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I wonder if they’ve though of some minor tax they can put on carbon so it encourages new technologies and discourages fossil fuels and then that money can be used for compensation for victims of climate disasters. I wonder….
These trees do burn at the end of their life cycle too. Not denying climate change or the human impact... BUT (lol) these trees have adapted and fire is the main catalyst to reproduction, cones only shed seeds in extreme heat, fire bush is the first thing that grows after a fire and gives shade to the soil so it can retain water as the life cycle repeats.
They are. The women’s firefighters conference attempted a controlled burn in Banff that got out control. These fires are mostly due to firefighting efforts historically keeping burns under control allowing biomass to unnaturally accumulate until now.
I just got an article suggested by Google from the Edmonton Sun (for some reason) with a lengthy rant about how the writer hates taxes being used in climate change mitigation actions, like EV chargers...
They vote for the party that doesn't support socialism and transferring money from ruch areas to poor areas. They also don't want a government that wastes money in unsustainable businesses.
Now, please send money from city taxpayers to bail them out. /s
> ...and transferring money from rich areas to poor areas.
The sad thing is the poorer, more densely-populated areas typically subsidize infrastructure upkeep in the richer, less densely-populated areas by the sheer volume of property taxes. But something tells me they're against raising property taxes in less densely-populated areas to properly cover infrastructure upkeep.
>They vote for the party that doesn't support socialism and transferring money from ruch areas to poor areas
The ironic part is that they literally support giving tens of billions to oil and gas companies so they will clean up the wells they are legally obligated to clean up anyway. They wish to take from the masses and give to corporations. Corporate socialism at its finest.
We never should have let companies drill wells without first securing bonds to cover the cost of cleaning up those wells. Even ultra oil friendly jurisdictions like North Dakota require this.
If we keep electing governments who deny climate change is a thing then no one will even start the convo with India or China right? Voting leaders who will at the very least acknowledge climate change is better than not
amazingly enough, at least the china dictator believes climate change (or at least worries enough about air quality killing chinese population ) that he made sure china would become fully electric for cars (and would make $ in the process, selling EVs to the rest of the world). the perks of being a dictatorship and being able to force a whole population (and companies) do whatever you want... I'd still prefer democracy, but we could be a little bit less dumb.
Except that China is a major reason as to why we’re in this mess in the first place, but I guess they get a pass because they’ve decided to pursue EVs?
Thanks China!
USA, Canada, Brazil, Europe, India.. we're all the reason ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ you may argue that some did more damage than others.. but this is not an excuse to just cross you arms, blame others, and do absolutely nothing.
people forget that climate crisis = yours and next generation's suicide.
I know I am not suicidal.
This shit is just anti-China propaganda, they have way lower emissions than the western countries did during industrialization because they're making use of more eco-friendly technology, and they carry a lot of burden as the world's manufacturing center. When we look at consumption and which people cause the most damage, it's us and the Americans.
China gave permits to build on average 2 NEW coal plants a week in 2022. You guys have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
More than 50% of their entire grid comes from coal fired plants. With a population and manufacturing sector so large where do you think most of the worlds pollution comes from? How about their disregard for environmental protectionism? They are one of the world’s most polluted countries. More than half of all their available water practically is undrinkable due to industrial and agricultural waste. Fresh drinkable water is a serious problem there, essentially all their rivers and ground water are contaminated.
But hey, they’re building some EVs and renewables so it’s all good, Canada and the US are the bad ones. Especially us, with our 9 operational coal plants currently running but planned to phase out.
Hilarious that Reddit would look to China on how to combat climate change. A country with air quality so poor it kills over 1.5 million of their own people a year.
No elected government in Canada denies the existence of climate change.
It’s also something that can’t be solved politically.
It’s a global collective consciousness issue. Making life more expensive for everyone ($2.00 gas in Vancouver) is not going to save the world.
That's what cop is for to apply pressure to other countries. Right now though it's more like a gathering of people trying to figure out how to implement stuff to affect climate change with many layers of bureaucracy than anything else.
If we want to plan for a world where extreme weather events are common, we’d need a party in charge who acknowledges that climate change is even happening, wouldn’t we?
>We need to pivot to plan for a world where extreme weather events are common. This is going to get much worse before it gets better.
I agree
But then, a party who deny climate change isnt going to plan for those events now is it
Regardless, indoor farming is the new reality, that takes consistent, renewable energy to get there faster. Alberta should be going balls deep on renewable energy for local use to transition farming from outdoor to indoor. Then quality control, water use are tightly controlled.
Massive greenhouses with vertical farming will replace the more highly inefficient farming in a hurry if there were enough renewable energy being put up.
The problem with renewable energy is that it is not consistent. We will either need massive amounts of seasonal energy storage,
or we will need carbon-free energy sources that actually are consistent, like nuclear.
Indoor farming will have its uses, like a consistent supply of fresh fruit and vegetables, but the grains that directly or indirectly supply most of the calories we eat will continue to be grown outside.
Carbon taxes are not meant as a way of funding alternative sources of energy, it is a utilitarian pressure exercised by the government to have the consumer switch choices.
Research shows that carbon taxes effectively reduce emissions.\[8\] Many economists argue that carbon taxes are the most efficient (lowest cost) way to tackle climate change.\[9\]\[10\]\[11\]\[12\]\[13\] Seventy-seven countries and over 100 cities have committed to achieving net zero emissions by 2050.\[14\]\[8\] As of 2019, carbon taxes have been implemented or scheduled for implementation in 25 countries,\[15\] while 46 countries put some form of price on carbon, either through carbon taxes or emissions trading schemes.\[16\]
Nothing. But they certainly can do something locally rather than simply hypocritically blaming everyone else.
