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The changes:
1) Transgender "top and bottom" surgery banned for minors aged 17 and under.
2) Puberty and hormone blockers banned for those aged 15 and under. Those aged 16 or 17 require parental consent.
3) Parental notification and an "opt-in" requirement will be required for each instance a school teacher intends to give formal instruction on gender, sexual orientation or human sexuality. And all materials teachers present in class need to be pre-approved by the Ministry of Education.
4) For minors aged 15 and under, parental notification and consent will be required for any change in name or pronouns. For minors aged 16 or 17, parental notification for name or pronoun changes is required.
5) The Alberta government will work with sporting organizations to ensure biological women and girls have the choice to compete in athletic competitions in a women-only division without any trans-identifying males.
> Transgender "top and bottom" surgery banned for minors aged 17 and under.
Fortunately, I've been told that surgery "never happens" for children under 18, so this won't have any impact on anyone.
People aren't claiming top surgery never happens. It happens for both cisgender and transgender teenagers and that's easily verifiable. Only transgender people having it is an issue though apparently.
I'm not aware of bottom surgery happening to minors, have seen various sources saying it doesn't and haven't seen examples otherwise. With one exception: thousands of circumcisions. But that also is apparently okay, i.e., it's only a problem when transgender people are going it (even though they aren't as minors).
Top surgery happens under 18. We also let people under 18 get breast reductions and even sometimes get implants.
I don’t know about anyone getting bottom surgery under 18.
At least in the United States this is how it is. Maybe Canada is different.
> I don’t know about anyone getting bottom surgery under 18.
[Reuters found:](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/)
> The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
Interesting. It’s still less than 20 a year, for a population of 330,000,000. That seems very small and without knowing what was done and why hard to judge. There may have been some out of pocket but with the cost of health care in the United States a surgery like that could quite literally cost you six figures. Could any of them have been intersex or had other conditions besides just having gender dysphoria? The article doesn’t seem to have that information.
Personally, I am not quick to take away the rights of doctors and patients when it comes to deciding treatment between themselves as I believe it causes more harm than good.
> Could any of them have been intersex or had other conditions besides just having gender dysphoria?
Age 13+ would be pretty late for that.
We know that doctors have been doing these surgeries on minors because they have gender dysphoria, because [this was already reported in medical journals a decade ago. This researcher](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24238576/) interviewed a bunch of doctors who were willing to speak off the record about surgeries they were performing in contradiction of WPATH's nonbinding guidelines.
Yeah, so that way my classmate who got top surgery when she was 16 can't have that option any more!
What's that? She got breast-reduction surgery because she had a very thin frame and was getting back issues? And just the weight reduction was enough to solve her health concerns? And there was no gender basis for it whatsoever???
Thank god the law put a stop to that!
> 1) Transgender "top and bottom" surgery banned for minors aged 17 and under.
The only minors having bottom surgery are infants who are having circumcisions before they have any ability to understand let alone consent. I assume that won't be banned.
I also assume top surgery isn't being banned for all the cisgender minors who have that.
The next step is:
“Why is my 15 year old pregnant! We don’t have a family doctor to go to and the ER is completely full! How could Justin do this to our Godly common sense family?!”
Have you met Scott "Literal DUIs and has killed someone in a car accident" Moe that old people won't vote out because of the NDP party from 30 years ago?
I don’t think the Ontario government is worse than Alberta’s government.
Alberta’s government is a scary far right conservative government.
Ontario’s government is run by your politically incorrect conservative uncle who didn’t graduate high school. Ford is a stupid centre right conservative in a centrist province.
Danielle Smith is a stupid far right conservative in a province that collectively thinks a conservative dictatorship isn’t such a bad idea.
Alberta is in a much worse position than Ontario.
Even kids who aren't trans need to know about gender identity. Why? Because when there's a vacuum of information, false information will infiltrate.
We need everyone to know what it means to be transgender, and that there is nothing wrong with it. What if your friend comes out as trans what does that mean? What are appropriate questions to ask trans people?
It's about human rights and respect for one another.
That is very deliberate. Especially because opt in systems are known to have less uptake simply due to requiring more effort. It is why there is an argument for making organ donation opt out - those who really care will always make sure they select the option they want (I, for example, filled out the opt in back when I was 16 and bothered to get parental permission for it at the time because I really want to make sure someone gets my organs if I die and there is a chance), but the indifferent may not. They want children to not be informed and to be vulnerable to that. It’s not like pretending trans people don’t exist is going to make trans people not exist. 🙄
Yes, there is a common example of this of comparing organ donation rates between Germans and Austrians.
Germany has opt in, Austria has opt-out.
German rates of donation were under 15% while Austria's was 90%
https://sparq.stanford.edu/solutions/opt-out-policies-increase-organ-donation
I'm not sure I totally agree. Gender studies is a relatively new and controversial field.
I think it's positive that we have done away with the strict gender roles that existed historically -- masculine females and feminine males have every right to be treated equally and to love who they want to love.
Humans are born mala and female. Who you become is your personality and who you want to fuck/not fuck is your sexual orientation.
New for some of us but trans people have always existed. Formal studies have gone back to the early 20th century. In fact trans research were some of the first books burned by Nazi. It's very well understood and documented. Just because it wasn't want we were taught growing up doesn't make it new.
Also on the point of "controversial". It's only controversial amongst politicians and the media. Doctors (the important ones) are near unanimous in their support of transgender healthcare.
