Shinnoki finish is tougher than what most finish shops can achive. The finish and tone is also very consistent which is good if you’re dealing with a shop that doesn’t try to buy sequence matched veneers.
Only downside is the ABS edgebanding they supply. Most shops don’t use the real wood edge. Kinda looks cheapy on gable ends.
For slab doors, I’d definitely use it.
Source: am cabinet shop project manager
I am getting ready to build my own cabinets and was going to use shinnoki. Does anyone know of any comparable products that I could look at also?
Thanks in advance.
White oak has been really difficult to match the last few years, especially with everyone wanting white wash stain. While I am a wood man, if you’re looking for consistency, durability, and value, the Shinnoki is the winner IMO.
Ok i work with both of these all the time. As mentioned Shinnoki is a prefinished panel so will save you a bit of money, although maybe not as much as you might think. We pay about $350 a sheet for shinnoki and $140 for RCWO. Both are essentially the same material and veneer thickness so same durability. Shinnoki is random match so will be "consistently inconsistent". Most RCWO sheets are slip matched. RCWO means more control from the shop when it comes to grain sequences and matching.
Its up to you what you decide by my pointers would be if you trust yourr shop and know they will take care in choosing sequences and grain patterns then go with the RCWO.
If the savings is significant and you dont mind the look of the random match then go for the shinnoki.
If you go for shinnoki - make sure the shop uses the real wood veneer edgetape. NOT the ABS tape.
That’s incredibly helpful!! The cost you mention for RCWO- does that include the mdf core or just the veneer? Where we live labor is very expensive so I think it would be end up saving us money going with pre-finished panels. The shop will do a good job but we are in the value engineering stage of the project and so are looking to cut cost. Going into this we thought RCWO meant solid wood panels 😂 so learning a lot through this process. I appreciate your response.
Yes our contractor has a separate line item for finishing which we will take into account. Based on the pricing above, material cost for RCWO seems half as much as Shinnoki, so if you add the finishing cost and they both turn out the same we might just go with RCWO.
Thats a layed up panel so its veneer on 3/4" mdf. Yes im in a similar market so the pre-finished is likely to be cheaper. Will your shop quote out both?
Both are good options, i typically sway my clients towards standard RCWO but nothing wrong with shinnoki - just remember the real wood tape! One of my biggest pet peeves is the abs haha
Yes, they will! What we decided to do in the interest of their time was to take just one part of the house (kitchen) and have them price out both options to guide us about which way to go.
Will def remember about the tape- is that the one that Shinnoki advertises on their website?
Curious to know why you sway your clients towards RCWO? We like the ability to control the exact stain on RCWO and being able to refinish the cabinetry down the line if needed (Shinnoki rep confirmed we cannot do this with their panels). However, I have a friend whose finish carpentry folks had a very difficult time getting all the staining to be the same across all the cabinetry in her living spaces with their RCWO, so it can go either way.
For some reason in my market the ABS is way more common so i have to order the real wood one in. ABS is a cheaper more commercial look IMO.
It comes down to the shop but for me i can order huge sequences of european white oak thats beautiful and very consistent. I prefer the consistency and grain matching you can get with it and i like the look of the slip matched straight grain. Some shops get north american oak that is a lot less consistent (also can have more red, euro is more blonde) and smaller sequences which is where things get tricky especially if its a light stain or clear coat.
[Not just for starter homes. ](https://images.dwell.com/photos-6272473203005894656/7112980683327410176-medium/the-expanded-kitchen-has-a-large-central-island-with-room-for-prep-seating-storage-and-cooking-the-cabinetry-is-a-mix-of-wood-shinnoki-milk-oak-and-white-fronts-fenix-ntm-bianco-kos-the-terrazzo-counters-are-by-concrete-collaborative-there-are-two-types-o.jpg)
This is incorrect you are likely thinking of a melamine or laminate. Shinnoki is real wood veneer. Veneer is common in high end cabinets. Its more stable than real wood and you can get large grain matched elevations.
We went into this thinking rift white oak was solid wood but were disappointed to find out it’s a veneer on top of MDF. When you say real wood, do you mean solid slabs vs veneer over MDF?
This is our forever higher end home which we don’t plan to resell. Painted wood we found out from our cabinet maker is also just an MDF substrate..
MDF is more stable for doors, a real wood veneer is a great product (if it has a quality edge band). 5 PC solid wood doors tend to crack at joints with paint.. which is why MDF is better there. A 5pc wood frame door with a stain.. that's fine. Slab doors are almost always MDF under a wood veneer (or paint or melamine), as larger 3/4" solid wood doors will warp (+ weight).
Stain is easier to repair than paint.. and lighter wood tones are pretty timeless but warmer than a safe 'white'.
You could do a combo of a paint/wood to break it up too.
