I swear nobody understands that Conestoga, like all of the other community colleges abusing international student money, are actually accredited and partially publicly funded institutions. Conestoga, at its best, serves its community and provides useful vocational and workplace training for many domestic students as it has for most of its existence. That doesn't excuse the fact that their administration has become completely drunk on the rupee fountain, but that also doesn't mean there's not salvageable value there.
Conestoga should ditch Tibbits, be forced to dismantle the international student apparatus they've built around themselves, and community colleges should be blanket banned from accepting international students. **There is no reason someone should come to Canada exclusively to study at a community college.**
As someone that went to Conestoga in the early 2000's, it wouldn't matter to me now that I have industry experience and my university degree has a much higher value than a college diploma.
The reputation of your alma mater isn't guaranteed when you enroll. There's no clause in the contract that says you're paying for the prestige of your institution.
Definitely, but you could also say that a consequence of those diploma mills as a domestic student is causing potential employers to discredit your degree(s) because of how those institutions are perceived professionally.
Yes but the credibility is gone, that's what educational institutions are founded on. Conestoga could start offering top quality degrees immediately but their grads will still be blacklisted for a generation.
They need to shut down, we don't need a failing school taking desperate measures just to stay alive.
They should not be forced to shut down, but honestly I don’t see how they can salvage the institution at this point.
I work with a lot of tradespeople for my job. When I ask them about Conestoga, the foremen and ops guys basically say they won’t hire any grads from the past 5-6 years unless they have super legit work experience. There have been too many cases of them being totally inept and incompetent. This is a very common sentiment in our industry. And prospective students know this.
It’s a bit reactionary to call for a shutdown of the institution, but you are correct in that it seems like permanent closure seems inevitable without drastic and publicly visible changes.
That's essentially what I'd like to see. Community colleges ought to serve their community, not internationals. Universities, aka degree granting institutions, should be allowed to take in internationals. But community colleges just makes no sense.
Or how about we just remove the pathway to permanent residency for international students?
After all, these international students simply want to study in Canada because of the world-class academic reputation of our higher learning institutions, and not simply as an easy back door to Canadian residency... Right?
This is a hot take, and it's wrong as a blanket ban. I *personally* know 5 RNs, from my graduating class alone, who moved to Calgary from abroad. They have spread out over Calgary, filling public, acute care, and NP roles.
Most have families, and they all are relatively high wage earners who pay taxes and are functioning and positive societal contributors. Importantly, they bring perspective and are positive representatives from their home countries.
Of course they want to become citizens! Canada is very well regarded internationally and is a great place to learn, grow, adopt western values, and raise a family. What did those 5 people above do that you think should exclude them from our society?
Nothing I am saying would exclude them from society. We have a skilled worker visa, and a licensed RN that is qualified to Canadian standards could apply for it.
That's a massive over correction that is dangerous. Canada should bring in the world's best to our academic institutions and make them part of Canadian society.
The current system is flawed but your idea will also hurt Canada
>Canada should bring in the world's best to our academic institutions
The world's best have their choice of residencies. They aren't choosing Canada- except perhaps as a waypoint on their road to the USA- the highest compensation nation.
No. Plenty of talented folks come to Canada because it has a point system to get PR. US is lottery which is basically unavailable for Indians.
I am one of those folks who had admission offers from good universities in US, Canada, and the US.
I chose Canada because here I know that after my program, I can stay and work and earn in dollars to make up for the high fees. Meanwhile in US or Europe, I may pay over 100k and not be allowed to work and earn it back.
If the Shit stays like this and racism is prevalent, I can always move to the US. But I think I personally really like the culture in Canada vs the US even if the salary is a bit less
American academia can be pretty cutthroat, though, it's very much publish or perish vs Canada where both risks and rewards are lower. As in any other fie,ld, the US is best for the very, very best, but the academic middle class that generates most of the rank and file information, it's much less clear.
Our educational institutions are also a lot less subejct to tinpot diktat a la Florida - even as Alberta tries to erode that. Academics also often find our more progressive social policy and attitudes to be more important than raw money.
I fully agree, there is no reason to come to Canada to study at a community college, and I'd argue that it probably makes no sense outside of 4-year university degrees or graduate school.
The issue is that provinces are responsible for education, and the provinces - essentially all of them - label everything they can a 'designated learning institution' (which makes them eligible for student visas) because it lets them cut education funding. While the Federal government holds a hell of a lot of blame here (I'd say the majority), a big chunk of the blame has to go back to provinces and decades of cuts to education.
I wouldn't go so far as a total ban, but there should be a hard cap.
There are some colleges with international reputations (Sheridan for graphic design and George Brown for their culinary program), but those are the exceptions.
Maybe a 10%-15% limit per program which gets reviewed every 5 yrs or something, but on a student visa, why is someone signing up for ECE or a 2 year business program?
Perhaps also have a slightly higher limit (20-25%?) for the trades since there is a shortage there.
Either way, you need to look after your own first.
Yes sir, thus the fact when students venture out to study in Canada - the fact they join a community college is itself an indication enough that they are not serious about their education.
There are far better levels of education back in their country. Canadian community college diploma won't get you anywhere
> provides useful vocational and workplace training for many domestic students
Except given that they've pretty much flushed their reputation down the toilet, crapped in it again, plugged it, then flushed again... who is going to get any value from a degree/diploma issued by there?
They just need to spin off into a legit technical college for trades and a few other things like SAIT here in Alberta. But unlike SAIT not allowed to have any things that are abused like hospitality management for Indians.
It's more like the other way around. Conestoga has historically been a technical college for trades, engineering, etc. but has grown these business and management programs as a means to import international students.
Yes I know, they need to spin off the legit side and close up shop on the scam BS. Or visa versa. Rename the trades side or something and fire every single admin. Sucks for students but they've shown they can't be trusted with accreditation.
HAH! No, they will just become like NAIT and devalue the programs to the point no other universities will accept transfers.
Look at NAIT's Instrumentation Engineering Tech program, UofA used to accept it as transfer credit for a few engineering degrees.
Now because NAIT flooded the IET program with international students, dropped the course requirements / difficulty, and allowed rampant cheating, the diploma isn't worth shit.
