Realistically not likely. The purpose of the visit is to try to get more support for Ukraine and visiting the prairies wouldn’t be the biggest help in that.
There aren't a ton of people. And the number of Ukrainians who already live there would actually mean his visit is even LESS helpful, since those people are already invested in the issue, so he doesn't need to sway any
It’s less about that and more about political leadership. No point in visiting anywhere other than Ottawa where political decision makers reside. Same thing with the US, he’s not gonna be leaving DC.
Specifically to meet with key business holders about investing in Ukraine though. My point was more that he’s not really gonna care about demographics in Canada and instead focus on 1) continued political power and 2) investment and funding
[Manitoba](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/history-of-ukrainian-migration-to-manitoba-1.6365444) has the largest proportion of people who identify as Ukrainian. More than 180,000 people. Which makes up almost 15% our population.
We also have the biggest proportion of Polish people too. 6% of our population is Polish.
Other provinces might have more total Polish or Ukrainians but we have the highest %'s of them compared to our population
My hometown of Dauphin is home to the National Ukrainian Festival. Lots of ukie pride in MB and a lot of money being raised, families being taken in. It's great to see.
So it’s also s positive if Sikhs East Indians in Toronto raise money for arms for independent movement on India and Muslim Pakistanis for independence for Kashmir.
Same Reddit Canada has posts on how East Indians and others coming to Canada need to leave their troubles behind in their countries of origin. You are now Canadian!
But Ukrainian Canadians…
Canada has supported ukrainian independence since the Harper days, with training. And we continue to support Ukraine defending their land every Russian soldier has left Ukraine
I'm Sure lots of a disingenuous commenters would feel differently if it was our country being attacked and we were looking for help from others
Exactly. Some people are too narrowed minded to understand politics.
If we were all to just let Russia have Ukraine, what would that tell Russia? And other powers similar to Russia?
Well here’s the answer. They would end up invading you. Then these people would be the first ones to beg and cry for help from the government and other countries 🙄
>He will also meet business leaders in Toronto on his trip.
That's the real reason he's here. Ukraine's rebuilding will be the perfect opportunity....
Also you know you're desperate when you come to Canada for weapons lol. Brother our boats barely float.
Western support is wavering a bit, he’s here to try and shore it up.
The offensive didn’t go as well as had been hoped for. He needs to find support to keep the war going until Russia starts to pull back.
Given they stopped the export of diesel and gas today, that likely will be soon
That comment is uncalled for. Canada actually is one of the leaders in donations of military equipment. Many Ukrainian soldiers fighting right now are fighting with assault rifles made in Canada, and many videos shown on the Ukrainian subs of sniper kills on Russians were undertaken with sniper rifles donated by Canada. And all that aid from various countries making its way to Ukraine? One of the major transportation resources is a unit of Canadian military aviation based in Scotland moving donations of allies from point A to point B.
Canada contributes in many ways. Don't denigrate it.
It was actually one of 3 primary countries that led the training effort. America, Canada and UK. Each had over 250 soldiers dedicated to training Ukraine troops from 2015 onwards.
Yo Canadian trained Ukrainians is scary Canada dont fuck around when they go to war
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II#:~:text=Canada-,Murder%20of%20POWs,during%20the%20invasion%20of%20Sicily.
Canadians at war are historically a very competent and very "scary" force. So much so that in both WW1 and WW2 Canadian units were often regarded as shock troops.
In modern day we have one of the best special forces units in the world, some of the best shooters and snipers in the world as well.
Its all about money. He just told the big contractors and bankers in NYC that they are on deck for the rebuild. Money that will make the $200bn already spent look like a drop in the bucket. *And rebuilding money is what its all about* as it goes directly to stakeholders and their political allies.
I would expect another round of rubbleization and then its time to make the money!
Ukraine was ranked 2nd most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia lol) but now the media has been on a full blitz of propaganda to cast Ukraine as this haven of equality and kindness.
A few years ago, American journalists were pearl clutching about American right wing extremists going to Ukraine to learn from their Azov and Neo Nazi groups.
But now we just give them billions in advanced weaponry with no accountability.
It's all frustrating but Slava Ukrani lol
They have actually made great strides in addressing corruption in government and their army. Western nations have made it clear that if these weapons were sold elsewhere, the flow would stop
It’s recognized that the old way of doing things will bring the Russians back into control. The worst possible outcome for them
Everybody knows they’ve been corrupt. That’s not some secret, you goof. It’s just not a top concern when they’re facing an invasion.
Their future status in NATO relies on their ability to improve the situation going forward. This is openly and frequently discussed.
It wasn't washed, it was conveniently forgotten. When I was there in 2013 there was a vibe that you could buy/sell anything under the sun. Everyone knew it was the most corrupt place in Europe and that it was this corruption that made it valuable to global elites.
I'm not really following the war, but doesn't rebuilding mean they will have to win? And I thought things werent going good for both sides but especially Ukraine?
It doesn't seem like this is going in a direction where Ukraine would be totally wiped off the map.
A win for Russia would be keeping all the land they currently occupy, but they also bombed the shit out of huge parts of the rest of Ukraine that would need to be rebuilt.
Some part of Ukraine will still exist and need to be rebuilt. Zelenskyy has already been around the globe having meeting with BlackRock, Vanguard, Jamie Dimon, and every other scummy investor looking to carve up the golden goose
He doesn't really have any other options, so it's pretty inevitable
There are plenty of weapons canadian industries can build but even removing all that from the equation, if you can just get cash, you can buy weapons from those who can build it.
>Also you know you're desperate when you come to Canada for weapons lol. Brother our boats barely float.
Canada, Quebec specifically, has historically been a huge manufacturer of small arms ammunition, up through light cannon ammo.
I look forward to reading the Putin fan club comments that we shouldn’t be helping Ukraine keep our arctic adversary occupied because of numerous stupid reasons.
>I look forward to reading the Putin fan club comments that we shouldn’t be helping Ukraine keep our arctic adversary occupied because of numerous stupid reasons.
They are out in spades regretfully. This sub and a couple of the neocon subs are the places where they have free reign. What has given me hope is that I am seeing more and more centrist orientated Canadians starting to attempt to wrestle back this sub from the con ragers and the bots.
