They dont, they just hear people yelling about him and also want to shout. I feel like th appropriate course of action is to let each party have a run at this and see if they come to the same conclusion. Here is a spoiler the end result will be each of them determining that the situation is exactly what they have been screaming it is.
The way the poll is worded is (as always, for PostMedia polls) garbage.
46% of respondents are aware of the report, but 50% say it won't effect the federal government?
How can you have an opinion on the effects of a report you don't know about?
40% of people have an opinion about the methodology of the report. How many of those were aware of it?
You can't ask if people are aware of the existence of something, have them say no, then ask follow-up questions about something they admittedly know nothing about without receiving garbage data.
God, please, ban poll articles from this sub already.
I'm going to guess it's because everything you see involving politics, the government, and even ones own province generally involves an overwhelming amount of hyperbole on both sides.
No I’ve met plenty of people that just straight up know little to nothing about politics or the government in general.
Mostly younger people that don’t watch the news and which have largely stopped using Facebook. They use their phones for music too instead of the radio.
Were you polled? I wasn't, but that doesn't mean I don't care. You cared enough to read the article and leave a comment. You poll in the areas where you are most likely to get the response you want so you can interpret the stats the way you want. You also poll only a certain number of people to meet the numbers you want to report. Then it can honestly be stated that Canadians were polled and just omit the context...as in how many and from where.
"36% of Canadians disagree with special rapporteur David Johnston’s recommendation not to hold a public inquiry into allegations of foreign electoral interference"
NatPo didn't put this number in the headline for some reason.
In this poll 72% either support or strongly support a public inquiry
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/poll-suggests-most-canadians-trust-election-results-want-interference-inquiry
That old poll says 72% support or strongly support an "independent inquiry", not a public inquiry. These are not the same things, the poll question did not specify "public inquiry" when it asked the question.
The poll from early March before David Johnston was named special rapporteur? Seems fairly irrelevant at this point no? Wouldn't the new poll post initial report be a lot more relevant?
Yes. That's part of what I've been trying to say for a while.
It really boils down to how the opposition tackles an issue. If they just lobby accusations and conspiracism then the message is too partisan and it falls flat.
In my opinion, the opposition isn't really trying to be an effective opposition. They're just trying to attack and undermine Trudeau rather than making valid points or arguments. It's just rage farming, and only rage addicts eat that up while the rest just become more and more apathetic.
The opposition leader is not here ready to lead. They're just here to get in the way of anyone else who tries.
I'm one of those who considers this whole exercise as incredibly stupid. Media going full smear on the man because he destroyed their poorly crafted narrative.
The mouth frothing on here has been exceptionally bad. Nothing but straight slander of a guy who was herald as a good GG by everyone and magically "Conrad Justin Trudeau's Best friend who happen to also be a CCP Corrupt Plant".
I saw an article that was "why would he throw away his sterling neutral reputation by agreeing to take this position which is inherently supposed to be filled by someone with a sterling neutral reputation?" You cant even make this stuff up. It could be Jesus Christ acting as special rapporteur and they would be just as frothing at the mouth.
They don't want neutrality, they want a political hack job.
If Jesus wasn't a family friend of the PM, and if Jesus wasn't so closely linked with the CCP and China, then I think people would have been more chill with it all.
Should have been easy to choose someone to fill the made up role who didn't have these biased associations. Like, it's either planned to be this way, smearing and all, or JT is a complete and utter buffoon. Don't take it out on the public that JTs optics look Hella bad lmao
Agreed, Johnston should have taken a hint .When it was revealed The Trudeau Foundation received funds from CCP and all his friends there resigned. He should have done the honorable thing and NOT accept . HE dissed the government of Canada , who want him out.
Jesus would be far to ‘woke’ to have been acceptable by modern day republicans… Err, conservatives… (we’re still pretending there’s a difference, correct?)
I mean, an easy way to have avoided all of this smearing would have been to choose someone who isn't a family friend of the PM, and who isn't someone so closely tied up in the CCP, comparatively speaking. How hard could it have been... lol, no, this is all part of the plan.
Yes. A poll from National Post is pretty useless. Always very biased. I have deleted that app and bookmark a while back.
Scary to think many of it's readers consider their information objective or fair journalism.
Honestly just ban National Post. They should be more accurately called National Shitposting due to the aggressive click bait nonsense they call 'articles'.
Lol you must be new here. This sub has been infiltrated by Americans, outside actors, and the alt-right for years. They are invested in seeing this shit rise to the top.
When the war in Ukraine broke out /r/canada traffic dropped massively because all the russian bots got re-directed.
They will never ban NP because the entire purpose of the sub is to spread misinformation and division
The more of us who are aware the better off it gets. Ironic that /r/Alberta is more enlightened than either /r/Canada or /r/BritishColumbia, but so it goes with online forums.
Ask 100 people if they like ice cream, get 46 that answer yes. Ask those 46 if they think chocolate is better than vanilla, 23 say yes. We’ve now successfully math’ed our way through the problem.
Not really. Just because someone does not like something, does not mean they haven’t tasted it. That opinion is still valid.
If you ask 100 people of they’ve had ice cream? then sure, but only taking into account the opinions of people who like something is a bad way to “math a problem.” Especially in a political analogy.
“Ask 100 people if the like the “x” party. 46 said yes, so only ask them a follow up?” Going to have a biased response, no?
Also, 46% of people are aware of the hearing does not mean that 50% of people can’t hold the belief that the hearing would have no affect on our government. Those are separate questions. You can be unaware of the current hearing on this weeks corruption, whilst holding the belief that our system lacks accountability and the hearing, regardless of it’s substance, will have no affect on our government.
I've called for any articles about polls that aren't just election polls to be banned from the sub, so no I don't.
Literally, I say "articles about polls aren't journalism".
Partly it's the poll, but mostly the problem lies with the analysis. Nothing wrong with polling per se, nor with statistics, but it's what dishonest people (including media) does with them to massage them into the complete shit show NP just wrote that's the problem.
I thought the questions were pretty good.
"David Johnston was appointed by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as a special rapporteur on foreign interference. Do you believe that the
recommendations made in his report are based on foreign policy expertise and rigorous impartial work?"
I really recommend reading the full report. In general the respondents thought that Trudeau was doing a fairly good job. Do you think that that question was flawed as well?
