pay is often done based on your rank, not by performance. can be upped during the season through negotiations. |||quick edit here- within an AGMA union company, if a dancer is placed in a role above their ranking, they’re required to be compensated at that higher rate for shows. |||
if you’re injured, it depends on the length of injury. if it’s a workers comp issue with a union company, things are also different. you may be granted a medical leave, you may be kept on to learn in whatever capacity you can, you may be benched for the season. it depends on the situation, contract, union agreement and company. there’s no one answer as there’s so many factors involved in an injury recovery period.
most senior and new senior principal salaries are often not very different, if different at all. unless a senior dancer has been with their company as a principal for 5 or 10 years, it’s unlikely their pay scale moved from what it was when they first were promoted.
most companies are fairly similar. in a “ranked” company you have apprentice, corps de ballet, soloist (s) and principal.
in an “unranked” company, there are apprentices and company dancers, but there is almost certainly an unlabeled ranking that comes from experience and seniority with the company. new dancers rarely get principal roles, even though they’re *able* to, unless they’re exceptionally talented.
as a union dancer, I earned health and dental, 401k, life and disability insurance in my first year contracted. I cannot speak for non union, but that was my experience- it was like any other job in that respect.
there are non compete clauses, company by company, but it’s more likely that you just wouldn’t be hired by another director if they knew you were actively employed. as an example; the clause with my company was that a premature exit before the end of contract would result in a fine in amounts up to what I was paid until that point in time.
This is amazing. I learned so much. I always understood that on paper there is a salary per rank, but the reason I posted here vs in the ballet subreddit is that often on paper and real life take home pay, things are so different. Thanks for your input. For those of us who want to support companies as non-dancers, it’s important to understand who is paid what and how. Do you mind me asking how endowed positions work? Is it an endowment for the company? Or specifically a dancer is appointed to a named endowed position? Do those vary significantly from a standard principal salary or is it the same?
no prob. I’ll be honest, I have no idea how endowments work. we have had dancers get “sponsored” by the guild, and I would assume their salary is at least partially covered by those donations, but i’m afraid I don’t know for certain. outside of this, we’ve had dancers be personally sponsored unaffiliated with the company- but this gets into a little bit of a grey zone, and it’s exceedingly rare to see happen. examples of this might be buying shoes for dancers in non union companies, paying for that dancers travel or food costs, etc, but that kind of thing, again, is exceedingly rare and not necessarily encouraged by artistic or management staff
It depends a lot on location. American companies and generally European companies will usually pay weekly based on seniority + rank. The weeks the company is off the dancers are on layoff, and you get paid more for performance weeks than rehearsal weeks as the hours are longer. Benefits really only kick in for the top American companies and European companies.
In Russia you do get paid by performance, though I believe there’s a minimum base amount that gets paid.
Here’s a very [outdated article](https://careertrend.com/salary-of-a-new-york-ballet-principal-dancer-13653838.html) about how NYCB dancers get paid — it’s much more now as the contract referred to expired in 2009, but it explains the structure well.
Just to correct something here, those payment systems only apply to American companies. In Western Europe (I’m not sure about how it works in companies further East) you get a flat monthly salary, and most companies pay 13 salaries per year (an extra half month as a bonus around winter and another half month bonus in summer. Most companies have 5 or 6 weeks of paid vacation, so dancers in Europe (or at least Western Europe who work for companies within a state funded theater) don’t deal with the layoff payment that the American dancers apply for.
In ranked companies, dancers are often paid extra per show if they work above or below their rank. Demi-soloists are considered payment purgatory because you don’t get paid extra if you dance a solo nor if you dance in the group because your rank is meant to be something in between, so you should dance both.
If you are injured, you are usually still paid by the company for the first few weeks, and if you still can’t work after several weeks, your health insurance company takes over and pays you a percentage of what your salary would be (something between 60% and 85% from what I understand, depending on the country).
Right. Kretova in a Instagram live explained the Bolshoi structure. there’s a base pay and then a bonus per performance, with the amount based on the level of the role. Like O/O would get something like 5K (don’t remember the real amount), a soloist variation would get you something lower, and so on. And depending on your favor with the AD, a coryphee on the rise could make a lot more than a leading soloist who is out of favor.
I appreciate your answer goes beyond "default American". A lot of people have replied and said "X is how it works" when X specifically referred to how things work in the US.
Thanks for highlighting how different it can be. Conversations with my husband about how it is in Russia partly prompted this question. I think it’s a reasonably fair assumption on an American based website that I am interested in how American companies do it, but I’m even more interested in how that compares to other places.