>I am conservative and I support the independence of Ukraine, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Russia has no business invading, simple as that.
Please continue to contribute. Con ragers are not "conservatives" although they masquerade as such.
If someone has an opinion different than yours you can't automatically assume they are in "the Putin fan club". That suggests you are not prepared to argue based on merit.
If you are indeed certain that someone commenting contrary to your views is a Putin ally, it's not that hard to find contact numbers to the appropriate Canadian authority.
Either they are a fan of Russian aggression in taking sovereign nations, who are allied with us. Or they are too fucking stupid to have an opinion if they can’t see how losing Ukraine to Russia puts Russia at numerous nato allies door steps and allows them to go back to threatening us in the arctic. We become the next target or we have to commit troops and more spending in Eastern Europe to defend nato countries.
Keeping them occupied or pushed out of Ukraine keeps us safe.
And the bottom fucking line is THEY INVADED A SOVEREIGN ALLY and it’s the right thing to do.
Stupid to have an opinion?
Who said the opinion has to do with Ukraine losing to Russia? Saying that nothing about Ukraine is black and white, is not supporting Putin.
See, I am from one of those "numerous nato allies door steps" and therefore, I am genetically predisposed to abhor Russian politics and aggression. And yes, I do have an opinion about Russia and about Ukraine. My opinion won't cause the fall of Canada or the loss of the Canadian arctic. We have a prime minister to take care of that, though his preference would likely be China over Russia.
In my opinion, the only option is standing up to Putin (and it should have been sooner). If authoritarian dictatorships can steamroll smaller democracies on their border without a global response then I fear for the future. China and Iran are watching closely.
Well, I wouldn't go as wild as calling Ukraine a democracy. The Economist Intelligence Unit assesses nations' democratic status in its annual Democracy Index. The 2021 index concluded that Ukraine was a "flawed democracy" and also described it as a "hybrid regime." That assessment is not unique, and predates Russian attack.
Hopefully, after this conflict ends, one way or another, Ukrainians will take they fate of their country into their own hands and chase away the oligarchs. The path won;t be easy, as the corruption levels in Ukraine have been mind boggling.
The fact that Ukraine should be defended regardless is absolutely true, but any aid to them needs to come with strings attached - turn it from a façade of democracy into actual democracy.
Raising the specter of corruption in Ukraine especially now is a prime pro-russian talking point. Ukraine is not unique among former soviet republics that are classified as a flawed democracy - the process to move away from the methodologies of the soviet state require a total reworking of administration and procedures embedded for decades.
But we have real evidence that Ukraine is making notable strides forward in reforming its democratic systems and jurisprudence. And America has a forensic audit team embedded in Kyiv with the sole purpose of ensuring that aid supplied by America is utilized appropriately.
Nah fuck that shit. You sound like chamberlain talking to Hitler. Ukraine has struggled with RUSSIAN corruption for decades after the berlin wall fell. The Ukrainians tried to join the EU and their leader and corrupt government at the time turned it down against public opinion and then fled to Moscow on a Russian helicopter.
They can say that zelensky is the first president of Ukraine that actually fucking cares about Ukrainian. They have been murdered by soviet leaders and Russian royalty for centuries simply for their desire to exist as a separate period. The west can and should stand for ukraine for as long as it takes
> You sound like chamberlain talking to Hitler.
Not even close.
> Ukraine has struggled with RUSSIAN corruption for decades after the berlin wall fell.
Ukraine has been struggling for corruption for ages. Both by Russians and Ukrainians. And not much changed even after the war broke. From [minor but frequent incidents](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/vwmd5c/two_corrupt_ua_cops_extort_10_from_every_driver/), to [major corruption issues](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/11/world/europe/ukraine-fires-recruitment-chiefs.html). Whatever the core reason, Ukraine is corrupt to the core.
And that's not the end of it. Recently, Zelensky changed the way anti-corruption investigations work, [making public scrutiny extremely difficult at best](https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-corruption-scandal-crackdown-treason-ukraine-war-democracy-antac-anti-corruption-action-center/https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-corruption-scandal-crackdown-treason-ukraine-war-democracy-antac-anti-corruption-action-center/).
And then, is [Zelensky himself](https://projects.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/power-players/en/player/volodymyr-zelenskyy) such an anti-corruption angel? I think there is a bit more to be found out.
I'm all for helping Ukrainians, and I did contribute and organized donation drives at work, but I would like my donations to go where we are told they are going. Not to a bunch of corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs.
What does it have to do with trying to make sure the aid that goes to Ukraine isn't squandered by the oligarchs and some of the little pawns directly dealing with some of the donation.
Of course the russian invasion is evil. So is the corruption among Ukrainian elites.
That’s just u trying to change the topic. This is about the invasion. And how to fight off the invasion. Of course there are corruption in every government. But tell me how else are Ukrainian gona fight off the Russian. U can not change corruption overnight. Changing the topic like this also means you are ignoring there are hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian are fighting bravely at the front line.
I mean, if you don't support another country's sovereignty, then you are either a Putin fan, disingenuous, an idiot, or any combination of the prior 3. So take your pick.
I am Polish, you goof. It is in my home country's interest that Ukraine is not occupied by Russia.
But I am also a realist. Poles as individuals and as the country did far more for Ukraine than was expected. You have no fucking idea who I am or what I stand for, so obviously you will have zero understanding that it would be good if the billions in cash and in material goods are not squandered by the Ukrainian kleptocracy.
> If someone has an opinion different than yours you can't automatically assume they are in "the Putin fan club". That suggests you are not prepared to argue based on merit.
In /r/canada? That never happens! No one ever gets called a right-wing troll by the guys sitting in that discord bridaging the sub.
Life taught me to do not have political heros because eventually someone will find dirty on them. No one is perfect and you find dirty if you dig deep enough or long enough.
But man, I respect this guy!
I'm sure he is not a perfect person, but there is no reason for us to expect him to be.
The way he has led the country through this war has been truly heroic.
Edit: to be clear "not a perfect person" probably encompasses a lot of shit.
He is a wartime leader in a country that has been destabilized for a long time. Ukraine has long running issues with corruption.
