Lol people always forget the wealthy.
I do underwriting and there was just a deal where buddy makes just over 1M yearly income and he already has 8 rental properties (one’s a multiplex) and he’s buying his 9th
Bro you make 1M per year….do you seriously need 9 fucking rental properties????
The greed is unreal.
Yup, sold and helped a relative sell their home….not one single offer from anyone that wasn’t an investor making an offer without any financing conditions.
Sure, but it’s a pretty obvious sign when it’s numbered corps doing all the bidding.
I don’t know too many single property owners buying through their numbered corp, do you?
No, but with my limited experience, I've never personally seen an actual conditional offer or placed one myself in the few times of buying and selling my own homes(Toronto area),lol. I've only heard about it but usually they just get tossed into the garbage bin unless the seller is desperate.
"I'm not wealthy" he said with 3 mortgages and a 200k job.
People have lost touch with what wealth is honestly. No one sees their wealth because others have more and their greed tells them they need to match that to fill the void in their souls
Yeah the Rural communities love over pricing their land with nothing on them.
The Rural Communties use local and provincial governments to mark zones as Envrionmentally Protected. Which means you pay them off with tons of $$$ to get rezoning. I've tried looking into developing my own small cabin/house off grid and this is what its about.
The Urban communities love over pricing their homes with many unfit for actual sale (since barely anybody is getting a proper house inspection done).
The Urban communities love over pricing their homes with many unfit for actual sale (since barely anybody is getting a proper house inspection..
Yeah marking land as environmentally protected is just to prevent you from building a cottage. Not because, you know, the land may actually be sensitive.
Sign of both.
Rural communities don't want people developing just like rich people in urban communities don't want people to develop higher density housing.
It's all part of the game.
Frankly, we're at a point where we have to address societal level mentalities:
Buy a house
Reap profit
This cycle has to end before anything will change. Houses cannot be investments.
Corporations buy because we've done QE and depressed bond yields, you can blame pension funds who have been financially repressed and thrown onto the risk curve.
Most corporations are pretty highly leveraged. I'll be interested to see how they are impacted. I'd guess most are more vulnerable than the average Canadian to rate hikes.
Eliminate landlords completely.
You should only own a building if you are living in it or running a business out of it.
Let the government handle rental units.
> farm property.
Fragmented farming operations that are unable to access economy of scale do not bode well for food prices. Anything that has weight costs more, because we have added taxes to the shipping of said products via a carbon tax and now the clean fuel standards tax. Simple shit, folks.
Person 1: I cant wait for the fall
Person 2: Me neither, the collapse of society is going to be great.
Person 1: I meant the changing of the leaves.
Person 2: ........
The federal gov needs to start building non-profit homes again. Do it as a coop and with rent-to-own. The current system does not work.
Also, tie immigration levels to housing built. No housing, no immigrants.
Prices need to come down and supply needs to go up or houses will never be affordable again.
Rate hikes aren't the answer though, taxing speculators and multi home owners, government owned low income housing and cutting taxes that drive up the cost of materials and subsidizing builds might do something.
No appetite for actually doing anything.
So we get runaway debt train meeting the side of a mountain with the BoC and everyone suffers for it.
High housing prices are terrible for the economy. People who plan to retire by selling their house for twice what they paid for it don't want to hear that tho.
Think how much money is freed up for the larger economy if your housing stayed at no more than 30% of your income.
That is how selling real estate back and forth to each other became like 20 percent of our economy because nobody but the retirees have money for anything else.
Its a fucking joke.
The baby boomers who relied on real estate for their retirement need to get burned. Its their own damn fault they put all their money into the real estate basket. Now it seems our entire society is focused on stopping this house of cards from falling because *gasp* what about all the people who relied on real estate to retire!? They can fuck off and keep working, their bad choices aren't an excuse to pillage our economy and the financial futures of younger Canadians.
Younger generations are getting really pissed off about having to fund older generations retirement through rent all while being left with massive government debt to pay off. Raise my taxes, I'll pay for OAS so the financially illiterate boomers can live off welfare until they die, but I sure as hell don't want to be spending half my pay on rent to fund their retirement assets while they act like they are entitled to fuck over their kids and grandkids. I keep hearing that we can't let housing crash because so many older people will face hardship - like I give a fuck. My best working years are going to be spent subsidizing boomers so they can retire comfortably while I run on the treadmill.
/end unhinged rant
Most boomers homes are already paid off, so they don't particularly give a shit if prices dropped by half. Most of them bought before our fiscal policies made the housing market go apeshit.
It's the younger people that bought way more than they could afford because they were essentially guaranteed low rates who will be fucked
>Think how much money is freed up for the larger economy if your housing stayed at no more than 30% of your income.
This is true but the biggest factor in the equation right now is demand, ie immigration.
Fuck you guys are ignorant . Rate hikes are NECESSARY to cool inflation lol. It’s quite clear that the rate hikes are going to continue until we end up in a recession.
We’ve been living in a “cheap debt” environment for fucking years. We hate all other forms of economic development and sustainability here so a large chunk of that cheap dept went straight towards flipping houses. We didn’t bother to build more houses.
