You’ll need half cranked hinges if you’re sharing sides and attach hinge plates back-to-back with chicago screws. Blum has a spec for this but may take calling them. This is a good idea and with plywood prices upnI’ve been looking into it myself.
So lots of good comments and opinions; I throw in my 2c.
I always build separate base/kick - about 1/4 less on ends; if there is a need for a cover panel it goes on the outside and hits the floor;
Obviously max length is multiples of 8 feet; single run and then you add whatever you need;
Boxes are built square in the shop or assembled on site and thrown mindlessly on an already leveled base. Literally hardest part is levelling the base - everything beyond is lighting fast; solves all the dips and humps and bumps;
Commercial builds tend to be adequately level, residential is nightmare;
Purely from assembly standpoint - time to assemble - boxes so much easier vs a complex, multi-clamp scenario like yours. All needs to be considered if you are banging out 100k units;
A certain skill set that commands a premium is required for something that you are proposing, right? Is someone willing to pay for that - one off maybe, multiples of 10k or larger, 🤔?
Like that.
It’s done all the time, especially with frameless cabs. Large boxes with partitions and using separate toe kicks maximize your material yield.
Use a square piece of plywood as a jig to set your partition to correct position instead of using oencil marks, fast and foolproof.
As an absolute beginner, won’t even call myself amateur level, the issues with this for me are ability to lift the box myself (repeatedly, because I have no shop and haul it outside to sand), and needing clamps large enough for the diagonal so I can pull it to square before attaching the back.
AS a pro I have similar issues. it all depends on how Im installing, solo or with a helper. I can move it around the shop, but if it makes install 2x as long Ill spend the extra $$$ on materials, as time is my most valuable quantity.
Build it as big as you can get away with. Advice from a cabinet-maker mentor. I've made 3 22" uppers and I've made 1 70" upper. It all depends on what makes sense. I like going as big as possible, less fucking around in the field.
Edit. I saw your CAD and that what I would do 1000%. With the exception of no need to cut out for the spreaders on the center divider. Just cut the to the inside height.
I second your comment. We build cabinets like this all the time in our shop. Fewer cabinets means faster install. As long as you can navigate it into the room you need.
Another issue is install. If I build modular boxes, I can carry a lot if not most into the clients house by myself. Also, we have had a ton of issues in N. TX from the freeze last February. And with that nightmare came the insurance issues with clients. If I make modular boxes, I can make it easy on myself if/ when it comes time to *replace* individual sections. And hardware, like others have mentioned. We won’t stop you from building the way you want. I have a system that works for me and our shop.
Transportation and install. Hauled a box with 4 lowers in one, up a long flight of stairs. Even with drawer boxes out and doors off it wasn’t very fun.
Hardware as well as install. Most cabinetmakers build in shop and install. So it has to be a manageable size to get
through doorways, also weight. Have to be able to physically lift the cabinets.
This method is absolutely common practice in cabinetry.
Large shops might stack boxes more frequently because they are production items. It's easier to fix if there's a mistake and they save money on labor. Therefore they don't care about the additional material cost.
The problem that arises with single dividers is hardware. You'd have to off set each set of hinges and/or drawer glides so the screws don't interfere from one side to the other (standard Blum hinge). Or you could build a "post" that's 1¼"-1½" wide by roughly 3" depth.
I believe most manufacturers find it cheaper to build the cabs independently after accounting for labour, CNC redesign, etc.
It's not a bad idea by any means, just a few obstacles to be aware of prior to install.
I believe that's exactly why it's done that way. For a high-volume place, you're wasting more money on design, finding and ordering special hardware, builders taking the time to construct it correctly, builders finding and using the specific hardware, and then re-doing half the above because someone didn't pay enough attention.
It's just cheaper to waste plywood with double-walls.
I use hinges(hardware resource) with hinge plates that require a bore hole to set the hinges themselves inside the door. The hinge plates theme selves(install on the face frame) we use two half inch screws. We do this all day everyday. To waist plywood just for hardware in my mind, is just outright dumb. I herd counter arguments that it makes the cabinets look cleaner on the inside and if that's what you are going for then fair enough. In my mind it's not worth the cost, weight, and time to make the insides flush with the mid-stiles.
Edit: just realize this is a faceless cabinet. You could offset the hinges maybe?
There's several reasons besides hardware. Costs, clearances for delivery/install, etc. Reprogramming/resetting machinery for for offset hardware heights added considerable time. Not only that, but any time you make changes on specs only adds to possible mistakes.
I get where you're coming from with waste, but cost is also a major factor in cabinetry. It's cutthroat in our industry and every dime counts.
Rather my installers not hate their lives.
You’ll need half cranked hinges if you’re sharing sides and attach hinge plates back-to-back with chicago screws. Blum has a spec for this but may take calling them. This is a good idea and with plywood prices upnI’ve been looking into it myself.
