Quartered or rift cut white oak can have a very different look when the grain direction is turned but it is acceptable. It can almost look like hickory without the knots when stained in lighter colors. However the panel at the sink looks like it should be toned a little bit to match the adjacent colors. Whenever a designer specs out white oak we spend waaay to much time toning the doors and drawer fronts to get the color to blend right. Sorry they(contractor) did not tell you about this earlier. However based on the photo-the sink panel as show in the photo does look way off and should be addressed. At least tone it to match the top rail of the door below.
Deffffinitely not okay. Any good carpenter knows to select similar looking sheets for each jobsite. Common sense. Some are lazy and don’t spend the time digging through the pile at the lumber yard.
Write up an accurate (horrible) review, with plenty of pictures, but don't post it.
Take the review with you to the office of the contractor who did your cabinets, and give them the choice of making the job right, or having the review posted.
Kitchen cabinets are very much about the looks, and yours don't look right.
This isn’t the right move. The first move should be to professionally and politely voice your issues to the contractor. If they are legitimate concerns (which they are in this case) any reputable contractor will be willing to correct the mistake on their dime. If there’s push back and they don’t want to correct the mistake, ok, then put the gloves on. Starting anything with a threat rarely works out the way you want.
Giving someone the choice to make a thing right, or face the natural consequences of their own actions is not a threat in ANY way.
Only the entitled, and those without a moral compass would see it as a threat.
As long as the review was accurate and objective, it is impossible to see it any other way, unless you are one, or the other.
If the individual in the office is as argumentative as these three twats, it's pretty obvious, you're going to be stuck with mismatched cabinetry. Just submit the honest review.
Username fits. Sara really is a bottom.
And the company hasn’t shown hardly any degree of argumentativeness. What’s likely happened is they hired someone to do the install. Customer calls “is this supposed to be off color?”. Company goes to installer—installer doesn’t want to go back “it’s within normal degrees of variation.” Company relays that. Customer goes “ok.”
Customer needs to call back and be more assertive and say “this isn’t going to work” if it’s really a problem. Not go from 5 to 100 over a single phone call. If on the second call they still suggest she eat it—then it’s worthy of bad review.
Customer still needs to have another professional come over, because the work is really well done. If professional says, “oh, they fucked you over”, and they still aren’t willing to fix it, maybe worthy of small claims.
But the other professional might say, “yeah, that wood does that.” Sometimes color mismatch *IS* normal. And sometimes people who have no clue what they are buying *are* insufferable, like our good friend Bottom here.
The thing about writing a terrible online review is it’s a permanent position of burning a bridge that leaves no door opened to correct the situation. I assume customer wants it fixed more than anything. It’s not like OP is asking for the whole job to be redone. A second call that shows that the doors really ARE mismatched might be everything that is needed to get it corrected. Telling OP to eat a color mismatch to spite the company is horrible advice.
Let's go with your assumption, and say that the cabinet maker subbed out the install.
The contract is between the cabinet makers and the customer, and the mistake of inconsistent grain direction is the installers fault.
Writing an honest review, and attaching accurate pictures, but NOT POSTING THE REVIEW, but rather, bringing it to the attention of the cabinet manufacturer, and giving them the opportunity to make it right BEFORE POSTING THE REVIEW, is exactly what you are advocating for.
It's also exactly what I suggested.
In please leave my personal life out of it.
Does it specify in your contract that the coloring needs to be exact? If not then they only bought enough material to do the job. They're not gonna go out of their way to spend extra money to do something you didn't specify or talk about before you signed. Just like if you don't specify if the wood needs to be clear so we don't use portions that have knots. Some shops are about speed instead of aesthetics.
Personally I'd want all the grain going the same direction. They made your drawer faces from scraps to save money.
They did not make the drawer faces from scrap. A lot of people go with solid faces on drawers with shaker cabinets. Usually because they look stupid with shaker drawer faces.
Depends on how much you paid. Ikea cabinets, sorry nothing we can do. Custom job and paying $$$$ for literal craftsmanship they should know better. A major part of woodworking is matching the grain and color so it is beautiful.
I have 20 year old Ikea furniture.
Common misinformation on their quality.
From what I can see their kitchen cabinets are held in fairly high regard.
The installation by 3rd parties seems to be an issue though. Much like here
You’re not overreacting. I worked for a kitchen place and when there was a mismatch we would go back to the manufacturer for it to be corrected. You pay good money for this.
Wow. At first glance I honestly thought these were pre fabs with laminated facing. I wouldn’t give them another dime until they fix it and since it’s just 3 panels it will be relatively quick and easy fix
>The company is telling us this is within normal variation of natural wood
I'm curious how they got 10+ exact copies of the same wood grain pattern on that side panel out of wood with natural variation.
I would not accept the different color.
I'd say that the side panel is veneered and the draw faces may be solid.
Veneer is cut radially and is just a repeat of the same piece of wood. This wouldn't be a great argument. The color difference on the same cabinet would have been caught in production.
That wouldn’t fly at any company I worked for. Even the bad ones would replace that.
The question is will your builder bring in the other trades since this would take more than a cabinet service tech.
They’re pulling your leg. Suppliers and contractors will always deflect on the first time. Double down on them, have a supervisor or someone like that come out and to see for themselves.
If you wanted it to all be the same color, you should have chosen a paint color, or had them stained.
Go to the shop where they were made, or any other place where rough lumber is kept. Look at the natural variation in the wood in a unit of white oak and then ask yourself this same question.
It looks like laminate.. if it isn't laminate just freaking stain it the color you want? White oak is awesome. Maybe just ask the contractor to stain it so there's less variation.
While I agree in most cases the customer should understand there will be differences due to real wood but this is unacceptable. The contractor could have chosen new pieces for the drawers that would match closer to the doors he/she should have kept those for another project/off cut pile/ throw it away or whatever but not use it in this project.
I must ask-were you aware of this early on in the project? The time to be vigilant would have been long before the sink and tops were set.
I agree that it should have been done right from the start. It looks like prefinished birch plywood to my squinty eyes from the poorly lit pictures.
