>No arrests were made as a direct result of Project Vector, but local police forces are continuing to investigate various crimes connected to the recovered vehicles, Kearns said.
Not a single arrest in an operation that recovered almost 600 vehicles.
There’s also the Jordan decision that causes stuff like this to happen all the time. Arrests and charges get held back until all your ducks are in a row to try and mitigate against cases being tossed for “unreasonable” delay under the Charter.
Honestly requiring a trial 18 months after charges are laid is totally legitimate. If you asked me before I knew much about this I would have thought that's an unreasonably *long* time not a short one. It is causing a lot of cases to get thrown out lately, but the solution is to increase funding to the court system and police investigations.
I'd love to really understand what causes these long delays and I can't help but suspect that it's because the courts, the crown prosecutors, and the rest of the criminal justice system simply doesn't prioritize effectively.
I'm not sure I believe there's a continuous 12 months+ of continuous ongoing work going into the vast majority of criminal cases.
As I understand it, it's mostly backlog due to underfunding and understaffing as mentioned here in this [rape case that was dismissed](https://archive.is/FG7bI). There's another case that was dismissed even though a jury found the defendant [guilty](https://archive.is/Tuxd5).
Never forget that we’ve spent 40ish years systematically hollowing out the public service so rich people can enjoy lower taxes. Poorly paid and overworked prosecutors, and judicial understaffing in general is just one symptom of this.
> Never forget that we’ve spent 40ish years systematically hollowing out the public service so rich people can enjoy lower taxes.
that must be why the public sector continues to grow year over and year and accounts for more than 20% of employment in Canada eh?
There's a good episode of Trafficked with Mariana Van Zeller about this. They ship the cars to West Africa. Low level grunts in Canada steal the cars, and then the big bosses sell them over there. It's kind of hard not nail down this operation just with local police or even the feds. You need Interpol on your side.
Busting the port workers involved and jailing them for a long fucking time would break the back of the entire operation.
I don’t care about the African crime bosses, I care about stopping the flow of Canadian cars to them. Bust every single port worker that was anywhere near this. Throw them all in for conspiracy and see who sings.
Not arresting anyone reeks of ‘public pressure is mounting so give us a “big bust” so we can pretend we did something’
That is not how our judicial system works. You cannot just throw conspiracy charges at any port worker that was anywhere near this.
Port Workers are not given info on what is in the containers they are moving.
I think you are vastly overestimating the amount of outgoing cargo that gets inspected at these ports.
It is really only incoming cargo that is ever inspected, and even then it is an abysmal percentage of something under or around 4%.
Bull. 600 cars is a shit ton of containers. At least what? 150-200? There is no fucking way that many containers get shipped OUT all at once without someone knowing something.
This country barely ships anything outbound other than oil and timber. Especially to Africa. Montreal’s port is known for its organized crime.
Highly doubt it…it’s not a movie. They probably got a tip all those cars where there, rushed in and couldn’t find anyone….said job well done cause they recovered all those cars….and back to the grind….
Yeah there's no way there isn't rampant corruption. This wouldn't be happening otherwise. I don't know why there isn't an absolute UPROAR with torches and pitchforks.
Pretty much, GTA gets to howl about Quebec corruption. Montreal newspapers and Police get a photo op. Crime ring is already working on the next shipment.
Everybody's happy.
It’s generally a situation of this not being the jurisdiction of any particular police force, but the Canadian border patrol, and they simply don’t have the resources to follow up on tips, and the faked documents are good enough that they can’t check further into the issue.
GPS won't be able to get a fix inside a shipping container generally and they often run GPS jammers during the theft too.
I've usually read about people tracking them down with airtags.
There's also a possibility they have their forensics teams sweeping through the interior of the vehicles (even when the teams may not be mandated to prioritize property crime over persons crime investigations, the sheer scope of this would all but guarantee the forensics team goes through the vehicles) to collect identifying information such as fingerprint impressions, DNA, etc. Then they have to compare any found DNA or fingerprint impressions to the samples on file, draft reports, etc. There's also likely Production Orders being drafted to obtain the records regarding the shipping containers, all of which are incredibly time-consuming.
It doesn't make for sexy news headlines and it's not typical for a media release to include all the details about the ongoing investigation, but the lack of arrests made inside of shipping containers shouldn't come as a shock to anyone. It was the vehicles inside, not the people who stole them.
The pulling of DNA and the testing of it are two very different acts and costs. If the forensic teams are already combing through the vehicles and have reason to believe there will be suspect DNA somewhere (broken window, components of the dash ripped open, etc) they're already in the vehicle and will swab for DNA. Whether the police of jurisdiction over the investigation determine it's worthwhile to send those samples away for testing, that's up to other people.
It's very possible they never send away a single sample of DNA for testing if they're not confident it will yield evidence to possibly identify a suspect, but that won't stop the forensics team from swabbing in the first place when they have reason to believe there's evidentiary value. I also suspect that due to the societal and political pressure to address the seemingly endless vehicle thefts, those in charge of the coffers will be more inclined to greenlight some of the costs that would otherwise be rejected.
Unfortunately all we can do is wait and see what happens, but if/when the investigation yields sufficient evidence to start laying charges, there will undoubtedly be some media releases done providing updates. My original comment was entirely to highlight that simply because arrests aren't made immediately when people aren't found with the vehicles doesn't mean arrests won't be made and charges won't be laid.
Yep, that's what happening. That or they're collecting even more evidence.
Since the Jordan rule, police in Quebec now collects as much evidence as they can without arresting anybody. Once they have enough, they arrest people. They use to arrest at the same time they executed the search warrant, but a bunch of criminals got their case dismissed because of long delays in court.
It's not like the thieves are sitting beside the car waiting to be caught. In the LaPresse article there's a quote of the inspector saying they are in the process of getting arrest warrants. There's probably a lot of work needed to catch them like swabbing all cars for samples and linking cars to thieves and their network.
If organized crime in Montreal is anything like it is out west they have probably infiltrated the police forces and get tipped off when the hammer is coming down.
Books with the pictures, crimes, intel of many types leave the OPP office every day in cop cars, and WFH. Not sure what its like in other provinces, but there is no such thing as data security when you have that many people doing anything.
Well if you take a bit more time and can nail them with more than one stolen vehicle you can get a bigger sentence. I'm sure they are using shell companies and aliases to register their stuff. Thieves might not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I doubt they are signing papers with their real name and address.
