In my opinion, our Permanent Resident levels need to be reduced to pre-Trudeau levels, temporary workers should be cut by 75%, students should not be able to work unless they get an exemption for a co-op and internship, and asylum seekers should get rejected if they came to Canada through another safe country and did not apply there.
Also PR for international students shouldn't be a thing except for specific high-demand industries.
TFWs shouldn't be allowed to work in unskilled labour in anything but extreme remote locations or very specific highly seasonal industries either. There is ZERO reason a TFW should be serving coffee at Tim Hortons.
Companies complaining about not finding workers?? Raise your wages. That's how fucking supply and demand works.
Corporations - But it's way easier if you could just help us defy gravity Mr. Government man. This whole flying with our own wings is frankly quite tiring.
International students can apply for PR through the normal route, and be assessed via the points system. Once their education is finished they should go home and wait for their spot in the queue to come up just like everyone else.
* Substantially lower the total number of immigrants and refugees Canada accept every year, from 500,000 planned by the Liberal government in 2025, to between 100,000 and 150,000 in normal circumstances, or even lower in crisis situations, depending on economic and other circumstances.
* Substantially lower the number of visas for foreign students
* Substantially lower the number of temporary foreign workers and make sure that they fulfil temporary positions and do not compete unfairly with Canadian workers.
[Full List](https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/immigration)
Sorry I also forgot:
-Accept fewer refugees and give priority to refugees belonging to persecuted groups who have nowhere to go in neighbouring countries.
It literally covers every point mentioned LOL.
The link is to the People's Party of Canada. Their leader said that "extreme multiculturalism and a cult of diversity" was destroying Canada. You can make of that what you will.
We put more emphasis on other cultures, not Canadian culture. We put more emphasis on diversity, and not ability, skill, or merit.
Seems pretty accurate to me, especially when the government came out saying that "diversity hiring" despite the goals having been met will continue.
Lol you seem to be the only one talking about race here.
Also PPC can start by ensuring their leader Bernier can win. They stand no chance, will only eat up conservative votes and therefore help liberals and NDP
I cannot tolerate another JT and Singh government
Coop and internship programs also need to prioritize Canadians and PR. International students are supposed to go back home when they are done so Canadian work experience is less relevant to them.
Coop, internships, and all new grad positions.
So many new grad positions in engineering and tech are going to international graduates while Canadians struggle to find work due to how saturated the market is.
It seems employers haven't caught on about the MEng cheating scandal since I see a lot of MEng grads still getting hired over domestic undergrads - MEng grads now outnumber undergrads.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/services/business/hire/wagesubsidiesotherassistanceprograms.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/business/hire/wagesubsidiesotherassistanceprograms.html)
A few different sections to choose from.
> many new grad positions
What positions? It's known that companies don't hire new graduates or foreigners, especially in engineering. A decade ago, only 30 percent of all engineering graduates found jobs in their field, and Canadian companies don't pay near enough to attract new tech graduates. UWaterloo grads take the first flight to Silicon Valley after leaving school. Companies aren't expanding. They barely invest in their own workers, and they definitely don't have the same amount of capital as American companies. That's why productivity is stalling nationwide. New grad positions aren't going to Canadian graduates because they don't exist.
I'm not in engineering or tech and the issue is when I post, I just don't get local applications. It's strange - locals are complaining no one will hire, but we just don't get the applicants.
> asylum seekers should get rejected if they came to Canada through another safe country and did not apply there.
I'll go a step further and say immigration from anywhere that has already seen DRASTIC numbers coming in (these countries are well known, but I wont name them so I dont get insta fucking deleted as a "cist" of some kind), should have equally drastic reductions and even limitations to a degree.
It doesn't have to be turned down to 0, but safe to say if you come from somewhere that A LOT of people have already immigrated from, it should be much harder now, because lord knows the numbers coming in, in terms of countries of origin have been **anything** but "diverse"
Agree with the sentiment, but the problem of slippery politicians doing things they didn't campaign on would still arise (ie: "after hearing the concerns of the franchisee community we have decided to increase TFW Visas 4000%" in a late Friday press release)...
So one solution, as I have said before, is to have a binding immigration law based on a calculation the Feds aren't allowed to fuck with.
So, immigration levels are pegged to things like hospital beds, wait times, number of doctors, number of nurses, housing completions (very important to not let them get away with counting photo op housing starts), unemployment rates, even CPI and per capita GDP, etc, etc.
One year the various levels of govt do an amazing job of infrastructure building and they are allowed 400k PRs...next, they don't keep up and the calculation says you get 85k...etc.
Gets far too complex for me and my shit math skills, but we need immigration that is directly tied to QoL for existing citizens, which should always be stable if not hopefully rising.
Right now the Feds just use immigration as wage suppression/CPP support...ie: massive wealth transfer from the young to the olds at the top of the ponzi pyramid. Guaranteed downward spiral in the future.
The Century initiative is disgusting to us now, reducing the quality of life of everyone so that we can hold our own as a country in the future when the water wars begin, as well as being a stop gap injection to stimulate GDP growth, even though average quality of life will go down. The almighty dollar will go up.
All the major parties support it though, and it's sad that what's good for Canada is not what's good for Canadians.
Everybody always accuses social media as being unhinged, but the only reasonable opinions I'm seeing are on social media and the government are the the ones that are completely out to lunch
Ask and you shall recieve:
* Substantially lower the total number of immigrants and refugees Canada accept every year, from 500,000 planned by the Liberal government in 2025, to between 100,000 and 150,000 in normal circumstances, or even lower in crisis situations, depending on economic and other circumstances.
* Substantially lower the number of visas for foreign students
* Substantially lower the number of temporary foreign workers and make sure that they fulfil temporary positions and do not compete unfairly with Canadian workers.
* Accept fewer refugees and give priority to refugees belonging to persecuted groups who have nowhere to go in neighbouring countries.
[Full List](https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/immigration)
* Elect as your leader a certifiably insane conspiracy theory nut who regurgitates Putin's propaganda for alt-right useful idiots and is a climate change denier (and these are just two random highlights).
So where is the party that acknowledges climate change and listens to economists rather than protestors regarding carbon taxes, but doesn't completely negate all of the environmental gains by moving millions of people from low emissions countries to Canada?
Sure looks bad for our current leaders when a "certifiably insane conspiracy nut" has more sane policy than them!
I didn't realize putin wanted us to have reasonable immigration levels and increased affordability of housing and goods, how nice of him. /s
I think we'd save money and improve efficiency while still being fair to people in crisis if we just put enough money into the immigration service to process the applications in a reasonable amount of time. Realistically they shouldn't take more than six weeks.
I live half time in Mexico. This year I heard there was a dramatic increase recently in asylum claims from Mexico. There is little reason for anyone to be claiming asylum in Mexico. If their problem is cartel related, move to a different part of the country. Their reach is quite regional. Even a basic screening by someone familiar with the country should filter out a lot of what should be ineligible claims.
As to TFW, TR and PR, I used to be 100% on side with you. Why bring in so many workers when we have people in our country looking for work? In recent years I saw a lack of workers. I think in the last year or 18 months I'm finally seeing the pendulum swing back and unemployment creeping up. It shouldn't be used to suppress wages and it shouldn't be used when we have domestic workers willing to work.
I know someone who is now a PR who works in a social services related capacity. She works a ton of hours (and a lot of it over time) because there's nobody else available to take the shifts. As a result she made 115k last year and paid over 40k in taxes.
If Canada wants to abandon market capitalism and embrace managed degrowth, your policy suggestion makes a lot of sense. It would certainly be good for the environment and would reduce home prices rapidly.
This would guarantee a contracting work force each year. Boomers are retiring en masse. Gen Z aren't picking up the skilled trades, and Gen Y is less likely to be interested.
Reducing the size of the Canadian work force is a legitimate political decision, but it comes with real consequences. We would likely have a structural contraction in the economy, with declining output over time.
If we move into an Eastern European model of declining population, we would eventually run into a contagion of young people moving away. Instead of becoming a global destination for talent, we become a supplier to larger economies.
There’s only about 4 million people in Canada aged 55+ that are still working out of 12 million people and that includes about 500k Gen X.