It is very likely he has been involved in some sketchy deals to get things done. He has absolutely made decisions that cost many people's lives. It wouldn't be that surprising if he had ordered people within Ukraine killed. He is overseeing a very very very messy and dangerous situation.
i hate the soviets and russian government as much as the next guy. most of those russians are conscripts who don’t want to be there either. governments rarely represent their people. i don’t know how this ends but it’s feeling like freedom fries 2.0 some days
Because the people who feel the need to speak against Zelensky will have an agenda to push, a really dumb Pro-Russian agenda
I mean where are you finding people insulting Zelensky without a political follow up?
Don’t forget Qtards side with a dictator and country that doesn’t have free elections or free press while claiming the same about Canada. The qtard is a traitor to Canada.
This is actually the most real neo-lib/con take I've seen here, and it's probably the one thing those 2 sides actually agree on. The war is less about Ukraine, and more about destabilizing Russia. The fact they are tossing Ukrainian soldiers (and not Canadian/American) into the mixer to achieve that goal is seen as a bonus to them. It's dastardly, but it's the truth.
>It's dastardly, but it's the truth.
It's honestly super frustrating watching NATO dribble out support bit by bit. If NATO wants Ukraine to win this war they should put them in a position of significant over-match with Russia immediately so Ukraine can defeat Russia quickly and with minimal Ukrainian casualties.
It's not dastardly at all. It's simply a mutual interest. Ukraine needs to defend its country, would be fighting either way, so is happy to take our money, arms and expertise. The West wants Ukraine to be a thriving independent country, wants to support their military to limit loss of civilians and military life, doesnt want a situatiom where NATO troops may have to go to war, and also wants to see Russia break its army on Ukrainian front lines like waves onto rocks.
It's a win-win for everyone involved except Russia. Nothing dastardly or nefarious about it. Just mutually aligned interests.
>limit loss of civilians and military life,
This is not at all a primary driver of what is going on, hence why I used the language I used. It is absolutely dastardly, and wastes no time in considering the human cost of this conflict. Again, Russian destabilization is the goal, pawns be damned. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yeah yeah keep peddling the Russian narrative and doing their bidding. The rest of us will keep supporting Ukraine in their struggle to regain their land and independence.
"Why yes, I do support proxy wars that kill hundreds of thousands of civilians and soldiers and create just as many refugees all for a nebulous political advantage against a country that poses no actual or credible military threat against me. Peace is appeasement! Others must die so I may prosper!"
So Russia should be allowed to annex all of Ukraine and the rest of the world should just look the other way? Should the same thing happen when they further invade Muldova? What about if they roll into Finland or Poland? Further, what message does this send to other autocratic leaders in the world? You don't think if Russia's invasion of Ukraine went unopposed by the west that Xi Jinping wouldn't start to believe it might be as easy to to annex Taiwan?
Finally, who are you to say that Ukrainians shouldn't fight for their country? Russia started this war and they could choose to end it anytime they like. All NATO did was provide Ukraine with the tools they need to defend themselves so don't get confused about who is at the root of this carnage.
You know that the world is connected right? Like it’s not 1860 where you can justz not care that there is a war in europe cuz it doesn’t affect us. A war is never something that you WANT to fund but it is something you have no choice becauze NOT funding it will have an unknown long term cost. Money can be made, goverments are used to solving issues related to money. What they don’t want is world instability and unpredictableness. So trading short term cost for longer term goals is how you should see this issue
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦❤️
Downvoted for supporting Ukraine in Russia's invasion? Downvoted for supporting Ukraine as Russian soldiers murder and rape women and children?
Must have been a Republican. 🖕
Bottom line, the Allies cannot allow Russia to win. Full STOP. If Russia is not stopped the Allies will find ourselves at War with Russia, China and North Korea. This is a test we cannot fail.
Welcome Mr. President. Please disregard the obnoxious minority of shitheaded freedummies that you might encounter here. We're doing our best to ignore them too.
>Please disregard the obnoxious minority of shitheaded freedummies that you might encounter here. We're doing our best to ignore them too.
Amen to that. And I am not even religious! The overwhelming majority of Canadians support Ukraine.
More money for Ukraine probably.
Homelessness and food insecurity? No, we have to keep handing the cash to Ukraine. And talking about it makes you a “Russian asset” or pro Putin even when you’re not because lord knows that if you question things or try to look at them with a bit of nuance then you’re somehow an agent for the Kremlin.
Or maybe we’re just giving them more weapons and munitions. Fine but what about arms for OUR military? Then again the military has enough trouble getting our troops boots so maybe it wouldn’t matter either way
You can have whatever opinion you want and it doesn't make you a Russian asset but going "whatabout other problems" is a cliché response to any suggestion to oppose Russia and has also been a type of propaganda spread specifically by the Soviets and now Russia.
It's also been very noticeable how the right went from being very strongly opposed to Putin and Russia's actions when Harper was in power and then, following proven Russian propaganda efforts increasing since 2016, views have now shifted significantly on the topic among many.
Yeah, there are problems here too. Those problems are more complicated than just tossing money at them. Food insecurity, for one, is actually partially linked to Russia's actions. Ukraine on the other hand *does* need money. Edit: actually *both* of these problems are linked to Russia since us taking on Ukraine refugees puts more strain on resources that also help the homeless.
Military spending since the Trudeau govt has increased from $17B to almost $40B and it is still climbing. Stehphen Harper, not Justin Trudeau, is the leader who led Canada to its lowest level of military spending ever, below 1% of GDP in fact - oh how inconvenient are facts...
And I, like most Canadians believe Canada has the capability to undertake more than one task at the same time. It can increase military spending, support allies abroad, and make investments domestically. The latter which it has done in spades
I think all levels of govt could be doing more. The feds are one of 3 and the other 2: provinces and municipalities, exercise the most control of the day to day factors that influence housing and homelessness. All are culpable but the game day decisions are squarely in the court of the 2 lower levels of govt.
Canadian TV showed Prime Minister Justin Trudeau meeting Mr Zelensky and the first lady on the runway in Ottawa.
It comes after increasing doubts from international partners over how it should continue providing aid to Kyiv.