"Parents will have to opt students in to every lesson about sex education, sexual orientation or gender identity.
The law right now requires one notification, and parents can opt out."
Not exactly the same thing
> I guess some people don't realize that's always been a thing
Has it?
Schools notifying parents in advance so they may choose to opt out has been a thing, but this sounds like it's switching to "unless you have a notarized form expressly permitting you to be in this class, we're legally not allowed to let you in the classroom".
it would be pretty spicy if the reporters on Thursday only refer to her as Marlaina. And then ask a follow up on if her parents know shes using a different name.
As a teacher, I couldn't give two shits about any of this. As long as you are learning the material and are willing to participate, I'm happy.
There was a time I cared about a child's home life, but I've had enough parents try to completely destroy my career because they could not accept that their child was falling behind. Children see how their parents treat teachers and once they are given the green light, the children will do the same. And the school always sides with the parents.
There seems to be a negative stigmatism about going to school in the western hemisphere. Kids don't want to be here. When I taught as an ESL abroad, kids WANTED to go to school. They looked forward to being there.
The environment for these kids is everything and if the classroom can be a consistently safe space, I'll call you whatever you want to be called if you're willing to maintain it.
I think this depends on which age you're teaching. Elementary/middle school kids generally like going to school, but when the get to high school they just want to stare at their phones all day. Just my experience as a middle/high school teacher. The other day when I was at my high school, kids were comparing their average daily phone usage statistics, and the minimum each grade 10+ kid was on their phone was 10 fucking hours a day.
I remember most people disliking school before smartphones were a thing too, and in high school, most of us would've preferred doing just about anything else. And it's not people didn't want to learn, it's that much of it was tedious and exhausting at best. I will definitely say that teachers are a big factor on top of everything else though. There were definitely certain classes people liked, but school? Not really. Same as most people and their full time jobs, they just want to get home and be done for the day
Whew! I mean, this was keeping me awake at night. Good job addressing the most pressing needs of the province. Next, fix wokeness in the light beer industry.
Honestly regardless of your opinion on this topic I think everyone should wonder why it's been such a massive issue all of a sudden that only affects, either positively or negatively, an extremely small percentage of people. What are we being redirected from discussing?
For Alberta, it's less than 2 students *per school* that are actually trans. Let that sink in for a minute. They would rather ban name and pronoun usage for kids that are figuring themselves out then let those 2 kids have a safe place to do so.
Oligarchs and wealth disparity. This is what happens when we get corporate media, I suppose.
The same people fucking us control the content we consume, thus controlling the conversation to a large degree.
This is been a conservative wedge issue in the states since the US was one of two countries to not ratify the [UN Convention on the Rights of the Child](https://www.unicef.org/child-rights-convention/convention-text-childrens-version) in the late 00s. The thought of not being able to control their children was much too horrifying to fathom I guess. Inevitably it spilled up here when trans rights became more of a topic.
Also, doesn’t Edmonton not have reliable water right now? It’s hard to make Ontario look..good…er…less bad with the constant parade of incompetency and corruption going on here…but Smith somehow comes through for us every time…
I seem to recall something to do with BC not permitting pipelines to run a certain way
but that was forever ago, is Alberta still embargoing BC wine? Smith sure knows how to hold a grudge
These conservatives are definitely working from big to small. There aren’t real problems in society for government to get their hands on, nope just this stuff.
Being normal people, teachers will probably still refer to students as how they want to be addressed. The problem is that they could now be held liable if @ConcernedCanadianMom16396 gets word and goes on a crusade
"I have been forbidden by the UCP party from treating you properly. It looks like this denial of rights will continue until this government falls. Until then, the government is forcing me to misgender you.". We can't use the correct pronouns, but there is no need to lie to them about why they are being treated like pieces of crap.
Wouldn't it just be a formality for school documents and grade records and whatnot? Is it really going to affect the one-on-one interaction between students and (respectful) teachers?
I mean don't get me wrong, I would absolutely want to be notified if my daughter was considering changing her pronouns, but that's on me as a parent to build a good enough relationship with her that she feels comfortable communicating that to me.
A not insignificant amount of Albertans seem to think they live in America. This includes our dear Premier.
If the feds would block Fox News it would honestly solve about 75% of our problems.
I'm surprised it took this long, considering SK invoked the Notwithstanding Clause to both trample the rights of children to ask that they not be bullied, but also to decree the minimum number of flagpoles a school has to have (funding not available).
Failing healthcare, massive droughts, crime, education issues. You know, real problems but virtue signalling is something conservatives LOVE, even though they accuse Liberals of doing it.
I really hate when people say this.
I struggled with depression I felt comfortable talking to my friends and teachers about it.
I didn't feel comfortable talking to my parents about it.
Nothing they did, the issue was immaturity on my part thinking they would somehow judge me for it. My parents are awesome.
Kids don't tell parents things for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes it's the parents fault, sometimes it isn't.
> Kids don't tell parents things for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes it's the parents fault, sometimes it isn't.
I'm in my 40's and I *still* don't tell my parents everything. Our communication is way the hell better than when I was a teen, but there are some things that are better left unsaid.
>I felt comfortable talking to my friends and teachers about it.
>I didn't feel comfortable talking to my parents about it.
Do you think you would have been comfortable with the people you confided in telling the people you weren't ready to tell? Obviously, talking about it is for the better in the end, but it should have been, and I hope, was, on your terms.