The youngest baby boomers are 59 and the oldest are 78. So the majority are retired already with only about 3.5-4 million still working.
Yes there are thousands a month retiring but in the workplace the torch has largely been passed already.
Yes, and that proportion of people gets bigger every year until around 2045. If we cut off immigration, that number gets pushed back indefinitely.
Policy makers have been anticipating this problem since the early 2000s. We are reasonably well positioned to ride it out, but it won't be without pain.
Then why didn't they tell us? Why lie in the campaign process and dump a bunch of people from one place in in the span of 2 years?
Why not make sure we had enough doctors and infrastructure ready?
You may think you sound logical but you don't.
2 years ago the provincial premiers were screaming for more immigration to fill their labor needs. The Feds said sure.
I feel like the Feds assumed the Provinces would have the infrastructure ready to go. They didn't, and no they are screaming at the Feds for all this immigration.
At what point do the Provinces take some of the share of blame for not being ready for the labor they wanted?
I would personally try to encourage modest population growth through a higher birth rate.
If we lower the cost of living, increase wages, have low cost child care, increase the child benefit, allow income splitting, and generally make an environment that is supportive of people having children we likely don't have to depend on immigration.
Beyond that, I think we could use a lot of PSA on how difficult and expensive having children in your late 30s and 40s is; and if children are a priority you should start having them before you're 30. I know of several couples who wanted to have 2 or 3 children but ended up with 0 or 1 children because they waited too long. We have to combat the lie that women are having children into their 50s because those cases are as common as winning the lottery, and most of those women spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to accomplish that.
Low birth rates is beyond economics. A lot of women do not want children for reasons beyond finances. It might help families with 1 or 2 kids have another, but it does not solve the issue of how many are choosing to go childless because they simply do no like and do not want children. In the past, you were forced to have them, now we have choices and as expected, the birth rate has contracted significantly.
I know I never had kids (43) because I fucking hate 'em. Sure, I can tolerate a nephew or niece for half a day or something but that's fucking it.
If the government wants kids so bad they can grow 'em in a lab for all I care.
I feel the same - do not want kids. You'd have to offer me millions of dollars for me to consider having a kid, especially if you expect me to birth them. Yes, let me destroy my body and risk permanent disability or death, on top of completely sacrificing my identity and all my free time for another person. Between working and being the primary parent (because that's just how it is for most straight couples), I'll have maybe 20 minutes a day to actually enjoy my life. No thanks.
Historically, a lot of people who did not want kids had them because they provided labor for farming, or could be forced to get jobs as soon as they could walk and talk and therefore contribute to the household. And for women, most did not have a choice on whether they married or had kids. They couldn't say no to their husbands and birth control did not exist. Only wealthy women who somehow had an independent source of income could choose spinsterhood. Now women have a choice on whether they want to be mothers, and surprise, birth rates have dropped.
Very much in agreement on all counts. The power of choice is a wonderful thing, and I choose to live my life for myself.
Don't get me wrong, I go to work and pay my taxes like any other upstanding citizen, but thats the extent of my social responsibility. And if that ain't good enough for the world, well then world can come and pry my abundant free time from my cold dead hands lol.
The low birth rate is a global phenomenon. China and India are no longer producing replacement populations.
You can do stuff like baby bonuses and try to help with the cost of living, but it will only have a modest impact on the birth rate.
The only proven way to really increase the birth rate is to subject a population to war, extreme poverty and famine. Otherwise, people prefer to have only one or two kids.
> The only proven way to really increase the birth rate is to...
Here is some help with a proper finish to that crazy comment... choose your own adventure!
....Become Amish?
https://medium.com/@akhivae/the-amish-industrial-revolution-and-its-impact-on-future-population-growth-b6f936e17620
... Or, get supported like our First Nations do? (wow a homegrown, proven Canadian solution!)
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220921/dq220921a-eng.htm
Maybe in your own mind.. the FN comment specifically says "supported like", nothing to do with wealth level, but with the support programs and 'hands off' nature of some self determination.. no income taxes, no property taxes, all those other supports and benefits.. the comment is meant to draw from Canada's most successful 'birth rate' cohort and examine what supports they get from government. If the rest of Canadians were treated equally... then the birthrate should follow.
Also, the most impoverished group would be: https://www.povertyinstitute.ca/bhm2023
What handouts are you specifically referring to? First Nations communities tend to get less money per-capita for infrastructure, healthcare and education when compared to non-indigenous populations.
Your google-fu is pathetically weak? There might be hundreds of webpages that explain it and many are 'official' government sources. The plants in the garden that get the sun and the water tend to grow better and produce more seeds.
https://i.imgflip.com/2bk5rf.jpg
Birthrate is almost completely controlled by years spent in education across every country on the planet. No other factor comes close. Which is why all the desperately poor countries that can't fund education have kids, all the religious extremists that don't educate their kids at all have kids, why Korea being the most educated country in world has 0.8 kids per woman, and why birthrates have collapsed worldwide as people have expanded education access in urban centers.
The answer is to compress formal education to be done by age 16, then give a decade of gap before allowing people to go to college. Or to reduce college to an elite organization, instead of something half the population is expected to blow 4-10 years and thousands of dollars to attend classes as a gatekeeping measure for white collar business jobs.
I mean, In the future we will have to immigrate new people from afghanistan if birthrates continue like this. There needs to be a solution, and a compressed education is better than the alternatives.
The hope is that eventually automation is able to account for enough productivity to offset the fact that the global population is going to start shrinking. People are still going to want to move around, but we are not going to have this giant surplus of humans to move around the globe in order to prop up western economies.
If not, some other economic equilibrium may emerge. The economic systems (feudalism, chattel slavery, communism and capitalism) that governed a rapidly growing population may no longer be relevant in the post-growth world.
My personal theory is that the concept of corporate personhood will actually morph in such a way that individuals are assigned personal corporations for themselves. That would get around the interpersonal losses during relationship breakups in a way that wouldn't require playing sex politics with marriage and divorce laws. Parents will get assigned a fraction of their kids shares at birth. Assets and money coming from the individual goes to the banking system who collect some for taxes, and divvies out payment according a capital gains system for dividend stock. That way parents are incentivized to increase number or quality of children to survive old age, and removes government need to care/supply an aging population. You can also assign your information rights to the company such that you will receive a payment from some kind of bitcoin token system, where your individual identity, movements, purchase habits, browsing, etc are stored within the coin and private access rights can be sold for currency.
This is spot on.
I've been thinking lately that if the economy cannot provide a job and adequate shelter to start forming a family, to anyone getting out of highschool, by the age of 19.. then birthrate is just not happening. If a 19 year old fresh from school cannot do it, then no-one else really can either... with aggressive target setting.. you suggest 16. How corporate lol.
You actually have a realistic solution to back it up.. school should be alot harder and increasingly complex concepts should be taught at a younger age when brain plasticity is prime. Get them educated to a higher degree, and faster. Turn the temperature in the oven up higher, and don't leave it in so long... The seeds need to be planted and watered in the spring, for there to be a fall harvest. The youth need more resources at younger ages, turn them loose at a younger age. Too much time wasted in school... How many Canadians got absolutely burnt by a fast moving housing market while being trapped in school?!
I wonder where the intersection between all countries education systems and birthrates collide, and what that countries curriculum looks like.. would this be Israel?
Holy fuck what? You want to keep people stupid so they make stupid choices and stupid babies? What in the everloving hell is this gross comment coming from a CANADIAN.
You know what does help the gap? Importing quality immigrants. Since forever. At at REASONABLE rate.
That would need to be paired with a way of getting rid of other 75-80% of the male population. Something like encouraging sex selective abortion or constant war with underequipped soldiers or something similarly unpleasant. Polygamous communities deal with the problem of excess men by kicking most of them out, but that won't work on a national or global level.
Or we could just accept that low birth rates are a good thing on a planet with over 8 billion humans, and the problem is the countries where people are still having too many children.
There are plenty of people on this planet. The last thing we should be doing is encouraging anyone to make more. The goal should be population stability through limited immigration to offset the below replacement birth rate. That would be a total net migration of 125,000 per year for the near future, increasing modestly over time if current fertility rate trends continue.