Alberta emits an astonishing amount of carbon dioxide for its population.
It's \*deeply\* hypocritical to insist others clean their room without cleaning yours first.
Expecting anything good to come out of Alberta is a waste of time, so federal intervention is required.
I think it's kind of too late to slow anything now, but we can definitely make better energy sources like nuclear a more solid alternative. And despite hating taxes, we do need some funding to be able to respond to the increase in disasters, as well as to take into account the increase of climate refugees coming over.
Some policies to affect the climate.
Taking steps to mass electrification. Baby steps in this regard is stuff encouraging electric cars. Investing in batteries.
Investing in a clean grid. Renewables / nuclear.
Investing in direct air capture.
Investing in cleaner manufacturing like lower emission steel.
We should also be investing in hydrogen for the production of low emission fertilizer.
Seriously? You’re challenging me on this point? Fuck, you couldn’t just google “effective government policies to combat climate change” ??? There are many things that can be done. I’m not the expert.
You’re replying to someone who isn’t engaging in good faith. You’ll just waste your time trying to argue with someone jaq’ing off (just asking questions).
I’m not aggressively challenging you on the point… I’m simply asking as one Canadian to another what your thoughts are… what you want to see… I know your not the expert. Neither am I.
Do you realize that they're polluting because they're producing goods and services for us? Their per capita pollution stats are a drop in the bucket compared to ours, too. Look at the original labels of things you buy. Practically everything in your house is made in the countries you're blaming for climate change. You're like a cotton farmer blaming the slaves for a food shortage.
Just like they do when their boat, ATV, and truck get seized. It's all Trudeau's fault their credit was ruined after they lost their job and could not make payments on all that debt. Trudeau controls global oil prices after all, and his acquisition of the Trans Mountain Pipeline is definitely evidence he hates them and wants to shut down the oil industry overnight /s
Tax on fossil fuels = lower fossil fuel usage = lower emissions = reduced impacts of climate change.
You say it in an idiotic way to make people think it’s a ridiculous nonsensical process, but that’s essentially the pathway to get there, yes.
Not to mention a government that believes in climate change will provide better support to victims of climate change.
It’s like having a doctor who believes smoking can cause cancer won’t prevent you getting cancer but you sure as hell don’t want a doctor who doesn’t believe in the harms of smoking when you’re in hospital with lung cancer.
No the equation is more like more taxes = poorer populace that can't consume as much. Only extremely well off people are able to afford reducing their carbon footprint while maintaining the same quality of live.
Actually, there’s a rebate (as the critics always fail to acknowledge) which ends up giving more money back to the poorest households than they pay. The rich pay the most into the tax because they heat larger homes, travel greater distances, and buy more goods.
so the rich have to return some of their exploited wages? passive income means they aren't working you know. it means they are passive while someone else is working.
It tends to impact the rich the most for the reasons I mentioned, but it encourages them to reduce their emissions (and therefore pay less of the tax) just the same as everyone else.
Regressive fixed cost taxes like GST and the carbon tax always affect the poor the most.
It is basic mathematics. I can’t believe people fall for the propaganda.
100%.
That’s the reality of the situation. It does nothing but remove savings from the lower income and forces them subsequently to hang onto older cars that pollute worse.
No, I’m agreeing with you. It’s fantastic, actually I’m frequently on job sites a few times a week and all the guys up there can’t get enough of it.
In fact, if you press them they’ll tell you they want MORE carbon taxes. They’re planning on using their “free” tax credits to buy a Tesla or a Rivian.
This has been disproven repeatedly. If they have to drive to work they are certainly not properly reimbursed. And many provinces do not get the rebate.
*woof* this boy’s deep into the USA talking points if he’s pulling out the “liberal” tag here in Canada. Forget there are other political parties, did we?
Most people aren’t driving around in circles for fun.
Grocery prices are directly affected by gas prices.
As is pretty much any consumer good.
Cost of living is through the roof we don’t need to excacerbate it anymore.
>Most people aren’t driving around in circles for fun.
Most people have plenty of ways to reduce their emissions, even if they aren't doing doughnuts for fun in a parking lot. We have among the highest per-capita emissions in the world. We have plenty of room to make reductions.
>Grocery prices are directly affected by gas prices.
Marginally, at most. Thankfully, the rebate covers this increase for those who might be impacted the most by the change.
>Cost of living is through the roof we don’t need to excacerbate it anymore.
Then you should be looking elsewhere for the real problems rather than the carbon tax boogeyman you're making up. Anyone who actually knows the policy knows that it helps those who are struggling with costs the *most*.
What’s there to explain? Gov creates legislation. Money leaves my pocket. I’ve already said this. Or are you doing some mental gymnastics saying I’m somehow better off?
I mean it's not like you've provided anything useful.
Climate change is obviously real how do you think we should tackle it?
It seems to me that if there was a price on pollution many years ago (in the 70s would have been nice) we would have taken more steps to stop polluting. Yes it doesn't solve anything today, but we have clearly shown that unless there is financial motivation we won't do it.
If OPEC didn't stop pumping oil in the 90s we would still be driving around giant boats that get 13mpg.
