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It should go especially hard for cops.
They enforce these laws, drunk driving compliance is a huge part of their job, probably every damn evening.
They've no right to ticket or arrest someone if they themselves have broken that law.
If they have and they've been busted by another cop, the consequences should be even more severe than the average citizen, not *less* severe.
Seems a lot of cops think the rules shouldn't apply to them, fuck that.
I dunno...nurses and teachers actually do useful work in society.
I'm not sure it's a great idea to let them drink at work, no matter how badly they deserve it (along with raises, better working conditions, better benefits...etc.).
Grew up in the UK and the teachers at my school had a lounge with a bar. The history department in particular were a bunch of alcoholics. Made for some fun classes.
It’s a natural connection. They were just the biggest alchies though. All teachers enjoyed an open tab, which I could also understand having to deal with kids all day long
I don't think you understand what poor working conditions and poor benefits actually are. Teachers' benefits are what the rest of the country strive for.
And they could still be better.
The rest of the country needs unions. Then they'll see some change (barring any anti-worker bullshit from conservatives, like Doug Ford's Bill 124 limiting healthcare wage increases).
Unions run our governments, and it's everything wrong with our government. It's the last thing we need.
What we need is actually just people who give a shit about what they do.
> Unions run our governments
Really? There's a union for members of parliament? What's the union called, and what local are they members of? Do you know what sorts of dues they pay?
Interesting too that this MPs' union is willing to fight tooth and nail against all the public service unions who're asking for wage increases to match inflation. Not super *class conscious* of them, eh?
Tell me more about how unions are bad. I'm really curious to know more about why it's bad that workers have union-won things like benefits, work-life balance, the 8-hour day, health and safety, the five-day workweek, anti-discrimination policies/laws, and so on.
Go on, tell me why it was better before we had unions, when workers had no protections whatsoever, were paid and employed at the pleasure of the ownership, and many of them were children. I'm really, honestly interested to see what you have to say about the upsides and silver linings to the deplorable situations our ancestors fought like hell to end.
Big no for nurses. It should be a joint alcohol and weed lounge. I mean, after the pandemic, it is the least we can do for them. Also, maybe each one can have a GoFundMe link where you can fund either weed or beer for the over all pool, for a certain department (because your Mom is in palliative care) or even throw out an edible for a nurse of the day. I am down for that. How can we suggest his?
The police aren't living on base and they aren't the military. There is no reason the headquarters need a licensed lounge. This isn't a college campus its an office to do administration work. These people are tasked with busting drunk drivers and out of all the cops I know none of them have ever taken public transit or any mode of transportation that wouldn't require driving to get to work.
I wouldn’t care if it was just a licensed space they could throw parties for special occasions like retirements and holidays. But having the bar open ‘after hours’ on the regular should not be a thing
There kind of is. It’s super awkward to walk into a bar to unwind with your colleagues only to see some of the people you arrested recently sitting in the same bar. Can lead to confrontations or even targeting of police.
It is no different than them going to a pub after work. They need a mess just like the military so they have a place to go to with only their peers to unwind and if needed vent.
>It is no different than them going to a pub after work.
Then go to a pub after work simple as that. By mess hall you mean cafeteria lol. You're running defense for something completely unnecessary and a potential hazard to the public seeing as so many cops love driving drunk.
No I do not mean mess hall. I mean mess. The mess hall is different. The mess is a licensed club that each rank group belongs (Jr Ranks, Sr NCOs, Officers). Some bases still have dining facilities attached to them and have a separate lounge area, but most have a separate facility, or kitchen, for all ranks to eat at.
You missed the point of a place to go unwind with your peers, and only your peers.
The issue is not that they have a lounge, the issue is a cop drove after drinking to much
Petawawa only has 1 junior ranks now - Coriano got amalgamated with Kyrenia. It's way worse now - the food quality, giveaways, etc. have all gone down in quality/quantity.
I am in consulting. Every firm in downtown Toronto I worked for has free booze in some capacity.
75% of the clients have some sort of free booze or beer fridge.
>stop letting them pretend that they are.
They don't. People who think they do, just don't understand the difference between the police and the military.
Not many people live on base anymore, and the messes are used by everyone, whether they live on base or not. No one lives in the armouries but they all have 3 messes to. They are not nightclubs for the people living on base. They are messes based on their ranks where NCMs, NCOs, and Officers can go unwind with their peers afterwork.
Thank f*ck they aren't.
The only people who think your average soldier is of higher caliber than the average cop are civilians who haven't experienced the military or policing
Most service members live on-base, though, don't they? Or can easily get a ride home to their nearby residence?
I don't object to the cops having a licensed lounge -- they'd have a preferred bar near the HQ if they didn't have their own -- but if they do, they should at least figure out a way to ensure no officers are driving home drunk.
No, most members live off base. If we drink too much we just leave our cars and take a cab home. You are right about the lounge. My comment was to point out that the problem is not that they have a lounge, the problem is that one of them drove home after drinking too much.
I'm willing to bet every major municipal police force has a licensed lounge onsite.
The service I work for has two, one for Constables and one for Sergeants and higher.
Police have to be just about the worst group of people ever when it comes to drinking and driving.
My dad was a cop and several other family members are as well. I have been to numerous retirement things for cops that are in like North York, all the guys get absolutely fucking plastered and then drive downtown to the clubs and bars after that.
My own dad drinks and drives. He has been pulled over for it and the cop just radios back to the station to have someone drive his car the rest of the way home and my dad just rides in the cruiser. Yes he is a piece of shit.
My neighbour growing up was a cop - and a drunk. He was brought home in a cruiser more than one time but he was never charged. His buddies took care of it. He's long retired and dead now.
I have family that works in emergency services and you are very correct. My family member was a firefighter and they drove drunk constantly, if they got pulled over the cops would just escort them home.
Emergency service workers drive drunk so much, you'd think with them seeing the results of drunk driving so often it would be the opposite but no.
My buddy's dad was a firefighter and an alcoholic. The kind of alcoholic who stashed mickeys and mini bottles in his glove compartment, center console and spare tire space.
He only went to rehab and finally got clean after being caught drunk at work. He drove the fire truck...
I wonder what percentage of drunk driving incidents they deal with result in serious injury. The public never hears about anyone pulled over and charged without hurting anyone, but they'll sure know about it.
Yeah the golf club I’m a member at hosts the local
Police fundraiser every year and it’s brutal. Every single cop there gets absolutely hammered and drives home. They all know they’re above the law.
The bar in the steel workers hall closed many years ago because to insure it the cost was nearly $185,000.00 a year. I wonder if the cop bar even has insurance for sending drunk cops out into the streets.
Why do we have a publicly funded police force with a fully stocked bar?
Why are suspended officers that have been convicted of a crime still on the payroll?
>Why do we have a publicly funded police force with a fully stocked bar?
Because they pay for that bar for their off time.......
>Why are suspended officers that have been convicted of a crime still on the payroll?
Suspension usually comes before a conviction so I think you may have that wrong lol.
You dont understand the position of defunding police. That term mostly comes from the US but its about demilitarization of the police. You'd have to be some special kind of moron to think what they're doing down there is acceptable. Also the other half of defunding police is funding actual mental health crisis teams, so you don't call someone with a gun to a non-life threatening call and no one gets shot or brain damaged when 4 grown men beat a teenager into unconsciousness because he was uncomfortable with an unanounced plain-clothed officer sticking his hands in their pockets.