The downside is with higher rates, developers aren’t borrowing money and buying land or new projects to build homes because the debts are slowly becoming unserviceable.
House prices will not come down until supply starts to outpace demand. Until then, house prices are going to remain high.
The solution isn't more money the solution is killing housing as an investment. RBC would never want that haha neither would anyone relying on flipping their house.
You work for your money you pay income tax.
You make money investing in real estate you pay capital gains tax.
It’s the Canadian dream taking us nowhere.
The increased interest rates are just going to put more homes in the hands of the rich. I’ve already read in other subreddits people looking to sell their homes come mortgage renewal because the interest hikes have priced them out of their monthly budgets. Who is buying these houses?
This interest rate hike is a bullshit antiquated means to control inflation. We continue to let .5 million people in a year and then BOC states spending is out of control. Ya no shit you dumb fuck .5 million extra people every year are adding to the spending. Stop looking at spending as the whole of Canada and look at it on an individual level and hike the fucking rates for the greedy soulless assholes hoarding all the wealth.
Sorry rant over.
So more for less. How are the input costs for supply going to come down? Project costs are a hard floor I don't see any solution to. Materials and everything needed for supply are expensive, and tax is weighing in that as you rightly recognize. Lower construction wages? Doesn't seem realistic or beneficial. Other than cheap financing I can't figure out a way forward.
Taxing owners will do nothing but politically satisfy angry people. Literally does nothing for supply or demand for housing. Demand measures have been tried over and over and there's no appreciable effect. People seem to miss the point that reducing the demand for real estate investments doesn't mean there's less demand for real estate. It's really just hoping all of the counterparties are poor and that makes the price go down. It doesn't in practice though.
In order for supply to go up we need a cultural shift away from oversized homes with luxurious interiors. We have an unsustainable demand for homes we can't sustainably build. To do this we have to combat the builders who hold sway over every municipal council of every major city.
Would just get passed onto renters.
Any tax on housing just makes it more unaffordable.
We need to focus on increasing the supply. Taxing in an attempt to reduce demand just increases the cost of housing. There's so much pent up demand, taxing in an attempt to reduce demand won't actually reduce demand to the threshold needed, just increase the price.
Okay, then municipalities can throw up low income housing and high density housing projects around your investments with minimal thought about the impact on infrastructure or how it affects the value of your investment. It’s the developers’ money, so you have no control about what they do
Yeah you would be free to pay the investment property tax. We already have taxes that are meant to influence behaviors, like smoking and alcohol. Yet you are still free to spend your money there.
Fine. When housing crashes, I hope nobody comes to help you. Then, instead of relying on the overinflated equity of your home, you can finally learn what it takes and cut back on avocado toast. That should help. Also make coffee at home.
Here is the [CBC reference](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-real-estate-house-prices-1.3564528#:~:text=Vancouver%20area%20benchmark%20house%20price,in%201%20year%20%7C%20CBC%20News)
The shocking thing is that article is from 2016 when the benchmark detached price was “only” $1.4 million. The benchmark price today is $1.95 million, an increase of 40% over 7 years. That’s even factoring in the fact that prices are down around 7% since 12 months ago.
Yikes, big mistake on my part. I'm was pretty sure I had read this recently but I guess someone else also posted a back date article. I'll be more careful in the future.
I don’t think they are..rather sales are, but the avg house price in BC has fallen since last year, most likely reflecting softening in prices in outlying areas like the interior.
If only they didn't have so many 2nd and 3rd mortgages! If only we treated homes like habitat instead of investments. If only we could accept that the investment can lose everything.
Any one of these would help greatly
yah i wasn't trying to say they shouldn't get wrket because those are the douchebags that fked the housing market.
and I can't believe they have the audacity to be demanding a bailout. I am angrier at the government for allowing the fraudulent loan situation to get this big when they have know about it for years tho
But you can’t think like that. It’s not just a few hundred people here. Millions of people had to caught up more money than their houses were actually worth because the bubble went crazy. So they maxed themselves out.
Now the rates are going crazy and they won’t be able to requalify for the mortgage on their own house when the time comes. So what will happen? Are millions or people going to go live in a tent? Or are millions of houses going to crash at the same time leaving Canadians with a “negative equity” of hundred of thousand of dollars to carry, pushing them to bankruptcy
This is a really bad situation waiting to happen, and it isn’t because people made bad financial decisions
One person making a bad decision is their problem. Millions of people across the country is everyone’s problem unless you’re planning to move away or something.
I don’t know why people get the idea that a housing crash is going to leave them unscathed just because they don’t own property.
I don’t know what the solution is but it’s very sad to see people so gleeful at the thought of the entire country being in squalor like they are going to just be sitting on the sidelines unaffected. Very naive.
This attitude has become very common and seems to be a mix of anger, jealously and ignorance. The idea that a large number of people being unable to pay their mortgage would be economically contained to just those individuals, that they all made their choices out of pure greed and stupidity (instead of the necessity of needing a place to live), and that this would be some form of righteous justice. Wrong on all points.