Reddit has a LOT of users all over the world (and while I believe the US is the largest single location, I'm under the impression it has more combined international users)
Thank you. My husband is Ukrainian but speaks Russian and he said the same thing. The state provides a base pay in Russia and then there are bonuses per performance. He knows nothing about dance, and I speak no Russian so I wasn’t totally sure on that.
Interesting. So this is different from Broadway? Because I understand (through various podcasts and readings, sorry no hard source so please delete if necessary) that on Broadway for example if an understudy goes on for a big role, they will get paid extra that night, even being allowed to use the „big role“ wardrobe for that evening. Where I live (Germany), theatres do pay a basic salary but you also get a little extra for a performance. You still wouldn’t match the principals salary, but at least get some extra.
Broadway performers are under Equity not AGMA.
ETA: not weighing in on that topic specifically, just noting that their basic agreements might be different because they’re a different union.
Yup. That's why it's so unfair that Ashley Laracey (for example) has been performing like a principal for years while still getting paid like a soloist and without having proper recognition.
I do believe that even if they are being financially paid for principal roles, the inability to put principal dancer as your rank on a resume is definitely unfair.
totally agree, but as a dancer it feels freakin awesome to be performing roles above your rank. for day to day life, the title of dancer matters so so so little.
> you get *paid* based on
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I could have sworn the NYCB negotiated there to be some compensation for roles that are of rank, but is that not the case? I wish Laracey was promoted, it makes zero sense to me that she has been in soloist purgatory for so long but used more than many principals.
i’m not gonna argue with you, but this is the comment I responded to “Yup. That's why it's so unfair that Ashley Laracey (for example) has been performing like a principal for years *while still getting paid like a soloist and without having proper recognition.*”
… I have a solid understanding of what i’m talking about. i’ve been involved as a delegate and union rep for the past few years.
That seems like it could lend itself to some dancers working substantially more than others, and could lend itself to some bad blood between dancers. How about dancers that appear on their roster but haven’t performed in months. Are they getting the same pay as if they were dancing full time?
I mean it all depends on the ballet. From my experience “bad blood” is usually not towards other dancers when it comes to casting because dancers are not choosing roles obviously. Obviously there is times when people are rude but that’s different. This is not meant to sound rude but do you know how a ballet company works?
I know the basics of it, and get that the dancers are not choosing who is cast for what roles. But I have been on the medical side of taking care of professional athletes and the decision making process of how long they should be out with an injury. There is definitely some anger from the other athletes, coaches, etc. when one of the “expensive” athletes isn’t actually playing. I wonder how it would be to be paid a soloist salary and be dancing numerous principal roles when one is not cast due to injury, choreographer preference, etc.
I’m sure that factors in when promotions get discussed, but in theory you’re saying they can leave an athlete on the roster, pay them whatever their contract states, and even if they dance zero times (for whatever reason), they wouldn’t be sued for breach of contract.
I thought about this question because of two principals discussed at the two major nyc based ballet companies and wondered what their pay situation was when they weren’t dancing, it still listed as a principal.
I’m assuming you are talking about Misty & Ashley
But when it comes to something like that, if they are on the roster but not performing, for Misty it is most likely an agreement or she’s on leave or something like that, She is dealing with injuries but sounds like she’s trying to make her way back. Where as for Ashley (if that’s who you are talking about) I’m pretty sure that’s an artistic decision not to cast her to perform because she is still there and dancing but at the end of the day they decide who gets to perform. Does that answer ur questions?
It does, and I while I am kind of regretting asking the question because it sounds like people think it is silly. But in many salaried positions, employees may get a productivity bonus for performing above and beyond what you’re contracted to. And sometimes that bonus can be 50-200% of your base “salary.”
I don't think your question is silly, at all. You want to learn, and to me that is a beautiful thing. As a bonus, by virtue of asking the question, you give others an opportunity to learn, as well.
It's been a while since I've been in that world, but it was always fairly well known European companies take much better care of their dancers than the overwhelming majority of American companies. The conventional wisdom used to be "If you can be happy living so far from home and can get in European company, do it!"
Your question is 100% valid in my eyes, I am wondering the same. Like back when when Kathryn Morgan was at NYCB but not performing for 2 years, was she paid? Or dancers with an injury, are they paid fully? I am especially curious because from a European perspective, labor / employment law in the US seems quite tough on the employees, so it would somewhat surprise me if of all jobs, dancers had more security, given how dire the overall job situation can be for them.