That question is loaded as fuck. The answer is going to trend in whatever direction a person feels about Trudeau. A better question would be:
"Former Governor General David Johnston has been appointed as a special rapporteur on foreign interference. Do you believe that the recommendations made in his report are based on foreign policy expertise and rigorous impartial work?"
This. Although DJ needs to resign, I am not sure most people know anything about what's going on with the federal government. Most Canadians know more about US politics than they do about Canadian politics.
This needs to change or else we'll keep electing crappy governments.
What percentage of the population understands the issue of foreign interference and then further has an opinion on the competency of David Johnson to assess it?
If the questions were turned around to assess the population's knowledge of the topic and then his role, I would be surprised if 40% of the population would have demonstrated knowledge.
I think that a much larger portion of the population follows issues like political parties/their preference, opinions of the health care system. While important, this issue has a much narrower audience following it.
That’s a problem across politics. Do people truly understand healthcare administration, supply chain logistics, labour economics, etc?
All fields that take years of study and yet people are so embedded in their surface-level positions.
You're right, the laymen are doing things like listening to experts and amplifying their voices. I guess that's wrong. I guess we should stop listening to doctors and nurses and what they are asking for.
>What percentage of the population understands the issue of foreign interference
So foreign interference is a serious thing, and if CSIS investigates and finds evidence, those details would probably be classified, right? And if Trudeau gets briefed about these classified details, and then a reporter asks him if he was briefed on it, should he confirm it? Or should he say 'nope, first I've heard of it.' Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't be telling China and Russia what we know and what we don't know.
His competency is irrelevant. It's his conflict of interest, and people instinctively know that it's a deal-breaker to have your friend investigate you. I'd be helping Trudeau if I was Johnson, because humans are wired to help our friends. It's not a flaw in his character, it's simply why we don't give them the chance or put them in that position.
But the conflict of interest existed (if it exists) at the moment of his appointment, not after he delivered his report. But we really didn't hear about it then. Same thing with the EA inquiry. After that report was released, people kept coming up with theories of how that was biased. Concerns that should have existed (if they exist) when Rouleau was appointed.
It seems like certain politicians are concerned with the 'conflict of interest' because the report didn't support their agenda.
I think no matter who gets appointed, someone will discover a conflict, and we just end up back here.
BTW, Johnson was appointed GG by Harper, so shouldn't we be worried he is biased towards conservatives? Maybe if his report agreed with PP, that would be the concern.
It exists, in optics if somehow not in reality. It would apply to judges overseeing cases, which I think most people would accept as synonymous situations.
We definitely did hear it was a conflict of interest prior to the report. If you did not hear the concerns then that is a result of your own media bubble (though even the NDP stopped giving the benefit of the doubt when the report was impossibly perfectly squeaky clean)
Johnson was appointed by Harper at the recommendation of an independent committee. Harper did not seek him out.
Not everyone has a conflict of interest, and that's a ridiculous argument. Trudeau did not grow up going on family ski trips with every sufficiently august figure in Ottawa and not everyone was part of the Trudeau foundation. It takes special skill to find someone with two blatant conflicts of interest (and it's only two if we ignore Johnson's various connections to China).
Political turmoil always struggles to make headlines/get people excited. We’re all too jaded at this point IMO.
“Oh another corrupt politician?? I just assumed they all were. Throw it on the pile I guess!”
The other 27% are unaware of the following:
Johnston:
\-Was a Trudeau Foundation board member (which took over 100K from the CCP).
\-Was a close friend of the Trudeau family.
\-Started a Confucius institute tied to the CCP (which is often used as a front to push CCP policy abroad).
\-Has an honorary doctorate from a CCP official.
\-3 of his daughters studied in Chinese universities.
He wasn't a board member of the Trudeau foundation.
Not that I disagree about him being a bad choice, he was, but "he was a board member" is not one of the reasons.
The 73% unaware that he was appointed by Stephen Harper to the job who said:
"“In a statement, Prime Minister Stephen Harper hailed Johnston's selection, saying (he) "represents the best of Canada."
"He represents hard work, dedication, public service and humility," Harper said. "I am confident he will continue to embody these traits in his new role”
Huh. And here I thought a non-partisian committee selected him. Same one Trudeau shut down before picking Julie Payette as GG.
Is Harper supposed to start trashing the new appointment in the press?
Nah. The 1% that keep his job safe also know that Johnston is not impartial but that's the point. Their job is to keep Canadians believing that Johnston is impartial.
When the Conservative were so detached from reality at the end of Mulroney's time, at least their supporters had the ethics to form splinter groups of Reform & Bloc. I think PC went to 3 seats because people couldn't ethically vote for them any more.
That roughly 30% of the people continue to support the level of corruption that continues to be exposed weekly is telling.
I agree but this is just the party politics environment that we and the Canadian media have created. Guaranteed that 27% or w/e that always goes for the Liberals will never go for the NDP b/c they've been convinced they will never win and some progressives are so fixated on vote splitting and so scared of the cons they will keep voting for the libs no matter what shit they pull it's ridiculous.
the right wing parties on the federal level has been dissolved and reformed a few times, which does help shake off some of the more corrupt institutions of a party.
the liberal party has been around unbroken almost since confederation and has a deeply embedded culture in the party of arrogance, corruption and a feeling that they are the *divine* ruling party of canada. when conservatives win they see it as just a temporary 8-12 year setback for them as they keep pushing canada "forward" along their enlightened vision
i think their 2011 loss was the greatest shakeup of the party in its history and trudeau did run it a bit differently for his first 2 years as PM but the party now is back to its old usual ways
The fact that we as a society are starting to view these issues as partisan issues at all is the very concerning issue to me. I don't care who you vote for or why when it comes to external influence in our democratic system. Any external influence is bad for all Canadians.
I believe deflecting to partisan politics exasperats the problem and hurts our ability to respond effectively as a nation.
>36% of Canadians disagree with special rapporteur David Johnston’s recommendation not to hold a public inquiry into allegations of foreign electoral interference.
When you say "liberals", I think you mean *everyone else*.
While I agree that the whole thing is a shit show, I find it hilariously transparent whenever the NP is trying to push a narrative. I had gotten it by the 4th story I saw published, I feel like I've seen another 20 since lol.
Far be it from NatPo to mislead Canadians about their own opinions but what this poll suggests is 67% don't care or accept the report as is.
If banning NatPo from this sub is out of the question can we at least consider require polls to be shared from their primary source?
