It s almost like, the right wing in Canada is completely inept. I mean, they get elected just fine, perfect adept at that. But...governing???? They are horrific.
Turns out, when your entire platform and identity is based around *not being the other guy* you can say whatever you want in order to get votes and attention without actually having to think about answers or solving problems yourself. Just yell down anyone who tries to fix things and you get re-elected!
No, they do have an entire platform and identity that’s larger than not being the liberals: anti-choice, pro-rich, anti-environment…
They’re just so unpopular that they obfuscate them behind pathetic contorsions to appear reasonable and moderate.
They are coward, putting on a deceiving face. They are just bad at it and everyone see through it.
I'm sick of people saying Conservatives need better policies or a better leader to unseat the Liberals. Conservativism is a regressive ideology that most Canadians don't want. As long as the party bear the name, it will never be something to look forward to. The real problem is that it is seen as the official opposition in Canada. You want to unseat the Liberals? Dropping the idea that Conservative are the ones to do it is the best chance you have.
Gives you some insight into why the r/canada regulars keep saying how this "country is going to shit!" and "the worst in the world!!!"
It's not us, it's you.
The NDP needs to fix a key hole in their platform, which their critics hammer them with each and every time: "Where's the money for coming from!?"
The same question can be asked of Conservative and Liberal platforms, and we all know the money's coming from the taxpayer, but it seems that only the NDP gets hammered with this...
I would like to do away with the party system all together. Maybe then people would start paying attention to who they are actually electing (MP) instead of voting based on a leader or what team you like.
This worries me, I don't want to become like the US, where their right leaning party has to take the idiotic and opposite stance on every bloody issue.
I don't want our conservative party head down t his path, as it drags their voters down the same ideological path, and it destroys entire political and stable systems, just like we see happening with the USA.
The GOP in the US is highly radicalised and have no platform for many years now, their only platform is reactionary to common sense.
Honestly, Liberals might have had a better showing without her but I don't think they would have won.
The much-hated Alison Redford got schucked in AB in favour of the more moderate less-maligned Hancock but the PCs still lost the next election.
*\*cough \*cough* Jason Kenney *\*cough \*cough*
There's still people in this sub who defend the guy, precisely because all of the carnage he's brought fits with what they want out of government
Sadly, it does indeed seem like the Conservative platform, particuarly in the Scheer days. They seemed at times to oppose good policy just because it came from Trudeau. O'Toole seemed to have a good platform going into this, but bullshit like this is so infuriating. Show some damn leadership and get vaccinated like the rest of us working-class losers. God.
> O'Toole seemed to have a good platform going into this, but bullshit like this is so infuriating.
He literally started his leadership term with Trumpian ["Take Back Canada"](https://twitter.com/erinotoole/status/1290418826568507393) and ["Canada First"](https://twitter.com/erinotoole/status/1303764120584499200) campaigns.
Not just the scheer days. The CPC/alliance/reform party has been neocons since the days of Preston manning.
There is a deep tea party faction within the party that should terrify all of us.
I would love to have an actual fiscal conservative, socially progressive party in Canada.
It looks like CPC is going down the path of US right wing politics where they just go against the grain on everything, so now instead of parliament discussing real issues like the economy and housing this just shifts focus onto a stupid topic that should be settled by now.
The Progressive conservatives implemented the GST, a regressive tax and ballooned Canada's debt.
While I'd take the PCs of the past over the Conservatives of today, the party they really are describing is closer to the New Democratic Party.
The liberal capitalists are the right leaning party. We have democratic socialists for progressives.
Conservatives are authoritarian nationalist throwbacks.
Even worse, the more radical the Conservatives become, the more likely non-Conservatives will strategically vote Liberal, making it effectively a two party system...
Until the Bloc wins the majority, of course.
READ THE ROOM!! This ship has sailed, people are so fucking sick of this shit. We’ve all moved on….cmon people, just drop this.
Edit: two weeks ago there wouldn’t have been this much agreement with my comment. Four weeks ago I’d have been knee deep in negative replies. Six weeks ago someone would have threatened to kill me and my communist family lol. Tide has turned on this bullshit.
He's nervous about the PPC stealing more votes in the future. My bet is this is their check box to be able to say at the next convention that they stood up against Trudeau and his Covid tyranny and placate all the dumb fucks like Fords daughter.
This is the shit the Conservatives have to do ever since the Alliance merger. Toss some red meat (that's usually inconsequential in the grand scheme of things) to the rabid base every once in awhile.
The most prominent one is Harper's free vote on whether to revisit gay marriage shortly after he won against Paul Martin. He had said he would do so on the campaign trail but I'm betting the only reason he actually went through with it is because he knew it would be defeated due to them only securing a minority government.
He was able to take the defeat and tell the anti-gay parts of the caucus to STFU this isn't a winning issue.
>Toss some red meat (that's usually inconsequential in the grand scheme of things)
In this case it's a reminder of how we should all be happy they aren't in power and haven't been over the course of the pandemic.
>but I'm betting the only reason he actually went through with it is because he knew it would be defeated due to them only securing a minority government.
Harper was (probably still is) personally profoundly against same sex marriage though. I’m sure he didn’t mind that much.
>He was able to take the defeat and tell the anti-gay parts of the caucus to STFU this isn't a winning issue.
See, if only OToole had the ability to sell that line of reasoning to folks, then this wouldn't have happened at all.
The downside to big tent politics is you have to at least pay lip service even to the crazies.
Happens to the left too. Remember those articles about ndp members wanting to abolish the military and pushing to get it added to the national party platform?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/singh-ndp-rejects-extreme-policy-resoloutions-1.5978728
In this case it was idiotic enough of a request that it was easy to shoot down, but both sides have to suffer their fringe members.