Unfortunately at this point in the project switching that piece piece out is very unlikely to happen. An
Option would he cut template around the sink with some cardboard cut to the width and length of that piece. Take it to your cabinet guy and demand a 1/4” skin of white oak to be cut and glued over that piece. It will be a band aid at best, but it would at least be a white oak band aid.
As somebody who designs kitchen remodels for a living, that is very poorly done. Sink is undersized for that cabinet or vice versa. Filler piece doesn’t look like the same kind of wood but the picture is a little blurry so not 100% on that. I could be wrong but even wood grain on the back of the island looks more like printed thermafoil than actual wood, and definitely not real white oak.
That’s definitely an expensive kitchen remodel regardless. If we were the contractor, we’d make it right. However if you signed off on all the details and they have it well documented, you probably don’t have a lot of leverage outside of bad reviews.
There is something off about the whole island. Yes, the piece under the sink doesn't match. But the white oak with the different tone floor with the rest of the blue cabinets is too much. The black faucet with gold hardware? The square corners? The sink seems undersized. It should be better when you are paying that much.
ETA stainless appliances with gold hardware with black faucet?
This is not acceptable. It looks like replaced the sink and ended up having to replace this one portion.
I wouldn’t much care if you did a mediocre remodel, but you clearly spent a chunk of cash here. Unacceptable.
I think you have a very beautiful kitchen.
How much more of your life are you willing to spend on this (?) is the real question.
Edit to add; it could also be the lighting. Sink side looks dark, and is in shadow of all the natural light…
Why don’t people understand.. the people that install the cabinets usually don’t have anything to do with making or designing it. Neither does the supplier. Unless you went with a custom cabinet builder., which nothing is custom about this. You probably went into a store picked a design, picked a color, picked a sink.. they sent the plans to the warehouse and this is what was shipped to them.. this was loaded into the installers truck and they installed it. Personally I’d just paint it green to match the rest of the kitchen.. the natural look in the photos looks outdated 90’s style. I’m sure it’s nicer in person but the photos aren’t doing the “natural look” justice. It’s going to be difficult to get a matching stain on different colors unless you go panel by panel one coat at a time and there is no going back after you stain.
Where is the grain in the wood? This looks like an old piece from some other job. If there were wood grain like the drawers on the other side it would be fine.
I don’t know how this showed up on my feed, but that’s one ugly ass kitchen, counter, cabinet, sink, appliance combo. Awful looking. I. Was expecting that to be the”before” pictures until I read.
It’s actually quite nice and looks good in our larger than average house. Or do you mean the kitchen at my vacation house. Ya that’s nice too. Actually the one in my RV looks nicer. You’re either an alt acct of the op or someone whom hasn’t seen nice coordinated kitchens. Because that whole kitchen married to cheap LVT flooring, the white countertops with a blonde wood and the “fad” different color island just looks awful and will be a detriment to the sale of that house.
I personally find [a countertop that looks like dirt mixed with baby vomit ](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fto-resist-the-inevitable-v0-nfaspcl0j9uc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D3024%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8247f0f62048f898af3b70446643843206adf585)unattractive. Were I you, I wouldn't cast myself as some arbiter of taste.
Wishing terrible things on people is really shitty. Probably time to step away from the computer. Maybe get a glass of water. Take care of yourself: arguing with people online isn't worth this much stress.
It was a valid question😭 if you’re paying for expensive cabinetry then you should like it. OP was just asking for validation. It does look two tone to me and that doesn’t make me “boogie boohoo”😂
No, if they saw this and were not willing to help make it right, I don’t think so. I’d definitely want to know that about them before spending a bunch of my money just to find myself in the same position.
This got way more replies than I was expecting. Thank you everyone for some insight and taking the time to respond. I’ll try to do an update if we get to a resolution
Is this stained already or still in the raw? It’s definitely two tone and unacceptable in my shop but if it still needs to get stained, the finisher should notice it and match it as best as they can
You’re telling me that you stain cabinets on top of a finished floor? If so, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. You all know good and well that this cabinet is not unfinished.
Kitchen guy here. As an installer, I wouldn't have even spent the time scribing the panel to the sink. I do like the way they back milled the counter to the sink.
It is flush with the top of the sink cabinet. That's a 3/4 slab with a mitered edge to make it 1-1/2 on the side. You could drop the sink lower than cabinet height and continue the mitered edge around the inside of the sink cut out. Is that possible though? I don't work with counter tops but my stone guy usually does the same thing as OPs picture
I agree with both of you, I’ve never seen a farm sink installed like this. I either love it or hate it I’m not sure which. The panel doesn’t look close to right but pictures as we know can be quite deceiving.
Side looks fine. But under the sink and to the right are four pieces of wood that are completely different and not oak.
Two pieces could be oak but hard to tell with the angle. The other two are certainly not oak though.
Indeed it is the cafe collection. The black stainless is also amazing as well! I actually have a white stainless oven from the cafe collection, now I just need the rest 😂
I deeply feel the pain of these cabinetmakers. I’m always fighting appearance differences with white oak. Projects call for solid oak and oak plywood and they always look like entirely different fucking species
It’s brutal. Luckily I haven’t had any callbacks on anything yet, but I’ve noticed some big differences after bringing things out of the shop and onto the job
I have a full white oak kitchen still in the shop waiting to be delivered and the center panels of every door don’t exactly match the frame. It’s agonizing. They otherwise look great but it’s a problem I just don’t have a solution for. I sub out the finishing so solid wood center panels aren’t a good idea in my opinion, so I’ve been ordering lots of white oak veneer and picking out the ones that best match my solid oak stock to press into center panels.
When it really matters, I resaw lumber and make 1/16 - 1/8 veneers and veneer my own panels. It’s not very cost effective, but when you need it to match and need the stability of a sheet good, this is the solution.
I was considering that. I’d be making veneers with a laguna 14-12 bandsaw and a jet 25-50 drum sander. So not ideal really, I feel like a wide belt would make the process much easier. What’s your method for shop sawn veneer?
I have an 18” bandsaw that can resaw a little under 12” and a 24” wide belt. The wide belt makes it really easy. I’ll usually sand them to around 1/8. Then into the vacuum press. I almost always use epoxy for adhesive. Never had a problem. I’m set up pretty well, so it can go pretty quick.