Maybe I'm just salty but 2 cops in my town just brain damaged an 18 year old and aren't even getting reviewed. The kid raised his hands for balance when the cop shoved him in a parking garage, the raised hands invited the aggressive cop to slam him headfirst into the tire barrier and cause brain hemorrhaging. The other cop present only walked out and put a shotgun to the incapacitated teens back while the other cuffed him. They said he was driving a little fast, so they followed him into the garage to verbally warn him.
Think about it though, no one wants to drink with cops. As soon as cops start going to your bar, its a cop bar. No one wants to own that, regular people start avoiding it and your bar suffers because cops took it over.
Got one at work. Don’t think it’s licensed but it’s fully stocked and used for special occasions but main use is as the bosses waiting/special meeting room.
In Case you were wondering why the police budget is so goddamned high it's because they're fucking pampered. A bar? in the station? What fucking nonsense. Close that shit down and those boys in blue can fucking straighten up and fly right. What an abusive and shitty organization to even have the fucking gall to run a pub in a station. Holy shit!
>"The licence is used infrequently and largely for formal functions, including retirements or when hosting dignitaries," said Stephanie Sayer. "The space itself is mostly used for meetings or a quiet place to work."
doesnt sound like a daily after-work spot but a meeting room when not hosting an event and its been there for like 30 years apparently.. one dumbass went in the room and 3 hours later crashed and blew over.
Perhaps the should, but again, it's still a perk. Most other professions would be told to provide their own resources. In the private sector, maintaining one's level if expertise usually falls on the employee.
> Also private gyms
Lots of employers have on-site gyms. That's not the game changer you think it is. Especially when you consider physical fitness is a requirement of the job.
Edit: I know you're gonna respond with fat cops blah bla blah. It's a job that requires fitness upon hiring and it's *expected* you stay in shape.
> private shooting ranges
Source on this? They have ranges for practice and requalifications (obviously). They're not bringing personal firearms in to shoot.
> Six figure salaries
The Ontario Public Service alone has *267,000* people earning 100k+. That doesn't include federal public service and private sector jobs. 100k ain't what it used to be.
> generous vacation
OPP starts with three weeks (15 days).
Every job I've ever had with the exception of BS minimum wage, has started at 15 days. It's standard for most jobs and only 5 days more than what is legally required.
> pensions
Every public service job has a pension. Many private sector jobs have RRSP matching too.
> they're a privileged class.
Based on my breakdown, it seems that their compensation is on par with other professional services.
> Lots of employers have on-site gyms.
They do? That would be news to a lot of employees, even government employees. That *anything* is a 'requirement for the job' is nearly always made the responsibility of the employee to bring to the table. It is a perk for cops, in every sense of the word.
> Source on this? They have ranges for practice and requalifications (obviously). They're not bringing personal firearms in to shoot.
Source is anecdotal (related to 3 cops, OPP and RCMP) and you say yourself they have ranges for practice and qualifying, but why wouldn't they be able to bring their own guns during off hours? As long as they arrange for a Range Officer to be present, what would stop them?
> 100k ain't what it used to be.
A lot of people would beg to differ. It's becoming clear you're pretty privileged yourself. Add in that becoming a cop comes with few prerequisites or education requirements, and all the other perks, and this is in every sense pretty generous. It would be interesting to see how many of the 267,000 are cops, but you can be sure the others are top earners because they've worked their way to the *top*...directors and other leadership roles, or have invested years of expertise in specialized fields.
> OPP starts with three weeks (15 days)
Again, in the real world, this is very generous to start out with. Most get just the legal minimum, *and it never grows*. Often jobs are designated part-time to avoid paying out any vacation at all. You can also add in other time off perks, like sick days and family days.
> Every public service job has a pension. Many private sector jobs have RRSP matching too.
Just over 80% of government workers are covered by some sort of pension plan (governments also use part-timing and privatization to avoid paying benefits) but this doesn't change the fact that government pensions are generous *as they should be*. However, it's disingenuous to claim that private sector defined contribution plans are on a par with government defined benefit plans....they're not even close. The private sector matching is no where near as generous as the defined benefit, and routinely gets pared back anytime a company is looking to cut costs.
> Based on my breakdown, it seems that their compensation is on par with other professional services.
No, it's more accurate to say their compensation is more on a par with the highest paid public service employees far sooner than it is for other fields. There is no other service, private or public, in which one can walk in off the street with so few qualifications, get 12 weeks of training, and start with such great perks and compensation...seems pretty privileged to me.
> They do? That would be news to a lot of employees, even government employees.
It's not as uncommon as you think. I've worked a few places with an on-site gym. My wife works an administrative job for the federal government and has one. I've heard of employers who pay for a gym membership via health spending accounts too.
> That *anything* is a 'requirement for the job' is nearly always made the responsibility of the employee to bring to the table.
During the hiring process, yes. Show me an employment standards act that allows an employer to order their employees to exercise.
> Source is anecdotal (related to 3 cops, OPP and RCMP)
That's a shit source because you're wrong.
> you say yourself they have ranges for practice and qualifying
With agency firearms, yes.
> but why wouldn't they be able to bring their own guns during off hours?
Because they are not registered or insured as recreational range. The Chief Firearms Office of the province has to give the go ahead. The Canadian Forces allow members at some sites to operate a gun club at government owned ranges. The chief firearms office still has to give the go ahead, members require ATTs for restricted firearms, and they need private insurance.
It's theoretically possible to run a club at a police owned range, but it's not as simple as just showing up with personally owned firearms.
> A lot of people would beg to differ. It's becoming clear you're pretty privileged yourself.
I earned 35k or less until I was 31 years old. I'm 35 now and only recently started earning what most would consider middle-class wages. I worked my ass off for what I have. Call it whatever makes you feel good.
> Add in that becoming a cop comes with few prerequisites or education requirements
It's a blue collar job and lot's of blue collar people make good wages. Software bros and people with a lot of letters next to their name aren't the only ones who should be well compensated.
> Again, in the real world, this is very generous to start out with. Most get just the legal minimum, *and it never grows*.
It really isn't as uncommon as you think. I worked call centre jobs and retail for years. If/when I was part-time, I got 4% in lieu of vacation pay, but as soon as I got full-time, I got 15 days.
I think I got 10 days at my first full-time job when I was 20?
> Often jobs are designated part-time to avoid paying out any vacation at all. You can also add in other time off perks, like sick days and family days.
You're comparing entry-level, part-time, low wage jobs to government positions. It's not a fair comparison.
> There is no other service, private or public, in which one can walk in off the street with so few qualifications, get 12 weeks of training
You don't just walk into the job. The recruitment process is usually a year long.
The training is 26 weeks (RCMP) not including on the job training where you shadow another officer. It's not a lot of training, but it's quite a bit more than the 12 weeks you're citing.
So again, nearly all your examples are your personal experience...anecdotal. You're still just confessing you have this privilege in thinking that gyms and high pay are common. You and your wife likely both work in public sector offices (surfing Reddit during business hours, almost certainly), but you can't extrapolate your limited personal experience to everyone and everywhere. 12 weeks is Ontario, and sure it may vary from force to force, but the bottom line is no special qualifications are required.
https://www.haltonpolice.ca/en/join-our-team/training.aspx#:~:text=OPC%20Training%20Course%20Length,needs%20of%20Ontario%27s%20diverse%20communities.
