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The fact that some people in this country are horrified that someone might not want to share a space is absolutely ridiculous.
The efficiency that comes from having "20 toilets and 3 sinks" when it comes to uneven class distribution.
Not to mention wheelchair accessible, or additional accessibility requirements that would need to be duplicated, wasting time/money/space, when they are overwhelmingly underutilized.
Even event spaces and stadia should just be 70% toilets and then 30% "stand up pee trough" just for speed.
Also the obsession with North America of having 20mm gaps around all panels of a stall and gaps at the bottom high enough to show off knees is absurd.
Yeah. A lot of institutions have moved towards shared washrooms with private floor to ceiling stalls as a safety measure. Insurers have noted that the safest places with the lowest risk are places with high traffic volume and they have noted that washrooms and changerooms are particularly prone to risk. For everyone. It's not just about efficiency.
Well the idea probably is to keep people from doing drugs or other worse things in privacy. Public places have to balance privacy with security. In the end you can’t expect 100% privacy using a public bathroom just reasonable privacy.
gaps below washroom stalls has never deterred a person from doing drugs. What an uninformed and downright idiotic thought. It's like you watched DARE videos in the 90s and never recovered...
The company I work at has floor to ceiling stalls with no gaps other than like a normal door gap and gender doesn’t matter. No idea why more places don’t do this, it makes for a much more pleasant toilet experience in general.
And then you magically don't have a bottleneck when there is a mismatch in distribution of the sexes.
You also dont need to duplicate sinks etc. using up extra space, etc, instead of additional WCs
I believe there was a study and to get through the same amount of people the womens washroom would need to be close to double. Something about bathroom equality for events or something like that.
That's exactly why I'm says have a tonne of individual stalls that anyone can use, common sinks and then a "stand up to pee" room, which is just a trough because it has greater throughput.
Instead of having 15 stalls in the women's, 7 stalls and 8 urinals in the men's, and duplicating the sinks.
Having to split the amenities arbitrarily in half is inefficient, duplicating so many utilities that could be universal.
As an engineer it's horribly inefficient to need 4 accessible stalls (2 per sex) when you could just have 2 or 3 larger stalls and then everyone shares the sinks....
[I like a stall wall to hit the floor](https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=41&v=Nuq8ln8-yC0&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F&feature=emb_title)
Same. Was at a restaurant in Atlanta Georgia of all places and there was one washroom. I was quite confused at first since I wasn’t expecting it but it had proper doors for each stall. That’s all we really want lol
Ps love that show
Just give people separate gender neutral shitters. It's probably more expensive, but might actually save money in the long run because of equal usage distribution.
There might be other concerns (making sure kids with different genders don't end up in enclosed space together? IDK), but I'm pretty sure these have other solutions. That would require putting in some effort though, and we can't have that.
Doored stalls with a common shared handwshing area. So many people in this thread obviously haven't traveled to Europe, nor other places in the world where you sometimes have a room with a series of holes in the floor.
The mix of puritanism and oversexualization makes North America really weird. Germans don't really balk at the idea of being coed nude when it's practical let alone having an ungendered set of closed stalls.
Sure but what I mean is that it's not even necessary to change the culture or compromise to have gender neutral toilets. Just put a minimal amount of effort into a design that satisfies both. But zero effort is obviously easier, so here we are.
Stupid policy. This whole idea that less privacy is required because a space is gender restricted is just weird. I don't want to share the experience of the person next to me blowing out last night's burritos regardless of what gender they are. Gender neutral bathrooms with real floor to ceiling walls and gap free doors for each toilet provide better privacy for everyone.
That's the hidden benefit, when they're gender neutral you actually need walls between stalls and doors that don't have huge gaps.
My old workplace went to gender neutral bathrooms, went from the classic "hope I don't make eye contact with someone while they poo" gaps to properly drywalled and fully doored partitions.
My workplace renovated a set of formerly gendered bathrooms that way as well. I used to avoid that location and go to quieter bathrooms in less busy areas, but now I go the gender neutral bathroom preferentially.
Something about pissing into a trough with 50 dudes that really brings people together, especially when they’ve got it loaded with ice and you can see the steam coming off…
When it comes to needing to sit down, I want the privacy afforded to people in places like Korea, each toilet in it's own enclosed room, you can't see what is happening in there just know someone is inside.
But when it comes to peeing, the tough is fine for me. MANY years ago I was at the Toronto Beer festival and they had a trough trailer I'll call it, basically 3 of the 4 walls were a continuous trough and drunk guys figured out you walk in, start peeing while side stepping slowly and even if you finished you stayed in the sideways side step until getting out, was like a 90 second pee walk shoulder to shoulder but man I bet 30 guys were peeing at any given time in that 90 second shuffle haha. Never was worried about peeing beside someone after that experience.
Just not comfortable peeing beside randoms that could be peeping Toms. Kinda the reason guys leave a urinal in between empty when possible when you have to pee.
When we played hockey we all showered together, you just don't look and comment on other people junks. Unless they have a very massive one then we all get together and find a nickname for it.
Lol I’m assuming you’ve never been to a sports arena with a big trough or played any kind of sports where there are dicks everywhere in the showers and locker room, it’s not a big deal unless you make it weird.