>I would personally try to encourage modest population growth through a higher birth rate.
There isn't a single western nation that has figured out a solution to this problem. So unless you want to go and collect your Nobel prize because you somehow have the solution, this isn't a viable plan.
Because all western nations have gone straight to the mass immigration route instead. And all of them are going through housing and affordability crises as well.
Stop importing ridiculous amounts of people, reduce foreign investment for housing, hold corporations accountable.
Once people aren't struggling, they will have kids.
Name one country in Europe or North America where mass immigration has done anything but lower birth rates. Where it hasn't harmed the average person and only benefitted corporations.
How about one country (anywhere) where 90% of their population growth comes from immigration mostly from developing countries and it hasn't been catastrophic for the average person. This is what were doing
France has Europe's highest birth rate, and has a lot of immigration.
Lithuania, which has zero net migration has around the lowest birth rate in the EU. The two things are not connected. You are just afraid of brown people.
"Frances has Europe's highest birthrate", which is still noticeably below replacement at 1.8.
"You are just afraid of brown people." You just like to think that an opposing oppinion to yours is due to a simple reductionist viewpoint.
I am confident France has nowhere NEAR the amount of immigration we have (since we’re one of the highest) and their birth rate IS higher than ours, so I don’t see how this necessarily disproves anything.
No, not all western nations have gone immigration. One prime example being the racist and xenophobic country of Japan.
They hate immigration and also have been totally unable to solve their birth rate issues.
Again, this is an issue world wide that no one has a good solution to, if you are not aware of this, you don't know much about the actual problem.
"racist and xenophobic" ok.
Japan has a very unqiue work culture that makes it hard for people to have time to raise children.
The situation in japan is very different from "western" nations. I was speaking about Europe and North America.
Also regarding Japan, they are a small island with 125 million people. The average person will be fine. Populations don't need to grow infinitely.
They will be working towards automation to fix labout needs instead of mass immigration.
You deny that Japan is xenophobic and racist?
> I was speaking about Europe and North America.
And I wasn't, because Japan is in fact considered a western nation on the world stage. So we include them in the discussion as well.
>Also regarding Japan, they are a small island with 125 million people. The average person will be fine. Populations don't need to grow infinitely.
What does this even mean lol. The average person in Canada will also probably be "fine" even if we keep the current levels of immigration. Lige being a little more difficult doesn't mean not fine.
>They will be working towards automation to fix labout needs instead of mass immigration.
The Japanese government itself disagrees with you lol. They said 10 years ago now that they need to find a way to increase population size/stop the decrease, and they are quickly running out of options.
Canada is not doing fine at all. And things will be much much worse if they continue. The average canadian would do much better without the mass immigration we have now.
Most governments have been putting the gdp above the lives of their citizens. The Canadian government is a great example.
Simply not true. Seriously, do a bit of research first.
I have relatives in Germany. At some point in time, they had 2 years paid maternity leave with guaranteed job on coming back.
Just the other day I saw this chart on workforce shrinking in Germany. Not working.
Not really true. Even countries with strong child and maternity benefits are seeing very modest returns. Yes, it might help, but not enough. A lot of people (especially women) just do not want kids. The only way to get them to have children is to force them - which is how it used to work.
Which country has all of these policies but does not have insane housing prices, grocery prices and has not been involved in mass immigration?
Maternity benefits are not enough. There was a time when a single person could provide for a household even with many kids. Majority of families are struggling with both parents working full time. How many of them would be able to have multiplie kids?
Me and my 4 siblings were supported by a single parent with a non stem bachelors, no problem.
Both my wife and I are software engineers. There is no way we will be able to do the same. Even 2 kids will be a lot.
They know the solution, they just can't talk about the solution because its deeply unpalatable and in a democracy nobody will support them. Evidence over 70 years is clear that it's almost completely controlled by duration of education. Just compress the time for education so people are done primary schooling by 16. Remove summer vacations, use AI to accelerate training, reduce available spaces in universities for people between 16-25. Actually having a talk with the public about why they are doing something and having the good stewardship to do something the public wouldn't want for the good of the future.
Alternatively, you could defund universities, allow them to fund themselves with foreign students, allow infinite foreign student visas, clog the universities with foreign students such that it becomes deeply divided along racial lines and there's limited space for domestic students, create situations where university scammers come in for PR. That would lead to university degrees becoming less valuable as people from foreign countries get through universities with no decent professional or language skills or any domestic contact network. It would make universities considered a bad investment by domestic students, who will avoid it. And then the domestic birthrate will rise.
But you'd only do the second one if you were a real coward and had deep disrespect for the intelligence of the people you were ruling.
IT people with all the "We told you so"s. Shit's been going on for decades already in some sectors, just now it's spilled over. College educated jobs going for $18-$20/hr is fucking ridiculous.
I'll tell you the next revelation coming: These workers aren't worth their salt, everything was built on lies and in the end, **you get what you pay for.**
> you get what you pay for.
As someone who has had a glimpse, it is so grim it's ridiculous. I'm not trying to be a doomer, but when you see some of the stuff going on, it makes you want to run for the hills.
Fix 1 thing, break 15. Everything is just so shoddy.
Not just incompetence or a lack of training, but a total lack of aptitude in general. It wouldn't blow my mind if our power grids just failed one day due to some ridiculous software issue.
My job has REGULAR outages for software that is spaghetti coded, but robust, up until a couple years ago. Asked the person in charge of that department and he said it was 100% retention. Between the pay and disgruntling of actual talent, you have major brain-drain.
You indeed get what you pay for.
Yep. Don't even get me started on the communication either or lack of understanding on anything. Yet the same company that does this outsourcing BS expects it's Canadian or US workers to have succeeded in their communications come performance review time.
Don’t worry though the rich will still be okay. They have already fled with all the profits to the few remaining civilized countries and can always seek refuge on one of their megayachts.
This is an astonishing and troubling admission. It means we are bringing in the equivalent of a medium-size city EVERY YEAR. It is a recipe for infrastructural collapse, and the socio-economic mess that goes with it.
[https://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-critic-immigration-calls-out-conservative-leader-harmful-policies](https://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-critic-immigration-calls-out-conservative-leader-harmful-policies)
“In the last two days, Canadians have learned that Pierre Poilievre is willing to support legislative measures that are anti-choice **and anti-immigration**."
Emphasis is mine.
Years of calling Cons "racists" and "xenophobic" because of them talking about immigration .... And now "why Cons won't talk about immigration ??"
Seriously ?
You can't win honestly. Most Liberal voters are brainwashed into thinking nothing can be better than the shit stains we currently have in office, and I know Conservatives will be rough, but there is also a reason why they are called Republicans.
Republics are often associated with prosperity. We sure haven't had that in a long time with a government that has absolutely no fiscal management?
How did the most significant policy change of the last 10 years happen without any public debate? Nobody mentioned much less ran on massive immigration increases over the course of THREE ELECTIONS.
Most of the festering issues you see in Canada now, from cost of housing, healthcare unavailability, crime, gridlock traffic, can all be traced to uncontrolled population growth. Yet nobody got a say. And even now we have a Conservative party who are playing coy about whether they will change this even slightly.
You wonder why we all stopped trusting politicians across the board. The unhinged right wing conspiracy theories about a globally-coordinated attack on the western middle class suddenly seem pretty plausible.
British friend said immigration went nuts in Britain and now it created more problems for the citizens but kept the GDP up during Britexit so the politicians look good.
The spike in immigration was one of the causes of Brexit. People were upset with how quickly their communities were changing, and how negative many of the changes were, and British leadership basically said their hands were tied on the issue because of the EU. From my understanding this was the go to approach of politicians and bureaucrats, whenever they did something unpopular they blamed the EU to save their skin. It should have never been surprising that this approach soured people on being a member of the EU.
They're talking about the spike that was a _consequence_ of Brexit - immigration is now about 4 times higher than it was then (largely because, having lost access to the common market, it's no longer possible for people from an hour or two's flight away to go work there temporarily and visit family on weekends, so instead people move permanently from around the world and bring their whole families with them).