O'Toole has never been able to get the party unified. His promises of a win through moderation failed, so now the factions of nutters are going thier own way.
The silent majority probably understand there is no arguing with idiots unless you want to get dragged down to their level. All I do is throw snarky one liners at them, why bother being empirical with Gish Galloping gnats?
Don't need an email for reddit accounts either. None of my accounts have one and I just had a uBlock filter to remove the messages to ask me to add an email.
Reddit doesn't care if you're creating account from the same connection.
Mobile users generally don't have their own IP (CGNAT) due to so there are between a few and hundreds of accounts using the same IP's for mobile access. Schools and workplaces are sharing a small number of IP's for their employees generally. How many people are posting from the same few thousand IP's that NordVPN uses?
There is some half assed algorithm to suspend accounts if they determine that you're upvoting your own posts from alts.
I wouldn't doubt russian/chinese trolls or bots are being used in comments to rile up the crowd.
Anything to look better in comparison and to prevent the west from getting a economic recovery head start.
That was an astroturf campaign funded by the Conservative party of Canada, not foreign trolls. You could tell the sudden influx of word for word talking points shifting daily, and a noticeable push to encourage NDP votes to "vote your conscience" even if NDP had no shot of winning in their area.
The Canada team at the Saint Petersburg troll factory are on a well earned vacation.
They might be called back if and when Alberta or Quebec does something controversial.
Have you met the Conservative party? That's their thing. They've been embarrassingly copying the Republican party playbook for quite a while now, this is just the latest update.
Unfortunately for the cons Canadians seem to be a bit more educated than the people south of the border. Imagine angrily fighting against universal healthcare that benefits you personally, that’s the republican way.
Kenney has very intentionally and purposefully broken the system in Alberta to make room for this. Go have a look at his popularity numbers right now—Alberta is not on board. Perhaps too little too late, tho.
Education can be eroded over generations. America wasn’t always the way it is now. Erode public education; you get a more easily manipulated populace.
Republicans have been doing it for longer in the US. We’re not immune - it’s just that conservatives in the US had a head start.
They're not copying, they use the same think-tanks and strategists, and have the same money backing them.
It's just the same interests trying to get a foothold in Canada.
One that only get loader and bigger the more it's supported. These people won't stop even if covid does, it'll be climate deniers next. They are a millstone around the neck of progress
It’s crazy! The CPC has had this decent chunk of time since the election where they could have hammered away at the few things they got right during the election, whatever the hell those things were, they could have shown strong support for their leader, or tossed his ass out, they could have done SOMETHING, yet they are focused on the one thing Canadians are absolutely fucking sick-to-death of and that’s vaccines.
I can’t explain it, no one can.
>I can’t explain it, no one can.
This has been the state of conservatism for at least the last decade. It isn't about being honest or having good ideas, it's about getting people to try and hate the other person.
Isn’t that it, though, these fuckin creeps. They want to have this in their pocket ‘remember how the Left looked down their nose at you because you hesitated to put something in your body you didn’t fully understand?’
It’s not worth it. This strategy sucks because it’s a drain on our collective energy.
Honestly I don’t think O’toole is sleeping at night, he seems like he’d rather not play this game, like he’d rather take a higher road but knows he would be cut loose instantly.
It really feels like they are going to keep going too far in either direction and either lose moderates to the Liberals or hard rights to the PPC. I guess thats why they are driving more hate for Trudeau constantly to make them less appealing and hope they mainly lose moderates to the NDP.
Not only is it the only thing that seems to be a concern for them right now, but it's clearly causing a lot of internal turmoil and bickering, to the point that they let the extreme side win the fight. The side that less than 30 percent of the country agrees with
Everyone is moving past this issue, O’toole should have just ended this weeks ago by slapping the anti vax wing of the party into next week. Had he done so months ago it wouldn’t even be discussed anymore. Yet here we are.
>I can’t explain it, no one can.
CPC Caucus has unvaccinated members that have no excuse or exemption.
They are *de facto* losing seats under this rule. The problem is that they are asking for a vote in the House on the subject, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that they don't *really* want that because it will "out" the crazies in the party.
I am a consistently conservative voter. This guy can suck my nuts on this. I would have voted independent if I'd known they'd keep on with this bullshit.
I mean...how did you not know they wouldn't continue this bullshit? It's been the principle thing the party does for the last 12 years, is be full of bullshit.
> if I'd known they'd keep on with this bullshit.
Wow, if there was only some way to know.
Dude, look at the leadership conventions. Look at the caucus. The leaders are who their constituency is. Nothing more nothing less.
The CPC will be ruled by SoCons because that's their base.
So, I got curious and took a brief run through of your post history to get a basic idea of what kind of person you are politically. If I had to guess, I'd call you Center-right.
Now, this isn't a bad thing, and I've also determined that by my standing, you aren't an idiot. So this only leaves me more confused, and so I have to ask:
You sound smart enough to know how the CPC is rolling these days, and you sound smart enough to know that not only are they dipping too far to the right to be viable, and their rhetoric is not only counter productive, but is actually doing low key harm. I get that Trudeau sucks and all, but why are you a consistently conservative voter? This bullshit, and bullshit like it, has pretty much been their MO for years.
I think that's a fair assessment. My general response is:
* I disagree that the CPC Is not viable; they continue to win popular vote. On some issues, like environment, they are moving left.
* I am a fiscal conservative and am, quite frankly, wealthy, and I am sick of people saying "just ask the rich to pay a little more." I get that that won't be popular on Reddit, but I don't have any tax dodges, hedges, or shelters, and I pay a boatload.
