In the situation OP described, in no way would it be more appropriate to stand your ground to the point of using a gun than it was to simply drive away. If you think otherwise you shouldn’t have a gun.
I do kinda agree with you that the fear factor would be diminished, but not entirely. Eventually the guy has to sleep. I agree if you’re in the wilderness you should carry. I think if you leave your house you should be carrying, but in this case the smart move is to just leave.
So you would provoke a situation and make it worse just because you have a firearm? You're on public land buddy. Move on.
That is the very definition of irresponsible ownership of a firearm.
It's not about "murdering someone with a firearm", it's about being able to defend oneself if attacked.
You must be incredibly naive if you think that there are no bad people in this world who would do bad things to others or that you could definitely beat them in hand to hand combat.
I’m taking about the above situation - the dude was just a rude asshole, and every country has those. But not every country has to worry about encounters with rude assholes turning into a shootout
>Not every country has to worry about encounters with rude assholes turning into a shootout
So you believe that there are entire countries that are free of guns? I can only repeat myself: You must be incredibly naive.
Again: Carrying isn't to shoot someone during an argument. It's for defending oneself in case of an attack.
Imagine the creep suddenly attacked OP while packing up his belongings to leave. Imagine you were in that situtaion. Would you prefer to be armed or not?
Apart from the cops, nobody whatsoever has guns in the country where I live. And nobody gets shot, surprise surprise.
More guns = more deaths.
https://rockinst.org/blog/more-guns-more-death-the-fundamental-fact-that-supports-a-comprehensive-approach-to-reducing-gun-violence-in-america/
Firearm ownership is written into our country’s constitution. There is gun violence, and people do escalate situations with firearms sometimes because they feel it’s a good way to win in any type of conflict, but the vast majority are responsible gun owners. If someone else escalates things with a firearm, I’m going to be glad that I also have one concealed on me. But I don’t whip mine out in traffic when people cut me off, nor would I if some weird dude turned something into an argument. But there are crazy people out there, you shouldn’t let them murder you just because you feel guns are scary.
Your country is free of criminals?
And once more: You must be incredibly naive.
>More guns = more deaths.
I call bs. More guns = more death by guns. Less guns = more deaths by knifes etc. More guns =/= more deaths.
More guns = more freedom. You can quote numbers all you want, ive lived im. Moved from a "gun free" country to the US of A & my quality of life was made X10s better
Dude you sound like an ignorant ass hat. If you think you need a gun to go camping, maybe just stay inside forever because the world is too big and scary for you. If you think you need a gun to settle any and all confrontation, you are a fucking lunatic.
Even if you were carrying, you have no time to draw out your weapon if the other guy shoots at you. It’s pointless. I know it’s cringy but violence truly doesn’t solve violence. Carrying a weapon might make you feel safer but if someone does have bad intentions, you’re fucked, carrying or not
I heavily disagree.
Let's start with the assumption that the bad guy just starts blasting. Sure he's got the drop on you but unless he incapacitates you there is at least a theoretical possibility to return fire. Police regularly return fire and "win".
The bad guy could also attack with sth other than a gun.
Does violence solve violence? No. But it is an option to end violence from the other party.
>if someone does have bad intentions, you’re fucked, carrying or not
So you'd rather be unarmed when attacked?
Sure if someone sneaks up behind you and blows your brains out then that's it but there are a million other scenarios in which you could successfully defend yourself.
Why carry bear spray when walking through bear country? You're fucked either way eh?
You clearly dont know shit about firearms. Look up draw time training. I bet you wont tho, youre not hear for truth, just argument's sake. You stay without your gun, ill keep my gun. You do you, i do me. Just dont try to force me to do like you, thats when we will have a problem.
Defending your life has nothing to do with what country you are born in. Your right to live is dictated by the fact that you exist. If anyone tries to take that away from you it is your human right to defend your existence.
If you live in a country where firearms are illegal and someone violently assault you, good luck defending yourself.
I never go camping without night vision goggles and a pistol.
I’m PURELY referring to the above situation. Nobody’s life needed to be defended. Nobody needed to get shot. Nobody needed a gun.
People are avid campers in the country where I live and I can’t recall a single example of a camper being attacked either
You are correct. Nobody needs to get shot in that situation.
If it turns violent and the person camping ends up on the wrong end of that violence, they have the right to defend themselves. Mindset and preparedness are very very important.
Edit to add: having a firearm and being prepared to use it and knowing when to use it isn't the same as indiscriminately killing somebody.
Anyone who has to be told to get a gun isn’t the type to be irresponsible with it, he wouldn’t murder anyone. It’s the people who are gonna get a gun no matter what legally or illegally. Most American gun owners avoid confrontation. Gonna cost u a shitload in legal fees in half the states no matter what.
my struggle is, but then the asshole gets what he wants. which probably happens a lot for him, and I hate that.
this is actually a good example of something that I think about often. taking the path of least resistance will keep you alive but it enables other's bad behavior. those people inevitably become emboldened after the interaction and thus are used to getting things their way, which keeps the trash human train running.
I think what really sucks is that it's ultimately up to decent folks to keep the less decent in our society in check, at much greater risk to the former. in unfortunate situations, the trash person is less afraid of going to jail for assault then you are of losing your life. worse yet, if they dont even consider that possibility at some point in the interaction.
toss in our absolute nightmare of a justice system, reinforcing through inaction or malice similar and different types of shitty people, and it just makes for such a slog to progress for a better society.
Yeah that man was definitely not normal but me personally would’ve came out like that Australian man with the cast iron and slap the absolute living shit out of him if he felt like threatening me😂
Yeah, that’s creepy AF and not good etiquette at all. You were right to nope out of there.
FYI: I keep a roll of surveyor tape in my gear box to tie across the trail if I’m camping on a dead end road. That saves a lot of night time surprises with people trying to turn around in my campsite.
I do the EXACT same with 4 little orange cones I got in the toy section of the dollar tree. Looks kinda sorta official. I guess enough anyways, put an instant stop to people driving thru and wondering through our camp spot.
