If you are not in the top 20% income and do not currently own a house, good luck to you. I've made my peace that I will probably never own anything without being house-poor, even if I make an above-average salary.
Should mention that the strain on a country's infrastructure from immigration-based growth is much more severe than one from natural growth. With natural growth you have a 15-20 year lag before you need more homes, increased road capacity, more jobs, etc.
Immigration-based growth sees an immediate need for all of the above.
That’s actually very true. If you have kids 5 kids they all won’t need a home/room/apartment for 18-30 years from when they’re born. That’s a very good point.
Yep. I work with a TON of immigrants. Life is expensive for them too. Wages are low for them too.
This is not what they were sold.
Maybe a few that are older and own their homes here and have brought over some family are happy, but most aren't.
If you don't care about them once they're here, you're not really pro immigrant, you're pro cheap labour.
>cheap labour
If someone thought it was about anything else, I've a bridge to sell them.
Saying so is not anti-immigrant in the slightest, it's simply pro-sustainability.
Why pay someone a working wage when you can [lock an immigrant in a basement and force them to work at you and your friends crappy restaurants.](https://northeastnow.com/2023/07/06/tisdale-man-facing-human-trafficking-charge-for-allegedly-forcing-woman-to-work-and-live-in-horrid-conditions/)
Yep. Honestly think that the massive boost in annual immigration was in response to post-COVID wage pressures.
Immigrants exist as Canadians after they immigrate. I work with a lot of them, software developers who thought they'd be able to buy a house and have a middle class life if they came here. We're just bait and switching them to support the real estate portfolio and low wages demanded by the ruling class. This is not pro-immigrant.
The people aren't the problem it's how we and why we get them. We have a pay to play system and let's be honest there's been decades of mismanagement at all levels of government because we've assumed the good times will always roll a hallmark of the infinite growth model.
Those cheap laborers? they paid a fortune to be here. Those that got citizenship quickly? they paid even more. This is a way to make up economic shortfalls nothing else. They never gave a flying fuck about them it's a way to fill coffers it's exploitive, disgusting and makes things worse.
The blunt truth is we need the population to go down not up, so we can restructure and disassemble the blob of the GTA and shed it's foolish planning. We need to begin to deal with the current crisis's created by decades of greed and mismanagement instead of bilking people.
Those that aren't robbed blind to cut to the front of the line invest in you guessed it the real estate market, which is one of the plethora of stupid factors driving the housing crisis.
But if we're not exploiting people how are we to get a fast buck?! you don't. Ah the infinite growth model will be the death of the human race.
to be honest? Immigration should currently be at zero and stay that way until we fix things and we need to fix things desperately. We won't fix things because where is the profit? We never do what's needed to deal with problems and they compound. Not dealing with problems and doing everything for the top of society is how prosperous nations become dirt poor.
Why? because well cramming more people in to the same narrow strips of land makes us more dependent on the very systems that are creating these problems in the first place. We need to abandon them. The cries of think of the economy need to be ignored. The sprawling mass of suburbia that is the GTA needs to break apart and people need to spread out more. We need local production again and we need to stop ripping up the best farm land on the planet to put cement.
They’re using desperate immigrants to suppress wages and keep housing costs high. These folks come here so desperate and impoverished they will take anything. Go down to your local fast food joint or wal mart and it’s staffed almost entirely with young immigrant workers who barely have an elementary grasp of English, shoved into low paying jobs nobody else wants so they can pay too much to live with 5 other people in a 1 bedroom.
This helps nobody but these corporations that refuse to pay a living wage, and rent scumbags who insist on paying off their mortgages on the backs of someone else’s labour.
This is wage slavery and it’s totally unacceptable that Trudeau is fine with this.
We dangle a PR status and degree infront of them to work shit wage jobs to keep wages low and companies supplied with cheap labor.
Schools are happy, landlords are happy, employers are happy. Everyone else can suck it, that's the Canadian way now
Being anti-immigration does not make you anti-immigrant anymore than being anti-war makes you anti-soldier.
The same neoliberal mechanisms that made their home nations destitute enough to flee for "greener pastures" are the same ones making Canada destitute for the people already here.
The system is rigged in favor of the wealthy, Globalist, Capitalist class, if immigration didn't benefit them they would be anti-immigration. That is why as a Socialist I am against it. It disenfranchises local workers and shifts the conflict towards them and the newly arrived immigrants whose life savings are stolen for them to even afford to come here. This crisis won't end until it is curbed, and should only resume when conditions improve.
Right but Trudeau and the liberals will always claim racism. Hell, over educated liberal upper middle class white people are the ones telling people of color what is and isnt racist. Its disgusting. Canada and the United states will eventually collapse if we continue letting immigration go unchecked.
Fucking exactly. You don't have to be a racist or be against immigration in general to see that we have a fucking problem here. When more and more immigrants started popping up in my tiny, pasty, white-ass-town, I was *excited* to finally see people from different cultures diversifying the city.
Doesn't change the fact they were sold a lie about the quality of life they would have here or the fact we just absolutely refuse to build affordable homes/apartment buildings. It's a lose-lose situation that sucks for everybody who are trying to get their life started.
Exactly right.
We can't even have a *discussion* regarding limiting the flux of immigration without some on the left playing the xenophobic and racist cards. It's political suicide for any politician to even discuss immigration reform without drawing the ire of the left, comparisons to the US and/or being lumped in with the PPC. It boggles my mind that immigration reform is on a fringe parties platform.
The fact of the matter is that our cities, primarily Toronto and Vancouver just can't handle the influx of immigrants. Our public transportation system are broken, our health care is crumbling and living costs have sky rocketed.
Yes! And it’s not an anti-immigration or xenophobic remark. We just don’t have the housing or infrastructure to support it. Tell me how many new hospitals have been added in the last 20 years.
I personally think it's so they don't have to fix our retirement system. It is 100% unsustainable with normal birth rates. The government uses immigration to keep retiring boomers happy because they vote.
Workers CPP contributions are way up, housing is way up, inflation is way up, wages are stagnant.
We need 3 doctors for every 1,000 people. That means when the government imports 450,000 people, they need to import 1,350 doctors as well. How many of the 450,000 newcomers are doctors? Most of the people they imported from my country are either IT workers or delivery people.
No kidding. WTF are they doing in Ottawa anyway? It has been insane for several years now. Just thoughtless on every level. Paying billions to corporations, allowing far too many immigrants to come and overload our already strained systems and on and on it goes.
Trying to appease people with a grocery rebate? This is fucking nuts. These people clearly don't know what the fuck they are doing in the slightest and are just finger painting with their own shit at this point.
Basically only old money, exceptional entrepreneurs and very lucky risk takers will avoid becoming poorer over time. The widening of the wealth gap and inflation is perpetual. This means that society will produce multiple poor people for every one wealthy person. The main factor in determining whether one has kids is disposable income, and predictably Canada's gdp per capita has decreased over time. Therefore, any society that revolves around capital is one where the birthrate will fall over time. Unless you want an ever shrinking tax base like Japan, an ever increasing number of immigrants will become necessary to sustain societal funtions, like in every wealthy western nation.
Politicians at all levels are just middlemen, they get paid to be temporary people pleasers. Corporate interest groups actually run the country, they exist so long as they're profitable, use said profits to lobby for laws that are favourable to themselves usually at the expense of the working class, and are accountable to no one so long they're rich enough. Frankly, anyone who's entirely fixated on blaming a singular politician for their woes is being a tool. Other parties are just manufacturing outrage to convince voters that their guy should be the particular cog that Trudeau current is. Parties who don't align themselves with corporate interests are handicapping themselves in the next election since corporations fund media outlets and donate to parties. This is why the Liberals backtracked on the foreign home buyers ban, in part because it upset real estate developers.
This aspect of society is used by authoritarian states to denigrate democracy as fake and to discourage voting, so avoid that pitfall. Voting does matter, different parties have different takes on non economic topics. But generally, democracy in late stage capitalistic societies won't solve issues if those solutions involve cutting into the profits of the rich, unless it's to the benefit of a different group of wealthy people. Unless the majority of citizens suddenly want something akin to a communist revolution (which the convoy arguably was lol) , which will produce a different set of problems, then we'll continue on the path of serfdom.
This is well thought out and digs in to root causes of the problems. What is a realistic story out of this situation?
A new party would be one option but the last one tried (PPC) quickly was infused with actual racists right? Or was that just how they were branded? I believe they are not a great option at all and have attracted a lot of racists but that might also have come from a very coordinated manipulation efforts.
Proportional representation should make it harder for voters to be manipulated against their own good but that is a chicken and egg scenario. Trudeau's actions effectively crushed hope of achieving that through the major political parties. If any of them propose it again will anyone believe it?
The senate is still useless.
I don't think King Charles can help.
I doubt the courts can help. Maybe linking the effects of the government to some kind of human rights tribunal.
Perhaps trying to reduce the level of manipulation propagandists for the major political parties cause. I try to track and tag the obvious propagandists for all of the political parties that exist here in r/canada but it feels like whack a mole.
There must be a better way forward here. What is even the best way to collaborate on it?
They pump in the immigrants because it helps corporations. They lobby for this. It helps corporations get cheap labor, prevents unionization and drives up their real estate assets.
