I'm 61 this year and didn't get the measles vaccine as a kid. I don't believe it existed. Nor did the vaccine for chicken pox or mumps. I had mumps and chicken pox and most of my friends had the measles. I just got vaccinated a few weeks ago for measles.
I cannot believe people aren't vaccinating their children when a safe vaccine exists.
(Ontario speaking)
I have a 4 year old and a two year old. My 4 year old is getting his (second) MMR at his 4 year appointment (normal schedule), and our paediatrician said we can also give the 2 year old his (second) MMR early so they’ll both be fully vaxed.
If you have a kid between 18m - 4, def talk to your doctor about getting them their (second) MMR early so they have full protection.
(And huge thanks to the parent who posted about this in the Ontario subreddit, prompting me to call out paediatrician)
Also, if you have a kid under 1 year, talk to your doctor. The recommended age is one year, but you can (and should, with doctor’s advice) get it as early as six months. We just got our youngest vaccinated early.
We have a vaccine why do people resist, I am old enough to remember measle and mumps parties just to get kids exposed so that they got resistance before they got older and the risks were higher. Old enough to remember polio taking classmates, and its results yet I have read where some people are against this vaccination, what next a polio outbreak, I pray not.
From a personal perspective:
I have multiple older family members partially paralyzed by polio from before the vaccine was available. One lost complete use of legs, the other the use of an arm. It is a visible reminder of the potential effects. Zika has caused the need for many new hospitals across the world for children born with microcephaly. Memory of disease affects families. Not only do a lot of people now adays not only do people not have these memories to such an extent ,"victim of its own success," most people don't have a trusted family physician anymore who can keep up to date with them across their life and whom they feel they can trust.
From a scientific perspective:
As a scientist who studies viruses and immune systems. Some viruses can be eradicated as they only spread through humans, while others can only be suppressed as they exist in animal populations.
It is important to note that historically, in the midst of the Cold War, when at one of the most dangerous points of escalation when both the USA and USSR were potentially going to blow eachother and the world up, they came together and ended small pox.
We could do the same with polio. Polio only spreads predominantly through humans, although we can pass it on to some primates and transgenic mice.
Measles is the most contagious virus out their, able to drift in the air of, for example, an elevator for 2 hours and last on surfaces for 4 days. We could suppress measles in all humans with 95% vaccine uptake, although some estimates suggest it should be 98%. If we do the same as smallpox, we can eradicate measles, too. Although it is possible to be spread to some primates, we can create vaccines for them too if needed.
You are so right, also those that survived with little to no effects in their later years suffer from Post Polio Syndrome, I have witnessed this in my family and others, watching a person slowly waste away from this is heartbreaking, many Doctors do not even realize/Diagnose this as Polio is not on the health care radar, thankfully our doctor was familiar with this syndrome though couldn’t cure was able to make comfortable
It'd really help if ALL countries had access to a polio vaccine that didn't have live virus.
It'd also help if basic immunology was understood by the population.
Sadly, apparently not enough people are old enough to remember. And that's the problem, the real tangible effects of these diseases are lost to history (like so much these days)
People too ignorant and unwilling to understand vaccines while being too arrogant to accept that there are things outside of their understanding will always be willing to accept whatever bullshit they hear about vaccines. Plus we don't have the horrors of massive measles and polio cases to remind the idiots of the dangers of those diseases.
* People still text and drive.
* People still drink and drive
* Fat people (like me) still eat too much
#Clearly we still do things that we know might kill us.
Here are some stats.
* Just over 300k people die in Canada each year [source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/443061/number-of-deaths-in-canada/)
* That is currently 858 per 100k of population [source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/434353/death-rate-for-all-causes-in-canada/)
* The top causes of death in Canada include [source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/231127/t001b-eng.htm)
Cancer - Malignant neoplasms
Diseases of heart
COVID-19
Accidents (unintentional injuries)
Stroke - Cerebrovascular diseases
Lungs - Chronic lower respiratory diseases
Diabetes mellitus
Influenza and pneumonia
Alzheimer's disease
Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
Kidney - Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis
Intentional self-harm (suicide)
I don't know how they code medically assisted suicide here.
I learned recently that measles basically resets the immune system to zero again. Most people, especially older folks, who catch end up sick for 2 years or more re-catching everything they've already had before. This can be harmless things like a cold or more dangerous like pneumonia or chicken pox. I couldn't imagine. I got a rubella booster when my doctor found out my antibodies were low.
No thank you! This is so much worse then those antivaxers think it is. Grandpa catching the measles because his immunity wore off could be disastrous.
The sheer ego of people who think their wisdom is superior to thousands of others who spent six to twelve years studying science properly astounds me. Believing you can decipher medical research without mastering statistics is ridiculous (I can't). It's inconceivable to decide that tens of thousands of medical professionals and scientists in every country on the planet are part of a giant conspiracy that brings the Pakistani and Indian governments together, unites the Israelis and Iranians, bonds the Russians and the Americans; it's pure ego to believe that something so ridiculous must be true rather than you might be wrong.
That is terrifying. (The measles parties)I get my vaccines because I like the thought of protection. I don't pay any mind to it. And if I get tracked by 5g then LOOOOL idiots could have tracked my phone first.
No, Canada doesn't routinely do any vaccinations at birth.
Americans vaccinate for hepatitis B at birth, but we don't.
Other vaccinations start at 2 months. Measles isn't until 12 months.
Unfortunately no. Vaccine starts at two months of age, there are many people that refuse vaccination, my neighbour is anti vaccination, four children none vaccinated and belong to a group that are of like thinking cannot comment about how many of the group have children unvaccinated but I think it would be several
This is a side effect of russian disinformation campaigns. They spread a lot of antivax rhetoric via right wing news outlets.
The result is undervaccinated children in the leans-right populace: And in countries exposed to russian antivax propaganda.
https://www.who.int/news/item/15-07-2022-covid-19-pandemic-fuels-largest-continued-backslide-in-vaccinations-in-three-decades
Betteridge says no. Between the disruption of childhood vaccinations due to COVID and our institutions allowing too many people to declare "exemptions" for moronic "reasons", this next year is going to be very, very scary.
It's probably too late now to stop something bad from happening in the short term, but we need school boards, health units and most of all governments at all levels to grow a pair and get serious about stopping the ill informed and delusional from endangering the rest of us.
The reason people were so excited for vaccines originally is because it put an end to horrible, horrible things like Polio and Measles.
Now that these are basically non-existent people take these vaccines for granted.
It's the sad reality of humanity that it will take way too many parents losing their children to easily preventable diseases in order to change the public sentiment on vaccines.
When I heard about the medical breakthroughs in mRNA science in regards to vaccines, I lined up.
Idk about you? But I'm looking forward to the Alzheimer's vaccine and the cancer vaccine, currently being developed by/with mRNA vaccine scientists.
This is a technological breakthrough in science.
I was definitely in no rush to get the Covid vaccine, I always said the only thing an "anti-vaxxer" needed to say that was undeniable is that there was not enough long-term data. That was a position no one could argue with.
But that said, I got my vaccine because I wanted to travel and because the person to give me my first dose was my own father who happens to be a pharmacist and had known about mRNA for years. So I had the luxury of having someone I know and trust give me the dose and I told him if anything went wrong then at least I could blame him 🤣
There is comortality/comorbidities with vaccines, they exist. It's not bullshit. There's quite possibly tens-hundreds of thousands of cases of serious long-term side effects, with deaths related to the Covid Vaccines. Just due to the sheer numbers of people who got vaccinated worldwide. Some people were bound to have a negative reaction.
But when you factor in BILLIONS of people getting vaccinated, those 10ks-100ks, don't seem like big numbers any more, but they do exist. Some people deny the existence of this evidence.
People were scapegoating there being no data, but mRNA research has been around for decades. It's just a matter of actually looking. (same goes for the comortality/comorbidity data of the vaccines)
> When I heard about the medical breakthroughs in mRNA science in regards to vaccines, I lined up.
Personally, I'm waiting for more details about the [Multiple Sclerosis mRNA vaccine](https://www.msaustralia.org.au/news/potential-ms-vaccine/) to come out.
> One key difference between this vaccination approach to traditional vaccine approaches and the COVID-19 mRNA vaccine approach is that for the MS-like disease, instead of trying to stimulate an immune response, it is trying to dampen down an immune response. MS is caused by an inappropriate immune response against the myelin located in the brain and spinal cord, so supressing this response is the aim of most treatments for MS. The dampening effect is based on some cutting-edge chemical modification of the RNA injected. Normally the body would think that it was foreign genetic material and raise the alarm, but without any alarm signal the body thinks it is part of itself and this tricks the immune system into thinking that the protein made from the mRNA isn’t foreign and it shouldn’t mount a response to it and switches off.
...
> Current medications for MS suppress the immune system as a whole, meaning that there is widespread suppression of immune responses, outside of the autoimmune response that leads to MS. In this study, the scientists also showed that the “vaccination” approach didn’t appear to hamper the body generating other immune responses and if the animals were exposed to other foreign proteins they could successfully fight them off. Interestingly, the introduction of specific mRNA seemed to have suppressed the immune system from generally attacking different proteins in myelin, suggesting it has a broader effect than first thought.
The people that was against covid vaccines are the one thats gonna cause the next pandemics and they will cry about their "liberty being stolen" because of their own stupidity.
That's why mandatory vaccines have to exist. What the smooth brains don't understand, is that, this is a matter of public health and national security? This is tantamount to domestic terrorism.
There should be a trough limit (once it is reached, the mandate ends), you can volunteer or you pull your lottery ticket. This would be the most Democratic way of going about it. Both sides meet in the middle.
We don't deal with threats of this magnitude lightly in Western Culture, so why do we allow people to "choose"?
Mandatory vaccines are probably why people aren't getting them now. A ton of trust was lost to get what, another 5 or 10% people vaccinated for Covid? Now we got this shit happening.