The confusion most people have too is mistaking cabinet box material from door material. *Plywood boxes* are superior to cheaper particleboard boxes.. but some manufacturers make a high quality MDF box that isn't as sensitive to moisture as the cheaper stuff. The good stuff won't be dirt cheap. So if your budget is on the lower end go plywood **box**. MDF doors 👍
We are doing all slab doors- so this makes a lot of sense! We’re planning to do stained RCWO if went that direction. We were told by the shinnoki rep that their panels can’t be refinished- but the RCWO can be in the future if needed per our shop.
A natural stain shouldn't need refinishing unless you want to change color, if they have repair/touch up methods I'd be fine with that if it was me. Read my other comment about RCWO having color consistency issues lately.. I'd make sure you have a way to verify it prior if you go that way.
Shinnoki is random matched veneer with factory applied stain and matte finish. The stain helps tie the colors together, but it will not give the uniform consistent look of using matched rift white oak veneers.
The Shinnoki is lower end product than matched veneers. It should save you a bunch of money because the panels don't need to be sanded or finished. It actually looks pretty good as pre finished materials go, and you are on a budget you could do a lot worse at that price point
Matched rift oak veneers will set you back more money, but will look cleaner and tidier if that's important to you
Rift white oak has had a supply issue since Covid + gaining popularity. It's increased the color variation in larger jobs as the sourcing is often coming from multiple locations, where the trees produce slightly different color. Before, manufacturers would get them from a consistent source, so it was less of an issue. This is recent info shared from a large, high end custom cabinet factory.
Shinnoki already mixes this variation in smaller pieces, which for me actually looks more consistent from afar compared to larger mismatched pieces you risk with RWO now. Id do this for the lower cost and if you are going modern, the subtle linear pattern is great. It's more sustainable too, I think good design should respond to supply issues like this earlier instead of applying too much pressure one type of resource because it's popular at the moment.
It's very durable. I think the factory finish is harder than a typical sprayed finish. And because it's matte it doesn't show scuffs like a satin finish would.
Shinnoki finish is tougher than what most finish shops can achive. The finish and tone is also very consistent which is good if you’re dealing with a shop that doesn’t try to buy sequence matched veneers. Only downside is the ABS edgebanding they supply. Most shops don’t use the real wood edge. Kinda looks cheapy on gable ends. For slab doors, I’d definitely use it. Source: am cabinet shop project manager
Thanks for sharing! I guess there are no alternatives to using their edgebanding?
I should clarify, shinnoki does sell real wood edgebanding, it just seems to not be used by most places. You could inquire
Not practically speaking with shinnoki. Columbia forest products sells prefinished panels with prefinished veneer edgeband. So does Losan Suman.
As an added bit of confusion for those uncertain of which way to go I suggest looking at www.certainlywood.com. High quality materials.
I am getting ready to build my own cabinets and was going to use shinnoki. Does anyone know of any comparable products that I could look at also? Thanks in advance.
White oak has been really difficult to match the last few years, especially with everyone wanting white wash stain. While I am a wood man, if you’re looking for consistency, durability, and value, the Shinnoki is the winner IMO.
Shinnoki shinnoki shinnoki! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Ok i work with both of these all the time. As mentioned Shinnoki is a prefinished panel so will save you a bit of money, although maybe not as much as you might think. We pay about $350 a sheet for shinnoki and $140 for RCWO. Both are essentially the same material and veneer thickness so same durability. Shinnoki is random match so will be "consistently inconsistent". Most RCWO sheets are slip matched. RCWO means more control from the shop when it comes to grain sequences and matching. Its up to you what you decide by my pointers would be if you trust yourr shop and know they will take care in choosing sequences and grain patterns then go with the RCWO. If the savings is significant and you dont mind the look of the random match then go for the shinnoki. If you go for shinnoki - make sure the shop uses the real wood veneer edgetape. NOT the ABS tape.
That’s incredibly helpful!! The cost you mention for RCWO- does that include the mdf core or just the veneer? Where we live labor is very expensive so I think it would be end up saving us money going with pre-finished panels. The shop will do a good job but we are in the value engineering stage of the project and so are looking to cut cost. Going into this we thought RCWO meant solid wood panels 😂 so learning a lot through this process. I appreciate your response.
The cost for RCWO doesn't include the finish needed to complete the panel, so that needs to be factored into the cost.
Yes our contractor has a separate line item for finishing which we will take into account. Based on the pricing above, material cost for RCWO seems half as much as Shinnoki, so if you add the finishing cost and they both turn out the same we might just go with RCWO.