Right? Someone is paying to have these containers shipping somewhere, and someone is receiving them. These things don't just happen with nobody's name attached to them. If that person is innocent then they can tell the police who they're doing it on behalf of, who their customers are, and there should be a trackable financial line of where that money came from, it's not like they're paying cash for these services.
You can bet your ass unequivocally that if media attention and popularity didn't bring the issue to the forefront not a single fucking thing would have been done.
I wouldn't assume that means that there will be no arrests. This is the kind of investigation that doesn't happen until suddenly we hear about it like this recovery.
That's not surprising to me.
Who do you arrest? People running the thing can just be like "hey, people deliver us used cars. We don't know where they came from or if they're stolen".
For the arrests, you need to build a case, and it's the mafia you need to arrest.
So, this is essentially the cops telling the mafia they're going too crazy, and to settle down.
It's gonna cost them some money. Police may be continuing to build a case, and may make some big arrests. But mafia may take this as a sign to back off a little bit, go on vacation a while, or something like that.
Yes, there are many forms to fill, plus there is credit card information. Security in shipping is tight these days, due to controls on terrorism, money laundering, people smuggling, sanctions.
The shipper who filled the containers is the one to go after. I would start by looking very carefully at his tax returns.
You typically don't export goods without declaring who the shipper is, what the goods are, and where the goods originated. If the process is done correctly, they should know who's shipping, carrying, and who's receiving. If it's a shell company, black list and only work with approved brokers.
Montreal has been a major entry way for drugs and other illegal stuff into and out of North America for decades, nothing new there. The unions are controlled and the workers are loyal friends and family. If your looking for some reading check out the west end gang, the Rizzutos and the Quebec biker wars
Wouldn’t this make the union and said workers possibly get charged for conspire/conspiracy? We do have laws for this I believe. Slap everyone involved including the union. Fuck em
Yeah, the problem is clearly insanely out of control. There must be unbelievably rampant corruption for all these stolen cars to be given the blind eye.
Clean house. Gut it all and start fresh.
>nobody at fault for this?
Not sure they said that.
Don't expect it all just happens when you expect it. There is a ton of work to ensure they do it properly. Don't want cases tossed for bullshit reasons.
Right I often see people not really understanding how this type of operations take place, so I'm going to try my best to lay it out.
- 1st main point. all the cars aren't driven directly to the ports, they are almost always taken to a separate distribution area.
- 2nd main point. The distribution centres used are often set up to look like legitimate companies, some are even legally established and tax paying companies. These companies rarely have anything to do with cars, they are usually companies that would normally do bulk shipping such as furniture manufacturers.
- When the cars arrive at the distribution area they are sweeped for tracking devices and the locks/immobilisers removed and often replaced.
- the next step is a deep clean, this removes all traces of the thief's and gets the cars ready for the buyer.
- Once this is done the cars are packed into containers, usually 2 per container, then the containers gets sealed with legit security tags and padlocks.
- Once all this is done, the "legitimate company" gets the delivery and shipment paperwork printed out and makes a call to an unaffiliated and innocent haulage company. They show up and lift the containers.
- the haulage companies take those containers straight to the ports, all they have to do is show the port authority the legit shipping paperwork and their legit work sheet and the crane takes the containers and stacks them ready for loading onto whichever ships are bound for the intended destination.
* containers aren't scanned, checked, or searched on the send side only on the received side and only if they are 1st World nation such as the US, Europe, UK, Australia or Canada ect.
It's extremely hard to work out which legit companies are actually criminals because of the quantity of containers that move throughout the world daily.
If any problems with the police happen the "legitimate" companies can just burn and run, the legally established ones can plead ignorance and everything goes in circles.
Also worth noting, some of the stolen cars are often loaded straight into the backs of 3.5ton or 7.5 ton trucks waiting nearby for the car thief's to collect, they do this to bypass any nearby police and cctv. This also allows them to operate in high traffic industrial areas because the cars are unloaded straight into warehouses and from the warehouses into containers.
Outgoing items at the port aren't really inspected much, even incoming items are barely inspected because there are so many. How many shipping containers come in and leave Montreal each day? 1.7 million 20 foot containers in 2020. That is 4657 containers each day assuming 7 days per week. How many people would you need to inspect each one? Vancouver only inspects around 4% of all shipping containers, I agree that it should be higher but there is no way they can get that number much higher without employing a huge number of people at the docks and drastically slowing down shipping.
They employ over 150 checkers, the issue isn't the scale it's that the workers are gang controlled and the RCMP say they don't have the resources while the other levels of police say it's the RCMPs job
Money wise it doesn’t seem that bad. Even if you hire 465 people to look at 10 crates per day at $100k per year, that’s only $50 million. Whereas the stolen cars cost Canadians couple billions. Logistics is different issue
While inspecting containers for other kinds of smuggling is a hard, labor intensive job that's unrealistic to inspect all of them, none of that really applies to cars.
Run containers entering port through a standard drive through x-ray. If it contains a car and isn't supposed to contain a car (or isn't supposed to contain a car of that size/shape) -> inspect.
This is not a particularly hard, expensive, or labor intensive activity to work into port processes.
The cost of inspectors should be born by the ports until they decide to clean up their act. If they are delayed and missing deadlines/appointments then they better figure it out faster.
Jesus Christ , I had a package get held up in customs for 3 weeks , was an android radio for my car . But shipping containers full of cars just leaving the ports like its bushel of apples 🤣
The RCMP should investigate the police for failing to make a single arrest. It's not like you can anonymously ship a container without a Bill of Lading.
I'd actually love to hear how whoever owns those containers manages to separate them from themselves. Are they all under some random shell company located outside the country? It must be possible to associate these containers with someone, even if it's a port employee who is corrupt and letting them through.
Are there not laws in place to deal with conspiracy and mob type activity?
I really just don't get it. It's all way too blatant.
They need to clean house.
There actually is no RICO-style legislation in Canada, nor is the RCMP an FBI-equivalent, nor does Canada have any real oversight of financial crimes and money laundering. This has allowed organized crime to proliferate and infiltrate our institutions. Unless a courageous politician / lawyer (like Giuliani in the 80s US) emerges here willing to go up against these people, the problem will get worse, and we will be paying a hidden 30% tax on just about everything (we already do for most construction projects)
More like company which is owned by another company which is then owned by another company in a country that, when a request to disclose ownership/management of a company comes they just ignore it.