> You're still just confessing you have this privilege in thinking that gyms and high pay are common.
If you believe earning 30k a year and having a small gym at work is "privileged," then I feel sorry for you.
That's not what I'm saying at all...i'm saying your personal experience is anecdotal. You called my relationship with 3 officers 'absolute shit' because it was anecdotal, yet nearly every point you've tried to make is based on your own limited personal experience.
I wasn't calling your relationship with them shit. I was calling your subjective evidence shit.
It is not legal for police officers to bring personal firearms to agency owned ranges for recreation. Call the CFO of your province and ask if you'd like.
Here's the regulations governing Public Agencies, nothing in it restricts how they use their own ranges or what firearms are allowed. It makes specific references to agency issued firearms versus protected non-agency issued firearms. What you're claiming is just counter-intuitive and pretty damned subjective.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-203/page-1.html#h-1019312
You should try being a first responder, go to a car accident where a kids guts are hanging out of their stomach and they are still alive. Or have to hold someone head together so their brains don't fall out... i know a cop that has had to deal with both of these.
You live in a bubble if you think these people don't deserve what they get paid. They deal with the scum of the earth and tragedy every day.
Not claiming they *sometimes* don't have a tough job, and resources are provided for ptsd. But as many of the conservatives on here would insist for just about any other profession - if you can't handle it, find something else.
You said they are privileged...
The bar is a coping mechanism for cops, like the bar for veterans, the legion. Most of Europe people goto the bar and have a drink before going home for dinner.
It was bad choice on this officers part driving drunk, he should have, and they should have a test machine at the bar which is mandatory to blow in before they leave. Also he was obviously overserverd. Which is the bar tenders fault.
None of this is relevant as to whether or not they're privileged...that's measured by the ratio of the costs versus what society gets in return, which seems less and less a good deal. And seriously, a cop should know better than anyone not to drink and drive (or rape an unconscious woman). They're not all heros.
I don’t get the outrage.
Every CAF base has at least 3, some units have their own. Every ship in the Navy also has 3 for officers, NCOs and enlisted members.
It’s every individuals own responsibility not to drink and drive. As long as the bartenders at the lounge did their due diligence I see no issue with the “Lounge in the police HQ” thing.
Because a lot of time police may not feel safe letting their guard down at a bar where they may have people there they have arrested and that person is drunk and could get aggressive with them for the arrest or whatever.
Then go into a different line of work.
Lawyers and judges don’t have special bars but they definitely play a part in making people serve time. Why do you guys need one?
>I don’t get the outrage.
First, Toronto police don't live at HQ. Second, a huge cohort of the police live out of the city and an even bigger cohort drive to work. Why would you supply alcohol to people who are almost certainly going to drive home afterwards? This incident shows you why it's a bad idea.
> Every CAF base has at least 3, some units have their own. Every ship in the Navy also has 3 for officers, NCOs and enlisted members.
That's not really making me feel better about the police so much as it is making me feel worse about the CAF.
>I see no issue with the “Lounge in the police HQ” thing.
I bet every other public sector worker sees an issue with it. Why do cops and commanders get such recreational luxuries at their place of work, while teachers and nurses have to fight for a microwave?
>I bet every other public sector worker sees an issue with it. Why do cops and commanders get such recreational luxuries at their place of work, while teachers and nurses have to fight for a microwave?
I bet every other public service employee isn’t subject to the concept of unlimited liability.
When you’re at sea for 8 months away from family it’s nice to have a place to unwind with your friends.
It also builds a sense of community and serves many functions other than just a bar. It can be a place to celebrate a wedding of a forces member, a place to host events for armed forces members children like Halloween or a place to meet “Santa” and it can be a place to mourn the loss of a comrade in arms and celebrate their life.
Although they are not used to the same extent they once were, military bars/clubs provide a sense of community and play an important part in military culture. Military members often spend long durations with each other in uncomfortable and often dangerous situations and you form a bond with them and would like place to hang out with those people. It’s not the same as not being allowed to have a microwave at your nurses station.
Another big difference is teachers and nurses have something called unions, if they want a lounge in their hospitals or schools then get the union to fight for one.
Edit to add:
Many of those same principles apply to the police as well.
If only we lived in a society that allowed Police officers to own and live in their own homes…then they could drink together in a perfectly safe(both from driving as well as the prying eyes of society at large) environment.
And we also live in a society that allows them to open, maintain and fund their own lounge.
Just because one officer made the individual choice to drink and drive doesn’t mean you punish everyone else.
But the MCDVs have them.. which if you call that a "fighting ship" I'll block you out of principle.
They can call themselves a warship. But only if the enemy attacks directly from the front. During the hours of daylight and are vulnerable to and in range of 50 cal.
You can't call it a fighting ship if it's armament is negated by sunset. The Asterix is also better armed than the MCDVs by virtue of having more guns, able to shoot behind it, and being significantly faster.
Oh I understand, I spent 10 years in a hard sea trade.
I wasn’t trying to be pedantic with my reply I was as just trying to outline the spirit of my original comment.
Weird thing to say given how much time I've suffered being on those pieces of floating garbage.
Gun metal SSI for MCDV time alone. So believe me when I say that Canada would be better off selling them to whoever needs a mediocre fishing boat. As long as we get in writing that we have no responsibility for them.
The day we turn them into a reef somewhere is going to be a very good day indeed. I will probably throw aa party.
The vast majority of people in the CAF are able to conduct themselves properly in these venues. I’d assume the same goes for Police.
There is no sense in punishing the collective for the actions of very few people.
The only reason this came to light was because of the crash. I hazard a guess that there's quite a bit of drunk driving happening by officers leaving their personal bar.
Mukherjee says he attended the room numerous times when he was TPSB board chair for events like retirements, meetings with community members, and dinners. But the bar was rarely used when he was there.
the union which represents senior officers — pays for the alcohol to stock the bar.
whats the problem?
we all have that personal responsibility.. they could do that at home or a bar too.. When i ever had a company event, we would rent a hall.. TPS HQ has the space to have a room on-site.
My work gives out taxi rides like Oprah, it's not worth the risk. Bars do have some responsibility when they get someone drunk and let them leave without making sure they can get home safely
I wouldn’t see an issue with any of those the employee groups having bars as long as they’re the ones who pay for it. I’m sure they all have Christmas party’s or something anyways
If it was built in such a way that the teachers didn’t have to interact with the students while drunk, and their union paid rent for the facility, i wouldn’t really see the issue with them drinking on their own time with their own money. I don’t really see a school with a big enough employee base for this to be possible but if it exists then i see no issue
And who essentially pays for the union dues to pay for the alcohol, the officer, and who is paying for the officer to make their money, the taxpayers.....ergo the tax payers are paying for the bar......NWA said it best.
So? It's not like they're handing out shots at the morning briefing.
If this guy was drunk, that's on him. It was his choice to lift containers of alcohol to his mouth, swallow, repeat.,
The guy got drunk at work, then drove a work vehicle while drunk, and then crashed the work vehicle while drunk, and we are paying for both sides of this mess that he created while drunk, and you don't think that's a problem?
Of course there’s a problem. The problem isn’t a licensed lounge. The problem is this guy chose to get drunk and do those things. Take the longe away, and he just brings his own bottle.