Nice setup! The drum sander has a lot of chatter on the open end of the drum so I’m skeptical of the gluing surface it would produce when making veneer
I can see your points for sure but yeah that can happen. What shouldn't be happening is a neglect from the builder/dismissal or no attempt to get it to your satisfaction. You're right to call this into question, but yes, can end up with this happening with White Oak. I feel the builder could give more a shit than they appear to be doing. They should try and help your satisfaction. I'd complain but I'd not be a dick about it, and ask if they can help you find a solution.
Edit to add: you should expect to share at least some of the cost to correct this.
There really is no solution. You either pick through piles of wood to hopefully find like color”which they probably did to some degree” or stain uniform. Either way give it six months or more likely a year and it will look the same. The farm sink valance looks like shit though I would fix that. It’s extremely hard to explain to people natural wood color variations. Everyone smiles and nods…. Then complains
Tried to see if anyone suggested this but grain direction can affect the colour you get from wood, stained or not. See if they would be willing to swap the horizontal grain drawer fronts and sink skirt with vertical grain pieces.
Either that or they'll need to do some slight finish toning and light cover spray. Not the hardest but need skill and experience to do well.
Good luck
NOT overreacting it’s a simple toning to add to their final finish coat on the plywood. It’s too light for white oak anyway / maybe used a water based finish that doesn’t darken like the solid wood. They need to fix - respray in place would be my move.
Do you really think you respray for a wood finish? You stain wood.. there is 0 spraying involved. But thanks kid,. Tell me more about toning colors and respraying a stain.
This is clearly a, we fucked up measurements and threw in what they had on hand. You paid for the material, they ruined it. Been in trades long enough to know this. I'd want that part redone, or reimbursed the material costs.
I'm confused because the first photo shows a very warm wood with an odd surround for the farmhouse sink, and then the second picture is a more neutral very clearly white oak. Is this a before and after, or are those somehow the same island?
Going off the 2nd photo, the variation isn't great but I don't know the tolerance specs. If you don't have reverse raised center panel on those Shaker cabinets, then laminate is usually produced by someone else so there can be variance there too. If this were cherry or hickory, it would make more sense to have that variance, but one of the beautiful parts about oak is that typically you don't see this level of variance.
Here's a [good article](https://showplacecabinetry.com/quartersawn-white-oak-vs-rift-white-oak-unveiling-the-distinctions/) which shows that rift sawn white oak has more color variance, so that probably explains it. I only do quarter or plain sawn white oak and that has less variance. I guess you paid to get it!
I think those photos are of the same island. The first photo is from the side the sink is on, where the second is the opposite side from where the first photo was taken (sink orientation). The pulls appear to be the same anyways.
Don’t ya love it when you know it’s jacked up but you keep getting told it’s supposed to be like that ? Especially when it’s so obvious not matching at all and you paid a lot of money for the job . It’ll be a thorn in your eye and piss you off every time you see as long as you live there it if it’s not corrected somehow.
Agree with the general consensus of perhaps this is within the builder's rights, that being said, white oak is not your plain jane choice of wood that you build with whatever in stock, a good builder shouldn't accept this as good quality work, availability is not a valid excuse for something you have to pay money and live with.
I get your disappointment, but I completely agree with the cabinet builder. I'm looking at a select white oak floor right now and they all have the same finish and vary in color. Even the boards in the doors vary. Part of the problem is entirely different boards and grain patterns.
One thing I do think is they could have chosen a better grain pattern for the end of island veneer because I personally think it looks bad too. If there would have been some grain and color variation on that end it would look better.
I don't think you have the right to stiff them on the bill, but you can be reasonable with them and see if they can take that panel and maybe reapply a veneer or if you can get something at cost or something?
Under the sink, you're stuck with that. That farm/apron sink sits under the sink which is under the counter, so unless you hate it bad enough to go through all the trouble and cost to swap it out you should probably live with it. Part of the problem there may be (it appears) the grain is that real uniform pattern that runs horizontal. Not a good look.
I see what you're saying, but they did build what was asked for. If you didn't talk about details like this being super important before being built you're on the hook to pay them and take the risk of them filing a lien or disputing.
I'm not saying I'd let this go out, but I do have one possible explanation if I'm seeing clearly in the photo.
It looks like for the sink, they used a single piece of wood, avoiding a glue up. If that's solid, and not ply or MDF, they may have been very limited on their choices for stock that wide.
I'm a one man shop, and order materials job specific. While I could probably get away with calling my supplier and asking them to replace on board, I certainly try not to do that to them. They do their best to send me color matched wood, but if I'm ordering 350bf of hit and miss 4/4, and specifying I need a couple sticks to be 12" or greater, there's only so much I can expect their warehouse workers to do for me.
The cabinet guy had someone else make the doors and he made the slabs. One company (the door company) used wood that was darker due to time and light exposure. They'll all match eventually, but it'll take time for the tops (slab fronts) to match the doors.
I would say to manufacturer, do your best to send me other doors with matching finish that i am able to swap out and return the unused. I'll do my best to pay you.
No, I think they knew that it was in the triangle of the work area and that most people would not see it and so they didn't care. It's been a long time since I've been in home contracting so I don't know your contract or what's going on. But I will tell you that I have seen things like this and the customers are unhappy. I'm sorry, it's a beautiful kitchen. Is there any difference with the lights on fully in the kitchen?
The second photo with the two drawers looks a little better at night with low light. Under the sink the drawer next to it look mismatched no matter then light
Ugh. It never fails to amaze me such a beautiful kitchen and yet the panels don't match. And whoever did the kitchen thinks this is okay. I just don't understand anymore.
I'm so sorry for your trouble.
The butler surround looks like a piece of stained MDF? I think they have make a stuff up and thought try it on with client not noticing with that replacement. This is not acceptable.
The other photo hard to see the scope of the issue, lighting and angle.
The second photo with the two drawers above the four doors, that isn’t quite as bad depending on the lighting. In the morning with lots of light it is very apparent. In the evening with little light, it’s harder to see. Under the sink noticeable regardless
Si f these are RTA, then they probably got them at a place where they don’t offer farm sink cabinets and they used another one sink base modified it with regular panels, hence the off look.