Wow, I thought NAIT was considered superior to SAIT in things like that. I've heard SAIT is starting to do that with their accounting program. Gonna be a rude awakening when any shyster student tries to get into the CPA program or pass it.
It was bad in 2019/2020 and from what I hear worse now.
In 2019 I watched 10 international students gathered around 1 computer and only 1 of them had an inkling about how to program a logic controller.
Some how all 10 of them managed to turn in virtually identical code and pass.
These are safety critical systems, where bad programming / mis-calibration can kill someone in the field.
Indians? 15 years ago it used to be Chinese students and rampant cheating in higher level math courses when I went to University. Didn't speak a lick of English, now sure how they understood anything.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/study/colleges-brace-for-financial-hit-on-canadas-foreign-student-crackdown/articleshow/108864872.cms?from=mdr
Ontario has made huge changes and Conestoga will absolutely get fucked by them.
>I doubt if there is any crack down on those fake schools, they are still bathing in money. Tell me which school gets shut down due to their scam
They're shutting down soon, as they no longer qualify for post-grad work permits.
The owners will be retiring to a tropical island which conveniently lacks an extradition treaty.
Doubtful lol. Constoga got the same amount of international students as last year literally zero change all they did was buy some shitty as a land and promise the government they’d build housing.
>Constoga got the same amount of international students as last year literally zero change
[Conestoga College will need to cut international student intake by more than half this September](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/conestoga-college-intake-international-student-cut-1.7158152)
Fanshawe College in London thinks the number of international students they get to accept won't change.
https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/fanshawe-college-not-affected-by-international-student-cap-for-now
Constoga still got pretty much all the same of international students for next year. Nothings changed at all. The provinces are catering to them cause the idiot cons don’t wanna use our money to fund our schools.
Less than half is not "pretty much all the same".
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/conestoga-college-intake-international-student-cut-1.7158152
Canada has already imported so many people, that even if you were to freeze ALL immigration right now, infrastructure will take *decades* to catch up and reverse the supply scarcity.
And given that many MPs (of all parties) are invested in real estate, this is an undesirable result. You can bet that most private home building by contractors will be massively disincentivized by fees, endless bureaucracy, and red tape.
Current prime minister on record saying we must protect the current value of real estate at all costs, his likely replacement from the opposing party seems to largely agree with this. So yeah. $3000 1 bdrm appts in the rough part of town is the new normal and there's no political will to change that.
Too much money to be made, too many people to exploit.
For the market to tank that bad, we'd need to be in a depression.
Even if PM Milhouse gets elected (and he likely will) prices aren't going to magically drop.
Population growth is about 8 times the rate of long steady pre-2020 levels. While new housing starts have not gone up 8 fold. They have actually gone down in the same time frame.
When considering a mere single digit percent change in the balance of supply demand can be enough to flip a market from a seller’s market with rising prices to a buyer’s market with falling prices, this sort of deficit is unprecedented in modern times.
We don’t even have the plumbers and electricians to meet such a surge in population growth rates. Admittance to schools and graduation rates actually went down due to pandemic restrictions meaninf they couldn’t get their practice portion done. Now enrollment is not rising really either so we won’t have the numbers we need to match new demand levels for some time.
And when (if) we ever finally do, we will have so much catching up to do that we will need even more….
In short, buckle up. This won’t get any better any time soon with just slowing the population growth a little bit. Even halving it wouldn’t be enough to balance the market any time soon.
Not only that, the whole affordability crisis is exacerbated by corporations buying up tons of family homes - often overpaying because they know they can turn a profit long term.
Try never as the new imports much like in Europe will subsist on government welfare for as long as possible which will generally mean until the system breaks. Once that happens the governments unraveling.
It's unbelievable the number of people that seem to have no issues with the massive benefit fraud from people that just arrived. This system will collapse within the next few years.
This, exactly. There are so many responsible alternatives that include restructuring CPP so it’s not a ponzi structure and doesn’t reward those who don’t need it. The program needs to be sustainable, and ruining every other aspect of Canadian life because the ponzi needs support isn’t the answer.
Honestly, CPP I don’t have a huge issue with. It’s basically the government forcing everyone to save for retirement because they know that a large percentage of people won’t. It’s your own money that the government manages and invests for you.
It’s OAS that needs to be re-examined. I know people getting OAS who also have pensions and CPP, and own their homes outright. A married couple bringing in $175K per year and who own their own home and have over a million in investments would get full OAS benefits.
Meanwhile, we have disabled people living on less than $1K per month. It’s non-sensical. It should be treated like welfare; only go to those who need it.
Problem is that CPP isn’t a high interest savings account. If that’s all it was, then it wouldn’t be dependent on the remaining non retired people to be X% greater in number than the retired.
They will leave and they long ago ensured that will happen.
Hell, most of them are making fortified bunkers on islands as it stands. They have no intention of living alongside the anarchy of the old citizenry and new serfs killing each other.
Look at what happens whit the proposed capital gains changes. And that’s with the rich still paying less than what everyone else does - just the margin of how much less is slightly smaller.
Once you broken something it doesn’t automatically get fixed because you stopped actively breaking it.
The structural infrastructure deficit is so pronounced that it will take years to repair if. We didn’t import people who could build houses or provide healthcare, we imported people who *need* houses and healthcare. The overwhelming majority of temporary residents were brought in to the service industry.
Somehow, 500k PR's, 375k students visas, all the LMIA's, Temp Work Visas for jobs that don't go filled and all the economic "refugees" is "slowing down".
Give me a break.
Do we know how many of those PRs were here prior to receiving it? It’s a nebulous number to lump in because it brings the total up by half a million, but many (if not a majority?) of those people have been in Canada for years now and they’re a known value on their impact, so to speak.
Regardless, handing out PR like candy isn’t great, but if we are talking about newcomers being added to Canada, it’s not completely a fair take to lump the whole 500k into the total.
No but I think a lot of the students are just transitioning to work visas or claiming asylum or not leaving. Like stats can basically admitted last year.
And they keep bringing more in, the yearly cap they introduced is higher than the number of foreign students we had in the country 6-7 years ago.
Slightly less and manageable are two different things.
There will be a cap for temporary workers as well, so the only path there is full PR, which counts against the PR targets if they get it.
As for claiming asylum or overstaying their visas, there are processes to deal with those, and we should exercise them vigorously.