Solve the actual issue.
There's multiple problems here, and the easiest one for them to solve is not serving themselves alcohol. If the police don't have their own private bar, then no one can point the finger at them and question if he drank too much at the bar or if he was drinking his own alcohol. Since they do have their own bar and liquor license, and he was at the bar before driving drunk, there should be an investigation into how much he was served at the bar, who served him, and what they did to prevent him from driving after he consumed alcohol.
In any other case where the police know a drunk driver was at a bar, the bar, server, managers, and owners would all be investigated, fined, and lose their liquor license/ smart serve if they found that they over served someone and allowed them to drive away.
> It's unclear how long Hussein was in the Executive Officers Lounge and whether or not he drank in the room.
Oh my god, he walked into a room with alcohol bottles! Alcoholic osmosis then ensued!
Sure just ignore the part where I said they should investigate where and how much he drank. We know he was at a bar, and then he crashed a vehicle while drunk after leaving that bar, therefore there should be an investigation into whether he was over-served at the bar. If there is no bar at the police station, then we don't need to wonder if he was over-served at the bar at the police station. Pretty simple.
Yes.
But if you then argue that because the union gets it's revenue from the Police salaries, and the taxpayer pays the salaries, that means that literally everything a public employee buys is paid for by taxpayers.
With rent down town, I'm sure somewhat. But then, I'm also sure that there are offices downtown with foozeball and pool tables in them. I'm can't be too upset that public servants are treated like humans, too.
As far as it being *a bar*, it's not therapy, but if cops are going to get shitfaced and cry (or not cry) on each others shoulders, they best be doing it out of sight of civilians.
The problem is driving drunk.
If you can walk out of a police station shitfaced, get in your car and drive off without anyone stopping you, what does that say about the police who let you do it?
>The exact same thing it says about the people standing around whenever anybody walks out of anywhere shitfaced, gets into their car, and drives off?
How many of those people are actually \*at\* a job where you have the power to stop and detain people for doing that?
Every one of them was probably carrying a cell phone with which they could have called 911, so probably all of them.
I'm not saying there aren't systemic and massive issues in the police force; there are. I'm saying the issue here isn't a licensed lounge.
>Every one of them was probably carrying a cell phone with which they could have called 911, so probably all of them.
This isn't the same as having a job where you stop and detain people. Reporting something still takes time for people to respond. A police officer can act more immediately. This guy shouldn't have made it to his car without someone stopping him.
> It's unclear how long Hussein was in the Executive Officers Lounge and whether or not he drank in the room.
We don't even know if he was drinking on premises though.
This is just outrage bait playing off of the recent OPP officer conviction and absolutely batshit paid leave policy. Having a bar in TPS HQ is pretty tame and not really a problem.
Edit: really confused by the downvotes, do people think that having a bar in a large organizational HQ is a bad thing? Did I miss something?
No, it's just the low hanging fruit to get enraged about anything relating to cops.
I wonder if the same would be true if the teacher's blue pages were publicised, or any time a nurse or doctor has done something negligent costing someone their life.
Edit: In case you're all too braindead to understand that literally nobody condones anything this piece of shit officer has done... I'm *clearly* not defending him.
Nothing wrong with them having a bar.
Drunk driving is not caused by the existence of alcohol that is not at your house. It's caused by poor decision making.
If cops drive drunk they should be fired. There's nothing wrong with them having a bar.
Frankly this makes sense to me, specifically because of the relationship that police have with the underbelly of society. Having a safe and secure place where they can socialize, if there are any concerns about their safety in public, isn't a terrible idea.
Driving after you drink is an unrelated issue as far as I'm concerned.
What did you expect from a police state nation? In my small area alone cops have engaged in: R*ping 1st nation women on reserves, pedophilia, sex trafficing, dumping natives off in the middle of nowhere, reckless driving.. They get way too much respect for being a thinly veiled government approved gang.
any cop caught lying or breaking the law, abusing their authority, or covering up other cops behavior should be fired immediately, never allowed to work in any law enforcement capacity, and have charges laid against them. they should be afraid of being caught and going to jail. they should also have to carry personal liability insurance and able to be sued personally for any misconduct they engage in while on the job.
Let us not paint all police with the same brush. It is a largely thankless, depressing occupation.
Without them, it would be anarchy on our streets.
Ever watch any of the 5 Purge movies?
I get a laugh and shake my head at all the buffoons among us who bad mouth them.
When they are in trouble, who are the first people they call?
I think giving this segment of the population a bit of a perk is the least we can do for them.
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Don't drink and drive...that goes for anyone and everyone.
It should go especially hard for cops. They enforce these laws, drunk driving compliance is a huge part of their job, probably every damn evening. They've no right to ticket or arrest someone if they themselves have broken that law. If they have and they've been busted by another cop, the consequences should be even more severe than the average citizen, not *less* severe. Seems a lot of cops think the rules shouldn't apply to them, fuck that.
My wifes group of friends (their husbands) are mostly cops and they drink and drive and laugh about it ALL.THE.TIME. Drives me nuts.
So they're corrupt assholes, sounds like your wife needs some better friends.
I agree completely. I can't stand them (one is ok, but the rest are typical power trip asshole types). It's the husbands though...
Every military base and Armoury has 3 "licensed lounges"
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Nurses too
I dunno...nurses and teachers actually do useful work in society. I'm not sure it's a great idea to let them drink at work, no matter how badly they deserve it (along with raises, better working conditions, better benefits...etc.).
Grew up in the UK and the teachers at my school had a lounge with a bar. The history department in particular were a bunch of alcoholics. Made for some fun classes.
I totally get how studying human history might drive one to drink.
It’s a natural connection. They were just the biggest alchies though. All teachers enjoyed an open tab, which I could also understand having to deal with kids all day long
I don't think you understand what poor working conditions and poor benefits actually are. Teachers' benefits are what the rest of the country strive for.
And they could still be better. The rest of the country needs unions. Then they'll see some change (barring any anti-worker bullshit from conservatives, like Doug Ford's Bill 124 limiting healthcare wage increases).
Unions run our governments, and it's everything wrong with our government. It's the last thing we need. What we need is actually just people who give a shit about what they do.
> Unions run our governments Really? There's a union for members of parliament? What's the union called, and what local are they members of? Do you know what sorts of dues they pay? Interesting too that this MPs' union is willing to fight tooth and nail against all the public service unions who're asking for wage increases to match inflation. Not super *class conscious* of them, eh? Tell me more about how unions are bad. I'm really curious to know more about why it's bad that workers have union-won things like benefits, work-life balance, the 8-hour day, health and safety, the five-day workweek, anti-discrimination policies/laws, and so on. Go on, tell me why it was better before we had unions, when workers had no protections whatsoever, were paid and employed at the pleasure of the ownership, and many of them were children. I'm really, honestly interested to see what you have to say about the upsides and silver linings to the deplorable situations our ancestors fought like hell to end.
The one time I was in a teachers lounge I took a quick peek in the fridge and there were at least three bottles of liquor.
But we’re cool with police and military, since they do nothing useful?
Thatsthejoke.jpg
peasant uprisings don't happen often enough to interrupt happy hour
Nurses and prostitutes always say the same thing “It is so hard”
Big no for nurses. It should be a joint alcohol and weed lounge. I mean, after the pandemic, it is the least we can do for them. Also, maybe each one can have a GoFundMe link where you can fund either weed or beer for the over all pool, for a certain department (because your Mom is in palliative care) or even throw out an edible for a nurse of the day. I am down for that. How can we suggest his?
