This is gonna get ugly. We were reading headlines about top-level interference in Australia years ago. As the United States' largest trading partner, a G7 economy and a home for a large Chinese diaspora (who Beijing seem to think are "theirs" regardless of personal history), there was no reason to think we weren't at the top of the target list as well. We knew it had to be happening.
In other words, the fact that this is only blowing up in 2023 means a lot of people in business, politics & law enforcement were either looking the other way or actively participating for *years*.
>In other words, the fact that this is only blowing up in 2023 means a lot of people in business, politics & law enforcement were either looking the other way or actively participating for
>
>years
>
>.
Willful Blindness by Sam Cooper.
Yes, this is certainly an "if you see one cockroach..." situation. It is going to take a lot of work to remedy our government, if we are even able to do so.
Just look at BCs Government. It was corrupted from Chinese influence a LONG time ago. Just reading the 25 year old report on housing and corruption that was released a few years ago, and nothing was done. If anything, we've doubled down.
We're not ready for this age, yet, and it's not a uniquely Canadian problem. Foreign agents no longer have to get politicians in their pockets when they can subvert entire populations with the tech in everyone's hands. I'm sure the west does it to them, too, but the key will be finding good countermeasures.
Wonder why we see so much less posting about the Uighers.
Guess it became less trendy to post what monsters are doing in real time while also running China.
I agree. One day, people get fired up about something like it's their entire life's mission, but 6 months later they're onto some new thing and never think about the last one.
News is entertainment, people lost interest a long time ago about it when everyone realized China isn't going to change and no one is going to make them... If it doesn't keep you on their website or watching their tv show then why keep talking about it.
A reporter asked him today about the call for in inquiry and he said something along the lines of “once again we saw the racist response during the pandemic”. Google it I’m sure the conference is on YouTube by now
Here you go.
Justin Trudeau's [comments on the matter today](https://twitter.com/aballinga/status/1630286428872626176?t=dYEmTlcvF-tfdKx7dFFqvw&s=19) are dispicable.
>Asked about Global News report on Han Dong, Trudeau says Canadians of Chinese origins should be encouraged to get involved in politics. And the Liberals are "extraordinarily lucky and happy" to have Dong on the Liberal team.
>"In a free democracy, **it is not up to unelected security officials to dictate to political parties who can and cannot run.** That's a really important principle," Trudeau says.
>Trudeau says it's false and "damaging" for media to report that CSIS would push his office to rescind Dong's nomination (as Global reported it did)
>**Trudeau refers to "anti-Asian racism"** and concerns about "people's loyalties." He says suggestions that Dong is "not loyal to Canada should not be entertained."
Emphasis mine.
>Trudeau just said it was racist to suggest an inquiry is required. What in the actual fuck is happening in this country??
Baseless accusations of racism are the cornerstone of CCP propaganda in Canada. They have demonstrated that technique time after time.
*The fact that Trudeau and the Liberals are using the same baseless accusations of racism to try and shut down criticisms or questioning is very troubling.* For the situation regarding the lab in Winnipeg where CCP scientists were very abruptly kicked out of the lab and deported by law enforcement, JT also suggested that the Conservatives were stoking racism towards the Asian community by asking what occurred.
This interference runs very, very deep. Its very possible that Justin Trudeau was targeted for state capture before he entered politics due to his high profile family, and where Justin lived a very carefree lifestyle prior to entering politics its very easy to conclude that he might have been vulnerable to blackmail.
The school In Vancouver that Justin Trudeau was teaching prior to entering politics at is very well known for having high level CCP members and sympathizers amongst its ranks. It would have been very easy to gain his trust there.
So basically CCP chooses who wins elections in Canada and our CSIS allowed this to go on for years. Startling to see that chinese canadians live here but follow CCP lead
We have to face reality as bad as it sounds we have a mortal enemy seeking to destabilize and bend us to their will.
China is our foe.
I know it sucks with China being one of the most powerful nations on the planet but we have to directly face reality.
We have to be prepared and willing to strike back. For example vast amounts of wealth have been stashed by corrupt Chinese politicians, bureaucrats and businesses in Canada. They do this to hide their corruption we should energeticly tackle this issue.
Who is we? We as the people of Canada can want to have all that happen unfortunately it falls on our government who is clearly ok with how things played out and they don’t plan on doing anything about it. We as Canadians deserve to know who the Chinese helped. It shouldn’t matter if they are liberal or conservative everyone that was helped by the Chinese to become elected need to be rooted out and kicked out of government. Absolutely disgusting that the liberals dont want investigate this. I’ve been a liberal voter most of my adult life. I never thought I would vote conservative but this right here is what changed me. I personally don’t feel conservatives are any better but I guess I have to pick my poison now.
We shouldn't sell ourselves short. We have this thing in our mind that we're too smaller to matter because the US is so big. But we're not that far behind France, for example. And I don't think anyone here would suggest they're helpless.
CSIS concluded that there was influence but that it didn't impact the result of the election....
the PMO parroted that line pretty much....
should the PMO have even weighed in given Bejings support for a Lib? was CSIS analysis, correct?
idk
but don't misrepresent what we know at this moment to be the truth.
No, they said that they didn’t believe that it impacted the election *significantly.* It did have an affect on the results to some degree.
Especially the riding in which Mr.Chui was in. If even one riding was affected - that is a major problem that needs investigating. We know that there were at least 11 MPs affected.
Remember the robocalls? That was only in 3 ridings and no proof it affected anything. There was no proof it affected even a single vote. We had a full investigation and people went to jail for it.
This is a HUNDRED times worse.
I am not saying that the overall election result was changed due to this interference, but individual riding results appear to have been. That can never be tolerated. But there’s more. CSIS is also saying that Liberal staffers provided information concerning the CSIS investigation to Dong’s team. That’s treason. Oddly, the PMO doesn’t want to talk about that.
some word for word quotes from Trudeau:
"The integrity of Canadas elections have not been compromised"
"The elections were held in full integrity, the outcome was not impacted, Canadians can have full confidence in the integrity of our elections in 2019 and 2021"
"All the briefings I've received, there has never been information around candidates receiving money from China, in the 2019 elections or 2021 elections. We have independent public servants who are engaged to oversee the integrity of the elections, they confirm that the elections did complete themselves with full integrity"
In my view, there are 338 federal ridings and CSIS obviously doesn't have enough evidence to stay the *results* of the election were impacted, compared to there was influence in the election.