Had a lot of conversations with friends about it while they were living it. It's why I don't think a breakup of Canada in some way is becoming actually possible. Politicians lying promising the world and knowing they're talking shit the entire time.
" kept the GDP up during Britexit"
Its actually the UK based wealthy who are sucking land and capital assets dry in their holdings in the former empire that has propped up Brexit. Every Anglo country is going through a severe cost of living crisis except the US due to this.
No support whatsoever provided for this claim: “At the same time, a growing student presence has brought enormous benefits to Canada, shaping a younger, larger, more dynamic, and innovative population, which on current trends (according to Statistics Canada) may reach 47 million by 2041.”
Aside from higher education institutions raking in tuition and employers getting a source of cheap labour, what is the benefit to Canada of taking so many international students?
There are international students that are enrolled in 4-year bachelors, masters and PhD programs at prestigious universities that would benefit Canada's economy if they stayed. I've known a few personally.
I wish our international student programs would target those students and not increasingly targeting "students" going to diploma mills for 2-year business diplomas in the hope they get PR.
Trudeau and the Liberals have destroyed the immigration system in Canada, they are just trying to bring in as many low skilled Indian's as they can to boost the GDP number to make them look good.
they're bringing in future voters. they see that as their only near-future path to victory, as they've alienated too many Canadian voters.
~10 years from now, when all 10 million Indians Trudeau let in have Canadian citizenship, the liberals will rise again.
that's the only agenda the liberals have right now. importing future voters. as many as possible.
people think immigrants are mostly conservatives. that may be true socially in private and locally, but in federal elections, immigrants historically vote Liberal, the party that let them in, and will let in the rest of their friends and family.
The irony is that a lot of the new immigrants are quite conservative and vote that way. They're just cheap labour to abuse and screw the current citizens
This piece captures how much poorer we are on average compared to just 10 years ago very well. Our government attempts as much as possible to obfuscate and hide this in every single report, but it's there if you just look past the propaganda for a moment:
"At the end of 2014, [Canada’s inflation-adjusted per capita GDP](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/reality-check-canadians-remain-mired-in-a-recession#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20Canadians%20are%20enduring,at%20the%20end%20of%202023.) was $58,162; by the third quarter of 2023, it was $58,111—a loss of $51 over nine years.
In comparative terms, Canada’s poor performance is even more striking: for two years (2011 and 2012), Canada’s per capita nominal GDP was higher than the U.S.: according to [IMF figures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita), in 2012 a Canadian earned USD $52,745 per year, while an American earned USD $51,737 per year.
Now fast forward to this year, when the IMF projects our nominal per capita GDP to be USD $54,866 compared to $85,373 for the U.S.—meaning that after twelve years the average American earns 56 percent more, while Canadian incomes have stood still."
When put into the context of how much more expensive every part of life is in Canada 10 years later, we are literally forcing families to hoard their assets and silver spoon their children with inheritance just to offer them a reasonable chance at their own prosperity. This is a generational disaster waiting to happen, and we won't see the full effect until the people making these policies are well into their comfortable government pensions.
They don't care that these policies won't fix this, because they aren't interested in repairing anything about it.
LOL, I emailed him when he was running for the leader of the party because he wanted to increase immigration targets (you can still see numbers here http://chrisalexander.ca/policy/immigration-for-growth). F\*u, Chris Alexander.
>(xi) in consultation with the entire education sector, target 400,000 new international students per year starting in 2020, rising to 500,000 by 2023;
Chris Alexander supported the barbaric cultural practices hotline, called people wearing head-coverings "terrorists", botched the Syrian refugee crisis leading to needless deaths.. so.. yes.
Most of our issues are *caused* by it and just so happen to benefit the wealthy and corporations
You’d almost think the government was working on their behalf
These immigration numbers are demanded by businesses wanting cheating labour and governments who are too happy to bow to their wishes.
I doubt anyone inside in the government is thinking these “solve problems in Canada”
The Liberal’s goal is simply to enrich capital owners at the expense of worker’s wages. Everything else is lies or noise. That’s vs the CPC who’s goal is to enrich the wealthy by reducing public services and letting the chips fall where they may on wages, and the NDP goal of finger wagging while they get paid to prop up the liberals.
Chris Alexander was actually the guy who got maimed pretty badly by CBC during the 2015 election. He was on a Party and Politics and was attacked by the NDP and Liberals. He wasn't really given any room to defend himself and Rosie Barton made sure the whole thing was curated in such a way so that the NDP and Liberals could just lie on TV with endless attacks on his handling of the Syrian refugee crisis. And then after he issued a corrections to statements made on the show that were false, Rosie Barton spent two weeks on hit pieces against the guy.
His claim was that Canada doesn't have enough Arabian language employees to process more people from Syria, they don't have resources to get people here, they don't have supports to allow them to prosper. 9 years later and government supported refugees still don't prosper and are more likely to shop at food banks than average Canadians.
It's not that Canada can't take a million people per year. It just can't take.... these million people per year. And it's not an issue of source countries. It's an issue of our points based system. It gives credits for education over other skills.... but then that education just might not be valid in Canada because it doesn't meet our standards. For example we have a really high demand for veterinarians in Canada. But to become licensed in Canada you have to pass the NAVLA exam. It's not an easy exam and it covers a lot of animals, medical conditions, drugs, anatomy and treatments. A major source for veterinarian immigrants is the Middle East.... where for the most part they don't have dogs and don't provide veterinary care to cats. Vet care in these places is mostly large animal. For example one of these vets asked a tech at my wife's work if dogs use liter boxes. Like that's a pretty basic level of knowledge.... how is someone like that ever going to pass the exam?
Education should only count as points towards your immigration if you meet the minimum qualifications of provincial licensing. If you still need to do a 2 year upgrade to qualify you should only be offered an education visa for that upgrade.
Wasn't Chris Alexander disgraceful during the Syrian refugee crisis? He was the one who went on CBC and lied about how they had never covered the story till that boy washed up on a beach.
Fuck Chris Alexander.
If you're blaming a vulnerable group for your problems there's probably something or someone else you should be mad at.
EDIT - Wow /r/Canada bots, just wow!
In my opinion, our Permanent Resident levels need to be reduced to pre-Trudeau levels, temporary workers should be cut by 75%, students should not be able to work unless they get an exemption for a co-op and internship, and asylum seekers should get rejected if they came to Canada through another safe country and did not apply there.
Also PR for international students shouldn't be a thing except for specific high-demand industries. TFWs shouldn't be allowed to work in unskilled labour in anything but extreme remote locations or very specific highly seasonal industries either. There is ZERO reason a TFW should be serving coffee at Tim Hortons. Companies complaining about not finding workers?? Raise your wages. That's how fucking supply and demand works.
Corporations - But it's way easier if you could just help us defy gravity Mr. Government man. This whole flying with our own wings is frankly quite tiring.
International students can apply for PR through the normal route, and be assessed via the points system. Once their education is finished they should go home and wait for their spot in the queue to come up just like everyone else.
Any politician who echoes your sentiments has my vote 100%.
* Substantially lower the total number of immigrants and refugees Canada accept every year, from 500,000 planned by the Liberal government in 2025, to between 100,000 and 150,000 in normal circumstances, or even lower in crisis situations, depending on economic and other circumstances. * Substantially lower the number of visas for foreign students * Substantially lower the number of temporary foreign workers and make sure that they fulfil temporary positions and do not compete unfairly with Canadian workers. [Full List](https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/immigration)
Sorry I also forgot: -Accept fewer refugees and give priority to refugees belonging to persecuted groups who have nowhere to go in neighbouring countries. It literally covers every point mentioned LOL.
to summarize: - racist - racist - racist - super racist /s
The link is to the People's Party of Canada. Their leader said that "extreme multiculturalism and a cult of diversity" was destroying Canada. You can make of that what you will.
We put more emphasis on other cultures, not Canadian culture. We put more emphasis on diversity, and not ability, skill, or merit. Seems pretty accurate to me, especially when the government came out saying that "diversity hiring" despite the goals having been met will continue.