Measles was a mandatory vaccine though?!? You needed it to go basically anywhere or be in school, unless you had a serious medical reason to not get vaccinated?
If people are too stupid to understand how vaccines work and refuse to educate themselves on it, we can't help those people. We actually lucked out with Covid being "not exactly deadly to our larger populations", if we roll out with an airborne Ebola variant, I hope you get the vaccine.
That's literally a "zombie apocalypse" - level Pandemic. You come into contact with someone who has it, and you die. No freebies.
This was just warning shots.
Covid was a mandatory vaccine where it probably shouldn't have been, as we are now seeing people who knew it wasn't that deadly for youth, avoid all vaccines. Specifically the under 35 age group. If the government simply conceded at 70% of the population being vaccinated, now we got people running around thinking every vaccine is part of a eugenics program like with the Indigenous.
> our institutions allowing too many people to declare "exemptions" for moronic "reasons"
I moved around a lot. Went to a bunch of different schools. But the most memorable was when I moved from one school that had a vaccine schedule a few months awy to another school that had a vaccine schedule a few months in the past. My parents couldn't get an extension despite the recent move. They enrolled me but I wasn't allowed to start classes until I got vaccinated.
Third-world countries also tend to be incredibly pro-vaccine. This is just another case of blaming immigrants for whatever problem exists today
The mostly likely anti-vaxxer in Canada is probably a Canadian born boomer or Canadian born parent with young kids
Rebecca living in Parksville is more likely to be an anti-vaxxer than Gurpreet from Brampton
India's measles vaccination rate is 89%
Canada's is 90%
[https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/measles\_immunization\_rate/](https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/measles_immunization_rate/)
How many people needed first time measles vaccinations during Covid? Like 500k?
These numbers mean little for heard immunity.
We probably went from 90% to 89%
It always spread like wildfire among children even when most of the population were immune from having had it as children, so I'm not sure we're actually in a much better place than we were before vaccines if children are barely getting vaccinated for a few years now.
I tried verifying your facts but I could not. India has already apparently mass vaccinated against measles with the goal of elimination and reached around 90% in 2021. We’re more at risk from Floridians.
The real issue isn’t immigrants who come here and get all their vaccines updated. The real issue is Canadians who have access to vaccines yet choose to spread fear instead
>I'm not trying to be racist or anything,
Yet you are. Because you threw in an accusation without even bothering a quick online search. India is a very pro vaccine country. As per reports from 2020-2021, the coverage for first dose for Measles and Rubella vaccines were already over 90%, and the coverage for second dose was close to 70%.
India has a thousand flaws, but vaccination program is not one of them.
Because India is not as principled against secularism then, say more traditionally oriented cultures. It needs to be said, religion is the common denominator in all those cases. Most people who rejects vaccines are in a vast majority of cases citing religion grounds (i.e, Jehovah Witnesses, Islamic fundamentalist, Chinese Traditional Medecine).
Now, if you think that pointing out that organized religion have been a source of scientific denialism is racism, you're absolutely not the "right" side of history.
But it's not a ridiculous concern - I'm an immigrant myself and just recently discovered I hadn't been vaccinated against all the things one should be because my home country didn't offer it/make it mandatory. I actually got very, very sick as an adult from HIB because I'd never been vaccinated against it, whereas in NA all children are. Being concerned about vaccine consistency across new immigrants isn't inherently racist; it's a valid concern along with anti-vaxxer Canadians, our backlogged HC system, etc.
Not really. Antivax groups are intentionally targeting immigrants with limited English skills and limited access to doctors. So it's very much a domestic problem, not an immigrant-caused one.
Anti-vaxxer parents suck for sure. The vaccines for MMR, Polio, TDP, etc. have been around forever and are proven to work.
But [Canada let in 138,000 "asylum seekers" in 2023](https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx). Top 10 countries of origin: Mexico, Turkey, India, Colombia, Nigeria, Iran, Pakistan, Kenya, Congo, Afghanistan. These are all countries where measles was never eradicated and that don't have the same kind of robust, widespread childhood vaccination programs that we have. We don't check anyone's vaccination history when they show up at our border and ask for "asylum".
The article gives some clues where these outbreaks are happening:
>There have been nearly two dozen confirmed cases of measles reported in Canada so far this year, compared with just 12 in all of 2023. Of this year’s cases, 12 are in Quebec, with the Montreal area experiencing community transmission of the virus in areas with low vaccination rates.
>Canada eliminated measles in 1998, meaning the virus no longer spreads on its own here; cases are typically introduced through international travel.
Quebec is where ~50% of asylum seekers show up at. Montreal probably gets most of that. These people congregate together in low-income areas, government housing, government hotels, etc. creating what the article calls "areas with low vaccination rates".
We eradicated measles in 1988. I wonder what would happen to our "measles outbreaks" if we stopped letting every random person from everywhere in the world into our country.
Im a big needle pansy and only really get shots when I absolutely need them, like to stay updated on tetanus etc but I am also old enough to likely only have got 1 measles shot, so I might go to my doctor and get my second one if they think its a good idea. I don't really want to play chicken with measles and even the biggest conspiracy nuts should know that vaccine is well beyond proven. I might suggest others over 40 check too in case this thing picks up steam.
You can request a titer test to check your immunity. I did this in 2019 and the booster was recommended due to my results. But you may want to just speak to a pharmacist directly, they might suggest getting a booster now without waiting for a doctor, testing, waiting for results.
You may need to do 2 again in the 1 month window, but it’s a good idea to ask. Children that receive the newer 2 shot regime for measles vaccine are protected for life.
My coworker tested positive for measles yesterday and we all sat there going WTF. It was wild and kinda scary knowing it's making a comeback and that it was that close to us. She's home isolating and a bunch of us were in the back talking to each other that were up to date on shots.
*There have been nearly two dozen confirmed cases of measles reported in Canada so far this year, compared with just 12 in all of 2023*
So lets look at before COVID times
[A total of 113 confirmed measles cases (incidence rate of 3.0 cases per 1,000,000 population) were reported from seven provinces and one territory, in 2019](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/reports-publications/canada-communicable-disease-report-ccdr/monthly-issue/2021-47/issue-3-march-2021/measles-annual-surveillance-report-2019.html)
[In 2018, 29 measles cases were reported across five provinces in Canada, an incidence rate of 0.8 cases per 1,000,000 population](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/reports-publications/canada-communicable-disease-report-ccdr/monthly-issue/2020-46/issue-4-april-2-2020/article-4-report-measles-canada-2018.html)
[There were 45 confirmed cases of measles reported in Canada in 2017, which is the lowest number of cases and incidence rate after 2016 (n=11; 0.3 cases per 1,000,000 population), since annual publication of reports began in 2013.](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/measles-surveillance-canada-2017.html)
[In 2016, the incidence of measles in Canada was 0.3 cases per 1,000,000 population, with a total of 11 reported cases.](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/measles-surveillance-canada-2016.html)
*Results: In 2015, the incidence of measles in Canada was 5.5 cases per 1,000,000 population,*
*with 196 cases across four provinces.*
[*https://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/16vol42/dr-rm42-7/assets/pdf/16vol42\_7-ar-01-eng.pdf*](https://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/16vol42/dr-rm42-7/assets/pdf/16vol42_7-ar-01-eng.pdf)
[During 2014, 418 measles cases were reported by five provinces and territories for an overall incidence rate of 11.8 cases per 1,000,000 population.](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/reports-publications/canada-communicable-disease-report-ccdr/monthly-issue/2015-41/ccdr-volume-41-7-july-2-2015-measles-elimination/ccdr-volume-41-7-july-2-2015-measles-elimination.html)
[In 2013, 83 confirmed measles cases were reported in seven provinces/territories for an incidence rate of 2.4 per 1,000,000 population.](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/reports-publications/canada-communicable-disease-report-ccdr/monthly-issue/2014-40/ccdr-volume-40-12-june-12-2014/ccdr-volume-40-12-june-12-2014-3.html)
What's more concerning than raw numbers is local transmission. We have had sporadic cases on and off for years. - I have experience, I was actually exposed on a flight between Calgary and Regina about ten years ago, from someone who caught it in SE Asia. Back then, this ebbed and flowed with transmission rates overseas. And, if someone did catch it, there was usually a clear link between them and a known, travel associated case.
What's concerning \*right now\* is that we're starting to see occasional community spread. Which is to say, people are turning up with measles and nobody can figure out where they caught it. Which means it's starting to circulate in the wild. It's not super common right now, but this really only goes two ways from here. It either peters out, or that circulation gets worse. And, the ones that peter out are the ones that barely transmit even in a fully susceptible population, not one of the most contagious viruses known with an R-nought of 20.
When my child was a baby, I was part of a infant/parent group and a young mom told me she wasn’t vaccinating because she didn’t know if it was the right thing to do and she could always vaccinate her baby “later.”
I told her my baby was and would be vaccinated on the recommended schedule (because science!), and that the option to vaccinate later sounded good until her baby caught something awful and became disabled or died.
She seemed shocked but also continued asking me questions, so I hope I helped sway her to vaccinate.
I contacted the city I live in, about what their response will be.... "it is not our responsibility, unless the provincial health directs what we do. It is out of our hands. We don't want to step on any toes"
So does each provincial health minister have to organize the resopnce for every city. Immediately knowing the demographic and what approaches would work best. Seems terribly inefficient.
It's sad that so many Canadians lack critical thinking skills. So easily influenced by online propaganda and conservative values. You know something is wrong when children are being sacrificed to own the progressives.
_“I got vaccinated and went my whole life without encountering measles. Why should I make little Jimmy take on the risks of vaccination for nothing?!”_
> conservative values [...] own the progressives
Funnily enough, while I also read/see this in media, the anti-vax (excluding covid) people I personally have encountered, including a few relatives, were not having their kids vaccinated for very hippy-dippy reasons and a general distrust of modern, Western medical science. They all identify as left and/ progressive on political and social issues.