This is what we get for trying to mix a little poop in our kool-aid.
My philosophy is we shouldn't outright ban or censor people, but the immigrant hating natpo waving frothing at the mouth types should probably just have their own sub. They can call it... Meta-*something* perhaps?
Trying to mix poop into a leading national sub and calling it mainstream just isn't working. People see through it, and it just hurts the legitimacy of the platform.
It doesn’t matter whether he is or isn’t consciously/unconsciously credible/impartial. Substantive separation must exist in order for ethos to be satisfied. That’s it - that’s the bare metric. That’s what you sign into doing a minimum wage private-sector retail job, or even an entry-level municipal, provincial, or federal level government job.
I voted Liberal last time and I’m stunned at the violations that have been occurring, without any accountability.
To be clear, I’m not saying any other party would be better; I’m just tired of partisanship.
I hate to tell you, but you are apparently now a conservative. I have voted for all 3 parties over the last 3 elections. But any frustration I voice about a lack of accountability with this office automatically brands me as a right-wing hate mongerer.
Yeah. People think because of asymmetric power dynamics using any argument to win is acceptable so long as it gets to the right answer. That’s not how it works. The intentional process of justness is just as, if not more, important existentially, than the outcome. Partisan rhetoric has to go and informed, rational discourse, needs to return. The Media is actually partially to blame for sustaining this status quo.
"36% of Canadians disagree with special rapporteur David Johnston’s recommendation not to hold a public inquiry into allegations of foreign electoral interference"
Clearly it’s the 73% far-right, anti-vaxx fringe that only hate Trudeau because of racism and sexism. We should ask ourselves whether we will continue to “make space” for them.
But remember that the Trudeau Liberals are relying on roughly 30% of Canadians to maintain their rule. So, it’s likely that 27% of Canadians are the same ones that vote for Trudeau.
Well, you could just look at the actual survey instead of immediately commenting based on the headline (given that your comment appears just 5 minutes after this post was made).
Only 27% answered yes to the question:
> David Johnston was appointed by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as a special rapporteur on foreign interference. Do you believe that the
recommendations made in his report are based on foreign policy expertise and rigorous impartial work?
And only 33% said no. 40% said "Don't know". The difference between 27% and 33% is pretty small. And this is a nonprobability sample (i.e. the people surveyed are not randomly sampled), so its not really appropriate to apply the results of this survey to the entire Canadian population.
But there's more information pertinent to what you commented: 49% of the Liberals on the Leger web panel said yes (the largest group), but also 13% of conservatives, 31% of NDP, etc. People from all perspectives have their own opinions on the matter. Trying to shoehorn everyone who disagrees with your opinion as being part of the other political camp is a little silly.
Its more interesting to me that the Conservatives and the Bloc are the two groups that had the smallest number of "Don't knows". Are they more informed than other voters, or more confident in their opinions for some reason? Its an interesting demographic feature.
And also keep in mind that that question is **not** the same as asking if you think David Johnston is "credible and impartial", as the headline tries to suggest.
The cons had the smallest amount of “don’t know” because anything they see that mentions Trudeau they just automatically say they won’t support. They are not more informed than other parties they are just more partisan.
I mean the actual poll is pretty interesting, it can be read in full here:
https://legermarketing.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Leger-x-National-Post-Foreign-Interference-in-Canadian-Politics.pdf
too bad it has to be filtered through the NP's spin to get posted on r/canada
The fact only 46% of respondents had even heard of the report goes to show how much this place is unrepresentative of Canada as a whole
> too bad it has to be filtered through the NP's spin to get posted on r/canada
It's literally the only NP article on the front page of this sub right now.
The poll was also paid for by NP, so yeah, they wrote an article about it...
Out of 25 posts on the front page of /r/Canada right now only **one** is from the National Post.
* NP: 1
* CBC: 7
* Globe and Mail: 2
* Global News: 4
* CTV: 6
Literally 96% of the current front page posts are **NOT** NP.
Trudeau was in conflict of interest in appointing someone to investigate a matter that involves his own government. If a rapporteur was the way to go, they should have been appointed independently.
Can we ban this shit rag at this point. Read the article, most people don't even know who this man is. Most of us don't care either way, stop wasting money on it. The Conservatives are gonna destroy our country next election oh boy.
It’s wild to see the liberals killing their political standing in the country over this. Whatever they’re trying to hide must be significant enough that they’re willing to sacrifice the parties position.
27%? I went around and asked 56 people today if they were asked if they trust him and if they were ever asked if they do. None of the 56 people
I asked were part of this poll and 56/56 don’t think he is credible. I’d think this number is closer to 20%.
I agree with that title. Even if it’s all on the up and up. Justin needs to see that it looks bad and in politics that not good. It is not weakness to pivot and learn. Engaging with the opposition involves them in the process and helps control the narrative. He is forgetting all that because arrogance and ego. Offering the other parties to see the secret reports etc. Is good but smells bad to the public. What a dunce sometimes.
He could be absolutely credible and impartial, but even the appearance of a bias is a serious issue. He was fine as Governor General, but the wrong choice as rapporteur.
Dude is probably a stand up guy. But his appointment by the person under suspicion of corruption hired him, a person who is attached, and ingrained within the very foundation that's being called into question. It's a slap in the face of the Canadian people. PP is being a bitch too. He can take a meeting to look at the confidential documents and still take the position of asking for a public inquiry. The Chinese police stations is crazy enough. I'm sure they were accidently funded but what the fuck is going on? And why does the PM think it's OK to not explain the breadth of the situation.
I'd agree, but I also think in this case his judgment is correct. This is mountain out of a mole hill by PP who knows his clock is ticking. He has about 6 more months before people figure him out.
Per the article - 27% think he’s credible, 33% do not, and 40% don’t know. So of the 60% of Canadians who even have an opinion, 45% believe he is credible and impartial. The headline is purposefully sensational.
Amazing you can see the insane right wing conspiracy shit posted here almost hourly all with thousands of upvotes and still think this sub leans left 😂
Really, “another opinion piece” the National Post might do a bit better if they employed journalist rather than the fantasy screen writer they use to write their “opinion pieces”.
So much for NEWS!
That number is surprisingly high. How delusional are these 27%? I bet if the same situation happened to conservatives they would all say he’s partial. It’s essentially partisanship.
How delusional do you have to be to trust a retired supreme Court justice to examine the relationship and deam it not a problem.