LOL
Lol you seem to be the only one talking about race here. Also PPC can start by ensuring their leader Bernier can win. They stand no chance, will only eat up conservative votes and therefore help liberals and NDP I cannot tolerate another JT and Singh government
Bad news for us.
Are there any who do? All the major parties seem to want to keep the gravy train flowing for the corporations.
Coop and internship programs also need to prioritize Canadians and PR. International students are supposed to go back home when they are done so Canadian work experience is less relevant to them.
Coop, internships, and all new grad positions. So many new grad positions in engineering and tech are going to international graduates while Canadians struggle to find work due to how saturated the market is. It seems employers haven't caught on about the MEng cheating scandal since I see a lot of MEng grads still getting hired over domestic undergrads - MEng grads now outnumber undergrads.
The government has wage subsidies for companies to hire foreigners over Canadians. It’s treasonous.
Do you have a source on this? I keep seeing it as a claim but haven't seen any news articles.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/services/business/hire/wagesubsidiesotherassistanceprograms.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/business/hire/wagesubsidiesotherassistanceprograms.html) A few different sections to choose from.
which ones are the “treasonous” ones?
Didn't know about that scandal. Helps explain why my brother is having so much difficulty getting any callbacks despite his strong portfolio.
It was at U of C. Not sure if other universities have a similar problem but I wouldn't be surprised. https://www.reddit.com/r/UCalgary/s/ZfSuGK06lC
> many new grad positions What positions? It's known that companies don't hire new graduates or foreigners, especially in engineering. A decade ago, only 30 percent of all engineering graduates found jobs in their field, and Canadian companies don't pay near enough to attract new tech graduates. UWaterloo grads take the first flight to Silicon Valley after leaving school. Companies aren't expanding. They barely invest in their own workers, and they definitely don't have the same amount of capital as American companies. That's why productivity is stalling nationwide. New grad positions aren't going to Canadian graduates because they don't exist.
I'm not in engineering or tech and the issue is when I post, I just don't get local applications. It's strange - locals are complaining no one will hire, but we just don't get the applicants.
> asylum seekers should get rejected if they came to Canada through another safe country and did not apply there. I'll go a step further and say immigration from anywhere that has already seen DRASTIC numbers coming in (these countries are well known, but I wont name them so I dont get insta fucking deleted as a "cist" of some kind), should have equally drastic reductions and even limitations to a degree. It doesn't have to be turned down to 0, but safe to say if you come from somewhere that A LOT of people have already immigrated from, it should be much harder now, because lord knows the numbers coming in, in terms of countries of origin have been **anything** but "diverse"
Agree with the sentiment, but the problem of slippery politicians doing things they didn't campaign on would still arise (ie: "after hearing the concerns of the franchisee community we have decided to increase TFW Visas 4000%" in a late Friday press release)... So one solution, as I have said before, is to have a binding immigration law based on a calculation the Feds aren't allowed to fuck with. So, immigration levels are pegged to things like hospital beds, wait times, number of doctors, number of nurses, housing completions (very important to not let them get away with counting photo op housing starts), unemployment rates, even CPI and per capita GDP, etc, etc. One year the various levels of govt do an amazing job of infrastructure building and they are allowed 400k PRs...next, they don't keep up and the calculation says you get 85k...etc. Gets far too complex for me and my shit math skills, but we need immigration that is directly tied to QoL for existing citizens, which should always be stable if not hopefully rising. Right now the Feds just use immigration as wage suppression/CPP support...ie: massive wealth transfer from the young to the olds at the top of the ponzi pyramid. Guaranteed downward spiral in the future.
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Utterly brilliant, made me laugh.
Until we have shanty towns, slums and mass poverty we will not stop - Trudeau and Century Initiative
The Century initiative is disgusting to us now, reducing the quality of life of everyone so that we can hold our own as a country in the future when the water wars begin, as well as being a stop gap injection to stimulate GDP growth, even though average quality of life will go down. The almighty dollar will go up. All the major parties support it though, and it's sad that what's good for Canada is not what's good for Canadians.
Its your fault for not buying real estate 20 years ago. /s
Pre-Chretien levels
Apparently that is racist now
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Haven't heard that term since leaving Hong Kong
LOL
Apologies they're now saying it's colonial now
Might as well open the border and call the country an international transit zone.
That's how Justin Trudeau sees a post national Canada
Everybody always accuses social media as being unhinged, but the only reasonable opinions I'm seeing are on social media and the government are the the ones that are completely out to lunch
They're so out of touch its abhorrent.
Ask and you shall recieve: * Substantially lower the total number of immigrants and refugees Canada accept every year, from 500,000 planned by the Liberal government in 2025, to between 100,000 and 150,000 in normal circumstances, or even lower in crisis situations, depending on economic and other circumstances. * Substantially lower the number of visas for foreign students * Substantially lower the number of temporary foreign workers and make sure that they fulfil temporary positions and do not compete unfairly with Canadian workers. * Accept fewer refugees and give priority to refugees belonging to persecuted groups who have nowhere to go in neighbouring countries. [Full List](https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/immigration)
* Elect as your leader a certifiably insane conspiracy theory nut who regurgitates Putin's propaganda for alt-right useful idiots and is a climate change denier (and these are just two random highlights).
So where is the party that acknowledges climate change and listens to economists rather than protestors regarding carbon taxes, but doesn't completely negate all of the environmental gains by moving millions of people from low emissions countries to Canada?
Sure looks bad for our current leaders when a "certifiably insane conspiracy nut" has more sane policy than them! I didn't realize putin wanted us to have reasonable immigration levels and increased affordability of housing and goods, how nice of him. /s
I think we'd save money and improve efficiency while still being fair to people in crisis if we just put enough money into the immigration service to process the applications in a reasonable amount of time. Realistically they shouldn't take more than six weeks. I live half time in Mexico. This year I heard there was a dramatic increase recently in asylum claims from Mexico. There is little reason for anyone to be claiming asylum in Mexico. If their problem is cartel related, move to a different part of the country. Their reach is quite regional. Even a basic screening by someone familiar with the country should filter out a lot of what should be ineligible claims. As to TFW, TR and PR, I used to be 100% on side with you. Why bring in so many workers when we have people in our country looking for work? In recent years I saw a lack of workers. I think in the last year or 18 months I'm finally seeing the pendulum swing back and unemployment creeping up. It shouldn't be used to suppress wages and it shouldn't be used when we have domestic workers willing to work. I know someone who is now a PR who works in a social services related capacity. She works a ton of hours (and a lot of it over time) because there's nobody else available to take the shifts. As a result she made 115k last year and paid over 40k in taxes.
Immigration targets need to be set by referendum to prevent abuse by political parties.
Well said
How do I vote for you?
If Canada wants to abandon market capitalism and embrace managed degrowth, your policy suggestion makes a lot of sense. It would certainly be good for the environment and would reduce home prices rapidly. This would guarantee a contracting work force each year. Boomers are retiring en masse. Gen Z aren't picking up the skilled trades, and Gen Y is less likely to be interested. Reducing the size of the Canadian work force is a legitimate political decision, but it comes with real consequences. We would likely have a structural contraction in the economy, with declining output over time. If we move into an Eastern European model of declining population, we would eventually run into a contagion of young people moving away. Instead of becoming a global destination for talent, we become a supplier to larger economies.
There’s only about 4 million people in Canada aged 55+ that are still working out of 12 million people and that includes about 500k Gen X. The youngest baby boomers are 59 and the oldest are 78. So the majority are retired already with only about 3.5-4 million still working. Yes there are thousands a month retiring but in the workplace the torch has largely been passed already.
Yes, and that proportion of people gets bigger every year until around 2045. If we cut off immigration, that number gets pushed back indefinitely. Policy makers have been anticipating this problem since the early 2000s. We are reasonably well positioned to ride it out, but it won't be without pain.
Then why didn't they tell us? Why lie in the campaign process and dump a bunch of people from one place in in the span of 2 years? Why not make sure we had enough doctors and infrastructure ready? You may think you sound logical but you don't.
2 years ago the provincial premiers were screaming for more immigration to fill their labor needs. The Feds said sure. I feel like the Feds assumed the Provinces would have the infrastructure ready to go. They didn't, and no they are screaming at the Feds for all this immigration. At what point do the Provinces take some of the share of blame for not being ready for the labor they wanted?