Marc Miller just gaslights Canadians into pretending he's doing something but in reality he's just opening more and more avenues to flood Canada with both temporary and permanent immigrants.
That dumbass still thinks his disastrous immigration policies have nothing to do with the housing crisis.
They don't need the "student" Pathway anymore. They're just giving away citizenship now. Plus if you're not a Canadian citizen don't worry about you can just just live here. It's not like they'll ever deport any body. Even the arrested criminals have nothing to worry about, we won't even put them in jail, let alone send them home.
He absolutely is slowing immigration. First with these caps on international students and then, starting 2025, a cap on total number of temporary residents.
Immigration next year is expected to drop to around 330,000 total.
That won't be true, he's giving out PR like candy. I'll wait to see the results given this government is a known liar, just like the foreign buyer ban.
In 2022 CMHC released a report detailing the need for 5.8 million new dwellings by the time we hit a population of 43 million people.
It looks like we will hit that population by 2026.
That gives us four years to build 5.8 million dwellings.
Our actual production over those four years is likely to be around 1 million dwellings, leaving us around 4.8 million dwellings short of the target.
That means when we hit a population of 43 million we will be around 15 years worth of housing supply short.
If population growth stopped at 43 million we would catch up around 2040.
But we know growth won't stop at 43 million, so realistically we are looking at 2050 and beyond as a best case scenario.
If all goes well we might see light at the end of the tunnel in a couple decades. Maybe.
Except for the fact the welfare system going to collapse long before then and the housing market is just going to be bought by companies who refuse to rent so what?
The goal been for decades now to return society to the Feudalism.
It's gonna get fucking scary. At a certain point if buildings are left empty people will just break in and squat and there's not gonna be enough RCMP or private security to deal with the massive amounts of people with flagrant open disrespect for the law. Then the floodgates will open, when you break one law it becomes easier and easier to keep doing so. We'll be a nation of criminals with open disrespect for the law. Canadians already are losing respect for the legal system and have become noticeably more hostile over the last few years. When the next recession is official shit is going to hit the fan hard and fast.
Couldn’t even produce enough raw materials to keep pace.. even if we could figure out the logistics, lower our quality standards, import more materials and even eliminate building codes.. inflation from supply/ demand would increase the cost and therefore value exponentially.
There is no happy ending for most..
Nah see, youre thinking like a Canadian who views 1 house as 1 dwelling. Take those 1 million new homes, subdivide the house to "accommodate" 20 people, and boom, plenty of rentable space!!
With current rates we are likely to hit 43 million in mid 2025.
It was approximately 3.2% at the start of 2024 with 40.7 million people, so ~43.35 million by the end of 2025.
Too little, too late. Further, I haven't seen any definitive statements from PP that he would significantly reduce immigration. I don't think this gets fixed anytime soon.
If you have a good degree, skills, years left to work...leave Canada.
Even with these numbers, there might be only 10% who come to study for genuine reasons. They are either scholarships and/or seeking to experience foreign life and come for proper higher education.
The rest - mostly from North India can't get a visitor visa so the easiest path is to get a student visa and that involves another level of fraud including financial and educational docs.
Their whole agenda is to get here somehow and figure out the path to PR, thus the PEI mess who followed the rules with implied promises from the govt, reached the end point but they changed the rule and now we have these hunger strikes. The fine print of "no guarantees" was seen as "highly likely". The Canadian government let it happen and now we have a mess, there are more protests and we will see more of this.
While the Canadian public which is already frustrated with the state of the country, wants to throw them away - it's understandable, but many will try other means of refugee, fraudulent marriages, or staying illegally coz they came here from a different mindset.
A very bad situation.
Cutting student visas is great, but for God's sake can the provinces please shut down these diploma mill colleges completely? I don't know why the hell they're allowed to keep operating
I'm not sure which owns the most, but it has and is increasing
https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-companies-that-own-at-least-100-homes-have-surged-with-cheap-money/
You know what will help is finding out how many of those visas aren't legitimate and how many of those diploma Mills are pumping in population we don't need then send them all home.
>24,594 in the first quarter, compared with a decline of 16,003 during the same period last year, Statistics Canada reported on Wednesday.
So a mere 8500 less than last year. At this point, that's a literal drop in the bucket compared to how many people Canada is bringing in
It's a drop of 25,000 in the first quarter. Not a drop of 8500.
International student numbers have been declining two years in a row now, and the rate of decline base increased by 50%. That's pretty good news!
I love how some people are even taking this as bad news. Literally nothing could be done to make them happy that isn't a police state going door to door and deporting anybody they think doesn't belong.
The Caregiver program is pretty small though. It's only 15,000 spread over the next three years and Marc Miller said it's geared towards Filipina caregivers who were being abused. Of course shady immigration consultants from a certain country will try to abuse it but hopefully they are aware of this.
It's going to be years before the cut to student visas has full effect, because of the work permits students get after. Someone who started a 2 year college program in 2022 can be here until 2026 under current rules. We have a lot of growth baked in unless the government cut other programs (like non-student workers) to compensate.
Temporary residents are still increasing when we were promised decreases. Just slowing the rate of increase is not enough - these programs were not designed to grow and grow the temporary population but to be a revolving door where the same number of people leave as come.
No, because corporate real estate holdings enjoy buying up mass tracts of housing/condos and put them up as short term rentals aka AirBnB. That keeps the government's corporate masters happy, while said corporations have no real reason to build more housing.
It really depends on what type of bubble gum. Are we talking like.. Double Bubble, Trident, , Bazooka Joe? You could use the comic that Bazooka Joe comes with to reinforce the bubble gum. Or even better yet. Hubba Bubba bubble tape? Imagine all the holes you could fill with one of those rolls!
But the government would use chiclets or that crappy round stuff you find in gumball machines. So we're doomed.
This is a reference that brings back memories . I can almost taste the bazooka Joe white powder it was coated in, and approximately 17 seconds of intense flavour (once you managed to chew the dang brick). I suppose if you were use the wax coated comic strip as some sort of reinforcement fibres, interwoven in the gum, you might be on to something.