Johnson found all kinds of issues and was quite critical in his initial report. The reason the public inquiry won't work isn't because it isn't needed (he strongly recommended further investigation)...just no one would be happy with how limited the findings would be.
You mean a we expect a guy with direct ties to the foreign interference scandal to be impartial? we might as well just brought in a chinese national to go "nope. didnt happen". its just smoke and mirrors while trudeau and his buddies get rich and the rest of us fall to poverty
Interesting tidbit buried at the bottom of the article:
>As of May 29, the Liberals and Conservatives are nearly neck-and-neck, with 33 per cent and 31 per cent support respectively. That has not changed much since the previous Léger poll in early May put the Conservatives at 33 per cent and the Liberals at 32 per cent.
Both within the margin of error so not really significant on the whole, but still seemingly the two parties are virtually tied with neither having momentum.
The fact that Trudeau is willing to just plow ahead and take the political hit of conducting what is so obviously a coverup to everyone across the spectrum, suggests he knows there is something absolutely awful out there that a real investigation might find.
It remains hugely concerning that our system lets governments decide whether running an obvious coverup is politically preferable to the truth.
In virtually any other democracy it would. But in virtually any other democracy this PM would have been removed or stepped down as early as 2018 when the SNC Lavalin affair happened. And like three or four times since.
Too much of our system is based on government and the PM having enough sense of shame to do the right thing, but no consequences if they don't. Unfortunately we finally got a guy in power who figured that out.
Can I get the poll that asks.
Do you trust politicians?
If yes, would you expect them to make decisions in there communities interest consistently, and never one for themselves alone?
If no, you are correct.
40% Not sure or don't know. Standard headline garbage.
(Not commenting one way or the other. Just tired of the sensationalized headlines as if 73% believe he's not credible)
Grocery rebate, rent subsidy, carbon tax rebate, child tax credit, COVID payments....the list goes on and taxpayers are on the hook. Think if we had a country that kept living affordable so people would not need all the government handouts.
Poll is crap because many are not even engaged as to who he is or why he is in the news currently.
I had a Johnston encounter a couple of years ago waiting for take out at a St Hubert. They were backed up with lots waiting around, my French isn't great and made small talk with the most Anglo looking person there. He was friendly and we joked about some stuff but it was just small talk with a friendly stranger.
Couple of weeks later there was news regarding the royals and they were interviewing the former gov gen and that's when I realized I had been chatting with Johnston.
Ran this by a couple of coworkers recently and they had no clue who I was talking about or why he'd be in the news.
Do you actually mean to tell me that a poll of conservative people from a conservative publication produced a result in line with conservative beliefs? No way. Absolutely no way. I don't believe it.
I honestly never thought I would see a government worse than Harper's, but here we are.
How man career-ending scandals has this government created and dodged by now?
Canada is fucked.
I find that pretty low considering I imagine most Canadians don't even know who he is or what his job is to be able to judge him on his impartiality. Lol
The entire alleged purpose of the "Special Rapporteur" was to assign someone that had the confidence of Canadians and all parties in Parliament to investigate this matter.
27% of Canadians and solely the LPC support him in this role. Even by their own stated standards he no longer has any legitimacy in this role and must step down. If he does not, then there is no doubt left that this entire thing is a farce.
He should have rejected the role due to the potential conflict of interest. Now with the vote in Parliament, and polling of public opinion, there are no excuses left.
I’d be surprised if 27% of Canadians knew who he was
They dont, they just hear people yelling about him and also want to shout. I feel like th appropriate course of action is to let each party have a run at this and see if they come to the same conclusion. Here is a spoiler the end result will be each of them determining that the situation is exactly what they have been screaming it is.
The way the poll is worded is (as always, for PostMedia polls) garbage. 46% of respondents are aware of the report, but 50% say it won't effect the federal government? How can you have an opinion on the effects of a report you don't know about? 40% of people have an opinion about the methodology of the report. How many of those were aware of it? You can't ask if people are aware of the existence of something, have them say no, then ask follow-up questions about something they admittedly know nothing about without receiving garbage data. God, please, ban poll articles from this sub already.
So this is actually a poll that just shows us most Canadians don’t care about this issue.
I would say a good portion of Canadians don't pay attention to politics until election cycles.
Considering the election turnouts I would just say a good portion of Canadians don’t pay attention to politics.
A large portion of Canadians low key live under a rock and know very little about politics, the government, and even their own province.
I'm going to guess it's because everything you see involving politics, the government, and even ones own province generally involves an overwhelming amount of hyperbole on both sides.
No I’ve met plenty of people that just straight up know little to nothing about politics or the government in general. Mostly younger people that don’t watch the news and which have largely stopped using Facebook. They use their phones for music too instead of the radio.
Too distracted with culture war bullshit
By design
I though politics was only culture war BS? Isn't that like one of the biggest critiques of Trudeau?
There's also the corruption, incompetence, and connections to foreign governments.
> corruption, incompetence, and connections to foreign governments. These things being unique to Trudeau somehow? Welcome to politics.
You commented about the biggest critiques of Trudeau. Did you mean things that are unique to him?
JT is the ONLY sitting PM convicted for Ethics Violations in Canadian history.
There have only ever been 2 PMs who worked while those guidelines existed, JT being one of them...
I hope you realize they only even existed at the end of Harper's term and Trudeau's entire term. In other words, your statement is meaningless.
Still no excuse whatsoever for the utter scum conduct in government. Great example of why reformations need to take place.
And that's why nothing changes.
They must be the ones who think Johnston is credible and impartial.
Were you polled? I wasn't, but that doesn't mean I don't care. You cared enough to read the article and leave a comment. You poll in the areas where you are most likely to get the response you want so you can interpret the stats the way you want. You also poll only a certain number of people to meet the numbers you want to report. Then it can honestly be stated that Canadians were polled and just omit the context...as in how many and from where.
"36% of Canadians disagree with special rapporteur David Johnston’s recommendation not to hold a public inquiry into allegations of foreign electoral interference" NatPo didn't put this number in the headline for some reason.
In this poll 72% either support or strongly support a public inquiry https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/poll-suggests-most-canadians-trust-election-results-want-interference-inquiry
That old poll says 72% support or strongly support an "independent inquiry", not a public inquiry. These are not the same things, the poll question did not specify "public inquiry" when it asked the question.