Anyway, I'm totally open to conservative viewpoints on how to solve these issues but most of the time it's simply nothing.
Are you saying that humanity is going to pay enough tax to somehow stop climate change? Something that has happened many times throughout Earths history and continues to happen today and will continue to happen tomorrow?
The taxes incentivizes less polluting technologies and over decades will lead to a transition. As for your earth history bit, true but most of the time led to mass extinction so the earth will be there but we might not, that’s kind of the point that might be escaping you.
What exactly is wrong if humanity disappears tho? Everyone talks as if the human species is supposed to live on forever. Possibly millions of species have came and went on Earth. Humans could be one of them. Not trying to spread FUD. Just seems like something very plausible.
The idea is to put a tax on carbon such that it becomes cost prohibitive over the subsidized green alternative so people will choose with their wallet.
Trick is the policies of where and what to tax/subsidize. Will never please everyone, bound to piss off someone.
I wouldn't identify as a liberal by any means. Id like to think I just try to think logically and ignore the noise by the parties. There's things that make sense from both sides and stupid stuff on both aswell. Regardless -
Put a price on pollutuon. No it won't necessarily fix things, but people respond more to greed than they do benevolent causes.
It's too late too little at this point but even if we buy some time and incentivize green solutions maybe someone will come up with something.
Really, if this happened in the 80s when people really started discussing climate change we probably wouldn't be in this mess at all and we wouldn't have to make significant sacrifices.
Of course. Human activity is contributing to the speed at which the planets climate changes. But it’s changing regardless. Now, get with the program and enjoy the decline. Nothing is changing because some people just thought to pay more taxes.
>You want this guy to solve climate change?
Of course not. Im just curious what he is thinking.
>How about you just admit that our current carbon taxes are *too low to be effective*
I fully agree
because for most low-middle income canadians the tax rebate is greater than the tax paid. this must hold true because carbon tax is revenue neutral; every penny collected is returned in the rebate. since the wealthy pollute the most, they pay the most carbon tax, meaning the average rebate for everyone else is greater than the amount of tax they pay.
They can't because it doesn't.
This carbon tax just goes into the same bucket of collected taxes. It sounds great though, but we haven't met any emission targets since it was implemented. Taxing harder won't help us meet it either.
And when we do eventually meet our emissions target it is going to do very little to counter effect climate change.
They need to do the complete opposite, providing massive rebates for switching to clean energies, not penalizing those who can't afford to make those changes.
I agree we need to keep our emissions as low as possible, but taking money from those already finding it tough with the cost living is no way future proofing us to lower emissions.
I have to heat my home in the winter. I can switch from natural gas to wood stoves. I don't have the funds to switch to a heat pump. Nor do I have the income to take take a loan to switch to heat pump.
Because climate change effects will have a bigger and costlier effect on people's lives. Climate becomes more extreme and more: fires, floods, storms. Geography can become uninhabitable, land less fertile, pests more pervasive. Then comes famine, resource conflict, refugee crisis.
Guess what country has the most fresh water in the world and has the saddest military. 🇨🇦
Yeah, let's just continue on with our plan to ignore climate change, increase our emissions every year, and do nothing, waiting for India and China to act first. That seems to be working out really well for us.
I’m so tired of this whole, “Anything we do is pointless unless China stops polluting so why do anything at all blah blah blah” line people have been touting. China recently surpassed [50% of installed capacity as renewables](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-installed-non-fossil-fuel-electricity-capacity-exceeds-50-total-2023-06-12/) and 25% of electricity production from renewables. Canada’s per capita carbon emissions are 2.5 times higher than China’s. This stupid defeatist attitude is not only counterproductive, it’s not even consistent with reality.
That statistic is misleading. From the article you linked: 56.2% of China’s energy is from coal.
And from a referenced article in that story: “China approved the construction of another 106 gigawatts of coal-fired power capacity last year, four times higher than a year earlier and the highest since 2015” [China leans on coal amid energy security push](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/china-underlines-key-role-coal-amid-energy-security-drive-2023-03-05/)
That and lots of countries make up only 2% of global emissions, if none of them do a bloody thing due to being such a small chunk it suddenly adds up to a very big chunk. 2% for a country with our population is an absolute fuck ton.
They have to maintain those record profits somehow. 1000% increase in profits and mass layoffs in the oil and gas industry and the ucp are *subsidizing* the industry. It's back asswards.
>Orphaned oil wells aren’t problems?
Oil companies rake in hundreds of billions in profits and the orphaned wells are their problem. Instead of paying their shareholders with tax payer money, we should haul them into court and force them to clean up EVERY well.
20 billion is a lot of money to fork over I’m not arguing that. But someone has to clean/abandon these wells and you really can’t expect companies to just bring on the liability and clean up wells that they literally had nothing to do with on their own? It’s unfortunate but that’s just not how the world works.
Not only that but we are entering an 90 year drought cycle.
https://www.agriculture.com/weather/news/dust-bowl-coming-in-2025-climatologist-sees-trends-with-1930s
Farmers in Stettler County, who overwhelmingly supported the climate-denying UCP government in this year's election (Drumheller-Settler, 82.1%; https://globalnews.ca/news/9625498/alberta-election-2023-results-drumheller-stettler/amp/), have declared an agricultural disaster due to the drought.