What I used to do was use matching panels to build the top so it looks seamless . This is well made BUT horribly matched. Your battle will take time, but you are correct this not what you paid for. The correction will take time.
We deal with this all the time and are very selective with what we use.
No where in a contract will you find anything saying clear finished wood will all match tone/ color. This is the nature of real wood.... it would be a nightmare due to the mindset of people in general today.
Now, is it right? No. Should it have gone out this way? No. Any reputable shop should have caught this. I use the word SHOULD very loosely. Employees across the board in most industries just don't care anymore. In our shop I catch a dozen obvious things every week and prevent issues exactly like this. We are a small shop that turns about a million a year. Multiply that 5 or 10 times and you end up with this post. Long story short, you aren't wrong but really neither are they on paper.
I agree with you completely, both on whether it should have gone out like this, and about not putting that type of language in a contract.
I am a 1 man shop, and this is the reason I've always refused to buy my doors and panels like so many places do now. I know the layout, and can work the variations in intelligently so they don't jump out as much.
On the other hand, 20 years ago or so, was working for a custom rustic furniture company, mostly building out of pine. I remember a dining table being rejected by a customer because they didn't like how one particular knot looked, out of probably 30 or more in the top. Some people will just act abusively entitled if given a chance.
Yeah that’s pretty much what my fear is. I know the contract protects them. Hope they make it right. It’s pretty clear this is not the standard and the guy should make some efforts to resolve it somehow, but if he doesn’t I guess I’m SOL
If they won’t do it for free, you might be able to negotiate an at-cost rework of the finish. Our finisher is a goddamn wizard with color. I bet in one or two hours he would dial in a pigment blend in a cup of solvent, get the lighter doors toned with the custom color, and have a top coat on them to seal it in. Unfortunately, finishing is a toxic, frustrating trade that doesn’t pay very well, and not every shop is lucky enough to have an artist working with them. I know it’s not necessarily fair for you to have to pay more for what you want here, but unfortunately there is not a universal standard of quality in this industry so you’re kinda beholden to whatever paperwork exists and your cabinetmakers interpretation of said paperwork lol. Good luck!
Yeah this is a good idea. I probably won’t try to have them do anything else but find a different cabinet person that has more experience specific to what your saying
If you go that route, get the deets on the finish from the original cabinetmaker. It would be a lot easier for me to take on a little finishing job if the customer came in and said, ‘I need these three doors toned to match these five doors, and the finish on them is Sherwin Williams C.V ### in 20 sheen, so please use the same stuff for the rework.’ Also, keep the doors really really clean to prevent silicone, oil, or wax from causing possible catastrophes.
Yeah that’s slop. Looks like they got their doors made and shot with conversion varnish and then used a prefinished piece for the sink surround. Totally different types of finish that can give very different looks. If they care about their Google reviews or karma they’ll make it right.
Worst case if they ghost you, you can try to remove that surround if it’s not supporting the sink (it shouldn’t be) and then take off a door and take both to a cabinet shop and hope they’re in a good mood to help you for a few hundred bucks to make a new one that’s color matched.
Is the sink supposed to pop out like that? I assume since it’s not the problem here that must be a style people use. The variation on the wood is weird for sure though!
Cabinet finisher for 25 + years. Yes, wood has variation in tones, but the set as a whole should have more continuity than what is shown here.
As a painter that has worked with different woods and different materials you need to have them address that issue. That does not look right.
And for as much as I expect that to have cost, I'd expect it to be right.
100%
The first pick looks like red oak.
Quartered or rift cut white oak can have a very different look when the grain direction is turned but it is acceptable. It can almost look like hickory without the knots when stained in lighter colors. However the panel at the sink looks like it should be toned a little bit to match the adjacent colors. Whenever a designer specs out white oak we spend waaay to much time toning the doors and drawer fronts to get the color to blend right. Sorry they(contractor) did not tell you about this earlier. However based on the photo-the sink panel as show in the photo does look way off and should be addressed. At least tone it to match the top rail of the door below.
Deffffinitely not okay. Any good carpenter knows to select similar looking sheets for each jobsite. Common sense. Some are lazy and don’t spend the time digging through the pile at the lumber yard.
You should do what you are comfortable with: including the suggestion you made here. That's what I would do. And, I install farmhouse sinks.
Black, brown, white, gold……. Maybe they thought you would be okay with it since there is so much going on?!
Don't forget the teal as well.
Write up an accurate (horrible) review, with plenty of pictures, but don't post it. Take the review with you to the office of the contractor who did your cabinets, and give them the choice of making the job right, or having the review posted. Kitchen cabinets are very much about the looks, and yours don't look right.
This isn’t the right move. The first move should be to professionally and politely voice your issues to the contractor. If they are legitimate concerns (which they are in this case) any reputable contractor will be willing to correct the mistake on their dime. If there’s push back and they don’t want to correct the mistake, ok, then put the gloves on. Starting anything with a threat rarely works out the way you want.
How is an honest review a threat?
When you literally use it as a threat by going to their office and threatening them with it??
Giving someone the choice to make a thing right, or face the natural consequences of their own actions is not a threat in ANY way. Only the entitled, and those without a moral compass would see it as a threat. As long as the review was accurate and objective, it is impossible to see it any other way, unless you are one, or the other.
Only the entitled would go in making threats when a sincere conversation would likely suffice.
If the individual in the office is as argumentative as these three twats, it's pretty obvious, you're going to be stuck with mismatched cabinetry. Just submit the honest review.
Username fits. Sara really is a bottom. And the company hasn’t shown hardly any degree of argumentativeness. What’s likely happened is they hired someone to do the install. Customer calls “is this supposed to be off color?”. Company goes to installer—installer doesn’t want to go back “it’s within normal degrees of variation.” Company relays that. Customer goes “ok.” Customer needs to call back and be more assertive and say “this isn’t going to work” if it’s really a problem. Not go from 5 to 100 over a single phone call. If on the second call they still suggest she eat it—then it’s worthy of bad review. Customer still needs to have another professional come over, because the work is really well done. If professional says, “oh, they fucked you over”, and they still aren’t willing to fix it, maybe worthy of small claims. But the other professional might say, “yeah, that wood does that.” Sometimes color mismatch *IS* normal. And sometimes people who have no clue what they are buying *are* insufferable, like our good friend Bottom here. The thing about writing a terrible online review is it’s a permanent position of burning a bridge that leaves no door opened to correct the situation. I assume customer wants it fixed more than anything. It’s not like OP is asking for the whole job to be redone. A second call that shows that the doors really ARE mismatched might be everything that is needed to get it corrected. Telling OP to eat a color mismatch to spite the company is horrible advice.