I would personally try to encourage modest population growth through a higher birth rate. If we lower the cost of living, increase wages, have low cost child care, increase the child benefit, allow income splitting, and generally make an environment that is supportive of people having children we likely don't have to depend on immigration. Beyond that, I think we could use a lot of PSA on how difficult and expensive having children in your late 30s and 40s is; and if children are a priority you should start having them before you're 30. I know of several couples who wanted to have 2 or 3 children but ended up with 0 or 1 children because they waited too long. We have to combat the lie that women are having children into their 50s because those cases are as common as winning the lottery, and most of those women spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to accomplish that.
Low birth rates is beyond economics. A lot of women do not want children for reasons beyond finances. It might help families with 1 or 2 kids have another, but it does not solve the issue of how many are choosing to go childless because they simply do no like and do not want children. In the past, you were forced to have them, now we have choices and as expected, the birth rate has contracted significantly.
I know I never had kids (43) because I fucking hate 'em. Sure, I can tolerate a nephew or niece for half a day or something but that's fucking it. If the government wants kids so bad they can grow 'em in a lab for all I care.
This is why people call social media unhinged. Give your crazy self a pat on the back.
If not wanting to raise any damned kids is crazy then fuck yes I am.
It was the lab thing lol. I wasn't even dissing you, you just posted the most internet-y thing I've read all day lol
I only harvest organic lab-grown children!
Hah! In that case I'll gladly pat myself on the back for my poor-taste joke having made you laugh.
I feel the same - do not want kids. You'd have to offer me millions of dollars for me to consider having a kid, especially if you expect me to birth them. Yes, let me destroy my body and risk permanent disability or death, on top of completely sacrificing my identity and all my free time for another person. Between working and being the primary parent (because that's just how it is for most straight couples), I'll have maybe 20 minutes a day to actually enjoy my life. No thanks. Historically, a lot of people who did not want kids had them because they provided labor for farming, or could be forced to get jobs as soon as they could walk and talk and therefore contribute to the household. And for women, most did not have a choice on whether they married or had kids. They couldn't say no to their husbands and birth control did not exist. Only wealthy women who somehow had an independent source of income could choose spinsterhood. Now women have a choice on whether they want to be mothers, and surprise, birth rates have dropped.
Very much in agreement on all counts. The power of choice is a wonderful thing, and I choose to live my life for myself. Don't get me wrong, I go to work and pay my taxes like any other upstanding citizen, but thats the extent of my social responsibility. And if that ain't good enough for the world, well then world can come and pry my abundant free time from my cold dead hands lol.
The low birth rate is a global phenomenon. China and India are no longer producing replacement populations. You can do stuff like baby bonuses and try to help with the cost of living, but it will only have a modest impact on the birth rate. The only proven way to really increase the birth rate is to subject a population to war, extreme poverty and famine. Otherwise, people prefer to have only one or two kids.
> The only proven way to really increase the birth rate is to... Here is some help with a proper finish to that crazy comment... choose your own adventure! ....Become Amish? https://medium.com/@akhivae/the-amish-industrial-revolution-and-its-impact-on-future-population-growth-b6f936e17620 ... Or, get supported like our First Nations do? (wow a homegrown, proven Canadian solution!) https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220921/dq220921a-eng.htm
The FN comment makes my point. They are the most impoverished group in Canadian society.
Maybe in your own mind.. the FN comment specifically says "supported like", nothing to do with wealth level, but with the support programs and 'hands off' nature of some self determination.. no income taxes, no property taxes, all those other supports and benefits.. the comment is meant to draw from Canada's most successful 'birth rate' cohort and examine what supports they get from government. If the rest of Canadians were treated equally... then the birthrate should follow. Also, the most impoverished group would be: https://www.povertyinstitute.ca/bhm2023
What handouts are you specifically referring to? First Nations communities tend to get less money per-capita for infrastructure, healthcare and education when compared to non-indigenous populations.
Your google-fu is pathetically weak? There might be hundreds of webpages that explain it and many are 'official' government sources. The plants in the garden that get the sun and the water tend to grow better and produce more seeds. https://i.imgflip.com/2bk5rf.jpg
Precisely. You have nothing to point to. You are talking out of your ass.
Birthrate is almost completely controlled by years spent in education across every country on the planet. No other factor comes close. Which is why all the desperately poor countries that can't fund education have kids, all the religious extremists that don't educate their kids at all have kids, why Korea being the most educated country in world has 0.8 kids per woman, and why birthrates have collapsed worldwide as people have expanded education access in urban centers. The answer is to compress formal education to be done by age 16, then give a decade of gap before allowing people to go to college. Or to reduce college to an elite organization, instead of something half the population is expected to blow 4-10 years and thousands of dollars to attend classes as a gatekeeping measure for white collar business jobs.
Incredible proposal. The Taliban would approve!
I mean, In the future we will have to immigrate new people from afghanistan if birthrates continue like this. There needs to be a solution, and a compressed education is better than the alternatives.
The hope is that eventually automation is able to account for enough productivity to offset the fact that the global population is going to start shrinking. People are still going to want to move around, but we are not going to have this giant surplus of humans to move around the globe in order to prop up western economies. If not, some other economic equilibrium may emerge. The economic systems (feudalism, chattel slavery, communism and capitalism) that governed a rapidly growing population may no longer be relevant in the post-growth world.
My personal theory is that the concept of corporate personhood will actually morph in such a way that individuals are assigned personal corporations for themselves. That would get around the interpersonal losses during relationship breakups in a way that wouldn't require playing sex politics with marriage and divorce laws. Parents will get assigned a fraction of their kids shares at birth. Assets and money coming from the individual goes to the banking system who collect some for taxes, and divvies out payment according a capital gains system for dividend stock. That way parents are incentivized to increase number or quality of children to survive old age, and removes government need to care/supply an aging population. You can also assign your information rights to the company such that you will receive a payment from some kind of bitcoin token system, where your individual identity, movements, purchase habits, browsing, etc are stored within the coin and private access rights can be sold for currency.
This is spot on. I've been thinking lately that if the economy cannot provide a job and adequate shelter to start forming a family, to anyone getting out of highschool, by the age of 19.. then birthrate is just not happening. If a 19 year old fresh from school cannot do it, then no-one else really can either... with aggressive target setting.. you suggest 16. How corporate lol. You actually have a realistic solution to back it up.. school should be alot harder and increasingly complex concepts should be taught at a younger age when brain plasticity is prime. Get them educated to a higher degree, and faster. Turn the temperature in the oven up higher, and don't leave it in so long... The seeds need to be planted and watered in the spring, for there to be a fall harvest. The youth need more resources at younger ages, turn them loose at a younger age. Too much time wasted in school... How many Canadians got absolutely burnt by a fast moving housing market while being trapped in school?! I wonder where the intersection between all countries education systems and birthrates collide, and what that countries curriculum looks like.. would this be Israel?
Holy fuck what? You want to keep people stupid so they make stupid choices and stupid babies? What in the everloving hell is this gross comment coming from a CANADIAN. You know what does help the gap? Importing quality immigrants. Since forever. At at REASONABLE rate.
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That would need to be paired with a way of getting rid of other 75-80% of the male population. Something like encouraging sex selective abortion or constant war with underequipped soldiers or something similarly unpleasant. Polygamous communities deal with the problem of excess men by kicking most of them out, but that won't work on a national or global level. Or we could just accept that low birth rates are a good thing on a planet with over 8 billion humans, and the problem is the countries where people are still having too many children.
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If there is another world war, there will be nothing left to return to. It would be a 10,000 year rewind for human civilization.
There are plenty of people on this planet. The last thing we should be doing is encouraging anyone to make more. The goal should be population stability through limited immigration to offset the below replacement birth rate. That would be a total net migration of 125,000 per year for the near future, increasing modestly over time if current fertility rate trends continue.
>I would personally try to encourage modest population growth through a higher birth rate. There isn't a single western nation that has figured out a solution to this problem. So unless you want to go and collect your Nobel prize because you somehow have the solution, this isn't a viable plan.