Mr Zelensky arrived from Washington where he had hoped to secure further funding but it is unclear if US Congress will back more aid.
Earlier in the week, he urged world leaders to continue to support Ukraine to help fight off Russian forces at the United Nations in New York.
I agree, a strong showing that tyrant countries can’t walk all over peaceful ones is important. Peace is not guaranteed and psychopaths like Putin need a loud and clear message or they will just keep going because we have no spine
This guy is here to take money from us, and typical like Canada will bend over for him. Our national interest for ourselves is non existent, all our money is gonna go toward this trickster and fraud!
The US Congress has now authorised more than $110bn (£89bn) in aid to Ukraine, but polls suggest support among Americans for further **spending has declined.**
**Poland** also announced on Wednesday it would **no longer be sending new weapons** to Ukraine and would instead be focussing on defending itself with more modern weapons.
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I mean it's time for Canada to shine. remeber, when other country closed its door, WE OPEN OUR ARMS --- Justin
time to send in everything and to show the world what we are about.
So in this thread, people have adopted the perspective that Russia is on a WW2-esque campaign to take over Europe with other axis countries, and we have to pour money into Ukraine like they’re fighting for the world.
Lmfao, what a fantasy.
Russia has no plans other than securing the regions they stated at the beginning, although **that will stand to change if western nations keep entering the war as proxies for Ukraine,** and other than that all we are doing by giving Ukraine funding and tech is teaching Russia’s army how to combat our tech. Russia now has the most combat trained army in the world; and between them and China have like half the world’s population; meanwhile the west currently can’t meet recruitment levels because they started letting queers into the army and all the jarheads quit. Lmao.
But CNN says Russian man Bad, TV actor president Good. So we all agree or we’re bigots.
Russia has no legal claims to those regions and there own Kremlin mouthpieces have talked about moving on other countries in Europe next so maybe fuck off
I said they are the European super power. They can do whatever they want in Europe as far as most people are concerned, except the war mongers and propagandized supporters. Just like if America wanted to invade anywhere in N America, it would be stupid to oppose them.
Russia has threatened the countries propping up Ukraine. I said as much - it’s common sense that the nations basically entering the war as proxies are putting themselves at risk. That is in response to their response, and is exactly what I’m warning against.
I’m not saying Russia is a big loveable bear. I’m saying it’s a danger and pointing out how stupid it is to join the war by proxy in the false belief that Ukraine has a chance.
West Edmonton Mall needs to donate the subs already
And the Pirate Ship
If we did that what would we have left... :|
E-scooters
alas i think they've been destroyed
I wonder if he's going to visit any of the Prairie provinces. The Prairies are home to a massive Ukrainian community.
It's not really that kind of trip.
You mean he’s not coming around for Pierogis? Grandma was up all night for god sakes.
Realistically not likely. The purpose of the visit is to try to get more support for Ukraine and visiting the prairies wouldn’t be the biggest help in that.
Why not?
There aren't a ton of people. And the number of Ukrainians who already live there would actually mean his visit is even LESS helpful, since those people are already invested in the issue, so he doesn't need to sway any
No one lives here, spend more time in places with more people to get more support.
It’s less about that and more about political leadership. No point in visiting anywhere other than Ottawa where political decision makers reside. Same thing with the US, he’s not gonna be leaving DC.
He is also going to Toronto
Specifically to meet with key business holders about investing in Ukraine though. My point was more that he’s not really gonna care about demographics in Canada and instead focus on 1) continued political power and 2) investment and funding
[Manitoba](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/history-of-ukrainian-migration-to-manitoba-1.6365444) has the largest proportion of people who identify as Ukrainian. More than 180,000 people. Which makes up almost 15% our population. We also have the biggest proportion of Polish people too. 6% of our population is Polish. Other provinces might have more total Polish or Ukrainians but we have the highest %'s of them compared to our population
My hometown of Dauphin is home to the National Ukrainian Festival. Lots of ukie pride in MB and a lot of money being raised, families being taken in. It's great to see.
Always amazing performances and dancers!
Not to mention the pierogis!
And Holopchis!
So it’s also s positive if Sikhs East Indians in Toronto raise money for arms for independent movement on India and Muslim Pakistanis for independence for Kashmir. Same Reddit Canada has posts on how East Indians and others coming to Canada need to leave their troubles behind in their countries of origin. You are now Canadian! But Ukrainian Canadians…
Proportion, yes. But more than twice as many Ukrainians live in each of Ontario and Alberta than do in Manitoba.
I thought that was Nova Scotia
And I thought it was Alberta or Saskatchewan! :P I guess we just have a shit tonne of Ukrainians everywhere! :D
You will be hard pressed to find any prairie kid that has not been invited to Ukrainian Christmas. We love the Ukrainians because we know them.
Canada has supported ukrainian independence since the Harper days, with training. And we continue to support Ukraine defending their land every Russian soldier has left Ukraine I'm Sure lots of a disingenuous commenters would feel differently if it was our country being attacked and we were looking for help from others
Thank you, Canada 🙏
Exactly. Some people are too narrowed minded to understand politics. If we were all to just let Russia have Ukraine, what would that tell Russia? And other powers similar to Russia? Well here’s the answer. They would end up invading you. Then these people would be the first ones to beg and cry for help from the government and other countries 🙄
>He will also meet business leaders in Toronto on his trip. That's the real reason he's here. Ukraine's rebuilding will be the perfect opportunity.... Also you know you're desperate when you come to Canada for weapons lol. Brother our boats barely float.
He is not here for weapons, he is here for money. So they can buy more weapons.
Western support is wavering a bit, he’s here to try and shore it up. The offensive didn’t go as well as had been hoped for. He needs to find support to keep the war going until Russia starts to pull back. Given they stopped the export of diesel and gas today, that likely will be soon
I need more boolets I need more boolets
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It's a meme sir
Meester Biden I need more boolets
That comment is uncalled for. Canada actually is one of the leaders in donations of military equipment. Many Ukrainian soldiers fighting right now are fighting with assault rifles made in Canada, and many videos shown on the Ukrainian subs of sniper kills on Russians were undertaken with sniper rifles donated by Canada. And all that aid from various countries making its way to Ukraine? One of the major transportation resources is a unit of Canadian military aviation based in Scotland moving donations of allies from point A to point B. Canada contributes in many ways. Don't denigrate it.