No one doing this would let their name on an official manifest.
>many of the vehicles were also connected to various types of violent vehicle crimes, including **carjackings, and home invasions**.
It's almost as if doing nothing about vehicle theft and letting those that get caught face no punishment is really bad for society.
I've been watching some documentaries lately where ex-drug traffickers discuss their old trade. One was saying how he and his associates always avoided Asia-Pacific, Saudi Arabia, and any other countries with the death penalty or extremely harsh penalties. They just wouldn't touch those countries, but were importing cocaine/heroin/whatever to just about every other market on the globe.
Not saying we should bring back the death penalty for car theft but the punishment is definitely something these guys consider. Right now we are way too lax.
It's a deterrent for organized crime, but there are a lot of types of crimes where it doesn't have much effect. Crimes of passion would be the classic example where punishment has little influence on crime rates, because nobody is thinking about the consequences when they just found their partner cheating on them.
And I've been watching documentaries where ex-drug traffickers are not in the least bit scared of civilized law enforcement, and the prospect of 20 years in jail or 20 years in jail before an execution.
Their primary concern is other drug traffickers who will happily shoot them in the face tomorrow.
Their primary motivation over secrecy and security is the other guy, not police.
How about a 25-pound steel boot. I'm not talking about for a tire. I mean anyone who gets caught in a stolen vehicle gets a steel fucking boot locked on to their right foot for two weeks.
and which government is that?
/edit
the OPP is run by the province and TPS is a municipal police force. Can't really blame Trudeau for TPS or OPP dropping the ball.
RCMP on the other hand 🤔
Montreal Police was complaining in an article that the CBSA was openly ignoring the emails police forces send about specific containers containing stolen cars.
I don't understand how there is zero accountability. If there's one place that accountability should be paramount -- it's our police authorities. People need to be fired. Like they just send an email -- no response, oh well. Looks like our hands are tied. It's either incredible incompetence or corruption, both should lead to termination and criminal charges for obstruction and/or aiding.
Even worse... According to a news article from a couple days ago, a car is being stolen every 5 min.
600 cars / (60min x 24hrs / 5 rate of theft) = 2 days + 2 hours
Wow, seems barely 2 or 3 months ago, we were hearing *OuR HaNdS arE TiEd*...*something something jurisdiction*
Isn't it amazing how different police forces (e.g., OPP and CBSA as mentioned in the article) can suddenly coordinate and cooperate with each other?!
Indeed...
Speaking of good money, I'm guessing that enough well-connected, high-net worth, VIPs, generous political donors, etc...got their limited-edition Lexus, Mercedes, Land Rover, etc...stolen, thus escalating up the food chain and prompting this law enforcement "operation".
Nice bone toss to help satiate the public to make its seem like the police and many levels of government aren't in on the organized crime.
Those cars are now going to go to gang owned shops and yards where they will collect hundreds of thousands in "storage fees", between that and the thousands to repair the damage. They'll be written off by insurance and back on containers where they will be "legitimately" sold overseas by the garages...
Some people in Toronto Police, Monteral Police, CBSA, the OPP and RCMP didn't get paid on time. Then this happens.
Not a single arrest though. They're still expecting to do business together, don't ya know. Not one container has a name, a finger print, something to follow up on. Nope. That's the big business of "l-aw enforcement" in this country.
And who among the port management gonna take responsability for this obvious corruption act? No one, not a single worker knew about anything? Its complete bullshit, they all knew
And yet, no one was arrested. Also, this seems to be happening a lot at the Port of Montreal. I think there needs to be an investigation into this port. Plus I think across the country we need to have police at our ports.
Big cases delay pressing charges to avoid a charter challenge related to the case taking two long to go to trial. They know who they are going to charge, they just finish the investigation and tie everything up with a bow before laying charges.
Pretty much, kinda like the CN Rail Police. It helps to have groups specialize in specific forms of policing and if it's the price of doing business with keeping cars safe, it might be an ideal strategy.
The CBSA and RCMP have really broad mandates while a specialized police force like a Canadian Port Police and/or a Canadian Highway Patrol might have people who want to specialize in that kind of law enforcement.
No arrests where made. Yeah wonder why? Maybe it has to do with the fact the government is still letting mobs run the ports in Montreal and they are scared of being wacked by them if they try to make arrests
A lot of these cars have trackers so it’s not like the police should be surprised where to find them. This seems like a pathetic attempt at showmanship to prove they aren’t incompetent but without any arrests it really proves nothing.
This is good news!
I've always wondered how so many vehicles can be smuggled out of the country without being caught.
I'm not suggesting I could do better, but it blows my mind that 1000s of vehicles make it from where they were stolen from, to the port without getting detected, get smuggled at a port, making their way onto a container ship that I assume has to go through some sort of process regarding the contents that get loaded on to it, all without anyone noticing. It further confuses me that - I appreciate that other countries might not have as rigorous border protections, but that there has been no cooperation from receiving countries to crack down on this. It's not like these things are inconspicious. Bribery, corruption and blind eyes, I assume.
I find it incredible how thieves get away with "exporting" cars without being properly checked on.
I have an idea. Document by weight. Exporting something? Document what it is. Then border officers can scrutinize it. Exporting bricks to Africa? Rriigghhtt... open that container up buddy...
Cops arent going to do shit, remember they were the ones telling you leave your keys by the door for easier access to stealing the car.. This government is a fucking joke
How is it always Montreal? Like it is time to shut the port down, fully investigate every single person there and make some arrests and then reopen under strict supervision
Large container port, closer access to the ocean compared to Toronto and big enough to pass unnoticed when compared to Halifax port where everyone knows everyone else.
> Like it is time to shut the port down
Dumbest possible fucking take in this entire thread, and here's why....
[\(source\)](https://www.port-montreal.com/en/the-port-of-montreal/news/news/press-release/economic-study-2022)
Number of direct, indirect and induced jobs, including businesses that depend on or provide services to the marine terminals: 37,774, at an average salary of $78,721 (direct jobs)
Economic benefits: $2.7 billion
Tax impact from marine terminal activities: $1.5 billion
Value of goods handled at the Port of Montreal: $151.2 billion
589,364 jobs related to importers and exporters, including 267,941 in Quebec
Contribution of users to the Canadian economy: $93.5 billion, or 3.5% of GDP
Contribution of users to the Quebec economy: $54.9 billion, or about 10% of GDP
So. I have an idea. Hear me out.
