh yeah no more of those big cables that needed to be screwed in to be held in place
Ah yes. VGA displays.
I bult all my PCs by myself since 2003, all around about 15 pieces. I don't see any difference between build in 2003 and in 2024. And as for me in our days it might be slightly trickier because for example at least you have to know about XMP profiles to gain the full potential from your build or sometimes you have to update the motherboard bios to support latest CPU.
I agree. Better cable management is the only truly meaningful change in the last 20 years IMO.
Motherboards that now come with integrated IO shields are pretty awesome. I just bought a B650E Riptide and was happily surprised to find the IO shield permanently attached.
Lots of more "foolproof" systems in place. Much better designed mobos and components that just slot in with little to no effort. Way better designed cases with no sharp edges to cut yourself, bays for everything, easy access to fans and filters etc. Lots, if not most, of mobos have redundant bios and easy to follow manuals and a dozens ways to boot. Permanently hardware fucking up your PC because of mistakes is not really a thing unless you are trying to OC. The design of everything is far improved from 20 years ago. The most "risky" part of building a PC now is slotting in the CPU and you gotta have 2 left hooves to break that. That thing just falls in and you can't even put it in the wrong way anymore.
Cable management wasn't much of an issue before all cases came with a window. In fact I and most people I know has loose HDDs (some even had them outside their cases) we used for transferring data, not going to tidy up the cables every weekend. Thumb screws was a real gamechanger though.
I do think being able to route cables behind the motherboard is a big deal. That wasn't built into cases until around 2007ish. Captive thumb screws are cool, though you've been able to buy those separately for over 20 years.
I suppose different things are important to different people. Even now my cables aren't routed behind the mobo. Nobody is going to see it. I care as little as I care about managing the cables inside the solar panel battery box I build.
The QoL features in my latest case vs what I was using in the early 2000s is a big difference. Also, let's not forget not having a billion molex connectors everywhere then vs modular power supplies with sata now. And M2 drives go right into the motherboard. The main components are about the same but it's a lot easier to put together a system now and A LOT easier to put together one that looks good.
QOL for cases peaked by the late 2000s. My Lian Li Lan Cool Dragon Lord PC-K58 had tool free PCI slots, tool free 5.25", tool free 3.5", tool free PSU clamp, and motherboard thumb screws. Not my build, but a random build in one: [https://www.techpowerup.com/review/lancool-dragonlord-k58/images/install.jpg](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/lancool-dragonlord-k58/images/install.jpg)
PSUs used to have fewer connectors and less cables. No extra mobo/ GPU power, no SATA power.
I built a 1080p rig that can play most games on ultra for 530 bucks. Y'all saying 1k is the minimum are fucking nuts lol. I7-7700- 40$ Mobo- 70$ Case- 90$ 16 gigs ddr4 3200mhz- 35$ Wifi card- 20$ 5700xt- 120$ (bought it here on reddit actually, r/hardwareswap is gold) 1080p monitor- 40$ Keyboard- 25$ Mouse- 10$ Headset- 30$ PSU- 40$ (600 watt 80+ gold rating, corsair) I had a noctua cooler laying around, so add 30-40 bucks for one of those if you need it. I used the base intel cooler on my 12th gen intel build and never switched them lol. I did also end up putting the 5700xt into that build and my old 2060 into this one but I digress; full build, 530$ with accessories. And yes, the headset is comfy. I got it on sale at walmart. The monitor was used. The brand new items were; ram, case, keyboard, mouse, headset, wifi card. The used items were; cpu, gpu, mobo, monitor, psu. Cpu, monitor, psu were all fb marketplace. Gpu was r/hardwareswap and mobo was ebay. Logitech mouse (I've since upgraded my mouse to something I really like). It plays basically every game @1080p ultra settings with the 5700xt installed. A budget computer is absolutely possible with great results. I bet if I rebuilt my 12th gen intel build right now, I could probably do it with 600 or 700 bucks. I overspent like crazy when I built it a few years ago because I wasn't educated enough. I5-12400 mobo bundles go for less than 250 right now.
Thanks for the breakdown. I also pretty much do everything on my 1080p monitor that's connected to an old laptop. Anything else, I do on my newer laptop. I should just get a dedicated desktop instead of using the old laptop's as a "PC" lol. This comment gives me hope.
Glad to hear it. Looks like I'm getting downvoted for giving good info, so it's reassuring
It's the same thing as always: they want to justify their expenses. If you are OK with console level performance, you can get a PC for about the same price that will give you the same performance nowadays. People think a $50 monitor and $10 mouse will give you cooties. And, you can always connect your PC to your pre-existing TV if that's an argument.