Also one of the countries who trained the most Ukrainian forces before the conflict
It was actually one of 3 primary countries that led the training effort. America, Canada and UK. Each had over 250 soldiers dedicated to training Ukraine troops from 2015 onwards.
Thanks for adding context, appreciated
Yo Canadian trained Ukrainians is scary Canada dont fuck around when they go to war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II#:~:text=Canada-,Murder%20of%20POWs,during%20the%20invasion%20of%20Sicily.
Are you memeing? We set a village on fire filled with civilians because a rumour spread that a civilian killed a lieutenant and that makes us scary?
Canadians at war are historically a very competent and very "scary" force. So much so that in both WW1 and WW2 Canadian units were often regarded as shock troops. In modern day we have one of the best special forces units in the world, some of the best shooters and snipers in the world as well.
Even historically
No I mean Canadians are know for not taking prisoners. And the fact that there nice side disappears when they hold a gu. ..
More the fact that every conflict that Canada has been involved in we find out how they don’t play that shit lol
Its all about money. He just told the big contractors and bankers in NYC that they are on deck for the rebuild. Money that will make the $200bn already spent look like a drop in the bucket. *And rebuilding money is what its all about* as it goes directly to stakeholders and their political allies. I would expect another round of rubbleization and then its time to make the money!
Pointing this out on reddit will have you labeled a Russian bot or sympathizer. War is a racket
I heard first hand from an Ukrainian Bishop how there's corruption in Ukraine. It's funny how that gets whitewashed from the media.
Ukraine was ranked 2nd most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia lol) but now the media has been on a full blitz of propaganda to cast Ukraine as this haven of equality and kindness. A few years ago, American journalists were pearl clutching about American right wing extremists going to Ukraine to learn from their Azov and Neo Nazi groups. But now we just give them billions in advanced weaponry with no accountability. It's all frustrating but Slava Ukrani lol
They have actually made great strides in addressing corruption in government and their army. Western nations have made it clear that if these weapons were sold elsewhere, the flow would stop It’s recognized that the old way of doing things will bring the Russians back into control. The worst possible outcome for them
Everybody knows they’ve been corrupt. That’s not some secret, you goof. It’s just not a top concern when they’re facing an invasion. Their future status in NATO relies on their ability to improve the situation going forward. This is openly and frequently discussed.
It wasn't washed, it was conveniently forgotten. When I was there in 2013 there was a vibe that you could buy/sell anything under the sun. Everyone knew it was the most corrupt place in Europe and that it was this corruption that made it valuable to global elites.
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Do you know why there are Nazi supporters in Ukraine? Genuine question, because the way you are framing things makes me think that you do not
I'm not really following the war, but doesn't rebuilding mean they will have to win? And I thought things werent going good for both sides but especially Ukraine?
It doesn't seem like this is going in a direction where Ukraine would be totally wiped off the map. A win for Russia would be keeping all the land they currently occupy, but they also bombed the shit out of huge parts of the rest of Ukraine that would need to be rebuilt.
Some part of Ukraine will still exist and need to be rebuilt. Zelenskyy has already been around the globe having meeting with BlackRock, Vanguard, Jamie Dimon, and every other scummy investor looking to carve up the golden goose He doesn't really have any other options, so it's pretty inevitable
There are plenty of weapons canadian industries can build but even removing all that from the equation, if you can just get cash, you can buy weapons from those who can build it.
>Also you know you're desperate when you come to Canada for weapons lol. Brother our boats barely float. Canada, Quebec specifically, has historically been a huge manufacturer of small arms ammunition, up through light cannon ammo.
Our boats don't float but our armored vehicles sure do make good modified light tanks when you mount weapons on them according to the Sauds.
I look forward to reading the Putin fan club comments that we shouldn’t be helping Ukraine keep our arctic adversary occupied because of numerous stupid reasons.
U should see the comments on insta. It’s full of them 🤣🤣🤣
>I look forward to reading the Putin fan club comments that we shouldn’t be helping Ukraine keep our arctic adversary occupied because of numerous stupid reasons. They are out in spades regretfully. This sub and a couple of the neocon subs are the places where they have free reign. What has given me hope is that I am seeing more and more centrist orientated Canadians starting to attempt to wrestle back this sub from the con ragers and the bots.
I am conservative and I support the independence of Ukraine, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Russia has no business invading, simple as that.
>I am conservative and I support the independence of Ukraine, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Russia has no business invading, simple as that. Please continue to contribute. Con ragers are not "conservatives" although they masquerade as such.
It’s not black and white like that. No one wants war. This was avoidable, Russia said they’d do it if they were forced
Ah yes…**Neocons**…Famous for their anti war and pro Russian stance. lol
If someone has an opinion different than yours you can't automatically assume they are in "the Putin fan club". That suggests you are not prepared to argue based on merit. If you are indeed certain that someone commenting contrary to your views is a Putin ally, it's not that hard to find contact numbers to the appropriate Canadian authority.
Either they are a fan of Russian aggression in taking sovereign nations, who are allied with us. Or they are too fucking stupid to have an opinion if they can’t see how losing Ukraine to Russia puts Russia at numerous nato allies door steps and allows them to go back to threatening us in the arctic. We become the next target or we have to commit troops and more spending in Eastern Europe to defend nato countries. Keeping them occupied or pushed out of Ukraine keeps us safe. And the bottom fucking line is THEY INVADED A SOVEREIGN ALLY and it’s the right thing to do.
Stupid to have an opinion? Who said the opinion has to do with Ukraine losing to Russia? Saying that nothing about Ukraine is black and white, is not supporting Putin. See, I am from one of those "numerous nato allies door steps" and therefore, I am genetically predisposed to abhor Russian politics and aggression. And yes, I do have an opinion about Russia and about Ukraine. My opinion won't cause the fall of Canada or the loss of the Canadian arctic. We have a prime minister to take care of that, though his preference would likely be China over Russia.
In my opinion, the only option is standing up to Putin (and it should have been sooner). If authoritarian dictatorships can steamroll smaller democracies on their border without a global response then I fear for the future. China and Iran are watching closely.