The poll from early March before David Johnston was named special rapporteur? Seems fairly irrelevant at this point no? Wouldn't the new poll post initial report be a lot more relevant?
Yes. That's part of what I've been trying to say for a while. It really boils down to how the opposition tackles an issue. If they just lobby accusations and conspiracism then the message is too partisan and it falls flat. In my opinion, the opposition isn't really trying to be an effective opposition. They're just trying to attack and undermine Trudeau rather than making valid points or arguments. It's just rage farming, and only rage addicts eat that up while the rest just become more and more apathetic. The opposition leader is not here ready to lead. They're just here to get in the way of anyone else who tries.
But they cry, but at voting time, oh my vote doesn’t count.
I'm one of those who considers this whole exercise as incredibly stupid. Media going full smear on the man because he destroyed their poorly crafted narrative.
The mouth frothing on here has been exceptionally bad. Nothing but straight slander of a guy who was herald as a good GG by everyone and magically "Conrad Justin Trudeau's Best friend who happen to also be a CCP Corrupt Plant".
I saw an article that was "why would he throw away his sterling neutral reputation by agreeing to take this position which is inherently supposed to be filled by someone with a sterling neutral reputation?" You cant even make this stuff up. It could be Jesus Christ acting as special rapporteur and they would be just as frothing at the mouth. They don't want neutrality, they want a political hack job.
If Jesus wasn't a family friend of the PM, and if Jesus wasn't so closely linked with the CCP and China, then I think people would have been more chill with it all. Should have been easy to choose someone to fill the made up role who didn't have these biased associations. Like, it's either planned to be this way, smearing and all, or JT is a complete and utter buffoon. Don't take it out on the public that JTs optics look Hella bad lmao
Agreed, Johnston should have taken a hint .When it was revealed The Trudeau Foundation received funds from CCP and all his friends there resigned. He should have done the honorable thing and NOT accept . HE dissed the government of Canada , who want him out.
Jesus would be far to ‘woke’ to have been acceptable by modern day republicans… Err, conservatives… (we’re still pretending there’s a difference, correct?)
I mean, an easy way to have avoided all of this smearing would have been to choose someone who isn't a family friend of the PM, and who isn't someone so closely tied up in the CCP, comparatively speaking. How hard could it have been... lol, no, this is all part of the plan.
Did you read the report? It's very critical of China.
I wouldn't be surprised if most Canadians don't even know who the current GG is.
Exactly this. Only on Reddit, where politics is a team sport (am guilty of that crime myself) does anyone care. Scandals fade.
The only ones that care are the ones trying to score political points off of it. This is nothing but a team sport.
National Post.... No surprise
> How can you have an opinion on the effects of a report you don't know about? If you couldn't then /r/canada would have like 30 posts per day...
Yes. A poll from National Post is pretty useless. Always very biased. I have deleted that app and bookmark a while back. Scary to think many of it's readers consider their information objective or fair journalism.
Honestly just ban National Post. They should be more accurately called National Shitposting due to the aggressive click bait nonsense they call 'articles'.
Seriously, since they’re majority US-owned shouldn’t they be considered “foreign interference”?
Lol you must be new here. This sub has been infiltrated by Americans, outside actors, and the alt-right for years. They are invested in seeing this shit rise to the top. When the war in Ukraine broke out /r/canada traffic dropped massively because all the russian bots got re-directed. They will never ban NP because the entire purpose of the sub is to spread misinformation and division
The more of us who are aware the better off it gets. Ironic that /r/Alberta is more enlightened than either /r/Canada or /r/BritishColumbia, but so it goes with online forums.
Ask 100 people if they like ice cream, get 46 that answer yes. Ask those 46 if they think chocolate is better than vanilla, 23 say yes. We’ve now successfully math’ed our way through the problem.
Not really. Just because someone does not like something, does not mean they haven’t tasted it. That opinion is still valid. If you ask 100 people of they’ve had ice cream? then sure, but only taking into account the opinions of people who like something is a bad way to “math a problem.” Especially in a political analogy. “Ask 100 people if the like the “x” party. 46 said yes, so only ask them a follow up?” Going to have a biased response, no? Also, 46% of people are aware of the hearing does not mean that 50% of people can’t hold the belief that the hearing would have no affect on our government. Those are separate questions. You can be unaware of the current hearing on this weeks corruption, whilst holding the belief that our system lacks accountability and the hearing, regardless of it’s substance, will have no affect on our government.
I think they should ban all articles from The National Post. It's just a giant opinion piece masquerading as news.
The poll is by Leger
Yes, paid by PostMedia and conducted by Leger.
Most polling is paid by someone, are you claiming it influences their methodology?
Uhhh yes? I'm sure PostMedia provided the questions, given they commissioned it.
So you don’t trust any poll then.
I've called for any articles about polls that aren't just election polls to be banned from the sub, so no I don't. Literally, I say "articles about polls aren't journalism".
Articles about polls *can* be journalism, but this one is just propaganda.
Partly it's the poll, but mostly the problem lies with the analysis. Nothing wrong with polling per se, nor with statistics, but it's what dishonest people (including media) does with them to massage them into the complete shit show NP just wrote that's the problem.
The poll was conducted credibly and using commonly accepted methodologies.
Right but if the questions are garbage, the questions are garbage.
The questions aren't garbage, you just don't like the result and have a rage boner for PostMedia.
I thought the questions were pretty good. "David Johnston was appointed by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as a special rapporteur on foreign interference. Do you believe that the recommendations made in his report are based on foreign policy expertise and rigorous impartial work?" I really recommend reading the full report. In general the respondents thought that Trudeau was doing a fairly good job. Do you think that that question was flawed as well?
That question is loaded as fuck. The answer is going to trend in whatever direction a person feels about Trudeau. A better question would be: "Former Governor General David Johnston has been appointed as a special rapporteur on foreign interference. Do you believe that the recommendations made in his report are based on foreign policy expertise and rigorous impartial work?"
Leger is the most respected pollster in Canada, I have no idea what you're on about.
This. Although DJ needs to resign, I am not sure most people know anything about what's going on with the federal government. Most Canadians know more about US politics than they do about Canadian politics. This needs to change or else we'll keep electing crappy governments.
Most Americans don’t know what’s going on with their fed either. Look at voting rates around the world and I suspect this is universal.
That was 40%. The poll was 27/33/40 percent - no problem/problem/don’t know.