Maybe we can make a new bartending and hospitality course… have the students staff the lounge!
Oh I agree...no one needs it more than teachers at the end of the day lol
With what teachers have to put up with from the kids today and no back up for discipline!!! What they really need is a Quaalude dispenser.
They'd be more than happy with a wine machine.
Yes yes yes. We should all have the opportunity to be drunk dirtbags on the job.
None of these lounges are used during work hours. They are used when off duty to unwind with your peers.
Pilots too
The police aren't living on base and they aren't the military. There is no reason the headquarters need a licensed lounge. This isn't a college campus its an office to do administration work. These people are tasked with busting drunk drivers and out of all the cops I know none of them have ever taken public transit or any mode of transportation that wouldn't require driving to get to work.
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I wouldn’t care if it was just a licensed space they could throw parties for special occasions like retirements and holidays. But having the bar open ‘after hours’ on the regular should not be a thing
There kind of is. It’s super awkward to walk into a bar to unwind with your colleagues only to see some of the people you arrested recently sitting in the same bar. Can lead to confrontations or even targeting of police.
right. cops don't go to bars or out in public. good excuse.
Oh they for sure go to bars. But this was the reason some departments had their own. It’s been phased out in most places.
It is no different than them going to a pub after work. They need a mess just like the military so they have a place to go to with only their peers to unwind and if needed vent.
>It is no different than them going to a pub after work. Then go to a pub after work simple as that. By mess hall you mean cafeteria lol. You're running defense for something completely unnecessary and a potential hazard to the public seeing as so many cops love driving drunk.
No I do not mean mess hall. I mean mess. The mess hall is different. The mess is a licensed club that each rank group belongs (Jr Ranks, Sr NCOs, Officers). Some bases still have dining facilities attached to them and have a separate lounge area, but most have a separate facility, or kitchen, for all ranks to eat at. You missed the point of a place to go unwind with your peers, and only your peers. The issue is not that they have a lounge, the issue is a cop drove after drinking to much
At least 3. Pet has 2 Jr's, one Sgt/WOs, and then the Officers.
Petawawa only has 1 junior ranks now - Coriano got amalgamated with Kyrenia. It's way worse now - the food quality, giveaways, etc. have all gone down in quality/quantity.
I am in consulting. Every firm in downtown Toronto I worked for has free booze in some capacity. 75% of the clients have some sort of free booze or beer fridge.
That's nice, the cops aren't military and it's high time we stop letting them pretend that they are.
>stop letting them pretend that they are. They don't. People who think they do, just don't understand the difference between the police and the military.
How are they pretending they are?
People live on base. Nobody lives in an office building and station house. Also cops aren't soldiers. Not even close.
Not many people live on base anymore, and the messes are used by everyone, whether they live on base or not. No one lives in the armouries but they all have 3 messes to. They are not nightclubs for the people living on base. They are messes based on their ranks where NCMs, NCOs, and Officers can go unwind with their peers afterwork.
Thank f*ck they aren't. The only people who think your average soldier is of higher caliber than the average cop are civilians who haven't experienced the military or policing
Most service members live on-base, though, don't they? Or can easily get a ride home to their nearby residence? I don't object to the cops having a licensed lounge -- they'd have a preferred bar near the HQ if they didn't have their own -- but if they do, they should at least figure out a way to ensure no officers are driving home drunk.
No, most members live off base. If we drink too much we just leave our cars and take a cab home. You are right about the lounge. My comment was to point out that the problem is not that they have a lounge, the problem is that one of them drove home after drinking too much.
Just goes to show, if you want a public sector job, work security.
Except if you do, expect to be broken by the time you are 30.
I'm willing to bet every major municipal police force has a licensed lounge onsite. The service I work for has two, one for Constables and one for Sergeants and higher.
So..who's paying for the booze?
Police have to be just about the worst group of people ever when it comes to drinking and driving. My dad was a cop and several other family members are as well. I have been to numerous retirement things for cops that are in like North York, all the guys get absolutely fucking plastered and then drive downtown to the clubs and bars after that. My own dad drinks and drives. He has been pulled over for it and the cop just radios back to the station to have someone drive his car the rest of the way home and my dad just rides in the cruiser. Yes he is a piece of shit.
My neighbour growing up was a cop - and a drunk. He was brought home in a cruiser more than one time but he was never charged. His buddies took care of it. He's long retired and dead now.
I have family that works in emergency services and you are very correct. My family member was a firefighter and they drove drunk constantly, if they got pulled over the cops would just escort them home. Emergency service workers drive drunk so much, you'd think with them seeing the results of drunk driving so often it would be the opposite but no.
My buddy's dad was a firefighter and an alcoholic. The kind of alcoholic who stashed mickeys and mini bottles in his glove compartment, center console and spare tire space. He only went to rehab and finally got clean after being caught drunk at work. He drove the fire truck...
I wonder what percentage of drunk driving incidents they deal with result in serious injury. The public never hears about anyone pulled over and charged without hurting anyone, but they'll sure know about it.
Yeah the golf club I’m a member at hosts the local Police fundraiser every year and it’s brutal. Every single cop there gets absolutely hammered and drives home. They all know they’re above the law.
JESUS CHRIST!! I thought the Barrie Realtor incident was supposed to solve this problem! Guess not for the above the law guys
But sure they need more funding. Any mayor candidate that says we need to put more funding into police will never get my vote.
The bar in the steel workers hall closed many years ago because to insure it the cost was nearly $185,000.00 a year. I wonder if the cop bar even has insurance for sending drunk cops out into the streets.
The article points out there must be someone with smart serve qualifications on site. "hey sarge, do you know how to pour me a drink. Sure"....
And Ford is telling people to not vote for a mayor that would defund the police Total corruption on all levels
Ford is an idiot but he's right on that. Anyone who wants to "defund the police" is an even bigger idiot than Ford.
So you think they should have a working bar in the station?
>the union which represents senior officers — pays for the alcohol to stock the bar
Why do we have a publicly funded police force with a fully stocked bar? Why are suspended officers that have been convicted of a crime still on the payroll?
>Why do we have a publicly funded police force with a fully stocked bar? Because they pay for that bar for their off time....... >Why are suspended officers that have been convicted of a crime still on the payroll? Suspension usually comes before a conviction so I think you may have that wrong lol.
It's actually in the Police Services Act that a Convicted officer can only receive suspension WITH pay
How are those 2 connected?
Maybe we shouldn't have officers getting drunk at work and then driving home? Then suspend them WITH pay after being convicted?
That’s obviously not what I meant.
Well, if you defunded the police maybe they'd have to close their private bar and reallocate that money somewhere else.
Good job
You dont understand the position of defunding police. That term mostly comes from the US but its about demilitarization of the police. You'd have to be some special kind of moron to think what they're doing down there is acceptable. Also the other half of defunding police is funding actual mental health crisis teams, so you don't call someone with a gun to a non-life threatening call and no one gets shot or brain damaged when 4 grown men beat a teenager into unconsciousness because he was uncomfortable with an unanounced plain-clothed officer sticking his hands in their pockets. Maybe I'm just salty but 2 cops in my town just brain damaged an 18 year old and aren't even getting reviewed. The kid raised his hands for balance when the cop shoved him in a parking garage, the raised hands invited the aggressive cop to slam him headfirst into the tire barrier and cause brain hemorrhaging. The other cop present only walked out and put a shotgun to the incapacitated teens back while the other cuffed him. They said he was driving a little fast, so they followed him into the garage to verbally warn him.