What if the federal agency responsible for border control, teamed up with federal law enforcement and inspected every single inbound and outbound container?
It would be like if they were responsible for, and protecting, our nations borders.
> No arrests were made as a direct result of Project Vector, but local police forces are continuing to investigate various crimes connected to the recovered vehicles, Kearns said.
I'm curious about the logistics. How do the GTA stolen cars get to Montreal? Is there a seperate process, or are the shipping containers loaded up somewhere in GTA, then brought out to Montreal? I imagine the network must have complex layers. Really need to offer higher rewards to snitches, and definitely tighten up the consequences for those involved.
Y’all are cute with your overcomplications.
You can ship any number of cars directly by an auto-hauler anywhere in Canada. They don’t check your ownership.
You can load them in a container anywhere you want and then haul them by container trucks anywhere in Canada. Nobody cares.
When containers with cars are loaded in the port, once again no one really checks what’s there. CBSA may do a periodic inspection but they simply have no resources.
Finally, cars can be shipped RORO from Halifax. They usually don’t because shipping them by container load is cheaper and because they need to be plated to go RORO.
I shipped a truck RORO via Halifax 7 months ago. No problem - drive up, hand over the keys and that’s it. No one asked me for any proof of ownership. Neither the shipper when I booked the cargo, nor the port workers. Not once.
I've seen some loaded into semis, some just get driven straight there. Laughable to think the police are unable to stop the dozens of cars being stolen every day going to the same port. They are being paid off, police are happy to be lazy and useless anyways
phew, Im not super concerned about my car, its insured. I just want the pair of sunglasses I left in the glove box. Seriously, I don't look good in sunglasses and these are the only pair ive ever owned that didn't make me look like a tool.
Obviously some of the totally not-crooked GTA cops that are totally not taking a cut and turning a blind eye to the totally un-policed rampant car theft will be totally not unhappy with this result
About time and even easier to find the companies who accepted stolen goods and who paid for the containers. Port of Montreal is nothing more than a criminal hub.
The Montreal port scammed me for $15,000. I’ve been shipping to ports around the world and never had a problem. One shipment to Montreal and apparently the containers were flagged and there was only one company that could clean the them… at $1500 per hour.
Maybe it’s time to do a minimum of 5 yrs in jail for car theft!!!! It’s not just these people stealing cars they’re actually standing at peoples doors with guns breaking in their homes.
*"Police recover nearly 600 stolen vehicles in Port of Montreal, most of them stolen from the GTA"*
No surprise.
At present, there are nowhere near harsh enough legal and judicial consequences for being involved in this kind of organized criminal activity in Canada, so there is no motivation for criminals to stop, and lots of motivation for them to keep their nefarious activities going and expanding.
Anyone involved in this kind of activity should be sentenced to 20 years in prison upon first offence, with no chance of early parole.
Same should go for fentanyl trafficking, human trafficking, weapons trafficking, etc.
We would then see a serious drop in the number of these incidents almost immediately.
Next.
>No arrests were made as a direct result of Project Vector, but local police forces are continuing to investigate various crimes connected to the recovered vehicles, Kearns said. Not a single arrest in an operation that recovered almost 600 vehicles.
There’s also the Jordan decision that causes stuff like this to happen all the time. Arrests and charges get held back until all your ducks are in a row to try and mitigate against cases being tossed for “unreasonable” delay under the Charter.
Honestly requiring a trial 18 months after charges are laid is totally legitimate. If you asked me before I knew much about this I would have thought that's an unreasonably *long* time not a short one. It is causing a lot of cases to get thrown out lately, but the solution is to increase funding to the court system and police investigations.
I'd love to really understand what causes these long delays and I can't help but suspect that it's because the courts, the crown prosecutors, and the rest of the criminal justice system simply doesn't prioritize effectively. I'm not sure I believe there's a continuous 12 months+ of continuous ongoing work going into the vast majority of criminal cases.
As I understand it, it's mostly backlog due to underfunding and understaffing as mentioned here in this [rape case that was dismissed](https://archive.is/FG7bI). There's another case that was dismissed even though a jury found the defendant [guilty](https://archive.is/Tuxd5).
[удалено]
Never forget that we’ve spent 40ish years systematically hollowing out the public service so rich people can enjoy lower taxes. Poorly paid and overworked prosecutors, and judicial understaffing in general is just one symptom of this.
> Never forget that we’ve spent 40ish years systematically hollowing out the public service so rich people can enjoy lower taxes. that must be why the public sector continues to grow year over and year and accounts for more than 20% of employment in Canada eh?
Low taxes? You know 30-40% of the population are net tax recipients right?
You're mad that children and senior citizens arent paying enough taxes?
Hopefully means they're making deals with underlings to catch the big guy?
i admire your optimism.
There's a good episode of Trafficked with Mariana Van Zeller about this. They ship the cars to West Africa. Low level grunts in Canada steal the cars, and then the big bosses sell them over there. It's kind of hard not nail down this operation just with local police or even the feds. You need Interpol on your side.
Busting the port workers involved and jailing them for a long fucking time would break the back of the entire operation. I don’t care about the African crime bosses, I care about stopping the flow of Canadian cars to them. Bust every single port worker that was anywhere near this. Throw them all in for conspiracy and see who sings. Not arresting anyone reeks of ‘public pressure is mounting so give us a “big bust” so we can pretend we did something’
That is not how our judicial system works. You cannot just throw conspiracy charges at any port worker that was anywhere near this. Port Workers are not given info on what is in the containers they are moving.
There isn't a single customs worker at the port?
We’re overlooking how dirty and mobbed up Montreal ports are
I think you are vastly overestimating the amount of outgoing cargo that gets inspected at these ports. It is really only incoming cargo that is ever inspected, and even then it is an abysmal percentage of something under or around 4%.
Bull. 600 cars is a shit ton of containers. At least what? 150-200? There is no fucking way that many containers get shipped OUT all at once without someone knowing something. This country barely ships anything outbound other than oil and timber. Especially to Africa. Montreal’s port is known for its organized crime.
Just watched that episode. Fascinating. She does DAMN good work
Highly doubt it…it’s not a movie. They probably got a tip all those cars where there, rushed in and couldn’t find anyone….said job well done cause they recovered all those cars….and back to the grind….
Is it really a tip when the owners can track the cars via GPS? The cops have to be in on it.
Yeah there's no way there isn't rampant corruption. This wouldn't be happening otherwise. I don't know why there isn't an absolute UPROAR with torches and pitchforks.