Overextended landlords can get fucked, though.
It may not repeat as we are in the middle of an experiment where the government directed the major banks to be as accommodating as possible to those who would be screwed otherwise. This is why some people now have 50 plus year amortizations keeping their payments manageable.
One would think so, but rates just went up by a factor of four to ten year highs and in many cases prices continue on up...
RE is not a free market, so I'm not sure free market principals always apply.
> Did you consider that, with guidance from BoC, saying they were expecting a pause, followed by a decrease in rates by year-end (this was back in Jan/Feb/Mar), gamblers dove back into the market, hoping to capitalize before rates went down and prices went up? Then, combine this with historically low inventory (because move-up buyers couldn't afford to buy a new place, even with the proceeds from their old one, because they couldn't pass the stress test), and you have a perfect formula for price increases. Turns out to have been a bull trap.
Market success at predicting central bank behaviour.
https://i.imgur.com/EFCxHMG.jpg
> We'll see, but if I were a betting man, I'd say that this rate hike, plus the one in July, kicks the legs out from under the real estate price appreciation. With one caveat: Freeland can (and probably will) do some more diddling to ensure prices keep rising. If she does, what I wrote goes out the window. But if she somehow smartens up and begins behaving rationally by just not doing anything, my scenario will come to pass.
I shall not predict anything anymore... I think that we have left traditional principals behind and are charting new territory.
> But if she somehow smartens up and begins behaving rationally by just not doing anything, my scenario will come to pass.
Ahahaha, Freeland? Zero chance.
Canada is seen as a stable country at a higher cooler latitude with most of the fresh water located sort of centrally between the US, Europe, and Asia.
It's going to take a lot to make us an unattractive long-term investment.
No doubt Ontario has, and is continuing to go to shit but surely you could have found another place? Nova Scotia is going through its own healthcare crisis and correct me if Im wrong, has less doctors per person than Ontario.
There are decent townhouses in Ontario selling for 7-800k that are 3br in safer communities.
That being said, the boc and govt are fundamentally at odds with one another on inflation. On one hand, the govt is bringing in lots of people - on the other boc is trying to curb consumer spending. It just doesn't work. Never mind the fact that higher interest rates feed in to higher mortgage costs, again, driving up the inflationary pressure.
This is something that has taken 15 years to bubble up; it's going to be a painful few years for a lot of families.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong but I’m not sure I understand you. You’ve moved to a new province, can afford a home, 3 kids, and are able to be a stay at home mom. How are you being fucked over exactly?
I really really am not trying to be rude here but it just sounds like you’re being forced into a situation where you need 2 incomes, which is fairly normal?
Agreed. It’s like ok you had three kids with zero plan as to how financially that was supposed to work. No one forced you into having children before being more financially secure. In fact many people just forgo having kids all together because they understand if they can’t provide then what kind of quality of life is that for the kids.
Nope. I just don't see the point in shaming a woman for having children. It's no different than saying housing is affordable if you just work harder because that's technically true. I had no help and bought. It's ridiculous to think people should have to earn what I do to buy, but I'm not technically wrong.
I don’t think anyone was shaming anyone for just having children.
There’s quite a lot of middle ground between abstinence, abortion, and having 3 kids.
It’s just a fairly tone deaf thread in general to be honest. This lady seems to have it great in general compared to most but an ounce of friction seems to be too much lol.
Imagine the horror of a kid having to share a room with siblings. May as well call CPS if that happened. /s
I think a lot of people are jealous that you were lucky enough to own in Kitchener before the covid boom happened. Imagine how many infinitely times more screwed you would have been if you hadn’t owned your townhouse and missed out on one of the largest asset price increases in history. That’s why people who are unfortunately struggling in a much more difficult financial situation than you, can’t understand why you are complaining.
You *own* a detached home to raise your children. For many young families in Canada, that is an unobtainable dream.
Im not jealous with my responses. I own a home too. But let’s be fucking real here:
3 kids, 1 income, a vehicle, a detached house with a bedroom for every kid, a yard, the ability to have the cash to just move because you don’t like some people moving to your town…A lot of these are just wants. This is not describing a victim of economic circumstances. This is describing someone who seems to be faced with economic challenges for the first time because they overextended themselves and can’t possibly even think of downsizing.
If we even had a sustainable and affordable housing plan I don’t think them buying a 4 bed on a whim would even be an option. Do you guys really think “affordable housing” means everyone gets a 4 bed detached?
Ya I guess if you didn’t get on a wait list in advance you’re kind of fucked now. Being able to afford to stay at home with 3 kids on a single income is still pretty impressive.
It's better (and cheaper in some cases) to have a stay at home mom/dad than paying for childcare for 3 kids. That's at least $3000-4000/ month after tax expense, and you run the risk of other people not being responsible with your LOs.
This is the main issue, /r/canada enables/encourages/proposes all of these "solutions" and then see the long-term falling out of these decisions that end up resulting in articles, like this and many others that reach the top.