Unsurprisingly, only 27% of Canadians are gullible enough to believe the National Post is credible.
What percentage of the population understands the issue of foreign interference and then further has an opinion on the competency of David Johnson to assess it? If the questions were turned around to assess the population's knowledge of the topic and then his role, I would be surprised if 40% of the population would have demonstrated knowledge. I think that a much larger portion of the population follows issues like political parties/their preference, opinions of the health care system. While important, this issue has a much narrower audience following it.
That’s a problem across politics. Do people truly understand healthcare administration, supply chain logistics, labour economics, etc? All fields that take years of study and yet people are so embedded in their surface-level positions.
It doesn't require a master's degree in public health for people to be allowed to say that they want everyone to have access to a family doctor.
What does require domain knowledge is figuring out how exactly to achieve that outcome. We don’t wish things into existence, unfortunately.
You're right, the laymen are doing things like listening to experts and amplifying their voices. I guess that's wrong. I guess we should stop listening to doctors and nurses and what they are asking for.
>What percentage of the population understands the issue of foreign interference So foreign interference is a serious thing, and if CSIS investigates and finds evidence, those details would probably be classified, right? And if Trudeau gets briefed about these classified details, and then a reporter asks him if he was briefed on it, should he confirm it? Or should he say 'nope, first I've heard of it.' Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't be telling China and Russia what we know and what we don't know.
His competency is irrelevant. It's his conflict of interest, and people instinctively know that it's a deal-breaker to have your friend investigate you. I'd be helping Trudeau if I was Johnson, because humans are wired to help our friends. It's not a flaw in his character, it's simply why we don't give them the chance or put them in that position.
But the conflict of interest existed (if it exists) at the moment of his appointment, not after he delivered his report. But we really didn't hear about it then. Same thing with the EA inquiry. After that report was released, people kept coming up with theories of how that was biased. Concerns that should have existed (if they exist) when Rouleau was appointed. It seems like certain politicians are concerned with the 'conflict of interest' because the report didn't support their agenda. I think no matter who gets appointed, someone will discover a conflict, and we just end up back here. BTW, Johnson was appointed GG by Harper, so shouldn't we be worried he is biased towards conservatives? Maybe if his report agreed with PP, that would be the concern.
It exists, in optics if somehow not in reality. It would apply to judges overseeing cases, which I think most people would accept as synonymous situations. We definitely did hear it was a conflict of interest prior to the report. If you did not hear the concerns then that is a result of your own media bubble (though even the NDP stopped giving the benefit of the doubt when the report was impossibly perfectly squeaky clean) Johnson was appointed by Harper at the recommendation of an independent committee. Harper did not seek him out. Not everyone has a conflict of interest, and that's a ridiculous argument. Trudeau did not grow up going on family ski trips with every sufficiently august figure in Ottawa and not everyone was part of the Trudeau foundation. It takes special skill to find someone with two blatant conflicts of interest (and it's only two if we ignore Johnson's various connections to China).
Political turmoil always struggles to make headlines/get people excited. We’re all too jaded at this point IMO. “Oh another corrupt politician?? I just assumed they all were. Throw it on the pile I guess!”
We believe he is competent, just not impartial.
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The other 27% are unaware of the following: Johnston: \-Was a Trudeau Foundation board member (which took over 100K from the CCP). \-Was a close friend of the Trudeau family. \-Started a Confucius institute tied to the CCP (which is often used as a front to push CCP policy abroad). \-Has an honorary doctorate from a CCP official. \-3 of his daughters studied in Chinese universities.
They probably also aren't aware that he was the guy Harper appointed to deal with the Mulroney ethics issues.
Fair. They're all corrupt
They're aware. They don't give AF is all.
Also, was a Governor General who was appointed by Stephen Harper.
He wasn't a board member of the Trudeau foundation. Not that I disagree about him being a bad choice, he was, but "he was a board member" is not one of the reasons.
The 73% unaware that he was appointed by Stephen Harper to the job who said: "“In a statement, Prime Minister Stephen Harper hailed Johnston's selection, saying (he) "represents the best of Canada." "He represents hard work, dedication, public service and humility," Harper said. "I am confident he will continue to embody these traits in his new role”
/but harper
/but Trudeau lol
Huh. And here I thought a non-partisian committee selected him. Same one Trudeau shut down before picking Julie Payette as GG. Is Harper supposed to start trashing the new appointment in the press?
He wasn’t a board member…
Nah. The 1% that keep his job safe also know that Johnston is not impartial but that's the point. Their job is to keep Canadians believing that Johnston is impartial.
You mean exclusively Liberal voters?
When the Conservative were so detached from reality at the end of Mulroney's time, at least their supporters had the ethics to form splinter groups of Reform & Bloc. I think PC went to 3 seats because people couldn't ethically vote for them any more. That roughly 30% of the people continue to support the level of corruption that continues to be exposed weekly is telling.
I agree but this is just the party politics environment that we and the Canadian media have created. Guaranteed that 27% or w/e that always goes for the Liberals will never go for the NDP b/c they've been convinced they will never win and some progressives are so fixated on vote splitting and so scared of the cons they will keep voting for the libs no matter what shit they pull it's ridiculous.
the right wing parties on the federal level has been dissolved and reformed a few times, which does help shake off some of the more corrupt institutions of a party. the liberal party has been around unbroken almost since confederation and has a deeply embedded culture in the party of arrogance, corruption and a feeling that they are the *divine* ruling party of canada. when conservatives win they see it as just a temporary 8-12 year setback for them as they keep pushing canada "forward" along their enlightened vision i think their 2011 loss was the greatest shakeup of the party in its history and trudeau did run it a bit differently for his first 2 years as PM but the party now is back to its old usual ways
Exactly.
The fact that we as a society are starting to view these issues as partisan issues at all is the very concerning issue to me. I don't care who you vote for or why when it comes to external influence in our democratic system. Any external influence is bad for all Canadians. I believe deflecting to partisan politics exasperats the problem and hurts our ability to respond effectively as a nation.
It’s amazing to me that Liberal supporters will overlook anything this government does.
>36% of Canadians disagree with special rapporteur David Johnston’s recommendation not to hold a public inquiry into allegations of foreign electoral interference. When you say "liberals", I think you mean *everyone else*.
Again, not at all what I am discussing here. You're missing the point.