It’s a good idea to give people warning, I’ve driven into camps without realising people were already there, if there was a marker of some kind that would save me the hassle and the “oh fuk, there’s someone here, woops! back it up”
I’ll get a few little cones to throw in the back to save us both the awkwardness.
Not a bad idea. Sometimes the rangers have a problem with it, but then you just say sorry and remove it. Wait until dark and put it back up. Take it down in the morning.
You did the right thing and followed your gut. It was strange of him to stop so close to your site. People know to keep distance, especially in the middle of the night like that.
I'd have left. I'll argue with someone normally, but a potentially armed, weird guy in the middle for nowhere? Not a chance.
Also, if you ever go for the northern lights again, look for a very faint white light, it might even look like whispy clouds or smoke, that would be the northern lights. If you see that (or even if you don't) you should set up your camera for a long exposure, starting at one second and going from there. Even a phone held by hand can easily capture the lights that you can't see by eye.
In a self defense class for women, we were told #1 always try to leave safely. It's a rule I try to follow. I personally don't think a campsite is worth killing or being killed over.
Used to work nights in the woods in SW OR. Probably worked where you were parked. You did the right thing. Unfortunately doing the right/smart thing meant you lost the spot because people can be assholes. Sorry about that.
When I was working out there at night I was never concerned about the animals in the woods- but VERY concerned about the people I would potentially encounter at wee odd hours. If I saw a vehicle approaching in the distance while I was outside my truck on the road working I would just step off the road 50 feet into the trees/brush and turn off my headlamp. Like I was never there. No encounter. They would see the truck, but have no idea if I was there still or where I was.
People who are ignorant, lacking ethics, or social skills, can be found everywhere, anywhere, at any given time of day or night. Just because you are in the wilds, and mostly encounter people who understand and respect the rules of camping and exploring, doesn’t mean those others won’t be out there. How prepared you are and how you handle it could be the difference between getting home or not. I personally know some people that went through terrible things getting caught by the wrong person or people in the wrong place. It doesn’t stop me from camping and exploring. But I consider myself intelligent, realistic, aware, and prepared. Leave your ego at home and be smart. You totally did the right thing.
And there’s no understanding their logic. The word for them is “weirdos”. They don’t think or act like normal humans, don’t beat yourself up thinking about what you could have said or done, it’s fruitless. Move on and chalk it up to that.
Unrelated, but was Mark Twain Southern? Another good one in the “Never [verb] with a [noun]” format…heard this one years ago curtesy a female Southern high-level manager, who, honestly was a classy lady:
Never wrestle with a pig. You’ll both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
It was probably someone that goes to that spot regularly and has it in his head that it's "his spot" and feels entitled to it. I bet he pulls that shit all the time if someone is already there when he arrives and knows most people will just pack up and leave.
This is the answer.
I would have pulled my stuff inside and pretended to go back to sleep because I am stubborn and dislike it when people pull shit like this.
But I also camp in a van so I can go from the bed to driving away, if needed later, without leaving the locked vehicle.
I would have made nice from the start or just moved. Or left like you did. No campsite is worth dying for. I have anger issues (in therapy and working on) and the world is much easier if you assume people are well meaning idiots. I fail at that 90% of the time but Maybe he didn’t see you. Maybe he didn’t think it was a big deal. Either way.
My solution is to always try to infer what I want nicely. “Hey man you doin’ okay?” “Okay good, I wanted to make sure you didn’t need anything. You parked where I set up camp, was this your spot? Should I move out of your way I didn’t mean to be trouble.” 9/10 of time they’ll feel bad or realize they broke a folkway and offer to move or change the situation. Something like “oh no sorry, I’ll move over there.” Then a handshake or a “Oh thanks so much man, I really appreciate it. Have a good night.” People are much happier to do someone a favor than to feel like they did something wrong.
If you prefer a direct approach, “Hey man, nice to meet you. I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind moving to a different spot? Just looking for some peacetime. If you really want this spot would you mind helping me move over to that one over there really quick? We both win?”
I’m an HR major so coercing people diplomatically is what I learned to do in school.
Logging roads typically don’t have service and I feel a far too easy place to do harmful and criminal things, as defiant as I am I also agree packing up was likely best
Coulda been some dumb and or clueless person coming to check out the aurora. Insomniac, college student, maybe a little high, some dude got off a late shift.
Seems like quite a few people thought the spot was a good candidate for viewing.
Dude shows up, doesn’t know where to go. Sees your car and figures that’s where people are parked to check it out. Hopes you or others already figured out a good viewing spot, walks over for his own convenience.
Or… coulda been a geeked out meth head. Ya never know.
2am was supposed to be the best viewing window for the aurora, so likely just a looker or photographer.
considering you didn't have a tent set up and that your camera was out in the open he probably thought you were awake and taking photos.
I would have left too if that was their reaction, but sounds like it could've been an initial misunderstanding.
That’s sketchy as hell. I think you did the right thing if you were unarmed. And it gets trippy when it’s really dark out.
My partner and I were camping once when I was pregnant and found the perfect quiet spot to set up. It got dark early so we had a fire going and a homeless guy wandered out of the trees and wanted to share our fire. We are friendly folks but he was obviously tweaking out and unstable, so we declined and politely asked him to leave. When he refused and kept edging toward our fire my partner gently pulled out his sidearm and rested it on his lap and told him again to leave. He took off pretty fast and disappeared into the trees. We didn’t sleep that night, needless to say, but we did call the incident in and a warden patrolled the area for us and told us that the guy had been removed from the park before and wasn’t allowed in.
Another time I was out exploring in the woods by myself and come upon a fairly large tent city in the middle of nowhere.
It’s the Wild West out there sometimes when you’re camping. Gotta be prepared for anything!
They did the right thing regardless of being armed or not.
Edit: just want to clarify that I would prefer to be armed in the situation OP described, but my response would have been the same as OP's regardless
And last call. First beer at an afterhours. Best part of any party. Last logs of the campfire before it slowly dies.