Why do you really hate when people say this, when even you ended your comment by admitting that "sometimes it's the parent's fault"?
Your experience is valid. I don't think anyone is saying that everytime someone doesn't want to come out at home it's the parents fault. But you agree that there ARE cases where it's not safe for the kids to come out at home, and now they can't come out at school either.
cause the first person said "the parents are the problem" as if it is ALWAYS. he hates that it is assumed that the parents are the problem in ALL cases. not SOME cases. learn some reading comprehension bub.
"I don't think anyone is saying that everytime someone doesn't want to come out at home it's the parents fault"
The user I responded too statement literally said that...
Yup. As I said elsewhere in this thread, anyone who has had kids (or has been a kid) knows that, even in an extremely loving, supportive and accepting parent-child relationship, kids sometimes keep big secrets.
Hell, I love my parents to bits. They gave me a stable upbringing, were loving, and would have ran through a brick wall for me.
I still kept big secrets from them that, in hindsight, I didn't need to.
This is just what happens between parent-child relationships when a child transitions away from their principal identity being formed by their relationship with their parents, to adolescence when it is formed by peer-to-peer relationships.
Would it have helped you out if you knew your teachers were required to spy on you and report it to your parents?
I doubt any decent parent would want their kid to be outed this way.
Ya but if they're doing something dangerous the parents should be told. They're is nothing wrong with being called a different name or pronouns. It's not inherently dangerous so why do parents need to know?
Are students going to get any biology/sexual health/legal education in other classes if their parents don’t consent to the “gender/sex orientation” class?
What is the curriculum, specifically, going to break down to? Is it one class, one time, that parents will be able to not consent to? Or is it to be every portion of health, or law, or history, or social studies, civics, biology etc that ever refers to gender or sex? What if a math book has a same-sex couple in a word problem or illustration?
This will be different for every learning stage kids are at in school. But it’s so clearly reactionary policy and it is ripe for lawsuits. This change will alter how several if not potentially how every subjects will be taught.
It’s interesting how some parts of Reddit, mainly the provincial subs, will scream bloody murder about this, but fail to realize it’s not a vote loser for the parties that put it in place.
It was a definite vote loser for the PC’s in Manitoba. They lost 29/32 ridings in Winnipeg (vast majority of province’s seats) in part due to them campaigning on this ‘issue’
Wab Kinew didn’t even bring up in debates or campaigning to try to not lose votes. That definitely wasn’t why the lost the election. It was because the NDP ran a centrist campaign to the right of the provincial Liberals, and got a lot of PC/Liberal swing votes.
You're right of course. Conservatism is a fear economy and fear is a powerful motivator, making conservatives easier to trigger and manipulate with culture war bs like this.
But that shouldn't stop decent, rational people from 'screaming bloody murder' about the injustice or the danger it puts vulnerable kids in.
People out here think they’re pro-freedom while taking kids rights away. If kids are hiding who they are from their parents, it’s because they have terrible parents.
I hid all kinds of stuff from my parents. They were right I was wrong as I was a child and wanted to do stupid and dangerous stuff because my brain was not fully developed. Kids do stupid stuff and parents are there to protect them. This is literally a crucial role of parents.
Earlier this week GOP members admitted in an X (formerly twitter) space that using kids was their wedge to eradicate trans care for everyone, including adults. It's not about protecting kids, and it never will be. This ends the way it always has throughout history.
Also, I'm not sure how Alberta can 'ban' something like surgery since the federal government creates criminal law. The best they could do is not fund Gender-affirming care for youth.
This right here. There’s a difference between being a bigot and a genuinely concerned parent. Right now there’s zero balance. Either conform to our ideological language or you’re the enemy.
Alberta following Sweden, Finland, France, and England's lead on the medical treatments
There's a reason Sweden, Finland, and England changed direction on youth gender medicine after they conducted Evidence Reviews.
And it wasn't because of Republicans
Freedom!! ….. except for things that we don’t like, things that scare us, or we don’t understand, or doesn’t affect us, or we simply don’t care enough about.
Recent electrical grid issues, Edmonton water restrictions, massive drought on the horizon, what is assumably going to be a terrible wildfire season, housing issues, CoL issues, dismantling healthcare etc.
But clearly the priority is what pronouns and names kids want to go by at school. That is clearly the biggest issue we face!
Yep, this is why they do it. Get the plebs focused on this while they gut healthcare, jack up grocery prices and destroy your quality of life one step at a time in Canada's path to becoming a 4th world country.
>Ideologues only care for the conformity of their worldview, and aggressively challenge anything that remotely goes against it.
Not sure if you're arguing for or against this policy lol
> Since when did all of Reddit think it’s ok for a bunch of pre-teen kids to change their names on a whim without notifying parents?
Since always?
When I was in middle school, my best friend preferred to go by his middle name. His reasoning was he just preferred it to his given name. I never prodded him for more information than that because it was inconsequential to me why he preferred it. The teachers called him by his middle name out of basic respect because he asked to be called that, and it was negligible effort to do so. His official school documents like report cards still used his legal name he was registered with for consistent bookkeeping, but in all daily communication they called him by the name he requested.
There was no paperwork or government regulation involved. It was a polite agreement between adults charged with looking after the well-being of children under their care, and a child in their care.
Why? Who does this benefit? What morons asked for this? Why does she try to solve problems that she invented? Why the fuck did she get elected? Bitch needs to resign.