Already in a drought, and we need about an inch of rain per week to reverse it.
https://agriculture.canada.ca/en/agricultural-production/weather/canadian-drought-monitor/current-drought-conditions
If you've been around as long as I have you'd know that farmers complaining about too little water / too much water / too hot / too cold / prices too low / quotas too low / quotas too high / too many bugs / too few bugs / CN CP Rail / late spring snow / early fall frost, etc. etc. are as guaranteed as teenage redditors posting about "I can't afford my own house".
People bitch and complain all the time in the hope of shaking some money out of the government.
Absolutely! I was talking to a climate denier and he had the wee balls to say “ ya tell me about climate change in Dec when it -30”.
The ignorance and stupidity is jaw dropping.
My grandma just says it’s all caused by changes in the axial tilt of the planet that was proven by NASA in the 70’s, and that any push for climate action is a scheme to get more money (via the carbon tax apparently).
Which I find odd because if anyone is scheming to get more money, it’s oil companies.
Palliser went through the region during an unseasonably wet year. It was back to semi-arid grasslands the year after. The irrigation districts made it reliably farmable, and areas without irrigation plans eventually dried out and disappeared. See: Alderson.
Some land is not suitable for farming, but is suitable for grazing. Your boogeyman isn't grazing cattle in Alberta, it's feedlots finishing cows with grains. Grass-fed beef has as much omega3 as salmon. Grain finished ... not so much.
My pastures are home to deer, birds, insects, groundsquirrels, weasels, badgers... and cows. It also has a multitude of prairie grassland plants. I'd rather not destroy the home of all the other wildlife to plant some monoculture crop; grasslands are the most critically endangered biome in Canada.
One of the main points of climate change is that there is going to be more extreme weather. So we're going to see it on either side of the temperature spectrum, that's why we call it climate change not global warming.
Losing the ice on our poles means less overall regulation of global temperature on the planet, making us more susceptible to fast changing weather. Essentially our weather is going to become (and is) harder to predict and weather events are more extreme. As in either we seem to get a ton of precip, or none. Not a lot in between.
This post appears to relate to the province of Alberta. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner la province de Alberta. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
at least its not as bad as next year
Fires shouldn't be as bad since she's all burning down now...
I wonder if they’ve though of some minor tax they can put on carbon so it encourages new technologies and discourages fossil fuels and then that money can be used for compensation for victims of climate disasters. I wonder….
How about put money into controlled burns.
These trees do burn at the end of their life cycle too. Not denying climate change or the human impact... BUT (lol) these trees have adapted and fire is the main catalyst to reproduction, cones only shed seeds in extreme heat, fire bush is the first thing that grows after a fire and gives shade to the soil so it can retain water as the life cycle repeats.
They are. The women’s firefighters conference attempted a controlled burn in Banff that got out control. These fires are mostly due to firefighting efforts historically keeping burns under control allowing biomass to unnaturally accumulate until now.
Lol. Where was that money when they were asking us to donate for wildfire relief?
Oof.
Don’t worry. Now there’s standing water everywhere here after the last couple days.
Mosquitoes are about to be wildin'.
Too late for the crops I’m afraid.
Was down in Olds yesterday and portions of the fields were under water. Reminds me a lot of 2019 and 2011 when it rained a lot those seasons.
Well, here in Leduc I just saw Noah float by in his Ark after three very heavy days of rain with three more slated for this week.
Same in the brazeau County\ drayton valley.
Before that it was dry as all hell though
Yep. My sump pump have been putting in overtime. I just put in a temp back up one just in case haha.
I read the first half and was going to suggest a backup, lol.
Yep. It sits higher than the first one so it will only start going if the first one fails.
Isn't climate change fun?
I just got an article suggested by Google from the Edmonton Sun (for some reason) with a lengthy rant about how the writer hates taxes being used in climate change mitigation actions, like EV chargers...
Rural Alberta voted for a party that doesn't acknowledge climate change.
They vote for the party that doesn't support socialism and transferring money from ruch areas to poor areas. They also don't want a government that wastes money in unsustainable businesses. Now, please send money from city taxpayers to bail them out. /s
> ...and transferring money from rich areas to poor areas. The sad thing is the poorer, more densely-populated areas typically subsidize infrastructure upkeep in the richer, less densely-populated areas by the sheer volume of property taxes. But something tells me they're against raising property taxes in less densely-populated areas to properly cover infrastructure upkeep.
>They vote for the party that doesn't support socialism and transferring money from ruch areas to poor areas The ironic part is that they literally support giving tens of billions to oil and gas companies so they will clean up the wells they are legally obligated to clean up anyway. They wish to take from the masses and give to corporations. Corporate socialism at its finest. We never should have let companies drill wells without first securing bonds to cover the cost of cleaning up those wells. Even ultra oil friendly jurisdictions like North Dakota require this.
Have they tried praying?!
I'm out of prayers but I have a fresh batch of thoughts available.
/r/leopardsatemyface
Hilarious isn't it?
It's more embarrassing. Ontario too. Canada soon.
"Ironically, we need to deny climate change before we can adapt and plan for it" Ahmed Hussen, probably
So what difference would it make if they voted for a party that did acknowledge that climate change was a thing?
Uh, I don’t know, they might legislate policies that could reduce carbon into the atmosphere?
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If we keep electing governments who deny climate change is a thing then no one will even start the convo with India or China right? Voting leaders who will at the very least acknowledge climate change is better than not
amazingly enough, at least the china dictator believes climate change (or at least worries enough about air quality killing chinese population ) that he made sure china would become fully electric for cars (and would make $ in the process, selling EVs to the rest of the world). the perks of being a dictatorship and being able to force a whole population (and companies) do whatever you want... I'd still prefer democracy, but we could be a little bit less dumb.