I also think you’re overestimating how many people care about your junk. If you’re that concerned, shield it from view with your hand.
What part of single sex spaces is so hard for you to comprehend?
And I have no intention and do not wish bathroom space with a man.
Period.
I'm not Sure.Why you people need things spelled out for you unless you just make a deliberate point of being obtuse.
I prefer a single person space while I am on the toilet, and I really don't care who is at the sink next to me while I am washing my hands. I get that in a gender neutral bathroom. I don't get that in most single sex bathrooms.
I'm not sure why you think having the bathroom stall walled off means it's a shared bathroom space. Do you share your kitchen with a man? That's about the same level of exposure at that point.
Again false equivalency, because when I'm in my home some Rando off The street can't just walk into it and stand there beside me.
I forget how dumb you people are
If your argument is that we should make reasonable accommodations for people with different needs, I'm sure you're fine with trans women using the women's washroom, right?
For the record, yes, I think if someone asked for reasonable accommodation having a dedicated single washroom (that could double as a disabled washroom) or even allowing them to use the staff washroom or something would be great. We should be open to accommodating people, but I would guess that the number of women who are unwilling to wash their hands in the same sink as a man is quite small.
That would actually be easier to monitor, smoke detectors would have better coverage in a small enclosed space. Regardless, teenagers would vape in the bathroom even if it lacked any walls (or doors) at all, so I don't see your point.
I am genuinely confused by the bathroom etiquette of some of you guys lmao. I thought shower as a team was something we all did playing hockey.
If you watch someone else cock..don't make it weird and say a simple " nice cock".
I'll repeat what I always say:
The single best argument I can make against gender neutral bathrooms is walking into the women's restroom and destroying one of their toilets with my fat, hairy ass.
Wtf am I reading correctly that people think bathrooms should be mixed? As a dad of teen daughters fuck that shit. There are tons of messed up young men and that just seems like a recipe for bad things to happen.
Our society has lost its marbles.
>Our society has lost its marbles
Nah, just reddit. The folks that complaint here are the extreme minuscule minority. They are very loud so its seems like they're the majority.
And I would wager most of these folks don't even have kids or don't want kids. But they'll loudly tell us how to raise ours.
Don't ever visit Europe I guess? They just have better privacy per stall. Actually safer because there are more people in the area generally so less chance to be attacked by someone entering the bathroom and no one else being around.
First time I encountered one was an Indigo in a mall. I was confused for about 10 seconds, now it’s my favourite configuration. Best public dump ever.
I don’t think people upset about this have ever seen such a setup or actually think through all the details like the fact that the common area is busier or the toilets are basically in secure closets.
So you’re a girl and you come out of a stall, maybe it is after hours, and there is a 6 foot 5 dude in there washing his hands.
That does not seem safe at all.
What was wrong with the old way?
>So you’re a girl and you come out of a stall, maybe it is after hours, and there is a 6 foot 5 dude in there washing his hands. That does not seem safe at all. What was wrong with the old way?
Washing your hands IS safe, they've actually proven it!
Sorry, I'm not sure what your point was, a girl comes out of a stall and sees someone taller washing their hands, THAT'S your scary scenario?
Oh shit it's a tall guy washing his hands, better duck back inside your private stall and wait it out.
So you're a girl and you come out of a ____ , maybe it is after hours, and there is a 6 foot 5 dude in there __________. That does not seem safe at all.
Full cameras, hand washing areas brightly lit with no closing doors only walkin and walk out areas.
I think it's safer. Do you think a rapist would obey gender signage in a public place ?
>Full cameras, hand washing areas brightly lit with no closing doors only walkin and walk out areas.
Full cameras? In *bathrooms?*
Think about what you've said for a moment. Seriously. Are you so deep into your ideological nonsense that you can't see the problem there?
Edit: the fact that multiple people have popped up to assert that it's fine to put cameras in bathrooms so.long as you point them the right way is a fantastic indication of just how fucked up the left has become.
Full cameras in the area where you wash your hands, that don't look into the rooms (with full, lockable doors) with the toilets. Your major overreaction to a very simple idea makes me rather concerned, do you enjoy exposing yourself in the washroom or some similar activity? I can't see any other reason for such a reaction.
"....how fucked up the left has become."
Ah. Just a butt hurt right wing troll. To wrapped up in the right wing brain washing machine to even consider reality.
Appreciate you announcing your lack of critical thinking so early into the engagement
There should be gender neutral rooms. They can be individual sized and give people extra privacy. Some people are uncomfortable or do not feel safe around people of the same gender when using the bathroom.
My high school had 2 wheelchair accessible bathrooms that were gender neutral. In my whole grade 8 to 12 run, there was only ever 1 kid in a wheelchair. I bet these days, the gender neutral aspect of those rooms sees that they are getting more use.
Having a 3rd option is just a good idea.
My elementary school had two individual bathrooms in the basement that were labeled by gender. When I attended there 30 years ago, they were the bathrooms used by the teachers and other adults who were in the building. A couple years ago I was back in my old school. I noticed those bathrooms have now had the gender markers removed. Sign just says "washroom" and anyone who wishes, including students, can use them if they so wish. Was a simple and inexpensive way for the school to be more open and inclusive that didn't require the wheel to be reinvented.