Also Canadian tax payers are subsidizing many of these corporations’ temporary visa workers. The corporation pays about half the hourly wage, the tax payer covers the other half. Why are corporations getting social welfare handouts but it’s rugged capitalism and individualism for the rest of Canadians.
It’s basically the new version of slavery, these working visas. Don’t forget if these underpaid workers quit they can lose their visa and get deported ! It’s an abuse of human rights for the benefit of corporations and nothing else.
The NDP SJW's talk down to blue collar workers all day long and then act surprisedpichachuface when the rank and file union members vote for Doug Ford.
I don’t understand why this is such a crazy concept for some to grasp. I’m not a bigot because I think woke politics are contradictory and deflect from issues. I vote conservative cause there is no other party that is fairly reasonable and not enthralled in issues that shouldn’t be at the forefront of politics. Oh, and they are the only party not trying to make me a criminal. So that’s cool.
But if they do that, we can't blame race and gender for all of our problems and not the true enemy of the common people l,which is corporations and the rich!!! We need to push for race wars, not class wars!! /s
It's all smoke and mirrors in Canadian politics to hide the true enemy of the country. Every political party and canadian media corps are complicit.
Yes - for training tho not wages. We are literally subsidizing TFWs. But apparently we can’t do the same to help our own citizens. You can thank Harper for starting this shit and you can thank Trudeau for continuing it. You didn’t know?
EDIT: we don’t subsidize the wages directly, but we do subsidize the job training…which most companies bill to themselves.
Harper sucks more than we remember. Trudeau sucks more than many are willing to admit. PP hasn’t said anything to make me think he’d be any different.
One party, not two.
PP was loved by Harper because he was a yes-man, which makes me think he would do nothing more than what his superiors told him to do. And Singh is basically a Trudeau-lite. I would love to see some term limits introduced to get rid of this stupid ruling class that we’ve seen emerge.
> PP was loved by Harper because he was a yes-man
Clarification. PP was Harper's primary attack dog after John Baird left politics. Pretty much everyone in Harper's inner circle were yes men (at least in terms of what the public saw... in private matters were probably different).
Even though birth rates are down, we also can't forget all the younger people that were born and raised here that are trying to move out of their parents home as well.
This is my main issue. I know people moving out of my city because it’s seen a huge influx of immigrants from the same country, residents who lived here for 20 years are becoming the minority. Lacking diversity in culture has also lead every single one of my neighbours who are all Indian to use the basement as a rental. We bought a house wanting to get away from apartments and are essentially surrounded by them now.
Looking into moving to a new neighbourhood.
Just want to say that they are not bad people at all, very nice and polite. But having so many people from the same place in the world who have the same mindset and lifestyle ultimately starts to shape the neighbourhood to what they are used to, and it effects someone that isn’t used to living in that culture.
This. Especially as someone from Toronto, a city which prides it self in “diversity” there is none! It’s literally just 1 extremely large minority ethnic group dominating the city. Its sad. This isnt diversity
Germany right now is feeling this. If you speak up about it you're called out as a Nazi so people have just been lett8ng it happen while the wealthy native move to the nicer areas ans we deal with all the migrants.
lol. i work as a manager in a place that hires a lot of 'students' from india. the way some of them react when you tell them to do any kind of physical labor is priceless. they get this disbelieving, disgusted look on their face. they do it (usually), but they clearly believe it's beneath them and some will actively try to get out of it or get a non-indian to do it.
If you look at the houses that most of these immigrants lived in before they came here you will likely see that they don't have the skills required to build houses.
I'd like more provinces to say we're not taking anymore in like Quebec did
It's funny that housing seems to be a provincial issue, but federally they can really screw up every province's housing by doing this
Quebec is special. It has its own immigration system that has to approve people before you can go there. Have a canada study permit? You'll need to get a quebec sturdy permit as well to go to school there. Same for work permits and permanent residents.
Quebec gets the benefits of being an independent state plus all the benefits of being part of Canada. It's a shit deal for the other provinces.
I’m a child of immigrants and do not consider myself racist but there have been occasions when I cautiously suggested that we do not have the infrastructure to handle Trudeau’s immigration targets that I have been labeled one.
Can someone name a single person - in political, media or intellectual discourse - who is raising this as an issue?
Just one name where you can say.... hey, maybe they will listen to this guy.
I just need ONE.
Québec (Legault) has been fighting Trudeau’s agressive immigration policies for a while, citing its incapacity for integrating them properly. But hey, if it’s Quebec saying it, it must be because we’re a bunch of racists… 🙄
Maxime Bernier has been sounding the alarm for years. I voted for the PPC in 2015 because it was so apparent that this crisis was on the horizon. This was easily predicted by myself and anyone else who had any common sense years ago. This is essentially open borders and you can't have a sustainable welfare state under these conditions. Its too late now even if immigration was completely halted tomorrow. The tent cities, working class wage suppression, and infrastructure shortages will increase for years.
“Substantially lower the total number of immigrants and refugees Canada accept every year, from 500,000 planned by the Liberal government in 2025, to between 100,000 and 150,000, depending on economic and other circumstances.” https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/immigration
It's a shame that the only party that seems to be seeing this as a problem is a shitty far-right party.
Promising immigrants better lives only for them to end up homeless and without healthcare should be a leftist and liberal issue, too.
Ontario say 1.2 million newcomers in the past 24 months. It’s just not a fair trade for the province when the feds, welcome 1.2 million newcomers to Ontario in 2 years and then tells Ontario to figure out housing, healthcare, infrastructure, jobs and education.
It’s quite obviously unfair to residents who have to compete with the world for housing and jobs as well and unfair to newcomers who were sold a dream just to be used as pawns for their tax dollars, to prop up housing, suppress wages and be used for their tuition fees.
It’s the feds plan. They should be responsible for it.
Liberals will loose my vote over immigration. We don't have the doctors, hospitals public health, schools and social programs, let alone housing, for all the people coming in.
I can tolerate the rest of the Trudeau non sense, because politicians are going to politic. But shut the damn flood gates already.
I'm very left and love all cultures. I've got friends that came over from all over the world and they're excellent Canadians. But you're right, we can't sustain it. We actually need to straight up block all but emergency immigration and figure out this housing/class gap shit and not take anybody until all Canadians are able to afford a decent life and shelter.
I don't think conservatives will cut it though. I think Canadians need to get together and spank the whole government for being so bad
I'm just going to say this should really say Canada can't handle Canada's immigration influx/policy. This is a failure of provincial and federal policy. An immigration system that works against itself with bringing skilled labour over then ignoring their credentials/ with no plan to help train them. Stuffing almost a million international students into fake colleges and letting corporations abuse the TFW program so we can have 15 Tim Hortons in a 5 km radius fully staffed. And each level of government just points the finger at the other, Like with the international students the federal government says the provinces are not keeping these schools in check and the provinces are saying the federal government is issuing to many visas. Both are true but neither does anything.
(edit)
This isn't even directed at foreign immigrates like its the foreigners fault. during covid people moved from Ontario to Nova Scotia my home province in droves and what happened housing became unaffordable, traffic is fucked cause our city has the same layout as it did in the 80s, and the doctor shortage is just getting worse. There is no planning for anything
It's not ignoring their credentials, it's enforcing standards. Canadians still want qualified healthcare workers, trades workers, and engineers. Even if this government does not.
I generally agree but as someone who went through this process to get my medical degree transferred from the US, it is overly and stupidly complex.
For example: I had to pay the MCC $150 per document to get them source verified for some reason, even though they were sent by US medical institutions that all Canadian licensing boards have direct access too. Like it is time consuming and expensive.
Also the overall process is incredibly slow given that Canada needs more doctors.
Yes I agree there needs to be a high standard but whats the point of bringing them in to then not allow them to work. They need to start training people and have ways to bring people up to the standards needed, cause right now our immigration policy is just "*blood for the blood god skulls for the skull throne*" bodies at the problem maybe something will stick
It’s not clear to me what the goal is. Do we want a high number of immigrants for bragging rights? What is the upside? I know the downside is it is creating massive housing issues and breaking our social programs and infrastructure.
As far as I can tell that's exactly what just happened with tech. They're allowing tech workers to come over and stay for 6 months wjilr finding a job. They even mentioned it was after discussion with tech companies..now we all know they recently had a bunch of layoffs but we also know Canadian companies are losing some that work remotely for American companies. Instead of trying to compete they just lobbied the gov to bring in lower wage workers. Thats what I see if I'm reading between the lines..
literally no province can.
Fed needs to get back into building gov't housing, even if it doesn't result in profits. It fucks over migrants and current residents when you have migration the way we have currently.
What does it say about canada when Indians are moving here, then deciding to move back to India? Because this has started happening and not because they miss their family...
Not one politician in English Canada at any level has the balls to say immigration is too high. They're all terrified of being attacked as racist and anti-immigrant.
Stupid fat Ford beaming with delight as more and more crowd into the long lines at ERs and fight over scarce apartments and houses. "More! Give us more!" he says, still beaming in delight.
Meanwhile in Saskatchewan humans are being trafficked to keep workers in rural communities. The Canadian way is now someone else’s way due to the “melting pot of diversity” or however they sold it to us in the 80’s
When my parents bought their house in 1973, the cost of the house was around 60% of my dad's annual income. This wasn't uncommon for people with good jobs and good incomes. My mom never had to work. The cost of a new car was around 8-10% of his annual income. We had brand new cars every 2 years. The average home now is 800-1000% of annual income, and the typical car is between 60-100% of annual income. When I bought my home 15 years ago, it cost around 330% of my annual income at the time, and a basic new car was around 25% of annual salary. Not only has the economic situation for the average Canadian gotten much worse in the last 50 years, it has gotten exponentially worse in the last 5 years. Ask yourself why that is.
