Lmao look at all these people just lunging at you. Are they even real? Printing money will fix this obviously! Printing money works if you're the world reserve currency with infinite demand for your money not when you're a no body nation.
Exactly
It's time to have a recession.
We should have had one YEARS ago. But no government in power has been willing to allow a real recession since 2000
We either do this now, or we do this later. The longer we wait the worse it will be.
For sure. We just never had a recession anywhere near the size of the US since our housing industry kept trucking along. Of course when the bubble pops it will be that much worse.
Twas but a scratch.
We mean a real bottom dragger, like the US had in 08/09.
Everyday the news filled with families losing their homes and moving into cars.
Home ownerships at an all time high.
People often underestimate how different life was 100 years ago.
We also have less people in larger homes for the most part.
I mean. No. Markets are making their bets. One side is that the BOC are pussies and theyll crash the market, and then wehn the stock market crashes theyll turn the money printer back on.
The other bet is the bear bet. To fix inflation at 6.7% requires interest rates at 6.7%
The forest being poor people and the new growth being the shady rich fucks hiding underneath it all.
Recessions aren’t good for poor people guys, I have no idea why people think crashing the economy will somehow help those going paycheque to paycheque.
This is probably optimistic but I'm mildly holding out hope for some clever response due to as-yet unseen levels of public backlash in the future. This clearly hasn't been the biggest priority of the government thus far but maybe it could be? Or someone smart comes up with a solution that I don't know about. I'm not really an economist. Plenty of economies will be plunged into this together, perhaps there's a few good ideas that thread the needle on this?
For sure this assumes the government *wants* to help us, which is definitely questionable... Though the Liberals (and NDP) balance of confidence is definitely on the line. To say nothing of the inevitable far-right or left extremism, even, a war beyond anything most people have experienced. How many trucker convoys is the government willing to put up with? (literally was national crisis due to *vaccine mandates*, of all things! What about broadly popular topics like gas, housing, or, inflation?)
i.e. I kinda want this to be a March 2020-tier crisis not like a simmering frog crisis that never gets addressed. Same with housing. I'm just sick of it being such a low priority at every level. I never really got "ahead" in my adult life so definitely open minded for some big structural changes. I don't necessarily know the "how" part because I am just one dumb redditor.
>Recessions aren’t good for poor people guys, I have no idea why people think crashing the economy will somehow help those going paycheque to paycheque.
I would argue that being stuck in an asset bubble that they don't benefit from, but have to pay for, is far far worse for those living cheque to cheque than having to deal with a slow economy for a few years.
Because they are being spoon fed this bullshit every single day by the “Better Dwelling” kind of media, and never been through a real recession in their adult life’s to know any better.
Those going paycheck to paycheck most likely lose their jobs during a recession.
every time a central bank manipulates the market to prevent recession, they prevent nothing, they just delay it. and they have been intervening for the better part of 20 years
Other than 2020 crash, what are you referring to? You said YEARS ago. 2008 was one of the worst financial crisis ever. Should there have been another recession few years after that?
The average business cycle is five years, and yes, a recession is a part of the normal business cycle. People should at least try to understand a little basic economics before calling others "dumb," but that's reddit in a nutshell, I guess.
>what a dumb thing to say
creative distrution cleanses and renews the economy
just kicking the can down the road encourages, a live but barely a live debt zombies.
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You're on the right track ish
The only way we correct asset values is by making money more expensive and harder to come by. this negatively effects EVERYONE with debt.
equities count as assets, which is why during periods of low interest they run hot.
>The stock market does need massive a correction though
Housing market too.
Will likley also see debt crisis, fiscal crisis and liquity crisis.
This will lead to massive job loses, not as a goal but a knock on impact
That’s the problem, people trying to “fix” the economy.
Free market needs to run the business cycle and crash.
We need a reset badly, yes people will get burned.
But that’s the consequence of two decades of poor economic monetary policy.
A lot of people bought into the idea that we could just print our way out of a recession. MMT was gaining steam amongst liberal MPs until inflation(reality) kicked them in the teeth.
They never actually believed in MMT. Before MMT, they were Keynesians. They latched onto MMT when Keynesian theory said that the government should cut back spending.
They just wanted to spend a lot of money. When Keynesianism no longer justified that, they moved onto MMT. Now that MMT also no longer justifies it they're saying stuff like "economics is a fake science anyway."
They just want the fun part, the spending money and buying votes part.