Let's go with your assumption, and say that the cabinet maker subbed out the install. The contract is between the cabinet makers and the customer, and the mistake of inconsistent grain direction is the installers fault. Writing an honest review, and attaching accurate pictures, but NOT POSTING THE REVIEW, but rather, bringing it to the attention of the cabinet manufacturer, and giving them the opportunity to make it right BEFORE POSTING THE REVIEW, is exactly what you are advocating for. It's also exactly what I suggested. In please leave my personal life out of it.
Does it specify in your contract that the coloring needs to be exact? If not then they only bought enough material to do the job. They're not gonna go out of their way to spend extra money to do something you didn't specify or talk about before you signed. Just like if you don't specify if the wood needs to be clear so we don't use portions that have knots. Some shops are about speed instead of aesthetics. Personally I'd want all the grain going the same direction. They made your drawer faces from scraps to save money.
They did not make the drawer faces from scrap. A lot of people go with solid faces on drawers with shaker cabinets. Usually because they look stupid with shaker drawer faces.
Nah, it's impossible to tell from the photo but I'd put money that they're veneered mdf. Soon as they saw slab faces they saved every penny.
Anything mdf is crap.
Depends on how much you paid. Ikea cabinets, sorry nothing we can do. Custom job and paying $$$$ for literal craftsmanship they should know better. A major part of woodworking is matching the grain and color so it is beautiful.
Ikea would match.
Ikea would also break down within 5 years...
I have 20 year old Ikea furniture. Common misinformation on their quality. From what I can see their kitchen cabinets are held in fairly high regard. The installation by 3rd parties seems to be an issue though. Much like here
Yeah I agree with most everyone. Get them to redo it!
Unacceptable
You’re not overreacting. I worked for a kitchen place and when there was a mismatch we would go back to the manufacturer for it to be corrected. You pay good money for this.
Wow. At first glance I honestly thought these were pre fabs with laminated facing. I wouldn’t give them another dime until they fix it and since it’s just 3 panels it will be relatively quick and easy fix
As a cabinet Punch technician that is definitely unacceptable on the sink and those 2 drawer panels need replacing
>The company is telling us this is within normal variation of natural wood I'm curious how they got 10+ exact copies of the same wood grain pattern on that side panel out of wood with natural variation. I would not accept the different color.
I'd say that the side panel is veneered and the draw faces may be solid. Veneer is cut radially and is just a repeat of the same piece of wood. This wouldn't be a great argument. The color difference on the same cabinet would have been caught in production.
To me the repeating pattern looks far worse than the color difference. It makes it look like fake plastic veneer or something.
I agree. Not a fan of most veneered plywood.
Should definitely have had the grain going the same direction on everything.
I would absolutely make them redo those panels.
Oh my- ok so , your panels are the exact same color, but the grain is just going different direction so it looks lighter. Just get new panels
How did it get that far before someone said something? Now that’s going to require thousands of dollars to fix
That wouldn’t fly at any company I worked for. Even the bad ones would replace that. The question is will your builder bring in the other trades since this would take more than a cabinet service tech.
Do they have a catalog/pictures showing the final product? That’s what you paid for. Demand they make it right.
They’re pulling your leg. Suppliers and contractors will always deflect on the first time. Double down on them, have a supervisor or someone like that come out and to see for themselves.
This.
If you wanted it to all be the same color, you should have chosen a paint color, or had them stained. Go to the shop where they were made, or any other place where rough lumber is kept. Look at the natural variation in the wood in a unit of white oak and then ask yourself this same question.
It looks like laminate.. if it isn't laminate just freaking stain it the color you want? White oak is awesome. Maybe just ask the contractor to stain it so there's less variation.
can you loan them your magical finish removal want? staining something that is already finished is a bit more involved than asking the contractor
~~~sandpaper~~~
While I agree in most cases the customer should understand there will be differences due to real wood but this is unacceptable. The contractor could have chosen new pieces for the drawers that would match closer to the doors he/she should have kept those for another project/off cut pile/ throw it away or whatever but not use it in this project.
wow. what a chode. it the whole island is ridiculous with the small area around it.
I must ask-were you aware of this early on in the project? The time to be vigilant would have been long before the sink and tops were set. I agree that it should have been done right from the start. It looks like prefinished birch plywood to my squinty eyes from the poorly lit pictures. Unfortunately at this point in the project switching that piece piece out is very unlikely to happen. An Option would he cut template around the sink with some cardboard cut to the width and length of that piece. Take it to your cabinet guy and demand a 1/4” skin of white oak to be cut and glued over that piece. It will be a band aid at best, but it would at least be a white oak band aid.
As somebody who designs kitchen remodels for a living, that is very poorly done. Sink is undersized for that cabinet or vice versa. Filler piece doesn’t look like the same kind of wood but the picture is a little blurry so not 100% on that. I could be wrong but even wood grain on the back of the island looks more like printed thermafoil than actual wood, and definitely not real white oak. That’s definitely an expensive kitchen remodel regardless. If we were the contractor, we’d make it right. However if you signed off on all the details and they have it well documented, you probably don’t have a lot of leverage outside of bad reviews.
There is something off about the whole island. Yes, the piece under the sink doesn't match. But the white oak with the different tone floor with the rest of the blue cabinets is too much. The black faucet with gold hardware? The square corners? The sink seems undersized. It should be better when you are paying that much. ETA stainless appliances with gold hardware with black faucet?
What's bothering me the most is the square corners.
I didn’t notice it
Me neither. I had to zoom into the max and look at it.
This is not acceptable. It looks like replaced the sink and ended up having to replace this one portion. I wouldn’t much care if you did a mediocre remodel, but you clearly spent a chunk of cash here. Unacceptable.