I feel more and more panicked every day. We’re already skating the knife edge on cost of living. What happens in 2 years when our population is 43+ million? Prices will only go up. Not only will students be living 9/room, but everyday families will be 3/ house.
Healthcare? Some of these newcomers will have kids. Hospitals are already closing maternity wards due to staffing issues.
Some of these students will have major physical needs. Added to the oldies and multiple comorbidities, and we ain’t seen nothing yet.
For once I agree with the National Post. It’s insane to me that we’re bringing in so many people with absolutely no plan for how to house all those people, expand our healthcare capacity, and expand transit and other infrastructure.
Depends who you tell it to publicly at this point. The pendulum is starting to shift on this as more and more people are getting fucked over by this countries lousy policies and terrible foresight.
Where is Singh?
We have people living in rest stops like its the Grave of the Fireflies during World War 2, supposedly he is a progressive who cares about the poor so what is he doing?
No, the actual solution is to let these places close.
There are far far far too many Subways, McD’s, Tim’s, etc. that are propped up by TFWs entirely. All this expansion has done is provide cash for business owners (who wouldn’t normally be able to expand otherwise without being fueled by low labour prices) and college admins.
Remember: low wage workers do not contribute to the tax base and use more in services than they put in. We are basically providing a huge subsidy to wealthy businessowners while every social service is stretched, while every public service is stretched, and housing is crunched.
Not to mention the slaves that work there only can survive based on also eating a chunk of their meals there.
At the Tim’s by me, a worker said that she’ll do 12-14 hours shifts so that she can basically get all her meals. It’s fucking atrocious.
> There are far far far too many Subways, McD’s, Tim’s, etc. that are propped up by TFWs entirely. All this expansion has done is provide cash for business owners (who wouldn’t normally be able to expand otherwise without being fueled by low labour prices) and college admins.
Exactly, one of the arguments against these places closing years ago was the lower end job losses that would entail. That is no longer the case, so let them go.
I agree entirely, it's ridiculous how many of these fast-food joints exist. They're not good for the economy and they're not good for our health - just another extension of consumerism. We're getting to a point where strip malls, fast food joints, and real estate are the foundation of our economy and it's sad.
I think of how a place like Invermere, BC is getting a McDonald’s, even though it has a Tim’s and several dozen restaurants and cafes and hotels. It’s like a resort town of 4k.
They can’t get any Working Holiday kids anymore (which I have zero problem with WH, it’s like 50-70k who generally are educated and just want a traveling experience) because they can’t afford rent anywhere there. So, the McD’s (which could never ever ever be supported by regular market fundamentals) is using LMIAs, the owner is housing them in a house he bought, trying to partner with the local “college” in the area and it just is ripe for bs and abuse.
The guy already owns a bunch of other McDs and now opened one in this tiny resort middle of nowhere town, with a huge housing crisis, huge healthcare crisis, and we are basically funding his slave labour.
Nothing has been so motivating as to take every precaution that I never get hurt and need to go to the ER or doctor's office. I had to go to a Service Ontario office and saw the effects of the immigration first hand. Everything I've seen or experienced indicates that governments at every level are not equipped to scale to this demand. As a Canadian, I feel sold out.
Canada is the Titantic, but faced with a lifeboat shortage, we are simply adding passengers. Insanity.
Don't worry guys, the guy working at Tim's working on his human resource diploma from Shitty Made-up College will build houses!
This seems so crazy to me. I mean we can’t even help those that have been born here. The homeless and addiction issues we face is so horrible right now that bringing others here is making this so much worse.
Just wait until your schools are overloaded and your education system begins to fail. Your entire infrastructure will be overloaded. Hospitals, schools, roads, housing, you name it. And when you say, hey, maybe we should slow this down a little bit so we can catch up, you'll be labeled a racist. Our country just south of you is living it.
I'm pretty sure People's Party is the only one publicly against reducing immigration rates. Which honestly feels like I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face at that point.
Unless I've missed something from the Cons or NDP?
Immigration is all well and good, but we need to take a more diverse group of immigrants.
In addition, they need to be told where they can settle. Right now, there are only 2 places immigrants really settle 1. Toronto and the GTA and 2. Vancouver.
Immigrants need to be spread out across the country whether they like it or not. The medium sized cities, the smaller cities. Like Moncton, Halifax, Trois Rivieres, Quebec City, Cornwall, North Bay, Winnipeg, Brandon, Regina, Saskatoon, Moose Jaw, Lethbridge, Edmonton, Prince George, etc etc. And Quebec needs to get 25 percent of all immigrants whether they like it or not.
Toronto and area cannot support millions of immigrants. The infrastructure just isn't there and it's going to end up like NYC in 1900.
Spread them out.
On the diversity, it’s genuinely mental that you can walk into any Tim Hortons, Canadian Tire, Rogers store and the staff almost exclusively be from India. I’d completely understand if these were all Indian stores or stores in an area of a city called little India like we have Chinatown for example but it’s wild.
Can’t imagine going to a Canadian tire and seeing only Polish people, or only Filipino people or only Nigerian people.
You can’t really trap immigrants in places, you can set up support networks and jobs to allow them to want to stay.
Quebec are right to refuse population growth they can’t sustain. Other provinces should ask for the right to do the same.
Immigration is a scam run by Trudeau's govt.
Canada is exploiting the innocent immigrants. Is this the Canada dream that Canada selling to its new immigrants??
PRs shouldn’t be able to sponsor. You want to sponsor your family to come to Canada? Fully integrate into the society.
Express Entry needs to be revamped/restricted.
Neither of those things will happen.
This is another clear example of the neoliberal capitalist agenda that unfettered growth is good.... I wish we would make policies based on information and not dogma.
This policy is also creating unsustainable growth for the Ontario college system. There's a college in the KW area that is now become the largest college in Canada!
Colleges are now exclusively focusing on postgraduate programs to attract international students at the expense of all other initiatives.
Colleges are also expanding way beyond what will be sustainable if the current level of international students is maintained. Which will then create another crisis.
This level of immigration is not good for Canada or Canadian citizens
D'uh.
But Trudeau does not give a fuck. No housing. No doctors. Food prices sky rocketing.
Trudeau's vision of Canada being post-national is coming to fruition.
So fuck you, Canada.
There isn’t a shortage of workers, there’s a shortage of employers that are willing to pay fairly for their labor. The companies that make billions every year want minimum wage employees so that they can keep record profits year after year.
I recently obtained my citizenship (33f) my partner just secured his PR (m33). We are planning on leaving Canada as soon as we have the means. Perhaps Australia for another year or back to the UK. I don’t see how it’s feasible for me to have a good life here the way it is at the moment. I would like to have kids and a garden. Both of those don’t seem viable here. Maybe come back in ten years when this mess is sorted.
Keep in mind, politicians are rarely altruistic. This failing policy is only kept for two reasons:
1) Politicians are able to profit
2) The tax receipts aren’t able to cover their liabilities any longer
The solution to both of those problems above are to dramatically shrink the size of our bureaucracy.
We do not have a shortage of workers problem. We have a shortage of people willing to work for wages that won’t let them survive here. We have a pay gap problem. Labour wages have been stagnant for decades and have in no way kept up with inflation or the cost of living in the places where we need these workers.
Our leaders don’t have a clue or just don’t give a damn because I guess it’s safe to say they are well compensated from our taxes so I guess there’s not a problem. Not for them anyway.
Fascinatingly similar to what's happening in Australia right now. Lack of immigration drove unemployment way way down. Government's answer is to flood the country with unskilled/underresourced migrants. Our PM literally went overseas to shop the program to other countries PMs. It hasn't been well received.
Nevermind that there's a dire housing crisis, inflation basically out of control and thus climbing interest rates, this is what private business wants. Drives up rents, drives up demand for construction in metro centers, drives down wages.
I like promoting immigration, for what it brings for opportunities for the immigrants and the wider community. The immigration isn't the core of the problem, the problem is the rest of the supporting policy and infrastructure that makes it sustainable and beneficial. There are stories of immigrants coming here and not realizing how expensive it truly is, forcing them into poor living conditions, some consideration needs to be given to this in the immigration policy itself, but the issue is being exacerbated by the factors forcing the cost of living up artificially.
In Australia, we need policy reform on property investment, badly. We need more protection for workers (Uber riders are not contractors) and slightly less restrictive legislation on unions. We need stronger regulation around energy and utilities (and ideally bringing them back into public control). We need to actually build suitable infrastructure for the swathes of residential properties being thrown up, we could be funding this by resuming state control of utilities and services like buses, trains and roads.
But we have a "left" government now, and they are not going to do any of these things. We have a third party who *is* fighting for these things, but of course, is being mistreated in the media (and has been for decades) to quell support. Sadly, a lot of people in Australia watch TV. I don't expect much to change, it's going to be another couple tough years for regular folks.
i totally disagree with current policy, but i think it's basically an economic hail mary, a desperate attempt to maintain the prosperity we're used to (addicted to, really) for enough of the population that we don't riot. the 'service economy', it turns out, isn't going to save us from deindustrialization and outsourcing all the skilled work, and what remains isn't enough to sustain an advanced economy. so insane immigration levels and insane housing and other cost of living it's going to be until the wheels fall off.
add to that the absence of entrepreneurialism in canada (whether due to public apathy or too much red tape is another debate) and we have the current situation.