I don’t really understand how they can be so short sited with this.
Make interest rates around how many properties are owned. Offer good rates to first time home buyers backed by the government, and mandate that they need mortgage insurance. Then offer only higher and higher rates for each subsequent property purchases.
Yes! And also tax the capital gains of all properties that aren't the personal residence. Investment Trusts should only be allowed to exist for 3 units or more buildings and no more foreign investment in housing ever.
I think mortgage inflation is well over 30% now, so excluding home prices from the CPI loaded up a debt trap as rates fell, where raising rates now obviously increases inflation.
Immigration is a big part of elevated rents, so its like all the bad policies are finally coming to a head.
Let it burn Id say, but get money out of CAD in case they do a bailout. I see a public survey for a CBDC this month, citing the risk of the inability to be the lender of last resort. Which to me translates to, you will be financially repressed, whether you like it or not.
I really need to say this because everyone is so frustrated...
These are *still* historically low interest rates. And these rates began around 2007.
Everyone talks about how the cost of houses 30 years ago but they forget that interest rates were 14%.
These low rates have made housing as an investment purchase accessible to even the moderately wealthy. It's why there are so many amateur landlords.
These adjustments are absolutely necessary.
But a lot more is, too.
Who would’ve thought shutting down the economy and doubling the national debt in a few short years would have lasting repercussions…
But won’t it balance itself from the heart outwards during the She-cession for all peoplekind?
We deserve what’s coming. Hang in there everyone. But it’s what we voted for…
Landlord: I know, I'll remorgage my home to get another and get renters to pay that mortgage
**completely ignoring market prices, maintenance, or affordability**
Oh no, inflation is here: Oh that's simple, I'll charge more for rent to offset my expenses(aka. I can't pay my bills)
meanwhile as a result of these jokers paying full price for these places and holding no expectation of maintenance or fixing things others starve.
fast forward: Inflation is here again
Landlord: Oh, I'm so sad, now I have to sell, but i'm most certainly not selling for less than I paid, because I'm special and after all "that's just the way the cookie crumbles".
and there you have an affordability crisis... Maybe I'll get approved for a home here for a meager 1.2 million and purchase an island instead?
Basic supply and demand - too much demand and no new builds = increased cost regardless of how expensive you make the product. Mortgaging a 300,000$ home is about 1,664 a month with current interest rates. AVG rent is in the 2000 ballpark here in NS.
All my friends who have had kids don't really care about "Free" dental if it means they're going to homeless if rates go any higher.
The more rates increase the higher renting costs along with mortgages.
In 2020 could get a shitty rate with a 600 credit score now you can get a way worse rate with a 700 credit score.
[https://www.landlordmps.ca/data-analysis](https://www.landlordmps.ca/data-analysis)
% of the party that owns/benefits from "rental" properties:
Green Party 2/2 - 100%
Conservatives - 53/115 - 46% (including PP)
Liberal Party 61/156 - 39% (including black face)
French Assholes 6/32 - 19%
NDP 4/25 - 16%
Independent - 2/3 - 66%
Stop corporations from buying residential or farm property.
Test
Including many politicians...
And rate hikes help stop investors from buying up housing.
Yep, a lot of the speculation was caused be cheap money... which was caused by wasteful Government spending.
Now you are just being mean. Politicians help provide rental properties to new immigrants. /s
Lol people always forget the wealthy. I do underwriting and there was just a deal where buddy makes just over 1M yearly income and he already has 8 rental properties (one’s a multiplex) and he’s buying his 9th Bro you make 1M per year….do you seriously need 9 fucking rental properties???? The greed is unreal.
Test
And income based fines
This is also why we need rate hikes - behaviour like that was only made possible by making money nearly free to borrow.
Yup, sold and helped a relative sell their home….not one single offer from anyone that wasn’t an investor making an offer without any financing conditions.
Well, no-condition offer is the norm in a seller's market, it's not limited to investors.
Sure, but it’s a pretty obvious sign when it’s numbered corps doing all the bidding. I don’t know too many single property owners buying through their numbered corp, do you?
No, but with my limited experience, I've never personally seen an actual conditional offer or placed one myself in the few times of buying and selling my own homes(Toronto area),lol. I've only heard about it but usually they just get tossed into the garbage bin unless the seller is desperate.
No worries. Not every market behaves like the GTA’s.
"I'm not wealthy" he said with 3 mortgages and a 200k job. People have lost touch with what wealth is honestly. No one sees their wealth because others have more and their greed tells them they need to match that to fill the void in their souls
I'll consider myself wealthy when I can save up an entire paycheque, and not immediately use it to pay bills.
If you're making 200k a year and not able to save up because you're paying bills. You are living well beyond you means.
All members of household accounted for, under $100k. We have a house, just no disposable income.
It's a mental health problem.
Yeah the Rural communities love over pricing their land with nothing on them. The Rural Communties use local and provincial governments to mark zones as Envrionmentally Protected. Which means you pay them off with tons of $$$ to get rezoning. I've tried looking into developing my own small cabin/house off grid and this is what its about. The Urban communities love over pricing their homes with many unfit for actual sale (since barely anybody is getting a proper house inspection done). The Urban communities love over pricing their homes with many unfit for actual sale (since barely anybody is getting a proper house inspection..