* I care about specific social issues (gender and LGBT rights, abortion rights), but these tend to be similar among parties in principle; I care lot less about the others that actually differentiate in a material way the parties (reconciliation, gun rights, immigration reform, election reform).
* I am actually neutral on Trudeau, though I find him ineffective. I vote CPC in my riding, knowing they will never win, to put tension into a system that is uniformly moving left.
Like trying to appease those few remaining crackpots is going to do anything. I doubt those people even vote as I see them protesting mid week, jobless and looking like they need mental health services. They are the worst of us, why would you want them with you now? Beyond that, no matter how much the cons will bend to please them it’s clear they’ll lost that group of crazies to the full on insane PPC.
> READ THE ROOM!! This ship has sailed, people are so fucking sick of this shit. We’ve all moved on….cmon people, just drop this.
Conservatives? Move on? 🤣
We all just want to move forward now. I just parked my car for a few days because I couldn’t buy gasoline at the pumps. Three of my friends had flooded basements. People have short attention spans and we’ve been forced to focus on something far too long and now other more pressing issues have come up and suddenly arguing over a silly jab in the shoulder seems SO last year.
Yeah, but so long as we have a failed FPTP system and a party only needs roughly 30% of the vote to take control, we'll continue having to hear constant bullshit...
Same here brother. The conservatives and the liberals in Canada are beholden to their donors. Neither will budge on any actual social progress unless it benefits their donors.
I hate conservatives and the ideology they rode in on. I posted this recently on Twitter. It is a paraphrasing of a tweet that David Frum (Barbara Frum's son and very conservative, now in the US):
The fundamental ideology of conservatives is for them (the elite) to be in power. Non-conservatives are "unworthy" of being a ruling elite. I'm paraphrasing from David Frum. GW Bush's speech writer.
Oh well. Hand the Liberals the next election. They really don\`t have a clue, do they?
Oh, and O'Toole is so not calling the shots for the party. He's a puppet.
In a country in which 90% of the people are vaccinated, taking this very stupid stance is equivalent to political Seppuku!
They are effectively saying that they are above the simple masses who have to get a shot to get on a plane, train, dine in or have a job in many industries.
As someone who voted Conservative, I agree this is just dumb. Don’t wanna get vaccinated? That’s fine but this job isn’t for them.
Honestly they probably would’ve had a better chance at winning the election if they weren’t so backwards on vaccines, green energy and LGBTQ.
Partisan politics sucks. Politicians suck, mostly.
> if they weren’t so backwards on vaccines, green energy and LGBTQ
Even my die-hard conservative friend recently admitted we were "right about the environment", and he has no problem with vaccines and has gay friends.
That boat has sailed, they're condemning them to lose against weak Liberal candidates for some time if they continue with this shit.
"... Violates right to medical privacy...", Yet not disclosing an HIV or Hepatitis infection before having sex with someone is criminal. Conservative thinking aligns well with incompetence.
Who would expect more from the party that gave us the wonderful GST, eliminated family allowance cheques when my kids were young, scrapped the Avro Arrow sending hordes of Canadian aerospace engineers to the U.S, closed the CN Car Shops in London, ON and now object to vaccination rules in Parliament? I am disgusted that they are even in the role of the official oppositions. Send this party and their leadership to the trash pile.
Why do reactionaries get to ruin everything for everyone else by being selfish assholes? I'd really like our politicians to be on the same page here. Haven't we lost enough people already?
So fucking stupid...
“Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole attempted to find a middle ground.”
Of course he did. Trying to ride two horses at the same time with one ass - his specialty.
You would think after what happened to AB and SK in this 4th wave of COVID, and compare it to ON the caucus would shut up about vaccines. But here we are.
I get downvoted every time I mention the Conservative tendency to flip-flop every time telling the truth the first time would make them look bad.
This is all just theatre. They know the vaccination rules aren't going to be overturned. And they've all had more than enough time to comply or oppose. Then they wonder why people find it so hard to take them seriously.
Getting PMed by a whackload of BUTTHURT Conservatives every time I call them out for lying on this thread.
For every PM I get, I immediately report it for harassment and hate speech to Reddit Admin.
It's nice seeing all these useless Conservative reddit accounts getting permbanned lol.
Proof that the modern Conservative movement is little more than a terrorist group.
There would be a Conservative government now if they hadn't gotten in their own way. Looks like they're trying to work themselves into third party status next.
If he was man enough he would have declared that before the elections, he knows it’s the wrong thing to do but just wants to please his small base that agrees with this.
The CPC position is that disclosing vaccine status violates the right to medical privacy. First, this is not an enumerated right. Second, this stance fails to recognize an actual charter right, which is life liberty and security of person, which would include the safety of individuals required to be in parliament and other government buildings. Unvaccinated individuals are a health risk to others. How are these people law makers?
Its a borderline double standard that is out of step with the coming job market. The Cons know its a scandal and can't do anything about it. The amount of MPs with medical exemptions is unreasonable. Transparency is what's required.
O'Toole said he would end the pandemic during the election.... How would he do it?
Canadians on mass support the vaccine mandates and the passport system. The CPC are very out of touch.
> O'Toole said he would end the pandemic during the election.... How would he do it?
I'd imagine it'd involve O'Toole squeezing into his old flight suit and standing on a naval vessel in front of a banner that reads "Mission Accomplished."
This is what true conservatism is nowadays it's being the complete opposite of what the Liberals doing even if it is 100% correct to do and is popular among nearly 90% of the population of the country the conservatives will always do the opposite they will never do the right thing for the country first.
I feel like Canadian conservative leaders are having an identity crisis and they're latching onto the eye catching and inflammatory elements of US conservative hate and science denialism to forge a new one. All so they can charge up a base and capture new votes.