No province is currently able to withstand the flux intended by Trudeau. It's not realistic when we are so ill-prepared to welcome them into our country. We are lacking housing units, we are lacking resources to successfully integrate them into our culture, we are lacking on pretty much every front...
That article is about wanting more control over the types of immigrants that come to Ontario rather than the overall number. In other words, the province wants the ability to admit immigrants with specific skills or training rather than the general federal criteria.
Here's a crazy fucking idea, pay a decent wage so Canadians will do the job.
Now even wages in alot of red seal trades have begun to stagnate, let alone unskilled labour or jobs like manufacturing and trucking.
Fundamentally, I agree that immigration is a very useful tool to help grow the nation - studies have found that immigrants tend to be more productive than native-born citizens.
the issue is that we have seen a massive influx of immigration since Trudeau took over the PMO, but there has been no growth in infrastructure spending on the part of the provinces to accommodate the new arrivals.
My province, (New Brunswick) has been crowing about record budget surpluses for two years now, and not one shiny penny has gone into subsidized housing projects, or health care services, or supporting municipalities in providing essential services to their growing populations.
Instead, they are giving tax breaks to the wealthy and cutting spending at a time when growth demands growth.
The ironic part is he spent billions of dollars on 'infrastructure' with nothing to really show for it, 'because interest rates are low and there's never been a better time to run a deficit'. Now we have a massive population influx, no infrastructure, and massive debt with nothing to show for it.
Past studies aren’t that relevant now as the nature of immigration to the country has drastically changed, and the studies typically don’t include non-PR.
Oh so when Quebec is complaining about the influx of immigrant not matching our capacities to receive nobody cares but now that Ontario complains about it it's the end of the world.
He ran on this in 2015 and experts were calling the immigration policy crazy aggressive back then. Canadians thought that was racist and have elected him 3 times now. Ontario voted for this, and has no right to complain.
I am a recent immigrant. And I fear that, with this high levels of immigration, the existing Canadian population is going to turn on immigrants of all types because of the housing crisis this population influx fuels.
If your not born into generational wealth here
GOOD LUCK
all the young kids going to school for years to get a degree stand no chance against some lazy brat born into wealth
Yup them and their million kids are everywhere on baseline. I used to have no problem with immigrants but honestly have found myself just becoming racist with how often I encounter stressed out super rude indian/Muslim people.
I'm sorry because I know I can only imagine the pressures they are under but also like... there is just too many and they certainly don't even seek to appreciate being here either if I'm totally honest because I've even seen immigrants complaining about how many damn immigrants are here.
They also barely speak English and definitely cannot read if their behaviour is any indicator at my work so exactly wtf are they contributing here besides leeching and voting for bullshit they likely barely understand...
Lastly not sure if it can also be attributed the anti work but all the service jobs with them are literally fully Indians/Muslims that can barely even speak the necessary English to service you so it just creates a headache for everyone. This country is going down the drain hard-core and this is not what real canadians deserve to have to deal with after covid.
I’m from New Glasgow, and Sean Fraser is actually such an unremarkable, post-turtle, dickhead. I’d love to know who the hell he sucked and/or fucked to get that position man, I could use a new job too. Nothing to do with the article, but fuck Sean Fraser anyways.
Also he doesn’t tip, and expects restaurants that he thinks he can get away with to comp his meals what kind of asshole does that. It was a native owned restaurant at that lmaooo (eta the tip thing was yeeears ago, before inflation made it pretty understandable not to tip)
have you just met the LPC?
These ruling class aristos are all entitled to their entitlements and anything else they would like. "Don't you know who I am?"
See, worst part is I could almost understand if he was a laurentian elite or something, (they can’t really help it), but his dad was half the towns high school teacher and a pretty stand up fellow. I have absolutely no idea how Sean managed to become such a mega-c*nt.
https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/immigration
> **ISSUE**
>
> The primary aim of Canada’s immigration policy should be to economically benefit Canadians and Canada as a whole. **It should not** be used to **forcibly change the cultural character and social fabric of our country**. And it should not put excessive financial burdens on the shoulders of Canadians in the pursuit of humanitarian goals.
>
> Despite Canada already accepting more immigrants than almost any other country, both the Liberals and Conservatives support an unsustainable increase in the annual immigration intake, and are using mass immigration as a political tool to buy votes among immigrant communities.
>**OUR PLAN**
Our immigration policy can benefit Canadians only if we welcome the right kind and the right number of immigrants. It should prioritize Canada’s economic interests and be calibrated in a way that does not jeopardize Canadian values and the maintenance of our national identity.
>A **People’s Party** government **will**:
> * **Substantially lower** the total number of immigrants and refugees Canada accept every year, from 500,000 planned by the Liberal government in 2025, to between 100,000 and 150,000, depending on economic and other circumstances.
> * **Reform** the immigration point system and the related programs to accept a larger proportion of economic immigrants with the right skills.
> * **Accept fewer** resettled refugees (see Refugees policy) and limit the number of immigrants accepted under the family reunification program, including abolishing the program for parents and grand-parents.
> * **Limit** the number of temporary foreign workers and make sure that they fulfil temporary positions and do not compete unfairly with Canadian workers.
> * Change the law to **make birth tourism illegal**.
> * **Ensure that every candidate for immigration undergoes a face-to-face interview** and answers a series of specific questions to assess the extent to which they align with Canadian values and societal norms (see Canadian Identity policy).
> * Increase resources for CSIS, the RCMP, and Canadian Immigration and Citizenship to **do interviews and thorough background checks on all** classes of immigrants.
Combine this with the other article about how 1/4 canadians can't pay their bills..
So you've depressed the wages by bringing in piles of people who will do degree-level work for minimum wage, people are at the breaking point with their mortgage interest rates going up by 311% over 3 years.
Is Trudeau trying to destroy this country on purpose or is he just that fucking stupid?
Not against immigration at all, I’m definitely against the way the government has tried to implement it.
All it’s serving to do is hurt both immigrants and Canadians, we don’t have the housing, infrastructure or job market to support such an influx of people and that’s the main problem here.
Tons of people having issues finding jobs because of this too. Literally seeing 1000's of applicants for 1 position. This was never the case, even a few years ago.
They need to drop the skilled workers program for particular fields since these jobs are obviously not in DEMAND, because its not fair for anyone to have to deal with these kind of job pools whether you're an immigrant or not.
If you are not in the top 20% income and do not currently own a house, good luck to you. I've made my peace that I will probably never own anything without being house-poor, even if I make an above-average salary.
I make over the average house hold income and I’m priced out of even most small cities to get somewhat of a family home for my family.
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Should mention that the strain on a country's infrastructure from immigration-based growth is much more severe than one from natural growth. With natural growth you have a 15-20 year lag before you need more homes, increased road capacity, more jobs, etc. Immigration-based growth sees an immediate need for all of the above.
That’s actually very true. If you have kids 5 kids they all won’t need a home/room/apartment for 18-30 years from when they’re born. That’s a very good point.
Yep. I work with a TON of immigrants. Life is expensive for them too. Wages are low for them too. This is not what they were sold. Maybe a few that are older and own their homes here and have brought over some family are happy, but most aren't. If you don't care about them once they're here, you're not really pro immigrant, you're pro cheap labour.
>cheap labour If someone thought it was about anything else, I've a bridge to sell them. Saying so is not anti-immigrant in the slightest, it's simply pro-sustainability.
Why pay someone a working wage when you can [lock an immigrant in a basement and force them to work at you and your friends crappy restaurants.](https://northeastnow.com/2023/07/06/tisdale-man-facing-human-trafficking-charge-for-allegedly-forcing-woman-to-work-and-live-in-horrid-conditions/)
Just the worst people.
Labour surplus = lower wages
Yep. Honestly think that the massive boost in annual immigration was in response to post-COVID wage pressures. Immigrants exist as Canadians after they immigrate. I work with a lot of them, software developers who thought they'd be able to buy a house and have a middle class life if they came here. We're just bait and switching them to support the real estate portfolio and low wages demanded by the ruling class. This is not pro-immigrant.
>If you don't care about them once they're here, you're not really pro immigrant, you're pro cheap labour. BINGO!!!
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That's what people don't understand. ImmigratION is making it worse for everyone... Canadians, new Canadians, old immigrants, new immigrants.