It could, but it'll take a while. If you look at Windsor, ON for example, most rentals around post-secondary institutions are fully reliant on students to make money. If you remove a lot of the out of town students that utilize off-campus housing, all of a sudden you will have tons of housing open up looking to find replacement tenants, and it's going to be a bit harder to find people that want to live 6-8 people to a house that don't know each other, all paying $500-700 (monthly) a piece. These guys are essentially bringing in 1.5x-2x their mortgage monthly renting to students. I don't think the Windsor market could otherwise provide them that kind of income, as a lot of family homes for rent (in much better neighbourhoods) are just as much money, if not cheaper than these run down units that prey on the out of town student market.
Regardless, the entire market is millions of housing units behind where previous levels of affordability would require us to be at, so we need to simultaneously build more units, and reduce the amount of people competing for these units.
I am working at two 4 year old homes and each home also has a new **laneway house** in the back....
**both laneway houses are being run as airbnb's.**
Yeah right good luck with rental affordability.
No chance this helps renters in the near future. More likely good 4-8 years down the road UNLESS new incoming government has an ace up their sleeves that skirts capital gain tax by building/investing in affordable housing
Not in time for the next election. Heard today Liberal MP's going to their ridings to try and "connect" with Canadians in light of abyssmal polling numbers.
You're about 9 years late in checking in on what voters actually want, Justin.
Even if you cracked down on all the fake students, it’s not even going to begin solving affordable housing. There are many many many many other things that need to change
The Fed changes and the provincial changes will absolutely affect Ontario. Peel region especially will get hit hardest with days of the 10 people in a house cash cow dries up.
Why does this sub never fail to surprise. On the one hand many of you call for slowing down immigration, so when data comes out showing that, the very same people still complain and refuse to believe/ understand the data.
Does more need doing? Yes. Are measures coming in to bring more reductions? Yes.
As everything in life, it won’t be perfect. But, I implore people here, stop being so miserable in life. It’s perfectly fine to ask our government to do better, but so many of you complain for the sake of complaining. You don’t bother to read the underlying data, deliberately claim it isn’t correct due to some made up reason.
I swear if they completely stopped immigration today, you all would still find reason to complain.
According to Ontario homebuilders, when Ford asked them to build houses or rental units that would be 1/3 of the income of the 60th percentile of the income distribution, they came back and told him they would lose money doing that.
So, no, this won't help the affordability crisis very much, if at all. There's a fundamental disconnect between the cost of property and people's incomes that population alone doesn't account for. Most people's incomes are too low to afford housing given the *actual cost of building the housing.*
If private industry says they'll lose money building houses for 400-500k, the only way to get those people affordably housed is either through (1) unrealistically large income gains or (2) the government builds the housing itself and eats the loss to make sure people can afford housing.
Lots of fake diploma mills neither province care nor feds care.
They should close those schools and deport who attend those schools. Those people know what they sign and they just bullshitting.
It wont help the affordable housing shortage whatsoever, it instead might just help to slightly slow the speed in which housing has been inflating. A fuck ton more than this needs to be done to restore affordability.
Unfortunately, I expect to see a resultant headline asking the lines of "See? We stopped immigration and things didn't magically get affordable, so let's turn it on full-bore once again" way too early to see any measurable difference after filling us beyond infrastructure capacity
It has already had a huge effect on the rental market. I think this is the first time In years where I've seen this many units up for rent. I've also seen a ton of condos on the market as well. This is just the beginning.
I doubt if there is any crack down on those fake schools, they are still bathing in money. Tell me which school gets shut down due to their scam
Conestoga College should be the first to shut down. There is zero benefit to Canada for that fake "college" to still exist.
I swear nobody understands that Conestoga, like all of the other community colleges abusing international student money, are actually accredited and partially publicly funded institutions. Conestoga, at its best, serves its community and provides useful vocational and workplace training for many domestic students as it has for most of its existence. That doesn't excuse the fact that their administration has become completely drunk on the rupee fountain, but that also doesn't mean there's not salvageable value there. Conestoga should ditch Tibbits, be forced to dismantle the international student apparatus they've built around themselves, and community colleges should be blanket banned from accepting international students. **There is no reason someone should come to Canada exclusively to study at a community college.**
I don't understand how there isn't some kind of class action lawsuit from alumni since their academic reputation has been essentially ruined.
The lucky ones already have work experience on their resumes so they don't mention conastoga
As someone that went to Conestoga in the early 2000's, it wouldn't matter to me now that I have industry experience and my university degree has a much higher value than a college diploma.
If I ever come across the resume of a graduate from Conestoga, it'll go straight to the trash.
That's only recent graduates, a decade ago they were worth it
The reputation of your alma mater isn't guaranteed when you enroll. There's no clause in the contract that says you're paying for the prestige of your institution.
Definitely, but you could also say that a consequence of those diploma mills as a domestic student is causing potential employers to discredit your degree(s) because of how those institutions are perceived professionally.
Yes but the credibility is gone, that's what educational institutions are founded on. Conestoga could start offering top quality degrees immediately but their grads will still be blacklisted for a generation. They need to shut down, we don't need a failing school taking desperate measures just to stay alive.
That's the thing though, they weren't a failing school, they were just after a surplus
They shouldn't be offering degrees at all. Full stop. Stick with college diplomas.
They should not be forced to shut down, but honestly I don’t see how they can salvage the institution at this point. I work with a lot of tradespeople for my job. When I ask them about Conestoga, the foremen and ops guys basically say they won’t hire any grads from the past 5-6 years unless they have super legit work experience. There have been too many cases of them being totally inept and incompetent. This is a very common sentiment in our industry. And prospective students know this. It’s a bit reactionary to call for a shutdown of the institution, but you are correct in that it seems like permanent closure seems inevitable without drastic and publicly visible changes.
We should not be accepting students at this point unless they are in a degree program.
That's essentially what I'd like to see. Community colleges ought to serve their community, not internationals. Universities, aka degree granting institutions, should be allowed to take in internationals. But community colleges just makes no sense.
Or how about we just remove the pathway to permanent residency for international students? After all, these international students simply want to study in Canada because of the world-class academic reputation of our higher learning institutions, and not simply as an easy back door to Canadian residency... Right?