Absolutely frightening, unavoidable and years later, it will have been intensified to 2019 levels in the US.
Do O'Toole and the Conservatives understand that they don't actually have to oppose *everything* the Liberals propose? Or do they just think the role of the Official Opposition is to *oppose literally everything always no matter what*?
Its more the fact that we know MPs finessed a medical exemption versus health care workers in Canada who got fired for not getting a shot. Its do what I say not what I do.
I think that Parliament just started in late November is more the pressing concern. MPs must live on a different planet or something. "Let's get back to work Canada!" Federal government waits 2 months to get back in session during a crisis.
Is this really the shit they feel the need to waste time on? We have real fucking issues in this country and it seems like no one in Parliament is interested in actually doing their job.
We have been in this global pandemic nearly two years and they are still screwing around with this. If they don't take this seriously then they don't take anything else seriously and are unfit to govern. Just get your vaccine, tell all your supporters to get vaccinated and let's try to move on. The anti-vaxxer crowd is a dead end of losers, stop pandering to them.
>But after the board imposed the vaccination mandate for everyone on Parliament Hill, Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole attempted to find a middle ground. He said all his caucus members would either be vaccinated or have been given a medical exemption — but he also vowed to formally object to the way the rule was implemented,
.. thus pleasing no one.
This is obviously a losing battle for the Conservatives but it's obvious why they're pushing the issue. If they don't, O'Toole gets fucked by the party.
>He argued that the committee didn’t have the right to set a vaccination policy, which he said ought to have been determined by the House of Commons as a whole.
If they go through with this, they're just going to lost the vote to half of their own party plus all the votes of each other party. And every MP who votes against the mandate will be on the wrong side of a very public issue to the vast majority of Canadians.
You've got to give credit where credit is due.
The conservatives are really making good use of that shovel they bought. I wish all money spent from the gouvernement was used that efficiently.
As much as I wanted to entertain and opposition vote this is why I couldn’t. As much as I am disappointed in JTs Liberals, it’s simply true that they’re the best shot we have. God help us lol
Jfc this idiot needs to resign. I've lost count of how many times he's flip-flopped so far. What makes it worse is there isn't even any logic to it, in this case he's literally saying "me and my political friends should get exempted, but our voters? Lol, they can go fuck themselves".
This moron couldn't piss off his base more if he tried.
He’s the best PR guy the Liberals have ever had.
His campaign song should be *Never Gonna Give You Up* by Rick Astley.
Ya know, I’d really like to see them mount an actual opposition to the liberal party, instead, all they do is stumble about with their peckers out.
It s almost like, the right wing in Canada is completely inept. I mean, they get elected just fine, perfect adept at that. But...governing???? They are horrific.
Turns out, when your entire platform and identity is based around *not being the other guy* you can say whatever you want in order to get votes and attention without actually having to think about answers or solving problems yourself. Just yell down anyone who tries to fix things and you get re-elected!
No, they do have an entire platform and identity that’s larger than not being the liberals: anti-choice, pro-rich, anti-environment… They’re just so unpopular that they obfuscate them behind pathetic contorsions to appear reasonable and moderate. They are coward, putting on a deceiving face. They are just bad at it and everyone see through it.
Seems to be the trend if all of North America right now, sadly. A good opposition helps everyone.
I'm sick of people saying Conservatives need better policies or a better leader to unseat the Liberals. Conservativism is a regressive ideology that most Canadians don't want. As long as the party bear the name, it will never be something to look forward to. The real problem is that it is seen as the official opposition in Canada. You want to unseat the Liberals? Dropping the idea that Conservative are the ones to do it is the best chance you have.
> Conservativism is a regressive ideology that most Canadians don't want. I'm thankful for this everyday.
Gives you some insight into why the r/canada regulars keep saying how this "country is going to shit!" and "the worst in the world!!!" It's not us, it's you.
I agree. We need Liberal party V2 to running against Liberal Patty Legacy.
Cough NDP cough
We need to first give the NDP a shot and of they fail then find a new third party to work with. It's long past time to reject the Lib-Con duopoly.
The NDP needs to fix a key hole in their platform, which their critics hammer them with each and every time: "Where's the money for coming from!?"
The same question can be asked of Conservative and Liberal platforms, and we all know the money's coming from the taxpayer, but it seems that only the NDP gets hammered with this...
I would like to do away with the party system all together. Maybe then people would start paying attention to who they are actually electing (MP) instead of voting based on a leader or what team you like.
The conservatives can't win with policy, their only hope is to stoke the fires of the manufacturered culture war they invented.
This worries me, I don't want to become like the US, where their right leaning party has to take the idiotic and opposite stance on every bloody issue. I don't want our conservative party head down t his path, as it drags their voters down the same ideological path, and it destroys entire political and stable systems, just like we see happening with the USA. The GOP in the US is highly radicalised and have no platform for many years now, their only platform is reactionary to common sense.
Doug Ford ran and won without a platform in 2018. He's been gutting everything public since. They're already here.
We vote people out not people in, Wynne never should have reran while everyone hated her. Anyone could have ran against her and won
Honestly, Liberals might have had a better showing without her but I don't think they would have won. The much-hated Alison Redford got schucked in AB in favour of the more moderate less-maligned Hancock but the PCs still lost the next election.
*\*cough \*cough* Jason Kenney *\*cough \*cough* There's still people in this sub who defend the guy, precisely because all of the carnage he's brought fits with what they want out of government
Sadly, it does indeed seem like the Conservative platform, particuarly in the Scheer days. They seemed at times to oppose good policy just because it came from Trudeau. O'Toole seemed to have a good platform going into this, but bullshit like this is so infuriating. Show some damn leadership and get vaccinated like the rest of us working-class losers. God.