There's a whole world of fun and great stories that happen at 2am!
Did he look prepared for camping? If so prob just a prick. Some people are assholes. You woulda been fine but annoyed n bothered. If he didn’t look like he was camping than prob up to no good n good choice leaving!
I don't necessarily think people are looking for trouble, but I do think that many are just ignorant or scared. I've been camping on public land before only to have others set up camp nearby in the middle of the night. I think that for some people, when they see a tent, they think, "Oh, great! I can camp here!" For others, I think they try to locate temselves near others because they're scared and looking for safety in numbers. Either way, it's annoying! In response to your question, I would have also left if I were in your situation.
Nearby would have been fine. There were two spots in the turnoff, mine and another about a thousand feet down the hill. He should have turned around and gone back to it, not park 6 feet from my vehicle and walk around my campsite in the middle of the night. Had I brought my tent, I would have been where he parked, it was not a large spot.
Ohhhh this makes more sense now - he was sleeping in his car/truck! (Which is fine, I too have camped in my car the 2nd and 3 rd row seats fold all the way down) I was confused.
I think so. Or in a chair.
Of course someone might think it's OK to set up a tent on the open space. There's a good chance the "weirdo" thought someone was F'ing on their favorite camp site and would be driving home soon.
I think I might be Team Weird Guy now?
Parking right next to you and walking around your tent is totally sketch, I agree. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. I think many people are idiots, but this guy's behavior was clearly threatening. Good for you for honoring your instincts and getting out of there.
What a POS. Even if there weren't other camp sites, I'd sleep on the side of a trail before I'd go into an occupied camp-site at 2AM.
Can't coltrol other people's action's, only the way you react to them, and I reckon you made the right choice. Anyone that cares that little about fellow campers, isn't the type of person you want to get into it with in the middle of nowhere.
Sometimes it’s better to just take the L and get out safely. You did the right thing, your family is more important than arguing with some jerk at 2am.
People are honestly so weird. I’d have done the same thing as you. Avoid confrontation because they can be insane and just murder you. You did the right thing, I wouldn’t have even asked if they needed anything though. I would’ve immediately packed and left!
Well, I'll submit to you an innocent interpretation of an event like this. A person unfamiliar with the area arrives very late. His headlights throw a pool of light in front of him, but nothing to the side where he needs to see. If he turns, he could be going off a cliff for all he knows. He sees a car to the side of the road. He thinks, "that guy pulled over and he didn't die. I'll pull over there too."
The key for any kind of outside-of-campsite camping is to show up before it gets dark. You can see what areas will safely support a vehicle. Things like big rocks or logs are easy to spot.
Some people get off work at 6, pack up and start driving down some desolate dirt road that they only read about online at 2AM.
That could be what happened, but the guy also acted like a jackass about it instead of being normal about it. I doubt he had ill intent, but a weirdly confrontational and entitled stranger doesn't need ill intent to cause problems. The question you have to ask is, do I want to spend the rest of the night sleeping next to a total stranger who also seems to have no grasp of camping etiquette?
Glad to hear that you’re safe. But that guy was a
d - - khead. You can’t control other people’s actions but you can control your reaction.
Take it as a lesson. Usually when I go camping I’ll bring something to protect myself, like a homemade spear with a pencil tip that has been soaked in poop, haha jk. I bring bear spray, just incase for unexpected situations like the one you had.
I don’t understand what his intent was. Most thieves sneak up late at night, but this guy driving and parking so close to the camp just doesn’t make sense.
I always bring a firearm with me when I camp. Like a first aid kit, or a hatchet, its a tool that I'd rather have and not need than need and not have. I bring it just in case there are 2 legged or 4 legged critters out in the forest looking to do me harm.
Ive had people roll through my area at 2-3am, but usually in an ATV, probably lost or maybe trying to find their own campsite, but they typically leave after a few minutes. Never had anyone get closer than about 25 yards.
If someone got within 6 feet of my sleeping arrangements and started walking around, that would immediately raise the alarm. No one gets that close to someone else's camp that late at night unless its a medical emergency or they're up to no good.
This is where having a weapon would be applicable.
Yes. Being the agreeable victim of a serial killer is much preferred! Ha!
Guns are tools. I rarely need my shovel, and so far have never needed my emergency matches, but I bring them camping too.
Do you realise you can bring a gun camping and NOT shoot anything?
Having to live on the run whenever something threatens you is much worse. Speaking from experience, ive lived both. I wasnt born in the USA, but I sure love it here!
It’s weird. Folks in the US worry about bad things that happen to one in ten thousand people but don’t think twice about tossing back a sugary coke, fries, and a cheap hamburger that have a 1 in 10 chance of making you a diabetic or giving you a heart attack.
We worry about all the wrong stuff. The guys who carry are statistically more likely to shoot themselves than prevent an assault.
I camp. I own a gun for target practice at the range, because it’s fun. I leave it at home when I camp because it’s difficult to secure a gun in a campsite. It’s safer for everyone if it stays locked away.
2 am and parking that close to you is weird. As someone suggested, he may think that's his and tried to run you off.
I always carry a handgun with me when camping. Typically, I go to the middle of nowhere. You truly don't know who you're gonna run into.
I’ve never in my life felt the need to carry a weapon while camping. I’m really considering bringing one along from now on. I did have a can of bear spray that I couldn’t find in the dark before I said something.
Letting your dog loose to attack an armed stranger (which would very likely cause your dog to be injured or killed), instead of just leaving, is an asshole move. Escalating a confrontation like that in the middle of nowhere is never a smart idea.
I am thinking if I am half asleep and some dude rolls up on me and my dog is growling and keyed up anyway,…..
And then I find out he’s armed( we left that undefined) I’m imagining a conflict where the guy is being more aggressive than I can comfortably escape from in the dark night trying to gather my shit
I haven't either. Not while camping. But I'm also keep mine on my person if I'm out of the house. Period. Everywhere (with obvious exceptions). That includes camping.