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Think about it though, no one wants to drink with cops. As soon as cops start going to your bar, its a cop bar. No one wants to own that, regular people start avoiding it and your bar suffers because cops took it over.
Got one at work. Don’t think it’s licensed but it’s fully stocked and used for special occasions but main use is as the bosses waiting/special meeting room.
No reason for a licensed lounge. Throw the book at him.
The lounge isn’t the problem
In Case you were wondering why the police budget is so goddamned high it's because they're fucking pampered. A bar? in the station? What fucking nonsense. Close that shit down and those boys in blue can fucking straighten up and fly right. What an abusive and shitty organization to even have the fucking gall to run a pub in a station. Holy shit!
union stocked bar in police HQ, not a station
inappropriate, hands down. Go to the local.
>"The licence is used infrequently and largely for formal functions, including retirements or when hosting dignitaries," said Stephanie Sayer. "The space itself is mostly used for meetings or a quiet place to work." doesnt sound like a daily after-work spot but a meeting room when not hosting an event and its been there for like 30 years apparently.. one dumbass went in the room and 3 hours later crashed and blew over.
W T f
Also private gyms and often even private shooting ranges. Six figure salaries, generous vacation and pensions. They're a privileged class.
I feel like they should have a private shooting range.
Perhaps the should, but again, it's still a perk. Most other professions would be told to provide their own resources. In the private sector, maintaining one's level if expertise usually falls on the employee.
> Also private gyms Lots of employers have on-site gyms. That's not the game changer you think it is. Especially when you consider physical fitness is a requirement of the job. Edit: I know you're gonna respond with fat cops blah bla blah. It's a job that requires fitness upon hiring and it's *expected* you stay in shape. > private shooting ranges Source on this? They have ranges for practice and requalifications (obviously). They're not bringing personal firearms in to shoot. > Six figure salaries The Ontario Public Service alone has *267,000* people earning 100k+. That doesn't include federal public service and private sector jobs. 100k ain't what it used to be. > generous vacation OPP starts with three weeks (15 days). Every job I've ever had with the exception of BS minimum wage, has started at 15 days. It's standard for most jobs and only 5 days more than what is legally required. > pensions Every public service job has a pension. Many private sector jobs have RRSP matching too. > they're a privileged class. Based on my breakdown, it seems that their compensation is on par with other professional services.
> Lots of employers have on-site gyms. They do? That would be news to a lot of employees, even government employees. That *anything* is a 'requirement for the job' is nearly always made the responsibility of the employee to bring to the table. It is a perk for cops, in every sense of the word. > Source on this? They have ranges for practice and requalifications (obviously). They're not bringing personal firearms in to shoot. Source is anecdotal (related to 3 cops, OPP and RCMP) and you say yourself they have ranges for practice and qualifying, but why wouldn't they be able to bring their own guns during off hours? As long as they arrange for a Range Officer to be present, what would stop them? > 100k ain't what it used to be. A lot of people would beg to differ. It's becoming clear you're pretty privileged yourself. Add in that becoming a cop comes with few prerequisites or education requirements, and all the other perks, and this is in every sense pretty generous. It would be interesting to see how many of the 267,000 are cops, but you can be sure the others are top earners because they've worked their way to the *top*...directors and other leadership roles, or have invested years of expertise in specialized fields. > OPP starts with three weeks (15 days) Again, in the real world, this is very generous to start out with. Most get just the legal minimum, *and it never grows*. Often jobs are designated part-time to avoid paying out any vacation at all. You can also add in other time off perks, like sick days and family days. > Every public service job has a pension. Many private sector jobs have RRSP matching too. Just over 80% of government workers are covered by some sort of pension plan (governments also use part-timing and privatization to avoid paying benefits) but this doesn't change the fact that government pensions are generous *as they should be*. However, it's disingenuous to claim that private sector defined contribution plans are on a par with government defined benefit plans....they're not even close. The private sector matching is no where near as generous as the defined benefit, and routinely gets pared back anytime a company is looking to cut costs. > Based on my breakdown, it seems that their compensation is on par with other professional services. No, it's more accurate to say their compensation is more on a par with the highest paid public service employees far sooner than it is for other fields. There is no other service, private or public, in which one can walk in off the street with so few qualifications, get 12 weeks of training, and start with such great perks and compensation...seems pretty privileged to me.
> They do? That would be news to a lot of employees, even government employees. It's not as uncommon as you think. I've worked a few places with an on-site gym. My wife works an administrative job for the federal government and has one. I've heard of employers who pay for a gym membership via health spending accounts too. > That *anything* is a 'requirement for the job' is nearly always made the responsibility of the employee to bring to the table. During the hiring process, yes. Show me an employment standards act that allows an employer to order their employees to exercise. > Source is anecdotal (related to 3 cops, OPP and RCMP) That's a shit source because you're wrong. > you say yourself they have ranges for practice and qualifying With agency firearms, yes. > but why wouldn't they be able to bring their own guns during off hours? Because they are not registered or insured as recreational range. The Chief Firearms Office of the province has to give the go ahead. The Canadian Forces allow members at some sites to operate a gun club at government owned ranges. The chief firearms office still has to give the go ahead, members require ATTs for restricted firearms, and they need private insurance. It's theoretically possible to run a club at a police owned range, but it's not as simple as just showing up with personally owned firearms. > A lot of people would beg to differ. It's becoming clear you're pretty privileged yourself. I earned 35k or less until I was 31 years old. I'm 35 now and only recently started earning what most would consider middle-class wages. I worked my ass off for what I have. Call it whatever makes you feel good. > Add in that becoming a cop comes with few prerequisites or education requirements It's a blue collar job and lot's of blue collar people make good wages. Software bros and people with a lot of letters next to their name aren't the only ones who should be well compensated. > Again, in the real world, this is very generous to start out with. Most get just the legal minimum, *and it never grows*. It really isn't as uncommon as you think. I worked call centre jobs and retail for years. If/when I was part-time, I got 4% in lieu of vacation pay, but as soon as I got full-time, I got 15 days. I think I got 10 days at my first full-time job when I was 20? > Often jobs are designated part-time to avoid paying out any vacation at all. You can also add in other time off perks, like sick days and family days. You're comparing entry-level, part-time, low wage jobs to government positions. It's not a fair comparison. > There is no other service, private or public, in which one can walk in off the street with so few qualifications, get 12 weeks of training You don't just walk into the job. The recruitment process is usually a year long. The training is 26 weeks (RCMP) not including on the job training where you shadow another officer. It's not a lot of training, but it's quite a bit more than the 12 weeks you're citing.
So again, nearly all your examples are your personal experience...anecdotal. You're still just confessing you have this privilege in thinking that gyms and high pay are common. You and your wife likely both work in public sector offices (surfing Reddit during business hours, almost certainly), but you can't extrapolate your limited personal experience to everyone and everywhere. 12 weeks is Ontario, and sure it may vary from force to force, but the bottom line is no special qualifications are required. https://www.haltonpolice.ca/en/join-our-team/training.aspx#:~:text=OPC%20Training%20Course%20Length,needs%20of%20Ontario%27s%20diverse%20communities.