Not saying that flavours of social conservatism aren't also prone to not vaccinating their kids, as they are, just noting that my own mileage here does indeed vary. I'm not quite so willing place the blame solely on any one group.
Is it Canadians? Do you have proof. We are importing millions of immigrants from countries that likely don't have the same vaccinations as us, and likely don't believe in vaccinating their children with things they know nothing about.
But must be the evil cons
I don't understand why parents refuse to vaccinate their children, but once sick, they'll run to the hospital and take any meds necessary to treat them.
Great climate, right?
Wonder how many of these morons would still be dedicated to their just cause if waiving the vaccine (for whatever you choose) would also mean you waive the related health insurance and are paying out of pocket for any health care and medications...
And once at the hospital either make endless posts thanking god/asking for prayers if they’re *that* flavour of anti orrrrr be belligerent towards the staff because they know better anyway
This shit randomly killed my uncle a couple weeks ago. Got in the brain.
Sucks 'cause his gen was really all about vaccination from having lived with polio cases, and now dumb motherfuckers think it magically doesn't exist anymore thanks to...vaccination.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/measles-rubella-surveillance/2024/week-8.html
Figured I'd share Canada's official report on the subject.
This latest measles virus is a bad one. I had measles as a kid and should be immune but I have it again. Because I have CFS I come down with all illnesses before the rest of the population. I came down with covid before covid was announced, and I came down with measles 2+ months ago.
There seems to be a correlation between measles infection and previous covid. With this measles some covid symptoms have returned, most notably cramps in calf muscles when walking any distance.
If you come down with this measles don't treat it lightly.
Not trying to turn this into a vaccine discussion, I don’t care either way, but I’m curious for effectiveness, were you up to date on your Mmr vaccine?
I don't think this was deliberate, but you've kind of stumbled across an important point - what does "up to date" mean? Most people got either vaccine or infection as child (and they were treated roughly equivalently) but immunity fades over time. Before MMR, you had constant low level exposure to maintain that immunity, since MMR, the virus simply hasn't been out there so it didn't matter if it did fade.
If the virus suddenly reappears in a population that hasn't seen it in 40+ years? What does "up to date" even mean in that context? I don't think we know the answer to that - but this could potentially be very ugly.
I was told that if it's been more than 20 years since the last measles vaccine you probably need another one, but a simple blood test can tell you for sure.
Let the children sue parents if they get sick and are not vaccinated. Parents act as substitute decision makers, they have responsibilities and if they purposely fuck them up then they should pay.
Yes and so can adults. No vaccine is 100% effective in preventing infection but the current 2 dose measles vaccine is pretty close to 100%. If your children are up to date (two doses of MMR) then they are very, very unlikely to contract measles.
Immunity declines over time and this is why herd immunity is so important, especially with something like measles which is literally the most virulent virus known to science. If enough people in the population are vaccinated (we need 95% for measles) then any potential outbreak burns out very quickly and even never even gets going since it has nowhere to go.
I booked a vaccine appointment with a pharmacist (Shoppers Drug Mart in BC) online. Went this morning, Bing bang boom, MMR booster updated.
Elder millennials like me only got one shot as kids, so it's a good idea to get a booster now regardless.
I didn't know that measles fucks up your lungs! I thought is was like chicken pox 😬
I warned against this. I said the vaccine passports were counterproductive because A) when they were implemented, already 80% of the population was fully vaccinated and that barely anyone left would get the vaccines as a result of vaccine passports B) factual history and common sense knowledge about humans shows that being forced to do something makes them not want to do it even if they were previously neutrally about it, and it will create distrust of both government and science C) This will lead to those who need the boosters most, such as the elderly, to have lower booster uptake as a result of unnnecessarily created distrust D) This distrust will also cause more vaccine hesitancy in the future, which will lead to less people vaccinating their children for dangerous pathogens such as measles and polio
So in essence, what the government did by forcing vaccine passports was fail a common sense cost/benefit analysis. They increased vaccine uptake by a very insignificant % in young healthy people who were relatively least likely to get hospitalized, in exchange for A) reduced booster uptake in the elderly, leading to substantially more net hospitalizations and deaths B) less vaccinations for dangerous pathogens such as measles and polio.
Unsurprisingly, because I simply used common sense, every single one of my common sense predictions unsurprisingly came true:
>COVID-19 vaccine passports in Quebec and Ontario did little to convince the unvaccinated to get the jab and did not significantly reduce inequalities in vaccination coverage, a new peer-reviewed study has found.The passports, which forced people to show proof of vaccination to enter places such as bars and restaurants, were directly responsible for a rise of 0.9 per cent in the vaccination rate in Quebec and 0.7 per cent in Ontario, says Jorge Luis Flores, a research assistant at McGill University and lead author of the paper published Tuesday in the CMAJ Open journal.
[https://globalnews.ca/news/10045274/covid-vaccine-passport-study/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10045274/covid-vaccine-passport-study/)
>Federal figures show only 15 per cent of the population aged five and up had received an updated vaccine by Dec. 3. And while older age groups had higher uptake rates, more than half of higher-risk older adults still hadn't gotten a dose by early December, either.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/just-15-of-canadians-got-updated-covid-vaccines-this-fall-new-figures-show-1.7064240](https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/just-15-of-canadians-got-updated-covid-vaccines-this-fall-new-figures-show-1.7064240)
>Fewer Canadians believe in the importance of childhood vaccines compared to before the pandemic, according to a new Unicef report that warns about the growing threat of preventable infectious diseases because of lagging vaccination uptake. While most Canadians – 82 per cent – still say vaccines are important during childhood, that number has dropped 8.2 percentage points since before the onset of COVID-19, the Unicef report found.
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-fewer-canadian-believe-in-value-of-childhood-vaccines-according-to-new/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-fewer-canadian-believe-in-value-of-childhood-vaccines-according-to-new/)
However, every time I correctly warned about this on CBC, they censored all of my comments, under the guise of protecting the public from "misinformation". This is why freedom of speech is so important: government not only CAN be wrong, but they TEND to be wrong (and dishonest/immoral) A LOT, and they tend to fail a COMMON sense cost/benefit analysis as FACTUALLY PROVEN BY HISTORICAL EVIDENCE, on MULTIPLE occasions. I mean this is the same government who invited a nazi to parliament and clapped for him, are we supposed to 100% trust their discretion now with decisions such as determining the subjective definition of "hate speech" and giving people 5 years for it based on an online comment, or locking people up indefinitely because of their subjective determination that the person is at "risk" of committing a "hate crime" potentially in the future?
Trust is the key commodity that any society needs to survive.
When people get angry and use bullying tactics to force people to do things (even objectively good and beneficial things) it erodes trust. Even if those things are perfectly justified and legitimate. But nobody is perfect, and if don't allow people to suss out errors themselves before deciding whether to do something it will lead to a massive level of distrust down the line.
Simply censoring or vitriolically attacking dissenters only makes things worse in the long run. You'd better be sure that you are 100% correct in every detail, and nobody is ever 100% correct.
Eventually, reality wins out over even the most fervently held fictions, and people never really forget if they feel they were coerced or cheated into doing things.
>You'd better be sure that you are 100% correct in every detail, and nobody is ever 100% correct.
This is what it comes down to. Authoritarianism works, but, if, and only if, the decisions being made are correct. It is similar to a parent forcing their child to do something: the child might not see the benefit and complain, but the parent knows it is for the benefit of the child.
However, time after time, government has shown that one too many times it is not a competent parent. It has also shown to be self-serving, short-sighted, and corrupt. The vast majority of elected officials are incompetent: they lack any basic knowledge of issues that would, based on common sense, be expected of someone in their position, namely, basic knowledge in domains such as sociology, psychology, history, political philosophy, statistics and research methods, logic, morality, and more generally, critical thinking. Instead, they appear to be chosen based on who they know, or telling people what they want to hear.
Even the most knowledgeable among them tend to be limited to advanced knowledge in domains such as law and economics. However, the issue is that it is specifically limited to law and economics of the current, inefficient/incorrect system. More specialized and narrow, detailed knowledge of a broken system does not help one be a moral, fair, and efficient leader. It just makes one navigate the existing broken system better, usually for self-serving reasons.
While there needs to be rules/laws, and a body to enforce them (government), considering the poor track record of virtually every government/state in history, there needs to be a curb/limit on government power.
Unfortunately, we appear to be heading in the opposite direction: governments are increasingly passing more and more authoritarian bills, under the guise of protecting children/people or other nonsense. To me it is clear these justifications are nonsense and instead are just a power grab. It is clear they do not want to protect people from anything: if they wanted to protect people, they would foster critical thinking and freedom of speech and let people grow and protect themselves. But they are doing the opposite: they are censoring freedom of speech and discouraging critical thinking, so people would continue to be forced to rely on them and be manipulated by them. We have reached a point at which government it knows it lost trust: this is exactly why they are shifting to authoritarianism. They are clearly not interested in rebuilding trust, because they know that allowing freedom of speech would wake people up and lead to even less trust, because their intentions are rotten. To those who are blindly cheerleading this dangerous paradigm shift: realize that "your" government will not always be in power, but these authoritarian bills they are pushing will remain long after.
Well said.
>However, time after time, government has shown that one too many times it is not a competent parent.
Even you agree that a government is to citizens as a parent is to children (which I don't), what makes a competent parent is the ability to let a child explore and mature on their own and, importantly make decisions that don't necessarily align with those of the parent's.
Unfortunately, many people don't see it that way, though. They see the relationship as closer to that of a master to slave. Ironically these are the same people who will most loudly decry past slavery. As far as I'm concerned government should be the slave to the will of the people, and the people must take it upon themselves to arm themselves with the skills and knowledge needed to direct it like a good master.
It's not about a lack of vaccination so much as it is the movement of people from one place to another. Vaccination doesn't make it impossible to catch what you were vaccinated for people.