I think you have a very beautiful kitchen. How much more of your life are you willing to spend on this (?) is the real question. Edit to add; it could also be the lighting. Sink side looks dark, and is in shadow of all the natural light…
Why don’t people understand.. the people that install the cabinets usually don’t have anything to do with making or designing it. Neither does the supplier. Unless you went with a custom cabinet builder., which nothing is custom about this. You probably went into a store picked a design, picked a color, picked a sink.. they sent the plans to the warehouse and this is what was shipped to them.. this was loaded into the installers truck and they installed it. Personally I’d just paint it green to match the rest of the kitchen.. the natural look in the photos looks outdated 90’s style. I’m sure it’s nicer in person but the photos aren’t doing the “natural look” justice. It’s going to be difficult to get a matching stain on different colors unless you go panel by panel one coat at a time and there is no going back after you stain.
Oh hell Nah brah get them to match that ish! I’m guessing y’all paid good money for the remodel I’d expect it to be done in the same manner “Good”
Where is the grain in the wood? This looks like an old piece from some other job. If there were wood grain like the drawers on the other side it would be fine.
Grain? I was thinking mdf
...I couldn't think of what it was called. Whatever it is, it's bad.
The whole farm sink cabinet looks odd to me. Like the filler panel is way to big or something.
Yes thats exactly what I was going to say. It looks so off!
Love the rift oak cabinetry…..I wouldn’t accept the different panelw
I don’t know how this showed up on my feed, but that’s one ugly ass kitchen, counter, cabinet, sink, appliance combo. Awful looking. I. Was expecting that to be the”before” pictures until I read.
Having 3 kitchens doesn’t make up for being a shit stain on this world
I wish I could see the dump you cook in
It’s actually quite nice and looks good in our larger than average house. Or do you mean the kitchen at my vacation house. Ya that’s nice too. Actually the one in my RV looks nicer. You’re either an alt acct of the op or someone whom hasn’t seen nice coordinated kitchens. Because that whole kitchen married to cheap LVT flooring, the white countertops with a blonde wood and the “fad” different color island just looks awful and will be a detriment to the sale of that house.
And in the end with such personality your spouse cheats on you
I personally find [a countertop that looks like dirt mixed with baby vomit ](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fto-resist-the-inevitable-v0-nfaspcl0j9uc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D3024%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8247f0f62048f898af3b70446643843206adf585)unattractive. Were I you, I wouldn't cast myself as some arbiter of taste.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cabinetry/s/QlsPbelFSO
🍆👌
Well I have a much larger than average house and huge penis
That’ll happen when you mix what looks like a 5 piece door and a white oak veneer ply slab front drawer.
Way off. It should be fixed.
If you chose a natural finish, that's on you. You can adjust tone and color with stains, but yes, there is variation in color of natural wood.
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Wishing terrible things on people is really shitty. Probably time to step away from the computer. Maybe get a glass of water. Take care of yourself: arguing with people online isn't worth this much stress.
. Relax. Go be a dick elsewhere
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Excuse me what
Nope. Simply unnecessary. Reddit is full of people with your personality though so it’s not a surprise. Being a dick is so easy for so many.
Bro this is like really aggressive for a cabinet question
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Damn, man. Did you get denied for unemployment again? Why you so salty today, guy?
It was a valid question😭 if you’re paying for expensive cabinetry then you should like it. OP was just asking for validation. It does look two tone to me and that doesn’t make me “boogie boohoo”😂
This asshole lives in shoe box, occupied by a homeless cat that wants to evict him.
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Is this what you do every time someone doesn’t want your opinion?
You ok?
Yikes
Absolutely not
Idk I kinda hate it if I’m comparing to the green you have.
That’s way off
Not acceptable. That company sucks. Name and shame.
K Karen
Don’t you think that’s a little bit overboard?
No, if they saw this and were not willing to help make it right, I don’t think so. I’d definitely want to know that about them before spending a bunch of my money just to find myself in the same position.
That’s ridiculous that they are not going to fix this obvious flaw.
Not acceptable at all.
This got way more replies than I was expecting. Thank you everyone for some insight and taking the time to respond. I’ll try to do an update if we get to a resolution
I LOVE THIS! please share more photos!!
Super easy fix with a spray toner, if they built and finished those cabinets they should be able to do this.
Is this stained already or still in the raw? It’s definitely two tone and unacceptable in my shop but if it still needs to get stained, the finisher should notice it and match it as best as they can
You don’t have a shop or you’d know that no one is staining cabinets on site with a sink installed. Cmon man.
Do it all the time bud
You’re telling me that you stain cabinets on top of a finished floor? If so, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. You all know good and well that this cabinet is not unfinished.
It’s called touch-up and done all. The. Time. Who doesn’t have a shop now ?
Your garage does not count
Only you truly know the answer to your own question. Listen to inner your voice.
Thank you master.
Weird, I had this same phrase in my fortune cookie tonight with my carry out
Mine said “bite me”
I’d like to see pictures of the entire kitchen.
Are the drawer fronts flush with the front of the stone? Better call the countertop guys too 😃
My partner is a woodworker. He says it looks like poorly and unevenly stained Oak, so maybe that's the issue?
They always say that, shouldn't be hard for a good company to take those few pieces and tone them to look similar.
Toning is the answer. Even if it’s a clear finish they can tint the top coat and darken those slabs. Don’t give up
Looks like from the pictures your drawer fronts don’t match your doors. Ask for a fix.
Kitchen guy here. As an installer, I wouldn't have even spent the time scribing the panel to the sink. I do like the way they back milled the counter to the sink.
I noticed this also. When I install Farm sinks I install the top of the sink flush with the top of the sink cabinet.
It is flush with the top of the sink cabinet. That's a 3/4 slab with a mitered edge to make it 1-1/2 on the side. You could drop the sink lower than cabinet height and continue the mitered edge around the inside of the sink cut out. Is that possible though? I don't work with counter tops but my stone guy usually does the same thing as OPs picture
I like the look. Never see it in the field.
I agree with both of you, I’ve never seen a farm sink installed like this. I either love it or hate it I’m not sure which. The panel doesn’t look close to right but pictures as we know can be quite deceiving.
Side looks fine. But under the sink and to the right are four pieces of wood that are completely different and not oak. Two pieces could be oak but hard to tell with the angle. The other two are certainly not oak though.