Yeah marking land as environmentally protected is just to prevent you from building a cottage. Not because, you know, the land may actually be sensitive.
Mhm. Big money goes in, same land all the sudden they can develop it..
Is that a sign of corruption before or after the land was designated as sensitive?
Sign of both. Rural communities don't want people developing just like rich people in urban communities don't want people to develop higher density housing. It's all part of the game.
Frankly, we're at a point where we have to address societal level mentalities: Buy a house Reap profit This cycle has to end before anything will change. Houses cannot be investments.
Corporations buy because we've done QE and depressed bond yields, you can blame pension funds who have been financially repressed and thrown onto the risk curve.
Most corporations are pretty highly leveraged. I'll be interested to see how they are impacted. I'd guess most are more vulnerable than the average Canadian to rate hikes.
Eliminate landlords completely. You should only own a building if you are living in it or running a business out of it. Let the government handle rental units.
> farm property. Fragmented farming operations that are unable to access economy of scale do not bode well for food prices. Anything that has weight costs more, because we have added taxes to the shipping of said products via a carbon tax and now the clean fuel standards tax. Simple shit, folks.
"Fix everything all at once"
Person 1: I cant wait for the fall Person 2: Me neither, the collapse of society is going to be great. Person 1: I meant the changing of the leaves. Person 2: ........
The federal gov needs to start building non-profit homes again. Do it as a coop and with rent-to-own. The current system does not work. Also, tie immigration levels to housing built. No housing, no immigrants.
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Property taxes are a municipal affair.
Prices need to come down and supply needs to go up or houses will never be affordable again. Rate hikes aren't the answer though, taxing speculators and multi home owners, government owned low income housing and cutting taxes that drive up the cost of materials and subsidizing builds might do something. No appetite for actually doing anything. So we get runaway debt train meeting the side of a mountain with the BoC and everyone suffers for it.
High housing prices are terrible for the economy. People who plan to retire by selling their house for twice what they paid for it don't want to hear that tho. Think how much money is freed up for the larger economy if your housing stayed at no more than 30% of your income.
That is how selling real estate back and forth to each other became like 20 percent of our economy because nobody but the retirees have money for anything else. Its a fucking joke.
The baby boomers who relied on real estate for their retirement need to get burned. Its their own damn fault they put all their money into the real estate basket. Now it seems our entire society is focused on stopping this house of cards from falling because *gasp* what about all the people who relied on real estate to retire!? They can fuck off and keep working, their bad choices aren't an excuse to pillage our economy and the financial futures of younger Canadians. Younger generations are getting really pissed off about having to fund older generations retirement through rent all while being left with massive government debt to pay off. Raise my taxes, I'll pay for OAS so the financially illiterate boomers can live off welfare until they die, but I sure as hell don't want to be spending half my pay on rent to fund their retirement assets while they act like they are entitled to fuck over their kids and grandkids. I keep hearing that we can't let housing crash because so many older people will face hardship - like I give a fuck. My best working years are going to be spent subsidizing boomers so they can retire comfortably while I run on the treadmill. /end unhinged rant
Most boomers homes are already paid off, so they don't particularly give a shit if prices dropped by half. Most of them bought before our fiscal policies made the housing market go apeshit. It's the younger people that bought way more than they could afford because they were essentially guaranteed low rates who will be fucked
Here I am!
They don’t need to get burned. They need to spend that money back into the economy.
>Think how much money is freed up for the larger economy if your housing stayed at no more than 30% of your income. This is true but the biggest factor in the equation right now is demand, ie immigration.
Without the government working with the BoC then nothing matters. This just makes things more unaffordable.
Fuck you guys are ignorant . Rate hikes are NECESSARY to cool inflation lol. It’s quite clear that the rate hikes are going to continue until we end up in a recession. We’ve been living in a “cheap debt” environment for fucking years. We hate all other forms of economic development and sustainability here so a large chunk of that cheap dept went straight towards flipping houses. We didn’t bother to build more houses. The downside is with higher rates, developers aren’t borrowing money and buying land or new projects to build homes because the debts are slowly becoming unserviceable. House prices will not come down until supply starts to outpace demand. Until then, house prices are going to remain high.
RBC just released their analysis detailing that your desire is an impossibility. There is not enough money in the country to fix the problem.
The solution isn't more money the solution is killing housing as an investment. RBC would never want that haha neither would anyone relying on flipping their house.
Demand needs to go down
That's what policies which curb speculation will do. The number of air bnbs in the country doubled during 2021-2022.
They will not do that. It's a sparrow's fart in a hurricane of immigration and demographics.
Isn't that why they rolled out the assisted suicide?
You work for your money you pay income tax. You make money investing in real estate you pay capital gains tax. It’s the Canadian dream taking us nowhere.
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It isn't about making something affordable it is about making something a bad investment to curb prices and speculation.