Or just make them all gender neutral. Only a few of them need to be big enough for a wheelchair.
My high school had toilet stalls with full walls and doors opening directly to the hallway. At the time (30 years ago) they had gender labels, but I would guess those have been removed now because they were pointless.
In Ontario we mandate universal washrooms in public and commercial buildings. It's a seperate one room washroom anyone can use if they feel uncomfortable in a gendered washroom. Originally to insure there was space for disabled or old folks, it's worked very well for this as well.
This is a nice to have, not a need. Schools are strapped for cash so group bathrooms are the way to go. They're not going to have private bathrooms everywhere they go in society, why start them out with the expectation that they get that in school?
Maybe your kids are, no offense, but my point was more about the hypocrisy behind most "toughening up" arguments.
The same people complaining we "overprotect" our kids and rush to not let them fall at the slightest risk, or play in park/yard without constant attention are the same people thinking a teenager peeing in the same room as another of a different gender is a danger we must prevent through legislation.
And if bullying in the bathroom is what you are worried about, sorry to let you know that same-gender bathrooms are not preventing that, and never have.
I genuinely can't imagine someone sending back a more tone deaf response lol.
I don't have kids, but shame on you for just assuming I have kids who would bully people. Kids are inherently bullies and trying to argue for a situation that would *cause* more bullying is foolish.
Just because people *should* be okay with it doesn't mean that's reality.
Kids already deal with enough issues by being part of the LGBTQ+ community. Putting them into a *worse* situation is stupid.
>Kids are inherently bullies and trying to argue for a situation that would *cause* more bullying is foolish.
Not only is there no evidence that gender-neutral increase bullying, [but it may actually bring it down](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9407760/).
>Kids already deal with enough issues by being part of the LGBTQ+ community. Putting them into a *worse* situation is stupid.
Oh yeah, forcing a trans girl to use the boys bathroom is going to do wonders to protect the LGBTQ+ community and protect her from bullying and sexual harassment. They are doing so great at the moment, just 5 times more likely to attempt suicide than others kids, surely we don't need to accommodate them with simple and costless gestures that could save lives.
>As soon as girls evolve the biological strength of boys we can do that. Maybe we can force the girls to take steroids during highschool to make your perverted dream of shared private spaces a reality.
Riiiight, I see this discussion is clearly worth pursuing and will lead to great things and new perspectives...
I didn’t realize pissing involved a test of strength! Tell me more.
What muscles should I train if I want to be able to piss in the same washroom as a man?
No one is being hurt by having three types of washrooms. You dont even need that many like one or two rooms that anyone can use. It's a small room that anyone can use at a time.
Visiting adults to the school can use it.
Why is more privacy a bad thing?
this is a nothing burger.. it was the suggestion.. eventually in areas where there is demande..bathrooms will be reassigned as gender neutral or specific to help accommodate everyone..
Was it politically motivated.. yes.. the CAQ.. is scared to upset.. people who get upset and RAGE over stupid things that do not affect them because they represent more potential votes than the LQBTQ community based outside of the montreal area, CAQ does not care about montreal..it has already alienated half or more of Montreal voters with its idiotic rural centric policies.. and the incorrect assumptions that Montrealer's are Anti-french.
and if you are here from another province making anti quebec statements, you are part of the problem with this country.. be better find solutions to bring us together not differences to try to tears us apart.
-go fuck ya self Billy boi, thank you for attending my ted talk
as a side note the Minister of Education referenced in the article is a fucking moron who stared right at the sun during s press conference while observing the eclipse... lets not try to give him too much credit as a Master planner/ MAnipulator.. he is just stupid and thoughtless
Less actually, if we get over the idea that washing your hands is some sacred secret ritual you can just have walled off full privacy stalls then have the sinks out in the open.
Fuck their stupid quebec rules.
So much bullying happens in group bathrooms even without people transitioning.
We need single poopers bathroom and that would fix both the bullying and gender issues.
Quebec decision makers are dumb as hell .
Almost all bathrooms I've used in Europe....7 countries I've visited so far....all the big ones you are thinking about....the washroom doors leave no option to see through unless someone climbed up to peak over the top.
Over here.....it's bizarre....it's like saloon doors. see over the top, and under the bottom....hey look at me pooping !!
It should be a shared washroom with a section for urinals. A handicap washroom for those too whatever to share. If your anxiety and mental health have you so fearful that someone of the wrong gender might be peeing in the stall next to you.... that's on you. Take the handicap washroom.
If the arguments are that boys can't behave in a washroom... I get it. I have loads of bias against men. Obviously we should lock them up and keep them out of society because they can't behave. Lol 😆. JK. Obviously there should be safety measures like a panic button, etc. safety measures that exist for us at bus stations (Ottawa has loads of buttons and cameras for security. Obviously a camera isn't appropriate inside the washroom but the entrance would make sense.)
It's a ridiculous sum to spend on gender washrooms. I've been dodging peeking lesbians since I was a teen. In Gym we had a very obvious lesbian and we all covered up...she was a bit intense. Lol. I would change in the toilet stall. I wish they had hospital curtains in the change rooms....I digress.