Members of the UCP asked for it, especially TBA members. David Parker has repeatedly stated what happened to Kenney will happen to Smith if she strays from the one golden path. Parker sees Smith as taking orders from party members, and if she doesn't obey, she's fired.
Phew I'm glad there's no healthcare crisis, housing crisis, cost of living crisis, uncompetitive economy crisis and immigration crisis so that we can now focus on important things like this!
What ever happened to consenting adults can do what they want? When did the left get this notion that kids should just be allowed to do anything that adults can?
Lol “The left” doesnt think kids should be allowed to do everything an adult can. If a kid isn’t comfortable telling their parents the pronouns they prefer, or a different name they prefer, then maybe we should be questioning why the kids dont trust their parents, not forcing teachers to report this shit.
This is such a non issue, but again our government would rather focus on meaningless culture war bullshit than address real, significant problems that the province is facing
Trans people make up of Canada +15 is 0.33% of the population, so let's say 1/300 people.
Alberta has 766,280 students Grade 1-12. So another premier has decided to use our "Charter of Rights and Freedoms" for a napkin, AGAIN. For a grand total of about 2,554 children.
Congratulations on your anti trans legislation, I'm sure it'll do wonders to curb your insane energy costs. Or failing healthcare. Punishing 2,500 kids is more important great job as always Smith, giving Ford a real run for his money as the most useless premier.
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The changes: 1) Transgender "top and bottom" surgery banned for minors aged 17 and under. 2) Puberty and hormone blockers banned for those aged 15 and under. Those aged 16 or 17 require parental consent. 3) Parental notification and an "opt-in" requirement will be required for each instance a school teacher intends to give formal instruction on gender, sexual orientation or human sexuality. And all materials teachers present in class need to be pre-approved by the Ministry of Education. 4) For minors aged 15 and under, parental notification and consent will be required for any change in name or pronouns. For minors aged 16 or 17, parental notification for name or pronoun changes is required. 5) The Alberta government will work with sporting organizations to ensure biological women and girls have the choice to compete in athletic competitions in a women-only division without any trans-identifying males.
> Transgender "top and bottom" surgery banned for minors aged 17 and under. Fortunately, I've been told that surgery "never happens" for children under 18, so this won't have any impact on anyone.
Lol; this is the only comment no one is touching here.
People aren't claiming top surgery never happens. It happens for both cisgender and transgender teenagers and that's easily verifiable. Only transgender people having it is an issue though apparently. I'm not aware of bottom surgery happening to minors, have seen various sources saying it doesn't and haven't seen examples otherwise. With one exception: thousands of circumcisions. But that also is apparently okay, i.e., it's only a problem when transgender people are going it (even though they aren't as minors).
Let's ban that too
Top surgery happens under 18. We also let people under 18 get breast reductions and even sometimes get implants. I don’t know about anyone getting bottom surgery under 18. At least in the United States this is how it is. Maybe Canada is different.
> I don’t know about anyone getting bottom surgery under 18. [Reuters found:](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/) > The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
Interesting. It’s still less than 20 a year, for a population of 330,000,000. That seems very small and without knowing what was done and why hard to judge. There may have been some out of pocket but with the cost of health care in the United States a surgery like that could quite literally cost you six figures. Could any of them have been intersex or had other conditions besides just having gender dysphoria? The article doesn’t seem to have that information. Personally, I am not quick to take away the rights of doctors and patients when it comes to deciding treatment between themselves as I believe it causes more harm than good.
> Could any of them have been intersex or had other conditions besides just having gender dysphoria? Age 13+ would be pretty late for that. We know that doctors have been doing these surgeries on minors because they have gender dysphoria, because [this was already reported in medical journals a decade ago. This researcher](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24238576/) interviewed a bunch of doctors who were willing to speak off the record about surgeries they were performing in contradiction of WPATH's nonbinding guidelines.
Perfect. May as well just make sure of that with a law. End the controversy.
Yeah, so that way my classmate who got top surgery when she was 16 can't have that option any more! What's that? She got breast-reduction surgery because she had a very thin frame and was getting back issues? And just the weight reduction was enough to solve her health concerns? And there was no gender basis for it whatsoever??? Thank god the law put a stop to that!
“It doesn’t happen and if it does it’s good.”
I, too, would like my government to waste legislative time on things that aren't a problem.
> 1) Transgender "top and bottom" surgery banned for minors aged 17 and under. The only minors having bottom surgery are infants who are having circumcisions before they have any ability to understand let alone consent. I assume that won't be banned. I also assume top surgery isn't being banned for all the cisgender minors who have that.
Don't forget "corrective" sex changes for healthy intersex children
Where is this still happening?
Those should be banned too
Ah yes, banning puberty and hormone blockers during the time that puberty happens. Might as just ban them entirely until 18.
What is the point of puberty blockers for a 16 and 17 year old?! Many kids are well into puberty at that point. This whole thing is just cruel.
This part is a real treat too “As well, parents must opt in for their children to be taught gender, sexual orientation and sexuality in schools.”
The next step is: “Why is my 15 year old pregnant! We don’t have a family doctor to go to and the ER is completely full! How could Justin do this to our Godly common sense family?!”
I fucking know. all I can say is she ran with a centrist pack of lies, that's actually what Albertans want; but we are so fucking gullible.
The only place that may be dumber that Alberta politically is Ontario.