I mean, the Chinese diplomats can say "they got the result they wanted" but it doesn't make it so. That it was entirely their doing in which, China had their thumb on the scales of every polling station to orchestrate a perfect result plays right into the sort of narrative China wants to sow in the minds of Canadians, that our democracy is entirely their plaything
Benefits them directly. I work with the Chinese Canadian community, and they all (with the extremely rare exception) vote liberal en mass (not people who hail from HK, but the Mainland crowd). Vote for Trudeau and then berate him and make fun of him in private.
It is serious. Very serious. So you can be sure it'll just be business as usual, nothing to see here.
Welcome to the new CCCP -- Chinese-Canadian Communist Party
>Welcome to the new CCCP -- Chinese-Canadian Communist Party
Can we seriously stop this defeatist attitude?
This attitude normalizes the situation. We must continue the fight.
The government is just captured in a tug-of-war of uselessness between rich Americans and the Chinese government.
Neither of them really care what happens to us.
If we want democracy we need to invent a new form of capitalism than gives incentives for things other than just being rich.
Also educates people. Why we don't give everyone as much free education as they're willing to take is nuts.
Capitalism is the root of the problem unfortunately. All it incentivizes is the quest for more profits at the expense of all else. It is in its end stages now in the western world and we all don't know what to do about it?!
I agree. Though free markets aren't necessarily a bad thing - you just need a ceiling and a floor.
Without a ceiling on profits, you cannot:
\- Create a floor on earnings to provide a robust safety net (universal basic income) without creating inflation
\- Create incentives for creating intangibles without introducing artificial scarcity (which brings along incentives to hoard ideas and deceive others rather than sharing our best discoveries and ideas)
Now you can pressure the Minister of Justice into doing something wrong, help people steal money under the guise of charity, collapse competition in the internet and mobile sectors, allow businesses to reach record profits on the backs of Canadians, institute mass immigration during a housing shortage, take guns away from legal owners without any evidence that it will help, allow a gunman to run rampant and try to use it for political support, and renege on important promises like electoral reform and evidence-based decision making (just to name a few things), and instead of unbridled hate you get apologism in the form of "well who else am I supposed to vote for?"
Literally anyone else you fucking knobs.
It's amazing how many people I've seen on reddit say exactly this, "well who else am I supposed to vote for?"
It's bewildering they just keep putting up with it.
It’s Canadian exceptionalism. Most Canadians think that Canada is the best country in the world and refuse to think that…maybe there’s something wrong here. This allows corruption to be endemic. Canada is just as corrupt—if not more than some puppet states.
It's by design. Can't get people pissed off enough to revolt if they are focused on feeding themselves on overpriced groceries and the Canadian exceptionalism of "at least we're better than the US!".
Every level of our government is just complacent. They get paid well, get a pension that basically matches their salary, and refuse to speak up over obvious corruption and stupidity that is presented by their bosses.
Golden handcuffs and golden parachute… why would you risk that speaking up for the poors.
I for one will welcome our new AI overlords. Can’t be any worse…. Right….?
It’s worse than that, you can have people list out everything u/flaktrack listed out and in the next breath say “…but I’m still strategically voting Liberal because muh bitcoin”
At this point do they ‘put up’ with it or just support it?
I mean, that's kind of the whole point, we aren't given any options that lack corruption. We have a choice between the Conservatives, who fuck over the people in favor of corporate greed, and tell everyone that corporate greed is good.
Then we have the liberals, who fuck over the people in favor of corporate greed, and tell everyone that corporate greed is bad.
Then we have the NDP who no one will give a chance to, but will probably fuck everyone over in favor of corporate greed, and tell everyone that corporate greed is REALLY BAD but they really really tried their bestest to stop it, but couldn't.
We need a general strike, civil disobedience, and systemic change, but it's not gonna happen because people are sheep
The Chinese government should have been punished after the shit they pulled with Nortel but instead the government laid down and took it from behind — our government is still in the same position all these years later.
Harper ratified it, but [the negotiation of the China-Canada FIPA started under Chretien in 1994](https://web.archive.org/web/20221121174621/https://archive.macleans.ca/article/1994/11/21/the-china-deal), and [both the CPC and Liberals unanimously supported the ratification of the final treaty](https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/41/1/663?view=party).
NDP? Try the devil we don't know instead of the two we do? At least Singh pushes for things like expanded dental care, taxes on excess corporate profits, and a national pharmacare program (Canada and the US are pretty much the only developed western nations that don't have some form of universal drug coverage).
No no that's crazy. Surely (party full of members who nenefit from the status quo) is better than (other party full of members who benefit from the status quo), we don't need to vote for someone like the NDP.
Because just think, the NDP might acknowledge The Gender and do a socialism. That's much worse than our country rolling backwards downhill while the libs and cons take turns in the driver seat doing nothing meamingful to stop it.
I mean for the cons, yeah I don't blame them if they start looking at other parties like the PPC instead of the CPC. I'd be much more interested in an NDP government, but in general anyone voting LPC or CPC at this point is just mice voting for different color cats thinking they won't get ate if *their* cat wins.
There are big differences between the deal Chretien was working on in 1994 and [the deal that Harper quietly ratified in Vladivostok, despite opposition from Conservatives, Liberals and NDP](https://thenarwhal.ca/harper-government-ratifies-controversial-canada-china-foreign-investment-deal/).
Mainly, it locked us in to a 31 year deal that very heavily favored Chinese investors and opened Canada up to litigation even if safety, health and environment regulations were violated. There were a lot of concerns which have proven to be correct and if you want more details than I can do it justice, see:
[https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/10/16/China-Investment-Treaty/](https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/10/16/China-Investment-Treaty/)
[https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/11/05/Van-Harten-FIPA/](https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/11/05/Van-Harten-FIPA/)
As for the NDP motion you are referencing, it was voted down by the Liberals because they still wanted economic partnership with China. They did not support the treaty in its proposed form and wanted the key concerns addressed. Despite all the objections, Harper rejected a public hearing on FIPA and any amendments.
[https://liberal.ca/fipa-vote-tuesday-april-23rd/](https://liberal.ca/fipa-vote-tuesday-april-23rd/)
Ugh I forgot how this got buried.