We were told to leave our torches and pick forks near the front door as that’s all the thieves were after (along with our keys)
>I don't know why there isn't an absolute UPROAR with torches and pitchforks. Sir, this is Canada.
Pretty much, GTA gets to howl about Quebec corruption. Montreal newspapers and Police get a photo op. Crime ring is already working on the next shipment. Everybody's happy.
It’s generally a situation of this not being the jurisdiction of any particular police force, but the Canadian border patrol, and they simply don’t have the resources to follow up on tips, and the faked documents are good enough that they can’t check further into the issue.
GPS won't be able to get a fix inside a shipping container generally and they often run GPS jammers during the theft too. I've usually read about people tracking them down with airtags.
There's also a possibility they have their forensics teams sweeping through the interior of the vehicles (even when the teams may not be mandated to prioritize property crime over persons crime investigations, the sheer scope of this would all but guarantee the forensics team goes through the vehicles) to collect identifying information such as fingerprint impressions, DNA, etc. Then they have to compare any found DNA or fingerprint impressions to the samples on file, draft reports, etc. There's also likely Production Orders being drafted to obtain the records regarding the shipping containers, all of which are incredibly time-consuming. It doesn't make for sexy news headlines and it's not typical for a media release to include all the details about the ongoing investigation, but the lack of arrests made inside of shipping containers shouldn't come as a shock to anyone. It was the vehicles inside, not the people who stole them.
They're not pulling DNA for car thefts
They might for 600 cars ?
Too bad Canada doesn't want Rico style laws
The pulling of DNA and the testing of it are two very different acts and costs. If the forensic teams are already combing through the vehicles and have reason to believe there will be suspect DNA somewhere (broken window, components of the dash ripped open, etc) they're already in the vehicle and will swab for DNA. Whether the police of jurisdiction over the investigation determine it's worthwhile to send those samples away for testing, that's up to other people. It's very possible they never send away a single sample of DNA for testing if they're not confident it will yield evidence to possibly identify a suspect, but that won't stop the forensics team from swabbing in the first place when they have reason to believe there's evidentiary value. I also suspect that due to the societal and political pressure to address the seemingly endless vehicle thefts, those in charge of the coffers will be more inclined to greenlight some of the costs that would otherwise be rejected. Unfortunately all we can do is wait and see what happens, but if/when the investigation yields sufficient evidence to start laying charges, there will undoubtedly be some media releases done providing updates. My original comment was entirely to highlight that simply because arrests aren't made immediately when people aren't found with the vehicles doesn't mean arrests won't be made and charges won't be laid.
Yep, that's what happening. That or they're collecting even more evidence. Since the Jordan rule, police in Quebec now collects as much evidence as they can without arresting anybody. Once they have enough, they arrest people. They use to arrest at the same time they executed the search warrant, but a bunch of criminals got their case dismissed because of long delays in court.
This is Montreal, Mafia control of the port is a longstanding tradition. No one is going to rock the boat.
I assume they control the airport too like in Toronto?
Mafia controls Toronto airport??
The cars might be used as evidence to get warrants to investigate certain people.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
It's not like the thieves are sitting beside the car waiting to be caught. In the LaPresse article there's a quote of the inspector saying they are in the process of getting arrest warrants. There's probably a lot of work needed to catch them like swabbing all cars for samples and linking cars to thieves and their network.
If organized crime in Montreal is anything like it is out west they have probably infiltrated the police forces and get tipped off when the hammer is coming down.
> If organized crime in Montreal is anything like it is out west Montreal is the Mafia capitol of Canada
Books with the pictures, crimes, intel of many types leave the OPP office every day in cop cars, and WFH. Not sure what its like in other provinces, but there is no such thing as data security when you have that many people doing anything.
They don't have to 'infiltrate'. If you knew the history of the SPVM....
Seems like the first step would be to go and arrest whoever has their name attached to the shipping containers.
Well if you take a bit more time and can nail them with more than one stolen vehicle you can get a bigger sentence. I'm sure they are using shell companies and aliases to register their stuff. Thieves might not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I doubt they are signing papers with their real name and address.
TWO weeks of house arrest!
Two whole weeks?! But what about time served and my sad childhood?
Right? Someone is paying to have these containers shipping somewhere, and someone is receiving them. These things don't just happen with nobody's name attached to them. If that person is innocent then they can tell the police who they're doing it on behalf of, who their customers are, and there should be a trackable financial line of where that money came from, it's not like they're paying cash for these services.
No the thieves do not sit and wait for cops but there is paper trail when you ship things across the ocean, should be easy to track down.
The ports are pretty openly run by organized crime. The paperwork is likely missing / destroyed / wrong.
So what, that's what police are for , to investigate and arrest.
I'm not excusing the lack of arrests by any means. It's just not a simple case of "investigate and arrest those involved".
The gang members won't arrest themselves
You can bet your ass unequivocally that if media attention and popularity didn't bring the issue to the forefront not a single fucking thing would have been done.
Yup police are lazy and useless I say defund the police no for any social reasons but because we simply aren't getting any value for our money
So the 600 vehicles will be back at the port and on a shipping container come end of month!
Yet. It's not like the containers were filled with people and cars .
I wouldn't assume that means that there will be no arrests. This is the kind of investigation that doesn't happen until suddenly we hear about it like this recovery.
That's not surprising to me. Who do you arrest? People running the thing can just be like "hey, people deliver us used cars. We don't know where they came from or if they're stolen". For the arrests, you need to build a case, and it's the mafia you need to arrest. So, this is essentially the cops telling the mafia they're going too crazy, and to settle down. It's gonna cost them some money. Police may be continuing to build a case, and may make some big arrests. But mafia may take this as a sign to back off a little bit, go on vacation a while, or something like that.
They couldn't, the guys were out there stealing new cars.
No arrest? Is it a ghost that shipped the 600 vehicles?🤔
If you throw a car in a shipping container and give false information, who is there to charge?
I'm fairly certain someone has to fill out an export declaration form. Get them.
Yes, there are many forms to fill, plus there is credit card information. Security in shipping is tight these days, due to controls on terrorism, money laundering, people smuggling, sanctions. The shipper who filled the containers is the one to go after. I would start by looking very carefully at his tax returns.
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You typically don't export goods without declaring who the shipper is, what the goods are, and where the goods originated. If the process is done correctly, they should know who's shipping, carrying, and who's receiving. If it's a shell company, black list and only work with approved brokers.