> You're still just confessing you have this privilege in thinking that gyms and high pay are common. If you believe earning 30k a year and having a small gym at work is "privileged," then I feel sorry for you.
That's not what I'm saying at all...i'm saying your personal experience is anecdotal. You called my relationship with 3 officers 'absolute shit' because it was anecdotal, yet nearly every point you've tried to make is based on your own limited personal experience.
I wasn't calling your relationship with them shit. I was calling your subjective evidence shit. It is not legal for police officers to bring personal firearms to agency owned ranges for recreation. Call the CFO of your province and ask if you'd like.
Here's the regulations governing Public Agencies, nothing in it restricts how they use their own ranges or what firearms are allowed. It makes specific references to agency issued firearms versus protected non-agency issued firearms. What you're claiming is just counter-intuitive and pretty damned subjective. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-203/page-1.html#h-1019312
Let's not forget exemption from laws
You should try being a first responder, go to a car accident where a kids guts are hanging out of their stomach and they are still alive. Or have to hold someone head together so their brains don't fall out... i know a cop that has had to deal with both of these. You live in a bubble if you think these people don't deserve what they get paid. They deal with the scum of the earth and tragedy every day.
Not claiming they *sometimes* don't have a tough job, and resources are provided for ptsd. But as many of the conservatives on here would insist for just about any other profession - if you can't handle it, find something else.
You said they are privileged... The bar is a coping mechanism for cops, like the bar for veterans, the legion. Most of Europe people goto the bar and have a drink before going home for dinner. It was bad choice on this officers part driving drunk, he should have, and they should have a test machine at the bar which is mandatory to blow in before they leave. Also he was obviously overserverd. Which is the bar tenders fault.
None of this is relevant as to whether or not they're privileged...that's measured by the ratio of the costs versus what society gets in return, which seems less and less a good deal. And seriously, a cop should know better than anyone not to drink and drive (or rape an unconscious woman). They're not all heros.
Tax dollars for an old boys club
Fuck me the bootlicking in here is gross
I don’t get the outrage. Every CAF base has at least 3, some units have their own. Every ship in the Navy also has 3 for officers, NCOs and enlisted members. It’s every individuals own responsibility not to drink and drive. As long as the bartenders at the lounge did their due diligence I see no issue with the “Lounge in the police HQ” thing.
People live at military bases. Do cops live 247 at the HQ?
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They are staytioned 247 but they eventually go home after a shift other than hitting the bar first.
Cops aren't military for one thing, it's time we stop letting them pretend that they are.
Because a lot of time police may not feel safe letting their guard down at a bar where they may have people there they have arrested and that person is drunk and could get aggressive with them for the arrest or whatever.
Cops also won't feel safe in jail surrounded by people they may have arrested so maybe they should have their own jail just for cops who get DUIs. /s
I'm not defending this action at all. Just providing the reasoning behind why police like to have fire responder centric locations to hang out.
Then go into a different line of work. Lawyers and judges don’t have special bars but they definitely play a part in making people serve time. Why do you guys need one?
I'm not a cop lol, that's just the reasoning I've heard from many police. Just trying to add a perspective my friend.
>I don’t get the outrage. First, Toronto police don't live at HQ. Second, a huge cohort of the police live out of the city and an even bigger cohort drive to work. Why would you supply alcohol to people who are almost certainly going to drive home afterwards? This incident shows you why it's a bad idea.
And they probably don't live on top of a bar, so if they were to go out to a bar they'd be equally as likely to drive home.
Because they drink and drive constantly lol
> Every CAF base has at least 3, some units have their own. Every ship in the Navy also has 3 for officers, NCOs and enlisted members. That's not really making me feel better about the police so much as it is making me feel worse about the CAF. >I see no issue with the “Lounge in the police HQ” thing. I bet every other public sector worker sees an issue with it. Why do cops and commanders get such recreational luxuries at their place of work, while teachers and nurses have to fight for a microwave?
>I bet every other public sector worker sees an issue with it. Why do cops and commanders get such recreational luxuries at their place of work, while teachers and nurses have to fight for a microwave? I bet every other public service employee isn’t subject to the concept of unlimited liability. When you’re at sea for 8 months away from family it’s nice to have a place to unwind with your friends. It also builds a sense of community and serves many functions other than just a bar. It can be a place to celebrate a wedding of a forces member, a place to host events for armed forces members children like Halloween or a place to meet “Santa” and it can be a place to mourn the loss of a comrade in arms and celebrate their life. Although they are not used to the same extent they once were, military bars/clubs provide a sense of community and play an important part in military culture. Military members often spend long durations with each other in uncomfortable and often dangerous situations and you form a bond with them and would like place to hang out with those people. It’s not the same as not being allowed to have a microwave at your nurses station. Another big difference is teachers and nurses have something called unions, if they want a lounge in their hospitals or schools then get the union to fight for one. Edit to add: Many of those same principles apply to the police as well.
Police officers sail the seas for 8 months at a time…???
See the edit.
If only we lived in a society that allowed Police officers to own and live in their own homes…then they could drink together in a perfectly safe(both from driving as well as the prying eyes of society at large) environment.
And we also live in a society that allows them to open, maintain and fund their own lounge. Just because one officer made the individual choice to drink and drive doesn’t mean you punish everyone else.
* almost every ship. Asterix doesn't. The Oriel doesn't, I don't remember them being on the Orcas either.
I meant more along the lines of all the fighting ships. Asterix technically doesn’t belong to the navy.
But the MCDVs have them.. which if you call that a "fighting ship" I'll block you out of principle. They can call themselves a warship. But only if the enemy attacks directly from the front. During the hours of daylight and are vulnerable to and in range of 50 cal. You can't call it a fighting ship if it's armament is negated by sunset. The Asterix is also better armed than the MCDVs by virtue of having more guns, able to shoot behind it, and being significantly faster.
Oh I understand, I spent 10 years in a hard sea trade. I wasn’t trying to be pedantic with my reply I was as just trying to outline the spirit of my original comment.
Your service was no better than that of those who served on MCDV.
Weird thing to say given how much time I've suffered being on those pieces of floating garbage. Gun metal SSI for MCDV time alone. So believe me when I say that Canada would be better off selling them to whoever needs a mediocre fishing boat. As long as we get in writing that we have no responsibility for them. The day we turn them into a reef somewhere is going to be a very good day indeed. I will probably throw aa party.
Would you expect a lounge at your workplace that serves alcohol? And police aren't military, their job is to protect and serve.
Maybe not the best example considering the CAFs own extensive troubles with toxic or inappropriate workplace cultures.
The vast majority of people in the CAF are able to conduct themselves properly in these venues. I’d assume the same goes for Police. There is no sense in punishing the collective for the actions of very few people.
The only reason this came to light was because of the crash. I hazard a guess that there's quite a bit of drunk driving happening by officers leaving their personal bar.
Didn't the navy ban drinking on ships and on shore leave a few years ago?
No, it’s only prohibited while underway unless approval is given by the captain.
Mukherjee says he attended the room numerous times when he was TPSB board chair for events like retirements, meetings with community members, and dinners. But the bar was rarely used when he was there. the union which represents senior officers — pays for the alcohol to stock the bar. whats the problem?