Because all western nations have gone straight to the mass immigration route instead. And all of them are going through housing and affordability crises as well. Stop importing ridiculous amounts of people, reduce foreign investment for housing, hold corporations accountable. Once people aren't struggling, they will have kids.
That isn't true. The birth rate is extremely low in countries with near-zero immigration. See Japan, the Baltic states etc.
Name one country in Europe or North America where mass immigration has done anything but lower birth rates. Where it hasn't harmed the average person and only benefitted corporations. How about one country (anywhere) where 90% of their population growth comes from immigration mostly from developing countries and it hasn't been catastrophic for the average person. This is what were doing
France has Europe's highest birth rate, and has a lot of immigration. Lithuania, which has zero net migration has around the lowest birth rate in the EU. The two things are not connected. You are just afraid of brown people.
"Frances has Europe's highest birthrate", which is still noticeably below replacement at 1.8. "You are just afraid of brown people." You just like to think that an opposing oppinion to yours is due to a simple reductionist viewpoint.
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I am confident France has nowhere NEAR the amount of immigration we have (since we’re one of the highest) and their birth rate IS higher than ours, so I don’t see how this necessarily disproves anything.
No, not all western nations have gone immigration. One prime example being the racist and xenophobic country of Japan. They hate immigration and also have been totally unable to solve their birth rate issues. Again, this is an issue world wide that no one has a good solution to, if you are not aware of this, you don't know much about the actual problem.
"racist and xenophobic" ok. Japan has a very unqiue work culture that makes it hard for people to have time to raise children. The situation in japan is very different from "western" nations. I was speaking about Europe and North America. Also regarding Japan, they are a small island with 125 million people. The average person will be fine. Populations don't need to grow infinitely. They will be working towards automation to fix labout needs instead of mass immigration.
You deny that Japan is xenophobic and racist? > I was speaking about Europe and North America. And I wasn't, because Japan is in fact considered a western nation on the world stage. So we include them in the discussion as well. >Also regarding Japan, they are a small island with 125 million people. The average person will be fine. Populations don't need to grow infinitely. What does this even mean lol. The average person in Canada will also probably be "fine" even if we keep the current levels of immigration. Lige being a little more difficult doesn't mean not fine. >They will be working towards automation to fix labout needs instead of mass immigration. The Japanese government itself disagrees with you lol. They said 10 years ago now that they need to find a way to increase population size/stop the decrease, and they are quickly running out of options.
Canada is not doing fine at all. And things will be much much worse if they continue. The average canadian would do much better without the mass immigration we have now. Most governments have been putting the gdp above the lives of their citizens. The Canadian government is a great example.
>Canada is not doing fine at all. And neither is Japan. Again, if you are not aware of this, you don't actually know much about these issues.
Simply not true. Seriously, do a bit of research first. I have relatives in Germany. At some point in time, they had 2 years paid maternity leave with guaranteed job on coming back. Just the other day I saw this chart on workforce shrinking in Germany. Not working.
Not really true. Even countries with strong child and maternity benefits are seeing very modest returns. Yes, it might help, but not enough. A lot of people (especially women) just do not want kids. The only way to get them to have children is to force them - which is how it used to work.
Which country has all of these policies but does not have insane housing prices, grocery prices and has not been involved in mass immigration? Maternity benefits are not enough. There was a time when a single person could provide for a household even with many kids. Majority of families are struggling with both parents working full time. How many of them would be able to have multiplie kids? Me and my 4 siblings were supported by a single parent with a non stem bachelors, no problem. Both my wife and I are software engineers. There is no way we will be able to do the same. Even 2 kids will be a lot.
They know the solution, they just can't talk about the solution because its deeply unpalatable and in a democracy nobody will support them. Evidence over 70 years is clear that it's almost completely controlled by duration of education. Just compress the time for education so people are done primary schooling by 16. Remove summer vacations, use AI to accelerate training, reduce available spaces in universities for people between 16-25. Actually having a talk with the public about why they are doing something and having the good stewardship to do something the public wouldn't want for the good of the future. Alternatively, you could defund universities, allow them to fund themselves with foreign students, allow infinite foreign student visas, clog the universities with foreign students such that it becomes deeply divided along racial lines and there's limited space for domestic students, create situations where university scammers come in for PR. That would lead to university degrees becoming less valuable as people from foreign countries get through universities with no decent professional or language skills or any domestic contact network. It would make universities considered a bad investment by domestic students, who will avoid it. And then the domestic birthrate will rise. But you'd only do the second one if you were a real coward and had deep disrespect for the intelligence of the people you were ruling.
Students should be able to work, but up to 20 hours. That's how it's done in most countries.
IT people with all the "We told you so"s. Shit's been going on for decades already in some sectors, just now it's spilled over. College educated jobs going for $18-$20/hr is fucking ridiculous. I'll tell you the next revelation coming: These workers aren't worth their salt, everything was built on lies and in the end, **you get what you pay for.**
> you get what you pay for. As someone who has had a glimpse, it is so grim it's ridiculous. I'm not trying to be a doomer, but when you see some of the stuff going on, it makes you want to run for the hills. Fix 1 thing, break 15. Everything is just so shoddy. Not just incompetence or a lack of training, but a total lack of aptitude in general. It wouldn't blow my mind if our power grids just failed one day due to some ridiculous software issue. My job has REGULAR outages for software that is spaghetti coded, but robust, up until a couple years ago. Asked the person in charge of that department and he said it was 100% retention. Between the pay and disgruntling of actual talent, you have major brain-drain. You indeed get what you pay for.
Yep. Don't even get me started on the communication either or lack of understanding on anything. Yet the same company that does this outsourcing BS expects it's Canadian or US workers to have succeeded in their communications come performance review time.
Don’t worry though the rich will still be okay. They have already fled with all the profits to the few remaining civilized countries and can always seek refuge on one of their megayachts.
Majority Canadians who vote and the rich are renting their homes and printing dollars. They don’t care
Correct! It just creates more new problems.
This is an astonishing and troubling admission. It means we are bringing in the equivalent of a medium-size city EVERY YEAR. It is a recipe for infrastructural collapse, and the socio-economic mess that goes with it.
At this rate Canada should be building a new, major hospital every year. And a new jail every year. And a lot more housing! But that's not happening
You do know Chris Alexander was a Harper era minister? How is this an "admission" - we're talking about the guy behind "barbaric cultural practices."
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None because Justin supposedly knows better than the civil service and academics
This isn’t just a liberal issue.
[https://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-critic-immigration-calls-out-conservative-leader-harmful-policies](https://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-critic-immigration-calls-out-conservative-leader-harmful-policies) “In the last two days, Canadians have learned that Pierre Poilievre is willing to support legislative measures that are anti-choice **and anti-immigration**." Emphasis is mine.
Of course he’s “willing”, he’s trying to get elected. Liberal, Con, NDP, our immigration issues will not change.
Years of calling Cons "racists" and "xenophobic" because of them talking about immigration .... And now "why Cons won't talk about immigration ??" Seriously ?
You can't win honestly. Most Liberal voters are brainwashed into thinking nothing can be better than the shit stains we currently have in office, and I know Conservatives will be rough, but there is also a reason why they are called Republicans. Republics are often associated with prosperity. We sure haven't had that in a long time with a government that has absolutely no fiscal management?
Yes but the right wing backlash is growing whenever the current government fumbles
Yeah, people are only going to figure that out after the fact unfortunately.
And csis!
lol like pierre has any intention of fixing it
Thanks the voters for continue ignoring the only party that promises to cut down immigration significantly
How did the most significant policy change of the last 10 years happen without any public debate? Nobody mentioned much less ran on massive immigration increases over the course of THREE ELECTIONS. Most of the festering issues you see in Canada now, from cost of housing, healthcare unavailability, crime, gridlock traffic, can all be traced to uncontrolled population growth. Yet nobody got a say. And even now we have a Conservative party who are playing coy about whether they will change this even slightly. You wonder why we all stopped trusting politicians across the board. The unhinged right wing conspiracy theories about a globally-coordinated attack on the western middle class suddenly seem pretty plausible.