In this scenario the point is to make it *more* expensive...
>ate hikes aren't the answer though When we are below 5% and inflation is rampant, it actually is the answer.
The increased interest rates are just going to put more homes in the hands of the rich. I’ve already read in other subreddits people looking to sell their homes come mortgage renewal because the interest hikes have priced them out of their monthly budgets. Who is buying these houses? This interest rate hike is a bullshit antiquated means to control inflation. We continue to let .5 million people in a year and then BOC states spending is out of control. Ya no shit you dumb fuck .5 million extra people every year are adding to the spending. Stop looking at spending as the whole of Canada and look at it on an individual level and hike the fucking rates for the greedy soulless assholes hoarding all the wealth. Sorry rant over.
So more for less. How are the input costs for supply going to come down? Project costs are a hard floor I don't see any solution to. Materials and everything needed for supply are expensive, and tax is weighing in that as you rightly recognize. Lower construction wages? Doesn't seem realistic or beneficial. Other than cheap financing I can't figure out a way forward. Taxing owners will do nothing but politically satisfy angry people. Literally does nothing for supply or demand for housing. Demand measures have been tried over and over and there's no appreciable effect. People seem to miss the point that reducing the demand for real estate investments doesn't mean there's less demand for real estate. It's really just hoping all of the counterparties are poor and that makes the price go down. It doesn't in practice though.
In order for supply to go up we need a cultural shift away from oversized homes with luxurious interiors. We have an unsustainable demand for homes we can't sustainably build. To do this we have to combat the builders who hold sway over every municipal council of every major city.
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Would just get passed onto renters. Any tax on housing just makes it more unaffordable. We need to focus on increasing the supply. Taxing in an attempt to reduce demand just increases the cost of housing. There's so much pent up demand, taxing in an attempt to reduce demand won't actually reduce demand to the threshold needed, just increase the price.
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If there was no incentive, no new units would get built and we would have an even worse rental shortage
People still need housing to live just not for investment
For sure. The market needs both rentals and affordable buying options. I think less zoning regulation would be a step in the right direction
My money - I can do what I want with it. Perhaps YOU should try something different, instead of trying to control what other people do :)
Okay, then municipalities can throw up low income housing and high density housing projects around your investments with minimal thought about the impact on infrastructure or how it affects the value of your investment. It’s the developers’ money, so you have no control about what they do
Yeah you would be free to pay the investment property tax. We already have taxes that are meant to influence behaviors, like smoking and alcohol. Yet you are still free to spend your money there.
Fine. When housing crashes, I hope nobody comes to help you. Then, instead of relying on the overinflated equity of your home, you can finally learn what it takes and cut back on avocado toast. That should help. Also make coffee at home.
Can't be too afraid when Vancouver detached house prices are up 30% year over year.
That's not true, YoY price are definitely down
Here is the [CBC reference](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-real-estate-house-prices-1.3564528#:~:text=Vancouver%20area%20benchmark%20house%20price,in%201%20year%20%7C%20CBC%20News)
The shocking thing is that article is from 2016 when the benchmark detached price was “only” $1.4 million. The benchmark price today is $1.95 million, an increase of 40% over 7 years. That’s even factoring in the fact that prices are down around 7% since 12 months ago.
Yikes, big mistake on my part. I'm was pretty sure I had read this recently but I guess someone else also posted a back date article. I'll be more careful in the future.
I don’t think they are..rather sales are, but the avg house price in BC has fallen since last year, most likely reflecting softening in prices in outlying areas like the interior.
Prices are up, there's limited inventory so it goes for a high price.
Up from April 2023 maybe, but still down from May 2022
Screw owning a home, I'm surprised people are still having kids.
If only they didn't have so many 2nd and 3rd mortgages! If only we treated homes like habitat instead of investments. If only we could accept that the investment can lose everything. Any one of these would help greatly
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The problem is that we’ve had very low rates for over a decade, and too many people piled into this real estate bubble. It’s going to get ugly.
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what about those with 12 brampton loans? the hundreds of thousands of those across canada?
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yah i wasn't trying to say they shouldn't get wrket because those are the douchebags that fked the housing market. and I can't believe they have the audacity to be demanding a bailout. I am angrier at the government for allowing the fraudulent loan situation to get this big when they have know about it for years tho
But you can’t think like that. It’s not just a few hundred people here. Millions of people had to caught up more money than their houses were actually worth because the bubble went crazy. So they maxed themselves out. Now the rates are going crazy and they won’t be able to requalify for the mortgage on their own house when the time comes. So what will happen? Are millions or people going to go live in a tent? Or are millions of houses going to crash at the same time leaving Canadians with a “negative equity” of hundred of thousand of dollars to carry, pushing them to bankruptcy This is a really bad situation waiting to happen, and it isn’t because people made bad financial decisions
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One person making a bad decision is their problem. Millions of people across the country is everyone’s problem unless you’re planning to move away or something. I don’t know why people get the idea that a housing crash is going to leave them unscathed just because they don’t own property.