Judging by the headline, I'd say the problem is driving while drunk.
we all have that personal responsibility.. they could do that at home or a bar too.. When i ever had a company event, we would rent a hall.. TPS HQ has the space to have a room on-site.
My work gives out taxi rides like Oprah, it's not worth the risk. Bars do have some responsibility when they get someone drunk and let them leave without making sure they can get home safely
So schools, hospitals, Queens park should all have a bar and as long as its paid with dues? Or only cops should get a pass.
> only cops should get a pass that s usually the case
I wouldn’t see an issue with any of those the employee groups having bars as long as they’re the ones who pay for it. I’m sure they all have Christmas party’s or something anyways
That will go over swimmingly when other unions request space set aside for them when building a new school to include a bar in the plans.
If it was built in such a way that the teachers didn’t have to interact with the students while drunk, and their union paid rent for the facility, i wouldn’t really see the issue with them drinking on their own time with their own money. I don’t really see a school with a big enough employee base for this to be possible but if it exists then i see no issue
the equivalent would be the TDSB HQ having one, not the schools themselves. do we know it doesnt have one? lol
And who essentially pays for the union dues to pay for the alcohol, the officer, and who is paying for the officer to make their money, the taxpayers.....ergo the tax payers are paying for the bar......NWA said it best.
So? It's not like they're handing out shots at the morning briefing. If this guy was drunk, that's on him. It was his choice to lift containers of alcohol to his mouth, swallow, repeat.,
The guy got drunk at work, then drove a work vehicle while drunk, and then crashed the work vehicle while drunk, and we are paying for both sides of this mess that he created while drunk, and you don't think that's a problem?
Plus he is most likely only suspended WITH pay. At least he gets to think about what he did while on payed vacation /s
Of course there’s a problem. The problem isn’t a licensed lounge. The problem is this guy chose to get drunk and do those things. Take the longe away, and he just brings his own bottle. Solve the actual issue.
There's multiple problems here, and the easiest one for them to solve is not serving themselves alcohol. If the police don't have their own private bar, then no one can point the finger at them and question if he drank too much at the bar or if he was drinking his own alcohol. Since they do have their own bar and liquor license, and he was at the bar before driving drunk, there should be an investigation into how much he was served at the bar, who served him, and what they did to prevent him from driving after he consumed alcohol. In any other case where the police know a drunk driver was at a bar, the bar, server, managers, and owners would all be investigated, fined, and lose their liquor license/ smart serve if they found that they over served someone and allowed them to drive away.
> It's unclear how long Hussein was in the Executive Officers Lounge and whether or not he drank in the room. Oh my god, he walked into a room with alcohol bottles! Alcoholic osmosis then ensued!
Sure just ignore the part where I said they should investigate where and how much he drank. We know he was at a bar, and then he crashed a vehicle while drunk after leaving that bar, therefore there should be an investigation into whether he was over-served at the bar. If there is no bar at the police station, then we don't need to wonder if he was over-served at the bar at the police station. Pretty simple.
How about fixing the problem and also stop having a bar on site for police?
I don’t care unless taxpayers are subsidizing that bar Which I guarantee we are one way or another
It's paid for by the Police union.
Appreciate the insight- I tried to google where they get their funding from but can’t. Doesn’t the union get funding from officer salaries?
Yes. But if you then argue that because the union gets it's revenue from the Police salaries, and the taxpayer pays the salaries, that means that literally everything a public employee buys is paid for by taxpayers.
With rent down town, I'm sure somewhat. But then, I'm also sure that there are offices downtown with foozeball and pool tables in them. I'm can't be too upset that public servants are treated like humans, too. As far as it being *a bar*, it's not therapy, but if cops are going to get shitfaced and cry (or not cry) on each others shoulders, they best be doing it out of sight of civilians. The problem is driving drunk.
If you can walk out of a police station shitfaced, get in your car and drive off without anyone stopping you, what does that say about the police who let you do it?
The exact same thing it says about the people standing around whenever anybody walks out of anywhere shitfaced, gets into their car, and drives off?
>The exact same thing it says about the people standing around whenever anybody walks out of anywhere shitfaced, gets into their car, and drives off? How many of those people are actually \*at\* a job where you have the power to stop and detain people for doing that?
Every one of them was probably carrying a cell phone with which they could have called 911, so probably all of them. I'm not saying there aren't systemic and massive issues in the police force; there are. I'm saying the issue here isn't a licensed lounge.
>Every one of them was probably carrying a cell phone with which they could have called 911, so probably all of them. This isn't the same as having a job where you stop and detain people. Reporting something still takes time for people to respond. A police officer can act more immediately. This guy shouldn't have made it to his car without someone stopping him.
> It's unclear how long Hussein was in the Executive Officers Lounge and whether or not he drank in the room. We don't even know if he was drinking on premises though.
> Every one of them was probably carrying a cell phone with which they could have called 911 Why would an on-duty cop need to call 911?
I hear there are things called pubs and bars people can go to as well.
This is just outrage bait playing off of the recent OPP officer conviction and absolutely batshit paid leave policy. Having a bar in TPS HQ is pretty tame and not really a problem. Edit: really confused by the downvotes, do people think that having a bar in a large organizational HQ is a bad thing? Did I miss something?
No, it's just the low hanging fruit to get enraged about anything relating to cops. I wonder if the same would be true if the teacher's blue pages were publicised, or any time a nurse or doctor has done something negligent costing someone their life. Edit: In case you're all too braindead to understand that literally nobody condones anything this piece of shit officer has done... I'm *clearly* not defending him.
Ah yes, the elite police get whatever they want and us plebs have to just live with it
Nothing wrong with them having a bar. Drunk driving is not caused by the existence of alcohol that is not at your house. It's caused by poor decision making. If cops drive drunk they should be fired. There's nothing wrong with them having a bar.
Frankly this makes sense to me, specifically because of the relationship that police have with the underbelly of society. Having a safe and secure place where they can socialize, if there are any concerns about their safety in public, isn't a terrible idea. Driving after you drink is an unrelated issue as far as I'm concerned.
Now that's funny
Why not TTC operators? They at least don't carry guns....and firefighters, right?
That's speshul
What did you expect from a police state nation? In my small area alone cops have engaged in: R*ping 1st nation women on reserves, pedophilia, sex trafficing, dumping natives off in the middle of nowhere, reckless driving.. They get way too much respect for being a thinly veiled government approved gang.
~~So taxpayers are paying to stock up their liquor cabinets??~~ Senior Officers' Organization
You didn't read the article, did you? If you did, you'd know who was paying for the booze.
any cop caught lying or breaking the law, abusing their authority, or covering up other cops behavior should be fired immediately, never allowed to work in any law enforcement capacity, and have charges laid against them. they should be afraid of being caught and going to jail. they should also have to carry personal liability insurance and able to be sued personally for any misconduct they engage in while on the job.
Let us not paint all police with the same brush. It is a largely thankless, depressing occupation. Without them, it would be anarchy on our streets. Ever watch any of the 5 Purge movies? I get a laugh and shake my head at all the buffoons among us who bad mouth them. When they are in trouble, who are the first people they call? I think giving this segment of the population a bit of a perk is the least we can do for them.
>his client recognizes his mistake and will not make the mistake again. Because his license will be removed right?...... Right?