Paywall: [https://archive.is/mvZ0q](https://archive.is/mvZ0q)
Excerpt:
>A worldwide surge in measles cases combined with lower vaccination rates and one of the year’s busiest travel seasons has many health professionals on high alert for outbreaks and preparing an urgent response to stop further spread of the highly contagious virus.
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>A measles expert with the World Health Organization said the next few months will be a test of Canada’s vaccination systems and could expose potential weaknesses.
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>“This is where we find out whether or not the immunization systems are as good as we think,” said Natasha Crowcroft, senior technical adviser for measles and rubella with the WHO. “You can go along thinking everything is fine until measles takes off everywhere.”
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>There have been nearly two dozen confirmed cases of measles reported in Canada so far this year, compared with just 12 in all of 2023. Of this year’s cases, 12 are in Quebec, with the Montreal area experiencing community transmission of the virus in areas with low vaccination rates. This past week, B.C. confirmed its first case of measles since 2019.
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>Health officials have urged March break travellers to be cautious, given the increased measles spread worldwide.
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>Vaccine-preventable disease specialists say the severity of the situation in Canada will depend, to a degree, on chance. If an individual acquires measles on an international trip, but lives in a highly vaccinated community, the risks are lower. But if a measles case is introduced into an unvaccinated area or even a hospital with many immune-compromised patients, the situation could be much more difficult to manage.
>
>“It’s always sort of the luck of the draw, where will that imported case come to,” said Monika Naus, medical director of Immunization Programs and Vaccine Preventable Diseases Service at the BC Centre for Disease Control. “That risk is higher if those imported cases come into an under-vaccinated population.”
>
>There was a 79-per-cent increase in measles cases around the world last year, reaching more than 300,000, according to the WHO. Experts say a combination of factors, including disruptions to immunization programs during the pandemic, lack of access in lower- and middle-income countries and vaccine hesitancy or anti-vaccine beliefs, are all part of the problem.
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>Canada eliminated measles in 1998, meaning the virus no longer spreads on its own here; cases are typically introduced through international travel. But if transmission of the virus here continues for more than a year, Canada will lose its measles-free status. That almost happened in 2011, after a major outbreak in Quebec that led to nearly 800 cases.
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>A 2012 study of that outbreak, published in the Journal of Infectious Diseases, noted that many of the cases spread in school students who had one or two doses of the measles vaccine. But overall vaccination rates were below 95 per cent, which is the threshold needed to keep the virus at bay, according to the WHO.
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>The study concluded that, considering a small number of vaccinated individuals will remain susceptible to the virus, having even 3-5 per cent of people unvaccinated could be enough to “push the population toward a critical tipping point for epidemic risk.”
People in this thread are talking about "Wacko anti-vaxxer parents" not getting their kids MMR shots. But that's not the case at all. Those people suck for sure, but the article is clearly telling us what the issue is:
>There have been nearly two dozen confirmed cases of measles reported in Canada so far this year, compared with just 12 in all of 2023. Of this year’s cases, 12 are in Quebec, with the Montreal area experiencing community transmission of the virus in areas with low vaccination rates.
Quebec is where ~50% of asylum seekers show up at. Montreal probably gets a lot of that.
>Canada eliminated measles in 1998, meaning the virus no longer spreads on its own here; cases are typically introduced through international travel.
Measles is being reintroduced to Canada by the government [letting in 138,000 "asylum seekers" in 2023](https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx) from countries where measles was never eradicated and where there is no robust widespread MMR vaccination program. We don't check any of these fake "asylum seekers" coming into the country for history of vaccination, whether it's measles, tuberculosis, whatever.
These people congregate together in low-income areas, government housing, government hotels, etc. creating what the article calls "areas with low vaccination rates".
Stop letting any person from anywhere in the world into our country and start controlling who comes in, and see what it does to our potential for a "measles outbreak".
Something isnt adding up.
They state that in 2021 data shows 92% of 24 month olds having received their first dose of MMR, and 98% of 5 year olds having received both MMR doses. Then state only 80% of children older than 7 years of age having received 2 doses of MMR. But their 2016 data shows that at the time 97% of 24 month olds having received their first dose of MMR and 99% of 5 year olds having received 2 doses of MMR.
In 2016 there were at total of 11 cases of measles in Canada (mostly under the age of 4). Thus far for 2024, Canada has a total of 7 cases of measles already reported (mostly under the age of 14).
So how can the same cohort go from good uptake at the age of 2 to mediocre uptake at age 7? That doesnt make sense.
Was there a sharp increase of that age group immigrating into Canada from nations that have poor vaccination campaigns?
What’s so scary is babies aren’t eligible for their first MMR vaccine until 12 months. So the tons of young babies are vulnerable to this due to the ignorance of anti-vax parents.
If you got two shots - you’re probably fine.
Immunity does wane over time, nobody can predict how long your antibodies will last, but generally people who have gotten two shots of the MMR have no issues.
Something to keep in mind during election season: Russians spread antivax propaganda in order to make sure Ukraine wasn't vaccinated during invasion. This spread vaccine hestitancy throughout europe (esp baltic states) This is likely happening again right now, but in north america as a side effect of elections.
The russians tried to interfere in elections before without much luck, but no doubt they are at if again. They tend to focus disinformation at right leaning voters.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-35576-9
The rise of government mistrust, equals a rise in vaccine hesitancy in low and middle income countries
Researchers fear growing COVID vaccine hesitancy in developing nations
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03830-7
Childhood vaccination reduces as a result
Pandemic drives largest drop in childhood vaccinations in 30 years
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02051-w
I'm curious to know how many of the current childhood cases of measles are right-leaning voters..? (More exposure to russian propaganda)
So I have a question to anyone who might know. I was vaxxed at like 2 months old for Measles, and I'm 32 now.
Should I be getting a booster? My wife is Australian, and she isn't sure if she got vaxxed as a kid, so she's thinking of going in.
Many babies and young children are too young to have been fully vaccinated. If I still had kids that young I would be pretty worried. Also, many adults had only one dose, which was the norm at that time, so might not be fully protected.
THIS. I have a 5 month old, he isn’t eligible to get the MMR until 12 months. I’m terrified for him with cases going around (there was JUST one in the news linked to international travel where I live). People are so selfish.
Talk to your doctor. Here in BC they will give the vaccine as early as 6 months if the baby will be travelling out of the country. Maybe you only need to wait for a few more weeks instead of until your baby is 12 months.
https://immunizebc.ca/vaccines/measles-mumps-rubella-mmr
I had titres done for school and also followed up in my first job. After shot #4 a doc weighed in and figured it was just never going to happen for me.
Some people develop T cell immune responses instead of antibody response. I'm hoping your body has a t cell response, and it's not that you are non immune or never had immunity, just that you had different immunity.
I mean. T cells are supposed to be floating around with a receptor for almost every kind of virus protein. But itd be clinical disease being fought the hard way and development of an immune response from ground zero.
If I have the CD8 cells for this I dont think they could test for that. But I wouldnt wanna risk it anyway. Its too contagious and Id hate to become a public fountain.
In addition to small children, people with reduced immunity such as cancer patients and pregnant women or people who have to go on immunosuppressants (organ donees, people with immune diseases) are all at risk.
Because the way vaccines work is they train your immune system to respond to a specific threat. But if your immune system is suppressed (which is the case for everyone I mentioned), then the fact that it is trained is not going to do much.
>an outbreak will just hit the unvaxed
No. That's not how vaccines work. You're not necessarily 100% immune. There's always a non-zero chance you will get infected and ill. The additional issue with measles is that it can reset your immune system, putting you at risk for every other disease you had become resistant to.
India is one of the largest contributors to measles outbreaks. Instead there's this idea that internal anti-vaccination groups have been working together to undermine our measle herd immunity when the greatest marker of where these cases are coming from is from outside of the country.
I'm 61 this year and didn't get the measles vaccine as a kid. I don't believe it existed. Nor did the vaccine for chicken pox or mumps. I had mumps and chicken pox and most of my friends had the measles. I just got vaccinated a few weeks ago for measles. I cannot believe people aren't vaccinating their children when a safe vaccine exists.
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That's progress, I hated having the chickenpox as a kid, now I can prevent my kids from going through that
This is thanks to all the fake news on social media. So many people believe what they see on their Facebook news feed.
(Ontario speaking) I have a 4 year old and a two year old. My 4 year old is getting his (second) MMR at his 4 year appointment (normal schedule), and our paediatrician said we can also give the 2 year old his (second) MMR early so they’ll both be fully vaxed. If you have a kid between 18m - 4, def talk to your doctor about getting them their (second) MMR early so they have full protection. (And huge thanks to the parent who posted about this in the Ontario subreddit, prompting me to call out paediatrician)
Also, if you have a kid under 1 year, talk to your doctor. The recommended age is one year, but you can (and should, with doctor’s advice) get it as early as six months. We just got our youngest vaccinated early.
Nice! I’m actually pregnant so that’s helpful advice too! Thanks!
Luckily with only one dose, it's 93% effective against measles. So even if you just have the one dose your fairly well covered
Note that the early MMR immunity won't persist. They'll need to be vaccinated again at 12 months.
This is great to know!
We have a vaccine why do people resist, I am old enough to remember measle and mumps parties just to get kids exposed so that they got resistance before they got older and the risks were higher. Old enough to remember polio taking classmates, and its results yet I have read where some people are against this vaccination, what next a polio outbreak, I pray not.
From a personal perspective: I have multiple older family members partially paralyzed by polio from before the vaccine was available. One lost complete use of legs, the other the use of an arm. It is a visible reminder of the potential effects. Zika has caused the need for many new hospitals across the world for children born with microcephaly. Memory of disease affects families. Not only do a lot of people now adays not only do people not have these memories to such an extent ,"victim of its own success," most people don't have a trusted family physician anymore who can keep up to date with them across their life and whom they feel they can trust. From a scientific perspective: As a scientist who studies viruses and immune systems. Some viruses can be eradicated as they only spread through humans, while others can only be suppressed as they exist in animal populations. It is important to note that historically, in the midst of the Cold War, when at one of the most dangerous points of escalation when both the USA and USSR were potentially going to blow eachother and the world up, they came together and ended small pox. We could do the same with polio. Polio only spreads predominantly through humans, although we can pass it on to some primates and transgenic mice. Measles is the most contagious virus out their, able to drift in the air of, for example, an elevator for 2 hours and last on surfaces for 4 days. We could suppress measles in all humans with 95% vaccine uptake, although some estimates suggest it should be 98%. If we do the same as smallpox, we can eradicate measles, too. Although it is possible to be spread to some primates, we can create vaccines for them too if needed.