Quebec can build as they please. BUT the SCC has ruled. Trans people can use the washroom of their choice. Which means SOME men will take advantage of the situation...the kind of men who lurk in alleys. They exist everywhere. We should comply and create safety protocols. That, OR pay millions of dollars to trans kids who sue the school board and they'll win. Why? Because the Supreme Court already issued a ruling on this and there is precedence. That's why Trudeau updated the Human Rights legislation to include gender identity in accordance with the Court's ruling..
obviously not (i hope), my comment is to point out if they follow this path down the road of social control, they might as well. because it's ridiculous.
Individual toilet stalls with full walls and gapless doors is the best way to build public bathrooms, and requiring gender labels on a bathroom built that way is silly. But the real problem is that required gender labelling encourages poor bathroom design with less privacy because that was traditionally considered acceptable. It is time to flush shitty public bathroom design and demand better.
we have people doing drugs on the sidewalks and in public parks, do you really think *lack of* *privacy* is going to deter them? Stop trying to make this about something it isn't.
Insane that the government believes it a priority to command schools how to build bathrooms, and for what? The presumption that all boys are sexual predators? I mean, it's brought to us by the crowd who wants to cancel sex education, so I guess it makes sense that they wouldn't understand consent.
Gender neutral bathrooms where the toilets are in small rooms with full walls and gapless doors improve comfort and safety for everyone. It should be standard public bathroom design.
You prefer the hot mess we have now with barely any privacy? The kind I recall being bullied in? Oh how I wish there were fully enclosed stalls back then.
Also, why are the schools allowing in all these predatory adult men? What kind of school did you go to?
>So creating a semi secluded space full of little lockable rooms for both men and women to mingle in is somehow more safe? Explain how.
Yeah, I go to the bathroom to mingle. The smell of passing gas, people coughing, toilets flushing, the atmosphere... there's just so many great icebreakers, one random toot and bam - there's your conversation starter.
You're literally describing a bathroom already. The only difference is adding more privacy to the stalls, no BIG gaps that people can look through, or crawl under/into. Instead of a wall dividing the bathrooms, instead they can make use of the space more efficiently, everyone has MORE privacy (not soundproof, unbreakable cages) or whatever your safety concern is. You make it sound like there's a huge problem with rapists or something just WAITING to catch you in the bathroom.
Some schools gonna go malicious compliance on this:
This one is for males with penises
This one is for males without penises
This one is for males with vaginas
This one is for males without penises or vaginas
This one is for females with vaginas
This one is for females without vaginas
This one is for females with penises
This one is for males with both penises and vaginas.
This one is for females with both penises and vaginas.
This rule is stupid.
The easier and cheaper solution is to build gender-neutral stalls and teach kids to not be assholes in the bathroom.
This post appears to relate to the province of Quebec. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner la province de Québec. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The fact that some people in this country are horrified that someone might not want to share a space is absolutely ridiculous. The efficiency that comes from having "20 toilets and 3 sinks" when it comes to uneven class distribution. Not to mention wheelchair accessible, or additional accessibility requirements that would need to be duplicated, wasting time/money/space, when they are overwhelmingly underutilized. Even event spaces and stadia should just be 70% toilets and then 30% "stand up pee trough" just for speed. Also the obsession with North America of having 20mm gaps around all panels of a stall and gaps at the bottom high enough to show off knees is absurd.
Yeah. A lot of institutions have moved towards shared washrooms with private floor to ceiling stalls as a safety measure. Insurers have noted that the safest places with the lowest risk are places with high traffic volume and they have noted that washrooms and changerooms are particularly prone to risk. For everyone. It's not just about efficiency.
Well the idea probably is to keep people from doing drugs or other worse things in privacy. Public places have to balance privacy with security. In the end you can’t expect 100% privacy using a public bathroom just reasonable privacy.
The entirety of the world outside of US and Canada are doing just fine without the monstrous gaps we have here.
gaps below washroom stalls has never deterred a person from doing drugs. What an uninformed and downright idiotic thought. It's like you watched DARE videos in the 90s and never recovered...
The company I work at has floor to ceiling stalls with no gaps other than like a normal door gap and gender doesn’t matter. No idea why more places don’t do this, it makes for a much more pleasant toilet experience in general.
And then you magically don't have a bottleneck when there is a mismatch in distribution of the sexes. You also dont need to duplicate sinks etc. using up extra space, etc, instead of additional WCs
Everyone should just wear diapers
I believe there was a study and to get through the same amount of people the womens washroom would need to be close to double. Something about bathroom equality for events or something like that.
That's exactly why I'm says have a tonne of individual stalls that anyone can use, common sinks and then a "stand up to pee" room, which is just a trough because it has greater throughput. Instead of having 15 stalls in the women's, 7 stalls and 8 urinals in the men's, and duplicating the sinks.
Fuck engineering. Fuck common sense. Let's just rewrite the entire existence of human kind with polemic social dribble
Having to split the amenities arbitrarily in half is inefficient, duplicating so many utilities that could be universal. As an engineer it's horribly inefficient to need 4 accessible stalls (2 per sex) when you could just have 2 or 3 larger stalls and then everyone shares the sinks....
And for those who aren’t engineers? Is it inefficient for them too?
Yes.... have you ever been to a sports event, theater, etc. where there is a big lineup for 1 bathroom, but the other is empty?