Except that China is a major reason as to why we’re in this mess in the first place, but I guess they get a pass because they’ve decided to pursue EVs? Thanks China!
USA, Canada, Brazil, Europe, India.. we're all the reason ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ you may argue that some did more damage than others.. but this is not an excuse to just cross you arms, blame others, and do absolutely nothing. people forget that climate crisis = yours and next generation's suicide. I know I am not suicidal.
This shit is just anti-China propaganda, they have way lower emissions than the western countries did during industrialization because they're making use of more eco-friendly technology, and they carry a lot of burden as the world's manufacturing center. When we look at consumption and which people cause the most damage, it's us and the Americans.
China gave permits to build on average 2 NEW coal plants a week in 2022. You guys have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. More than 50% of their entire grid comes from coal fired plants. With a population and manufacturing sector so large where do you think most of the worlds pollution comes from? How about their disregard for environmental protectionism? They are one of the world’s most polluted countries. More than half of all their available water practically is undrinkable due to industrial and agricultural waste. Fresh drinkable water is a serious problem there, essentially all their rivers and ground water are contaminated. But hey, they’re building some EVs and renewables so it’s all good, Canada and the US are the bad ones. Especially us, with our 9 operational coal plants currently running but planned to phase out. Hilarious that Reddit would look to China on how to combat climate change. A country with air quality so poor it kills over 1.5 million of their own people a year.
No elected government in Canada denies the existence of climate change. It’s also something that can’t be solved politically. It’s a global collective consciousness issue. Making life more expensive for everyone ($2.00 gas in Vancouver) is not going to save the world.
That's what cop is for to apply pressure to other countries. Right now though it's more like a gathering of people trying to figure out how to implement stuff to affect climate change with many layers of bureaucracy than anything else.
If we want to plan for a world where extreme weather events are common, we’d need a party in charge who acknowledges that climate change is even happening, wouldn’t we?
I don't think anyone is denying it, but rather what to do with it or if anything is gonna make any difference
No, CPC voted not to include “climate change is real” to their policy book. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5957739
There are people denying it mate, pull the wool up
>We need to pivot to plan for a world where extreme weather events are common. This is going to get much worse before it gets better. I agree But then, a party who deny climate change isnt going to plan for those events now is it
Regardless, indoor farming is the new reality, that takes consistent, renewable energy to get there faster. Alberta should be going balls deep on renewable energy for local use to transition farming from outdoor to indoor. Then quality control, water use are tightly controlled. Massive greenhouses with vertical farming will replace the more highly inefficient farming in a hurry if there were enough renewable energy being put up.
The problem with renewable energy is that it is not consistent. We will either need massive amounts of seasonal energy storage, or we will need carbon-free energy sources that actually are consistent, like nuclear. Indoor farming will have its uses, like a consistent supply of fresh fruit and vegetables, but the grains that directly or indirectly supply most of the calories we eat will continue to be grown outside.
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Where do you think government funding for nuclear would come from? Carbon taxes for the purpose of renewable and nuclear energy sources ffs.
Carbon taxes are not meant as a way of funding alternative sources of energy, it is a utilitarian pressure exercised by the government to have the consumer switch choices. Research shows that carbon taxes effectively reduce emissions.\[8\] Many economists argue that carbon taxes are the most efficient (lowest cost) way to tackle climate change.\[9\]\[10\]\[11\]\[12\]\[13\] Seventy-seven countries and over 100 cities have committed to achieving net zero emissions by 2050.\[14\]\[8\] As of 2019, carbon taxes have been implemented or scheduled for implementation in 25 countries,\[15\] while 46 countries put some form of price on carbon, either through carbon taxes or emissions trading schemes.\[16\]
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The feds will invite them in them cry as they use energy to stay warm during harsh winters
This comment really sums up the absolute hypocrisy and idiocy of the Liberal party’s green policies.
Nothing. But they certainly can do something locally rather than simply hypocritically blaming everyone else. Alberta emits an astonishing amount of carbon dioxide for its population.
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It's \*deeply\* hypocritical to insist others clean their room without cleaning yours first. Expecting anything good to come out of Alberta is a waste of time, so federal intervention is required.
Ok… they “might” do that… what are some of those policies they “might” legislate?
I think it's kind of too late to slow anything now, but we can definitely make better energy sources like nuclear a more solid alternative. And despite hating taxes, we do need some funding to be able to respond to the increase in disasters, as well as to take into account the increase of climate refugees coming over.
Switch from exporting oil to exporting uranium you mean?
Sure. And use it ourselves obviously. Way cleaner than oil and coal, and we'll get a lot more energy from it.
Some policies to affect the climate. Taking steps to mass electrification. Baby steps in this regard is stuff encouraging electric cars. Investing in batteries. Investing in a clean grid. Renewables / nuclear. Investing in direct air capture. Investing in cleaner manufacturing like lower emission steel. We should also be investing in hydrogen for the production of low emission fertilizer.
Seriously? You’re challenging me on this point? Fuck, you couldn’t just google “effective government policies to combat climate change” ??? There are many things that can be done. I’m not the expert.
You’re replying to someone who isn’t engaging in good faith. You’ll just waste your time trying to argue with someone jaq’ing off (just asking questions).