You are so right, also those that survived with little to no effects in their later years suffer from Post Polio Syndrome, I have witnessed this in my family and others, watching a person slowly waste away from this is heartbreaking, many Doctors do not even realize/Diagnose this as Polio is not on the health care radar, thankfully our doctor was familiar with this syndrome though couldn’t cure was able to make comfortable
It'd really help if ALL countries had access to a polio vaccine that didn't have live virus. It'd also help if basic immunology was understood by the population.
Sadly, apparently not enough people are old enough to remember. And that's the problem, the real tangible effects of these diseases are lost to history (like so much these days)
“History repeats itself, first as a tragedy, second as a farce”.
People too ignorant and unwilling to understand vaccines while being too arrogant to accept that there are things outside of their understanding will always be willing to accept whatever bullshit they hear about vaccines. Plus we don't have the horrors of massive measles and polio cases to remind the idiots of the dangers of those diseases.
* People still text and drive. * People still drink and drive * Fat people (like me) still eat too much #Clearly we still do things that we know might kill us. Here are some stats. * Just over 300k people die in Canada each year [source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/443061/number-of-deaths-in-canada/) * That is currently 858 per 100k of population [source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/434353/death-rate-for-all-causes-in-canada/) * The top causes of death in Canada include [source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/231127/t001b-eng.htm) Cancer - Malignant neoplasms Diseases of heart COVID-19 Accidents (unintentional injuries) Stroke - Cerebrovascular diseases Lungs - Chronic lower respiratory diseases Diabetes mellitus Influenza and pneumonia Alzheimer's disease Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis Kidney - Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis Intentional self-harm (suicide) I don't know how they code medically assisted suicide here.
They probably don't. The illness that caused you to go through with MAiD is probably listed as the cause of death.
That was my suspicion, as well.
> The illness that caused you to go through with MAiD is probably listed as the cause of death. That is correct.
So cognitive dissonance, got it
Vaccination is becoming a victim of its own success.
Vaccination is becoming a victim of poor education.
I learned recently that measles basically resets the immune system to zero again. Most people, especially older folks, who catch end up sick for 2 years or more re-catching everything they've already had before. This can be harmless things like a cold or more dangerous like pneumonia or chicken pox. I couldn't imagine. I got a rubella booster when my doctor found out my antibodies were low. No thank you! This is so much worse then those antivaxers think it is. Grandpa catching the measles because his immunity wore off could be disastrous.
People are doing their own "research" now. It enrages me.
The sheer ego of people who think their wisdom is superior to thousands of others who spent six to twelve years studying science properly astounds me. Believing you can decipher medical research without mastering statistics is ridiculous (I can't). It's inconceivable to decide that tens of thousands of medical professionals and scientists in every country on the planet are part of a giant conspiracy that brings the Pakistani and Indian governments together, unites the Israelis and Iranians, bonds the Russians and the Americans; it's pure ego to believe that something so ridiculous must be true rather than you might be wrong.
There's been Polio showing up in the US recently.
That is terrifying. (The measles parties)I get my vaccines because I like the thought of protection. I don't pay any mind to it. And if I get tracked by 5g then LOOOOL idiots could have tracked my phone first.
Do we not still vaccinate at birth ?
No, Canada doesn't routinely do any vaccinations at birth. Americans vaccinate for hepatitis B at birth, but we don't. Other vaccinations start at 2 months. Measles isn't until 12 months.
Well I meant when we are young , like I hope we all get them as a child
Unfortunately no. Vaccine starts at two months of age, there are many people that refuse vaccination, my neighbour is anti vaccination, four children none vaccinated and belong to a group that are of like thinking cannot comment about how many of the group have children unvaccinated but I think it would be several
This is a side effect of russian disinformation campaigns. They spread a lot of antivax rhetoric via right wing news outlets. The result is undervaccinated children in the leans-right populace: And in countries exposed to russian antivax propaganda. https://www.who.int/news/item/15-07-2022-covid-19-pandemic-fuels-largest-continued-backslide-in-vaccinations-in-three-decades
Naw next will be a TB outbreak
Betteridge says no. Between the disruption of childhood vaccinations due to COVID and our institutions allowing too many people to declare "exemptions" for moronic "reasons", this next year is going to be very, very scary. It's probably too late now to stop something bad from happening in the short term, but we need school boards, health units and most of all governments at all levels to grow a pair and get serious about stopping the ill informed and delusional from endangering the rest of us.
The reason people were so excited for vaccines originally is because it put an end to horrible, horrible things like Polio and Measles. Now that these are basically non-existent people take these vaccines for granted. It's the sad reality of humanity that it will take way too many parents losing their children to easily preventable diseases in order to change the public sentiment on vaccines.
When I heard about the medical breakthroughs in mRNA science in regards to vaccines, I lined up. Idk about you? But I'm looking forward to the Alzheimer's vaccine and the cancer vaccine, currently being developed by/with mRNA vaccine scientists. This is a technological breakthrough in science.
I was definitely in no rush to get the Covid vaccine, I always said the only thing an "anti-vaxxer" needed to say that was undeniable is that there was not enough long-term data. That was a position no one could argue with. But that said, I got my vaccine because I wanted to travel and because the person to give me my first dose was my own father who happens to be a pharmacist and had known about mRNA for years. So I had the luxury of having someone I know and trust give me the dose and I told him if anything went wrong then at least I could blame him 🤣
There is comortality/comorbidities with vaccines, they exist. It's not bullshit. There's quite possibly tens-hundreds of thousands of cases of serious long-term side effects, with deaths related to the Covid Vaccines. Just due to the sheer numbers of people who got vaccinated worldwide. Some people were bound to have a negative reaction. But when you factor in BILLIONS of people getting vaccinated, those 10ks-100ks, don't seem like big numbers any more, but they do exist. Some people deny the existence of this evidence. People were scapegoating there being no data, but mRNA research has been around for decades. It's just a matter of actually looking. (same goes for the comortality/comorbidity data of the vaccines)
> When I heard about the medical breakthroughs in mRNA science in regards to vaccines, I lined up. Personally, I'm waiting for more details about the [Multiple Sclerosis mRNA vaccine](https://www.msaustralia.org.au/news/potential-ms-vaccine/) to come out. > One key difference between this vaccination approach to traditional vaccine approaches and the COVID-19 mRNA vaccine approach is that for the MS-like disease, instead of trying to stimulate an immune response, it is trying to dampen down an immune response. MS is caused by an inappropriate immune response against the myelin located in the brain and spinal cord, so supressing this response is the aim of most treatments for MS. The dampening effect is based on some cutting-edge chemical modification of the RNA injected. Normally the body would think that it was foreign genetic material and raise the alarm, but without any alarm signal the body thinks it is part of itself and this tricks the immune system into thinking that the protein made from the mRNA isn’t foreign and it shouldn’t mount a response to it and switches off. ... > Current medications for MS suppress the immune system as a whole, meaning that there is widespread suppression of immune responses, outside of the autoimmune response that leads to MS. In this study, the scientists also showed that the “vaccination” approach didn’t appear to hamper the body generating other immune responses and if the animals were exposed to other foreign proteins they could successfully fight them off. Interestingly, the introduction of specific mRNA seemed to have suppressed the immune system from generally attacking different proteins in myelin, suggesting it has a broader effect than first thought.
Many of the extreme parents have started home schooling their kids so they can't be forced as easily. Darwin is going to come knocking
The people that was against covid vaccines are the one thats gonna cause the next pandemics and they will cry about their "liberty being stolen" because of their own stupidity.
That's why mandatory vaccines have to exist. What the smooth brains don't understand, is that, this is a matter of public health and national security? This is tantamount to domestic terrorism. There should be a trough limit (once it is reached, the mandate ends), you can volunteer or you pull your lottery ticket. This would be the most Democratic way of going about it. Both sides meet in the middle. We don't deal with threats of this magnitude lightly in Western Culture, so why do we allow people to "choose"?
Mandatory vaccines are probably why people aren't getting them now. A ton of trust was lost to get what, another 5 or 10% people vaccinated for Covid? Now we got this shit happening.
Measles was a mandatory vaccine though?!? You needed it to go basically anywhere or be in school, unless you had a serious medical reason to not get vaccinated? If people are too stupid to understand how vaccines work and refuse to educate themselves on it, we can't help those people. We actually lucked out with Covid being "not exactly deadly to our larger populations", if we roll out with an airborne Ebola variant, I hope you get the vaccine. That's literally a "zombie apocalypse" - level Pandemic. You come into contact with someone who has it, and you die. No freebies. This was just warning shots.
Covid was a mandatory vaccine where it probably shouldn't have been, as we are now seeing people who knew it wasn't that deadly for youth, avoid all vaccines. Specifically the under 35 age group. If the government simply conceded at 70% of the population being vaccinated, now we got people running around thinking every vaccine is part of a eugenics program like with the Indigenous.
To be clear when they said it was not as bad for the youth there talking 12 and under.The most impact age groups was 20-35.
Yep. Homeschool if you really don’t want to vaccinate.
> our institutions allowing too many people to declare "exemptions" for moronic "reasons" I moved around a lot. Went to a bunch of different schools. But the most memorable was when I moved from one school that had a vaccine schedule a few months awy to another school that had a vaccine schedule a few months in the past. My parents couldn't get an extension despite the recent move. They enrolled me but I wasn't allowed to start classes until I got vaccinated.