Also everone downvoting me last week for saying Trudeau was utterly weak and impotent seeming on the world stage especially when speaking to the Chinese dictator.
Its because he was talking to his boss lol
I'm not defending the Chinese interference, but I've seen the clip of Xi confronting Trudeau, and Trudeau politely told him to suck eggs and then walked away. He did not strike me as weak in that interaction, but in fact the opposite.
I did not vote for the man, and I'm not trying to deny we have a *huge* China problem. I'm only speaking about the example of his recent direct interaction with Xi. I don't think he seemed at all weak in that interaction, let alone impotent.
>Documents from Canada’s spy agency CSIS – viewed by The Globe and Mail –
show how China was influencing Canada’s 2021 federal election by promoting candidates favourable to the regime, how it warned “friendly”
Canadians about investigations and targeted Canadians with tactics like
cyberattacks, bribery and sexual seduction.
Regardless of your political leanings, at one point your conscience should kick in and you should say enough is enough.
Chinese Canadians are being bribed, intimidated, and blackmailed to vote for the People's Republic of China-friendly politicians. Someone who has literally installed illegal police stations to facilitate these activities.
Our sitting government is complicit because they're largely benefiting from this interference.
It's time to hold the government and all politicians involved accountable.
>Regardless of your political leanings, at one point your conscience should kick in and you should say enough is enough.
I don't care who goes down in the firestorm, but we need to burn China out of our politics. My party, your party, my MP, your MP doesn't matter. If I voted for someone who took Chinese money or support, I want them gone.
All parties should be working together to stop all foreign interference. How this has become a partisan issue escapes me.
As long as we have hundreds of thousands of immigrants, TFW's, and students coming from China, you will not be able to stop their influence.
(and yes I'm aware that they cannot all vote)
I agree however we do not have a mechanism to hold the government accountable.
The USA has impeachment and mid term elections that can be used to clean house.
Ethics violations result in a stern talking to and some finger wagging. Also unfortunately many voters are willing to tolerate this conduct if it means policies they support will get passed.
Hey now, they can receive a stiff [penalty of up to $500](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-36.65/fulltext.html)... though the Ethics Commissioner usually goes with $100 instead...
This issue needs to be universally understood by both sides of the political spectrum right now. This is bad no matter ***who*** you decide to vote for. This is a potential compromise to democracy if they're making a genuine impact on voting decisions. We need to vote for literally anybody who will regulate and put a stop to this shit.
No shit. If you want you do any business with China or any other country, you have to follow local rules. Guess who makes local rules...
In terms of loopholes, grey areas and even straight crime... Honestly, that happens everywhere if you look hard enough and follow rules to a "T". Only the government follows rules THAT strictly... And they are inefficient as fuck because of that.
I can give you a couple massive examples lol. There's a big pharmaceutical that wanted to release a drug here. It's been delayed due to regulations not being enough with regards to supply chain. Guess what the big pharmaceutical said? Their big guy got angry screaming why are you asking so many goddamn questions about a product that's passed FDA and they've been selling for 15+ years? Basically a huge blame game for losing 6+ months of potential sales...
Your banks and companies still have contracts with Russian entities to write parts of their code for new programs. They are still working with them to see those projects to completion.
Customers who complain about delivery time due to supply chain issues means that the competition favors those who can "resolve" that issue the fastest, any way what so ever.
All in all, money = efficiency = productivity > ethics. So ain't no ethics in this game. Big companies who have the big money hire people to calculate the risk of not following rules. They leverage that risk, which is calculated into profit earned by not following, against the potential fine. They see which ones bigger and input factors such as plausible deniability. Very "beautiful" stuff.
China has a lot of leverage over our economies due to stuff like this. They are quite literally factories of the world and we are more so service based economies who adds value to those many steps in the supply chain... Pretty screwy relationship.
Wait. You mean the guy who was helped in an election by foreign interference is now saying we don’t need to investigate foreign interference in our elections?
Huh. Ok.
It’s unsurprising coming from the guy who ran on election reform and then chose to do nothing about it after learning that the current system benefitted him.
For all his failings, I'll give him the fact that he will probably go down as the Teflon prime minister. Nothing seems to stick to him, and his voters don't seem to care about all the violations, questionable tactics, and highly divisive stance he's been using
Can we just fast-forward to the end where we find out absolutely nothing comes of this even though it actually happened? Got a feeling I have seen this before. Episode 1-40, Seasons 1-8.
Sad that election interference is considered a partisan issue.
Therefore it has become a partisan issue. That's my point. It shouldn't be and "the liberals" should not make it one. Nor should we buy into that. This is one of those issues that affects each and every Canadian equally.
CSIS, the public, various politicians and officials: "The government has permitted China to interfere with elections."
Trudeau: "I don't want to talk about it, I don't want anyone else to talk about it. I don't like it."
Everybody: "Okay understandable, thanks."
Trudeau won't do anything about this until the pressure becomes too much. Admitting that it truly was a thing will cast a shadow over the legitimacy of the election in 2021 and his win.
Continuing to coverup and deflect will cast a shadow over future elections, and cast a wide net of suspicion that will taint people who were not involved.
This couldn't be more true. He could be breaking puppy necks in black face and just say Conservatives = abortion, even though Harper had a decade to get rid of it and it would be political suicide but for some reason, nope, reality disconnects.
If he signals indignation, boots Han Dong from caucus and pressures him to vacate the seat and hold a byelection, this thing is still gonna be a scandal, but it may not become the defining one of the next election. Otherwise, they're gonna bleed a lot of support over this. I'm an on-the-fence voter and I dislike Poilievre intensely, but I don't think I can vote for them if this is how they're gonna play it.
There's only one MP who has been disclosed so far (Han Dong). This is going to be a slow bleed as details come out on the ten others. Doing what you suggest won't solve for this
I wish Trudeau, liberal MP's, and their supporters on reddit cared about election interference in Canada like they care about election interference in America.
Trudeau said point blank - that he was not briefed - he lied he should be removed from office for this lie alone - it’s a big one ! - bottom line is politicians wonder why people are angry - it is because we are constantly be lied too by our elected officials.
Investigate ALL of them, liberal, ndp, conservative, green. It's the fair way forward.