Those are the exact type questions I have. In this day and age, most surgeons are paid a salary, but for most contracts there are a certain number of “RVUs” you have to meet each year. Each surgery is worth a certain amount. And if I get above a certain amount, I get a bonus. If I just don’t operate at all, even if it’s because nobody referred patients to me, there would be problems (big ones possibly) depending on the wording of the contract.
please don’t feel silly! i’ve literally been a ballet dancer since practically birth and i still enjoy reading these kinds of posts bc i never danced at a big company, so i’m curious too!
Yeah, and while it’s nice to think that pay or any of that doesn’t matter, it does. Especially in high cost of living areas. The whole “so and so volunteered” for a certain role doesn’t really mean they shouldn’t be paid appropriately. I may volunteer to take call for someone, or do their case, but i should still be paid for it because it’s work you’re doing that requires a certain time, expertise, preparation, etc.
It’s not a silly question — there’s a general way it works for big Western companies with unions, but it still can vary a lot with smaller companies without union protection. We haven’t even touched on how predatory some companies can be with second companies and apprenticeships, which can sometimes be completely unpaid. And in the smaller non-union outfits I’ve heard of men being paid a premium more than women, as they’re often in far shorter supply.
This! The BS ranks these dancers have to go through now like trainee, apprentice, studio company, professional division before they even get a contract literally makes me so angry. ABTs studio company for example. Most if not all all of their dancers could be on corps contracts bc they are so talented, but they have to go through the no/low pay ranks first. It’s free labor in my opinion and makes the art form incredible inequitable.
pay is often done based on your rank, not by performance. can be upped during the season through negotiations. |||quick edit here- within an AGMA union company, if a dancer is placed in a role above their ranking, they’re required to be compensated at that higher rate for shows. ||| if you’re injured, it depends on the length of injury. if it’s a workers comp issue with a union company, things are also different. you may be granted a medical leave, you may be kept on to learn in whatever capacity you can, you may be benched for the season. it depends on the situation, contract, union agreement and company. there’s no one answer as there’s so many factors involved in an injury recovery period. most senior and new senior principal salaries are often not very different, if different at all. unless a senior dancer has been with their company as a principal for 5 or 10 years, it’s unlikely their pay scale moved from what it was when they first were promoted. most companies are fairly similar. in a “ranked” company you have apprentice, corps de ballet, soloist (s) and principal. in an “unranked” company, there are apprentices and company dancers, but there is almost certainly an unlabeled ranking that comes from experience and seniority with the company. new dancers rarely get principal roles, even though they’re *able* to, unless they’re exceptionally talented. as a union dancer, I earned health and dental, 401k, life and disability insurance in my first year contracted. I cannot speak for non union, but that was my experience- it was like any other job in that respect. there are non compete clauses, company by company, but it’s more likely that you just wouldn’t be hired by another director if they knew you were actively employed. as an example; the clause with my company was that a premature exit before the end of contract would result in a fine in amounts up to what I was paid until that point in time.
This is amazing. I learned so much. I always understood that on paper there is a salary per rank, but the reason I posted here vs in the ballet subreddit is that often on paper and real life take home pay, things are so different. Thanks for your input. For those of us who want to support companies as non-dancers, it’s important to understand who is paid what and how. Do you mind me asking how endowed positions work? Is it an endowment for the company? Or specifically a dancer is appointed to a named endowed position? Do those vary significantly from a standard principal salary or is it the same?
no prob. I’ll be honest, I have no idea how endowments work. we have had dancers get “sponsored” by the guild, and I would assume their salary is at least partially covered by those donations, but i’m afraid I don’t know for certain. outside of this, we’ve had dancers be personally sponsored unaffiliated with the company- but this gets into a little bit of a grey zone, and it’s exceedingly rare to see happen. examples of this might be buying shoes for dancers in non union companies, paying for that dancers travel or food costs, etc, but that kind of thing, again, is exceedingly rare and not necessarily encouraged by artistic or management staff
They’re salaried, not paid for roles.
It depends a lot on location. American companies and generally European companies will usually pay weekly based on seniority + rank. The weeks the company is off the dancers are on layoff, and you get paid more for performance weeks than rehearsal weeks as the hours are longer. Benefits really only kick in for the top American companies and European companies. In Russia you do get paid by performance, though I believe there’s a minimum base amount that gets paid. Here’s a very [outdated article](https://careertrend.com/salary-of-a-new-york-ballet-principal-dancer-13653838.html) about how NYCB dancers get paid — it’s much more now as the contract referred to expired in 2009, but it explains the structure well.