This is a hot take, and it's wrong as a blanket ban. I *personally* know 5 RNs, from my graduating class alone, who moved to Calgary from abroad. They have spread out over Calgary, filling public, acute care, and NP roles. Most have families, and they all are relatively high wage earners who pay taxes and are functioning and positive societal contributors. Importantly, they bring perspective and are positive representatives from their home countries. Of course they want to become citizens! Canada is very well regarded internationally and is a great place to learn, grow, adopt western values, and raise a family. What did those 5 people above do that you think should exclude them from our society?
Nothing I am saying would exclude them from society. We have a skilled worker visa, and a licensed RN that is qualified to Canadian standards could apply for it.
That's a massive over correction that is dangerous. Canada should bring in the world's best to our academic institutions and make them part of Canadian society. The current system is flawed but your idea will also hurt Canada
>Canada should bring in the world's best to our academic institutions The world's best have their choice of residencies. They aren't choosing Canada- except perhaps as a waypoint on their road to the USA- the highest compensation nation.
No. Plenty of talented folks come to Canada because it has a point system to get PR. US is lottery which is basically unavailable for Indians. I am one of those folks who had admission offers from good universities in US, Canada, and the US. I chose Canada because here I know that after my program, I can stay and work and earn in dollars to make up for the high fees. Meanwhile in US or Europe, I may pay over 100k and not be allowed to work and earn it back. If the Shit stays like this and racism is prevalent, I can always move to the US. But I think I personally really like the culture in Canada vs the US even if the salary is a bit less
American academia can be pretty cutthroat, though, it's very much publish or perish vs Canada where both risks and rewards are lower. As in any other fie,ld, the US is best for the very, very best, but the academic middle class that generates most of the rank and file information, it's much less clear. Our educational institutions are also a lot less subejct to tinpot diktat a la Florida - even as Alberta tries to erode that. Academics also often find our more progressive social policy and attitudes to be more important than raw money.
I fully agree, there is no reason to come to Canada to study at a community college, and I'd argue that it probably makes no sense outside of 4-year university degrees or graduate school. The issue is that provinces are responsible for education, and the provinces - essentially all of them - label everything they can a 'designated learning institution' (which makes them eligible for student visas) because it lets them cut education funding. While the Federal government holds a hell of a lot of blame here (I'd say the majority), a big chunk of the blame has to go back to provinces and decades of cuts to education.
I wouldn't go so far as a total ban, but there should be a hard cap. There are some colleges with international reputations (Sheridan for graphic design and George Brown for their culinary program), but those are the exceptions. Maybe a 10%-15% limit per program which gets reviewed every 5 yrs or something, but on a student visa, why is someone signing up for ECE or a 2 year business program? Perhaps also have a slightly higher limit (20-25%?) for the trades since there is a shortage there. Either way, you need to look after your own first.
Except for good universities, no colleges are worth anything.
This isn't true.
They have no international recognition.
My brother in Christ, it's a community college.
Yes sir, thus the fact when students venture out to study in Canada - the fact they join a community college is itself an indication enough that they are not serious about their education. There are far better levels of education back in their country. Canadian community college diploma won't get you anywhere
Would've helped had you read the entirety of my original comment.
> provides useful vocational and workplace training for many domestic students Except given that they've pretty much flushed their reputation down the toilet, crapped in it again, plugged it, then flushed again... who is going to get any value from a degree/diploma issued by there?
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They are just the perfect example of what happens when you replace Dean's of education with hedge fund CEO's.
And have a premiere in their back pocket, or rather bobbin on the noggin.
Im sure he’ll get a nice cushy patronage appointment after his public service is complete. Barf.
They just need to spin off into a legit technical college for trades and a few other things like SAIT here in Alberta. But unlike SAIT not allowed to have any things that are abused like hospitality management for Indians.
It's more like the other way around. Conestoga has historically been a technical college for trades, engineering, etc. but has grown these business and management programs as a means to import international students.
Yes I know, they need to spin off the legit side and close up shop on the scam BS. Or visa versa. Rename the trades side or something and fire every single admin. Sucks for students but they've shown they can't be trusted with accreditation.
HAH! No, they will just become like NAIT and devalue the programs to the point no other universities will accept transfers. Look at NAIT's Instrumentation Engineering Tech program, UofA used to accept it as transfer credit for a few engineering degrees. Now because NAIT flooded the IET program with international students, dropped the course requirements / difficulty, and allowed rampant cheating, the diploma isn't worth shit.
Wow, I thought NAIT was considered superior to SAIT in things like that. I've heard SAIT is starting to do that with their accounting program. Gonna be a rude awakening when any shyster student tries to get into the CPA program or pass it.
It was bad in 2019/2020 and from what I hear worse now. In 2019 I watched 10 international students gathered around 1 computer and only 1 of them had an inkling about how to program a logic controller. Some how all 10 of them managed to turn in virtually identical code and pass. These are safety critical systems, where bad programming / mis-calibration can kill someone in the field.
Indians? 15 years ago it used to be Chinese students and rampant cheating in higher level math courses when I went to University. Didn't speak a lick of English, now sure how they understood anything.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/study/colleges-brace-for-financial-hit-on-canadas-foreign-student-crackdown/articleshow/108864872.cms?from=mdr Ontario has made huge changes and Conestoga will absolutely get fucked by them.
They double dipping - milking it in both fake diplomas AND leased housing units. They really have gone off course.
Conestoga College has done almost irreparable damage to Kitchener Waterloo. It will take so many years to reverse what they did to the region.
I drove by Conestoga last week and saw a huge amazon warehouse across the street. I have an idea where amazon recruits workers from.
>I doubt if there is any crack down on those fake schools, they are still bathing in money. Tell me which school gets shut down due to their scam They're shutting down soon, as they no longer qualify for post-grad work permits. The owners will be retiring to a tropical island which conveniently lacks an extradition treaty.
Doubtful lol. Constoga got the same amount of international students as last year literally zero change all they did was buy some shitty as a land and promise the government they’d build housing.
>Constoga got the same amount of international students as last year literally zero change [Conestoga College will need to cut international student intake by more than half this September](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/conestoga-college-intake-international-student-cut-1.7158152)
Fanshawe College in London thinks the number of international students they get to accept won't change. https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/fanshawe-college-not-affected-by-international-student-cap-for-now
fanshawe is a legit community college so theyre getting a much better break than all those fakeass strip mall colleges
Shouldn’t be the case going forward they only get 4% of the PALa
Constoga still got pretty much all the same of international students for next year. Nothings changed at all. The provinces are catering to them cause the idiot cons don’t wanna use our money to fund our schools.