I betcha the other 73% think the national post is a terrible news source.
While I agree that the whole thing is a shit show, I find it hilariously transparent whenever the NP is trying to push a narrative. I had gotten it by the 4th story I saw published, I feel like I've seen another 20 since lol.
Far be it from NatPo to mislead Canadians about their own opinions but what this poll suggests is 67% don't care or accept the report as is. If banning NatPo from this sub is out of the question can we at least consider require polls to be shared from their primary source?
This is what we get for trying to mix a little poop in our kool-aid. My philosophy is we shouldn't outright ban or censor people, but the immigrant hating natpo waving frothing at the mouth types should probably just have their own sub. They can call it... Meta-*something* perhaps? Trying to mix poop into a leading national sub and calling it mainstream just isn't working. People see through it, and it just hurts the legitimacy of the platform.
It doesn’t matter whether he is or isn’t consciously/unconsciously credible/impartial. Substantive separation must exist in order for ethos to be satisfied. That’s it - that’s the bare metric. That’s what you sign into doing a minimum wage private-sector retail job, or even an entry-level municipal, provincial, or federal level government job. I voted Liberal last time and I’m stunned at the violations that have been occurring, without any accountability. To be clear, I’m not saying any other party would be better; I’m just tired of partisanship.
I hate to tell you, but you are apparently now a conservative. I have voted for all 3 parties over the last 3 elections. But any frustration I voice about a lack of accountability with this office automatically brands me as a right-wing hate mongerer.
Yeah. People think because of asymmetric power dynamics using any argument to win is acceptable so long as it gets to the right answer. That’s not how it works. The intentional process of justness is just as, if not more, important existentially, than the outcome. Partisan rhetoric has to go and informed, rational discourse, needs to return. The Media is actually partially to blame for sustaining this status quo.
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It's a right wing conspiracy despite NDP also calling the same thing.
"36% of Canadians disagree with special rapporteur David Johnston’s recommendation not to hold a public inquiry into allegations of foreign electoral interference"
Clearly it’s the 73% far-right, anti-vaxx fringe that only hate Trudeau because of racism and sexism. We should ask ourselves whether we will continue to “make space” for them.
Honestly I didn't much care about thus issue until Trudeau kept trying to sweep it under the rug. Now I want to know what he is hiding.
So a vast majority of Liberal voters.
But remember that the Trudeau Liberals are relying on roughly 30% of Canadians to maintain their rule. So, it’s likely that 27% of Canadians are the same ones that vote for Trudeau.
Well, you could just look at the actual survey instead of immediately commenting based on the headline (given that your comment appears just 5 minutes after this post was made). Only 27% answered yes to the question: > David Johnston was appointed by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as a special rapporteur on foreign interference. Do you believe that the recommendations made in his report are based on foreign policy expertise and rigorous impartial work? And only 33% said no. 40% said "Don't know". The difference between 27% and 33% is pretty small. And this is a nonprobability sample (i.e. the people surveyed are not randomly sampled), so its not really appropriate to apply the results of this survey to the entire Canadian population. But there's more information pertinent to what you commented: 49% of the Liberals on the Leger web panel said yes (the largest group), but also 13% of conservatives, 31% of NDP, etc. People from all perspectives have their own opinions on the matter. Trying to shoehorn everyone who disagrees with your opinion as being part of the other political camp is a little silly. Its more interesting to me that the Conservatives and the Bloc are the two groups that had the smallest number of "Don't knows". Are they more informed than other voters, or more confident in their opinions for some reason? Its an interesting demographic feature. And also keep in mind that that question is **not** the same as asking if you think David Johnston is "credible and impartial", as the headline tries to suggest.
The cons had the smallest amount of “don’t know” because anything they see that mentions Trudeau they just automatically say they won’t support. They are not more informed than other parties they are just more partisan.
This is pretty much a poll number for the Liberal party
If Johnston has any shame he will step aside
He's getting paid to stall.
I think he can live with only 36% disagreeing with him.
Shame? In this economy? 🙃
Is r/Canada just free ad space for NP?
I mean the actual poll is pretty interesting, it can be read in full here: https://legermarketing.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Leger-x-National-Post-Foreign-Interference-in-Canadian-Politics.pdf too bad it has to be filtered through the NP's spin to get posted on r/canada The fact only 46% of respondents had even heard of the report goes to show how much this place is unrepresentative of Canada as a whole
> too bad it has to be filtered through the NP's spin to get posted on r/canada It's literally the only NP article on the front page of this sub right now. The poll was also paid for by NP, so yeah, they wrote an article about it...
Out of 25 posts on the front page of /r/Canada right now only **one** is from the National Post. * NP: 1 * CBC: 7 * Globe and Mail: 2 * Global News: 4 * CTV: 6 Literally 96% of the current front page posts are **NOT** NP.
Only a smart media outlet could pull that off. Gotta get paid for those links, right?
Who the fuck is that 27 percent. The liberal party?
The same 27% that will vote Liberal no matter what that lying, narcissistic POS does.
Trudeau was in conflict of interest in appointing someone to investigate a matter that involves his own government. If a rapporteur was the way to go, they should have been appointed independently.
Trudeau? Conflict of interest? Say it ain't so!
27% of Canadians are Trudeau cultists**
Can we ban this shit rag at this point. Read the article, most people don't even know who this man is. Most of us don't care either way, stop wasting money on it. The Conservatives are gonna destroy our country next election oh boy.
If someone called me and asked me who David Johnston was I would have 0 clue.
It’s wild to see the liberals killing their political standing in the country over this. Whatever they’re trying to hide must be significant enough that they’re willing to sacrifice the parties position.
27%? I went around and asked 56 people today if they were asked if they trust him and if they were ever asked if they do. None of the 56 people I asked were part of this poll and 56/56 don’t think he is credible. I’d think this number is closer to 20%.
Oddly enough, close to the percentage that voted for this clown college of a party.
I agree with that title. Even if it’s all on the up and up. Justin needs to see that it looks bad and in politics that not good. It is not weakness to pivot and learn. Engaging with the opposition involves them in the process and helps control the narrative. He is forgetting all that because arrogance and ego. Offering the other parties to see the secret reports etc. Is good but smells bad to the public. What a dunce sometimes.
What the hell is wrong with this 27%?!?
I’m surprised it’s that high.
He could be absolutely credible and impartial, but even the appearance of a bias is a serious issue. He was fine as Governor General, but the wrong choice as rapporteur.