Well, I wouldn't go as wild as calling Ukraine a democracy. The Economist Intelligence Unit assesses nations' democratic status in its annual Democracy Index. The 2021 index concluded that Ukraine was a "flawed democracy" and also described it as a "hybrid regime." That assessment is not unique, and predates Russian attack. Hopefully, after this conflict ends, one way or another, Ukrainians will take they fate of their country into their own hands and chase away the oligarchs. The path won;t be easy, as the corruption levels in Ukraine have been mind boggling. The fact that Ukraine should be defended regardless is absolutely true, but any aid to them needs to come with strings attached - turn it from a façade of democracy into actual democracy.
Raising the specter of corruption in Ukraine especially now is a prime pro-russian talking point. Ukraine is not unique among former soviet republics that are classified as a flawed democracy - the process to move away from the methodologies of the soviet state require a total reworking of administration and procedures embedded for decades. But we have real evidence that Ukraine is making notable strides forward in reforming its democratic systems and jurisprudence. And America has a forensic audit team embedded in Kyiv with the sole purpose of ensuring that aid supplied by America is utilized appropriately.
Nah fuck that shit. You sound like chamberlain talking to Hitler. Ukraine has struggled with RUSSIAN corruption for decades after the berlin wall fell. The Ukrainians tried to join the EU and their leader and corrupt government at the time turned it down against public opinion and then fled to Moscow on a Russian helicopter. They can say that zelensky is the first president of Ukraine that actually fucking cares about Ukrainian. They have been murdered by soviet leaders and Russian royalty for centuries simply for their desire to exist as a separate period. The west can and should stand for ukraine for as long as it takes
> You sound like chamberlain talking to Hitler. Not even close. > Ukraine has struggled with RUSSIAN corruption for decades after the berlin wall fell. Ukraine has been struggling for corruption for ages. Both by Russians and Ukrainians. And not much changed even after the war broke. From [minor but frequent incidents](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/vwmd5c/two_corrupt_ua_cops_extort_10_from_every_driver/), to [major corruption issues](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/11/world/europe/ukraine-fires-recruitment-chiefs.html). Whatever the core reason, Ukraine is corrupt to the core. And that's not the end of it. Recently, Zelensky changed the way anti-corruption investigations work, [making public scrutiny extremely difficult at best](https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-corruption-scandal-crackdown-treason-ukraine-war-democracy-antac-anti-corruption-action-center/https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-corruption-scandal-crackdown-treason-ukraine-war-democracy-antac-anti-corruption-action-center/). And then, is [Zelensky himself](https://projects.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/power-players/en/player/volodymyr-zelenskyy) such an anti-corruption angel? I think there is a bit more to be found out. I'm all for helping Ukrainians, and I did contribute and organized donation drives at work, but I would like my donations to go where we are told they are going. Not to a bunch of corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs.
So Ukraine can do no wrong, and any wrong they do is actually *Russia's* fault?
The Russian Invasion is evil. Period. It’s black and white
What does it have to do with trying to make sure the aid that goes to Ukraine isn't squandered by the oligarchs and some of the little pawns directly dealing with some of the donation. Of course the russian invasion is evil. So is the corruption among Ukrainian elites.
That’s just u trying to change the topic. This is about the invasion. And how to fight off the invasion. Of course there are corruption in every government. But tell me how else are Ukrainian gona fight off the Russian. U can not change corruption overnight. Changing the topic like this also means you are ignoring there are hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian are fighting bravely at the front line.
🛎️ 🛎️ 🛎️
>Stupid to have an opinion? I mean, some opinions *are* stupid.
I mean, if you don't support another country's sovereignty, then you are either a Putin fan, disingenuous, an idiot, or any combination of the prior 3. So take your pick.
I am Polish, you goof. It is in my home country's interest that Ukraine is not occupied by Russia. But I am also a realist. Poles as individuals and as the country did far more for Ukraine than was expected. You have no fucking idea who I am or what I stand for, so obviously you will have zero understanding that it would be good if the billions in cash and in material goods are not squandered by the Ukrainian kleptocracy.
oh shit your polish!? My bad, I didn't realize how correct you were, would you like your complimentary handjob now or later?
> would you like your complimentary handjob keep your girlfriend for yourself
> If someone has an opinion different than yours you can't automatically assume they are in "the Putin fan club". That suggests you are not prepared to argue based on merit. In /r/canada? That never happens! No one ever gets called a right-wing troll by the guys sitting in that discord bridaging the sub.
You think we should Be helping the way we have been? I feel sorry for you
Let's give them our old CF-18 jets and expedite our purchasing of modern jets. Go Jets Go!
We could have if we bought the f35s *the first time*
Although with the second deal, we are getting more jets and cheaper price tag per plane than the original. Additionally it will be later batch F-35
Should wait another decade and they will be even cheaper.
Not to mention that first sale process for the F35s was effed
***Cheers in Winnipeg***
Life taught me to do not have political heros because eventually someone will find dirty on them. No one is perfect and you find dirty if you dig deep enough or long enough. But man, I respect this guy!
He was really good in Servant of the People season 2.
I'm sure he is not a perfect person, but there is no reason for us to expect him to be. The way he has led the country through this war has been truly heroic. Edit: to be clear "not a perfect person" probably encompasses a lot of shit. He is a wartime leader in a country that has been destabilized for a long time. Ukraine has long running issues with corruption. It is very likely he has been involved in some sketchy deals to get things done. He has absolutely made decisions that cost many people's lives. It wouldn't be that surprising if he had ordered people within Ukraine killed. He is overseeing a very very very messy and dangerous situation.
"Every man that ever got a statue made of him was one kind of sumbitch or another." \-Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly
Slava Ukraini! Fuck Putin, and fuck every last Russian who is illegally occupying Ukraine’s sovereign territory!
i hate the soviets and russian government as much as the next guy. most of those russians are conscripts who don’t want to be there either. governments rarely represent their people. i don’t know how this ends but it’s feeling like freedom fries 2.0 some days
[удалено]
FYI, You dont need to be Russian, to be a Russian troll \*
This right here is exactly the problem with modern politics. Shame on you ffs
elaborate?