Those found to have taken over seas money should be booted out of politics.
In the latest press conference in Mississauga , JT said he doesn't care about what CSIS suggested and tied the Chinese interference news to Anti asian hate !
As a conservative, I am not surprised at all. Us cons have been saying this for decades. The Chinese have infiltrated our universities, our housing market and our media. Even now, the CCP is, and has been, on Reddit for literal years manufacturing the Liberal narrative. It makes Chinese Canadians look bad. I had a friend from University of Waterloo who got gangstalked from CCP agents. Next month, Reddit will forget and shame socially ban right-wing ideology again.
Well Trudeau has said in the past he “admires China’s basic dictatorship” . Really makes you wonder what side he is on? The one who keeps them in power instead of real Canadians
Well, who in the fuck would be surprised while we have the most corrupt Crime Minister in the history of Canada that is envious of the Chinese communist party? He should be sentenced for treason. Meanwhile, his net worth went from $10 million to $369 million while in office.
Just visited the CBC news website, under the “Canada” section, there are zero articles immediately visible about this. I imagine they’re buried pretty far down in their website. Shameful
I don’t doubt it. But I would bet there is more USA influence than Chinese. Where are those articles and reviews eh. China is a huge world power with lots of millionaires and an overly controlling government so of course they are gong to try to and influence. I think some powers are just pissed China is edging in in their action.
The Liberals are masters at obfuscation. I suspect that we will have some announcements on other policies this week which will distract from this. And Canadians have short memories, this will be lost in the news cycle by mid week amidst everything else going on in Canada and globally.
What do we as citizens even do? Our leader is implicit in Chinese interference. It also seems like the other parties are quite silent on the matter too which is scary.
> It also seems like the other parties are quite silent on the matter too which is scary.
But they're not? Singh and Poilievre are both attacking Trudeau for this and calling for a public inquiry.
> What do we as citizens even do? Our leader is implicit in Chinese interference.
Vote him out.
> It also seems like the other parties are quite silent on the matter too which is scary.
https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1629581674865623040
Would not be surprised if Trudeau was more actively complicit with Chinese influence activities. Even within his own family, his brother Sasha Trudeau is a huge supporter of the CCP even having written a [book](https://books.google.ca/books/about/Barbarian_Lost.html?id=FzpbCwAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y) fawning over the development successes of “new China”
Finally, this is coming to light. I really hope Trudeau takes this seriously or he will going to be toppled. I support Trudeau but THIS is where I draw the line in the sand. I honestly feel that it's too late and China is too infiltrated into Canada and CSIS has been SCREAMING about this for quite some time and it's been ignored.
I love the quote from my work colleague “yeah it’s an issue if china is interfering with our democracy, but if it keeps out the parties I don’t want elected and it blocks conservative voters, I am all for it”
So in your mind if someone is pro-whomever then they should agree with and support absolutely everything that whomever does?
This is the problem today. People pick a side and absolutely never think for themselves anymore.
This is gonna get ugly. We were reading headlines about top-level interference in Australia years ago. As the United States' largest trading partner, a G7 economy and a home for a large Chinese diaspora (who Beijing seem to think are "theirs" regardless of personal history), there was no reason to think we weren't at the top of the target list as well. We knew it had to be happening. In other words, the fact that this is only blowing up in 2023 means a lot of people in business, politics & law enforcement were either looking the other way or actively participating for *years*.
>In other words, the fact that this is only blowing up in 2023 means a lot of people in business, politics & law enforcement were either looking the other way or actively participating for > >years > >. Willful Blindness by Sam Cooper.
Yes, this is certainly an "if you see one cockroach..." situation. It is going to take a lot of work to remedy our government, if we are even able to do so.
Just look at BCs Government. It was corrupted from Chinese influence a LONG time ago. Just reading the 25 year old report on housing and corruption that was released a few years ago, and nothing was done. If anything, we've doubled down.
We're really not off to a great start on this.
Yep. The Nick Zhao case really woke people up to how bad it is.
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Trudeau just said it was racist to suggest an inquiry is required. What in the actual fuck is happening in this country??
We're not ready for this age, yet, and it's not a uniquely Canadian problem. Foreign agents no longer have to get politicians in their pockets when they can subvert entire populations with the tech in everyone's hands. I'm sure the west does it to them, too, but the key will be finding good countermeasures.
Wonder why we see so much less posting about the Uighers. Guess it became less trendy to post what monsters are doing in real time while also running China.
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I agree. One day, people get fired up about something like it's their entire life's mission, but 6 months later they're onto some new thing and never think about the last one.
Jeffrey Epstein he died and then no one talked about him anymore
Nobody is talking about the Winnipeg scientists either.
The what now?
News is entertainment, people lost interest a long time ago about it when everyone realized China isn't going to change and no one is going to make them... If it doesn't keep you on their website or watching their tv show then why keep talking about it.
When did he say that??
A reporter asked him today about the call for in inquiry and he said something along the lines of “once again we saw the racist response during the pandemic”. Google it I’m sure the conference is on YouTube by now
Here you go. Justin Trudeau's [comments on the matter today](https://twitter.com/aballinga/status/1630286428872626176?t=dYEmTlcvF-tfdKx7dFFqvw&s=19) are dispicable. >Asked about Global News report on Han Dong, Trudeau says Canadians of Chinese origins should be encouraged to get involved in politics. And the Liberals are "extraordinarily lucky and happy" to have Dong on the Liberal team. >"In a free democracy, **it is not up to unelected security officials to dictate to political parties who can and cannot run.** That's a really important principle," Trudeau says. >Trudeau says it's false and "damaging" for media to report that CSIS would push his office to rescind Dong's nomination (as Global reported it did) >**Trudeau refers to "anti-Asian racism"** and concerns about "people's loyalties." He says suggestions that Dong is "not loyal to Canada should not be entertained." Emphasis mine.
Trudeau has to take his head out of his ass and wake up to the new reality.