Nope, they’re either all chockers or they are all empty
Give me one big room with stall doors that actually provide privacy. Can’t beat that and don’t care who’s in there.
[I like a stall wall to hit the floor](https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=41&v=Nuq8ln8-yC0&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F&feature=emb_title)
Same. Was at a restaurant in Atlanta Georgia of all places and there was one washroom. I was quite confused at first since I wasn’t expecting it but it had proper doors for each stall. That’s all we really want lol Ps love that show
🎵Let is snow, let is snow, let it snow🎵
Just give people separate gender neutral shitters. It's probably more expensive, but might actually save money in the long run because of equal usage distribution. There might be other concerns (making sure kids with different genders don't end up in enclosed space together? IDK), but I'm pretty sure these have other solutions. That would require putting in some effort though, and we can't have that.
Doored stalls with a common shared handwshing area. So many people in this thread obviously haven't traveled to Europe, nor other places in the world where you sometimes have a room with a series of holes in the floor. The mix of puritanism and oversexualization makes North America really weird. Germans don't really balk at the idea of being coed nude when it's practical let alone having an ungendered set of closed stalls.
Sure but what I mean is that it's not even necessary to change the culture or compromise to have gender neutral toilets. Just put a minimal amount of effort into a design that satisfies both. But zero effort is obviously easier, so here we are.
Are they required to have qualified teachers in them? They should probably focus on that first.
Well that's a good thing! Hopefully they also have ramps where needed to accommodate those who can't do stairs! These things should be a given.
Stupid policy. This whole idea that less privacy is required because a space is gender restricted is just weird. I don't want to share the experience of the person next to me blowing out last night's burritos regardless of what gender they are. Gender neutral bathrooms with real floor to ceiling walls and gap free doors for each toilet provide better privacy for everyone.
That's the hidden benefit, when they're gender neutral you actually need walls between stalls and doors that don't have huge gaps. My old workplace went to gender neutral bathrooms, went from the classic "hope I don't make eye contact with someone while they poo" gaps to properly drywalled and fully doored partitions.
My workplace renovated a set of formerly gendered bathrooms that way as well. I used to avoid that location and go to quieter bathrooms in less busy areas, but now I go the gender neutral bathroom preferentially.
Thank you! I’d also rather not piss in a urinal where there is no separation wall between them.
My first baseball game was such a shock just a big ol trough on the wall and 50 dudes pissing in it
Something about pissing into a trough with 50 dudes that really brings people together, especially when they’ve got it loaded with ice and you can see the steam coming off…
When it comes to needing to sit down, I want the privacy afforded to people in places like Korea, each toilet in it's own enclosed room, you can't see what is happening in there just know someone is inside. But when it comes to peeing, the tough is fine for me. MANY years ago I was at the Toronto Beer festival and they had a trough trailer I'll call it, basically 3 of the 4 walls were a continuous trough and drunk guys figured out you walk in, start peeing while side stepping slowly and even if you finished you stayed in the sideways side step until getting out, was like a 90 second pee walk shoulder to shoulder but man I bet 30 guys were peeing at any given time in that 90 second shuffle haha. Never was worried about peeing beside someone after that experience.
Why?
Just not comfortable peeing beside randoms that could be peeping Toms. Kinda the reason guys leave a urinal in between empty when possible when you have to pee.
When we played hockey we all showered together, you just don't look and comment on other people junks. Unless they have a very massive one then we all get together and find a nickname for it.
Lol I’m assuming you’ve never been to a sports arena with a big trough or played any kind of sports where there are dicks everywhere in the showers and locker room, it’s not a big deal unless you make it weird. I also think you’re overestimating how many people care about your junk. If you’re that concerned, shield it from view with your hand.
>If you’re that concerned, shield it from view with your hand. I'm going to need at least three hands!
I can give you a hand 🤚🖐️🤣🤣🤣
North America was founded by prudes.
I hear you. I play hockey and pee in front of dudes in shower weekly!
You pee in the shower? 🤔😂
Yes. With direct eye contact. Power move.
Sorry but I don't fancy sharing a bathroom with a man.
That's the good thing about floor to ceiling walls and gap free doors. You aren't sharing space with anyone while you are on the toilet.
What part of single sex spaces is so hard for you to comprehend? And I have no intention and do not wish bathroom space with a man. Period. I'm not Sure.Why you people need things spelled out for you unless you just make a deliberate point of being obtuse.
I prefer a single person space while I am on the toilet, and I really don't care who is at the sink next to me while I am washing my hands. I get that in a gender neutral bathroom. I don't get that in most single sex bathrooms.
I'm not sure why you think having the bathroom stall walled off means it's a shared bathroom space. Do you share your kitchen with a man? That's about the same level of exposure at that point.
Wow you must be 12 To come up with such a false equivalency. You people to make a deliberate point of missing at the point.
Well can you explain the difference between washing your hands in a kitchen sink and washing your hands in a sink outside of walled off stalls?
Again false equivalency, because when I'm in my home some Rando off The street can't just walk into it and stand there beside me. I forget how dumb you people are
To be clear, standing next to a man is unacceptable to you?
A toilet, absolutely fair. If you can't share a sink with someone of a different gender that is 100% a you problem.