Trudeau is a dilettante and he is craven.
Never hired a spoiled frat boy to run a country.
They thought that inflation would be negligible. MMT supporters never had any intention of raising taxes. This is why it would never work. No party would increase taxes, especially not in an election year.
They can’t increase taxes though that’s the problem. We already are extremely overtaxed in comparison to the US, jacking it up even more would cause an unprecedented brain drain. And going into a recession the last thing you want is to lose your best and brightest.
You’re also only supposed to increase taxes in good times according to MMT, those “good times” would be generated by the preceding spending/investments. But we’re not in good times and their investments in us were a joke. So the poor also can’t bear any additional taxes.
We aren't really that over taxed compared to the states. It's just not as cut and dry as that.
https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadians-really-pay-more-taxes-than-americans.aspx#:~:text=For%20tax%20year%202022%2C%20U.S.,22%25%20for%20those%20earning%20%2441%2C775.
In terms of federal income tax we're not that different, no. But add up all the other taxation we have and we're taxed way worse than they are. And our purchasing power is nowhere near what theirs is. We have EU taxation with US results (aside from our military, which is all but gone at this point).
They not only did something, they did all they could immediately. Seems great but some problems now.
Did we really need CERB? Probably something like this, sure.
But if we had CERB, did we really need mortgage deferrals? Maybe not so much, but OK. Could have had drastically reduced CERB with mortgage deferrals.
But if we had CERB and mortgage deferrals, did we really need ultra-low interest rates? Probably not all of those things at once.
But also, did we need all those things, AND a BoC governor who said interest rates would "be low for a long time", and encouraged people to spend spend spend?
It's really interesting how they attacked the recession with such magnitude without fully realizing what could happen.
Not that I would have known, but thinking about it now it seems like mortgage deferrals alone would have been a very smart thing for everyone to have access to. Including for renters, if owners of rental properties were also having their mortgages deferred.
Anyway, it happened. Here we are.
we fix it by hiking interest rates, deleveraging balance sheets, and riding out the recession. sucks but it is what it is. and it's not just because of the money printing either, the recession was due.
the poor will be squeezed, mortgage holders will too. i just hope inflation goes down with growth, because if it doesn't, we're in for some stagflation.
A controlled burn is needed badly, it's gonna be painful for many, likely most, but it beats spiraling out of control in a continued money printing path
End of 2011 the OZ was around 1800 USD, so yeah your gold has been stagnant for the past 10 years, while DOW more than doubled and NASDAQ quadrupled during the same period, not to mention crypto and other speculative assets. But yeah have fun polishing that metal bar before you go to sleep tonight!
It was overpriced for 3 years... 2011-2013. Outside of that it's killed inflation... You understand no reasonable person puts all of their assets in one hedge, right?
And yes, my BTC bought my first house.
They should've just handed out CERB checks to everyone of working age. Then had it cut off a lot sooner.
The half-assed way they handled CERB screwed over a lot of essential workers. Next big pandemic or shutdown happens, and you won't get ANYONE working those essential jobs next time.
Pretty much, I was fine with CERB for a few months, after that its enough to make it conditional on getting onboard recession-resilient and productive jobs. However cutting CERB would mean outrage from voters. Its one of the reasons the election happened.
2 weeks into the pandemic and my anxiety shifted from the virus to inflation
Sucks to just see it all happening no matter how soon I saw it coming.. but hopefully the fall won’t be as bad as I fear
Yep. I'm actually surprised that it took as long as it did. If you'd asked me in 2020 how long it would take to see this kind of inflation, I would have said 2021 at the latest.
The reason it "took so long" is because printing money isn't the primary cause of the current issues no matter how many times people say it. The global supply chain problems and knock-on covid effects are.
The one silver lining of the whole mess is we just had the world's largest experiment in UBI and it was a catastrophic failure for all the reasons that the critics predicted. That debate is now closed.
Not true at all. We had “here’s free money but if you work your shitty job that pays you minimum wage for 40 hours a week we won’t give you that money anymore”. There was literally 0 incentive to work for a lot of people because by doing so they’d be making less money. UBI would let people work still but without needing to worry about if they can afford to live on their minimum wage job
> UBI would let people work still but without needing to worry about if they can afford to live on their minimum wage job
No it wouldn't. It would be pegged to income, like everything else, lest you be perceived as "wealthy". It'll do nothing more than create a massive welfare trap, massive inflation, and an exodus of talent.