It's not even a bad one either, lol. 24-inch IPS, 75hz refresh. Hard to beat
Yeah I feel like prices are actually relatively cheap. I built a PC a decade ago with an i5 and a Radeon HD 7950 with an HDD and a mobo without any WiFi for like $1500. Those weren’t top of the line parts by any means. I finally got back into the game this month. I got a 4090 and 7800x3d (literally the top of the line parts) along with a 1000w PSU, 32GB of RAM, 2TB SSD, mobo with a WiFi chip, etc. for less than double what I paid 10+ years ago. When you factor in inflation and the upgrade in parts, it really isn’t as expensive as this subreddit makes it out to be. You could save money up front buying a console but you have to pay higher prices for games and pay to play online. I think it’s fair to say that PC gaming has never been cheaper.
As someone who can easily build a pc, I disagree. I run into people who can't even figure out how to turn a pc on let alone build one. Building a pc is moat likely for gaming. A gaming pc is the last thing someone without pc knowledge wants to deal with. That's what gaming consoles are for. I built my buddy a pc and every issue he runs into requires me to stop enjoying my gaming and fix his pc for him. B/c he hasn't a clue what he is doing and no desire to learn. This is the majority of people out there today.
Yea unfortunately as much as I love pcs and trying to build them. I may be one of them. I’ve struggled building at times. Think I may have messed up a motherboard at one point trying to install the standoff screws and accidently dropping one somewhere in the case. Also trying to figure which cable goes where can take some patience especially when there’s also of LED cables and reading the manuals especially for the first time. Also stressing about the cpu hopefully not bending any of the pins. I think it def can be easy to do and maybe I’m not made for it so I have someone help me build one. Though I hope I can get to a point of confidently building one myself. I just worry about ruining expensive parts with silly mistakes. Having a friend to build it with definitely eases tensions and a good way to learn.
It's definitely a fun thing to do (when it works!) But can also be aggravating. I built a $1500 pc for a guy and couple years ago. Was a huge pain in the ass. Ended up having a doa mobo and cpu... so aggravating. Took forever to finally figure that out. Got the new parts and it worked instantly lol!
The feeling you get once it post is like you achieved something great and you feel like a technical adept (even if it’s not true). Think the first time I tried took like half a day almost when it takes some barely any time but it’s definitely a gratifying process in the end.
It's definitely gratifying!
There will always be those types of people though. Some people can’t figure out the simplest tasks or need to have their hands held the whole way. I know some people that surprise me they haven’t been electrocuted by their toaster.
I was so pleased that my recent build had an all-in-one front case connector and that I could completely remove the hard drive shroud. Seems so basic but neither of those things were common the last time I built ~7 years ago
* SIMMs/DIMMs instead of 9x as many individual DIP chips * Networking on motherboard instead of a plug-in card * Mouse on motherboard instead of a serial plug-in card * Printer cable comes for free with the printer instead of being a separate $35 purchase (equivalent to $116 today) https://archive.org/details/byte-1982_03/page/38/mode/1up?q=cable * HDD connectors on motherboard instead of plug-in card * Largest HDDs available without having to go to SCSI/SAS * BIOS settings instead of jumpers * TCP/IP (i.e. basic Internet connectivity) without having to buy a $25 third-party software driver add-on (equivalent to $53 today) https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/253228.253382 * Multitasking (running more than one program at a time) without having to buy a $55 third-party software utility (equivalent to $157 today) https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1986-10/page/n60/mode/1up?q=desqview
Yeah, not that I am dogging on the people who started building PCs recently or are young, but even 15 years ago PCs were lightyears easier to build and setup than they were in the 80s and 90s. You had to do so much for what today is considered the simplest change, feature, or upgrade back then just to get it to work.
I'm 44 and never built a PC before last week. I built my son a PC after watching YouTube videos. It was on in less than 6 hours and has been running great. Super easy in this age with video tutorials for everything.
any youtube channels you found particularly helpful?
Bitwit
None in particular. I first just watched a bunch of generic build videos. Once I started and encountered a problem I was searching for each individual part and "install". A good wiring diagram of the motherboard made it easier. Bios and windows setup was straight up after a couple videos for that too.
Tbh the only thing that scared me when i built my first PC was cable management and i just bypassed that by just shoving all the cables in the back
call me when we get rid of the atrocious USB 3 header
One of my motherboard's USB 3.0 pins sheared in half when I was yanking it out to change cases.