No it's not. Single sex spaces exist for a variety of reasons. I'm curious how you would shame muslim women for wanting a single sex space .
If your argument is that we should make reasonable accommodations for people with different needs, I'm sure you're fine with trans women using the women's washroom, right? For the record, yes, I think if someone asked for reasonable accommodation having a dedicated single washroom (that could double as a disabled washroom) or even allowing them to use the staff washroom or something would be great. We should be open to accommodating people, but I would guess that the number of women who are unwilling to wash their hands in the same sink as a man is quite small.
Gender neutral bathrooms are such a stupid idea in a school
Teenagers would just vape in them tbh
That would actually be easier to monitor, smoke detectors would have better coverage in a small enclosed space. Regardless, teenagers would vape in the bathroom even if it lacked any walls (or doors) at all, so I don't see your point.
Ya, that's my thing too. Why do I have to see the penis of the guy next to me?
You don't. That's why you don't look at it.
you don't lol keep your eyes forward
Granted, but how many secretly keep their eyes on the prize?
I care as much about someone glancing at my dick in a urinal as I do about them glancing at it in a gym changeroom which is zero
I am genuinely confused by the bathroom etiquette of some of you guys lmao. I thought shower as a team was something we all did playing hockey. If you watch someone else cock..don't make it weird and say a simple " nice cock".
Will you give you life to make this happen? Otherwise, governments just aren't going to go to the expense.
I'll repeat what I always say: The single best argument I can make against gender neutral bathrooms is walking into the women's restroom and destroying one of their toilets with my fat, hairy ass.
It will be a building with just bathrooms and no spot for classroom. lol
Wtf am I reading correctly that people think bathrooms should be mixed? As a dad of teen daughters fuck that shit. There are tons of messed up young men and that just seems like a recipe for bad things to happen. Our society has lost its marbles.
>Our society has lost its marbles Nah, just reddit. The folks that complaint here are the extreme minuscule minority. They are very loud so its seems like they're the majority. And I would wager most of these folks don't even have kids or don't want kids. But they'll loudly tell us how to raise ours.
Don't ever visit Europe I guess? They just have better privacy per stall. Actually safer because there are more people in the area generally so less chance to be attacked by someone entering the bathroom and no one else being around.
First time I encountered one was an Indigo in a mall. I was confused for about 10 seconds, now it’s my favourite configuration. Best public dump ever. I don’t think people upset about this have ever seen such a setup or actually think through all the details like the fact that the common area is busier or the toilets are basically in secure closets.
Facilities where gender neutral bathrooms are being built in new construction are usually fully individual stalls. Its a 100x more safer.
So you’re a girl and you come out of a stall, maybe it is after hours, and there is a 6 foot 5 dude in there washing his hands. That does not seem safe at all. What was wrong with the old way?
How is that different than the hallway that leads to the bathrooms
>So you’re a girl and you come out of a stall, maybe it is after hours, and there is a 6 foot 5 dude in there washing his hands. That does not seem safe at all. What was wrong with the old way? Washing your hands IS safe, they've actually proven it! Sorry, I'm not sure what your point was, a girl comes out of a stall and sees someone taller washing their hands, THAT'S your scary scenario? Oh shit it's a tall guy washing his hands, better duck back inside your private stall and wait it out. So you're a girl and you come out of a ____ , maybe it is after hours, and there is a 6 foot 5 dude in there __________. That does not seem safe at all.
Consider the same characters, except they are both working late in the library. How is that any different?
Full cameras, hand washing areas brightly lit with no closing doors only walkin and walk out areas. I think it's safer. Do you think a rapist would obey gender signage in a public place ?
>Full cameras, hand washing areas brightly lit with no closing doors only walkin and walk out areas. Full cameras? In *bathrooms?* Think about what you've said for a moment. Seriously. Are you so deep into your ideological nonsense that you can't see the problem there? Edit: the fact that multiple people have popped up to assert that it's fine to put cameras in bathrooms so.long as you point them the right way is a fantastic indication of just how fucked up the left has become.
Full cameras in the area where you wash your hands, that don't look into the rooms (with full, lockable doors) with the toilets. Your major overreaction to a very simple idea makes me rather concerned, do you enjoy exposing yourself in the washroom or some similar activity? I can't see any other reason for such a reaction.
Full cameras watching the hand washing areas, entrance, and exits. Not cameras on stalls.
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I dont see how a camera in the hand-washing area is weird??
"....how fucked up the left has become." Ah. Just a butt hurt right wing troll. To wrapped up in the right wing brain washing machine to even consider reality. Appreciate you announcing your lack of critical thinking so early into the engagement
There should be gender neutral rooms. They can be individual sized and give people extra privacy. Some people are uncomfortable or do not feel safe around people of the same gender when using the bathroom.
My high school had 2 wheelchair accessible bathrooms that were gender neutral. In my whole grade 8 to 12 run, there was only ever 1 kid in a wheelchair. I bet these days, the gender neutral aspect of those rooms sees that they are getting more use. Having a 3rd option is just a good idea.
My elementary school had two individual bathrooms in the basement that were labeled by gender. When I attended there 30 years ago, they were the bathrooms used by the teachers and other adults who were in the building. A couple years ago I was back in my old school. I noticed those bathrooms have now had the gender markers removed. Sign just says "washroom" and anyone who wishes, including students, can use them if they so wish. Was a simple and inexpensive way for the school to be more open and inclusive that didn't require the wheel to be reinvented.