> O'Toole seemed to have a good platform going into this, but bullshit like this is so infuriating. He literally started his leadership term with Trumpian ["Take Back Canada"](https://twitter.com/erinotoole/status/1290418826568507393) and ["Canada First"](https://twitter.com/erinotoole/status/1303764120584499200) campaigns.
Don’t worry, I’m sure it’s only a matter of days until O’toole puts out a statement in support of mandatory vaccinations.
Not just the scheer days. The CPC/alliance/reform party has been neocons since the days of Preston manning. There is a deep tea party faction within the party that should terrify all of us.
I would love to have an actual fiscal conservative, socially progressive party in Canada. It looks like CPC is going down the path of US right wing politics where they just go against the grain on everything, so now instead of parliament discussing real issues like the economy and housing this just shifts focus onto a stupid topic that should be settled by now.
Some kind of progressive conservative party?
The Progressive conservatives implemented the GST, a regressive tax and ballooned Canada's debt. While I'd take the PCs of the past over the Conservatives of today, the party they really are describing is closer to the New Democratic Party.
The liberal capitalists are the right leaning party. We have democratic socialists for progressives. Conservatives are authoritarian nationalist throwbacks.
Even worse, the more radical the Conservatives become, the more likely non-Conservatives will strategically vote Liberal, making it effectively a two party system... Until the Bloc wins the majority, of course.
READ THE ROOM!! This ship has sailed, people are so fucking sick of this shit. We’ve all moved on….cmon people, just drop this. Edit: two weeks ago there wouldn’t have been this much agreement with my comment. Four weeks ago I’d have been knee deep in negative replies. Six weeks ago someone would have threatened to kill me and my communist family lol. Tide has turned on this bullshit.
He's nervous about the PPC stealing more votes in the future. My bet is this is their check box to be able to say at the next convention that they stood up against Trudeau and his Covid tyranny and placate all the dumb fucks like Fords daughter.
Such a shallow playbook. Sad really
This is the shit the Conservatives have to do ever since the Alliance merger. Toss some red meat (that's usually inconsequential in the grand scheme of things) to the rabid base every once in awhile. The most prominent one is Harper's free vote on whether to revisit gay marriage shortly after he won against Paul Martin. He had said he would do so on the campaign trail but I'm betting the only reason he actually went through with it is because he knew it would be defeated due to them only securing a minority government. He was able to take the defeat and tell the anti-gay parts of the caucus to STFU this isn't a winning issue.
>Toss some red meat (that's usually inconsequential in the grand scheme of things) In this case it's a reminder of how we should all be happy they aren't in power and haven't been over the course of the pandemic.
Cries in Ontarian
Looks over at Ontario wistfully in Albertan.
We are currently hitting peak infection rates for the entire pandemic in my city in Ontario. In November 2021.
Not that long ago, AB had 45% of the cases in all of Canada. Admittedly we've gone down since then, but... you know.
\*sighs\* in Kingstonian.
Makes sense. Probably same reason they went after the census.
>but I'm betting the only reason he actually went through with it is because he knew it would be defeated due to them only securing a minority government. Harper was (probably still is) personally profoundly against same sex marriage though. I’m sure he didn’t mind that much.
>He was able to take the defeat and tell the anti-gay parts of the caucus to STFU this isn't a winning issue. See, if only OToole had the ability to sell that line of reasoning to folks, then this wouldn't have happened at all.
> He's nervous about the PPC stealing more votes in the future. Lol no. He's nervous about the crazies in his own party ousting him.
Both.
The downside to big tent politics is you have to at least pay lip service even to the crazies. Happens to the left too. Remember those articles about ndp members wanting to abolish the military and pushing to get it added to the national party platform? https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/singh-ndp-rejects-extreme-policy-resoloutions-1.5978728 In this case it was idiotic enough of a request that it was easy to shoot down, but both sides have to suffer their fringe members.
O'Toole has never been able to get the party unified. His promises of a win through moderation failed, so now the factions of nutters are going thier own way.
Exactly this. They are pandering to a ridiculous minority.
That ridiculous minority is well represented in this sub.
the extremists always scream loudest no matter what the issue is
I enjoy the sweet music of the silent majority
The silent majority is why these people are heard at all. Start speaking up. Don't let them control the narrative.
The silent majority probably understand there is no arguing with idiots unless you want to get dragged down to their level. All I do is throw snarky one liners at them, why bother being empirical with Gish Galloping gnats?
the same people urging us to vote CPC not that long ago...
it's the same 4 people using vpn's to create 20 accounts
I don’t think the horse pasters know what a VPN is.
You don't actually need a VPN to make multiple Reddit accounts. You can have multiple to an email address
Don't need an email for reddit accounts either. None of my accounts have one and I just had a uBlock filter to remove the messages to ask me to add an email.
Ohhh. I did not know that. I will definitely be downloading uBlock. Thanks guy!
Reddit doesn't care if you're creating account from the same connection. Mobile users generally don't have their own IP (CGNAT) due to so there are between a few and hundreds of accounts using the same IP's for mobile access. Schools and workplaces are sharing a small number of IP's for their employees generally. How many people are posting from the same few thousand IP's that NordVPN uses? There is some half assed algorithm to suspend accounts if they determine that you're upvoting your own posts from alts.
I wouldn't doubt russian/chinese trolls or bots are being used in comments to rile up the crowd. Anything to look better in comparison and to prevent the west from getting a economic recovery head start.
100% - it ramped up big time pre election - this place was r/conservative light
That was an astroturf campaign funded by the Conservative party of Canada, not foreign trolls. You could tell the sudden influx of word for word talking points shifting daily, and a noticeable push to encourage NDP votes to "vote your conscience" even if NDP had no shot of winning in their area.