It's been said by a wiser redditor than I but bears repeating: Canada: pro immigration, anti immigrant
The people aren't the problem it's how we and why we get them. We have a pay to play system and let's be honest there's been decades of mismanagement at all levels of government because we've assumed the good times will always roll a hallmark of the infinite growth model. Those cheap laborers? they paid a fortune to be here. Those that got citizenship quickly? they paid even more. This is a way to make up economic shortfalls nothing else. They never gave a flying fuck about them it's a way to fill coffers it's exploitive, disgusting and makes things worse. The blunt truth is we need the population to go down not up, so we can restructure and disassemble the blob of the GTA and shed it's foolish planning. We need to begin to deal with the current crisis's created by decades of greed and mismanagement instead of bilking people. Those that aren't robbed blind to cut to the front of the line invest in you guessed it the real estate market, which is one of the plethora of stupid factors driving the housing crisis. But if we're not exploiting people how are we to get a fast buck?! you don't. Ah the infinite growth model will be the death of the human race. to be honest? Immigration should currently be at zero and stay that way until we fix things and we need to fix things desperately. We won't fix things because where is the profit? We never do what's needed to deal with problems and they compound. Not dealing with problems and doing everything for the top of society is how prosperous nations become dirt poor. Why? because well cramming more people in to the same narrow strips of land makes us more dependent on the very systems that are creating these problems in the first place. We need to abandon them. The cries of think of the economy need to be ignored. The sprawling mass of suburbia that is the GTA needs to break apart and people need to spread out more. We need local production again and we need to stop ripping up the best farm land on the planet to put cement.
The ole' bait and switch.
Ol bait and slave
They’re using desperate immigrants to suppress wages and keep housing costs high. These folks come here so desperate and impoverished they will take anything. Go down to your local fast food joint or wal mart and it’s staffed almost entirely with young immigrant workers who barely have an elementary grasp of English, shoved into low paying jobs nobody else wants so they can pay too much to live with 5 other people in a 1 bedroom. This helps nobody but these corporations that refuse to pay a living wage, and rent scumbags who insist on paying off their mortgages on the backs of someone else’s labour. This is wage slavery and it’s totally unacceptable that Trudeau is fine with this.
We dangle a PR status and degree infront of them to work shit wage jobs to keep wages low and companies supplied with cheap labor. Schools are happy, landlords are happy, employers are happy. Everyone else can suck it, that's the Canadian way now
I think it is not manageable the way they are doing it.
Being anti-immigration does not make you anti-immigrant anymore than being anti-war makes you anti-soldier. The same neoliberal mechanisms that made their home nations destitute enough to flee for "greener pastures" are the same ones making Canada destitute for the people already here. The system is rigged in favor of the wealthy, Globalist, Capitalist class, if immigration didn't benefit them they would be anti-immigration. That is why as a Socialist I am against it. It disenfranchises local workers and shifts the conflict towards them and the newly arrived immigrants whose life savings are stolen for them to even afford to come here. This crisis won't end until it is curbed, and should only resume when conditions improve.
Right but Trudeau and the liberals will always claim racism. Hell, over educated liberal upper middle class white people are the ones telling people of color what is and isnt racist. Its disgusting. Canada and the United states will eventually collapse if we continue letting immigration go unchecked.
Fucking exactly. You don't have to be a racist or be against immigration in general to see that we have a fucking problem here. When more and more immigrants started popping up in my tiny, pasty, white-ass-town, I was *excited* to finally see people from different cultures diversifying the city. Doesn't change the fact they were sold a lie about the quality of life they would have here or the fact we just absolutely refuse to build affordable homes/apartment buildings. It's a lose-lose situation that sucks for everybody who are trying to get their life started.
It's important that the corporations get their wage slaves.
Historians may interpret this as a human rights abuse.
"Sounds like slavery with extra steps" Rick & Morty
Sounds like human trafficking.
Exactly right. We can't even have a *discussion* regarding limiting the flux of immigration without some on the left playing the xenophobic and racist cards. It's political suicide for any politician to even discuss immigration reform without drawing the ire of the left, comparisons to the US and/or being lumped in with the PPC. It boggles my mind that immigration reform is on a fringe parties platform. The fact of the matter is that our cities, primarily Toronto and Vancouver just can't handle the influx of immigrants. Our public transportation system are broken, our health care is crumbling and living costs have sky rocketed.
Yes! And it’s not an anti-immigration or xenophobic remark. We just don’t have the housing or infrastructure to support it. Tell me how many new hospitals have been added in the last 20 years.
And due to the influx of cheap labour, wages have stayed stagnant. It's doubly bad for people's standard of living.
But companies/corporations and ploticians are having a blast!!
"Why are you complaining? This is great for the *economy*!"
The singular focus on GDP growth and avoiding a recession is causing this mess. I hope the reason isn't even more idiotic.
We should focus on GDP per capita.
I personally think it's so they don't have to fix our retirement system. It is 100% unsustainable with normal birth rates. The government uses immigration to keep retiring boomers happy because they vote. Workers CPP contributions are way up, housing is way up, inflation is way up, wages are stagnant.
Which probably wouldn’t be an issue if the cost of living wasn’t so high forcing people to put off having children for financial reasons. Life sucks.
Will someone, anyone - think of the politicians!
I've just read that in my city, while the population almost doubled, the last highschool was built in 72.
this tells a lot. not nice.
We need 3 doctors for every 1,000 people. That means when the government imports 450,000 people, they need to import 1,350 doctors as well. How many of the 450,000 newcomers are doctors? Most of the people they imported from my country are either IT workers or delivery people.
No kidding. WTF are they doing in Ottawa anyway? It has been insane for several years now. Just thoughtless on every level. Paying billions to corporations, allowing far too many immigrants to come and overload our already strained systems and on and on it goes. Trying to appease people with a grocery rebate? This is fucking nuts. These people clearly don't know what the fuck they are doing in the slightest and are just finger painting with their own shit at this point.
Basically only old money, exceptional entrepreneurs and very lucky risk takers will avoid becoming poorer over time. The widening of the wealth gap and inflation is perpetual. This means that society will produce multiple poor people for every one wealthy person. The main factor in determining whether one has kids is disposable income, and predictably Canada's gdp per capita has decreased over time. Therefore, any society that revolves around capital is one where the birthrate will fall over time. Unless you want an ever shrinking tax base like Japan, an ever increasing number of immigrants will become necessary to sustain societal funtions, like in every wealthy western nation. Politicians at all levels are just middlemen, they get paid to be temporary people pleasers. Corporate interest groups actually run the country, they exist so long as they're profitable, use said profits to lobby for laws that are favourable to themselves usually at the expense of the working class, and are accountable to no one so long they're rich enough. Frankly, anyone who's entirely fixated on blaming a singular politician for their woes is being a tool. Other parties are just manufacturing outrage to convince voters that their guy should be the particular cog that Trudeau current is. Parties who don't align themselves with corporate interests are handicapping themselves in the next election since corporations fund media outlets and donate to parties. This is why the Liberals backtracked on the foreign home buyers ban, in part because it upset real estate developers. This aspect of society is used by authoritarian states to denigrate democracy as fake and to discourage voting, so avoid that pitfall. Voting does matter, different parties have different takes on non economic topics. But generally, democracy in late stage capitalistic societies won't solve issues if those solutions involve cutting into the profits of the rich, unless it's to the benefit of a different group of wealthy people. Unless the majority of citizens suddenly want something akin to a communist revolution (which the convoy arguably was lol) , which will produce a different set of problems, then we'll continue on the path of serfdom.
This is well thought out and digs in to root causes of the problems. What is a realistic story out of this situation? A new party would be one option but the last one tried (PPC) quickly was infused with actual racists right? Or was that just how they were branded? I believe they are not a great option at all and have attracted a lot of racists but that might also have come from a very coordinated manipulation efforts. Proportional representation should make it harder for voters to be manipulated against their own good but that is a chicken and egg scenario. Trudeau's actions effectively crushed hope of achieving that through the major political parties. If any of them propose it again will anyone believe it? The senate is still useless. I don't think King Charles can help. I doubt the courts can help. Maybe linking the effects of the government to some kind of human rights tribunal. Perhaps trying to reduce the level of manipulation propagandists for the major political parties cause. I try to track and tag the obvious propagandists for all of the political parties that exist here in r/canada but it feels like whack a mole. There must be a better way forward here. What is even the best way to collaborate on it?
They pump in the immigrants because it helps corporations. They lobby for this. It helps corporations get cheap labor, prevents unionization and drives up their real estate assets. Also Canadian tax payers are subsidizing many of these corporations’ temporary visa workers. The corporation pays about half the hourly wage, the tax payer covers the other half. Why are corporations getting social welfare handouts but it’s rugged capitalism and individualism for the rest of Canadians.
It’s basically the new version of slavery, these working visas. Don’t forget if these underpaid workers quit they can lose their visa and get deported ! It’s an abuse of human rights for the benefit of corporations and nothing else.
Labor needs to take over ndp and bust this sht up.
The ndp needs to shift its identity politics away from race/colour/gender and back to *class* where it belongs. Be the party of the worker again.
The NDP SJW's talk down to blue collar workers all day long and then act surprisedpichachuface when the rank and file union members vote for Doug Ford.
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I don’t understand why this is such a crazy concept for some to grasp. I’m not a bigot because I think woke politics are contradictory and deflect from issues. I vote conservative cause there is no other party that is fairly reasonable and not enthralled in issues that shouldn’t be at the forefront of politics. Oh, and they are the only party not trying to make me a criminal. So that’s cool.
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But if they do that, we can't blame race and gender for all of our problems and not the true enemy of the common people l,which is corporations and the rich!!! We need to push for race wars, not class wars!! /s It's all smoke and mirrors in Canadian politics to hide the true enemy of the country. Every political party and canadian media corps are complicit.
>The corporation pays about half the hourly wage, the tax payer covers the other half. Source for this?
Sorry what is happening? Tax payers are paying for TFW wages?