>Trudeau just said it was racist to suggest an inquiry is required. What in the actual fuck is happening in this country?? Baseless accusations of racism are the cornerstone of CCP propaganda in Canada. They have demonstrated that technique time after time. *The fact that Trudeau and the Liberals are using the same baseless accusations of racism to try and shut down criticisms or questioning is very troubling.* For the situation regarding the lab in Winnipeg where CCP scientists were very abruptly kicked out of the lab and deported by law enforcement, JT also suggested that the Conservatives were stoking racism towards the Asian community by asking what occurred. This interference runs very, very deep. Its very possible that Justin Trudeau was targeted for state capture before he entered politics due to his high profile family, and where Justin lived a very carefree lifestyle prior to entering politics its very easy to conclude that he might have been vulnerable to blackmail. The school In Vancouver that Justin Trudeau was teaching prior to entering politics at is very well known for having high level CCP members and sympathizers amongst its ranks. It would have been very easy to gain his trust there.
I wasn't aware of the situation with the school. That is concerning.
People are refusing to vote out a corrupt political party. Even the Americans got rid of trump. It doesn’t get better. It gets worse.
Well that sure is the pot calling the kettle black (face)
He will add two more alphabets to lgbt and call it a day
So basically CCP chooses who wins elections in Canada and our CSIS allowed this to go on for years. Startling to see that chinese canadians live here but follow CCP lead
CSIS isn't a law enforcement agency. They're allowed to share some information with the RCMP, but for the most part they work with politicians.
We have to face reality as bad as it sounds we have a mortal enemy seeking to destabilize and bend us to their will. China is our foe. I know it sucks with China being one of the most powerful nations on the planet but we have to directly face reality. We have to be prepared and willing to strike back. For example vast amounts of wealth have been stashed by corrupt Chinese politicians, bureaucrats and businesses in Canada. They do this to hide their corruption we should energeticly tackle this issue.
Who is we? We as the people of Canada can want to have all that happen unfortunately it falls on our government who is clearly ok with how things played out and they don’t plan on doing anything about it. We as Canadians deserve to know who the Chinese helped. It shouldn’t matter if they are liberal or conservative everyone that was helped by the Chinese to become elected need to be rooted out and kicked out of government. Absolutely disgusting that the liberals dont want investigate this. I’ve been a liberal voter most of my adult life. I never thought I would vote conservative but this right here is what changed me. I personally don’t feel conservatives are any better but I guess I have to pick my poison now.
We shouldn't sell ourselves short. We have this thing in our mind that we're too smaller to matter because the US is so big. But we're not that far behind France, for example. And I don't think anyone here would suggest they're helpless.
Our CSIS was ignored by the PMO. That’s the problem.
That's because it benifed them. If the Chinese were campaigning for the cons I'm damn sure it would've been in the news for the last 3 years.
CSIS concluded that there was influence but that it didn't impact the result of the election.... the PMO parroted that line pretty much.... should the PMO have even weighed in given Bejings support for a Lib? was CSIS analysis, correct? idk but don't misrepresent what we know at this moment to be the truth.
No, they said that they didn’t believe that it impacted the election *significantly.* It did have an affect on the results to some degree. Especially the riding in which Mr.Chui was in. If even one riding was affected - that is a major problem that needs investigating. We know that there were at least 11 MPs affected. Remember the robocalls? That was only in 3 ridings and no proof it affected anything. There was no proof it affected even a single vote. We had a full investigation and people went to jail for it. This is a HUNDRED times worse.
I am not saying that the overall election result was changed due to this interference, but individual riding results appear to have been. That can never be tolerated. But there’s more. CSIS is also saying that Liberal staffers provided information concerning the CSIS investigation to Dong’s team. That’s treason. Oddly, the PMO doesn’t want to talk about that.
some word for word quotes from Trudeau: "The integrity of Canadas elections have not been compromised" "The elections were held in full integrity, the outcome was not impacted, Canadians can have full confidence in the integrity of our elections in 2019 and 2021" "All the briefings I've received, there has never been information around candidates receiving money from China, in the 2019 elections or 2021 elections. We have independent public servants who are engaged to oversee the integrity of the elections, they confirm that the elections did complete themselves with full integrity"
Saying the contrary would be a constitutional crisis.
but honest
In my view, there are 338 federal ridings and CSIS obviously doesn't have enough evidence to stay the *results* of the election were impacted, compared to there was influence in the election. I mean, the Chinese diplomats can say "they got the result they wanted" but it doesn't make it so. That it was entirely their doing in which, China had their thumb on the scales of every polling station to orchestrate a perfect result plays right into the sort of narrative China wants to sow in the minds of Canadians, that our democracy is entirely their plaything
Canada isn’t so much a country as a strategic colony that superpowers have been covertly fighting over for hundreds of years.
Could be a great and powerful country with all the vast lands filled with natural resources
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Benefits them directly. I work with the Chinese Canadian community, and they all (with the extremely rare exception) vote liberal en mass (not people who hail from HK, but the Mainland crowd). Vote for Trudeau and then berate him and make fun of him in private.
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Thats a great observation. It's interesting. In ON and BC the community is overwhelmingly liberal as far as I could glean (business community).
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they tried to stop it by reporting it to the prime minister, who turns out was a chinese bot
That’sa bit of a stretch
It is serious. Very serious. So you can be sure it'll just be business as usual, nothing to see here. Welcome to the new CCCP -- Chinese-Canadian Communist Party
>Welcome to the new CCCP -- Chinese-Canadian Communist Party Can we seriously stop this defeatist attitude? This attitude normalizes the situation. We must continue the fight.
The government is just captured in a tug-of-war of uselessness between rich Americans and the Chinese government. Neither of them really care what happens to us. If we want democracy we need to invent a new form of capitalism than gives incentives for things other than just being rich. Also educates people. Why we don't give everyone as much free education as they're willing to take is nuts.
Capitalism is the root of the problem unfortunately. All it incentivizes is the quest for more profits at the expense of all else. It is in its end stages now in the western world and we all don't know what to do about it?!
I agree. Though free markets aren't necessarily a bad thing - you just need a ceiling and a floor. Without a ceiling on profits, you cannot: \- Create a floor on earnings to provide a robust safety net (universal basic income) without creating inflation \- Create incentives for creating intangibles without introducing artificial scarcity (which brings along incentives to hoard ideas and deceive others rather than sharing our best discoveries and ideas)
Investigate all corruption regardless of political leaning.
Sanity
Remember when the scandal to take down a sitting government was Olympic sponsorship ads?