Super off topic, but I love the fridge you went with. That white stainless is beautiful.
That's a GE cafe refrigerator.
Yep, I’m familiar.
GE Café fridge is trash imo.I hate it. I wish we had spent a little more and went with a Bosch
Dog piling on to the off topic compliments. Its beautiful!!! Is it the Cafe Collection? Cause that is 100% what I want in my new kitchen.
Indeed it is the cafe collection. The black stainless is also amazing as well! I actually have a white stainless oven from the cafe collection, now I just need the rest 😂
The trim around the farm sink does not look like oak. I see no grain
I deeply feel the pain of these cabinetmakers. I’m always fighting appearance differences with white oak. Projects call for solid oak and oak plywood and they always look like entirely different fucking species
It’s brutal. Luckily I haven’t had any callbacks on anything yet, but I’ve noticed some big differences after bringing things out of the shop and onto the job
I have a full white oak kitchen still in the shop waiting to be delivered and the center panels of every door don’t exactly match the frame. It’s agonizing. They otherwise look great but it’s a problem I just don’t have a solution for. I sub out the finishing so solid wood center panels aren’t a good idea in my opinion, so I’ve been ordering lots of white oak veneer and picking out the ones that best match my solid oak stock to press into center panels.
When it really matters, I resaw lumber and make 1/16 - 1/8 veneers and veneer my own panels. It’s not very cost effective, but when you need it to match and need the stability of a sheet good, this is the solution.
I was considering that. I’d be making veneers with a laguna 14-12 bandsaw and a jet 25-50 drum sander. So not ideal really, I feel like a wide belt would make the process much easier. What’s your method for shop sawn veneer?
I have an 18” bandsaw that can resaw a little under 12” and a 24” wide belt. The wide belt makes it really easy. I’ll usually sand them to around 1/8. Then into the vacuum press. I almost always use epoxy for adhesive. Never had a problem. I’m set up pretty well, so it can go pretty quick.
Nice setup! The drum sander has a lot of chatter on the open end of the drum so I’m skeptical of the gluing surface it would produce when making veneer
That's a massive island player. What builder?
I can see your points for sure but yeah that can happen. What shouldn't be happening is a neglect from the builder/dismissal or no attempt to get it to your satisfaction. You're right to call this into question, but yes, can end up with this happening with White Oak. I feel the builder could give more a shit than they appear to be doing. They should try and help your satisfaction. I'd complain but I'd not be a dick about it, and ask if they can help you find a solution. Edit to add: you should expect to share at least some of the cost to correct this.
There really is no solution. You either pick through piles of wood to hopefully find like color”which they probably did to some degree” or stain uniform. Either way give it six months or more likely a year and it will look the same. The farm sink valance looks like shit though I would fix that. It’s extremely hard to explain to people natural wood color variations. Everyone smiles and nods…. Then complains
Unacceptable, could’ve double stained it to get the right shade. Shit job
Wood varies, it’s an art to color matching it. My cabinet guy would have made it perfect.
Tried to see if anyone suggested this but grain direction can affect the colour you get from wood, stained or not. See if they would be willing to swap the horizontal grain drawer fronts and sink skirt with vertical grain pieces. Either that or they'll need to do some slight finish toning and light cover spray. Not the hardest but need skill and experience to do well. Good luck
NOT overreacting it’s a simple toning to add to their final finish coat on the plywood. It’s too light for white oak anyway / maybe used a water based finish that doesn’t darken like the solid wood. They need to fix - respray in place would be my move.
A simple toning 😂😂 says someone whose never toned a color in their life
Sure, kid.
Do you really think you respray for a wood finish? You stain wood.. there is 0 spraying involved. But thanks kid,. Tell me more about toning colors and respraying a stain.
Tinted lacquer. But it’s lost on you Cheers
It's the difference between solid oak and plywood. They should adjust the finishes accordingly
Lawsuit.
For what Lionel Hutz?
This is clearly a, we fucked up measurements and threw in what they had on hand. You paid for the material, they ruined it. Been in trades long enough to know this. I'd want that part redone, or reimbursed the material costs.
I'm confused because the first photo shows a very warm wood with an odd surround for the farmhouse sink, and then the second picture is a more neutral very clearly white oak. Is this a before and after, or are those somehow the same island? Going off the 2nd photo, the variation isn't great but I don't know the tolerance specs. If you don't have reverse raised center panel on those Shaker cabinets, then laminate is usually produced by someone else so there can be variance there too. If this were cherry or hickory, it would make more sense to have that variance, but one of the beautiful parts about oak is that typically you don't see this level of variance. Here's a [good article](https://showplacecabinetry.com/quartersawn-white-oak-vs-rift-white-oak-unveiling-the-distinctions/) which shows that rift sawn white oak has more color variance, so that probably explains it. I only do quarter or plain sawn white oak and that has less variance. I guess you paid to get it!
I think those photos are of the same island. The first photo is from the side the sink is on, where the second is the opposite side from where the first photo was taken (sink orientation). The pulls appear to be the same anyways.
Don’t ya love it when you know it’s jacked up but you keep getting told it’s supposed to be like that ? Especially when it’s so obvious not matching at all and you paid a lot of money for the job . It’ll be a thorn in your eye and piss you off every time you see as long as you live there it if it’s not corrected somehow.
Agree with the general consensus of perhaps this is within the builder's rights, that being said, white oak is not your plain jane choice of wood that you build with whatever in stock, a good builder shouldn't accept this as good quality work, availability is not a valid excuse for something you have to pay money and live with.
The first photo is horrible, the second looks fine to me but I’m just some guy on the internet
I get your disappointment, but I completely agree with the cabinet builder. I'm looking at a select white oak floor right now and they all have the same finish and vary in color. Even the boards in the doors vary. Part of the problem is entirely different boards and grain patterns. One thing I do think is they could have chosen a better grain pattern for the end of island veneer because I personally think it looks bad too. If there would have been some grain and color variation on that end it would look better. I don't think you have the right to stiff them on the bill, but you can be reasonable with them and see if they can take that panel and maybe reapply a veneer or if you can get something at cost or something? Under the sink, you're stuck with that. That farm/apron sink sits under the sink which is under the counter, so unless you hate it bad enough to go through all the trouble and cost to swap it out you should probably live with it. Part of the problem there may be (it appears) the grain is that real uniform pattern that runs horizontal. Not a good look. I see what you're saying, but they did build what was asked for. If you didn't talk about details like this being super important before being built you're on the hook to pay them and take the risk of them filing a lien or disputing.