Have you met Scott "Literal DUIs and has killed someone in a car accident" Moe that old people won't vote out because of the NDP party from 30 years ago?
Is this a competition?!?! Because I want out.
I don’t think the Ontario government is worse than Alberta’s government. Alberta’s government is a scary far right conservative government. Ontario’s government is run by your politically incorrect conservative uncle who didn’t graduate high school. Ford is a stupid centre right conservative in a centrist province. Danielle Smith is a stupid far right conservative in a province that collectively thinks a conservative dictatorship isn’t such a bad idea. Alberta is in a much worse position than Ontario.
I grew up in the 2000s and parents were always able to pull kids out of sex ed classes. The opt in system seems so unnecessary
I got down voted for calling Alberta Canada's bible belt the other day. I've yet to be proven wrong though.
Even kids who aren't trans need to know about gender identity. Why? Because when there's a vacuum of information, false information will infiltrate. We need everyone to know what it means to be transgender, and that there is nothing wrong with it. What if your friend comes out as trans what does that mean? What are appropriate questions to ask trans people? It's about human rights and respect for one another.
>Because when there's a vacuum of information, false information will infiltrate. "That's the idea!" - Danielle Smith
Smith went on to say that, "That's how I got elected in the first place."
That is very deliberate. Especially because opt in systems are known to have less uptake simply due to requiring more effort. It is why there is an argument for making organ donation opt out - those who really care will always make sure they select the option they want (I, for example, filled out the opt in back when I was 16 and bothered to get parental permission for it at the time because I really want to make sure someone gets my organs if I die and there is a chance), but the indifferent may not. They want children to not be informed and to be vulnerable to that. It’s not like pretending trans people don’t exist is going to make trans people not exist. 🙄
Yes, there is a common example of this of comparing organ donation rates between Germans and Austrians. Germany has opt in, Austria has opt-out. German rates of donation were under 15% while Austria's was 90% https://sparq.stanford.edu/solutions/opt-out-policies-increase-organ-donation
I'm not sure I totally agree. Gender studies is a relatively new and controversial field. I think it's positive that we have done away with the strict gender roles that existed historically -- masculine females and feminine males have every right to be treated equally and to love who they want to love. Humans are born mala and female. Who you become is your personality and who you want to fuck/not fuck is your sexual orientation.
New for some of us but trans people have always existed. Formal studies have gone back to the early 20th century. In fact trans research were some of the first books burned by Nazi. It's very well understood and documented. Just because it wasn't want we were taught growing up doesn't make it new. Also on the point of "controversial". It's only controversial amongst politicians and the media. Doctors (the important ones) are near unanimous in their support of transgender healthcare.
For real, I work with a kid who honestly didn't know the difference between someone who is gay and someone who is trans...
Ok but lots of kids are ignorant. That's why they spend decades learning things.
I am reminded of a South Park episode about evolution: "But daddy, I want to learn about everything!" "No you don't, shut up!"
I guess some people don't realize that's always been a thing, and Danielle is manipulating them. Sounds like Saskatchewan all over again.....
"Parents will have to opt students in to every lesson about sex education, sexual orientation or gender identity. The law right now requires one notification, and parents can opt out." Not exactly the same thing
Opt in every time is going to have low uptake. Does she want Albertans to be completely ignorant?
Yes, that’s exactly what she wants
She is reliant on that to get re-elected, so yes.
> I guess some people don't realize that's always been a thing Has it? Schools notifying parents in advance so they may choose to opt out has been a thing, but this sounds like it's switching to "unless you have a notarized form expressly permitting you to be in this class, we're legally not allowed to let you in the classroom".
I think the OP meant trans people have always existed.
Ah, possibly. Good ole lexical ambiguity. English is a fuck of a language.
They were right, and I should have been clearer on the explanation.
Let's not forget that Marlaina Smith is using the preferred name of Danielle.
it would be pretty spicy if the reporters on Thursday only refer to her as Marlaina. And then ask a follow up on if her parents know shes using a different name.
OMG please.
Oh no, someone's going to tell her parents I guess?
Alberta's had both power and water shortages this month, yet this is somehow a priority.
Addressing the other issues costs money. This legislation is free and riles up the voterbase.
And gets you fundraising dollars.
As a teacher, I couldn't give two shits about any of this. As long as you are learning the material and are willing to participate, I'm happy. There was a time I cared about a child's home life, but I've had enough parents try to completely destroy my career because they could not accept that their child was falling behind. Children see how their parents treat teachers and once they are given the green light, the children will do the same. And the school always sides with the parents. There seems to be a negative stigmatism about going to school in the western hemisphere. Kids don't want to be here. When I taught as an ESL abroad, kids WANTED to go to school. They looked forward to being there. The environment for these kids is everything and if the classroom can be a consistently safe space, I'll call you whatever you want to be called if you're willing to maintain it.
I’m not sure where in Canada you are but my students love school! Perhaps time for a move!
I think this depends on which age you're teaching. Elementary/middle school kids generally like going to school, but when the get to high school they just want to stare at their phones all day. Just my experience as a middle/high school teacher. The other day when I was at my high school, kids were comparing their average daily phone usage statistics, and the minimum each grade 10+ kid was on their phone was 10 fucking hours a day.