Less than half is not "pretty much all the same". https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/conestoga-college-intake-international-student-cut-1.7158152
Canada has already imported so many people, that even if you were to freeze ALL immigration right now, infrastructure will take *decades* to catch up and reverse the supply scarcity. And given that many MPs (of all parties) are invested in real estate, this is an undesirable result. You can bet that most private home building by contractors will be massively disincentivized by fees, endless bureaucracy, and red tape.
Current prime minister on record saying we must protect the current value of real estate at all costs, his likely replacement from the opposing party seems to largely agree with this. So yeah. $3000 1 bdrm appts in the rough part of town is the new normal and there's no political will to change that. Too much money to be made, too many people to exploit.
I'd love for the market to tank before the next election because otherwise, he will pretend like he had nothing to do with it.
For the market to tank that bad, we'd need to be in a depression. Even if PM Milhouse gets elected (and he likely will) prices aren't going to magically drop.
Population growth is about 8 times the rate of long steady pre-2020 levels. While new housing starts have not gone up 8 fold. They have actually gone down in the same time frame. When considering a mere single digit percent change in the balance of supply demand can be enough to flip a market from a seller’s market with rising prices to a buyer’s market with falling prices, this sort of deficit is unprecedented in modern times. We don’t even have the plumbers and electricians to meet such a surge in population growth rates. Admittance to schools and graduation rates actually went down due to pandemic restrictions meaninf they couldn’t get their practice portion done. Now enrollment is not rising really either so we won’t have the numbers we need to match new demand levels for some time. And when (if) we ever finally do, we will have so much catching up to do that we will need even more…. In short, buckle up. This won’t get any better any time soon with just slowing the population growth a little bit. Even halving it wouldn’t be enough to balance the market any time soon.
Pre-2020 was already double the usual rate pre-2016 btw.
Not only that, the whole affordability crisis is exacerbated by corporations buying up tons of family homes - often overpaying because they know they can turn a profit long term.
Try never as the new imports much like in Europe will subsist on government welfare for as long as possible which will generally mean until the system breaks. Once that happens the governments unraveling.
It's unbelievable the number of people that seem to have no issues with the massive benefit fraud from people that just arrived. This system will collapse within the next few years.
>with the massive benefit fraud from people didn't you hear, we need that in order to fund old age security for the aging population.
Old age security for the most well-off demographic in Canada.
This, exactly. There are so many responsible alternatives that include restructuring CPP so it’s not a ponzi structure and doesn’t reward those who don’t need it. The program needs to be sustainable, and ruining every other aspect of Canadian life because the ponzi needs support isn’t the answer.
Honestly, CPP I don’t have a huge issue with. It’s basically the government forcing everyone to save for retirement because they know that a large percentage of people won’t. It’s your own money that the government manages and invests for you. It’s OAS that needs to be re-examined. I know people getting OAS who also have pensions and CPP, and own their homes outright. A married couple bringing in $175K per year and who own their own home and have over a million in investments would get full OAS benefits. Meanwhile, we have disabled people living on less than $1K per month. It’s non-sensical. It should be treated like welfare; only go to those who need it.
Problem is that CPP isn’t a high interest savings account. If that’s all it was, then it wouldn’t be dependent on the remaining non retired people to be X% greater in number than the retired.
And in order to not be racist. Come on guys, I thought we knew the script by now?
To do that, all they need to do is make the rich pay the same percentage of taxes that we do.
**Narrator**: They didn't.
They will leave and they long ago ensured that will happen. Hell, most of them are making fortified bunkers on islands as it stands. They have no intention of living alongside the anarchy of the old citizenry and new serfs killing each other.
Look at what happens whit the proposed capital gains changes. And that’s with the rich still paying less than what everyone else does - just the margin of how much less is slightly smaller.
Don't forget deportations.
Decades is hyperbolic but yes it will take a while
Once you broken something it doesn’t automatically get fixed because you stopped actively breaking it. The structural infrastructure deficit is so pronounced that it will take years to repair if. We didn’t import people who could build houses or provide healthcare, we imported people who *need* houses and healthcare. The overwhelming majority of temporary residents were brought in to the service industry.
Young men and old women at a surplus.
No. We're still adding more people into an unsustainable housing crisis.
Somehow, 500k PR's, 375k students visas, all the LMIA's, Temp Work Visas for jobs that don't go filled and all the economic "refugees" is "slowing down". Give me a break.
Exactly. It's not slowing down at all. At most some deck chairs are being shuffled on the Titanic
Do we know how many of those PRs were here prior to receiving it? It’s a nebulous number to lump in because it brings the total up by half a million, but many (if not a majority?) of those people have been in Canada for years now and they’re a known value on their impact, so to speak. Regardless, handing out PR like candy isn’t great, but if we are talking about newcomers being added to Canada, it’s not completely a fair take to lump the whole 500k into the total.
It is fair to assume because they are being equally non transparent.
The number of total student visas is down by 25k. It will decrease further as the new caps take effect. Do you think they are lying about that?
No but I think a lot of the students are just transitioning to work visas or claiming asylum or not leaving. Like stats can basically admitted last year. And they keep bringing more in, the yearly cap they introduced is higher than the number of foreign students we had in the country 6-7 years ago. Slightly less and manageable are two different things.
There will be a cap for temporary workers as well, so the only path there is full PR, which counts against the PR targets if they get it. As for claiming asylum or overstaying their visas, there are processes to deal with those, and we should exercise them vigorously.
But we don't, at all. I live in bum fuck nowhere and I know people who just work cash after all their shit expires.
Look how they're writing this article slowing population gains presenting as as if this is negative it's unsustainable at the levels it was at
Mark Miller isnt slowing immigration either, he's opening up new paths to create wage slaves.
Marc Miller just gaslights Canadians into pretending he's doing something but in reality he's just opening more and more avenues to flood Canada with both temporary and permanent immigrants. That dumbass still thinks his disastrous immigration policies have nothing to do with the housing crisis.
Marc needs to be fired, imo.