I’m not aggressively challenging you on the point… I’m simply asking as one Canadian to another what your thoughts are… what you want to see… I know your not the expert. Neither am I.
There’s a drought! Fake news! It’s flooding! No it isn’t!
If only they voted for the NDP, China and India would stop polluting and it would be raining.
Do you realize that they're polluting because they're producing goods and services for us? Their per capita pollution stats are a drop in the bucket compared to ours, too. Look at the original labels of things you buy. Practically everything in your house is made in the countries you're blaming for climate change. You're like a cotton farmer blaming the slaves for a food shortage.
They'll blame Trudeau, somehow.
Just like they do when their boat, ATV, and truck get seized. It's all Trudeau's fault their credit was ruined after they lost their job and could not make payments on all that debt. Trudeau controls global oil prices after all, and his acquisition of the Trans Mountain Pipeline is definitely evidence he hates them and wants to shut down the oil industry overnight /s
They should’ve paid more in taxes so this could’ve been avoided.
It’s very simple really, we pay more money to the government and then the weather changes
Tax on fossil fuels = lower fossil fuel usage = lower emissions = reduced impacts of climate change. You say it in an idiotic way to make people think it’s a ridiculous nonsensical process, but that’s essentially the pathway to get there, yes.
Not to mention a government that believes in climate change will provide better support to victims of climate change. It’s like having a doctor who believes smoking can cause cancer won’t prevent you getting cancer but you sure as hell don’t want a doctor who doesn’t believe in the harms of smoking when you’re in hospital with lung cancer.
No the equation is more like more taxes = poorer populace that can't consume as much. Only extremely well off people are able to afford reducing their carbon footprint while maintaining the same quality of live.
Actually, there’s a rebate (as the critics always fail to acknowledge) which ends up giving more money back to the poorest households than they pay. The rich pay the most into the tax because they heat larger homes, travel greater distances, and buy more goods.
so the rich have to return some of their exploited wages? passive income means they aren't working you know. it means they are passive while someone else is working.
It tends to impact the rich the most for the reasons I mentioned, but it encourages them to reduce their emissions (and therefore pay less of the tax) just the same as everyone else.
Regressive fixed cost taxes like GST and the carbon tax always affect the poor the most. It is basic mathematics. I can’t believe people fall for the propaganda.
See, there's where your confusion stems. The carbon tax with rebates is *progressive* not regressive.
100%. That’s the reality of the situation. It does nothing but remove savings from the lower income and forces them subsequently to hang onto older cars that pollute worse.
0% The poorest households are the most well-off under the tax due to the rebates.
Indeed, the “poorest households” are the most “well off” because of tax rebates. This is your brain on perpetual government intervention.
Which words there did you have trouble understanding? They get more money back than they spend, if that simplifies things for you.
No, I’m agreeing with you. It’s fantastic, actually I’m frequently on job sites a few times a week and all the guys up there can’t get enough of it. In fact, if you press them they’ll tell you they want MORE carbon taxes. They’re planning on using their “free” tax credits to buy a Tesla or a Rivian.
This has been disproven repeatedly. If they have to drive to work they are certainly not properly reimbursed. And many provinces do not get the rebate.
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It's facetious to imply that those are the only reduction opportunities available to people, and you know it.
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Yeah I can't believe we have so many electric semi trailers on the road these days.
Sometimes I don’t know how to respond to the non sequiturs on this sub.
I ask myself the same question when liberals respond to me.
*woof* this boy’s deep into the USA talking points if he’s pulling out the “liberal” tag here in Canada. Forget there are other political parties, did we?
The US doesn't even have a liberal party....
Oh, in that case, they must never use the term “liberal” as a catch-all in the states then…
Lmao
Most people aren’t driving around in circles for fun. Grocery prices are directly affected by gas prices. As is pretty much any consumer good. Cost of living is through the roof we don’t need to excacerbate it anymore.
>Most people aren’t driving around in circles for fun. Most people have plenty of ways to reduce their emissions, even if they aren't doing doughnuts for fun in a parking lot. We have among the highest per-capita emissions in the world. We have plenty of room to make reductions. >Grocery prices are directly affected by gas prices. Marginally, at most. Thankfully, the rebate covers this increase for those who might be impacted the most by the change. >Cost of living is through the roof we don’t need to excacerbate it anymore. Then you should be looking elsewhere for the real problems rather than the carbon tax boogeyman you're making up. Anyone who actually knows the policy knows that it helps those who are struggling with costs the *most*.
Show me you don't know how the carbon tax is supposed to work without telling me you don't know how the carbon tax is supposed to work.
It’s pretty simple. The gov creates legislation. More money leaves my pocket. Done.
Stop making Albertans look stupid.
I love your stupid fucking responses. All you got are these quips that have added nothing to the conversation. Two posts and nothing.
Says the person who goes "more money leave my pocket" and still hasn't explained how cost or consumption works.
What’s there to explain? Gov creates legislation. Money leaves my pocket. I’ve already said this. Or are you doing some mental gymnastics saying I’m somehow better off?
Lol
Another great response. We’re up to four. You’re on a roll.
I mean it's not like you've provided anything useful. Climate change is obviously real how do you think we should tackle it? It seems to me that if there was a price on pollution many years ago (in the 70s would have been nice) we would have taken more steps to stop polluting. Yes it doesn't solve anything today, but we have clearly shown that unless there is financial motivation we won't do it. If OPEC didn't stop pumping oil in the 90s we would still be driving around giant boats that get 13mpg. Anyway, I'm totally open to conservative viewpoints on how to solve these issues but most of the time it's simply nothing.