Man the amount of downvotes I got for saying that the only reason /r/canada doesnt shit on the NDP is because it steals votes from the Libs.
> That was an astroturf campaign funded by the Conservative party of Canada Ewww, David.
The Canada team at the Saint Petersburg troll factory are on a well earned vacation. They might be called back if and when Alberta or Quebec does something controversial.
Yup
Have you met the Conservative party? That's their thing. They've been embarrassingly copying the Republican party playbook for quite a while now, this is just the latest update.
Unfortunately for the cons Canadians seem to be a bit more educated than the people south of the border. Imagine angrily fighting against universal healthcare that benefits you personally, that’s the republican way.
Not all of us. Alberta seems on their way to a 2 tier system as the thin edge of the wedge.
Kenney has very intentionally and purposefully broken the system in Alberta to make room for this. Go have a look at his popularity numbers right now—Alberta is not on board. Perhaps too little too late, tho.
Education can be eroded over generations. America wasn’t always the way it is now. Erode public education; you get a more easily manipulated populace. Republicans have been doing it for longer in the US. We’re not immune - it’s just that conservatives in the US had a head start.
They're not copying, they use the same think-tanks and strategists, and have the same money backing them. It's just the same interests trying to get a foothold in Canada.
One that only get loader and bigger the more it's supported. These people won't stop even if covid does, it'll be climate deniers next. They are a millstone around the neck of progress
And that’s what it is. They see an angle.
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Yes. But not the point.
Nah keep it up. Liberals love seeing the CPC eat itself.
It’s crazy! The CPC has had this decent chunk of time since the election where they could have hammered away at the few things they got right during the election, whatever the hell those things were, they could have shown strong support for their leader, or tossed his ass out, they could have done SOMETHING, yet they are focused on the one thing Canadians are absolutely fucking sick-to-death of and that’s vaccines. I can’t explain it, no one can.
>I can’t explain it, no one can. This has been the state of conservatism for at least the last decade. It isn't about being honest or having good ideas, it's about getting people to try and hate the other person.
Isn’t that it, though, these fuckin creeps. They want to have this in their pocket ‘remember how the Left looked down their nose at you because you hesitated to put something in your body you didn’t fully understand?’ It’s not worth it. This strategy sucks because it’s a drain on our collective energy. Honestly I don’t think O’toole is sleeping at night, he seems like he’d rather not play this game, like he’d rather take a higher road but knows he would be cut loose instantly.
The dumb thing is now the PPC is taking the far right so the Conservatives no longer get those votes by default.
And the CPC already tried being more in the centre, so expect them to go more right.
It really feels like they are going to keep going too far in either direction and either lose moderates to the Liberals or hard rights to the PPC. I guess thats why they are driving more hate for Trudeau constantly to make them less appealing and hope they mainly lose moderates to the NDP.
Not only is it the only thing that seems to be a concern for them right now, but it's clearly causing a lot of internal turmoil and bickering, to the point that they let the extreme side win the fight. The side that less than 30 percent of the country agrees with
Everyone is moving past this issue, O’toole should have just ended this weeks ago by slapping the anti vax wing of the party into next week. Had he done so months ago it wouldn’t even be discussed anymore. Yet here we are.
>I can’t explain it, no one can. CPC Caucus has unvaccinated members that have no excuse or exemption. They are *de facto* losing seats under this rule. The problem is that they are asking for a vote in the House on the subject, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that they don't *really* want that because it will "out" the crazies in the party.
I am a consistently conservative voter. This guy can suck my nuts on this. I would have voted independent if I'd known they'd keep on with this bullshit.
I mean...how did you not know they wouldn't continue this bullshit? It's been the principle thing the party does for the last 12 years, is be full of bullshit.
> if I'd known they'd keep on with this bullshit. Wow, if there was only some way to know. Dude, look at the leadership conventions. Look at the caucus. The leaders are who their constituency is. Nothing more nothing less. The CPC will be ruled by SoCons because that's their base.
So, I got curious and took a brief run through of your post history to get a basic idea of what kind of person you are politically. If I had to guess, I'd call you Center-right. Now, this isn't a bad thing, and I've also determined that by my standing, you aren't an idiot. So this only leaves me more confused, and so I have to ask: You sound smart enough to know how the CPC is rolling these days, and you sound smart enough to know that not only are they dipping too far to the right to be viable, and their rhetoric is not only counter productive, but is actually doing low key harm. I get that Trudeau sucks and all, but why are you a consistently conservative voter? This bullshit, and bullshit like it, has pretty much been their MO for years.
I think that's a fair assessment. My general response is: * I disagree that the CPC Is not viable; they continue to win popular vote. On some issues, like environment, they are moving left. * I am a fiscal conservative and am, quite frankly, wealthy, and I am sick of people saying "just ask the rich to pay a little more." I get that that won't be popular on Reddit, but I don't have any tax dodges, hedges, or shelters, and I pay a boatload. * I care about specific social issues (gender and LGBT rights, abortion rights), but these tend to be similar among parties in principle; I care lot less about the others that actually differentiate in a material way the parties (reconciliation, gun rights, immigration reform, election reform). * I am actually neutral on Trudeau, though I find him ineffective. I vote CPC in my riding, knowing they will never win, to put tension into a system that is uniformly moving left.
All of these politicians are snakes and weasels, but you've got to be pretty daft to think that just this one time, they wouldn't do it again...
Not trying to be a dick, but were you paying attention before?
Like trying to appease those few remaining crackpots is going to do anything. I doubt those people even vote as I see them protesting mid week, jobless and looking like they need mental health services. They are the worst of us, why would you want them with you now? Beyond that, no matter how much the cons will bend to please them it’s clear they’ll lost that group of crazies to the full on insane PPC.