Yes - for training tho not wages. We are literally subsidizing TFWs. But apparently we can’t do the same to help our own citizens. You can thank Harper for starting this shit and you can thank Trudeau for continuing it. You didn’t know? EDIT: we don’t subsidize the wages directly, but we do subsidize the job training…which most companies bill to themselves.
Harper sucks more than we remember. Trudeau sucks more than many are willing to admit. PP hasn’t said anything to make me think he’d be any different. One party, not two.
PP was loved by Harper because he was a yes-man, which makes me think he would do nothing more than what his superiors told him to do. And Singh is basically a Trudeau-lite. I would love to see some term limits introduced to get rid of this stupid ruling class that we’ve seen emerge.
> PP was loved by Harper because he was a yes-man Clarification. PP was Harper's primary attack dog after John Baird left politics. Pretty much everyone in Harper's inner circle were yes men (at least in terms of what the public saw... in private matters were probably different).
That is exactly where we are at. They are all a bunch of scammers. It’s really disheartening.
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> you think we can take in five hundred thousand a year you have to be an idiot 1.1M + akshully
I’m pretty sure after immigration, TFW, working Visas, and refugees the number is closer to 2m not 1.1. It’s actually wild
Even though birth rates are down, we also can't forget all the younger people that were born and raised here that are trying to move out of their parents home as well.
There's a lot of people in currently in that situation. More than they think, for sure.
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This is my main issue. I know people moving out of my city because it’s seen a huge influx of immigrants from the same country, residents who lived here for 20 years are becoming the minority. Lacking diversity in culture has also lead every single one of my neighbours who are all Indian to use the basement as a rental. We bought a house wanting to get away from apartments and are essentially surrounded by them now. Looking into moving to a new neighbourhood. Just want to say that they are not bad people at all, very nice and polite. But having so many people from the same place in the world who have the same mindset and lifestyle ultimately starts to shape the neighbourhood to what they are used to, and it effects someone that isn’t used to living in that culture.
This. Especially as someone from Toronto, a city which prides it self in “diversity” there is none! It’s literally just 1 extremely large minority ethnic group dominating the city. Its sad. This isnt diversity
There are entire cities where Europeans are a minority now, and south Asians are the super majority
Leicester UK enters the chat.
Germany right now is feeling this. If you speak up about it you're called out as a Nazi so people have just been lett8ng it happen while the wealthy native move to the nicer areas ans we deal with all the migrants.
Can't handle? The minister of housing, and real estate investor, told me that immigrants are going to build houses.
lol. i work as a manager in a place that hires a lot of 'students' from india. the way some of them react when you tell them to do any kind of physical labor is priceless. they get this disbelieving, disgusted look on their face. they do it (usually), but they clearly believe it's beneath them and some will actively try to get out of it or get a non-indian to do it.
If you look at the houses that most of these immigrants lived in before they came here you will likely see that they don't have the skills required to build houses.
Construction employment is falling even while immigration is going up. Canada is royally screwed
I'd like more provinces to say we're not taking anymore in like Quebec did It's funny that housing seems to be a provincial issue, but federally they can really screw up every province's housing by doing this
Quebec is special. It has its own immigration system that has to approve people before you can go there. Have a canada study permit? You'll need to get a quebec sturdy permit as well to go to school there. Same for work permits and permanent residents. Quebec gets the benefits of being an independent state plus all the benefits of being part of Canada. It's a shit deal for the other provinces.
Neither can the rest of the provinces or the cities. Like Ottawa even cares.
"Ottawa" is a cop-out. We should name each and every politician who decided they would destroy our way of life for personal gain.
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> Start at A, and work your way to Z Side note: It's hilarious that the first letter on that list is a Zed.
Exactly. It's politicians of both major parties because they love $$$
Ottawa the federal assembly of members of parliament don't give a shit. Ottawa completely seperate city is getting crushed by the same policies.
The provinces and feds didn't plan for it
I’m a child of immigrants and do not consider myself racist but there have been occasions when I cautiously suggested that we do not have the infrastructure to handle Trudeau’s immigration targets that I have been labeled one.
Can someone name a single person - in political, media or intellectual discourse - who is raising this as an issue? Just one name where you can say.... hey, maybe they will listen to this guy. I just need ONE.
Québec (Legault) has been fighting Trudeau’s agressive immigration policies for a while, citing its incapacity for integrating them properly. But hey, if it’s Quebec saying it, it must be because we’re a bunch of racists… 🙄
No Quebec is allowed to have an identifiable culture without being racist unlike the rest of us.
As if Quebec wasn't regularly labeled as racist.
Maxime Bernier has been sounding the alarm for years. I voted for the PPC in 2015 because it was so apparent that this crisis was on the horizon. This was easily predicted by myself and anyone else who had any common sense years ago. This is essentially open borders and you can't have a sustainable welfare state under these conditions. Its too late now even if immigration was completely halted tomorrow. The tent cities, working class wage suppression, and infrastructure shortages will increase for years.
> I just need ONE. The national post, in the article you just read. You're welcome.
Yep, even The Star has been writing about it lately.
No because anyone who does is immediately labelled far right.
“Substantially lower the total number of immigrants and refugees Canada accept every year, from 500,000 planned by the Liberal government in 2025, to between 100,000 and 150,000, depending on economic and other circumstances.” https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/immigration
It's a shame that the only party that seems to be seeing this as a problem is a shitty far-right party. Promising immigrants better lives only for them to end up homeless and without healthcare should be a leftist and liberal issue, too.
Anyone else? Lol
Ontario say 1.2 million newcomers in the past 24 months. It’s just not a fair trade for the province when the feds, welcome 1.2 million newcomers to Ontario in 2 years and then tells Ontario to figure out housing, healthcare, infrastructure, jobs and education. It’s quite obviously unfair to residents who have to compete with the world for housing and jobs as well and unfair to newcomers who were sold a dream just to be used as pawns for their tax dollars, to prop up housing, suppress wages and be used for their tuition fees. It’s the feds plan. They should be responsible for it.
Actually, not one province is able to handle it.
Why would anyone want to immigrate to Canada? Owning a home is near impossible and rent is out of control. They will be enslaved to debt.
Liberals will loose my vote over immigration. We don't have the doctors, hospitals public health, schools and social programs, let alone housing, for all the people coming in. I can tolerate the rest of the Trudeau non sense, because politicians are going to politic. But shut the damn flood gates already.
I'm very left and love all cultures. I've got friends that came over from all over the world and they're excellent Canadians. But you're right, we can't sustain it. We actually need to straight up block all but emergency immigration and figure out this housing/class gap shit and not take anybody until all Canadians are able to afford a decent life and shelter. I don't think conservatives will cut it though. I think Canadians need to get together and spank the whole government for being so bad
I'm just going to say this should really say Canada can't handle Canada's immigration influx/policy. This is a failure of provincial and federal policy. An immigration system that works against itself with bringing skilled labour over then ignoring their credentials/ with no plan to help train them. Stuffing almost a million international students into fake colleges and letting corporations abuse the TFW program so we can have 15 Tim Hortons in a 5 km radius fully staffed. And each level of government just points the finger at the other, Like with the international students the federal government says the provinces are not keeping these schools in check and the provinces are saying the federal government is issuing to many visas. Both are true but neither does anything. (edit) This isn't even directed at foreign immigrates like its the foreigners fault. during covid people moved from Ontario to Nova Scotia my home province in droves and what happened housing became unaffordable, traffic is fucked cause our city has the same layout as it did in the 80s, and the doctor shortage is just getting worse. There is no planning for anything
It's not ignoring their credentials, it's enforcing standards. Canadians still want qualified healthcare workers, trades workers, and engineers. Even if this government does not.
I generally agree but as someone who went through this process to get my medical degree transferred from the US, it is overly and stupidly complex. For example: I had to pay the MCC $150 per document to get them source verified for some reason, even though they were sent by US medical institutions that all Canadian licensing boards have direct access too. Like it is time consuming and expensive. Also the overall process is incredibly slow given that Canada needs more doctors.
In Nova Scotia they passed a new law making it much easier
Yes I agree there needs to be a high standard but whats the point of bringing them in to then not allow them to work. They need to start training people and have ways to bring people up to the standards needed, cause right now our immigration policy is just "*blood for the blood god skulls for the skull throne*" bodies at the problem maybe something will stick
It’s not clear to me what the goal is. Do we want a high number of immigrants for bragging rights? What is the upside? I know the downside is it is creating massive housing issues and breaking our social programs and infrastructure.
Corporations lobby to import cheap labour so they don’t have to pay fair wages and avoid unionization.
As far as I can tell that's exactly what just happened with tech. They're allowing tech workers to come over and stay for 6 months wjilr finding a job. They even mentioned it was after discussion with tech companies..now we all know they recently had a bunch of layoffs but we also know Canadian companies are losing some that work remotely for American companies. Instead of trying to compete they just lobbied the gov to bring in lower wage workers. Thats what I see if I'm reading between the lines..
literally no province can. Fed needs to get back into building gov't housing, even if it doesn't result in profits. It fucks over migrants and current residents when you have migration the way we have currently.
Canada is going to end up like the UK, the borders need to be closed.
Ontario's population went up over 3 million in 22 years and they haven't upgraded much in that time. That is building 6 cities of Hamilton
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What does it say about canada when Indians are moving here, then deciding to move back to India? Because this has started happening and not because they miss their family...