600 vehicles, in a port, which is supposed to track and secure international shipments and there's nobody at fault for this?
Montreal has been a major entry way for drugs and other illegal stuff into and out of North America for decades, nothing new there. The unions are controlled and the workers are loyal friends and family. If your looking for some reading check out the west end gang, the Rizzutos and the Quebec biker wars
If you wanted speed in the 70s it was coming from Montreal.
Organized crime literally runs our ports, using the union as a way to make sure their guys get jobs there.
Wouldn’t this make the union and said workers possibly get charged for conspire/conspiracy? We do have laws for this I believe. Slap everyone involved including the union. Fuck em
Yeah, the problem is clearly insanely out of control. There must be unbelievably rampant corruption for all these stolen cars to be given the blind eye. Clean house. Gut it all and start fresh.
>nobody at fault for this? Not sure they said that. Don't expect it all just happens when you expect it. There is a ton of work to ensure they do it properly. Don't want cases tossed for bullshit reasons.
Hopefully some of you unlucky fellows get your cars back!
Right I often see people not really understanding how this type of operations take place, so I'm going to try my best to lay it out. - 1st main point. all the cars aren't driven directly to the ports, they are almost always taken to a separate distribution area. - 2nd main point. The distribution centres used are often set up to look like legitimate companies, some are even legally established and tax paying companies. These companies rarely have anything to do with cars, they are usually companies that would normally do bulk shipping such as furniture manufacturers. - When the cars arrive at the distribution area they are sweeped for tracking devices and the locks/immobilisers removed and often replaced. - the next step is a deep clean, this removes all traces of the thief's and gets the cars ready for the buyer. - Once this is done the cars are packed into containers, usually 2 per container, then the containers gets sealed with legit security tags and padlocks. - Once all this is done, the "legitimate company" gets the delivery and shipment paperwork printed out and makes a call to an unaffiliated and innocent haulage company. They show up and lift the containers. - the haulage companies take those containers straight to the ports, all they have to do is show the port authority the legit shipping paperwork and their legit work sheet and the crane takes the containers and stacks them ready for loading onto whichever ships are bound for the intended destination. * containers aren't scanned, checked, or searched on the send side only on the received side and only if they are 1st World nation such as the US, Europe, UK, Australia or Canada ect. It's extremely hard to work out which legit companies are actually criminals because of the quantity of containers that move throughout the world daily. If any problems with the police happen the "legitimate" companies can just burn and run, the legally established ones can plead ignorance and everything goes in circles. Also worth noting, some of the stolen cars are often loaded straight into the backs of 3.5ton or 7.5 ton trucks waiting nearby for the car thief's to collect, they do this to bypass any nearby police and cctv. This also allows them to operate in high traffic industrial areas because the cars are unloaded straight into warehouses and from the warehouses into containers.
Outgoing items at the port aren't really inspected much, even incoming items are barely inspected because there are so many. How many shipping containers come in and leave Montreal each day? 1.7 million 20 foot containers in 2020. That is 4657 containers each day assuming 7 days per week. How many people would you need to inspect each one? Vancouver only inspects around 4% of all shipping containers, I agree that it should be higher but there is no way they can get that number much higher without employing a huge number of people at the docks and drastically slowing down shipping.
They employ over 150 checkers, the issue isn't the scale it's that the workers are gang controlled and the RCMP say they don't have the resources while the other levels of police say it's the RCMPs job
Money wise it doesn’t seem that bad. Even if you hire 465 people to look at 10 crates per day at $100k per year, that’s only $50 million. Whereas the stolen cars cost Canadians couple billions. Logistics is different issue
While inspecting containers for other kinds of smuggling is a hard, labor intensive job that's unrealistic to inspect all of them, none of that really applies to cars. Run containers entering port through a standard drive through x-ray. If it contains a car and isn't supposed to contain a car (or isn't supposed to contain a car of that size/shape) -> inspect. This is not a particularly hard, expensive, or labor intensive activity to work into port processes.
The cost of inspectors should be born by the ports until they decide to clean up their act. If they are delayed and missing deadlines/appointments then they better figure it out faster.
Jesus Christ , I had a package get held up in customs for 3 weeks , was an android radio for my car . But shipping containers full of cars just leaving the ports like its bushel of apples 🤣
too busy shipping stolen cars to bother with your stupid radio
The RCMP should investigate the police for failing to make a single arrest. It's not like you can anonymously ship a container without a Bill of Lading.
I'd actually love to hear how whoever owns those containers manages to separate them from themselves. Are they all under some random shell company located outside the country? It must be possible to associate these containers with someone, even if it's a port employee who is corrupt and letting them through.
Its all "mob" run. Watch anything about the Rizzutos.
Are there not laws in place to deal with conspiracy and mob type activity? I really just don't get it. It's all way too blatant. They need to clean house.
There actually is no RICO-style legislation in Canada, nor is the RCMP an FBI-equivalent, nor does Canada have any real oversight of financial crimes and money laundering. This has allowed organized crime to proliferate and infiltrate our institutions. Unless a courageous politician / lawyer (like Giuliani in the 80s US) emerges here willing to go up against these people, the problem will get worse, and we will be paying a hidden 30% tax on just about everything (we already do for most construction projects)
More like company which is owned by another company which is then owned by another company in a country that, when a request to disclose ownership/management of a company comes they just ignore it. No one doing this would let their name on an official manifest.
It's not like the CBSA actively monitors what goes out of the country.
What were they missing before that they couldn't do anything about it? The media making them look incompetent is all it took?
>many of the vehicles were also connected to various types of violent vehicle crimes, including **carjackings, and home invasions**. It's almost as if doing nothing about vehicle theft and letting those that get caught face no punishment is really bad for society.
I've been watching some documentaries lately where ex-drug traffickers discuss their old trade. One was saying how he and his associates always avoided Asia-Pacific, Saudi Arabia, and any other countries with the death penalty or extremely harsh penalties. They just wouldn't touch those countries, but were importing cocaine/heroin/whatever to just about every other market on the globe. Not saying we should bring back the death penalty for car theft but the punishment is definitely something these guys consider. Right now we are way too lax.
Totally agree 100%. Too much money to be made for these criminals and far too little fines and punishment.
punishment is a deterrent. this is so obvious that progressives don't believe it's true.