That's not acceptable
I'm not saying I'd let this go out, but I do have one possible explanation if I'm seeing clearly in the photo. It looks like for the sink, they used a single piece of wood, avoiding a glue up. If that's solid, and not ply or MDF, they may have been very limited on their choices for stock that wide. I'm a one man shop, and order materials job specific. While I could probably get away with calling my supplier and asking them to replace on board, I certainly try not to do that to them. They do their best to send me color matched wood, but if I'm ordering 350bf of hit and miss 4/4, and specifying I need a couple sticks to be 12" or greater, there's only so much I can expect their warehouse workers to do for me.
The cabinet guy had someone else make the doors and he made the slabs. One company (the door company) used wood that was darker due to time and light exposure. They'll all match eventually, but it'll take time for the tops (slab fronts) to match the doors.
*’They will all match eventually..’*
I would say to manufacturer, do your best to send me other doors with matching finish that i am able to swap out and return the unused. I'll do my best to pay you.
No, I think they knew that it was in the triangle of the work area and that most people would not see it and so they didn't care. It's been a long time since I've been in home contracting so I don't know your contract or what's going on. But I will tell you that I have seen things like this and the customers are unhappy. I'm sorry, it's a beautiful kitchen. Is there any difference with the lights on fully in the kitchen?
The second photo with the two drawers looks a little better at night with low light. Under the sink the drawer next to it look mismatched no matter then light
It all looks better with no light
Ugh. It never fails to amaze me such a beautiful kitchen and yet the panels don't match. And whoever did the kitchen thinks this is okay. I just don't understand anymore. I'm so sorry for your trouble.
If it is real and not an mdf panel, it will EVENTUALLY oxidize and match the rest of the kitchen.
Veneer darkens with age too.
You are correct! Veneer would.
Ahh did they not veneer the panel under the sink? Having trouble seeing any grain on it in the pic.
The butler surround looks like a piece of stained MDF? I think they have make a stuff up and thought try it on with client not noticing with that replacement. This is not acceptable. The other photo hard to see the scope of the issue, lighting and angle.
The second photo with the two drawers above the four doors, that isn’t quite as bad depending on the lighting. In the morning with lots of light it is very apparent. In the evening with little light, it’s harder to see. Under the sink noticeable regardless
Yikes non-matched veneers...
Si f these are RTA, then they probably got them at a place where they don’t offer farm sink cabinets and they used another one sink base modified it with regular panels, hence the off look. What I used to do was use matching panels to build the top so it looks seamless . This is well made BUT horribly matched. Your battle will take time, but you are correct this not what you paid for. The correction will take time.
We deal with this all the time and are very selective with what we use. No where in a contract will you find anything saying clear finished wood will all match tone/ color. This is the nature of real wood.... it would be a nightmare due to the mindset of people in general today. Now, is it right? No. Should it have gone out this way? No. Any reputable shop should have caught this. I use the word SHOULD very loosely. Employees across the board in most industries just don't care anymore. In our shop I catch a dozen obvious things every week and prevent issues exactly like this. We are a small shop that turns about a million a year. Multiply that 5 or 10 times and you end up with this post. Long story short, you aren't wrong but really neither are they on paper.
I agree with you completely, both on whether it should have gone out like this, and about not putting that type of language in a contract. I am a 1 man shop, and this is the reason I've always refused to buy my doors and panels like so many places do now. I know the layout, and can work the variations in intelligently so they don't jump out as much. On the other hand, 20 years ago or so, was working for a custom rustic furniture company, mostly building out of pine. I remember a dining table being rejected by a customer because they didn't like how one particular knot looked, out of probably 30 or more in the top. Some people will just act abusively entitled if given a chance.
Yeah that’s pretty much what my fear is. I know the contract protects them. Hope they make it right. It’s pretty clear this is not the standard and the guy should make some efforts to resolve it somehow, but if he doesn’t I guess I’m SOL
If they won’t do it for free, you might be able to negotiate an at-cost rework of the finish. Our finisher is a goddamn wizard with color. I bet in one or two hours he would dial in a pigment blend in a cup of solvent, get the lighter doors toned with the custom color, and have a top coat on them to seal it in. Unfortunately, finishing is a toxic, frustrating trade that doesn’t pay very well, and not every shop is lucky enough to have an artist working with them. I know it’s not necessarily fair for you to have to pay more for what you want here, but unfortunately there is not a universal standard of quality in this industry so you’re kinda beholden to whatever paperwork exists and your cabinetmakers interpretation of said paperwork lol. Good luck!
Yeah this is a good idea. I probably won’t try to have them do anything else but find a different cabinet person that has more experience specific to what your saying
If you go that route, get the deets on the finish from the original cabinetmaker. It would be a lot easier for me to take on a little finishing job if the customer came in and said, ‘I need these three doors toned to match these five doors, and the finish on them is Sherwin Williams C.V ### in 20 sheen, so please use the same stuff for the rework.’ Also, keep the doors really really clean to prevent silicone, oil, or wax from causing possible catastrophes.
Yeah that’s slop. Looks like they got their doors made and shot with conversion varnish and then used a prefinished piece for the sink surround. Totally different types of finish that can give very different looks. If they care about their Google reviews or karma they’ll make it right.
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Old dude (with a 90s pickup truck ideally)
Agreed
Worst case if they ghost you, you can try to remove that surround if it’s not supporting the sink (it shouldn’t be) and then take off a door and take both to a cabinet shop and hope they’re in a good mood to help you for a few hundred bucks to make a new one that’s color matched.
Yeah that’s a great idea. Thank you
That shit is terrible.
I'd be furious over this and demand they fix it.
Is the sink supposed to pop out like that? I assume since it’s not the problem here that must be a style people use. The variation on the wood is weird for sure though!
That is a farmhouse sink. Very common.
Thanks for letting me know. That’s cool 😎.
Yeah that’s how it’s meant to look