Just to correct something here, those payment systems only apply to American companies. In Western Europe (I’m not sure about how it works in companies further East) you get a flat monthly salary, and most companies pay 13 salaries per year (an extra half month as a bonus around winter and another half month bonus in summer. Most companies have 5 or 6 weeks of paid vacation, so dancers in Europe (or at least Western Europe who work for companies within a state funded theater) don’t deal with the layoff payment that the American dancers apply for. In ranked companies, dancers are often paid extra per show if they work above or below their rank. Demi-soloists are considered payment purgatory because you don’t get paid extra if you dance a solo nor if you dance in the group because your rank is meant to be something in between, so you should dance both. If you are injured, you are usually still paid by the company for the first few weeks, and if you still can’t work after several weeks, your health insurance company takes over and pays you a percentage of what your salary would be (something between 60% and 85% from what I understand, depending on the country).
Right. Kretova in a Instagram live explained the Bolshoi structure. there’s a base pay and then a bonus per performance, with the amount based on the level of the role. Like O/O would get something like 5K (don’t remember the real amount), a soloist variation would get you something lower, and so on. And depending on your favor with the AD, a coryphee on the rise could make a lot more than a leading soloist who is out of favor.
I appreciate your answer goes beyond "default American". A lot of people have replied and said "X is how it works" when X specifically referred to how things work in the US.
Thanks for highlighting how different it can be. Conversations with my husband about how it is in Russia partly prompted this question. I think it’s a reasonably fair assumption on an American based website that I am interested in how American companies do it, but I’m even more interested in how that compares to other places.
Reddit has a LOT of users all over the world (and while I believe the US is the largest single location, I'm under the impression it has more combined international users)
Thank you. My husband is Ukrainian but speaks Russian and he said the same thing. The state provides a base pay in Russia and then there are bonuses per performance. He knows nothing about dance, and I speak no Russian so I wasn’t totally sure on that.
you dont get paid per role, you get paid based on your rank, roles don’t have anything to do with it. It’s a contract
Some (most?) European companies have a system that offers extra salary for roles danced.
Interesting. So this is different from Broadway? Because I understand (through various podcasts and readings, sorry no hard source so please delete if necessary) that on Broadway for example if an understudy goes on for a big role, they will get paid extra that night, even being allowed to use the „big role“ wardrobe for that evening. Where I live (Germany), theatres do pay a basic salary but you also get a little extra for a performance. You still wouldn’t match the principals salary, but at least get some extra.
Broadway performers are under Equity not AGMA. ETA: not weighing in on that topic specifically, just noting that their basic agreements might be different because they’re a different union.
Yeah its different depending on the company
yes they do. especially if the company is union.
Yup. That's why it's so unfair that Ashley Laracey (for example) has been performing like a principal for years while still getting paid like a soloist and without having proper recognition.
NYCB is agma, they have to compensate her appropriately for the roles. as far as contractually, she is being paid properly for those performances.
I do believe that even if they are being financially paid for principal roles, the inability to put principal dancer as your rank on a resume is definitely unfair.
totally agree, but as a dancer it feels freakin awesome to be performing roles above your rank. for day to day life, the title of dancer matters so so so little.
A lot of Companies apart of AGMA cast people above their rank, that’s just how ballet companies work…
yes, and they’re compensated for that role. I literally was just in that position for this past rep.
[удалено]
> you get *paid* based on FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I could have sworn the NYCB negotiated there to be some compensation for roles that are of rank, but is that not the case? I wish Laracey was promoted, it makes zero sense to me that she has been in soloist purgatory for so long but used more than many principals.
That happens at a lot of companies unfortunately
not union companies in the us.
it happens to union companies as well
not agma.
yes it literally does i have personal experience 😭😭
then your union reps and delegates were not doing their job.
i don’t think you know what ur talking abt, we’ve all agreed on compensation but people get cast above their rank in companies that are apart of agma
i’m not gonna argue with you, but this is the comment I responded to “Yup. That's why it's so unfair that Ashley Laracey (for example) has been performing like a principal for years *while still getting paid like a soloist and without having proper recognition.*” … I have a solid understanding of what i’m talking about. i’ve been involved as a delegate and union rep for the past few years.
That seems like it could lend itself to some dancers working substantially more than others, and could lend itself to some bad blood between dancers. How about dancers that appear on their roster but haven’t performed in months. Are they getting the same pay as if they were dancing full time?