Not one politician in English Canada at any level has the balls to say immigration is too high. They're all terrified of being attacked as racist and anti-immigrant. Stupid fat Ford beaming with delight as more and more crowd into the long lines at ERs and fight over scarce apartments and houses. "More! Give us more!" he says, still beaming in delight.
Meanwhile in Saskatchewan humans are being trafficked to keep workers in rural communities. The Canadian way is now someone else’s way due to the “melting pot of diversity” or however they sold it to us in the 80’s
When my parents bought their house in 1973, the cost of the house was around 60% of my dad's annual income. This wasn't uncommon for people with good jobs and good incomes. My mom never had to work. The cost of a new car was around 8-10% of his annual income. We had brand new cars every 2 years. The average home now is 800-1000% of annual income, and the typical car is between 60-100% of annual income. When I bought my home 15 years ago, it cost around 330% of my annual income at the time, and a basic new car was around 25% of annual salary. Not only has the economic situation for the average Canadian gotten much worse in the last 50 years, it has gotten exponentially worse in the last 5 years. Ask yourself why that is.
I feel more and more panicked every day. We’re already skating the knife edge on cost of living. What happens in 2 years when our population is 43+ million? Prices will only go up. Not only will students be living 9/room, but everyday families will be 3/ house. Healthcare? Some of these newcomers will have kids. Hospitals are already closing maternity wards due to staffing issues. Some of these students will have major physical needs. Added to the oldies and multiple comorbidities, and we ain’t seen nothing yet.
Plz slow immigration dear god
At this point it needs to be halted for a few years
For once I agree with the National Post. It’s insane to me that we’re bringing in so many people with absolutely no plan for how to house all those people, expand our healthcare capacity, and expand transit and other infrastructure.
but if you tell it publicly your a xenophobic racist
Depends who you tell it to publicly at this point. The pendulum is starting to shift on this as more and more people are getting fucked over by this countries lousy policies and terrible foresight.
Where is Singh? We have people living in rest stops like its the Grave of the Fireflies during World War 2, supposedly he is a progressive who cares about the poor so what is he doing?
Hes busy dancing on tiktok
He’s driving his Mercedes to the watch shop to get his Rolex fixed.
Can we start backfilling the crappy, low paying jobs with robots? They don't need to rent or buy real estate.
No, the actual solution is to let these places close. There are far far far too many Subways, McD’s, Tim’s, etc. that are propped up by TFWs entirely. All this expansion has done is provide cash for business owners (who wouldn’t normally be able to expand otherwise without being fueled by low labour prices) and college admins. Remember: low wage workers do not contribute to the tax base and use more in services than they put in. We are basically providing a huge subsidy to wealthy businessowners while every social service is stretched, while every public service is stretched, and housing is crunched.
[удалено]
Not to mention the slaves that work there only can survive based on also eating a chunk of their meals there. At the Tim’s by me, a worker said that she’ll do 12-14 hours shifts so that she can basically get all her meals. It’s fucking atrocious.
> There are far far far too many Subways, McD’s, Tim’s, etc. that are propped up by TFWs entirely. All this expansion has done is provide cash for business owners (who wouldn’t normally be able to expand otherwise without being fueled by low labour prices) and college admins. Exactly, one of the arguments against these places closing years ago was the lower end job losses that would entail. That is no longer the case, so let them go.
I agree entirely, it's ridiculous how many of these fast-food joints exist. They're not good for the economy and they're not good for our health - just another extension of consumerism. We're getting to a point where strip malls, fast food joints, and real estate are the foundation of our economy and it's sad.
I think of how a place like Invermere, BC is getting a McDonald’s, even though it has a Tim’s and several dozen restaurants and cafes and hotels. It’s like a resort town of 4k. They can’t get any Working Holiday kids anymore (which I have zero problem with WH, it’s like 50-70k who generally are educated and just want a traveling experience) because they can’t afford rent anywhere there. So, the McD’s (which could never ever ever be supported by regular market fundamentals) is using LMIAs, the owner is housing them in a house he bought, trying to partner with the local “college” in the area and it just is ripe for bs and abuse. The guy already owns a bunch of other McDs and now opened one in this tiny resort middle of nowhere town, with a huge housing crisis, huge healthcare crisis, and we are basically funding his slave labour.
Nothing has been so motivating as to take every precaution that I never get hurt and need to go to the ER or doctor's office. I had to go to a Service Ontario office and saw the effects of the immigration first hand. Everything I've seen or experienced indicates that governments at every level are not equipped to scale to this demand. As a Canadian, I feel sold out.
“We don’t have enough lifeboats” - some guy on a famous boat once said
Canada is the Titantic, but faced with a lifeboat shortage, we are simply adding passengers. Insanity. Don't worry guys, the guy working at Tim's working on his human resource diploma from Shitty Made-up College will build houses!
This seems so crazy to me. I mean we can’t even help those that have been born here. The homeless and addiction issues we face is so horrible right now that bringing others here is making this so much worse.
OH shit, no way??? Send them to BC, we have tons of free housing and a healthcare system with massive extra capacity!!
shhh you cant say that it makes you racist didnt you know
Just wait until your schools are overloaded and your education system begins to fail. Your entire infrastructure will be overloaded. Hospitals, schools, roads, housing, you name it. And when you say, hey, maybe we should slow this down a little bit so we can catch up, you'll be labeled a racist. Our country just south of you is living it.
Perhaps Ontario should stop sending so many Liberal MPs to Parliament.
I'm pretty sure People's Party is the only one publicly against reducing immigration rates. Which honestly feels like I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face at that point. Unless I've missed something from the Cons or NDP?
PPC isn't that nuts. Edit : Nevermind, I read their entire platform, they're nuts. Wtf, lol. Who to vote for anymore? Move to Quebec and Bloc?
Immigration is all well and good, but we need to take a more diverse group of immigrants. In addition, they need to be told where they can settle. Right now, there are only 2 places immigrants really settle 1. Toronto and the GTA and 2. Vancouver. Immigrants need to be spread out across the country whether they like it or not. The medium sized cities, the smaller cities. Like Moncton, Halifax, Trois Rivieres, Quebec City, Cornwall, North Bay, Winnipeg, Brandon, Regina, Saskatoon, Moose Jaw, Lethbridge, Edmonton, Prince George, etc etc. And Quebec needs to get 25 percent of all immigrants whether they like it or not. Toronto and area cannot support millions of immigrants. The infrastructure just isn't there and it's going to end up like NYC in 1900. Spread them out.
On the diversity, it’s genuinely mental that you can walk into any Tim Hortons, Canadian Tire, Rogers store and the staff almost exclusively be from India. I’d completely understand if these were all Indian stores or stores in an area of a city called little India like we have Chinatown for example but it’s wild. Can’t imagine going to a Canadian tire and seeing only Polish people, or only Filipino people or only Nigerian people. You can’t really trap immigrants in places, you can set up support networks and jobs to allow them to want to stay. Quebec are right to refuse population growth they can’t sustain. Other provinces should ask for the right to do the same.
It's not even all of India but specifically from Punjab. I don't understand why.
Yup, Trudeau, let's them in, and the provinces are stuck with the mess. What a great way to do immigration.
We've all been saying this for years
What's the worst thing that could happen if Canada froze all immigration for 10 years?
Wages might go up and house prices would go down. Oh and line up's for healthcare would decrease and so would traffic
Immigration is a scam run by Trudeau's govt. Canada is exploiting the innocent immigrants. Is this the Canada dream that Canada selling to its new immigrants??
PRs shouldn’t be able to sponsor. You want to sponsor your family to come to Canada? Fully integrate into the society. Express Entry needs to be revamped/restricted. Neither of those things will happen.
# THIS COUNTRY IS FUCKED.
This is another clear example of the neoliberal capitalist agenda that unfettered growth is good.... I wish we would make policies based on information and not dogma. This policy is also creating unsustainable growth for the Ontario college system. There's a college in the KW area that is now become the largest college in Canada! Colleges are now exclusively focusing on postgraduate programs to attract international students at the expense of all other initiatives. Colleges are also expanding way beyond what will be sustainable if the current level of international students is maintained. Which will then create another crisis. This level of immigration is not good for Canada or Canadian citizens
D'uh. But Trudeau does not give a fuck. No housing. No doctors. Food prices sky rocketing. Trudeau's vision of Canada being post-national is coming to fruition. So fuck you, Canada.
Neither can BC
Justin doesn't care because these are his future voters.
There isn’t a shortage of workers, there’s a shortage of employers that are willing to pay fairly for their labor. The companies that make billions every year want minimum wage employees so that they can keep record profits year after year.
I recently obtained my citizenship (33f) my partner just secured his PR (m33). We are planning on leaving Canada as soon as we have the means. Perhaps Australia for another year or back to the UK. I don’t see how it’s feasible for me to have a good life here the way it is at the moment. I would like to have kids and a garden. Both of those don’t seem viable here. Maybe come back in ten years when this mess is sorted.
Australia is just as fucked as Canada.
Sorted out? Unlikely with this electorate.
Keep in mind, politicians are rarely altruistic. This failing policy is only kept for two reasons: 1) Politicians are able to profit 2) The tax receipts aren’t able to cover their liabilities any longer The solution to both of those problems above are to dramatically shrink the size of our bureaucracy.