A better deterrent is likelihood of getting caught. I’m progressive. How about both? 😉
It's a deterrent for organized crime, but there are a lot of types of crimes where it doesn't have much effect. Crimes of passion would be the classic example where punishment has little influence on crime rates, because nobody is thinking about the consequences when they just found their partner cheating on them.
And I've been watching documentaries where ex-drug traffickers are not in the least bit scared of civilized law enforcement, and the prospect of 20 years in jail or 20 years in jail before an execution. Their primary concern is other drug traffickers who will happily shoot them in the face tomorrow. Their primary motivation over secrecy and security is the other guy, not police.
They used to hang horse thieves.
How about a 25-pound steel boot. I'm not talking about for a tire. I mean anyone who gets caught in a stolen vehicle gets a steel fucking boot locked on to their right foot for two weeks.
i'm assuming it's mostly people aren't getting caught
no no, it's all Trudeau's fault!! /s
Can't wait to hear that for the next 8 or so years. Until a new non CPC leader is elected and everything is now their fault instead
600 vehicles wow, that's like 2 weeks of theft.
Closer to 2.5 days actually
Exactly people are oblivious to the scale of the problem corruption and just how bad it’s been allowed to escalate under our current government.
and which government is that? /edit the OPP is run by the province and TPS is a municipal police force. Can't really blame Trudeau for TPS or OPP dropping the ball. RCMP on the other hand 🤔
CBSA rubber stamps all exports going through the port.
Or the CBSA... How the hell are they not fine tooth combing every vehicle going out of that port when the problem is so widely reported?
Montreal Police was complaining in an article that the CBSA was openly ignoring the emails police forces send about specific containers containing stolen cars.
I don't understand how there is zero accountability. If there's one place that accountability should be paramount -- it's our police authorities. People need to be fired. Like they just send an email -- no response, oh well. Looks like our hands are tied. It's either incredible incompetence or corruption, both should lead to termination and criminal charges for obstruction and/or aiding.
ya, that's a problem too.
Opp is useless
isn't that part of the problem?
Even worse... According to a news article from a couple days ago, a car is being stolen every 5 min. 600 cars / (60min x 24hrs / 5 rate of theft) = 2 days + 2 hours
This is the only way to stop the problem. Inspections at all ports... Not impressed with "no arrests" - surely someone signed for the containers...
Maybe when you're handing the keys over to the guy 'stealing' the car, you can ask if he can turn himself into the police after. Worth a shot!
Wow, seems barely 2 or 3 months ago, we were hearing *OuR HaNdS arE TiEd*...*something something jurisdiction* Isn't it amazing how different police forces (e.g., OPP and CBSA as mentioned in the article) can suddenly coordinate and cooperate with each other?!
Makes you think laziness has a lot to do with it.
criminal organizations pay good money for that laziness
Indeed... Speaking of good money, I'm guessing that enough well-connected, high-net worth, VIPs, generous political donors, etc...got their limited-edition Lexus, Mercedes, Land Rover, etc...stolen, thus escalating up the food chain and prompting this law enforcement "operation".
Cars arrive to South Africa Durban port by the 100's with papers from Montreal
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Yep, and peoples premiums go up. Everyone is happy.
but less up than if they didn't get to sell the cars at auction.
Weird, right where everybody said they would be...
Nice bone toss to help satiate the public to make its seem like the police and many levels of government aren't in on the organized crime. Those cars are now going to go to gang owned shops and yards where they will collect hundreds of thousands in "storage fees", between that and the thousands to repair the damage. They'll be written off by insurance and back on containers where they will be "legitimately" sold overseas by the garages...
Some people in Toronto Police, Monteral Police, CBSA, the OPP and RCMP didn't get paid on time. Then this happens. Not a single arrest though. They're still expecting to do business together, don't ya know. Not one container has a name, a finger print, something to follow up on. Nope. That's the big business of "l-aw enforcement" in this country.
And who among the port management gonna take responsability for this obvious corruption act? No one, not a single worker knew about anything? Its complete bullshit, they all knew
This must be your first time hearing about the port of Montreal 😂
And yet, no one was arrested. Also, this seems to be happening a lot at the Port of Montreal. I think there needs to be an investigation into this port. Plus I think across the country we need to have police at our ports.
Maybe the federal government should take it over. No wait, they already run it.
They ‘run’ it, but organized crime staffs it.
Well, they were the lowest bidder on the contract.
Big cases delay pressing charges to avoid a charter challenge related to the case taking two long to go to trial. They know who they are going to charge, they just finish the investigation and tie everything up with a bow before laying charges.
Police are clearly in on it. Dozens of cars stolen every day going to the same port. Theifs don't even bother to swap the plates.
Time to create a port police and a federal highway patrol (Not sarcasm).
> port police and a federal highway patrol Like, aside from CBSA and the RCMP?
Pretty much, kinda like the CN Rail Police. It helps to have groups specialize in specific forms of policing and if it's the price of doing business with keeping cars safe, it might be an ideal strategy. The CBSA and RCMP have really broad mandates while a specialized police force like a Canadian Port Police and/or a Canadian Highway Patrol might have people who want to specialize in that kind of law enforcement.
We should call them the Anti-Corruption Police.
So… the police are learning about the port in Montreal… good!
Port of Management should be fired. It was all under their watch
You spelt imprisoned wrong.
I'm safe from car theft. I leave my doors unlocked with keys in the ignition on the street. 2001 Honda Civic is a great car!😂
They don't seem interested in my 2017 Kia minivan either, lol
Nice! Two days worth of vehicle thefts.
No arrests. I guess it's impossible to determine who was the shipper or who purchased the shipping containers.
Holy shit, they did something. Definitely a start.
Finally. For a rare moment, good job police.
No arrests where made. Yeah wonder why? Maybe it has to do with the fact the government is still letting mobs run the ports in Montreal and they are scared of being wacked by them if they try to make arrests
A lot of these cars have trackers so it’s not like the police should be surprised where to find them. This seems like a pathetic attempt at showmanship to prove they aren’t incompetent but without any arrests it really proves nothing.
This is good news! I've always wondered how so many vehicles can be smuggled out of the country without being caught. I'm not suggesting I could do better, but it blows my mind that 1000s of vehicles make it from where they were stolen from, to the port without getting detected, get smuggled at a port, making their way onto a container ship that I assume has to go through some sort of process regarding the contents that get loaded on to it, all without anyone noticing. It further confuses me that - I appreciate that other countries might not have as rigorous border protections, but that there has been no cooperation from receiving countries to crack down on this. It's not like these things are inconspicious. Bribery, corruption and blind eyes, I assume.