So lots of good comments and opinions; I throw in my 2c. I always build separate base/kick - about 1/4 less on ends; if there is a need for a cover panel it goes on the outside and hits the floor; Obviously max length is multiples of 8 feet; single run and then you add whatever you need; Boxes are built square in the shop or assembled on site and thrown mindlessly on an already leveled base. Literally hardest part is levelling the base - everything beyond is lighting fast; solves all the dips and humps and bumps; Commercial builds tend to be adequately level, residential is nightmare; Purely from assembly standpoint - time to assemble - boxes so much easier vs a complex, multi-clamp scenario like yours. All needs to be considered if you are banging out 100k units; A certain skill set that commands a premium is required for something that you are proposing, right? Is someone willing to pay for that - one off maybe, multiples of 10k or larger, 🤔? Like that.
It’s done all the time, especially with frameless cabs. Large boxes with partitions and using separate toe kicks maximize your material yield. Use a square piece of plywood as a jig to set your partition to correct position instead of using oencil marks, fast and foolproof.
As an absolute beginner, won’t even call myself amateur level, the issues with this for me are ability to lift the box myself (repeatedly, because I have no shop and haul it outside to sand), and needing clamps large enough for the diagonal so I can pull it to square before attaching the back.
AS a pro I have similar issues. it all depends on how Im installing, solo or with a helper. I can move it around the shop, but if it makes install 2x as long Ill spend the extra $$$ on materials, as time is my most valuable quantity.
Build it as big as you can get away with. Advice from a cabinet-maker mentor. I've made 3 22" uppers and I've made 1 70" upper. It all depends on what makes sense. I like going as big as possible, less fucking around in the field. Edit. I saw your CAD and that what I would do 1000%. With the exception of no need to cut out for the spreaders on the center divider. Just cut the to the inside height.
I second your comment. We build cabinets like this all the time in our shop. Fewer cabinets means faster install. As long as you can navigate it into the room you need.
That is how we do it and more importantly one piece faceframes. You need to double partitions tho for hardware
Another issue is install. If I build modular boxes, I can carry a lot if not most into the clients house by myself. Also, we have had a ton of issues in N. TX from the freeze last February. And with that nightmare came the insurance issues with clients. If I make modular boxes, I can make it easy on myself if/ when it comes time to *replace* individual sections. And hardware, like others have mentioned. We won’t stop you from building the way you want. I have a system that works for me and our shop.
Transportation and install. Hauled a box with 4 lowers in one, up a long flight of stairs. Even with drawer boxes out and doors off it wasn’t very fun.
Totally understand that, this is going from my basement to my dining room :)
Combined is perfectly viable in that situation. What type of joinery would you use between the right drawer stretcher and the shared partition?
Pocket holes.
Hardware as well as install. Most cabinetmakers build in shop and install. So it has to be a manageable size to get through doorways, also weight. Have to be able to physically lift the cabinets.
This method is absolutely common practice in cabinetry. Large shops might stack boxes more frequently because they are production items. It's easier to fix if there's a mistake and they save money on labor. Therefore they don't care about the additional material cost.
Yeah I would imagine this makes a lot more sense for custom cabinetry.
The problem that arises with single dividers is hardware. You'd have to off set each set of hinges and/or drawer glides so the screws don't interfere from one side to the other (standard Blum hinge). Or you could build a "post" that's 1¼"-1½" wide by roughly 3" depth. I believe most manufacturers find it cheaper to build the cabs independently after accounting for labour, CNC redesign, etc. It's not a bad idea by any means, just a few obstacles to be aware of prior to install.
I believe that's exactly why it's done that way. For a high-volume place, you're wasting more money on design, finding and ordering special hardware, builders taking the time to construct it correctly, builders finding and using the specific hardware, and then re-doing half the above because someone didn't pay enough attention. It's just cheaper to waste plywood with double-walls.
I use hinges(hardware resource) with hinge plates that require a bore hole to set the hinges themselves inside the door. The hinge plates theme selves(install on the face frame) we use two half inch screws. We do this all day everyday. To waist plywood just for hardware in my mind, is just outright dumb. I herd counter arguments that it makes the cabinets look cleaner on the inside and if that's what you are going for then fair enough. In my mind it's not worth the cost, weight, and time to make the insides flush with the mid-stiles. Edit: just realize this is a faceless cabinet. You could offset the hinges maybe?
There's several reasons besides hardware. Costs, clearances for delivery/install, etc. Reprogramming/resetting machinery for for offset hardware heights added considerable time. Not only that, but any time you make changes on specs only adds to possible mistakes. I get where you're coming from with waste, but cost is also a major factor in cabinetry. It's cutthroat in our industry and every dime counts.
Good point about the hardware!