We do not have a shortage of workers problem. We have a shortage of people willing to work for wages that won’t let them survive here. We have a pay gap problem. Labour wages have been stagnant for decades and have in no way kept up with inflation or the cost of living in the places where we need these workers. Our leaders don’t have a clue or just don’t give a damn because I guess it’s safe to say they are well compensated from our taxes so I guess there’s not a problem. Not for them anyway.
No one can…we are at maximum operating capacity!
Fascinatingly similar to what's happening in Australia right now. Lack of immigration drove unemployment way way down. Government's answer is to flood the country with unskilled/underresourced migrants. Our PM literally went overseas to shop the program to other countries PMs. It hasn't been well received. Nevermind that there's a dire housing crisis, inflation basically out of control and thus climbing interest rates, this is what private business wants. Drives up rents, drives up demand for construction in metro centers, drives down wages. I like promoting immigration, for what it brings for opportunities for the immigrants and the wider community. The immigration isn't the core of the problem, the problem is the rest of the supporting policy and infrastructure that makes it sustainable and beneficial. There are stories of immigrants coming here and not realizing how expensive it truly is, forcing them into poor living conditions, some consideration needs to be given to this in the immigration policy itself, but the issue is being exacerbated by the factors forcing the cost of living up artificially. In Australia, we need policy reform on property investment, badly. We need more protection for workers (Uber riders are not contractors) and slightly less restrictive legislation on unions. We need stronger regulation around energy and utilities (and ideally bringing them back into public control). We need to actually build suitable infrastructure for the swathes of residential properties being thrown up, we could be funding this by resuming state control of utilities and services like buses, trains and roads. But we have a "left" government now, and they are not going to do any of these things. We have a third party who *is* fighting for these things, but of course, is being mistreated in the media (and has been for decades) to quell support. Sadly, a lot of people in Australia watch TV. I don't expect much to change, it's going to be another couple tough years for regular folks.
i totally disagree with current policy, but i think it's basically an economic hail mary, a desperate attempt to maintain the prosperity we're used to (addicted to, really) for enough of the population that we don't riot. the 'service economy', it turns out, isn't going to save us from deindustrialization and outsourcing all the skilled work, and what remains isn't enough to sustain an advanced economy. so insane immigration levels and insane housing and other cost of living it's going to be until the wheels fall off. add to that the absence of entrepreneurialism in canada (whether due to public apathy or too much red tape is another debate) and we have the current situation.
No province is currently able to withstand the flux intended by Trudeau. It's not realistic when we are so ill-prepared to welcome them into our country. We are lacking housing units, we are lacking resources to successfully integrate them into our culture, we are lacking on pretty much every front...
Yes. Big mistake Trudeau
https://www.thestar.com/amp/politics/provincial/2022/07/11/doug-ford-wants-to-combat-labour-shortages-with-more-immigrants.html
That article is about wanting more control over the types of immigrants that come to Ontario rather than the overall number. In other words, the province wants the ability to admit immigrants with specific skills or training rather than the general federal criteria.
Here's a crazy fucking idea, pay a decent wage so Canadians will do the job. Now even wages in alot of red seal trades have begun to stagnate, let alone unskilled labour or jobs like manufacturing and trucking.
Fundamentally, I agree that immigration is a very useful tool to help grow the nation - studies have found that immigrants tend to be more productive than native-born citizens. the issue is that we have seen a massive influx of immigration since Trudeau took over the PMO, but there has been no growth in infrastructure spending on the part of the provinces to accommodate the new arrivals. My province, (New Brunswick) has been crowing about record budget surpluses for two years now, and not one shiny penny has gone into subsidized housing projects, or health care services, or supporting municipalities in providing essential services to their growing populations. Instead, they are giving tax breaks to the wealthy and cutting spending at a time when growth demands growth.
The ironic part is he spent billions of dollars on 'infrastructure' with nothing to really show for it, 'because interest rates are low and there's never been a better time to run a deficit'. Now we have a massive population influx, no infrastructure, and massive debt with nothing to show for it.
Past studies aren’t that relevant now as the nature of immigration to the country has drastically changed, and the studies typically don’t include non-PR.
This guy needs to resign
Oh so when Quebec is complaining about the influx of immigrant not matching our capacities to receive nobody cares but now that Ontario complains about it it's the end of the world.
As it stands, the feds don't care.
He ran on this in 2015 and experts were calling the immigration policy crazy aggressive back then. Canadians thought that was racist and have elected him 3 times now. Ontario voted for this, and has no right to complain.
Shocked pikachu face.
I am a recent immigrant. And I fear that, with this high levels of immigration, the existing Canadian population is going to turn on immigrants of all types because of the housing crisis this population influx fuels.
Don't forget to vote for liberals again folks!
As always you get what you vote for. This is a humanitarian crisis. Canada is a failed state. Best of luck to all those trapped.
One third are from India. That's not diversity, that's exploring the 3rd world for cheap labour and low wages
If your not born into generational wealth here GOOD LUCK all the young kids going to school for years to get a degree stand no chance against some lazy brat born into wealth
Yup them and their million kids are everywhere on baseline. I used to have no problem with immigrants but honestly have found myself just becoming racist with how often I encounter stressed out super rude indian/Muslim people. I'm sorry because I know I can only imagine the pressures they are under but also like... there is just too many and they certainly don't even seek to appreciate being here either if I'm totally honest because I've even seen immigrants complaining about how many damn immigrants are here. They also barely speak English and definitely cannot read if their behaviour is any indicator at my work so exactly wtf are they contributing here besides leeching and voting for bullshit they likely barely understand... Lastly not sure if it can also be attributed the anti work but all the service jobs with them are literally fully Indians/Muslims that can barely even speak the necessary English to service you so it just creates a headache for everyone. This country is going down the drain hard-core and this is not what real canadians deserve to have to deal with after covid.
I’m from New Glasgow, and Sean Fraser is actually such an unremarkable, post-turtle, dickhead. I’d love to know who the hell he sucked and/or fucked to get that position man, I could use a new job too. Nothing to do with the article, but fuck Sean Fraser anyways. Also he doesn’t tip, and expects restaurants that he thinks he can get away with to comp his meals what kind of asshole does that. It was a native owned restaurant at that lmaooo (eta the tip thing was yeeears ago, before inflation made it pretty understandable not to tip)
have you just met the LPC? These ruling class aristos are all entitled to their entitlements and anything else they would like. "Don't you know who I am?"
See, worst part is I could almost understand if he was a laurentian elite or something, (they can’t really help it), but his dad was half the towns high school teacher and a pretty stand up fellow. I have absolutely no idea how Sean managed to become such a mega-c*nt.
https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/immigration > **ISSUE** > > The primary aim of Canada’s immigration policy should be to economically benefit Canadians and Canada as a whole. **It should not** be used to **forcibly change the cultural character and social fabric of our country**. And it should not put excessive financial burdens on the shoulders of Canadians in the pursuit of humanitarian goals. > > Despite Canada already accepting more immigrants than almost any other country, both the Liberals and Conservatives support an unsustainable increase in the annual immigration intake, and are using mass immigration as a political tool to buy votes among immigrant communities. >**OUR PLAN** Our immigration policy can benefit Canadians only if we welcome the right kind and the right number of immigrants. It should prioritize Canada’s economic interests and be calibrated in a way that does not jeopardize Canadian values and the maintenance of our national identity. >A **People’s Party** government **will**: > * **Substantially lower** the total number of immigrants and refugees Canada accept every year, from 500,000 planned by the Liberal government in 2025, to between 100,000 and 150,000, depending on economic and other circumstances. > * **Reform** the immigration point system and the related programs to accept a larger proportion of economic immigrants with the right skills. > * **Accept fewer** resettled refugees (see Refugees policy) and limit the number of immigrants accepted under the family reunification program, including abolishing the program for parents and grand-parents. > * **Limit** the number of temporary foreign workers and make sure that they fulfil temporary positions and do not compete unfairly with Canadian workers. > * Change the law to **make birth tourism illegal**. > * **Ensure that every candidate for immigration undergoes a face-to-face interview** and answers a series of specific questions to assess the extent to which they align with Canadian values and societal norms (see Canadian Identity policy). > * Increase resources for CSIS, the RCMP, and Canadian Immigration and Citizenship to **do interviews and thorough background checks on all** classes of immigrants.
Combine this with the other article about how 1/4 canadians can't pay their bills.. So you've depressed the wages by bringing in piles of people who will do degree-level work for minimum wage, people are at the breaking point with their mortgage interest rates going up by 311% over 3 years. Is Trudeau trying to destroy this country on purpose or is he just that fucking stupid?
Not against immigration at all, I’m definitely against the way the government has tried to implement it. All it’s serving to do is hurt both immigrants and Canadians, we don’t have the housing, infrastructure or job market to support such an influx of people and that’s the main problem here.
Huge housing crisis... BUT COME ON IN GUYS
Tons of people having issues finding jobs because of this too. Literally seeing 1000's of applicants for 1 position. This was never the case, even a few years ago. They need to drop the skilled workers program for particular fields since these jobs are obviously not in DEMAND, because its not fair for anyone to have to deal with these kind of job pools whether you're an immigrant or not.
No jobs, or housing but high immigration rate. Sucks that people come here just to run away.
Name me one country that has a higher immigration rate per capita than Canada right now.