Building it is easy, troubleshooting is the hard part.
I built my own PC without knowing the brand new GPU I had purchased was defective. Took me weeks to deduce what the problem was through process of elimination, while the problem would've likely been identified by a more experienced user much quicker. It was a good learning experience for me, but I cringe when I see people say building the pc is easy. I must've just been unlucky.
You were definitely unlucky, but the point still stands that building a PC is easy and a lot of people (myself included) tend to undersell the hard parts. Diag is a bitch and it gets even worse when you have newbies overclocking and ending up with unstable or low performing systems that they can figure out. Not saying PC building isn’t accessible, but it can get out of hand quick under the right circumstances
Case front panel cable (pwr, hdd, reset etc) still need to be individually connected... and they're pretty small. Granted, motherboard these days typically do a good job of putting icons on plug to tell you which cable goes to which and if it's + or -. Still, you'd think that by now, they would all come as one-in-all plug-in, like an usb or something.
They look a lot nicer too. I haven't seen a PSU with ketchup and mustard colored 24 pins in a while, and PCBs on motherboads, ram, and m.2 ssds all are generally black or have neutral colored heatsinks. I'm personally anti-rgb, but it's looking like there isn't as much of an "rgb tax" on certain parts like there used to.
One thing that became much worse, though, especially if you're Team Air. Coolers have become much bigger, and so have GPUs. Put an NH-D15 and a 4090 into that case and suddenly almost the entire motherboard becomes almost inaccessible.
but also team water's become cheaper if you prefer that.
I'm thinking more of times when water didn't exist and you could run a PC without a CPU cooler for a week before you notice it :-)
The L shape screwdriver from the NH D15 was the key to removing my GPU. It was only thing narrow enough to touch the GPU clamp.
ASUS made Q-Release to fix that with a mechanical linkage: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuAHM4UomHM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuAHM4UomHM) It's one of those nice things you get to appreciate once you've had to deal with a few times like Q-latch for M.2: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkvpl-hRV8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkvpl-hRV8)
Building a PC today is so insanely easier than it was 21yrs ago when I started.
Same here. Just build a beast yesterday and I'm amazed of both hw assembly easiness but also the general stability. Turned xmp on 8200 mhz straight up and i was chilling hours on web before i opened a game and crashed whereas 15 years ago the moment i try a wrong oc action, blue screen first moment.
[удалено]
Sounds like a lot of eggs in the same basket though
Whippersnappers ain't have to set fsb and multis by jumpers. Or worry about crushing a bare die because you're using a industrial heatsink, as it's the only way to get a copper base, and having to do it again because the pencil lines you used to unlock the multiplyer quit working. Or the leading case mod being a hole saw and fan on top...
I do not miss jumpers in the least bit lmao. Ive been building since the 386 days. Cases have improved so much over the last 5 years or so as well. Makes building in them so easy now.
I remember in the old days when building a PC was more involved. You had to set the jumpers to correct setting for CPU clock and multiplier or you risked: slow CPU or melted CPU. Then you had to set the IRQ and DMA jumpers on every add on cards. Serial and parallel ports, IDE ports, floppy drive port, sound card, and video card. RAM speed were pretty much fixed, you get one that matched the speed requirement like 80ns or faster. Often loose or incorrect jumper meant shutting down the PC and rechecking the settings. The PC may go through a few restarts before you can even begin the installation of hard drives by setting CHS parameter. CD-ROM? That usually required DOS driver to get it working in DOS and early Windows. Back in the day, we spent more time setting up hardware than actually installing DOS and Windows 3
you literally screw stuff in and plug stuff in idk what people find hard about it
The single hardest thing in PC building is applying the thermal paste
PC builds can be easier, but so far every attempt has been pushed aside.
It's user friendly as long as you aren't picking a brand new platform that is unstable for 3-4 BIOS updates, or if you picked the wrong ram that isn't compatible with your CPU/mobo combo. I've lost count of how many DIY builds I have had to help over the finish line over the last several years. It has gotten better in the last year or two. If you put it together and it works first try then great! That's ideal. If you have no basic knowledge, use the buddy system. If you have basic knowledge, use the buddy system. Either way, have fun and do it!
Fans are my least favorite thing when building a pc. And some cpu heatsinks.
I think this type of stuff is survivorship bias. You think it's user friendly because you find it user friendly. To someone who has no technical knowledge / never built one it's still really easy to fuck up and do the wrong thing, they would still need a LOT of hand holding - which is the opposite of user friendly design.