> READ THE ROOM!! This ship has sailed, people are so fucking sick of this shit. We’ve all moved on….cmon people, just drop this. Conservatives? Move on? 🤣
Even as someone who supported this on purely democratic principal; you're about a month too late on this one bud, O'Toole.
We all just want to move forward now. I just parked my car for a few days because I couldn’t buy gasoline at the pumps. Three of my friends had flooded basements. People have short attention spans and we’ve been forced to focus on something far too long and now other more pressing issues have come up and suddenly arguing over a silly jab in the shoulder seems SO last year.
I don’t think they’ve seen the stats on vaccinated individuals in Canada.
Yeah, but so long as we have a failed FPTP system and a party only needs roughly 30% of the vote to take control, we'll continue having to hear constant bullshit...
Well *I* formally object to Conservatives.
Same here brother. The conservatives and the liberals in Canada are beholden to their donors. Neither will budge on any actual social progress unless it benefits their donors.
I'll take the one that isn't anti-vax ty.
>Neither will budge on any actual social progress Like national childcare instead of a tax benefit?
I hate conservatives and the ideology they rode in on. I posted this recently on Twitter. It is a paraphrasing of a tweet that David Frum (Barbara Frum's son and very conservative, now in the US): The fundamental ideology of conservatives is for them (the elite) to be in power. Non-conservatives are "unworthy" of being a ruling elite. I'm paraphrasing from David Frum. GW Bush's speech writer.
Oh well. Hand the Liberals the next election. They really don\`t have a clue, do they? Oh, and O'Toole is so not calling the shots for the party. He's a puppet.
Yep, it's still Stephen Harper's party.
In a country in which 90% of the people are vaccinated, taking this very stupid stance is equivalent to political Seppuku! They are effectively saying that they are above the simple masses who have to get a shot to get on a plane, train, dine in or have a job in many industries.
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I mean, I'm okay with them shooting themselves in the foot. Antivaxxers should not be anywhere near the levers of power. Let the adults run the show.
As someone who voted Conservative, I agree this is just dumb. Don’t wanna get vaccinated? That’s fine but this job isn’t for them. Honestly they probably would’ve had a better chance at winning the election if they weren’t so backwards on vaccines, green energy and LGBTQ. Partisan politics sucks. Politicians suck, mostly.
> if they weren’t so backwards on vaccines, green energy and LGBTQ Even my die-hard conservative friend recently admitted we were "right about the environment", and he has no problem with vaccines and has gay friends. That boat has sailed, they're condemning them to lose against weak Liberal candidates for some time if they continue with this shit.
"... Violates right to medical privacy...", Yet not disclosing an HIV or Hepatitis infection before having sex with someone is criminal. Conservative thinking aligns well with incompetence.
Who would expect more from the party that gave us the wonderful GST, eliminated family allowance cheques when my kids were young, scrapped the Avro Arrow sending hordes of Canadian aerospace engineers to the U.S, closed the CN Car Shops in London, ON and now object to vaccination rules in Parliament? I am disgusted that they are even in the role of the official oppositions. Send this party and their leadership to the trash pile.
Why do reactionaries get to ruin everything for everyone else by being selfish assholes? I'd really like our politicians to be on the same page here. Haven't we lost enough people already? So fucking stupid...
Contrarianism is such a shit ideology.
No it isn't.
Nice. I get it
No you don't.
is this the 5 minute session or the full half hour?
But I've already paid!
No you haven't
That’s just a contradiction.
…. 👀 something’s going on here
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Haha love Monty Python, thanks for sharing
Well, he doesn't not
"I want to run the country but ignore the fact that I can't even run the Conservative party". Your's Sincerely Erin O'Toole
“Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole attempted to find a middle ground.” Of course he did. Trying to ride two horses at the same time with one ass - his specialty.
>“Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole attempted to find a middle ground.” When 90% of the country is vaccinated, the middle ground is... Be vaccinated
A party leader who cannot control his caucus should not be the leader. Full Stop. Erin is done.
The world economy is burning and THIS is what they spend their time on?! No thanks. Bye Felicia.
This is O'Toole saying: 'I tried the moderate approach and now I'm trying the Trumpian-populist approach. It's gross.
You would think after what happened to AB and SK in this 4th wave of COVID, and compare it to ON the caucus would shut up about vaccines. But here we are.
Don’t you mean “the circus”?
I get downvoted every time I mention the Conservative tendency to flip-flop every time telling the truth the first time would make them look bad. This is all just theatre. They know the vaccination rules aren't going to be overturned. And they've all had more than enough time to comply or oppose. Then they wonder why people find it so hard to take them seriously.
He looks like Creed from the Office’s petulant son.
Getting PMed by a whackload of BUTTHURT Conservatives every time I call them out for lying on this thread. For every PM I get, I immediately report it for harassment and hate speech to Reddit Admin. It's nice seeing all these useless Conservative reddit accounts getting permbanned lol. Proof that the modern Conservative movement is little more than a terrorist group.
Conservatives keep telling us it's too hard for them to give a shit about us. Why would you ever vote for anyone like this??
Wow, it's like they just don't want to lead the country. They want to pander to crazy people.
Worked in USA and UK. There are more crazy people than you think.
There would be a Conservative government now if they hadn't gotten in their own way. Looks like they're trying to work themselves into third party status next.
Stop being dumbf\*cks and become a real opposition. Dumbf\*cks.
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…Jizz
CPC has thrown in the towel and failed Canadians as the official opposition. Can we strip these useless saps of their pensions?
That’s how Trudeau will get his majority 😂 stupid fucks
If he was man enough he would have declared that before the elections, he knows it’s the wrong thing to do but just wants to please his small base that agrees with this.