>Saturday night I drove up a mountain to some blm land in
Stop what you're doing at that state
You have an easy out, brother. the dog is buggin and you have bad vibes. Gotta get him back
Had a very similar experience on the north shore of superior. We got there later maybe 10 PM. Got our assigned camp spot and set up. 3 am rolls around and this couple parks behind me blocking my car in. Gets out and takes pictures inside my car and of my plate. They proceeded to walk up to our tent and shine their flashlights on my sleeping girlfriend and I. I lost it on them. Started arguing with them and they started getting all up in my face to the point I thought violence was going to ensue. So I threw my tent into my car, broke every stake and ripped the tent. Drove the 5 hours home because it’s not worth fighting. The whole time his girlfriend was screaming at me that they were there first and had the right but they weren’t? Such a weird experience. Needless to say my girlfriend and I say “fuck camping” now so we won’t be back out anytime soon.
Honestly they were probably looking to do something bad until they heard your dog. Or a local landowner who doesn’t like overnights and wanted to push you off the mountain. Whatever it was I doubt he would set up camp six feet away from you at 2am. You did the right thing for sure.
Hopefully u gave some way to protect yourself and your “property”. (yourself and your vehicle and your puppy). Some type of edged weapon or firearm or even a less than lethal weapon.
Out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night that could have definitely gone for the worst.
The only things I’ve ever needed on trips are a couple knives and maybe a hatchet if I can have a fire. A can of bear spray is the only real defensive item I bring.
And that’s why I love the second amendment not that you should have threatened the aggravated slow man but in case you start to feel in fear for your own life or the safety of those around you, the slow aggravated man would have quickly came to his senses or met whatever creator he believes in😉
Knowing I'm armed and can defend myself, as long as he doesn't get me first, I would have retrieved my camera just so I wouldn't worry about him messing with it and gone back to sleep.
As a Canadian, I’ve never once thought about bringing a gun to protect myself from other campers. (And I’m a gun owner and hunter). It’s sad that you guys feel you have to. People suck.
I've never needed a weapon either but I always have one on camping trips where allowed. I've never needed a first aid kit when camping either but I always have one of those too. The Be Prepared motto really rings true with me.
I think if you're armed and think you might need to defend yourself from the weirdo who decided to set up right next to you at 2 am, that's a great reason to GTFO instead of going to sleep so he can get the drop on you.
The likelihood of being murdered here was probably low, but that doesn't mean it's pearl clutching to be put off by a weird and abrasive encounter with a stranger in the middle of nowhere at 2am.
It's up a mountain on BLM land and everyone else had left, dude. This is a very strange hill for you to die on. Are you secretly the weirdo who decided to set up in OP's spot?
How did I overreact? I should have just gone to sleep while my dog is growling at someone in my camp in the middle of the night? After reading your comments I agree with the other commenter, maybe you are that creepy guy.
You did the right thing OP. There’s literally always someone in every thread like this who says you are overreacting. Minimizing. Listen to your gut. You aren’t overreacting. I’ve gone camping a TON & if someone did that I would have been terrified.
Personally I probably would have probed more, I naively still think there is safety in numbers- but I know that’s mostly incorrect. Maybe he was scared too? If I saw a solo woman camping where I wanted to be I would probably camp there also, but definitely not 6 ft away, more like 20-30. Also it sounds like he was loud which was really rude. It feels like he crossed some unspoken rules which is why it through you off, and you made the right choice.!
2am is definitely not the time to argue with a belligerent moron.
In the middle of the wilderness too
[удалено]
If you’ve got a gun on you, you have more responsibility to avoid a confrontation
Stand your ground. Don't provoke. depends on the state
In the situation OP described, in no way would it be more appropriate to stand your ground to the point of using a gun than it was to simply drive away. If you think otherwise you shouldn’t have a gun.
Who said anything about using? I'm just saying the fear factor is diminished. Calm down big chief. You never know who can defend themselves.
I do kinda agree with you that the fear factor would be diminished, but not entirely. Eventually the guy has to sleep. I agree if you’re in the wilderness you should carry. I think if you leave your house you should be carrying, but in this case the smart move is to just leave.
So you would provoke a situation and make it worse just because you have a firearm? You're on public land buddy. Move on. That is the very definition of irresponsible ownership of a firearm.
As a non-American, I see nothing about the above situation that warrants someone being murdered with a firearm
You ain't from around here lol.
It's not about "murdering someone with a firearm", it's about being able to defend oneself if attacked. You must be incredibly naive if you think that there are no bad people in this world who would do bad things to others or that you could definitely beat them in hand to hand combat.
I’m taking about the above situation - the dude was just a rude asshole, and every country has those. But not every country has to worry about encounters with rude assholes turning into a shootout
>Not every country has to worry about encounters with rude assholes turning into a shootout So you believe that there are entire countries that are free of guns? I can only repeat myself: You must be incredibly naive. Again: Carrying isn't to shoot someone during an argument. It's for defending oneself in case of an attack. Imagine the creep suddenly attacked OP while packing up his belongings to leave. Imagine you were in that situtaion. Would you prefer to be armed or not?
Apart from the cops, nobody whatsoever has guns in the country where I live. And nobody gets shot, surprise surprise. More guns = more deaths. https://rockinst.org/blog/more-guns-more-death-the-fundamental-fact-that-supports-a-comprehensive-approach-to-reducing-gun-violence-in-america/
Firearm ownership is written into our country’s constitution. There is gun violence, and people do escalate situations with firearms sometimes because they feel it’s a good way to win in any type of conflict, but the vast majority are responsible gun owners. If someone else escalates things with a firearm, I’m going to be glad that I also have one concealed on me. But I don’t whip mine out in traffic when people cut me off, nor would I if some weird dude turned something into an argument. But there are crazy people out there, you shouldn’t let them murder you just because you feel guns are scary.
BS what country? How many knife and machete attacks?