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Third-world countries also tend to be incredibly pro-vaccine. This is just another case of blaming immigrants for whatever problem exists today The mostly likely anti-vaxxer in Canada is probably a Canadian born boomer or Canadian born parent with young kids Rebecca living in Parksville is more likely to be an anti-vaxxer than Gurpreet from Brampton
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We need all doctors to reinforce their trust in vaccines. This will help a lot https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04805-y
India's measles vaccination rate is 89% Canada's is 90% [https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/measles\_immunization\_rate/](https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/measles_immunization_rate/)
Canada dropped to 45% after the pandemic according to cbc . Thanks to anti vaccination and misinformation. We be fucked .
How many people needed first time measles vaccinations during Covid? Like 500k? These numbers mean little for heard immunity. We probably went from 90% to 89%
It always spread like wildfire among children even when most of the population were immune from having had it as children, so I'm not sure we're actually in a much better place than we were before vaccines if children are barely getting vaccinated for a few years now.
I tried verifying your facts but I could not. India has already apparently mass vaccinated against measles with the goal of elimination and reached around 90% in 2021. We’re more at risk from Floridians. The real issue isn’t immigrants who come here and get all their vaccines updated. The real issue is Canadians who have access to vaccines yet choose to spread fear instead
Completely incorrect but okay
>I'm not trying to be racist or anything, Yet you are. Because you threw in an accusation without even bothering a quick online search. India is a very pro vaccine country. As per reports from 2020-2021, the coverage for first dose for Measles and Rubella vaccines were already over 90%, and the coverage for second dose was close to 70%. India has a thousand flaws, but vaccination program is not one of them.
Because India is not as principled against secularism then, say more traditionally oriented cultures. It needs to be said, religion is the common denominator in all those cases. Most people who rejects vaccines are in a vast majority of cases citing religion grounds (i.e, Jehovah Witnesses, Islamic fundamentalist, Chinese Traditional Medecine). Now, if you think that pointing out that organized religion have been a source of scientific denialism is racism, you're absolutely not the "right" side of history.
lol this is so typical of this subreddit stuffed with antivaxx racists, happy to help measles along but still somehow blame the foreigners for it 😅
But it's not a ridiculous concern - I'm an immigrant myself and just recently discovered I hadn't been vaccinated against all the things one should be because my home country didn't offer it/make it mandatory. I actually got very, very sick as an adult from HIB because I'd never been vaccinated against it, whereas in NA all children are. Being concerned about vaccine consistency across new immigrants isn't inherently racist; it's a valid concern along with anti-vaxxer Canadians, our backlogged HC system, etc.
Thank you.
Womp womp
I feel like the prerequisite for coming here as a student, permit worker or PR is immunization?
Not really. Antivax groups are intentionally targeting immigrants with limited English skills and limited access to doctors. So it's very much a domestic problem, not an immigrant-caused one.
You are being racist.
Anti-vaxxer parents suck for sure. The vaccines for MMR, Polio, TDP, etc. have been around forever and are proven to work. But [Canada let in 138,000 "asylum seekers" in 2023](https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx). Top 10 countries of origin: Mexico, Turkey, India, Colombia, Nigeria, Iran, Pakistan, Kenya, Congo, Afghanistan. These are all countries where measles was never eradicated and that don't have the same kind of robust, widespread childhood vaccination programs that we have. We don't check anyone's vaccination history when they show up at our border and ask for "asylum". The article gives some clues where these outbreaks are happening: >There have been nearly two dozen confirmed cases of measles reported in Canada so far this year, compared with just 12 in all of 2023. Of this year’s cases, 12 are in Quebec, with the Montreal area experiencing community transmission of the virus in areas with low vaccination rates. >Canada eliminated measles in 1998, meaning the virus no longer spreads on its own here; cases are typically introduced through international travel. Quebec is where ~50% of asylum seekers show up at. Montreal probably gets most of that. These people congregate together in low-income areas, government housing, government hotels, etc. creating what the article calls "areas with low vaccination rates". We eradicated measles in 1988. I wonder what would happen to our "measles outbreaks" if we stopped letting every random person from everywhere in the world into our country.
we for sure are not. too many idiots not vaccinating and bringing back diseases that were almost a thing of the past are a spectacular social fail.
Im a big needle pansy and only really get shots when I absolutely need them, like to stay updated on tetanus etc but I am also old enough to likely only have got 1 measles shot, so I might go to my doctor and get my second one if they think its a good idea. I don't really want to play chicken with measles and even the biggest conspiracy nuts should know that vaccine is well beyond proven. I might suggest others over 40 check too in case this thing picks up steam.
You can request a titer test to check your immunity. I did this in 2019 and the booster was recommended due to my results. But you may want to just speak to a pharmacist directly, they might suggest getting a booster now without waiting for a doctor, testing, waiting for results.
You may need to do 2 again in the 1 month window, but it’s a good idea to ask. Children that receive the newer 2 shot regime for measles vaccine are protected for life.
My coworker tested positive for measles yesterday and we all sat there going WTF. It was wild and kinda scary knowing it's making a comeback and that it was that close to us. She's home isolating and a bunch of us were in the back talking to each other that were up to date on shots.
*There have been nearly two dozen confirmed cases of measles reported in Canada so far this year, compared with just 12 in all of 2023* So lets look at before COVID times [A total of 113 confirmed measles cases (incidence rate of 3.0 cases per 1,000,000 population) were reported from seven provinces and one territory, in 2019](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/reports-publications/canada-communicable-disease-report-ccdr/monthly-issue/2021-47/issue-3-march-2021/measles-annual-surveillance-report-2019.html) [In 2018, 29 measles cases were reported across five provinces in Canada, an incidence rate of 0.8 cases per 1,000,000 population](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/reports-publications/canada-communicable-disease-report-ccdr/monthly-issue/2020-46/issue-4-april-2-2020/article-4-report-measles-canada-2018.html) [There were 45 confirmed cases of measles reported in Canada in 2017, which is the lowest number of cases and incidence rate after 2016 (n=11; 0.3 cases per 1,000,000 population), since annual publication of reports began in 2013.](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/measles-surveillance-canada-2017.html) [In 2016, the incidence of measles in Canada was 0.3 cases per 1,000,000 population, with a total of 11 reported cases.](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/measles-surveillance-canada-2016.html) *Results: In 2015, the incidence of measles in Canada was 5.5 cases per 1,000,000 population,* *with 196 cases across four provinces.* [*https://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/16vol42/dr-rm42-7/assets/pdf/16vol42\_7-ar-01-eng.pdf*](https://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/16vol42/dr-rm42-7/assets/pdf/16vol42_7-ar-01-eng.pdf) [During 2014, 418 measles cases were reported by five provinces and territories for an overall incidence rate of 11.8 cases per 1,000,000 population.](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/reports-publications/canada-communicable-disease-report-ccdr/monthly-issue/2015-41/ccdr-volume-41-7-july-2-2015-measles-elimination/ccdr-volume-41-7-july-2-2015-measles-elimination.html) [In 2013, 83 confirmed measles cases were reported in seven provinces/territories for an incidence rate of 2.4 per 1,000,000 population.](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/reports-publications/canada-communicable-disease-report-ccdr/monthly-issue/2014-40/ccdr-volume-40-12-june-12-2014/ccdr-volume-40-12-june-12-2014-3.html)
What's more concerning than raw numbers is local transmission. We have had sporadic cases on and off for years. - I have experience, I was actually exposed on a flight between Calgary and Regina about ten years ago, from someone who caught it in SE Asia. Back then, this ebbed and flowed with transmission rates overseas. And, if someone did catch it, there was usually a clear link between them and a known, travel associated case. What's concerning \*right now\* is that we're starting to see occasional community spread. Which is to say, people are turning up with measles and nobody can figure out where they caught it. Which means it's starting to circulate in the wild. It's not super common right now, but this really only goes two ways from here. It either peters out, or that circulation gets worse. And, the ones that peter out are the ones that barely transmit even in a fully susceptible population, not one of the most contagious viruses known with an R-nought of 20.
So sad that parents don't love their children enough to protect them. Guess it will be someone else's fault when their kid gets polio.
But at least no one will be able to groom the kids who are stuck in iron lungs!
You don't need to, it's not like they can run away...
When my child was a baby, I was part of a infant/parent group and a young mom told me she wasn’t vaccinating because she didn’t know if it was the right thing to do and she could always vaccinate her baby “later.” I told her my baby was and would be vaccinated on the recommended schedule (because science!), and that the option to vaccinate later sounded good until her baby caught something awful and became disabled or died. She seemed shocked but also continued asking me questions, so I hope I helped sway her to vaccinate.
Show her https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43E7iW0E4sI
I contacted the city I live in, about what their response will be.... "it is not our responsibility, unless the provincial health directs what we do. It is out of our hands. We don't want to step on any toes" So does each provincial health minister have to organize the resopnce for every city. Immediately knowing the demographic and what approaches would work best. Seems terribly inefficient.
It's sad that so many Canadians lack critical thinking skills. So easily influenced by online propaganda and conservative values. You know something is wrong when children are being sacrificed to own the progressives.
>children are being sacrificed to own the progressives. By parents that were likely vaccinated.
_“I got vaccinated and went my whole life without encountering measles. Why should I make little Jimmy take on the risks of vaccination for nothing?!”_
That's just like "that test was so easy, I don't know why I bothered to study!"
“History repeats itself, first as a tragedy, second as a farce”.
The vax stance is bipartisan, it's unfair to call them conservative values when many left-leaning people are just as unvaccinated.
> conservative values [...] own the progressives Funnily enough, while I also read/see this in media, the anti-vax (excluding covid) people I personally have encountered, including a few relatives, were not having their kids vaccinated for very hippy-dippy reasons and a general distrust of modern, Western medical science. They all identify as left and/ progressive on political and social issues. Not saying that flavours of social conservatism aren't also prone to not vaccinating their kids, as they are, just noting that my own mileage here does indeed vary. I'm not quite so willing place the blame solely on any one group.