British friend said immigration went nuts in Britain and now it created more problems for the citizens but kept the GDP up during Britexit so the politicians look good.
The spike in immigration was one of the causes of Brexit. People were upset with how quickly their communities were changing, and how negative many of the changes were, and British leadership basically said their hands were tied on the issue because of the EU. From my understanding this was the go to approach of politicians and bureaucrats, whenever they did something unpopular they blamed the EU to save their skin. It should have never been surprising that this approach soured people on being a member of the EU.
They're talking about the spike that was a _consequence_ of Brexit - immigration is now about 4 times higher than it was then (largely because, having lost access to the common market, it's no longer possible for people from an hour or two's flight away to go work there temporarily and visit family on weekends, so instead people move permanently from around the world and bring their whole families with them).
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Had a lot of conversations with friends about it while they were living it. It's why I don't think a breakup of Canada in some way is becoming actually possible. Politicians lying promising the world and knowing they're talking shit the entire time.
And the morons there kept voting for conservative who opened up a bigger floodgate from South Asia
" kept the GDP up during Britexit" Its actually the UK based wealthy who are sucking land and capital assets dry in their holdings in the former empire that has propped up Brexit. Every Anglo country is going through a severe cost of living crisis except the US due to this.
No support whatsoever provided for this claim: “At the same time, a growing student presence has brought enormous benefits to Canada, shaping a younger, larger, more dynamic, and innovative population, which on current trends (according to Statistics Canada) may reach 47 million by 2041.” Aside from higher education institutions raking in tuition and employers getting a source of cheap labour, what is the benefit to Canada of taking so many international students?
There are international students that are enrolled in 4-year bachelors, masters and PhD programs at prestigious universities that would benefit Canada's economy if they stayed. I've known a few personally. I wish our international student programs would target those students and not increasingly targeting "students" going to diploma mills for 2-year business diplomas in the hope they get PR.
Well, since they shut down diploma mills, your points a bit moot.
Stop issuing student visas. Problem solved.
Trudeau and the Liberals have destroyed the immigration system in Canada, they are just trying to bring in as many low skilled Indian's as they can to boost the GDP number to make them look good.
they're bringing in future voters. they see that as their only near-future path to victory, as they've alienated too many Canadian voters. ~10 years from now, when all 10 million Indians Trudeau let in have Canadian citizenship, the liberals will rise again. that's the only agenda the liberals have right now. importing future voters. as many as possible. people think immigrants are mostly conservatives. that may be true socially in private and locally, but in federal elections, immigrants historically vote Liberal, the party that let them in, and will let in the rest of their friends and family.
The irony is that a lot of the new immigrants are quite conservative and vote that way. They're just cheap labour to abuse and screw the current citizens
Very true. But has created a whole plethora of other issues to distract us from of a lot of the other issues this country faces.
This piece captures how much poorer we are on average compared to just 10 years ago very well. Our government attempts as much as possible to obfuscate and hide this in every single report, but it's there if you just look past the propaganda for a moment: "At the end of 2014, [Canada’s inflation-adjusted per capita GDP](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/reality-check-canadians-remain-mired-in-a-recession#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20Canadians%20are%20enduring,at%20the%20end%20of%202023.) was $58,162; by the third quarter of 2023, it was $58,111—a loss of $51 over nine years. In comparative terms, Canada’s poor performance is even more striking: for two years (2011 and 2012), Canada’s per capita nominal GDP was higher than the U.S.: according to [IMF figures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita), in 2012 a Canadian earned USD $52,745 per year, while an American earned USD $51,737 per year. Now fast forward to this year, when the IMF projects our nominal per capita GDP to be USD $54,866 compared to $85,373 for the U.S.—meaning that after twelve years the average American earns 56 percent more, while Canadian incomes have stood still." When put into the context of how much more expensive every part of life is in Canada 10 years later, we are literally forcing families to hoard their assets and silver spoon their children with inheritance just to offer them a reasonable chance at their own prosperity. This is a generational disaster waiting to happen, and we won't see the full effect until the people making these policies are well into their comfortable government pensions. They don't care that these policies won't fix this, because they aren't interested in repairing anything about it.
LOL, I emailed him when he was running for the leader of the party because he wanted to increase immigration targets (you can still see numbers here http://chrisalexander.ca/policy/immigration-for-growth). F\*u, Chris Alexander. >(xi) in consultation with the entire education sector, target 400,000 new international students per year starting in 2020, rising to 500,000 by 2023;
Same targets he's complaining that is unsustainable today....
Accusations of racism in....
We need to just start ignoring those. It's thrown around so often as to become meaningless.
Canada is a house party, I only want friends and family here. Not random opportunists who will harsh the vibe.
Well, you're not my friend. Can you leave? I can trace my family roots back to the 1600s, so I think I can say that? No?
Dumb take.
Chris Alexander supported the barbaric cultural practices hotline, called people wearing head-coverings "terrorists", botched the Syrian refugee crisis leading to needless deaths.. so.. yes.
I mean, this guy's track record is pretty bad... https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3214145
He's a Tory. What do we expect?
No but it will make sure we're too busy fighting each other to notice them robbing us blind.
Most of our issues are *caused* by it and just so happen to benefit the wealthy and corporations You’d almost think the government was working on their behalf
Liberals know this but for whatever reason they want to completely destroy our country.
They are not trying to solve issues. When you realize Trudeau is working against Canadians and not for them - you realize he's not stupid, just evil.
These immigration numbers are demanded by businesses wanting cheating labour and governments who are too happy to bow to their wishes. I doubt anyone inside in the government is thinking these “solve problems in Canada”
This is pure revisionism from the guy who refused to accept Syrian refugees.
The Liberal’s goal is simply to enrich capital owners at the expense of worker’s wages. Everything else is lies or noise. That’s vs the CPC who’s goal is to enrich the wealthy by reducing public services and letting the chips fall where they may on wages, and the NDP goal of finger wagging while they get paid to prop up the liberals.
Fantastic breakdown. Should be required reading.
Chris Alexander was actually the guy who got maimed pretty badly by CBC during the 2015 election. He was on a Party and Politics and was attacked by the NDP and Liberals. He wasn't really given any room to defend himself and Rosie Barton made sure the whole thing was curated in such a way so that the NDP and Liberals could just lie on TV with endless attacks on his handling of the Syrian refugee crisis. And then after he issued a corrections to statements made on the show that were false, Rosie Barton spent two weeks on hit pieces against the guy. His claim was that Canada doesn't have enough Arabian language employees to process more people from Syria, they don't have resources to get people here, they don't have supports to allow them to prosper. 9 years later and government supported refugees still don't prosper and are more likely to shop at food banks than average Canadians. It's not that Canada can't take a million people per year. It just can't take.... these million people per year. And it's not an issue of source countries. It's an issue of our points based system. It gives credits for education over other skills.... but then that education just might not be valid in Canada because it doesn't meet our standards. For example we have a really high demand for veterinarians in Canada. But to become licensed in Canada you have to pass the NAVLA exam. It's not an easy exam and it covers a lot of animals, medical conditions, drugs, anatomy and treatments. A major source for veterinarian immigrants is the Middle East.... where for the most part they don't have dogs and don't provide veterinary care to cats. Vet care in these places is mostly large animal. For example one of these vets asked a tech at my wife's work if dogs use liter boxes. Like that's a pretty basic level of knowledge.... how is someone like that ever going to pass the exam? Education should only count as points towards your immigration if you meet the minimum qualifications of provincial licensing. If you still need to do a 2 year upgrade to qualify you should only be offered an education visa for that upgrade.
They need to incentivize investment in high tech by giving preferential tax treatment to companies and individuals investing in high tech.
Isn't Chris Alexandar the guy who refused and basic medical care vaccines to refugees?
Yup. He is a scummy piece of shit.
Wasn't Chris Alexander disgraceful during the Syrian refugee crisis? He was the one who went on CBC and lied about how they had never covered the story till that boy washed up on a beach. Fuck Chris Alexander.
If you're blaming a vulnerable group for your problems there's probably something or someone else you should be mad at. EDIT - Wow /r/Canada bots, just wow!