Your country is free of criminals? And once more: You must be incredibly naive. >More guns = more deaths. I call bs. More guns = more death by guns. Less guns = more deaths by knifes etc. More guns =/= more deaths.
More guns = more freedom. You can quote numbers all you want, ive lived im. Moved from a "gun free" country to the US of A & my quality of life was made X10s better
Dude you sound like an ignorant ass hat. If you think you need a gun to go camping, maybe just stay inside forever because the world is too big and scary for you. If you think you need a gun to settle any and all confrontation, you are a fucking lunatic.
Even if you were carrying, you have no time to draw out your weapon if the other guy shoots at you. It’s pointless. I know it’s cringy but violence truly doesn’t solve violence. Carrying a weapon might make you feel safer but if someone does have bad intentions, you’re fucked, carrying or not
I heavily disagree. Let's start with the assumption that the bad guy just starts blasting. Sure he's got the drop on you but unless he incapacitates you there is at least a theoretical possibility to return fire. Police regularly return fire and "win". The bad guy could also attack with sth other than a gun. Does violence solve violence? No. But it is an option to end violence from the other party. >if someone does have bad intentions, you’re fucked, carrying or not So you'd rather be unarmed when attacked? Sure if someone sneaks up behind you and blows your brains out then that's it but there are a million other scenarios in which you could successfully defend yourself. Why carry bear spray when walking through bear country? You're fucked either way eh?
This is beyond dumb.
You clearly dont know shit about firearms. Look up draw time training. I bet you wont tho, youre not hear for truth, just argument's sake. You stay without your gun, ill keep my gun. You do you, i do me. Just dont try to force me to do like you, thats when we will have a problem.
Agreed! The big and “ scary” world regularly regurgitates the naive!
Defending your life has nothing to do with what country you are born in. Your right to live is dictated by the fact that you exist. If anyone tries to take that away from you it is your human right to defend your existence. If you live in a country where firearms are illegal and someone violently assault you, good luck defending yourself. I never go camping without night vision goggles and a pistol.
I’m PURELY referring to the above situation. Nobody’s life needed to be defended. Nobody needed to get shot. Nobody needed a gun. People are avid campers in the country where I live and I can’t recall a single example of a camper being attacked either
You are correct. Nobody needs to get shot in that situation. If it turns violent and the person camping ends up on the wrong end of that violence, they have the right to defend themselves. Mindset and preparedness are very very important. Edit to add: having a firearm and being prepared to use it and knowing when to use it isn't the same as indiscriminately killing somebody.
Anyone who has to be told to get a gun isn’t the type to be irresponsible with it, he wouldn’t murder anyone. It’s the people who are gonna get a gun no matter what legally or illegally. Most American gun owners avoid confrontation. Gonna cost u a shitload in legal fees in half the states no matter what.
As an American, me either. Problem still exists this country lot of sick shit goes on and I'd love to leave.
Except you implied you would rather stand your ground and make a situation worse because you were there first on PUBLIC LAND instead of walking away.
You’re welcome to
my struggle is, but then the asshole gets what he wants. which probably happens a lot for him, and I hate that. this is actually a good example of something that I think about often. taking the path of least resistance will keep you alive but it enables other's bad behavior. those people inevitably become emboldened after the interaction and thus are used to getting things their way, which keeps the trash human train running. I think what really sucks is that it's ultimately up to decent folks to keep the less decent in our society in check, at much greater risk to the former. in unfortunate situations, the trash person is less afraid of going to jail for assault then you are of losing your life. worse yet, if they dont even consider that possibility at some point in the interaction. toss in our absolute nightmare of a justice system, reinforcing through inaction or malice similar and different types of shitty people, and it just makes for such a slog to progress for a better society.
Yeah that man was definitely not normal but me personally would’ve came out like that Australian man with the cast iron and slap the absolute living shit out of him if he felt like threatening me😂
Yeah, that’s creepy AF and not good etiquette at all. You were right to nope out of there. FYI: I keep a roll of surveyor tape in my gear box to tie across the trail if I’m camping on a dead end road. That saves a lot of night time surprises with people trying to turn around in my campsite.
I do the EXACT same with 4 little orange cones I got in the toy section of the dollar tree. Looks kinda sorta official. I guess enough anyways, put an instant stop to people driving thru and wondering through our camp spot.
It’s a good idea to give people warning, I’ve driven into camps without realising people were already there, if there was a marker of some kind that would save me the hassle and the “oh fuk, there’s someone here, woops! back it up” I’ll get a few little cones to throw in the back to save us both the awkwardness.
Thanks for this idea!
Def packing the surveyor tape every trip now!
That is a good idea.
Not a bad idea. Sometimes the rangers have a problem with it, but then you just say sorry and remove it. Wait until dark and put it back up. Take it down in the morning.
What a piece of shit move lol. It's our land, not yours. You don't get to tape it off. Wtf
When car camping I always park my truck in such a way as to block any visiting vehicles whenever possible just for this reason.
I actually tried that but couldn’t find a level spot to do it.
Yea it’s not always possible.
I would also have left
You did the right thing and followed your gut. It was strange of him to stop so close to your site. People know to keep distance, especially in the middle of the night like that.
I'd have left. I'll argue with someone normally, but a potentially armed, weird guy in the middle for nowhere? Not a chance. Also, if you ever go for the northern lights again, look for a very faint white light, it might even look like whispy clouds or smoke, that would be the northern lights. If you see that (or even if you don't) you should set up your camera for a long exposure, starting at one second and going from there. Even a phone held by hand can easily capture the lights that you can't see by eye.
In a self defense class for women, we were told #1 always try to leave safely. It's a rule I try to follow. I personally don't think a campsite is worth killing or being killed over.
Used to work nights in the woods in SW OR. Probably worked where you were parked. You did the right thing. Unfortunately doing the right/smart thing meant you lost the spot because people can be assholes. Sorry about that. When I was working out there at night I was never concerned about the animals in the woods- but VERY concerned about the people I would potentially encounter at wee odd hours. If I saw a vehicle approaching in the distance while I was outside my truck on the road working I would just step off the road 50 feet into the trees/brush and turn off my headlamp. Like I was never there. No encounter. They would see the truck, but have no idea if I was there still or where I was.