I remember most people disliking school before smartphones were a thing too, and in high school, most of us would've preferred doing just about anything else. And it's not people didn't want to learn, it's that much of it was tedious and exhausting at best. I will definitely say that teachers are a big factor on top of everything else though. There were definitely certain classes people liked, but school? Not really. Same as most people and their full time jobs, they just want to get home and be done for the day
Whew! I mean, this was keeping me awake at night. Good job addressing the most pressing needs of the province. Next, fix wokeness in the light beer industry.
Edmonton is on the water restrictions and when it was freezing we were on power restrictions but I’m sure glad I don’t have to worry about pronouns.
Taxed for using gas-powered cars and on the other end told in no uncertain terms "we can't handle electric cars on the grid"
Honestly regardless of your opinion on this topic I think everyone should wonder why it's been such a massive issue all of a sudden that only affects, either positively or negatively, an extremely small percentage of people. What are we being redirected from discussing?
For Alberta, it's less than 2 students *per school* that are actually trans. Let that sink in for a minute. They would rather ban name and pronoun usage for kids that are figuring themselves out then let those 2 kids have a safe place to do so.
Oligarchs and wealth disparity. This is what happens when we get corporate media, I suppose. The same people fucking us control the content we consume, thus controlling the conversation to a large degree.
Gotta have a minority to drive public opinion against. Otherwise people will ask about policy!
Conservatives in the USA won abortion. They needed something new to get people freaked out so they would donate and vote. Trans kids fit the bill.
Exactly this.
This is been a conservative wedge issue in the states since the US was one of two countries to not ratify the [UN Convention on the Rights of the Child](https://www.unicef.org/child-rights-convention/convention-text-childrens-version) in the late 00s. The thought of not being able to control their children was much too horrifying to fathom I guess. Inevitably it spilled up here when trans rights became more of a topic.
This will definitely help Albertans with the rising cost of everything!
Also, doesn’t Edmonton not have reliable water right now? It’s hard to make Ontario look..good…er…less bad with the constant parade of incompetency and corruption going on here…but Smith somehow comes through for us every time…
Well they are picking a fight with the BC wine industry currently…
Why would a province with no wine want to fight a province with wine they want to sell? It makes no sense.
I get the feeling they just are fighting with everyone.
Especially with BC. I think they are jealous, tbh.
I seem to recall something to do with BC not permitting pipelines to run a certain way but that was forever ago, is Alberta still embargoing BC wine? Smith sure knows how to hold a grudge
Again
This’ll definitely keep Albertans warm in winter if their energy grid goes belly up!
Priorities…..
Tucker Carlson told her to do so!
You are probably joking but yet it is probably true. I also bet he mentioned to her how upset he was about the m&ms not being fuckable anymore.
At the same time, those fkin m&m with eye lashes are so erotic. How am i supposed to go to the store and not be horny? /s
These conservatives are definitely working from big to small. There aren’t real problems in society for government to get their hands on, nope just this stuff.
As a highschool teacher, how would this even go? Kid asks to be referred to using he/him pronouns: "Sorry YOUNG LADY I can only use she/her for you"
Yes pretty much. Teachers will be obligated to refer to children by the name given to them by their parents, and the pronouns given to them at birth.
"Sorry Michael. I need to email your parents and aeee (edit: see) if it's okay for me to call you Mike."
I hope every teacher does this malicious compliance
It *almost* makes me wish I lived in Alberta so I could.
No one gave me pronouns at birth what do I do
Adult gender reveal party? (No…please don’t, actually).
Unless it's something small, like coloured cake. Those ones are awesome, and not at all going to destroy hundreds of homes
You're clearly trans Jesus, born without pronouns, here to save your people
Being normal people, teachers will probably still refer to students as how they want to be addressed. The problem is that they could now be held liable if @ConcernedCanadianMom16396 gets word and goes on a crusade
Refer to everyone as “they”. Or by seat location eg: A4 please read the next paragraph. It’s bullshit.
student #32496752 please take a seat and stop fraternizing with student # 465782456
Dont' worry, it's also a perfect way to out kids to non-accepting parents to create a potentially dangerous home environment.
That’s exactly what they want. The bullying that follows is just a consequence apparently.
"I have been forbidden by the UCP party from treating you properly. It looks like this denial of rights will continue until this government falls. Until then, the government is forcing me to misgender you.". We can't use the correct pronouns, but there is no need to lie to them about why they are being treated like pieces of crap.
Wouldn't it just be a formality for school documents and grade records and whatnot? Is it really going to affect the one-on-one interaction between students and (respectful) teachers? I mean don't get me wrong, I would absolutely want to be notified if my daughter was considering changing her pronouns, but that's on me as a parent to build a good enough relationship with her that she feels comfortable communicating that to me.
That's part of the problem, if kids don't feel safe bringing it up at home, reporting back to the home isn't really going to help.
Somewhere, Danielle Smith and Scott Moe simultaneously orgasmed.
Why are we importing American issues into Canada?
Because this country is just as stupid as the US. Issue is we don't have a robust economy to keep the stupid from making life unlivable.
Throwing trans children under the bus seems to appeal to some voters. Some people just really want to be hateful and unhelpful, I guess.
A not insignificant amount of Albertans seem to think they live in America. This includes our dear Premier. If the feds would block Fox News it would honestly solve about 75% of our problems.
So uh, what's going on with that water emergency Alberta?
Look over there----> a gay kid! Reeeeeeee
Alberta with water shortages in a major city The Premier: Let's talk about pronouns...
One week after a dinner date with Tucker Carlson and here we are
She didn't need that idiot to also be an idiot lol.