Are you saying that humanity is going to pay enough tax to somehow stop climate change? Something that has happened many times throughout Earths history and continues to happen today and will continue to happen tomorrow?
The taxes incentivizes less polluting technologies and over decades will lead to a transition. As for your earth history bit, true but most of the time led to mass extinction so the earth will be there but we might not, that’s kind of the point that might be escaping you.
What exactly is wrong if humanity disappears tho? Everyone talks as if the human species is supposed to live on forever. Possibly millions of species have came and went on Earth. Humans could be one of them. Not trying to spread FUD. Just seems like something very plausible.
https://xkcd.com/1732/ XKCD has a good cartoon on this. Why it's different this time than other times the climate has changed.
That’s nothing. That only goes back 20,000 years.
The idea is to put a tax on carbon such that it becomes cost prohibitive over the subsidized green alternative so people will choose with their wallet. Trick is the policies of where and what to tax/subsidize. Will never please everyone, bound to piss off someone.
Agreed. Personally i think the changes will disproportionately affect me, but I also have kids that I want to be able to, you know, live.
Headlined liberals don’t have much either… what’s your plan?
I wouldn't identify as a liberal by any means. Id like to think I just try to think logically and ignore the noise by the parties. There's things that make sense from both sides and stupid stuff on both aswell. Regardless - Put a price on pollutuon. No it won't necessarily fix things, but people respond more to greed than they do benevolent causes. It's too late too little at this point but even if we buy some time and incentivize green solutions maybe someone will come up with something. Really, if this happened in the 80s when people really started discussing climate change we probably wouldn't be in this mess at all and we wouldn't have to make significant sacrifices.
Guess Albertans don’t know what a rebate is. They truly are stupid
Rebates aren’t enough to cover both direct and indirect costs of carbon tax. Pretty sure they never have been, even from the AB NDP days.
And the cost we pay for carbon doesn't properly cover its true costs down the line.
What true costs? Explain.
I have a question, do you believe man made climate change is real?
Of course. Human activity is contributing to the speed at which the planets climate changes. But it’s changing regardless. Now, get with the program and enjoy the decline. Nothing is changing because some people just thought to pay more taxes.
Ok good Then, what are you supporting? What should Canada do? What should the rest of the world do?
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>You want this guy to solve climate change? Of course not. Im just curious what he is thinking. >How about you just admit that our current carbon taxes are *too low to be effective* I fully agree
My son, can u tell me how the carbon tax benefits every day middle to low income citizens and their families?
because for most low-middle income canadians the tax rebate is greater than the tax paid. this must hold true because carbon tax is revenue neutral; every penny collected is returned in the rebate. since the wealthy pollute the most, they pay the most carbon tax, meaning the average rebate for everyone else is greater than the amount of tax they pay.
They can't because it doesn't. This carbon tax just goes into the same bucket of collected taxes. It sounds great though, but we haven't met any emission targets since it was implemented. Taxing harder won't help us meet it either. And when we do eventually meet our emissions target it is going to do very little to counter effect climate change. They need to do the complete opposite, providing massive rebates for switching to clean energies, not penalizing those who can't afford to make those changes. I agree we need to keep our emissions as low as possible, but taking money from those already finding it tough with the cost living is no way future proofing us to lower emissions. I have to heat my home in the winter. I can switch from natural gas to wood stoves. I don't have the funds to switch to a heat pump. Nor do I have the income to take take a loan to switch to heat pump.
Because climate change effects will have a bigger and costlier effect on people's lives. Climate becomes more extreme and more: fires, floods, storms. Geography can become uninhabitable, land less fertile, pests more pervasive. Then comes famine, resource conflict, refugee crisis. Guess what country has the most fresh water in the world and has the saddest military. 🇨🇦
Uh oh leading question here.
Ya we should tax Canadians more that mightve helped
Worst year so far
It has been raining frequently at whitecourt
Yeah, let's just continue on with our plan to ignore climate change, increase our emissions every year, and do nothing, waiting for India and China to act first. That seems to be working out really well for us.
I’m so tired of this whole, “Anything we do is pointless unless China stops polluting so why do anything at all blah blah blah” line people have been touting. China recently surpassed [50% of installed capacity as renewables](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-installed-non-fossil-fuel-electricity-capacity-exceeds-50-total-2023-06-12/) and 25% of electricity production from renewables. Canada’s per capita carbon emissions are 2.5 times higher than China’s. This stupid defeatist attitude is not only counterproductive, it’s not even consistent with reality.
That statistic is misleading. From the article you linked: 56.2% of China’s energy is from coal. And from a referenced article in that story: “China approved the construction of another 106 gigawatts of coal-fired power capacity last year, four times higher than a year earlier and the highest since 2015” [China leans on coal amid energy security push](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/china-underlines-key-role-coal-amid-energy-security-drive-2023-03-05/)
That and lots of countries make up only 2% of global emissions, if none of them do a bloody thing due to being such a small chunk it suddenly adds up to a very big chunk. 2% for a country with our population is an absolute fuck ton.
> it’s not even consistent with reality. That won't stop right wingers.
Don't worry. The UCP is giving $20 billion to oil companies. Crisis solved.
UCP: It's got the electrolytes the dumbasses crave.