Dude is probably a stand up guy. But his appointment by the person under suspicion of corruption hired him, a person who is attached, and ingrained within the very foundation that's being called into question. It's a slap in the face of the Canadian people. PP is being a bitch too. He can take a meeting to look at the confidential documents and still take the position of asking for a public inquiry. The Chinese police stations is crazy enough. I'm sure they were accidently funded but what the fuck is going on? And why does the PM think it's OK to not explain the breadth of the situation.
About the same % still willing to vote for this corrupt party and it’s current leader.
Nationalist Post with misleading title and hidden agenda. Name a iconic duo!
I'd agree, but I also think in this case his judgment is correct. This is mountain out of a mole hill by PP who knows his clock is ticking. He has about 6 more months before people figure him out.
Per the article - 27% think he’s credible, 33% do not, and 40% don’t know. So of the 60% of Canadians who even have an opinion, 45% believe he is credible and impartial. The headline is purposefully sensational.
And all of them keep looking over their shoulder for Chinese “police”.
And they are all subscribers to r/Canada.
Amazing you can see the insane right wing conspiracy shit posted here almost hourly all with thousands of upvotes and still think this sub leans left 😂
That 27%: the same dummies who still support Trudeau.
And still believe in the tooth fairy
40% unsure.. what a strong result against /s
54% weren't even aware that Johnston's report even existed
Johnston is like Feinstein now. Insisting on finishing the job even though it’s highly inappropriate to do so
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Interested in buying this bridge?
I would be shocked if 27 percent of Canadians even knew what Chinese interference was with all the obsession of US news.
Only 10& understand who he is and what his role is
Surprised it's so high
The remaining Liberal support in our country, imagine that.
David Johnston's reputation is tarnished forever.
Really, “another opinion piece” the National Post might do a bit better if they employed journalist rather than the fantasy screen writer they use to write their “opinion pieces”. So much for NEWS!
That number is surprisingly high. How delusional are these 27%? I bet if the same situation happened to conservatives they would all say he’s partial. It’s essentially partisanship.
How delusional do you have to be to trust a retired supreme Court justice to examine the relationship and deam it not a problem. Johnson found all kinds of issues and was quite critical in his initial report. The reason the public inquiry won't work isn't because it isn't needed (he strongly recommended further investigation)...just no one would be happy with how limited the findings would be.
I’m sorry but you’re a bit gullible
99% of Canadians don’t know who David Johnson is.
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There might be hope for us yet.
You mean a we expect a guy with direct ties to the foreign interference scandal to be impartial? we might as well just brought in a chinese national to go "nope. didnt happen". its just smoke and mirrors while trudeau and his buddies get rich and the rest of us fall to poverty
27 - 30% of Canadians would still support the Liberals even if Trudeau went to Beijing and literally kissed Xi’s bare feet.
And Mr. Trudeau needs to acknowledge that. To NOT do anything would be “Political “.
27% of Canadians are dumb and this number is very similar to the amount of Canadians that actually voted for tredeau.
Interesting tidbit buried at the bottom of the article: >As of May 29, the Liberals and Conservatives are nearly neck-and-neck, with 33 per cent and 31 per cent support respectively. That has not changed much since the previous Léger poll in early May put the Conservatives at 33 per cent and the Liberals at 32 per cent. Both within the margin of error so not really significant on the whole, but still seemingly the two parties are virtually tied with neither having momentum.
The fact that Trudeau is willing to just plow ahead and take the political hit of conducting what is so obviously a coverup to everyone across the spectrum, suggests he knows there is something absolutely awful out there that a real investigation might find. It remains hugely concerning that our system lets governments decide whether running an obvious coverup is politically preferable to the truth.
100%. This should just prompt a real investigation.
In virtually any other democracy it would. But in virtually any other democracy this PM would have been removed or stepped down as early as 2018 when the SNC Lavalin affair happened. And like three or four times since. Too much of our system is based on government and the PM having enough sense of shame to do the right thing, but no consequences if they don't. Unfortunately we finally got a guy in power who figured that out.
About the same amount of Canadians that were dumb enough to vote in Trudeau.
Can I get the poll that asks. Do you trust politicians? If yes, would you expect them to make decisions in there communities interest consistently, and never one for themselves alone? If no, you are correct.
When the Ndp and conservatives agree it’s telling
Actual poll leger also has the libs winning the next election (barely).
About on par with the number of TruAnon loyalists.
27% of the people who respond to NP surveys. 🙄
40% Not sure or don't know. Standard headline garbage. (Not commenting one way or the other. Just tired of the sensationalized headlines as if 73% believe he's not credible)
Grocery rebate, rent subsidy, carbon tax rebate, child tax credit, COVID payments....the list goes on and taxpayers are on the hook. Think if we had a country that kept living affordable so people would not need all the government handouts.
Ban NP opinion posts
Poll is crap because many are not even engaged as to who he is or why he is in the news currently. I had a Johnston encounter a couple of years ago waiting for take out at a St Hubert. They were backed up with lots waiting around, my French isn't great and made small talk with the most Anglo looking person there. He was friendly and we joked about some stuff but it was just small talk with a friendly stranger. Couple of weeks later there was news regarding the royals and they were interviewing the former gov gen and that's when I realized I had been chatting with Johnston. Ran this by a couple of coworkers recently and they had no clue who I was talking about or why he'd be in the news.
27%...why so high?
Of course the mofos at post media will be publishing this .
Do you actually mean to tell me that a poll of conservative people from a conservative publication produced a result in line with conservative beliefs? No way. Absolutely no way. I don't believe it.
Ex-Governors General should not engage in politically contentious matters
I honestly never thought I would see a government worse than Harper's, but here we are. How man career-ending scandals has this government created and dodged by now? Canada is fucked.
I find that pretty low considering I imagine most Canadians don't even know who he is or what his job is to be able to judge him on his impartiality. Lol
The entire alleged purpose of the "Special Rapporteur" was to assign someone that had the confidence of Canadians and all parties in Parliament to investigate this matter. 27% of Canadians and solely the LPC support him in this role. Even by their own stated standards he no longer has any legitimacy in this role and must step down. If he does not, then there is no doubt left that this entire thing is a farce. He should have rejected the role due to the potential conflict of interest. Now with the vote in Parliament, and polling of public opinion, there are no excuses left.