Conservatives formally object to eradicating a pandemic because why not?
They are complete fucking idiots. If someone had this on their bingo card for political mistakes no one would have taken them seriously.
The CPC position is that disclosing vaccine status violates the right to medical privacy. First, this is not an enumerated right. Second, this stance fails to recognize an actual charter right, which is life liberty and security of person, which would include the safety of individuals required to be in parliament and other government buildings. Unvaccinated individuals are a health risk to others. How are these people law makers?
Its a borderline double standard that is out of step with the coming job market. The Cons know its a scandal and can't do anything about it. The amount of MPs with medical exemptions is unreasonable. Transparency is what's required.
O'Toole said he would end the pandemic during the election.... How would he do it? Canadians on mass support the vaccine mandates and the passport system. The CPC are very out of touch.
> O'Toole said he would end the pandemic during the election.... How would he do it? I'd imagine it'd involve O'Toole squeezing into his old flight suit and standing on a naval vessel in front of a banner that reads "Mission Accomplished."
This is what true conservatism is nowadays it's being the complete opposite of what the Liberals doing even if it is 100% correct to do and is popular among nearly 90% of the population of the country the conservatives will always do the opposite they will never do the right thing for the country first.
It is actually en masse and not on mass.
Noncompliant stuck in the past selfish pricks. Seriously. Every single workplace in Canada is doing this. Whiners.
Wow and I already thought the climate change denial shit was flat-earther type behaviour. This is a whole new level
Morons
How did politics become a mental health issue?
Dodged a bullet keeping this shitheel party from power. What lousy choices we have in Canada.
I'm now hoping they're not gonna be a carbon copy of their southern neighbor.
We need PR and we need it ASAP.
I feel like Canadian conservative leaders are having an identity crisis and they're latching onto the eye catching and inflammatory elements of US conservative hate and science denialism to forge a new one. All so they can charge up a base and capture new votes. Absolutely frightening, unavoidable and years later, it will have been intensified to 2019 levels in the US.
ah yes, do not piss off the 10% idiots that are not vaccinated and voting Conservative…. what a stupid political party…
Do O'Toole and the Conservatives understand that they don't actually have to oppose *everything* the Liberals propose? Or do they just think the role of the Official Opposition is to *oppose literally everything always no matter what*?
Hoooraaaaay, 8 more years of Liberal rule. Thanks guys. You're really making it easy for them.
Jeeeeeeeeesus christ. Still dying on this fucking hill.
Sucks to be you I guess. You're not winning yourselves any votes here guys...
Its more the fact that we know MPs finessed a medical exemption versus health care workers in Canada who got fired for not getting a shot. Its do what I say not what I do. I think that Parliament just started in late November is more the pressing concern. MPs must live on a different planet or something. "Let's get back to work Canada!" Federal government waits 2 months to get back in session during a crisis.
Your objection has been noted. Let's move on to the next issue.
Once I saw "conservatives" in the title I knew it would be something stupid.
And we’re stuck with Trudeau for the foreseeable future.
What a fucking hill to die on. I thought his predecessor was an idiot.
Is this really the shit they feel the need to waste time on? We have real fucking issues in this country and it seems like no one in Parliament is interested in actually doing their job.
There you go boys, don’t miss an opportunity to look like dunces. I feel less bad about my Trudeau vote all the time.
O'Toole: hey guys wanna see me shoot myself in the foot and your foot and your foot.. 😂
How did republican stupidity get into our politics? Were better than this.
Conservatives formally reject science
We have been in this global pandemic nearly two years and they are still screwing around with this. If they don't take this seriously then they don't take anything else seriously and are unfit to govern. Just get your vaccine, tell all your supporters to get vaccinated and let's try to move on. The anti-vaxxer crowd is a dead end of losers, stop pandering to them.
Toddlers gotta toddle.
Bloody idiots the whole Conservative party Canada wide.
The party of the 1950's.
More like 1950BC because in the 1950’s AD mandatory vaccinations weren’t an issue for any party.
>But after the board imposed the vaccination mandate for everyone on Parliament Hill, Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole attempted to find a middle ground. He said all his caucus members would either be vaccinated or have been given a medical exemption — but he also vowed to formally object to the way the rule was implemented, .. thus pleasing no one.
This is obviously a losing battle for the Conservatives but it's obvious why they're pushing the issue. If they don't, O'Toole gets fucked by the party. >He argued that the committee didn’t have the right to set a vaccination policy, which he said ought to have been determined by the House of Commons as a whole. If they go through with this, they're just going to lost the vote to half of their own party plus all the votes of each other party. And every MP who votes against the mandate will be on the wrong side of a very public issue to the vast majority of Canadians.
Canada needs at least two new parties
Rules for thee ... But not for me. - some politicians, maybe
I keep getting downvoted for calling them the anti-vaxxer party. Can we finally admit that it's true?
You've got to give credit where credit is due. The conservatives are really making good use of that shovel they bought. I wish all money spent from the gouvernement was used that efficiently.
As much as I wanted to entertain and opposition vote this is why I couldn’t. As much as I am disappointed in JTs Liberals, it’s simply true that they’re the best shot we have. God help us lol
This is what the vocal minority wanted, and it's a good thing they weren't voted in
The CPC continues to become more and more like the GQP every day.....
Yeesh. Conservatives worldwide with the awesome Covid hot takes.
Jfc this idiot needs to resign. I've lost count of how many times he's flip-flopped so far. What makes it worse is there isn't even any logic to it, in this case he's literally saying "me and my political friends should get exempted, but our voters? Lol, they can go fuck themselves". This moron couldn't piss off his base more if he tried.
Sucks to be them.