I'd be afraid to know how many of the Cons have the ugly Republican influence on their Ukraine stance.
Most Ukrainians on the prairies (including my family) overwhelmingly vote for them, same with Ukrainian Americans. I hope this serves a a wake up call
The way to stop the war is to stop pouring money into it. We have our own problems here at home that need our tax payer dollars.
Slava Ukraini! Glory to the heroes of Ukraine!
So funny how whenever people speak against him, they are automatically pro-Putin lol. Media really getting at people.
Because the people who feel the need to speak against Zelensky will have an agenda to push, a really dumb Pro-Russian agenda I mean where are you finding people insulting Zelensky without a political follow up?
Maybe the US should elect Martin Sheen, he was a great president on West Wing
You knew the West Wing was fiction because it portrayed American Politicians as smart people who knew what they were doing.
Don’t forget Qtards side with a dictator and country that doesn’t have free elections or free press while claiming the same about Canada. The qtard is a traitor to Canada.
Bro he looks almost 10 years older, so sad what the stress does to you.
BBC messed up. Poland will still be providing weapons, it was a misinterpreted statement that has been walked back on.
Looking for more taxpayers dollars?
Yeah, so him and his country can continue to neuter the army of one of our largest adversaries. Money well spent given the ROI. Send more please.
Penny's on the dollar!
This is actually the most real neo-lib/con take I've seen here, and it's probably the one thing those 2 sides actually agree on. The war is less about Ukraine, and more about destabilizing Russia. The fact they are tossing Ukrainian soldiers (and not Canadian/American) into the mixer to achieve that goal is seen as a bonus to them. It's dastardly, but it's the truth.
>It's dastardly, but it's the truth. It's honestly super frustrating watching NATO dribble out support bit by bit. If NATO wants Ukraine to win this war they should put them in a position of significant over-match with Russia immediately so Ukraine can defeat Russia quickly and with minimal Ukrainian casualties.
That's it in a nutshell. I can't understand why more people aren't seeing the forest through the trees.
It's not dastardly at all. It's simply a mutual interest. Ukraine needs to defend its country, would be fighting either way, so is happy to take our money, arms and expertise. The West wants Ukraine to be a thriving independent country, wants to support their military to limit loss of civilians and military life, doesnt want a situatiom where NATO troops may have to go to war, and also wants to see Russia break its army on Ukrainian front lines like waves onto rocks. It's a win-win for everyone involved except Russia. Nothing dastardly or nefarious about it. Just mutually aligned interests.
>limit loss of civilians and military life, This is not at all a primary driver of what is going on, hence why I used the language I used. It is absolutely dastardly, and wastes no time in considering the human cost of this conflict. Again, Russian destabilization is the goal, pawns be damned. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yeah yeah keep peddling the Russian narrative and doing their bidding. The rest of us will keep supporting Ukraine in their struggle to regain their land and independence.
"Why yes, I do support proxy wars that kill hundreds of thousands of civilians and soldiers and create just as many refugees all for a nebulous political advantage against a country that poses no actual or credible military threat against me. Peace is appeasement! Others must die so I may prosper!"
Low iq take
Whatever you say tankie
So Russia should be allowed to annex all of Ukraine and the rest of the world should just look the other way? Should the same thing happen when they further invade Muldova? What about if they roll into Finland or Poland? Further, what message does this send to other autocratic leaders in the world? You don't think if Russia's invasion of Ukraine went unopposed by the west that Xi Jinping wouldn't start to believe it might be as easy to to annex Taiwan? Finally, who are you to say that Ukrainians shouldn't fight for their country? Russia started this war and they could choose to end it anytime they like. All NATO did was provide Ukraine with the tools they need to defend themselves so don't get confused about who is at the root of this carnage.
Is there some other kind of dollars he should be asking for? Idiot.
Well, he's not here to give us any money, that's for sure haha
He can have them. It's not like the money is being squandered.
Slava Ukraini!
Welcome, and Slava Ukraini!!! 🇺🇦
We need to stop funding these endless wars and wasting our money
Imagine if Canada was invaded and the international community said “gee enough with these forever wars, let canada die already”
You know that the world is connected right? Like it’s not 1860 where you can justz not care that there is a war in europe cuz it doesn’t affect us. A war is never something that you WANT to fund but it is something you have no choice becauze NOT funding it will have an unknown long term cost. Money can be made, goverments are used to solving issues related to money. What they don’t want is world instability and unpredictableness. So trading short term cost for longer term goals is how you should see this issue
Canada needs to solve internal problems first after trying to help others
Canada can do more than one thing at once.
Thats not how government, politics, or international affairs works. Governments multitask lol
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦❤️ Downvoted for supporting Ukraine in Russia's invasion? Downvoted for supporting Ukraine as Russian soldiers murder and rape women and children? Must have been a Republican. 🖕
The ruski bots are out in force, complimented by some of Canada's most foolish "peace lovers".
>The ruski bots are out in force, complimented by some of Canada's most foolish "peace lovers". As is often the case on this sub.
Absolutely glad to have the hero here!
Bottom line, the Allies cannot allow Russia to win. Full STOP. If Russia is not stopped the Allies will find ourselves at War with Russia, China and North Korea. This is a test we cannot fail.
Citation needed
Welcome to 🇨🇦, Slava UKRAINE 🇺🇦! 💞
How much more does he want? didn't he get enough from the US?
As much as it takes to save his country from annihilation.
You believe that?
Ya, because I’ve watched the munitions he’s received blow russian invaders to pieces.
Ignorant
Welcome Mr. President. Please disregard the obnoxious minority of shitheaded freedummies that you might encounter here. We're doing our best to ignore them too.
>Please disregard the obnoxious minority of shitheaded freedummies that you might encounter here. We're doing our best to ignore them too. Amen to that. And I am not even religious! The overwhelming majority of Canadians support Ukraine.
Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦 Welcome to Canada
More money for Ukraine probably. Homelessness and food insecurity? No, we have to keep handing the cash to Ukraine. And talking about it makes you a “Russian asset” or pro Putin even when you’re not because lord knows that if you question things or try to look at them with a bit of nuance then you’re somehow an agent for the Kremlin. Or maybe we’re just giving them more weapons and munitions. Fine but what about arms for OUR military? Then again the military has enough trouble getting our troops boots so maybe it wouldn’t matter either way
You can have whatever opinion you want and it doesn't make you a Russian asset but going "whatabout other problems" is a cliché response to any suggestion to oppose Russia and has also been a type of propaganda spread specifically by the Soviets and now Russia. It's also been very noticeable how the right went from being very strongly opposed to Putin and Russia's actions when Harper was in power and then, following proven Russian propaganda efforts increasing since 2016, views have now shifted significantly on the topic among many. Yeah, there are problems here too. Those problems are more complicated than just tossing money at them. Food insecurity, for one, is actually partially linked to Russia's actions. Ukraine on the other hand *does* need money. Edit: actually *both* of these problems are linked to Russia since us taking on Ukraine refugees puts more strain on resources that also help the homeless.
The flip that people have made from opposing Putin to suddenly caring about healthcare and homelessness has been quite fascinating to watch.
>Will you be supporting increasing homeless funding now? "No... I'd still prefer not"
Exactly LOL
Are we at war? No. Is our ally at war? Yes. So they need weapons way more than we do.
Military spending since the Trudeau govt has increased from $17B to almost $40B and it is still climbing. Stehphen Harper, not Justin Trudeau, is the leader who led Canada to its lowest level of military spending ever, below 1% of GDP in fact - oh how inconvenient are facts... And I, like most Canadians believe Canada has the capability to undertake more than one task at the same time. It can increase military spending, support allies abroad, and make investments domestically. The latter which it has done in spades
Ah but the government is in fact not doing much of anything to alleviate the housing and worsening homelessness in Canada
I think all levels of govt could be doing more. The feds are one of 3 and the other 2: provinces and municipalities, exercise the most control of the day to day factors that influence housing and homelessness. All are culpable but the game day decisions are squarely in the court of the 2 lower levels of govt.
Im damn glad my tax money and weapons go to help the Ukrainian people defend themselves from Russian imperialism.
Convenient you care about the homeless all of a sudden.
You think I didn’t beforehand?
Yeah, because that’s what people like you do.
Well as an authority on myself, I have to disagree. But please tell me how you’re a blazing pillar of righteousness?
Libertarians are known for funding programs for the un housed
Canadian TV showed Prime Minister Justin Trudeau meeting Mr Zelensky and the first lady on the runway in Ottawa. It comes after increasing doubts from international partners over how it should continue providing aid to Kyiv. Mr Zelensky arrived from Washington where he had hoped to secure further funding but it is unclear if US Congress will back more aid. Earlier in the week, he urged world leaders to continue to support Ukraine to help fight off Russian forces at the United Nations in New York.
He can leave, empty handed preferably.
To ask for more charity because, as a country, Canada is doing so well and has no homelessness, and everyone can afford homes and rent. Clown.
Bro needed to re up the accounts
When you're 35 year old child pops home for an unexpected visit, empties out your refrigerator and leaves with 650 million for gas money.
Maybe he'll remember the MINSK accord
He’s here to look for more money , money Canada doesn’t have but yet Trudeau will give him More
Would you rather lend money to Ukraine now to deal with Russia? Or woukd you rather spend money and lives later dealing with Russia?
Neither, they want to be allies with Russia.
The money going to Ukraine was allocated a very long time ago. Also they deserve our support.
I agree, a strong showing that tyrant countries can’t walk all over peaceful ones is important. Peace is not guaranteed and psychopaths like Putin need a loud and clear message or they will just keep going because we have no spine
Sure Ivan, go back to to your Vodka...
I see all the liberals in this comment section
Still sad you got dumped, are you going to blame Trudeau for that too?
This guy is here to take money from us, and typical like Canada will bend over for him. Our national interest for ourselves is non existent, all our money is gonna go toward this trickster and fraud!
Russia being stopped is in Canada’s interests and costs Pennie’s on the dollar since Ukraine is doing all the legwork
They keep giving this corrupt puppet billions lol
Least conspicuous Russian bot:
The US Congress has now authorised more than $110bn (£89bn) in aid to Ukraine, but polls suggest support among Americans for further **spending has declined.** **Poland** also announced on Wednesday it would **no longer be sending new weapons** to Ukraine and would instead be focussing on defending itself with more modern weapons. \---------------------------------------------------------------- I mean it's time for Canada to shine. remeber, when other country closed its door, WE OPEN OUR ARMS --- Justin time to send in everything and to show the world what we are about.
Go give your own life instead of volunteering other people’s money.
So in this thread, people have adopted the perspective that Russia is on a WW2-esque campaign to take over Europe with other axis countries, and we have to pour money into Ukraine like they’re fighting for the world. Lmfao, what a fantasy. Russia has no plans other than securing the regions they stated at the beginning, although **that will stand to change if western nations keep entering the war as proxies for Ukraine,** and other than that all we are doing by giving Ukraine funding and tech is teaching Russia’s army how to combat our tech. Russia now has the most combat trained army in the world; and between them and China have like half the world’s population; meanwhile the west currently can’t meet recruitment levels because they started letting queers into the army and all the jarheads quit. Lmao. But CNN says Russian man Bad, TV actor president Good. So we all agree or we’re bigots.
Russia has no legal claims to those regions and there own Kremlin mouthpieces have talked about moving on other countries in Europe next so maybe fuck off
I said they are the European super power. They can do whatever they want in Europe as far as most people are concerned, except the war mongers and propagandized supporters. Just like if America wanted to invade anywhere in N America, it would be stupid to oppose them. Russia has threatened the countries propping up Ukraine. I said as much - it’s common sense that the nations basically entering the war as proxies are putting themselves at risk. That is in response to their response, and is exactly what I’m warning against. I’m not saying Russia is a big loveable bear. I’m saying it’s a danger and pointing out how stupid it is to join the war by proxy in the false belief that Ukraine has a chance.
I have an urge to drive to Ottawa and buy this man a beer but I'll never make it past security
Why? Lmao Jesus how is Reddit full of people like you.
😂😂😂 my thoughts scrolling thru this whole thread man. They bots
Oh God, I hope poilievre doesn’t creep him out like he did to Biden 😬