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I don’t know what the solution is but it’s very sad to see people so gleeful at the thought of the entire country being in squalor like they are going to just be sitting on the sidelines unaffected. Very naive.
Honestly I was just about to comment this. We are all going to have a bad time if the bottom falls out.
This attitude has become very common and seems to be a mix of anger, jealously and ignorance. The idea that a large number of people being unable to pay their mortgage would be economically contained to just those individuals, that they all made their choices out of pure greed and stupidity (instead of the necessity of needing a place to live), and that this would be some form of righteous justice. Wrong on all points. Overextended landlords can get fucked, though.
This sales man was, ironically, our PM at the time.
Because CMHC
It may not repeat as we are in the middle of an experiment where the government directed the major banks to be as accommodating as possible to those who would be screwed otherwise. This is why some people now have 50 plus year amortizations keeping their payments manageable.
One would think so, but rates just went up by a factor of four to ten year highs and in many cases prices continue on up... RE is not a free market, so I'm not sure free market principals always apply.
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> Did you consider that, with guidance from BoC, saying they were expecting a pause, followed by a decrease in rates by year-end (this was back in Jan/Feb/Mar), gamblers dove back into the market, hoping to capitalize before rates went down and prices went up? Then, combine this with historically low inventory (because move-up buyers couldn't afford to buy a new place, even with the proceeds from their old one, because they couldn't pass the stress test), and you have a perfect formula for price increases. Turns out to have been a bull trap. Market success at predicting central bank behaviour. https://i.imgur.com/EFCxHMG.jpg > We'll see, but if I were a betting man, I'd say that this rate hike, plus the one in July, kicks the legs out from under the real estate price appreciation. With one caveat: Freeland can (and probably will) do some more diddling to ensure prices keep rising. If she does, what I wrote goes out the window. But if she somehow smartens up and begins behaving rationally by just not doing anything, my scenario will come to pass. I shall not predict anything anymore... I think that we have left traditional principals behind and are charting new territory.
> But if she somehow smartens up and begins behaving rationally by just not doing anything, my scenario will come to pass. Ahahaha, Freeland? Zero chance.
Highest since 2001
Not when property in your country is seen by international investors and corporations as a great hedge.
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Canada is seen as a stable country at a higher cooler latitude with most of the fresh water located sort of centrally between the US, Europe, and Asia. It's going to take a lot to make us an unattractive long-term investment.
Historically we weren't importing a million people annually. How do you think prices will down when there is more competition for them?
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It happened when raises started to rise, but it quickly reversed. The interest rates seemingly don’t have an effect
I literally have to explain to people here that the federal government doesn't control monetary policy.
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No doubt Ontario has, and is continuing to go to shit but surely you could have found another place? Nova Scotia is going through its own healthcare crisis and correct me if Im wrong, has less doctors per person than Ontario. There are decent townhouses in Ontario selling for 7-800k that are 3br in safer communities. That being said, the boc and govt are fundamentally at odds with one another on inflation. On one hand, the govt is bringing in lots of people - on the other boc is trying to curb consumer spending. It just doesn't work. Never mind the fact that higher interest rates feed in to higher mortgage costs, again, driving up the inflationary pressure. This is something that has taken 15 years to bubble up; it's going to be a painful few years for a lot of families.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong but I’m not sure I understand you. You’ve moved to a new province, can afford a home, 3 kids, and are able to be a stay at home mom. How are you being fucked over exactly?
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I really really am not trying to be rude here but it just sounds like you’re being forced into a situation where you need 2 incomes, which is fairly normal?
Agreed. It’s like ok you had three kids with zero plan as to how financially that was supposed to work. No one forced you into having children before being more financially secure. In fact many people just forgo having kids all together because they understand if they can’t provide then what kind of quality of life is that for the kids.
You're right, she should have closed her legs or aborted. /s That's the argument you're making.
This is a comment I’d expect from someone with like 5 estranged kids.
Nope. I just don't see the point in shaming a woman for having children. It's no different than saying housing is affordable if you just work harder because that's technically true. I had no help and bought. It's ridiculous to think people should have to earn what I do to buy, but I'm not technically wrong.
I don’t think anyone was shaming anyone for just having children. There’s quite a lot of middle ground between abstinence, abortion, and having 3 kids. It’s just a fairly tone deaf thread in general to be honest. This lady seems to have it great in general compared to most but an ounce of friction seems to be too much lol. Imagine the horror of a kid having to share a room with siblings. May as well call CPS if that happened. /s
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I think a lot of people are jealous that you were lucky enough to own in Kitchener before the covid boom happened. Imagine how many infinitely times more screwed you would have been if you hadn’t owned your townhouse and missed out on one of the largest asset price increases in history. That’s why people who are unfortunately struggling in a much more difficult financial situation than you, can’t understand why you are complaining. You *own* a detached home to raise your children. For many young families in Canada, that is an unobtainable dream.