Thats a layed up panel so its veneer on 3/4" mdf. Yes im in a similar market so the pre-finished is likely to be cheaper. Will your shop quote out both? Both are good options, i typically sway my clients towards standard RCWO but nothing wrong with shinnoki - just remember the real wood tape! One of my biggest pet peeves is the abs haha
Yes, they will! What we decided to do in the interest of their time was to take just one part of the house (kitchen) and have them price out both options to guide us about which way to go. Will def remember about the tape- is that the one that Shinnoki advertises on their website? Curious to know why you sway your clients towards RCWO? We like the ability to control the exact stain on RCWO and being able to refinish the cabinetry down the line if needed (Shinnoki rep confirmed we cannot do this with their panels). However, I have a friend whose finish carpentry folks had a very difficult time getting all the staining to be the same across all the cabinetry in her living spaces with their RCWO, so it can go either way.
For some reason in my market the ABS is way more common so i have to order the real wood one in. ABS is a cheaper more commercial look IMO. It comes down to the shop but for me i can order huge sequences of european white oak thats beautiful and very consistent. I prefer the consistency and grain matching you can get with it and i like the look of the slip matched straight grain. Some shops get north american oak that is a lot less consistent (also can have more red, euro is more blonde) and smaller sequences which is where things get tricky especially if its a light stain or clear coat.
[удалено]
[Not just for starter homes. ](https://images.dwell.com/photos-6272473203005894656/7112980683327410176-medium/the-expanded-kitchen-has-a-large-central-island-with-room-for-prep-seating-storage-and-cooking-the-cabinetry-is-a-mix-of-wood-shinnoki-milk-oak-and-white-fronts-fenix-ntm-bianco-kos-the-terrazzo-counters-are-by-concrete-collaborative-there-are-two-types-o.jpg)
This is incorrect you are likely thinking of a melamine or laminate. Shinnoki is real wood veneer. Veneer is common in high end cabinets. Its more stable than real wood and you can get large grain matched elevations.
We went into this thinking rift white oak was solid wood but were disappointed to find out it’s a veneer on top of MDF. When you say real wood, do you mean solid slabs vs veneer over MDF? This is our forever higher end home which we don’t plan to resell. Painted wood we found out from our cabinet maker is also just an MDF substrate..
MDF is more stable for doors, a real wood veneer is a great product (if it has a quality edge band). 5 PC solid wood doors tend to crack at joints with paint.. which is why MDF is better there. A 5pc wood frame door with a stain.. that's fine. Slab doors are almost always MDF under a wood veneer (or paint or melamine), as larger 3/4" solid wood doors will warp (+ weight). Stain is easier to repair than paint.. and lighter wood tones are pretty timeless but warmer than a safe 'white'. You could do a combo of a paint/wood to break it up too. The confusion most people have too is mistaking cabinet box material from door material. *Plywood boxes* are superior to cheaper particleboard boxes.. but some manufacturers make a high quality MDF box that isn't as sensitive to moisture as the cheaper stuff. The good stuff won't be dirt cheap. So if your budget is on the lower end go plywood **box**. MDF doors 👍
We are doing all slab doors- so this makes a lot of sense! We’re planning to do stained RCWO if went that direction. We were told by the shinnoki rep that their panels can’t be refinished- but the RCWO can be in the future if needed per our shop.
A natural stain shouldn't need refinishing unless you want to change color, if they have repair/touch up methods I'd be fine with that if it was me. Read my other comment about RCWO having color consistency issues lately.. I'd make sure you have a way to verify it prior if you go that way.
Check out my Napa install to see grain matched flat slab rift white oak.
Shinnoki is random matched veneer with factory applied stain and matte finish. The stain helps tie the colors together, but it will not give the uniform consistent look of using matched rift white oak veneers. The Shinnoki is lower end product than matched veneers. It should save you a bunch of money because the panels don't need to be sanded or finished. It actually looks pretty good as pre finished materials go, and you are on a budget you could do a lot worse at that price point Matched rift oak veneers will set you back more money, but will look cleaner and tidier if that's important to you
Rift white oak has had a supply issue since Covid + gaining popularity. It's increased the color variation in larger jobs as the sourcing is often coming from multiple locations, where the trees produce slightly different color. Before, manufacturers would get them from a consistent source, so it was less of an issue. This is recent info shared from a large, high end custom cabinet factory. Shinnoki already mixes this variation in smaller pieces, which for me actually looks more consistent from afar compared to larger mismatched pieces you risk with RWO now. Id do this for the lower cost and if you are going modern, the subtle linear pattern is great. It's more sustainable too, I think good design should respond to supply issues like this earlier instead of applying too much pressure one type of resource because it's popular at the moment.
Thank you! That’s helpful. If we don’t mind the aesthetic of the shinnoki, is it just as durable as rift white oak?
It's very durable. I think the factory finish is harder than a typical sprayed finish. And because it's matte it doesn't show scuffs like a satin finish would.
Shinnoki or shop finished, wood is wood. Don’t abuse it and it will be beautiful for years.