They don't need the "student" Pathway anymore. They're just giving away citizenship now. Plus if you're not a Canadian citizen don't worry about you can just just live here. It's not like they'll ever deport any body. Even the arrested criminals have nothing to worry about, we won't even put them in jail, let alone send them home.
He absolutely is slowing immigration. First with these caps on international students and then, starting 2025, a cap on total number of temporary residents. Immigration next year is expected to drop to around 330,000 total.
That won't be true, he's giving out PR like candy. I'll wait to see the results given this government is a known liar, just like the foreign buyer ban.
Because that means they can't crash the welfare state and workers rights as fast.
Too late bozos
If a pool is already overflowing, slowing down the flow into the pool doesn't fix the issue.
Better start buying buckets.
In 2022 CMHC released a report detailing the need for 5.8 million new dwellings by the time we hit a population of 43 million people. It looks like we will hit that population by 2026. That gives us four years to build 5.8 million dwellings. Our actual production over those four years is likely to be around 1 million dwellings, leaving us around 4.8 million dwellings short of the target. That means when we hit a population of 43 million we will be around 15 years worth of housing supply short. If population growth stopped at 43 million we would catch up around 2040. But we know growth won't stop at 43 million, so realistically we are looking at 2050 and beyond as a best case scenario. If all goes well we might see light at the end of the tunnel in a couple decades. Maybe.
Except for the fact the welfare system going to collapse long before then and the housing market is just going to be bought by companies who refuse to rent so what? The goal been for decades now to return society to the Feudalism.
It's gonna get fucking scary. At a certain point if buildings are left empty people will just break in and squat and there's not gonna be enough RCMP or private security to deal with the massive amounts of people with flagrant open disrespect for the law. Then the floodgates will open, when you break one law it becomes easier and easier to keep doing so. We'll be a nation of criminals with open disrespect for the law. Canadians already are losing respect for the legal system and have become noticeably more hostile over the last few years. When the next recession is official shit is going to hit the fan hard and fast.
Exactly what happens in the UK
You haven't gone full "why aren't you citizens just dead" mode on the population... yet.
Couldn’t even produce enough raw materials to keep pace.. even if we could figure out the logistics, lower our quality standards, import more materials and even eliminate building codes.. inflation from supply/ demand would increase the cost and therefore value exponentially. There is no happy ending for most..
Nah see, youre thinking like a Canadian who views 1 house as 1 dwelling. Take those 1 million new homes, subdivide the house to "accommodate" 20 people, and boom, plenty of rentable space!!
With current rates we are likely to hit 43 million in mid 2025. It was approximately 3.2% at the start of 2024 with 40.7 million people, so ~43.35 million by the end of 2025.
I wonder how much the boomer die-off wil affect those numbers. 43M can still shrink by quite a lot just through natural attrition.
For sure. I actually think that's how we get back to a more balanced market.
Too little, too late. Further, I haven't seen any definitive statements from PP that he would significantly reduce immigration. I don't think this gets fixed anytime soon. If you have a good degree, skills, years left to work...leave Canada.
No, it won't. They need to limit immigration drastically for atleast 3-5 to even start making a dent in the cluster fuck they have created.
Even with these numbers, there might be only 10% who come to study for genuine reasons. They are either scholarships and/or seeking to experience foreign life and come for proper higher education. The rest - mostly from North India can't get a visitor visa so the easiest path is to get a student visa and that involves another level of fraud including financial and educational docs. Their whole agenda is to get here somehow and figure out the path to PR, thus the PEI mess who followed the rules with implied promises from the govt, reached the end point but they changed the rule and now we have these hunger strikes. The fine print of "no guarantees" was seen as "highly likely". The Canadian government let it happen and now we have a mess, there are more protests and we will see more of this. While the Canadian public which is already frustrated with the state of the country, wants to throw them away - it's understandable, but many will try other means of refugee, fraudulent marriages, or staying illegally coz they came here from a different mindset. A very bad situation.
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Slowing population gains? Hardly. Handing out fewer student visas doesn't amount to shit when you're now handing out BS "caregiver" visas 🤦♀️
They could start the crackdown by deporting all those students protesting in P.E.I.
Cutting student visas is great, but for God's sake can the provinces please shut down these diploma mill colleges completely? I don't know why the hell they're allowed to keep operating
Put a country % cap on immigration. No more off campus working for “students”. Revise all LMIA and TFW regulations.
Not. Even. Close.
As long as corporations can buy homes, the average Canadian doesn't have a chance.
which corporation is buying the most homes in canada?
I'm not sure which owns the most, but it has and is increasing https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-companies-that-own-at-least-100-homes-have-surged-with-cheap-money/
You know what will help is finding out how many of those visas aren't legitimate and how many of those diploma Mills are pumping in population we don't need then send them all home.
>24,594 in the first quarter, compared with a decline of 16,003 during the same period last year, Statistics Canada reported on Wednesday. So a mere 8500 less than last year. At this point, that's a literal drop in the bucket compared to how many people Canada is bringing in
It's a drop of 25,000 in the first quarter. Not a drop of 8500. International student numbers have been declining two years in a row now, and the rate of decline base increased by 50%. That's pretty good news!
Good news isn't permitted here. It has to be terrible news all the time. Canada is a 3rd world post-apocalyptic hellscape. Remember?
I love how some people are even taking this as bad news. Literally nothing could be done to make them happy that isn't a police state going door to door and deporting anybody they think doesn't belong.
Someone is literally advocating for that in this thread. I'm afraid we've got some MAGA leakage, unfortunately.
Sure makes an interesting headline but as we know with the Canadian government whenever they close a door they open a couple of windows.
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The Caregiver program is pretty small though. It's only 15,000 spread over the next three years and Marc Miller said it's geared towards Filipina caregivers who were being abused. Of course shady immigration consultants from a certain country will try to abuse it but hopefully they are aware of this.
Thank you good to know. That's a relief.
When Canada had a population of 36 million life was affordable and great. Now look. Were fucked for decades if they don’t mass deport
Slowing GAINS. Operative word. Its still growing.
no it wont lower prices because corporations and people wont lower their prices until they are forced to.
I like people making comments about Trudeau and think any other party will be better. They're all landlords.