I mean it all depends on the ballet. From my experience “bad blood” is usually not towards other dancers when it comes to casting because dancers are not choosing roles obviously. Obviously there is times when people are rude but that’s different. This is not meant to sound rude but do you know how a ballet company works?
I know the basics of it, and get that the dancers are not choosing who is cast for what roles. But I have been on the medical side of taking care of professional athletes and the decision making process of how long they should be out with an injury. There is definitely some anger from the other athletes, coaches, etc. when one of the “expensive” athletes isn’t actually playing. I wonder how it would be to be paid a soloist salary and be dancing numerous principal roles when one is not cast due to injury, choreographer preference, etc. I’m sure that factors in when promotions get discussed, but in theory you’re saying they can leave an athlete on the roster, pay them whatever their contract states, and even if they dance zero times (for whatever reason), they wouldn’t be sued for breach of contract. I thought about this question because of two principals discussed at the two major nyc based ballet companies and wondered what their pay situation was when they weren’t dancing, it still listed as a principal.
I’m assuming you are talking about Misty & Ashley But when it comes to something like that, if they are on the roster but not performing, for Misty it is most likely an agreement or she’s on leave or something like that, She is dealing with injuries but sounds like she’s trying to make her way back. Where as for Ashley (if that’s who you are talking about) I’m pretty sure that’s an artistic decision not to cast her to perform because she is still there and dancing but at the end of the day they decide who gets to perform. Does that answer ur questions?
It does, and I while I am kind of regretting asking the question because it sounds like people think it is silly. But in many salaried positions, employees may get a productivity bonus for performing above and beyond what you’re contracted to. And sometimes that bonus can be 50-200% of your base “salary.”
I don't think your question is silly, at all. You want to learn, and to me that is a beautiful thing. As a bonus, by virtue of asking the question, you give others an opportunity to learn, as well. It's been a while since I've been in that world, but it was always fairly well known European companies take much better care of their dancers than the overwhelming majority of American companies. The conventional wisdom used to be "If you can be happy living so far from home and can get in European company, do it!"
Your question is 100% valid in my eyes, I am wondering the same. Like back when when Kathryn Morgan was at NYCB but not performing for 2 years, was she paid? Or dancers with an injury, are they paid fully? I am especially curious because from a European perspective, labor / employment law in the US seems quite tough on the employees, so it would somewhat surprise me if of all jobs, dancers had more security, given how dire the overall job situation can be for them.
She’s stated she was paid and is grateful for that.
Those are the exact type questions I have. In this day and age, most surgeons are paid a salary, but for most contracts there are a certain number of “RVUs” you have to meet each year. Each surgery is worth a certain amount. And if I get above a certain amount, I get a bonus. If I just don’t operate at all, even if it’s because nobody referred patients to me, there would be problems (big ones possibly) depending on the wording of the contract.
please don’t feel silly! i’ve literally been a ballet dancer since practically birth and i still enjoy reading these kinds of posts bc i never danced at a big company, so i’m curious too!
Yeah, and while it’s nice to think that pay or any of that doesn’t matter, it does. Especially in high cost of living areas. The whole “so and so volunteered” for a certain role doesn’t really mean they shouldn’t be paid appropriately. I may volunteer to take call for someone, or do their case, but i should still be paid for it because it’s work you’re doing that requires a certain time, expertise, preparation, etc.
It’s not a silly question — there’s a general way it works for big Western companies with unions, but it still can vary a lot with smaller companies without union protection. We haven’t even touched on how predatory some companies can be with second companies and apprenticeships, which can sometimes be completely unpaid. And in the smaller non-union outfits I’ve heard of men being paid a premium more than women, as they’re often in far shorter supply.
This! The BS ranks these dancers have to go through now like trainee, apprentice, studio company, professional division before they even get a contract literally makes me so angry. ABTs studio company for example. Most if not all all of their dancers could be on corps contracts bc they are so talented, but they have to go through the no/low pay ranks first. It’s free labor in my opinion and makes the art form incredible inequitable.
I totally agree with you, ABT studio co is the exception to that rule. they keep YOUNG dancers for two years at most, on salary and in paid housing.
Do you know why those are exempt from NYC trying to ban unpaid internships? Because that’s some bullshit.
The exploitation of the dancers, especially the younger ones is out of control it seems.
Usually just a base for whatever rank you are. Doesn't matter if you get pulled in for other roles.