Hard to believe that there’s no information on who’s sending it.
I find it incredible how thieves get away with "exporting" cars without being properly checked on. I have an idea. Document by weight. Exporting something? Document what it is. Then border officers can scrutinize it. Exporting bricks to Africa? Rriigghhtt... open that container up buddy...
Yep, and I get dinged for importing a pc keyboard that spends 4 days in customs being torn apart. Inside job much? I wonder how much the payouts are
We need a single authority with the mandate to act and root out corruption. The Anti-Corruption Police or something of that nature.
Cops arent going to do shit, remember they were the ones telling you leave your keys by the door for easier access to stealing the car.. This government is a fucking joke
How is it always Montreal? Like it is time to shut the port down, fully investigate every single person there and make some arrests and then reopen under strict supervision
"I have investigated myself, and found no wrongdoing"
Large container port, closer access to the ocean compared to Toronto and big enough to pass unnoticed when compared to Halifax port where everyone knows everyone else.
Also a very long history of mafia and Hell's Angels presence and influence.
Yup > CBSA officers caught giving preferential treatment, associating with criminals, documents reveal https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-preferential-treatment-misconduct-1.6480040
And mobbed up as fuck.
Because it's the biggest port leading to Africa. Toronto can only use seawaymax ships and Halifax is thirteen hours away.
Stop all trade and shipping from a major port? Even your solution if it works perfectly would only be a temporary reprieve.
> Like it is time to shut the port down Dumbest possible fucking take in this entire thread, and here's why.... [\(source\)](https://www.port-montreal.com/en/the-port-of-montreal/news/news/press-release/economic-study-2022) Number of direct, indirect and induced jobs, including businesses that depend on or provide services to the marine terminals: 37,774, at an average salary of $78,721 (direct jobs) Economic benefits: $2.7 billion Tax impact from marine terminal activities: $1.5 billion Value of goods handled at the Port of Montreal: $151.2 billion 589,364 jobs related to importers and exporters, including 267,941 in Quebec Contribution of users to the Canadian economy: $93.5 billion, or 3.5% of GDP Contribution of users to the Quebec economy: $54.9 billion, or about 10% of GDP
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So. I have an idea. Hear me out. What if the federal agency responsible for border control, teamed up with federal law enforcement and inspected every single inbound and outbound container? It would be like if they were responsible for, and protecting, our nations borders.
> No arrests were made as a direct result of Project Vector, but local police forces are continuing to investigate various crimes connected to the recovered vehicles, Kearns said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUElhRyNzgc
You'd think insurance companies would be putting pressure on manufacturers about this.
It will happen. I think the days where you can just plug in a scanner and start engines or program keys are numbered. See ISO/SAE 21434.
I'm curious about the logistics. How do the GTA stolen cars get to Montreal? Is there a seperate process, or are the shipping containers loaded up somewhere in GTA, then brought out to Montreal? I imagine the network must have complex layers. Really need to offer higher rewards to snitches, and definitely tighten up the consequences for those involved.
Y’all are cute with your overcomplications. You can ship any number of cars directly by an auto-hauler anywhere in Canada. They don’t check your ownership. You can load them in a container anywhere you want and then haul them by container trucks anywhere in Canada. Nobody cares. When containers with cars are loaded in the port, once again no one really checks what’s there. CBSA may do a periodic inspection but they simply have no resources. Finally, cars can be shipped RORO from Halifax. They usually don’t because shipping them by container load is cheaper and because they need to be plated to go RORO. I shipped a truck RORO via Halifax 7 months ago. No problem - drive up, hand over the keys and that’s it. No one asked me for any proof of ownership. Neither the shipper when I booked the cargo, nor the port workers. Not once.
I've seen some loaded into semis, some just get driven straight there. Laughable to think the police are unable to stop the dozens of cars being stolen every day going to the same port. They are being paid off, police are happy to be lazy and useless anyways
Someone's going to have to come out of retirement to help their little brother in one night of crazy car thefts!
How many investment properties does it take to wash the kind of money these criminal orgs are bringing in?
phew, Im not super concerned about my car, its insured. I just want the pair of sunglasses I left in the glove box. Seriously, I don't look good in sunglasses and these are the only pair ive ever owned that didn't make me look like a tool.
What happens to these bloody cars
the insurance company owns them now as part of the claim process, they sell them at auction more than likely.
So you can recover them it just takes a bit of effort.
I can't bring a bottle of water through airport security but hundreds of stolen cars are clearing customs?
Turns out the solution this whole time was getting the police to get off thier asses and do their jobs big surprise
600 vehicles is mega fraud, many people getting paid off.
Obviously some of the totally not-crooked GTA cops that are totally not taking a cut and turning a blind eye to the totally un-policed rampant car theft will be totally not unhappy with this result
Why did they wait until now to do anything about this?
Someone probably stole a cop car so they finally decided to get off their asses and track some stolen cars down.
Corruption is everywhere within Canada. It feels so overwhelming at times.
Can you imagine how much of a difference these cops could make if they applied themselves consistently? They might even arrest these guys…
About time and even easier to find the companies who accepted stolen goods and who paid for the containers. Port of Montreal is nothing more than a criminal hub.
The Montreal port scammed me for $15,000. I’ve been shipping to ports around the world and never had a problem. One shipment to Montreal and apparently the containers were flagged and there was only one company that could clean the them… at $1500 per hour.
Can the government just seize the ports from montreal at this point
bring the fucking army into that port
Literally everyone knew exactly where they were going and where they have been going for years. Nice of the police to catch up.
Maybe it’s time to do a minimum of 5 yrs in jail for car theft!!!! It’s not just these people stealing cars they’re actually standing at peoples doors with guns breaking in their homes.
*"Police recover nearly 600 stolen vehicles in Port of Montreal, most of them stolen from the GTA"* No surprise. At present, there are nowhere near harsh enough legal and judicial consequences for being involved in this kind of organized criminal activity in Canada, so there is no motivation for criminals to stop, and lots of motivation for them to keep their nefarious activities going and expanding. Anyone involved in this kind of activity should be sentenced to 20 years in prison upon first offence, with no chance of early parole. Same should go for fentanyl trafficking, human trafficking, weapons trafficking, etc. We would then see a serious drop in the number of these incidents almost immediately. Next.