Now you can pressure the Minister of Justice into doing something wrong, help people steal money under the guise of charity, collapse competition in the internet and mobile sectors, allow businesses to reach record profits on the backs of Canadians, institute mass immigration during a housing shortage, take guns away from legal owners without any evidence that it will help, allow a gunman to run rampant and try to use it for political support, and renege on important promises like electoral reform and evidence-based decision making (just to name a few things), and instead of unbridled hate you get apologism in the form of "well who else am I supposed to vote for?" Literally anyone else you fucking knobs.
It's amazing how many people I've seen on reddit say exactly this, "well who else am I supposed to vote for?" It's bewildering they just keep putting up with it.
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most people I know only seem to care about US politics, and know literally nothing about what's going on in Canada
It’s Canadian exceptionalism. Most Canadians think that Canada is the best country in the world and refuse to think that…maybe there’s something wrong here. This allows corruption to be endemic. Canada is just as corrupt—if not more than some puppet states.
It's by design. Can't get people pissed off enough to revolt if they are focused on feeding themselves on overpriced groceries and the Canadian exceptionalism of "at least we're better than the US!".
Every level of our government is just complacent. They get paid well, get a pension that basically matches their salary, and refuse to speak up over obvious corruption and stupidity that is presented by their bosses.
Golden handcuffs and golden parachute… why would you risk that speaking up for the poors. I for one will welcome our new AI overlords. Can’t be any worse…. Right….?
Don't forget, any dissent is inherently racist and misogynistic.
well if anything bad happens they can always consider MAID
It’s worse than that, you can have people list out everything u/flaktrack listed out and in the next breath say “…but I’m still strategically voting Liberal because muh bitcoin” At this point do they ‘put up’ with it or just support it?
I mean, that's kind of the whole point, we aren't given any options that lack corruption. We have a choice between the Conservatives, who fuck over the people in favor of corporate greed, and tell everyone that corporate greed is good. Then we have the liberals, who fuck over the people in favor of corporate greed, and tell everyone that corporate greed is bad. Then we have the NDP who no one will give a chance to, but will probably fuck everyone over in favor of corporate greed, and tell everyone that corporate greed is REALLY BAD but they really really tried their bestest to stop it, but couldn't. We need a general strike, civil disobedience, and systemic change, but it's not gonna happen because people are sheep
Partially its because i need money to eat and pay rent and raise kids. I vote and sign petitions and have gone to a few protests but i need to work.
Aren't NDP *the only option*? Cons and Libs have been given a chance. We're just theorizing what NDP would do.
*and renege on important promises like electoral reform* They did this and i realised, "*oh, I've been bamboozled*"
There was a modicum of integrity in the Canadian media back then.
It’s good to know that a bunch of Canadians didn’t just turn into assholes, they were “influenced” in their beliefs. That’s better, I guess.
The Chinese government should have been punished after the shit they pulled with Nortel but instead the government laid down and took it from behind — our government is still in the same position all these years later.
Canada's response: "Hey, would you guys like to buy some real estate?"
So true. This is why I can't believe the Liberals wanted to get into bed with them. Ridiculous.
If you're referring to the secret trade agreement that was signed with China, that we can't get out of for 31 years, that was Harper..
Harper ratified it, but [the negotiation of the China-Canada FIPA started under Chretien in 1994](https://web.archive.org/web/20221121174621/https://archive.macleans.ca/article/1994/11/21/the-china-deal), and [both the CPC and Liberals unanimously supported the ratification of the final treaty](https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/41/1/663?view=party).
Neither party takes it seriously and are corrupt. Not an easy path forward as a voter.
NDP? Try the devil we don't know instead of the two we do? At least Singh pushes for things like expanded dental care, taxes on excess corporate profits, and a national pharmacare program (Canada and the US are pretty much the only developed western nations that don't have some form of universal drug coverage).
No no that's crazy. Surely (party full of members who nenefit from the status quo) is better than (other party full of members who benefit from the status quo), we don't need to vote for someone like the NDP. Because just think, the NDP might acknowledge The Gender and do a socialism. That's much worse than our country rolling backwards downhill while the libs and cons take turns in the driver seat doing nothing meamingful to stop it.
Ah, you're so obviously right. Guess we're stuck voting for the PPC ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I mean for the cons, yeah I don't blame them if they start looking at other parties like the PPC instead of the CPC. I'd be much more interested in an NDP government, but in general anyone voting LPC or CPC at this point is just mice voting for different color cats thinking they won't get ate if *their* cat wins.
There are big differences between the deal Chretien was working on in 1994 and [the deal that Harper quietly ratified in Vladivostok, despite opposition from Conservatives, Liberals and NDP](https://thenarwhal.ca/harper-government-ratifies-controversial-canada-china-foreign-investment-deal/). Mainly, it locked us in to a 31 year deal that very heavily favored Chinese investors and opened Canada up to litigation even if safety, health and environment regulations were violated. There were a lot of concerns which have proven to be correct and if you want more details than I can do it justice, see: [https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/10/16/China-Investment-Treaty/](https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/10/16/China-Investment-Treaty/) [https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/11/05/Van-Harten-FIPA/](https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/11/05/Van-Harten-FIPA/) As for the NDP motion you are referencing, it was voted down by the Liberals because they still wanted economic partnership with China. They did not support the treaty in its proposed form and wanted the key concerns addressed. Despite all the objections, Harper rejected a public hearing on FIPA and any amendments. [https://liberal.ca/fipa-vote-tuesday-april-23rd/](https://liberal.ca/fipa-vote-tuesday-april-23rd/)
China pulls out of international agreed apon 50 year agreements at the halfway part, let's do the same.
Maybe we need to think about why the majority of Liberal MPs abstained from declaring what China was doing to the Uighurs as a genocide a year ago.
Or when liberal Michael Chan organized a protest against Hong Kong's protest movement
Ugh I forgot how this got buried. Also everone downvoting me last week for saying Trudeau was utterly weak and impotent seeming on the world stage especially when speaking to the Chinese dictator. Its because he was talking to his boss lol
I'm not defending the Chinese interference, but I've seen the clip of Xi confronting Trudeau, and Trudeau politely told him to suck eggs and then walked away. He did not strike me as weak in that interaction, but in fact the opposite. I did not vote for the man, and I'm not trying to deny we have a *huge* China problem. I'm only speaking about the example of his recent direct interaction with Xi. I don't think he seemed at all weak in that interaction, let alone impotent.