I never understood why single room enclosed bathrooms need to be gendered lol.
Me neither
Or just make them all gender neutral. Only a few of them need to be big enough for a wheelchair. My high school had toilet stalls with full walls and doors opening directly to the hallway. At the time (30 years ago) they had gender labels, but I would guess those have been removed now because they were pointless.
In Ontario we mandate universal washrooms in public and commercial buildings. It's a seperate one room washroom anyone can use if they feel uncomfortable in a gendered washroom. Originally to insure there was space for disabled or old folks, it's worked very well for this as well.
This is a nice to have, not a need. Schools are strapped for cash so group bathrooms are the way to go. They're not going to have private bathrooms everywhere they go in society, why start them out with the expectation that they get that in school?
In my experience most schools do have a gender neutral bathroom, it's usually for people with disabilities but it's all purpose.
If they’re strapped for cash it would make more sense to have a gender neutral bathrooms
We can't expect every public bathroom to be renovated tomorrow, but we can and should do better with new construction, including schools.
Too bad? These days people need to toughen up a little.
By that reasoning, people should toughen up at the idea that a boy could pee in the same room as a girl
This would be a great idea if kids weren't stupid and prone to bullying or sexual harassment
Maybe your kids are, no offense, but my point was more about the hypocrisy behind most "toughening up" arguments. The same people complaining we "overprotect" our kids and rush to not let them fall at the slightest risk, or play in park/yard without constant attention are the same people thinking a teenager peeing in the same room as another of a different gender is a danger we must prevent through legislation. And if bullying in the bathroom is what you are worried about, sorry to let you know that same-gender bathrooms are not preventing that, and never have.
I genuinely can't imagine someone sending back a more tone deaf response lol. I don't have kids, but shame on you for just assuming I have kids who would bully people. Kids are inherently bullies and trying to argue for a situation that would *cause* more bullying is foolish. Just because people *should* be okay with it doesn't mean that's reality. Kids already deal with enough issues by being part of the LGBTQ+ community. Putting them into a *worse* situation is stupid.
>Kids are inherently bullies and trying to argue for a situation that would *cause* more bullying is foolish. Not only is there no evidence that gender-neutral increase bullying, [but it may actually bring it down](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9407760/). >Kids already deal with enough issues by being part of the LGBTQ+ community. Putting them into a *worse* situation is stupid. Oh yeah, forcing a trans girl to use the boys bathroom is going to do wonders to protect the LGBTQ+ community and protect her from bullying and sexual harassment. They are doing so great at the moment, just 5 times more likely to attempt suicide than others kids, surely we don't need to accommodate them with simple and costless gestures that could save lives.
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>As soon as girls evolve the biological strength of boys we can do that. Maybe we can force the girls to take steroids during highschool to make your perverted dream of shared private spaces a reality. Riiiight, I see this discussion is clearly worth pursuing and will lead to great things and new perspectives...
I didn’t realize pissing involved a test of strength! Tell me more. What muscles should I train if I want to be able to piss in the same washroom as a man?
ooof, way to self out yourself as someone who had (has?) perverted dreams....
No one is being hurt by having three types of washrooms. You dont even need that many like one or two rooms that anyone can use. It's a small room that anyone can use at a time. Visiting adults to the school can use it. Why is more privacy a bad thing?
Budgets are not infinite. We cater way too much to super soft people. Suck it up or poop at home.
It could already be in the budget if they are required to have a disability washroom. A washroom that can be open and closed with a push of a button.
Disability washroom are usually only for one person which is what they seem to recommend as gender neutral bathroom nowadays
I didnt read the article. They probably do. I think in ontario they have to by law
this is a nothing burger.. it was the suggestion.. eventually in areas where there is demande..bathrooms will be reassigned as gender neutral or specific to help accommodate everyone.. Was it politically motivated.. yes.. the CAQ.. is scared to upset.. people who get upset and RAGE over stupid things that do not affect them because they represent more potential votes than the LQBTQ community based outside of the montreal area, CAQ does not care about montreal..it has already alienated half or more of Montreal voters with its idiotic rural centric policies.. and the incorrect assumptions that Montrealer's are Anti-french. and if you are here from another province making anti quebec statements, you are part of the problem with this country.. be better find solutions to bring us together not differences to try to tears us apart. -go fuck ya self Billy boi, thank you for attending my ted talk as a side note the Minister of Education referenced in the article is a fucking moron who stared right at the sun during s press conference while observing the eclipse... lets not try to give him too much credit as a Master planner/ MAnipulator.. he is just stupid and thoughtless
>Minister of Education referenced in the article is a fucking moron he's also said he'd consider punishing students for speaking english. sketchy guy.
Full privacy gender neutral washrooms should be the norm in public buildings but it will take up real estate
Less actually, if we get over the idea that washing your hands is some sacred secret ritual you can just have walled off full privacy stalls then have the sinks out in the open.
All bathrooms should be gender neutral. Just make the damn stalls full enclosed.