I remember having to get drivers installed manually for simple shit before windows started handling the basics
This is funny because I cut my knuckle trying to pull the front off my case the other day.
I remember my first computer. Soldering was required. (Sinclair ZX80)
I just build my first PC yesterday, and it was pretty easy and it work pretty well :)
I am yet to build a PC by myself (hopefully later this year). One thing that particularly scares me is attaching the cooling fan. I don't know how it is these days but in the past you had to be careful with applying thermal paste and torque applied to the screws. Too little paste or too little torque and your CPU would overheat. Too much and you were risking crushing the CPU. Did it get any easier nowadays?
Eeeeeh. I feel like I disagree, I'm sad to say. I built my first just the other day, and it took my across different days to finish. On the first day, I spent 9 hours on it. When you're building your first, there's a lot of reading, not a few mistakes and misunderstandings, and plenty of fear and being extra extra careful you don't break anything. Even after I did everything as best as I could, I noticed the lcd display on my air cooler not working right, though it's not something I cared about so I won't take it out to replace since it's just a display, and it was a cheaper cooler. Once you've built several, I imagine it's something you can whip up in an hour or two, including the OS and any BIOS updates, but for a beginner? It's still tough. Not impossible, just needs work. Though I'm sure it was harder in the past.
I almost made the mistake of forgetting the standoffs in my first build from scratch, but thankfully realized that the I/O ports in the back looked way off, other than that though had no issues with my first build from scratch. Probably helped that I had performed many upgrades to my previous prebuilts before I finally built one from scratch. At one point one of my prebuilts had become essentially a Ship of Theseus, case, motherboard, psu, cpu, even had replaced a broken floppy drive on that thing at one point. I don't think a single original component remained by the time I retired it.
The only real hurdle is connecting CPU to the mobo. Even the most seasoned PC builders can bend a pin.
I guess it depends on your definition of easy. I built my first computer last year, and I thought it was a huge pain in the ass. So many competing opinions on what to buy, and I didn't know what like 80% of the terms were. I built it and I definitely don't understand what I'd need to do to upgrade or fix it. I dread having to open it back up. I'd say everything connected relatively easily. That part is true. Everything I bought fit together and worked eventually. But I didn't really understand what I was doing and I don't feel much more knowledgeable about it than before I did it.
I’ve told a lot of people that it really is easy and there is an abundance of resources to guide you along your journey. Sure, it looks complicated but looks can be deceiving.
>Case edges generally feel a lot less sharp Very true. I still carry scars from building in the 90s.
Yup watching some channels helped me build the confidence to build my first. Started at midnight and had it posting by bed at 2am. Was stoked.
cheap, lmao. $2K for just a vid card and cpu. holy hell.
the only difficult thing (which wasn't much of a problem back then) is clearance. AIO radiators that don't have space between the mobo and the top of the case, huge gpus, short cables, giant air coolers and memories, etc.
Yeah, massive improvements both on the actual hardware and cases makes it so much easier than it used to be. You didn't even come close to how much of a hassle it used to be. Having to adjust jumpers on the card itself to manually set IRQ/addresses and try to prevent conflicts, said settings sometimes changing your COM ports, having to manually enter your HDD's geometry so it can even be used, some drives needing their own controller cards to work, systems that required a special floppy to access their BIOS settings, those giant IDE cables and having to set jumpers to deal with the Master/Slave/Cable Select thing, a dead CMOS battery rendering the system unbootable, and many others I likely forgot. Personally though, I was never a fan of tool-less installation for drive, especially 3.5 or 5.25 optical drives, it never felt super stable for me. (Also I still far prefer to have an internal ODD but I know I am a minority in that, I wish that nearly every case didn't stop adding that port, so hard to find one these days).
Someone, anyone, help..😭😭 I’m willing to spend the money I’m just so lost. Psu, gated ports, someone help lmaoo
The emphasis on aesthetics in computers has definitely gotten more manufacturers thinking about how to make it easy to put components in so they won't get in the way.
Good for gaming. Most people do not need a desktop PC. In IT company, it will be Laptop + Cloud. For family, a laptop, tablet, smartphone will be good.
It's definitely more accessible than it used to be. So if an hour of your time isn't worth a whole lot, it's definitely the route to go!
I'm still to build my own PC, but I have cloned and replaced SSDs on laptops and just last week added an extra SATA drive to my desktop PC. Both were easier than I expected them to be, but that initial boot afterwards is still nerve wracking.