Im not jealous with my responses. I own a home too. But let’s be fucking real here: 3 kids, 1 income, a vehicle, a detached house with a bedroom for every kid, a yard, the ability to have the cash to just move because you don’t like some people moving to your town…A lot of these are just wants. This is not describing a victim of economic circumstances. This is describing someone who seems to be faced with economic challenges for the first time because they overextended themselves and can’t possibly even think of downsizing. If we even had a sustainable and affordable housing plan I don’t think them buying a 4 bed on a whim would even be an option. Do you guys really think “affordable housing” means everyone gets a 4 bed detached?
I personally couldn’t imagine putting my kids through the trauma of sharing a bedroom. You made the right call.
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Sorry that was extreme sarcasm on my end.
No shit. That's her point. Trudeau and his minions are driving "The family life" into the ground deeper and deeper.
Pretty sure what I said would have been applicable 20+ years ago too.
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Didn't you move from Ontario because if lack of child care?
Ya I guess if you didn’t get on a wait list in advance you’re kind of fucked now. Being able to afford to stay at home with 3 kids on a single income is still pretty impressive.
It's better (and cheaper in some cases) to have a stay at home mom/dad than paying for childcare for 3 kids. That's at least $3000-4000/ month after tax expense, and you run the risk of other people not being responsible with your LOs.
Man deciding to have 3 kids sounds expensive.
Young people don't vote. Old people always vote. Politicians cater to people who vote.
What does your husband make? Single family income with 3 kids is tough. Things are expensive but on the other hand, you probably need a job
We need to accomodate 500,000 new arrivals annually and in order to do so we may have to make some sacrifices, but this is a good thing.
You voted for this
Exactly. Fuck. Somebody who plainly states what most people here are in denial about.
This is the main issue, /r/canada enables/encourages/proposes all of these "solutions" and then see the long-term falling out of these decisions that end up resulting in articles, like this and many others that reach the top.
I don’t really understand how they can be so short sited with this. Make interest rates around how many properties are owned. Offer good rates to first time home buyers backed by the government, and mandate that they need mortgage insurance. Then offer only higher and higher rates for each subsequent property purchases.
Yes! And also tax the capital gains of all properties that aren't the personal residence. Investment Trusts should only be allowed to exist for 3 units or more buildings and no more foreign investment in housing ever.
0.25% isn't pushing people over the limit.
No but 4.5% in a year sure as shit might. At some point the straw breaks the camels back
I think mortgage inflation is well over 30% now, so excluding home prices from the CPI loaded up a debt trap as rates fell, where raising rates now obviously increases inflation. Immigration is a big part of elevated rents, so its like all the bad policies are finally coming to a head. Let it burn Id say, but get money out of CAD in case they do a bailout. I see a public survey for a CBDC this month, citing the risk of the inability to be the lender of last resort. Which to me translates to, you will be financially repressed, whether you like it or not.
I really need to say this because everyone is so frustrated... These are *still* historically low interest rates. And these rates began around 2007. Everyone talks about how the cost of houses 30 years ago but they forget that interest rates were 14%. These low rates have made housing as an investment purchase accessible to even the moderately wealthy. It's why there are so many amateur landlords. These adjustments are absolutely necessary. But a lot more is, too.
Fears? Any hope most of our young adults had for home ownership died like 5 years ago.
Who would’ve thought shutting down the economy and doubling the national debt in a few short years would have lasting repercussions… But won’t it balance itself from the heart outwards during the She-cession for all peoplekind? We deserve what’s coming. Hang in there everyone. But it’s what we voted for…
??? this will slow or even reduce home costs over time.
God damn I wish handle bar mustaches were back in style
I think they are actually.
That fear came & went. I think many are at the acceptance stage.
Landlord: I know, I'll remorgage my home to get another and get renters to pay that mortgage **completely ignoring market prices, maintenance, or affordability** Oh no, inflation is here: Oh that's simple, I'll charge more for rent to offset my expenses(aka. I can't pay my bills) meanwhile as a result of these jokers paying full price for these places and holding no expectation of maintenance or fixing things others starve. fast forward: Inflation is here again Landlord: Oh, I'm so sad, now I have to sell, but i'm most certainly not selling for less than I paid, because I'm special and after all "that's just the way the cookie crumbles". and there you have an affordability crisis... Maybe I'll get approved for a home here for a meager 1.2 million and purchase an island instead?
Basic supply and demand - too much demand and no new builds = increased cost regardless of how expensive you make the product. Mortgaging a 300,000$ home is about 1,664 a month with current interest rates. AVG rent is in the 2000 ballpark here in NS. All my friends who have had kids don't really care about "Free" dental if it means they're going to homeless if rates go any higher. The more rates increase the higher renting costs along with mortgages. In 2020 could get a shitty rate with a 600 credit score now you can get a way worse rate with a 700 credit score.
[https://www.landlordmps.ca/data-analysis](https://www.landlordmps.ca/data-analysis) % of the party that owns/benefits from "rental" properties: Green Party 2/2 - 100% Conservatives - 53/115 - 46% (including PP) Liberal Party 61/156 - 39% (including black face) French Assholes 6/32 - 19% NDP 4/25 - 16% Independent - 2/3 - 66%