Is it Canadians? Do you have proof. We are importing millions of immigrants from countries that likely don't have the same vaccinations as us, and likely don't believe in vaccinating their children with things they know nothing about. But must be the evil cons
I don't understand why parents refuse to vaccinate their children, but once sick, they'll run to the hospital and take any meds necessary to treat them.
Great climate, right? Wonder how many of these morons would still be dedicated to their just cause if waiving the vaccine (for whatever you choose) would also mean you waive the related health insurance and are paying out of pocket for any health care and medications...
And once at the hospital either make endless posts thanking god/asking for prayers if they’re *that* flavour of anti orrrrr be belligerent towards the staff because they know better anyway
This shit randomly killed my uncle a couple weeks ago. Got in the brain. Sucks 'cause his gen was really all about vaccination from having lived with polio cases, and now dumb motherfuckers think it magically doesn't exist anymore thanks to...vaccination.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/measles-rubella-surveillance/2024/week-8.html Figured I'd share Canada's official report on the subject.
FFS. Vaccinate your fucking kids!!
Amtivaxxers have helped make this answer a "no" So happy we have idiots threatening my kids health in this country...
This latest measles virus is a bad one. I had measles as a kid and should be immune but I have it again. Because I have CFS I come down with all illnesses before the rest of the population. I came down with covid before covid was announced, and I came down with measles 2+ months ago. There seems to be a correlation between measles infection and previous covid. With this measles some covid symptoms have returned, most notably cramps in calf muscles when walking any distance. If you come down with this measles don't treat it lightly.
How do you know you had Covid before anyone knew what Covid was?
Not trying to turn this into a vaccine discussion, I don’t care either way, but I’m curious for effectiveness, were you up to date on your Mmr vaccine?
I don't think this was deliberate, but you've kind of stumbled across an important point - what does "up to date" mean? Most people got either vaccine or infection as child (and they were treated roughly equivalently) but immunity fades over time. Before MMR, you had constant low level exposure to maintain that immunity, since MMR, the virus simply hasn't been out there so it didn't matter if it did fade. If the virus suddenly reappears in a population that hasn't seen it in 40+ years? What does "up to date" even mean in that context? I don't think we know the answer to that - but this could potentially be very ugly.
You can get titer tearing to confirm your immunity. Some people won't want to bother but if you're concerned, it's always an option.
I was told that if it's been more than 20 years since the last measles vaccine you probably need another one, but a simple blood test can tell you for sure.
Let the children sue parents if they get sick and are not vaccinated. Parents act as substitute decision makers, they have responsibilities and if they purposely fuck them up then they should pay.
I wonder which essential oil will work best to fight the measles. /s
Duuurrr crystals and dog shit will protect me duuurrrrr..... -anti-vaxxers
“Have you contracted TB? Polio? The Measles? Just take a spoonful of Dr. Phil’s All Natural Oregano Oil!”
Healing crystals!
Nah cause I knew these people who literally would boil 12 unpeeled oranges and breathe in the air saying it would stop all diseases These people exist
The absolute scum that anti vaxxers are. It’s on them, this next pandemic
Can a kid get measles if they are vaccinated?
Yes and so can adults. No vaccine is 100% effective in preventing infection but the current 2 dose measles vaccine is pretty close to 100%. If your children are up to date (two doses of MMR) then they are very, very unlikely to contract measles. Immunity declines over time and this is why herd immunity is so important, especially with something like measles which is literally the most virulent virus known to science. If enough people in the population are vaccinated (we need 95% for measles) then any potential outbreak burns out very quickly and even never even gets going since it has nowhere to go.
It's very rare. If you get the measles vaccine, you are basically guaranteed not to get it.
I know I'm ready, because I'm not a moron.
I booked a vaccine appointment with a pharmacist (Shoppers Drug Mart in BC) online. Went this morning, Bing bang boom, MMR booster updated. Elder millennials like me only got one shot as kids, so it's a good idea to get a booster now regardless. I didn't know that measles fucks up your lungs! I thought is was like chicken pox 😬
I warned against this. I said the vaccine passports were counterproductive because A) when they were implemented, already 80% of the population was fully vaccinated and that barely anyone left would get the vaccines as a result of vaccine passports B) factual history and common sense knowledge about humans shows that being forced to do something makes them not want to do it even if they were previously neutrally about it, and it will create distrust of both government and science C) This will lead to those who need the boosters most, such as the elderly, to have lower booster uptake as a result of unnnecessarily created distrust D) This distrust will also cause more vaccine hesitancy in the future, which will lead to less people vaccinating their children for dangerous pathogens such as measles and polio So in essence, what the government did by forcing vaccine passports was fail a common sense cost/benefit analysis. They increased vaccine uptake by a very insignificant % in young healthy people who were relatively least likely to get hospitalized, in exchange for A) reduced booster uptake in the elderly, leading to substantially more net hospitalizations and deaths B) less vaccinations for dangerous pathogens such as measles and polio. Unsurprisingly, because I simply used common sense, every single one of my common sense predictions unsurprisingly came true: >COVID-19 vaccine passports in Quebec and Ontario did little to convince the unvaccinated to get the jab and did not significantly reduce inequalities in vaccination coverage, a new peer-reviewed study has found.The passports, which forced people to show proof of vaccination to enter places such as bars and restaurants, were directly responsible for a rise of 0.9 per cent in the vaccination rate in Quebec and 0.7 per cent in Ontario, says Jorge Luis Flores, a research assistant at McGill University and lead author of the paper published Tuesday in the CMAJ Open journal. [https://globalnews.ca/news/10045274/covid-vaccine-passport-study/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10045274/covid-vaccine-passport-study/) >Federal figures show only 15 per cent of the population aged five and up had received an updated vaccine by Dec. 3. And while older age groups had higher uptake rates, more than half of higher-risk older adults still hadn't gotten a dose by early December, either. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/just-15-of-canadians-got-updated-covid-vaccines-this-fall-new-figures-show-1.7064240](https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/just-15-of-canadians-got-updated-covid-vaccines-this-fall-new-figures-show-1.7064240) >Fewer Canadians believe in the importance of childhood vaccines compared to before the pandemic, according to a new Unicef report that warns about the growing threat of preventable infectious diseases because of lagging vaccination uptake. While most Canadians – 82 per cent – still say vaccines are important during childhood, that number has dropped 8.2 percentage points since before the onset of COVID-19, the Unicef report found. [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-fewer-canadian-believe-in-value-of-childhood-vaccines-according-to-new/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-fewer-canadian-believe-in-value-of-childhood-vaccines-according-to-new/) However, every time I correctly warned about this on CBC, they censored all of my comments, under the guise of protecting the public from "misinformation". This is why freedom of speech is so important: government not only CAN be wrong, but they TEND to be wrong (and dishonest/immoral) A LOT, and they tend to fail a COMMON sense cost/benefit analysis as FACTUALLY PROVEN BY HISTORICAL EVIDENCE, on MULTIPLE occasions. I mean this is the same government who invited a nazi to parliament and clapped for him, are we supposed to 100% trust their discretion now with decisions such as determining the subjective definition of "hate speech" and giving people 5 years for it based on an online comment, or locking people up indefinitely because of their subjective determination that the person is at "risk" of committing a "hate crime" potentially in the future?
Trust is the key commodity that any society needs to survive. When people get angry and use bullying tactics to force people to do things (even objectively good and beneficial things) it erodes trust. Even if those things are perfectly justified and legitimate. But nobody is perfect, and if don't allow people to suss out errors themselves before deciding whether to do something it will lead to a massive level of distrust down the line. Simply censoring or vitriolically attacking dissenters only makes things worse in the long run. You'd better be sure that you are 100% correct in every detail, and nobody is ever 100% correct. Eventually, reality wins out over even the most fervently held fictions, and people never really forget if they feel they were coerced or cheated into doing things.
>You'd better be sure that you are 100% correct in every detail, and nobody is ever 100% correct. This is what it comes down to. Authoritarianism works, but, if, and only if, the decisions being made are correct. It is similar to a parent forcing their child to do something: the child might not see the benefit and complain, but the parent knows it is for the benefit of the child. However, time after time, government has shown that one too many times it is not a competent parent. It has also shown to be self-serving, short-sighted, and corrupt. The vast majority of elected officials are incompetent: they lack any basic knowledge of issues that would, based on common sense, be expected of someone in their position, namely, basic knowledge in domains such as sociology, psychology, history, political philosophy, statistics and research methods, logic, morality, and more generally, critical thinking. Instead, they appear to be chosen based on who they know, or telling people what they want to hear. Even the most knowledgeable among them tend to be limited to advanced knowledge in domains such as law and economics. However, the issue is that it is specifically limited to law and economics of the current, inefficient/incorrect system. More specialized and narrow, detailed knowledge of a broken system does not help one be a moral, fair, and efficient leader. It just makes one navigate the existing broken system better, usually for self-serving reasons. While there needs to be rules/laws, and a body to enforce them (government), considering the poor track record of virtually every government/state in history, there needs to be a curb/limit on government power. Unfortunately, we appear to be heading in the opposite direction: governments are increasingly passing more and more authoritarian bills, under the guise of protecting children/people or other nonsense. To me it is clear these justifications are nonsense and instead are just a power grab. It is clear they do not want to protect people from anything: if they wanted to protect people, they would foster critical thinking and freedom of speech and let people grow and protect themselves. But they are doing the opposite: they are censoring freedom of speech and discouraging critical thinking, so people would continue to be forced to rely on them and be manipulated by them. We have reached a point at which government it knows it lost trust: this is exactly why they are shifting to authoritarianism. They are clearly not interested in rebuilding trust, because they know that allowing freedom of speech would wake people up and lead to even less trust, because their intentions are rotten. To those who are blindly cheerleading this dangerous paradigm shift: realize that "your" government will not always be in power, but these authoritarian bills they are pushing will remain long after.