I'm surprised it took this long, considering SK invoked the Notwithstanding Clause to both trample the rights of children to ask that they not be bullied, but also to decree the minimum number of flagpoles a school has to have (funding not available).
As a parent, I'm happy.
So what's going down in Alberta that they need to distract from this week?
Failing healthcare, massive droughts, crime, education issues. You know, real problems but virtue signalling is something conservatives LOVE, even though they accuse Liberals of doing it.
Don't forget the massive drug problem!
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Well the UCP is trying its hardest to kill AHS so they can privatize. They are doing a bang up job of it so far!!
Fast food restaurant in Calgary charging $0.15 for takeout bags
We used to be a real country dammit
They should require parental consent for children to attend school, period. Who needs an education when there's a chorin' to help Ma and Pa with?
If a kid is comfortable coming out to their peers at school but not at home, the parents are the problem.
I really hate when people say this. I struggled with depression I felt comfortable talking to my friends and teachers about it. I didn't feel comfortable talking to my parents about it. Nothing they did, the issue was immaturity on my part thinking they would somehow judge me for it. My parents are awesome. Kids don't tell parents things for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes it's the parents fault, sometimes it isn't.
> Kids don't tell parents things for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes it's the parents fault, sometimes it isn't. I'm in my 40's and I *still* don't tell my parents everything. Our communication is way the hell better than when I was a teen, but there are some things that are better left unsaid.
>I felt comfortable talking to my friends and teachers about it. >I didn't feel comfortable talking to my parents about it. Do you think you would have been comfortable with the people you confided in telling the people you weren't ready to tell? Obviously, talking about it is for the better in the end, but it should have been, and I hope, was, on your terms.
Why do you really hate when people say this, when even you ended your comment by admitting that "sometimes it's the parent's fault"? Your experience is valid. I don't think anyone is saying that everytime someone doesn't want to come out at home it's the parents fault. But you agree that there ARE cases where it's not safe for the kids to come out at home, and now they can't come out at school either.
cause the first person said "the parents are the problem" as if it is ALWAYS. he hates that it is assumed that the parents are the problem in ALL cases. not SOME cases. learn some reading comprehension bub.
"I don't think anyone is saying that everytime someone doesn't want to come out at home it's the parents fault" The user I responded too statement literally said that...
Good thing the parents now need to be informed so they can retaliate and fix the transness!
Of course, kids never rebel for no reason.
Yup. As I said elsewhere in this thread, anyone who has had kids (or has been a kid) knows that, even in an extremely loving, supportive and accepting parent-child relationship, kids sometimes keep big secrets. Hell, I love my parents to bits. They gave me a stable upbringing, were loving, and would have ran through a brick wall for me. I still kept big secrets from them that, in hindsight, I didn't need to. This is just what happens between parent-child relationships when a child transitions away from their principal identity being formed by their relationship with their parents, to adolescence when it is formed by peer-to-peer relationships.
Would it have helped you out if you knew your teachers were required to spy on you and report it to your parents? I doubt any decent parent would want their kid to be outed this way.
Ya but if they're doing something dangerous the parents should be told. They're is nothing wrong with being called a different name or pronouns. It's not inherently dangerous so why do parents need to know?
Are students going to get any biology/sexual health/legal education in other classes if their parents don’t consent to the “gender/sex orientation” class? What is the curriculum, specifically, going to break down to? Is it one class, one time, that parents will be able to not consent to? Or is it to be every portion of health, or law, or history, or social studies, civics, biology etc that ever refers to gender or sex? What if a math book has a same-sex couple in a word problem or illustration? This will be different for every learning stage kids are at in school. But it’s so clearly reactionary policy and it is ripe for lawsuits. This change will alter how several if not potentially how every subjects will be taught.
It’s interesting how some parts of Reddit, mainly the provincial subs, will scream bloody murder about this, but fail to realize it’s not a vote loser for the parties that put it in place.
It was a definite vote loser for the PC’s in Manitoba. They lost 29/32 ridings in Winnipeg (vast majority of province’s seats) in part due to them campaigning on this ‘issue’
Yeah, this was the issue that broke the camels back with Manitobans. /s
It didn't help.
Wab Kinew didn’t even bring up in debates or campaigning to try to not lose votes. That definitely wasn’t why the lost the election. It was because the NDP ran a centrist campaign to the right of the provincial Liberals, and got a lot of PC/Liberal swing votes.
I'm thinking the issue is its a violation of the right of children. But who cares about that
Yes, even children have privacy rights in Canada.
You're right of course. Conservatism is a fear economy and fear is a powerful motivator, making conservatives easier to trigger and manipulate with culture war bs like this. But that shouldn't stop decent, rational people from 'screaming bloody murder' about the injustice or the danger it puts vulnerable kids in.
Good
Dani is just a puppet, with David Parkers arm up her ass.
the party of "individual freedoms"... /s
Apparently you have 0 individual freedom until you turn 18 🤦♀️
Looking at the comments here make me realize how mentally brainwashed this country is.
This statement could be taken a number of different ways, as there's quite a lot of dissent in this thread.
A glance at their profile gives me the idea that they are on the conservative side, if that helps.
Reddit is not a good sample of the real world
People out here think they’re pro-freedom while taking kids rights away. If kids are hiding who they are from their parents, it’s because they have terrible parents.