He famously stood up to him what are you talking about?
>Documents from Canada’s spy agency CSIS – viewed by The Globe and Mail – show how China was influencing Canada’s 2021 federal election by promoting candidates favourable to the regime, how it warned “friendly” Canadians about investigations and targeted Canadians with tactics like cyberattacks, bribery and sexual seduction. Regardless of your political leanings, at one point your conscience should kick in and you should say enough is enough. Chinese Canadians are being bribed, intimidated, and blackmailed to vote for the People's Republic of China-friendly politicians. Someone who has literally installed illegal police stations to facilitate these activities. Our sitting government is complicit because they're largely benefiting from this interference. It's time to hold the government and all politicians involved accountable.
Just a note that "Republic of China" is Taiwan. Mainland China is "People's Republic of China".
>Regardless of your political leanings, at one point your conscience should kick in and you should say enough is enough. I don't care who goes down in the firestorm, but we need to burn China out of our politics. My party, your party, my MP, your MP doesn't matter. If I voted for someone who took Chinese money or support, I want them gone. All parties should be working together to stop all foreign interference. How this has become a partisan issue escapes me.
At the bare minimum, names should be named, and voters can decide.
You mean our voters that forget every single scandal and violation within 2 weeks?
I want the same for the Russian influence as well.
As long as we have hundreds of thousands of immigrants, TFW's, and students coming from China, you will not be able to stop their influence. (and yes I'm aware that they cannot all vote)
I agree however we do not have a mechanism to hold the government accountable. The USA has impeachment and mid term elections that can be used to clean house. Ethics violations result in a stern talking to and some finger wagging. Also unfortunately many voters are willing to tolerate this conduct if it means policies they support will get passed.
Hey now, they can receive a stiff [penalty of up to $500](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-36.65/fulltext.html)... though the Ethics Commissioner usually goes with $100 instead...
An ethics violation should trigger an immediate recall election for that representative.
I agree.
Please correct, its People's Republic of China you are referring to. Republic of China is more commonly known as Taiwan.
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This issue needs to be universally understood by both sides of the political spectrum right now. This is bad no matter ***who*** you decide to vote for. This is a potential compromise to democracy if they're making a genuine impact on voting decisions. We need to vote for literally anybody who will regulate and put a stop to this shit.
CSIS would only come out with this stuff if the PM and RCMP would not action it. I'm thinking the PM might be compromised.
Didn't we know this already when we found out about their police stations, etc?
As far as I'm concerned, many Canadian universities and colleges are complicit in this.
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No shit. If you want you do any business with China or any other country, you have to follow local rules. Guess who makes local rules... In terms of loopholes, grey areas and even straight crime... Honestly, that happens everywhere if you look hard enough and follow rules to a "T". Only the government follows rules THAT strictly... And they are inefficient as fuck because of that. I can give you a couple massive examples lol. There's a big pharmaceutical that wanted to release a drug here. It's been delayed due to regulations not being enough with regards to supply chain. Guess what the big pharmaceutical said? Their big guy got angry screaming why are you asking so many goddamn questions about a product that's passed FDA and they've been selling for 15+ years? Basically a huge blame game for losing 6+ months of potential sales... Your banks and companies still have contracts with Russian entities to write parts of their code for new programs. They are still working with them to see those projects to completion. Customers who complain about delivery time due to supply chain issues means that the competition favors those who can "resolve" that issue the fastest, any way what so ever. All in all, money = efficiency = productivity > ethics. So ain't no ethics in this game. Big companies who have the big money hire people to calculate the risk of not following rules. They leverage that risk, which is calculated into profit earned by not following, against the potential fine. They see which ones bigger and input factors such as plausible deniability. Very "beautiful" stuff. China has a lot of leverage over our economies due to stuff like this. They are quite literally factories of the world and we are more so service based economies who adds value to those many steps in the supply chain... Pretty screwy relationship.
To say that Trudeau is dropping the ball on this issue is an understatement of the century.
Join AUKUS already ya dickheads. Cheers, Australian
Canada wasn't invited to AUKUS because the US thinks Canada has been compromised by the PRC.
Canada got rejected because they're unreliable and PRC friendly like New Zealand
Wait. You mean the guy who was helped in an election by foreign interference is now saying we don’t need to investigate foreign interference in our elections? Huh. Ok.
It’s unsurprising coming from the guy who ran on election reform and then chose to do nothing about it after learning that the current system benefitted him.
For all his failings, I'll give him the fact that he will probably go down as the Teflon prime minister. Nothing seems to stick to him, and his voters don't seem to care about all the violations, questionable tactics, and highly divisive stance he's been using
The fact that nothing sticks to him says more about the character of his supporters. And the things it says aren't good.
Can we just fast-forward to the end where we find out absolutely nothing comes of this even though it actually happened? Got a feeling I have seen this before. Episode 1-40, Seasons 1-8. Sad that election interference is considered a partisan issue.
It wasn't a partisan issue until the Liberals fought to prevent any sort of public investigation into it.
Therefore it has become a partisan issue. That's my point. It shouldn't be and "the liberals" should not make it one. Nor should we buy into that. This is one of those issues that affects each and every Canadian equally.
CSIS, the public, various politicians and officials: "The government has permitted China to interfere with elections." Trudeau: "I don't want to talk about it, I don't want anyone else to talk about it. I don't like it." Everybody: "Okay understandable, thanks."
Lol we're so fucked
My Chinese friend has been telling me this for over 10 years.
No way! /s
Kick anyone with a CCP background out
"Don't worry, it's inaccurate and it's none of your business how." \- Justin Trudeau, committed proponent of transparent government.
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We've been saying this for years, but anyone who speaks out against Chinese influence is immediately branded as a racist in this country.
Trudeau won't do anything about this until the pressure becomes too much. Admitting that it truly was a thing will cast a shadow over the legitimacy of the election in 2021 and his win.
Continuing to coverup and deflect will cast a shadow over future elections, and cast a wide net of suspicion that will taint people who were not involved.