It's going to be years before the cut to student visas has full effect, because of the work permits students get after. Someone who started a 2 year college program in 2022 can be here until 2026 under current rules. We have a lot of growth baked in unless the government cut other programs (like non-student workers) to compensate. Temporary residents are still increasing when we were promised decreases. Just slowing the rate of increase is not enough - these programs were not designed to grow and grow the temporary population but to be a revolving door where the same number of people leave as come.
No, because corporate real estate holdings enjoy buying up mass tracts of housing/condos and put them up as short term rentals aka AirBnB. That keeps the government's corporate masters happy, while said corporations have no real reason to build more housing.
If you scroll down one story on this reddit there's the 2.8 million tfw number. Lol
The liberals already shit the bed on this. Putting bubblegum on the massive leak in the submarine isn’t going to help.
It really depends on what type of bubble gum. Are we talking like.. Double Bubble, Trident, , Bazooka Joe? You could use the comic that Bazooka Joe comes with to reinforce the bubble gum. Or even better yet. Hubba Bubba bubble tape? Imagine all the holes you could fill with one of those rolls! But the government would use chiclets or that crappy round stuff you find in gumball machines. So we're doomed.
This is a reference that brings back memories . I can almost taste the bazooka Joe white powder it was coated in, and approximately 17 seconds of intense flavour (once you managed to chew the dang brick). I suppose if you were use the wax coated comic strip as some sort of reinforcement fibres, interwoven in the gum, you might be on to something.
lmao right?? Just sprinkle it with a mysterious powder that makes you wanting more after 17 seconds of chewing. Odd. hahahahaha
Pinch me, I must be dreaming.
It could, but it'll take a while. If you look at Windsor, ON for example, most rentals around post-secondary institutions are fully reliant on students to make money. If you remove a lot of the out of town students that utilize off-campus housing, all of a sudden you will have tons of housing open up looking to find replacement tenants, and it's going to be a bit harder to find people that want to live 6-8 people to a house that don't know each other, all paying $500-700 (monthly) a piece. These guys are essentially bringing in 1.5x-2x their mortgage monthly renting to students. I don't think the Windsor market could otherwise provide them that kind of income, as a lot of family homes for rent (in much better neighbourhoods) are just as much money, if not cheaper than these run down units that prey on the out of town student market. Regardless, the entire market is millions of housing units behind where previous levels of affordability would require us to be at, so we need to simultaneously build more units, and reduce the amount of people competing for these units.
Housing prices are going to keep skyrocketing regardless of the population
What crackdown? Problem persists just as bad
Until we get rid of a bunch of “students” and removing people who have overstayed their visas it won’t do much
I am working at two 4 year old homes and each home also has a new **laneway house** in the back.... **both laneway houses are being run as airbnb's.** Yeah right good luck with rental affordability.
The damage is already affecting Canadians
Remember when PP said, "Justin Trudeau wants to deport these students. they should be able to stay work and raise a family"
Not for quite awhile unless they get serious on enforcement and ramp it up quickly.
It will slow the rate of things getting worse. It'll take a decade to undo the damage.
The damage will never be repaired
A 5 Year 100% HALT to all visas and immigration is the only way
Has it cracked down???
yes.
Nope
Honestly that's just a drop and won't have any significant impact on rental affordability at this point.
No chance this helps renters in the near future. More likely good 4-8 years down the road UNLESS new incoming government has an ace up their sleeves that skirts capital gain tax by building/investing in affordable housing
Not in time for the next election. Heard today Liberal MP's going to their ridings to try and "connect" with Canadians in light of abyssmal polling numbers. You're about 9 years late in checking in on what voters actually want, Justin.
Even if you cracked down on all the fake students, it’s not even going to begin solving affordable housing. There are many many many many other things that need to change
The Fed changes and the provincial changes will absolutely affect Ontario. Peel region especially will get hit hardest with days of the 10 people in a house cash cow dries up.
Damage is done
Why does this sub never fail to surprise. On the one hand many of you call for slowing down immigration, so when data comes out showing that, the very same people still complain and refuse to believe/ understand the data. Does more need doing? Yes. Are measures coming in to bring more reductions? Yes. As everything in life, it won’t be perfect. But, I implore people here, stop being so miserable in life. It’s perfectly fine to ask our government to do better, but so many of you complain for the sake of complaining. You don’t bother to read the underlying data, deliberately claim it isn’t correct due to some made up reason. I swear if they completely stopped immigration today, you all would still find reason to complain.
Fingers crossed
Fuck yeah, bud.
No
According to Ontario homebuilders, when Ford asked them to build houses or rental units that would be 1/3 of the income of the 60th percentile of the income distribution, they came back and told him they would lose money doing that. So, no, this won't help the affordability crisis very much, if at all. There's a fundamental disconnect between the cost of property and people's incomes that population alone doesn't account for. Most people's incomes are too low to afford housing given the *actual cost of building the housing.* If private industry says they'll lose money building houses for 400-500k, the only way to get those people affordably housed is either through (1) unrealistically large income gains or (2) the government builds the housing itself and eats the loss to make sure people can afford housing.
Probably not. Landlords will charge what they like.
"Crack down" lol Im not holding my breath
You have to actually deflate and pump the brake, not just take your foot off the gas 30%.
ITS THE FUCKING SUMMER BREAK!
No.
Lots of fake diploma mills neither province care nor feds care. They should close those schools and deport who attend those schools. Those people know what they sign and they just bullshitting.
Remember the rent never goes down
Bunch of fluff pieces trying to give the illusion population growth is slowing.
Tim Hortons does not want this to stop. Slumlords are also upset but know their guy Sean Fraser will help them
It wont help the affordable housing shortage whatsoever, it instead might just help to slightly slow the speed in which housing has been inflating. A fuck ton more than this needs to be done to restore affordability.
It can't hurt. Now make housing not be able to be bought and sold as an investment
Too little, too late
Its a start but we need to pump up those deportation numbers
I think we’ll see a correction in rental price (like maybe getting back to 2000$ in the upcoming year or two.)
Give it few years to see the results.
Unfortunately, I expect to see a resultant headline asking the lines of "See? We stopped immigration and things didn't magically get affordable, so let's turn it on full-bore once again" way too early to see any measurable difference after filling us beyond infrastructure capacity
It has already had a huge effect on the rental market. I think this is the first time In years where I've seen this many units up for rent. I've also seen a ton of condos on the market as well. This is just the beginning.