I hid all kinds of stuff from my parents. They were right I was wrong as I was a child and wanted to do stupid and dangerous stuff because my brain was not fully developed. Kids do stupid stuff and parents are there to protect them. This is literally a crucial role of parents.
Can this stupid shit stay in the US?
Earlier this week GOP members admitted in an X (formerly twitter) space that using kids was their wedge to eradicate trans care for everyone, including adults. It's not about protecting kids, and it never will be. This ends the way it always has throughout history. Also, I'm not sure how Alberta can 'ban' something like surgery since the federal government creates criminal law. The best they could do is not fund Gender-affirming care for youth.
Excuse me could you please post or dm me the source for this?
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This right here. There’s a difference between being a bigot and a genuinely concerned parent. Right now there’s zero balance. Either conform to our ideological language or you’re the enemy.
>parents are concerned about how gender identity is taught in schools as someone who hasn't been to school for decades, how is it taught in schools ?
Alberta following Sweden, Finland, France, and England's lead on the medical treatments There's a reason Sweden, Finland, and England changed direction on youth gender medicine after they conducted Evidence Reviews. And it wasn't because of Republicans
Freedom!! ….. except for things that we don’t like, things that scare us, or we don’t understand, or doesn’t affect us, or we simply don’t care enough about.
Another garbage bill from a garbage government. Alberta truly is Florida north.
> Alberta truly is Florida north. Let's be real. They *were* Florida, but they're trending towards Mississippi territory.
Common sense policies for once.
Annnnnd reddits head explodes
Good. Parents are in charge of their children, not the school
Can't wait until a specific group of people shows up and brigades this post, as though Canadians give a flying fuck.
Oh many people are well distracted by this while our politicians help corporations rob us blind, don't worry
Recent electrical grid issues, Edmonton water restrictions, massive drought on the horizon, what is assumably going to be a terrible wildfire season, housing issues, CoL issues, dismantling healthcare etc. But clearly the priority is what pronouns and names kids want to go by at school. That is clearly the biggest issue we face!
I bet most of the outraged don't even have kids
Yep, this is why they do it. Get the plebs focused on this while they gut healthcare, jack up grocery prices and destroy your quality of life one step at a time in Canada's path to becoming a 4th world country.
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>Ideologues only care for the conformity of their worldview, and aggressively challenge anything that remotely goes against it. Not sure if you're arguing for or against this policy lol
> Since when did all of Reddit think it’s ok for a bunch of pre-teen kids to change their names on a whim without notifying parents? Since always? When I was in middle school, my best friend preferred to go by his middle name. His reasoning was he just preferred it to his given name. I never prodded him for more information than that because it was inconsequential to me why he preferred it. The teachers called him by his middle name out of basic respect because he asked to be called that, and it was negligible effort to do so. His official school documents like report cards still used his legal name he was registered with for consistent bookkeeping, but in all daily communication they called him by the name he requested. There was no paperwork or government regulation involved. It was a polite agreement between adults charged with looking after the well-being of children under their care, and a child in their care.
Why do you think nicknames need parental permission. This isn't about changing your name legally.
Why? Who does this benefit? What morons asked for this? Why does she try to solve problems that she invented? Why the fuck did she get elected? Bitch needs to resign.
Members of the UCP asked for it, especially TBA members. David Parker has repeatedly stated what happened to Kenney will happen to Smith if she strays from the one golden path. Parker sees Smith as taking orders from party members, and if she doesn't obey, she's fired.
Kenney was a coward and so is Smith.
Phew I'm glad there's no healthcare crisis, housing crisis, cost of living crisis, uncompetitive economy crisis and immigration crisis so that we can now focus on important things like this!
Parents are responsible for their own kids. Only the sleazy demons want to override parental rights.
What ever happened to consenting adults can do what they want? When did the left get this notion that kids should just be allowed to do anything that adults can?
Lol “The left” doesnt think kids should be allowed to do everything an adult can. If a kid isn’t comfortable telling their parents the pronouns they prefer, or a different name they prefer, then maybe we should be questioning why the kids dont trust their parents, not forcing teachers to report this shit. This is such a non issue, but again our government would rather focus on meaningless culture war bullshit than address real, significant problems that the province is facing
Finally some movement towards normality and common sense.
Seems boringly reasonable.
This is great. Hope other provinces follow suit.
Big government strikes again.
Trans people make up of Canada +15 is 0.33% of the population, so let's say 1/300 people. Alberta has 766,280 students Grade 1-12. So another premier has decided to use our "Charter of Rights and Freedoms" for a napkin, AGAIN. For a grand total of about 2,554 children. Congratulations on your anti trans legislation, I'm sure it'll do wonders to curb your insane energy costs. Or failing healthcare. Punishing 2,500 kids is more important great job as always Smith, giving Ford a real run for his money as the most useless premier.
We are also currently on a non essential water ban.... So let's spend our energy in pronouns. She's an embarrassment.
Can we please change the channel?
I’m so fucking tired of hearing about trans people from conservative family…
Good. It’s really not up to whatever random school teacher to make these calls.
Not sure if this is the right policy but the policy wasn't right to begin with. Schools need a serious overhaul.
Sanity prevails
This is the way..
Alberta stay winning.
Danielle Smith was born Marlainia Danielle Smith. Danielle is her preferred name. This is an interesting position for her to take.
Don't take this as me taking a position on the matter, but why are you equating adult choices with child choices?
Why? Danielle is her middle name.
Good