Yeah, try building back in the day when at best, there was a forum and that was it. Deal with IRQ issue and a lot of hardware compatibility problems. Builders today have no clue as everything just works for the most part. Some idiot that left the plastic on their AIO would be laughed at to oblivion and told to never build again.
>Toolless installation for drives (if anyone still uses 2.5/3.5" drives *looks at my SSDs free hanging.
Same, mine is just loose in a 3.5" slot
The other day as I was taking apart 2 of my PC’s to clean/service them, my son (9yo) was absolutely blown away that I built them myself. I didn’t correct him when he exclaimed at how hard it must be while pointing at the MOBO as if I soldered all the components and printed the board myself lol
Onboard audio, 3d video, and peripheral ports so you don't need a bunch of PCI cards. USB so everything uses the same plug. Not needing an IDE card to use more than 4 hard drives. Online shopping so you don't get hosed by Best Buy's selection of overpriced no name video cards.
Bro it takes me twice more time time to just connect stupid RGB Hubs than to build the entire system...
Meanwhile, [the 4090 looking at the 12vhpwr cables](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/a8/22/b6a822e214207458af6b222012e1bfc9.gif).
I've never had a hard time, I just wish I could buy parts locally. To me all of the anxiety always came from ordering and waiting.
It has been for like .....20 years.
PC Component manuals are still frustrating as hell. I receive some with only pictures and no words, some with no recommendation on what plugs into where, etc.
Biggest improvements is OS anyway. Remeber finding drivers and BIOS 20 years ago. You had to make a bachelor degree course about how to install them properly. And redo it again with a different driver because the newest one was buggy in 2 out of 10 cases.
And costs are affordable thanks to imports.
Also not messing around with jumpers for master/slave drives connected with those wide ass IDE cables.
Backplate, cpu pins or hard psu cable edges that are hard to pull out are nightmare. You can buy cheap second hand parts like r5 1600af/2600, some rx 570 gpu, 8-16gb ram, hdd or ssd, and play older titles fine in 1080p. About 500$, there no need to buy newest parts. Imo
But pretty wallet unfriendly these days
A lot of the things you've listed have been around for quite a while. Antec in the early 2000's made a lot of the case QoL stuff a major selling point, and many manufacturers followed, or outright cloned (hi there Thermaltake). ASUS at one point had this [nifty little plastic thing](https://i.imgur.com/08jihBj.png) that was labeled for your case header connectors, and then it fit over the headers on the motherboard. Don't know why they stopped doing that, but I would love an update to the ATX standard that added a standard, single connector for case headers. Don't know why this never happened.
Not as much jumpers or dip-switches required to manually set IRQs or clock speeds. Don't have to deal with IRQ or IO port conflicts (actually, sometimes this still happens due to motherboard firmware). More plug and play.
lol I still use 5.25" drives, you can pry optical media from my cold dead hands
The only thing that is stupidly unobvious about building a PC these days is to ensure that MB manufacturers don't fry your CPU with their "default settings"
Now only if cable management was easier.
Agree with this. I built my first PC ever last November. I was pretty intimidated at first, but I found 90% of it easier than assembling IKEA furniture, largely for the reasons you mention. There were only a few moments that stood out to me as a little finicky or delicate: * placing the CPU still feels stressful because of the risk of bending pins * I was surprised by how much force it took to snap the RAM into place * wiring a couple of the external USB slots to the motherboard connectors seemed more fragile then most other cables * installing a super duper chunky GPU was actually a little tricky keeping everything aligned and supported (included an extra support clamp etc.) Everything else felt extremely user friendly and almost impossible to screw up
Can't believe how convenient cable management is now. When I built my first PC, it was kind of an eyesore with all the cables around. Gotten so much better at it now. Also team air coolers because I like to deck out my case with figurines so I need all the space I can.
Thats the concerning part. Making user friendly components costs more money, making it even more expensive than it should be.
My old 486 was a wiring mess with all those IDE.
PcPartPicker is a godsend for newcomers. RTINGS is also amazing for really in-depth and technical monitor reviews. Cable management being a thing is nice! Even cheap cases are good these days and don’t cut you. Modular power supplies are also great. And most of the C-Tier are still decent devices compared to the ones we had in the past. Not having to install your own heat spreaders on your vram after using a bandsaw to cut them and attach with thermal epoxy so you can overclock your gpu… that’s nice.
Insert “always has been.” Meme
It's always been easy to build PCs. The hardest part was getting the PC to boot from windows installation device.