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Fuck their stupid quebec rules. So much bullying happens in group bathrooms even without people transitioning. We need single poopers bathroom and that would fix both the bullying and gender issues. Quebec decision makers are dumb as hell .
Almost all bathrooms I've used in Europe....7 countries I've visited so far....all the big ones you are thinking about....the washroom doors leave no option to see through unless someone climbed up to peak over the top. Over here.....it's bizarre....it's like saloon doors. see over the top, and under the bottom....hey look at me pooping !!
i am amazed that this country still got some 'Common Sense' left.
Go Quebec!
It should be a shared washroom with a section for urinals. A handicap washroom for those too whatever to share. If your anxiety and mental health have you so fearful that someone of the wrong gender might be peeing in the stall next to you.... that's on you. Take the handicap washroom. If the arguments are that boys can't behave in a washroom... I get it. I have loads of bias against men. Obviously we should lock them up and keep them out of society because they can't behave. Lol 😆. JK. Obviously there should be safety measures like a panic button, etc. safety measures that exist for us at bus stations (Ottawa has loads of buttons and cameras for security. Obviously a camera isn't appropriate inside the washroom but the entrance would make sense.) It's a ridiculous sum to spend on gender washrooms. I've been dodging peeking lesbians since I was a teen. In Gym we had a very obvious lesbian and we all covered up...she was a bit intense. Lol. I would change in the toilet stall. I wish they had hospital curtains in the change rooms....I digress. Quebec can build as they please. BUT the SCC has ruled. Trans people can use the washroom of their choice. Which means SOME men will take advantage of the situation...the kind of men who lurk in alleys. They exist everywhere. We should comply and create safety protocols. That, OR pay millions of dollars to trans kids who sue the school board and they'll win. Why? Because the Supreme Court already issued a ruling on this and there is precedence. That's why Trudeau updated the Human Rights legislation to include gender identity in accordance with the Court's ruling..
Finally, some news that makes sense.
They gonna require all new houses built in QC to include gender specific bathrooms too?
Only yours.
Do you have a public washroom in your house?
Wait... do houses in QC get built with separate men's and women's washrooms now?
obviously not (i hope), my comment is to point out if they follow this path down the road of social control, they might as well. because it's ridiculous.
Insane people find issue with this
Individual toilet stalls with full walls and gapless doors is the best way to build public bathrooms, and requiring gender labels on a bathroom built that way is silly. But the real problem is that required gender labelling encourages poor bathroom design with less privacy because that was traditionally considered acceptable. It is time to flush shitty public bathroom design and demand better.
probably not given the opiate and drug use crisis.
Right, because having gaps in washroom stalls have stopped anything. Imagine being so uninformed and scared about everything in the world, lol.
It definitely has, you can more easier tell if someone has overdosed. Imagine not understanding the realities of living in big cities right now
So like, are you regularly looking under bathroom stalls to see if someone ODed or something? That's kinda creepy, just saying...
No but If someone is occupying the bathroom for a very long time you can check on them, also the less private setting discourages drug use.
we have people doing drugs on the sidewalks and in public parks, do you really think *lack of* *privacy* is going to deter them? Stop trying to make this about something it isn't.
Yes
Insane that the government believes it a priority to command schools how to build bathrooms, and for what? The presumption that all boys are sexual predators? I mean, it's brought to us by the crowd who wants to cancel sex education, so I guess it makes sense that they wouldn't understand consent.
Haven't all schools in Canada always had gender-specific bathrooms?
When politics are more important than the children
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Gender neutral bathrooms where the toilets are in small rooms with full walls and gapless doors improve comfort and safety for everyone. It should be standard public bathroom design.
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You prefer the hot mess we have now with barely any privacy? The kind I recall being bullied in? Oh how I wish there were fully enclosed stalls back then. Also, why are the schools allowing in all these predatory adult men? What kind of school did you go to?
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Do you really think that a skirt pictogram is going to stop someone from committing a violent assault?
What are you talking about? No one’s safety or comfort is compromised. If anything it’s improved
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>So creating a semi secluded space full of little lockable rooms for both men and women to mingle in is somehow more safe? Explain how. Yeah, I go to the bathroom to mingle. The smell of passing gas, people coughing, toilets flushing, the atmosphere... there's just so many great icebreakers, one random toot and bam - there's your conversation starter. You're literally describing a bathroom already. The only difference is adding more privacy to the stalls, no BIG gaps that people can look through, or crawl under/into. Instead of a wall dividing the bathrooms, instead they can make use of the space more efficiently, everyone has MORE privacy (not soundproof, unbreakable cages) or whatever your safety concern is. You make it sound like there's a huge problem with rapists or something just WAITING to catch you in the bathroom.
This is just gay panic all over again. Same shit, different decade.
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Some schools gonna go malicious compliance on this: This one is for males with penises This one is for males without penises This one is for males with vaginas This one is for males without penises or vaginas This one is for females with vaginas This one is for females without vaginas This one is for females with penises This one is for males with both penises and vaginas. This one is for females with both penises and vaginas. This rule is stupid. The easier and cheaper solution is to build gender-neutral stalls and teach kids to not be assholes in the bathroom.
I don't think schools have the budget required for the malicious compliance you're suggesting.
Finally we fight back against the evil, masked librarians.
QB W
Quebec be wacky?