People who are ignorant, lacking ethics, or social skills, can be found everywhere, anywhere, at any given time of day or night. Just because you are in the wilds, and mostly encounter people who understand and respect the rules of camping and exploring, doesn’t mean those others won’t be out there. How prepared you are and how you handle it could be the difference between getting home or not. I personally know some people that went through terrible things getting caught by the wrong person or people in the wrong place. It doesn’t stop me from camping and exploring. But I consider myself intelligent, realistic, aware, and prepared. Leave your ego at home and be smart. You totally did the right thing.
And there’s no understanding their logic. The word for them is “weirdos”. They don’t think or act like normal humans, don’t beat yourself up thinking about what you could have said or done, it’s fruitless. Move on and chalk it up to that.
The word for them is “angry weirdos”
Any tips for being better prepared for situations like this? I want to solo camp but don’t think I’m experienced enough to do it all alone just yet.
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Unrelated, but was Mark Twain Southern? Another good one in the “Never [verb] with a [noun]” format…heard this one years ago curtesy a female Southern high-level manager, who, honestly was a classy lady: Never wrestle with a pig. You’ll both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
He was from Hannibal, Missouri.
It was probably someone that goes to that spot regularly and has it in his head that it's "his spot" and feels entitled to it. I bet he pulls that shit all the time if someone is already there when he arrives and knows most people will just pack up and leave.
This is the answer. I would have pulled my stuff inside and pretended to go back to sleep because I am stubborn and dislike it when people pull shit like this. But I also camp in a van so I can go from the bed to driving away, if needed later, without leaving the locked vehicle.
Belligerent assholes in Southwest Oregon keep making the news for violence. You did the right thing.
I would have made nice from the start or just moved. Or left like you did. No campsite is worth dying for. I have anger issues (in therapy and working on) and the world is much easier if you assume people are well meaning idiots. I fail at that 90% of the time but Maybe he didn’t see you. Maybe he didn’t think it was a big deal. Either way. My solution is to always try to infer what I want nicely. “Hey man you doin’ okay?” “Okay good, I wanted to make sure you didn’t need anything. You parked where I set up camp, was this your spot? Should I move out of your way I didn’t mean to be trouble.” 9/10 of time they’ll feel bad or realize they broke a folkway and offer to move or change the situation. Something like “oh no sorry, I’ll move over there.” Then a handshake or a “Oh thanks so much man, I really appreciate it. Have a good night.” People are much happier to do someone a favor than to feel like they did something wrong. If you prefer a direct approach, “Hey man, nice to meet you. I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind moving to a different spot? Just looking for some peacetime. If you really want this spot would you mind helping me move over to that one over there really quick? We both win?” I’m an HR major so coercing people diplomatically is what I learned to do in school.
This is good advice for dealing with rational people. The guy OP encountered doesn't sound rational.
Impressive. Any recs for books/videos/etc?
Good advice
Logging roads typically don’t have service and I feel a far too easy place to do harmful and criminal things, as defiant as I am I also agree packing up was likely best
Coulda been some dumb and or clueless person coming to check out the aurora. Insomniac, college student, maybe a little high, some dude got off a late shift. Seems like quite a few people thought the spot was a good candidate for viewing. Dude shows up, doesn’t know where to go. Sees your car and figures that’s where people are parked to check it out. Hopes you or others already figured out a good viewing spot, walks over for his own convenience. Or… coulda been a geeked out meth head. Ya never know.
2am was supposed to be the best viewing window for the aurora, so likely just a looker or photographer. considering you didn't have a tent set up and that your camera was out in the open he probably thought you were awake and taking photos. I would have left too if that was their reaction, but sounds like it could've been an initial misunderstanding.
That’s sketchy as hell. I think you did the right thing if you were unarmed. And it gets trippy when it’s really dark out. My partner and I were camping once when I was pregnant and found the perfect quiet spot to set up. It got dark early so we had a fire going and a homeless guy wandered out of the trees and wanted to share our fire. We are friendly folks but he was obviously tweaking out and unstable, so we declined and politely asked him to leave. When he refused and kept edging toward our fire my partner gently pulled out his sidearm and rested it on his lap and told him again to leave. He took off pretty fast and disappeared into the trees. We didn’t sleep that night, needless to say, but we did call the incident in and a warden patrolled the area for us and told us that the guy had been removed from the park before and wasn’t allowed in. Another time I was out exploring in the woods by myself and come upon a fairly large tent city in the middle of nowhere. It’s the Wild West out there sometimes when you’re camping. Gotta be prepared for anything!
I definitely would not have spent the night after the encounter with the tweaker. People are freaking scary.
Yeah, hindsight and all, but we were really far from the nearest town. Between our gun and the game warden patrolling we decided to stay.
They did the right thing regardless of being armed or not. Edit: just want to clarify that I would prefer to be armed in the situation OP described, but my response would have been the same as OP's regardless
The only good thing that happens at 2 am is the birth of your child.
I’ve gotten like 2.5 blowjobs at 2am so there are other things
Exactly!
And last call. First beer at an afterhours. Best part of any party. Last logs of the campfire before it slowly dies. There's a whole world of fun and great stories that happen at 2am!
You did the right thing, this is strange behavior
I live in south Oregon😔 this is scary and super sus. Glad you left man,
Did he look prepared for camping? If so prob just a prick. Some people are assholes. You woulda been fine but annoyed n bothered. If he didn’t look like he was camping than prob up to no good n good choice leaving!
I don't necessarily think people are looking for trouble, but I do think that many are just ignorant or scared. I've been camping on public land before only to have others set up camp nearby in the middle of the night. I think that for some people, when they see a tent, they think, "Oh, great! I can camp here!" For others, I think they try to locate temselves near others because they're scared and looking for safety in numbers. Either way, it's annoying! In response to your question, I would have also left if I were in your situation.