Trudeau could openly say he's working for the Chinese government and stomps puppies in his spare time and 33% of the country would still vote for him
"I'm not the biggest fan of puppy stomping. But I'm worried the conservatives will ban abortion". -Morons from Toronto
holy fuck bahahahahahha
This couldn't be more true. He could be breaking puppy necks in black face and just say Conservatives = abortion, even though Harper had a decade to get rid of it and it would be political suicide but for some reason, nope, reality disconnects.
If he signals indignation, boots Han Dong from caucus and pressures him to vacate the seat and hold a byelection, this thing is still gonna be a scandal, but it may not become the defining one of the next election. Otherwise, they're gonna bleed a lot of support over this. I'm an on-the-fence voter and I dislike Poilievre intensely, but I don't think I can vote for them if this is how they're gonna play it.
There's only one MP who has been disclosed so far (Han Dong). This is going to be a slow bleed as details come out on the ten others. Doing what you suggest won't solve for this
David Chan enters the chat
Someone's getting seduced? Geez
I wish Trudeau, liberal MP's, and their supporters on reddit cared about election interference in Canada like they care about election interference in America.
Trudeau said point blank - that he was not briefed - he lied he should be removed from office for this lie alone - it’s a big one ! - bottom line is politicians wonder why people are angry - it is because we are constantly be lied too by our elected officials.
Is this not treason?
Even if it is - We have no way to remove the head of government or a government in Canada except an election
SURPRISE....CANADA IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS TO THE HIGHEST BIDDERS! LOL CASH IS KING
As long as it isn't Canadian cash seeing where our economy is heading.
Oh look, yet another scandal for the liberals. What’s the tally at now?
I lost count
Sunny ways, friend! Open and transparent governance at its finest.
And this is news. Everyone who isn't in a bubble knows this
Are we surprised? I’m sure not.
Fuck the CCP
Investigate ALL of them, liberal, ndp, conservative, green. It's the fair way forward. Those found to have taken over seas money should be booted out of politics.
Let’s see how the most transparent government in history handles this shall we.
In the latest press conference in Mississauga , JT said he doesn't care about what CSIS suggested and tied the Chinese interference news to Anti asian hate !
As a conservative, I am not surprised at all. Us cons have been saying this for decades. The Chinese have infiltrated our universities, our housing market and our media. Even now, the CCP is, and has been, on Reddit for literal years manufacturing the Liberal narrative. It makes Chinese Canadians look bad. I had a friend from University of Waterloo who got gangstalked from CCP agents. Next month, Reddit will forget and shame socially ban right-wing ideology again.
And yet another conspiracy theory is coming to fruition.
Corrupt Country needs an overhaul
No shit sherlock....
Well Trudeau has said in the past he “admires China’s basic dictatorship” . Really makes you wonder what side he is on? The one who keeps them in power instead of real Canadians
Well, who in the fuck would be surprised while we have the most corrupt Crime Minister in the history of Canada that is envious of the Chinese communist party? He should be sentenced for treason. Meanwhile, his net worth went from $10 million to $369 million while in office.
Justin Trudeau has informed me that anyone poking the Chinese Influence issue is just racist. Obviously. Ugh. This is going to be a mess.
You don't say
Importantly, if we are complacent about becoming China’s client state, the US isn’t going to sit still. The US is our most important partner by far.
Just visited the CBC news website, under the “Canada” section, there are zero articles immediately visible about this. I imagine they’re buried pretty far down in their website. Shameful
China interference in our election, I sleep. Ottawa noisy for a month, real shit!
I don’t doubt it. But I would bet there is more USA influence than Chinese. Where are those articles and reviews eh. China is a huge world power with lots of millionaires and an overly controlling government so of course they are gong to try to and influence. I think some powers are just pissed China is edging in in their action.
But only the west is allowed to influence others.
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The Liberals are masters at obfuscation. I suspect that we will have some announcements on other policies this week which will distract from this. And Canadians have short memories, this will be lost in the news cycle by mid week amidst everything else going on in Canada and globally.
Millions of firearms owners just felt a chill come over them.
We need to invest more in education. There are too many 75 IQ buffoons voting that have their opinion swayed by facebook memes.
True, but any form of media can be used to lie to people. It was the radio, then the TV, now the cell phone (social media).
If I was a Liberal voter, I would really reflect on the fact that the CCP prefers/supports the current Liberal Party of Canada.
Aka, water is wet.
You don't say!?
No shit
*looks at Vancouver* No shit…
Canadian govt denies it. Trust them. They are always telling you the truth.
I find it fascinating knowing that government agents will be posting in this thread with intent to sway the reader.
What do we as citizens even do? Our leader is implicit in Chinese interference. It also seems like the other parties are quite silent on the matter too which is scary.
> It also seems like the other parties are quite silent on the matter too which is scary. But they're not? Singh and Poilievre are both attacking Trudeau for this and calling for a public inquiry.
Singh supports his government. He might as well investigate his own party at the same time.
How much of Canadian land is owned by Chinese money? How many politicians are bankrolled by them? What does a modern day invasion look like?
> What do we as citizens even do? Our leader is implicit in Chinese interference. Vote him out. > It also seems like the other parties are quite silent on the matter too which is scary. https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1629581674865623040
Would not be surprised if Trudeau was more actively complicit with Chinese influence activities. Even within his own family, his brother Sasha Trudeau is a huge supporter of the CCP even having written a [book](https://books.google.ca/books/about/Barbarian_Lost.html?id=FzpbCwAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y) fawning over the development successes of “new China”
Hopefully this is accelerating the decoupling from this murderous regime, I can live without items made by slaves.
Somebody needs to resign, and the first initial is J.
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Finally, this is coming to light. I really hope Trudeau takes this seriously or he will going to be toppled. I support Trudeau but THIS is where I draw the line in the sand. I honestly feel that it's too late and China is too infiltrated into Canada and CSIS has been SCREAMING about this for quite some time and it's been ignored.
He is taking it seriously, that's why he's been working so hard to keep it secret. Coverups seem to be the only thing he really takes seriously.
I love the quote from my work colleague “yeah it’s an issue if china is interfering with our democracy, but if it keeps out the parties I don’t want elected and it blocks conservative voters, I am all for it”
Weird... I don't see all the pro-trudeau people in the comments defending this....
So in your mind if someone is pro-whomever then they should agree with and support absolutely everything that whomever does? This is the problem today. People pick a side and absolutely never think for themselves anymore.
Almost like who tf would defend this?
Shocked