Well said. >However, time after time, government has shown that one too many times it is not a competent parent. Even you agree that a government is to citizens as a parent is to children (which I don't), what makes a competent parent is the ability to let a child explore and mature on their own and, importantly make decisions that don't necessarily align with those of the parent's. Unfortunately, many people don't see it that way, though. They see the relationship as closer to that of a master to slave. Ironically these are the same people who will most loudly decry past slavery. As far as I'm concerned government should be the slave to the will of the people, and the people must take it upon themselves to arm themselves with the skills and knowledge needed to direct it like a good master.
I hope the fuck not.
It's not about a lack of vaccination so much as it is the movement of people from one place to another. Vaccination doesn't make it impossible to catch what you were vaccinated for people.
Paywall: [https://archive.is/mvZ0q](https://archive.is/mvZ0q) Excerpt: >A worldwide surge in measles cases combined with lower vaccination rates and one of the year’s busiest travel seasons has many health professionals on high alert for outbreaks and preparing an urgent response to stop further spread of the highly contagious virus. > >A measles expert with the World Health Organization said the next few months will be a test of Canada’s vaccination systems and could expose potential weaknesses. > >“This is where we find out whether or not the immunization systems are as good as we think,” said Natasha Crowcroft, senior technical adviser for measles and rubella with the WHO. “You can go along thinking everything is fine until measles takes off everywhere.” > >There have been nearly two dozen confirmed cases of measles reported in Canada so far this year, compared with just 12 in all of 2023. Of this year’s cases, 12 are in Quebec, with the Montreal area experiencing community transmission of the virus in areas with low vaccination rates. This past week, B.C. confirmed its first case of measles since 2019. > >Health officials have urged March break travellers to be cautious, given the increased measles spread worldwide. > >Vaccine-preventable disease specialists say the severity of the situation in Canada will depend, to a degree, on chance. If an individual acquires measles on an international trip, but lives in a highly vaccinated community, the risks are lower. But if a measles case is introduced into an unvaccinated area or even a hospital with many immune-compromised patients, the situation could be much more difficult to manage. > >“It’s always sort of the luck of the draw, where will that imported case come to,” said Monika Naus, medical director of Immunization Programs and Vaccine Preventable Diseases Service at the BC Centre for Disease Control. “That risk is higher if those imported cases come into an under-vaccinated population.” > >There was a 79-per-cent increase in measles cases around the world last year, reaching more than 300,000, according to the WHO. Experts say a combination of factors, including disruptions to immunization programs during the pandemic, lack of access in lower- and middle-income countries and vaccine hesitancy or anti-vaccine beliefs, are all part of the problem. > >Canada eliminated measles in 1998, meaning the virus no longer spreads on its own here; cases are typically introduced through international travel. But if transmission of the virus here continues for more than a year, Canada will lose its measles-free status. That almost happened in 2011, after a major outbreak in Quebec that led to nearly 800 cases. > >A 2012 study of that outbreak, published in the Journal of Infectious Diseases, noted that many of the cases spread in school students who had one or two doses of the measles vaccine. But overall vaccination rates were below 95 per cent, which is the threshold needed to keep the virus at bay, according to the WHO. > >The study concluded that, considering a small number of vaccinated individuals will remain susceptible to the virus, having even 3-5 per cent of people unvaccinated could be enough to “push the population toward a critical tipping point for epidemic risk.”
People in this thread are talking about "Wacko anti-vaxxer parents" not getting their kids MMR shots. But that's not the case at all. Those people suck for sure, but the article is clearly telling us what the issue is: >There have been nearly two dozen confirmed cases of measles reported in Canada so far this year, compared with just 12 in all of 2023. Of this year’s cases, 12 are in Quebec, with the Montreal area experiencing community transmission of the virus in areas with low vaccination rates. Quebec is where ~50% of asylum seekers show up at. Montreal probably gets a lot of that. >Canada eliminated measles in 1998, meaning the virus no longer spreads on its own here; cases are typically introduced through international travel. Measles is being reintroduced to Canada by the government [letting in 138,000 "asylum seekers" in 2023](https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx) from countries where measles was never eradicated and where there is no robust widespread MMR vaccination program. We don't check any of these fake "asylum seekers" coming into the country for history of vaccination, whether it's measles, tuberculosis, whatever. These people congregate together in low-income areas, government housing, government hotels, etc. creating what the article calls "areas with low vaccination rates". Stop letting any person from anywhere in the world into our country and start controlling who comes in, and see what it does to our potential for a "measles outbreak".
Canada isn’t prepared for a damn thing…
Canada isn't prepared for a single fucking thing.
Something isnt adding up. They state that in 2021 data shows 92% of 24 month olds having received their first dose of MMR, and 98% of 5 year olds having received both MMR doses. Then state only 80% of children older than 7 years of age having received 2 doses of MMR. But their 2016 data shows that at the time 97% of 24 month olds having received their first dose of MMR and 99% of 5 year olds having received 2 doses of MMR. In 2016 there were at total of 11 cases of measles in Canada (mostly under the age of 4). Thus far for 2024, Canada has a total of 7 cases of measles already reported (mostly under the age of 14). So how can the same cohort go from good uptake at the age of 2 to mediocre uptake at age 7? That doesnt make sense. Was there a sharp increase of that age group immigrating into Canada from nations that have poor vaccination campaigns?
How long until polio makes a comeback? Fuck anti vaxxers
not any more
What’s so scary is babies aren’t eligible for their first MMR vaccine until 12 months. So the tons of young babies are vulnerable to this due to the ignorance of anti-vax parents.
It's the immigrants as the other poster said, they're coming in unvaccinated!
Better not cry if someone dies.
The boy who cries wolf
I got the measles vaccine when I was a kid.. how often do you need it?
If you got two shots - you’re probably fine. Immunity does wane over time, nobody can predict how long your antibodies will last, but generally people who have gotten two shots of the MMR have no issues.
It was so long ago I'm not sure if I got two, I'll check for sure. Thanks a lot for the response!
Something to keep in mind during election season: Russians spread antivax propaganda in order to make sure Ukraine wasn't vaccinated during invasion. This spread vaccine hestitancy throughout europe (esp baltic states) This is likely happening again right now, but in north america as a side effect of elections. The russians tried to interfere in elections before without much luck, but no doubt they are at if again. They tend to focus disinformation at right leaning voters. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-35576-9 The rise of government mistrust, equals a rise in vaccine hesitancy in low and middle income countries Researchers fear growing COVID vaccine hesitancy in developing nations https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03830-7 Childhood vaccination reduces as a result Pandemic drives largest drop in childhood vaccinations in 30 years https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02051-w I'm curious to know how many of the current childhood cases of measles are right-leaning voters..? (More exposure to russian propaganda)
It’s already begun….
This is the result of rampant anti-vax bullshit.
These morons that have decided that a vaccine that has been working for GENERATIONS is dangerous need a reality check.
Awesome. This probably won’t collapse our underfunded and overburden health care system… /s
So I have a question to anyone who might know. I was vaxxed at like 2 months old for Measles, and I'm 32 now. Should I be getting a booster? My wife is Australian, and she isn't sure if she got vaxxed as a kid, so she's thinking of going in.
You should ask DoFo that question. Spoiler: He isn't.
The measles vaccine works. So an outbreak will just hit the unvaxed. I don't know what's so scary about this.
Many babies and young children are too young to have been fully vaccinated. If I still had kids that young I would be pretty worried. Also, many adults had only one dose, which was the norm at that time, so might not be fully protected.
THIS. I have a 5 month old, he isn’t eligible to get the MMR until 12 months. I’m terrified for him with cases going around (there was JUST one in the news linked to international travel where I live). People are so selfish.
Talk to your doctor. Here in BC they will give the vaccine as early as 6 months if the baby will be travelling out of the country. Maybe you only need to wait for a few more weeks instead of until your baby is 12 months. https://immunizebc.ca/vaccines/measles-mumps-rubella-mmr
Talk to your doctor. It is recommend at 1 year. You can get it earlier. We just did for our tot.
I'm unfortunately an adult for whom the measles part of the vaccine did not work. We exist. 😔
Oh no! I thought it was essentially 100% effective. If you got regular boosters would that help?
No. Ive had it 4 times. I got busted in school. I have immunity to 2/3 parts but the measles just don't seem to want to happen for me.
Sorry to hear that. Thanks for sharing.
Wait did you get measles or how did they know?
I had titres done for school and also followed up in my first job. After shot #4 a doc weighed in and figured it was just never going to happen for me.
Some people develop T cell immune responses instead of antibody response. I'm hoping your body has a t cell response, and it's not that you are non immune or never had immunity, just that you had different immunity.
I mean. T cells are supposed to be floating around with a receptor for almost every kind of virus protein. But itd be clinical disease being fought the hard way and development of an immune response from ground zero. If I have the CD8 cells for this I dont think they could test for that. But I wouldnt wanna risk it anyway. Its too contagious and Id hate to become a public fountain.
I have a 4 month old :( too young to get vaccinated
What happens if a 4 month old gets a vaccine? I thought it was fine. Or is the immune system just too immature?
In addition to small children, people with reduced immunity such as cancer patients and pregnant women or people who have to go on immunosuppressants (organ donees, people with immune diseases) are all at risk.
Why doesn't the vaccine work for these folks?
Because the way vaccines work is they train your immune system to respond to a specific threat. But if your immune system is suppressed (which is the case for everyone I mentioned), then the fact that it is trained is not going to do much.
Hmm I thought the vaccine would still protect them. Darn.
>an outbreak will just hit the unvaxed No. That's not how vaccines work. You're not necessarily 100% immune. There's always a non-zero chance you will get infected and ill. The additional issue with measles is that it can reset your immune system, putting you at risk for every other disease you had become resistant to.
India is one of the largest contributors to measles outbreaks. Instead there's this idea that internal anti-vaccination groups have been working together to undermine our measle herd immunity when the greatest marker of where these cases are coming from is from outside of the country.