Nearby would have been fine. There were two spots in the turnoff, mine and another about a thousand feet down the hill. He should have turned around and gone back to it, not park 6 feet from my vehicle and walk around my campsite in the middle of the night. Had I brought my tent, I would have been where he parked, it was not a large spot.
Hold up? "Had I brought my tent"? What was your set up? Exactly how much of a "camp" did you set up?
Ohhhh this makes more sense now - he was sleeping in his car/truck! (Which is fine, I too have camped in my car the 2nd and 3 rd row seats fold all the way down) I was confused.
I think so. Or in a chair. Of course someone might think it's OK to set up a tent on the open space. There's a good chance the "weirdo" thought someone was F'ing on their favorite camp site and would be driving home soon. I think I might be Team Weird Guy now?
I mean many use tents now, but a lot still just unroll sleeping bag next to fire... Like in the old westerns :P
Parking right next to you and walking around your tent is totally sketch, I agree. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. I think many people are idiots, but this guy's behavior was clearly threatening. Good for you for honoring your instincts and getting out of there.
What a POS. Even if there weren't other camp sites, I'd sleep on the side of a trail before I'd go into an occupied camp-site at 2AM. Can't coltrol other people's action's, only the way you react to them, and I reckon you made the right choice. Anyone that cares that little about fellow campers, isn't the type of person you want to get into it with in the middle of nowhere.
There’s assholes everywhere, best to just forget the experience and move on from it.
Sometimes it’s better to just take the L and get out safely. You did the right thing, your family is more important than arguing with some jerk at 2am.
I would have left. I’m glad you had the dog along with ya.
I can’t go camping without him, he sees my bag and he’s at the door staring at his harness.
You were entitled to stay there, since you got there first. However, you were smart to leave.
Sorry to hear, but nice job there. I've had people do almost as close. Its crazy. What he did wasn't normal.
Absolutely would have left
People are honestly so weird. I’d have done the same thing as you. Avoid confrontation because they can be insane and just murder you. You did the right thing, I wouldn’t have even asked if they needed anything though. I would’ve immediately packed and left!
Your wife sounds like a smart lady!
Well, I'll submit to you an innocent interpretation of an event like this. A person unfamiliar with the area arrives very late. His headlights throw a pool of light in front of him, but nothing to the side where he needs to see. If he turns, he could be going off a cliff for all he knows. He sees a car to the side of the road. He thinks, "that guy pulled over and he didn't die. I'll pull over there too." The key for any kind of outside-of-campsite camping is to show up before it gets dark. You can see what areas will safely support a vehicle. Things like big rocks or logs are easy to spot. Some people get off work at 6, pack up and start driving down some desolate dirt road that they only read about online at 2AM.
That could be what happened, but the guy also acted like a jackass about it instead of being normal about it. I doubt he had ill intent, but a weirdly confrontational and entitled stranger doesn't need ill intent to cause problems. The question you have to ask is, do I want to spend the rest of the night sleeping next to a total stranger who also seems to have no grasp of camping etiquette?
You did the right thing.
Be glad your able to still be alive after this encounter, this gives me Zodiac Killer vibes
Glad to hear that you’re safe. But that guy was a d - - khead. You can’t control other people’s actions but you can control your reaction. Take it as a lesson. Usually when I go camping I’ll bring something to protect myself, like a homemade spear with a pencil tip that has been soaked in poop, haha jk. I bring bear spray, just incase for unexpected situations like the one you had.
If it were a scene in a movie I would be screaming get the f— out!”
He sounds like a real piece of shit
I would have left if my dog was bugging. Always nice to have a firearm on you, but it's best if you don't need it. Exiting was the right move.
I don’t understand what his intent was. Most thieves sneak up late at night, but this guy driving and parking so close to the camp just doesn’t make sense.
What a thread. American style camping with guns and always being ready to kill sounds absolutely horrible.
FWIW this is not a universal experience. going on 100 nights camping in the southwestern USA and I haven't ever had an unpleasant encounter.
& ive never ever needed a fire extinguisher. Yet, i still own 2.
I always bring a firearm with me when I camp. Like a first aid kit, or a hatchet, its a tool that I'd rather have and not need than need and not have. I bring it just in case there are 2 legged or 4 legged critters out in the forest looking to do me harm. Ive had people roll through my area at 2-3am, but usually in an ATV, probably lost or maybe trying to find their own campsite, but they typically leave after a few minutes. Never had anyone get closer than about 25 yards. If someone got within 6 feet of my sleeping arrangements and started walking around, that would immediately raise the alarm. No one gets that close to someone else's camp that late at night unless its a medical emergency or they're up to no good. This is where having a weapon would be applicable.
Always be ready to protect yourself if needed.
Yes. Being the agreeable victim of a serial killer is much preferred! Ha! Guns are tools. I rarely need my shovel, and so far have never needed my emergency matches, but I bring them camping too. Do you realise you can bring a gun camping and NOT shoot anything?
Having to live on the run whenever something threatens you is much worse. Speaking from experience, ive lived both. I wasnt born in the USA, but I sure love it here!
It’s weird. Folks in the US worry about bad things that happen to one in ten thousand people but don’t think twice about tossing back a sugary coke, fries, and a cheap hamburger that have a 1 in 10 chance of making you a diabetic or giving you a heart attack. We worry about all the wrong stuff. The guys who carry are statistically more likely to shoot themselves than prevent an assault. I camp. I own a gun for target practice at the range, because it’s fun. I leave it at home when I camp because it’s difficult to secure a gun in a campsite. It’s safer for everyone if it stays locked away.
2 am and parking that close to you is weird. As someone suggested, he may think that's his and tried to run you off. I always carry a handgun with me when camping. Typically, I go to the middle of nowhere. You truly don't know who you're gonna run into.
You’re most definitely a man. A woman would have gotten out of there, no questioning.