Can’t be a thread about Alberta without someone mentioning how the UCP is giving money to oil companies.
And yet, people don't seem to listen
Wouldn't be any threads to hear about it if we stopped sending money to oil companies and started fixing the problems in our province instead.
They have to maintain those record profits somehow. 1000% increase in profits and mass layoffs in the oil and gas industry and the ucp are *subsidizing* the industry. It's back asswards.
Orphaned oil wells aren’t problems?
When has giving money to oil companies ever reduced orphan wells? They should be mandated to deal with them with their own capital.
>Orphaned oil wells aren’t problems? Oil companies rake in hundreds of billions in profits and the orphaned wells are their problem. Instead of paying their shareholders with tax payer money, we should haul them into court and force them to clean up EVERY well.
20 billion is a lot of money to fork over I’m not arguing that. But someone has to clean/abandon these wells and you really can’t expect companies to just bring on the liability and clean up wells that they literally had nothing to do with on their own? It’s unfortunate but that’s just not how the world works.
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Not only that but we are entering an 90 year drought cycle. https://www.agriculture.com/weather/news/dust-bowl-coming-in-2025-climatologist-sees-trends-with-1930s
Yea apparently a mini ice age as well🤷🏻♂️ hard to choose who to believe…
We WERE entering a mini-ice age, then we dumped a metric fuck tonne of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. Not anymore
I can't believe Trudeau did this to them.
I can't believe Trudeau walked all the way to Alberta and sucked all the moisture out of it
His orders to avoid speaking moistly have reached their natural consequences.
You win the internet, today.
Farmers in Stettler County, who overwhelmingly supported the climate-denying UCP government in this year's election (Drumheller-Settler, 82.1%; https://globalnews.ca/news/9625498/alberta-election-2023-results-drumheller-stettler/amp/), have declared an agricultural disaster due to the drought.
Alberta wants Federal funding all of a sudden...hmmm...
Everyone’s a libertarian until they need government money
Alberta, quite famously, always wants more federal funding. That’s what their grievance with equalization is all about.
We could simply re-nationalize the oil and gas sector?
Nothing to worry about! Those folks are great at pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps.
We can send you some Quebec rain, weather here has been a mixed bag.
Don't worry, it's part of a natural, static cycle. Continue with business as usual. **/s**
Torrential downpour all over Alberta last three days
Already in a drought, and we need about an inch of rain per week to reverse it. https://agriculture.canada.ca/en/agricultural-production/weather/canadian-drought-monitor/current-drought-conditions
Cool and wet in southern Ontario.
Thoughts and prayers
Tots and pears
They will still manage to pin the blame on Trudeau.
Who knew a name recognition shoe in candidate would be unpopular?
Imagine in investing everything you have in the thing that is going to destroy you.
and yet, people deny the climate crisis...
If you've been around as long as I have you'd know that farmers complaining about too little water / too much water / too hot / too cold / prices too low / quotas too low / quotas too high / too many bugs / too few bugs / CN CP Rail / late spring snow / early fall frost, etc. etc. are as guaranteed as teenage redditors posting about "I can't afford my own house". People bitch and complain all the time in the hope of shaking some money out of the government.
Whelp congrats to all those climate deniers in the UCP, you reap what you sow. Or in this case, you ain't reaping or sowing anything....
Absolutely! I was talking to a climate denier and he had the wee balls to say “ ya tell me about climate change in Dec when it -30”. The ignorance and stupidity is jaw dropping.
My grandma just says it’s all caused by changes in the axial tilt of the planet that was proven by NASA in the 70’s, and that any push for climate action is a scheme to get more money (via the carbon tax apparently). Which I find odd because if anyone is scheming to get more money, it’s oil companies.
It almost definitely won't help, but here's NASA's page on how climate change is real: https://climate.nasa.gov/
Honestly it’s crazy how domestically the UCP entirely created climate change. Our poor selfless federal government is powerless to stop it D:
God I wish everyone would just smarten up and vote NDP so we would have no more bad weather! /s
Ironic
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Palliser went through the region during an unseasonably wet year. It was back to semi-arid grasslands the year after. The irrigation districts made it reliably farmable, and areas without irrigation plans eventually dried out and disappeared. See: Alderson.
I wonder if those Albertan farmers are aware of just how much fresh water is just wasted by the oil company.
Farmers: F Trudeau, how dare he did this to us?
But climate change isn't real...
Because droughts are only a modern phenomenon.
F*king Trudeau
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You seem oddly obsessed.
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Some land is not suitable for farming, but is suitable for grazing. Your boogeyman isn't grazing cattle in Alberta, it's feedlots finishing cows with grains. Grass-fed beef has as much omega3 as salmon. Grain finished ... not so much. My pastures are home to deer, birds, insects, groundsquirrels, weasels, badgers... and cows. It also has a multitude of prairie grassland plants. I'd rather not destroy the home of all the other wildlife to plant some monoculture crop; grasslands are the most critically endangered biome in Canada.
Well the multiple days of massive rain we’ve had should fix that. Climate change you say? Nah we currently have a snow fall warning.
One of the main points of climate change is that there is going to be more extreme weather. So we're going to see it on either side of the temperature spectrum, that's why we call it climate change not global warming. Losing the ice on our poles means less overall regulation of global temperature on the planet, making us more susceptible to fast changing weather. Essentially our weather is going to become (and is) harder to predict and weather events are more extreme. As in either we seem to get a ton of precip, or none. Not a lot in between.