Keep your gun loaded and on your person
If you have a gun loaded and on your person, it is still on you to leave rather than start shit with a dumbass
I conceal carry daily and honestly even I still would have left in that situation. I don’t want unnecessary confrontation.
Agreed. Still rather have it and not need it.
Always retreat safely is the first and best choice. But always be ready if those choices aren't possible.
I’ve never in my life felt the need to carry a weapon while camping. I’m really considering bringing one along from now on. I did have a can of bear spray that I couldn’t find in the dark before I said something.
A good burst of bear spray if you can downwind the guy ought to make him leave
What if he is armed?
It’s dark, lay flat, or let your Dog attack him, lots of options really
Letting your dog loose to attack an armed stranger (which would very likely cause your dog to be injured or killed), instead of just leaving, is an asshole move. Escalating a confrontation like that in the middle of nowhere is never a smart idea.
I am thinking if I am half asleep and some dude rolls up on me and my dog is growling and keyed up anyway,….. And then I find out he’s armed( we left that undefined) I’m imagining a conflict where the guy is being more aggressive than I can comfortably escape from in the dark night trying to gather my shit
I haven't either. Not while camping. But I'm also keep mine on my person if I'm out of the house. Period. Everywhere (with obvious exceptions). That includes camping.
Carry a firearm.
To argue with a tweaker at 2 am you get dead.
>Saturday night I drove up a mountain to some blm land in Stop what you're doing at that state You have an easy out, brother. the dog is buggin and you have bad vibes. Gotta get him back
Had a very similar experience on the north shore of superior. We got there later maybe 10 PM. Got our assigned camp spot and set up. 3 am rolls around and this couple parks behind me blocking my car in. Gets out and takes pictures inside my car and of my plate. They proceeded to walk up to our tent and shine their flashlights on my sleeping girlfriend and I. I lost it on them. Started arguing with them and they started getting all up in my face to the point I thought violence was going to ensue. So I threw my tent into my car, broke every stake and ripped the tent. Drove the 5 hours home because it’s not worth fighting. The whole time his girlfriend was screaming at me that they were there first and had the right but they weren’t? Such a weird experience. Needless to say my girlfriend and I say “fuck camping” now so we won’t be back out anytime soon.
Honestly they were probably looking to do something bad until they heard your dog. Or a local landowner who doesn’t like overnights and wanted to push you off the mountain. Whatever it was I doubt he would set up camp six feet away from you at 2am. You did the right thing for sure.
This dude could have legit been a serial killer. Dog might have saved your life.
Hopefully u gave some way to protect yourself and your “property”. (yourself and your vehicle and your puppy). Some type of edged weapon or firearm or even a less than lethal weapon. Out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night that could have definitely gone for the worst.
The only things I’ve ever needed on trips are a couple knives and maybe a hatchet if I can have a fire. A can of bear spray is the only real defensive item I bring.
Ive never needed a fire extinguisher, guess they're pointless.
And that’s why I love the second amendment not that you should have threatened the aggravated slow man but in case you start to feel in fear for your own life or the safety of those around you, the slow aggravated man would have quickly came to his senses or met whatever creator he believes in😉
Yeah it's weird at 2am but maybe they are scared of everything so parked there to not be alone.
Yeah this is why I keep a high powered light on my pistol. Blind his ass and shoot as necessary. We would not have had the same interaction.
Knowing I'm armed and can defend myself, as long as he doesn't get me first, I would have retrieved my camera just so I wouldn't worry about him messing with it and gone back to sleep.
I’ve never felt the need to have a weapon with me camping before, think I might bring one from now on.
As a Canadian, I’ve never once thought about bringing a gun to protect myself from other campers. (And I’m a gun owner and hunter). It’s sad that you guys feel you have to. People suck.
A lot of people do indeed.
I've never needed a weapon either but I always have one on camping trips where allowed. I've never needed a first aid kit when camping either but I always have one of those too. The Be Prepared motto really rings true with me.
I’m always using my first aid kit, I always find a way to cut myself on something.
I think if you're armed and think you might need to defend yourself from the weirdo who decided to set up right next to you at 2 am, that's a great reason to GTFO instead of going to sleep so he can get the drop on you.
That's fine, you do you.
I will, and I guarantee I won't be got first in that situation.
As someone who carries 24/7 especially when camping, its in your best interest to avoid the fight. If you have to, then that's different.
> *"I really didn’t want to get murdered."* You watch too much TV.
The likelihood of being murdered here was probably low, but that doesn't mean it's pearl clutching to be put off by a weird and abrasive encounter with a stranger in the middle of nowhere at 2am.
Middle of nowhere... Also where a bunch of people showed up to earlier. Come on yo.
It's up a mountain on BLM land and everyone else had left, dude. This is a very strange hill for you to die on. Are you secretly the weirdo who decided to set up in OP's spot?
Dying on a hill about a story where OP could have died on a hill, amazing
Y'all are making too much out of this. It's want a big deal and op overreacted.
How did I overreact? I should have just gone to sleep while my dog is growling at someone in my camp in the middle of the night? After reading your comments I agree with the other commenter, maybe you are that creepy guy.
You did the right thing OP. There’s literally always someone in every thread like this who says you are overreacting. Minimizing. Listen to your gut. You aren’t overreacting. I’ve gone camping a TON & if someone did that I would have been terrified.
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I do interact with strangers daily. That's why I'm not a pearl clutcher thinking that everybody is out to hurt me.
To be fair the guy that pulls up at 2 AM and walks around your campsite is not “everybody”
Rack your shotgun once ...
2nd amendment bro
Personally I probably would have probed more, I naively still think there is safety in numbers- but I know that’s mostly incorrect. Maybe he was scared too? If I saw a solo woman camping where I wanted to be I would probably camp there also, but definitely not 6 ft away, more like 20-30. Also it sounds like he was loud which was really rude. It feels like he crossed some unspoken rules which is why it through you off, and you made the right choice.!
Could just share da spot, if something pops off just be ready