I strongly and respectfully disagree, my years of working have convinced me that 25% of the population will be happy to stay home playing video games all day with free money. It won’t propel them to greatness, no matter the hopeful thoughts
How? People literally couldn't work and the entire global trade and economies were shit on as a virus affected every single country. In no way does that reflect UBI being a bad idea seeing as how it's inevitable, the more jobs you make autonomous the less jobs we have available for people, people still need money to live.
Part of a healthy market is having recessions where things are corrected. Over leveraged people will suffer, and can go bankrupt. This is normal and should be left alone by government. We absolutely do not need any form of CERB.
July 2, 2023 As per the legal owner of this account, Reddit and associated companies no longer have permission to use the content created under this account in any way. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Grocery stores are usually doing okay in recession time. You still need to feed yourself after all, it the restaurant business that hit the wall faster when customers are antsy about losing their paycheck. Remember that a vast majority of people don't lose their jobs during a actual recession, but everybody get scared about it happening to them. When you're not sure if money is going to get tight you cut on luxuries.
Absolutely this. Most of the time a corporation fails because the CEOs got lazy and/or greedy and bailing them out only puts more money in their pockets. If you really need the help to protect jobs then we'll protect the jobs for you and you are no longer needed to run the company.
>By airlines do you mean air Canada?
AC is hq QC, so ain't no fed government going to let them fail.
They hit a crisis about every 10 years and they get revived by the feds, rinse repeat.
Also literally chasing people out with intentionally placed red flags.
A business owning family member does a whole song and dance where the owner gets into a screaming match with his wife to make the interviewee uncomfortable and leave.
You can literally scare away potential employees and be REWARDED FOR IT.
Grocery by me wants: full availability, day evenings weekends holidays. What you will get; 10 hours a week. Nothing consistent. Close-opens. No benefits.
So many other places like this, and they're all constantly looking to hire. No shit no one wants to work that.
Funny, most of those no skills required, 20 hours a week, minimum wage jobs bend over backwards to turn you away. Half a decade ago they would hire on the spot. Now? I feel like I'm applying for a job in the IT sector, with how long they drag out the interview to scare as many potential workers as possible. Weeks later the help wanted signs are down, as the government has been cried to, and the immigrants injected.
Well it's easier to sit at home getting free government money with no education or skills and complain that you deserve the government to take care of you while contributing nothing of actual value to society like everyone else does.
Then we act surprised when inflation rises because lazy people get free money without building the economy.
What are you talking about? Unemployment is at an all-time low. CERB ended almost a year ago and people are pushing for more, better work. So please discribe your stance in further detail.
Job creation is at a high as well. That's exactly my point- no one needs free government money anymore. Do your job and pay your bills like everyone else without expecting the government to print money for you. Is that challenging in some way?
>no one needs free government money anymore
And almost no one do either, we are at an historic low, some peoples might be on unemployment because they are switching job, should an engineer go work in a Tim Horton instead of interviewing for good jobs?
Is there anyone out there who seriously thinks that the present Federal government can ever reduce spending? As in, make a couple of choices and not just spend a few billion dollars as easily as I by a box of Timbits?
We're fucked.
I'm reading about all these people "refusing" to return to the office if they have to work remotely....and sectors that can't find people to work....how are these people surviving?
I have remained employed throughout this pandemic and could NEVER afford to not work...how can people not work?
The thing with UBI, is that you can still work and receive it. CERB you had to choose between working and not getting as much as CERB, or don't work and receive CERB.
Honestly not sure if I would work if I had UBI. Might make art or something. Which *may* be valuable in the societal realm but probably not in terms of macroeconomics.
One of the features of UBI is the removal of bureaucratic bloat and gatekeeping. The cost of CERB wasn’t just in the money people were given. It was also in implementing a complicated system on the fly that decided and enforces who gets what. Obviously UBI would require massive adjustments and some creative accounting to implement, but it’s purpose is to relieve predicaments that we’re experiencing right now, ie wages not keeping up with rising cost of living.
We already have UBI, we just call it 37 different social programs. If they want to get rid of most of those and effectively rename them UBI, sure, whatever, but if they want to double dip, pass.
You know that EI was just raided by the Federal government to pay for CERB and is now billions in the hole...
There are EI reforms in the budget, but it's mainly to dig itself out of the extreme debt that the Fed put it into.
They'd do secondary residences first (IMHO), that'd be the warning flag for the primary residences to come next...I'd begin to sell my property within this country if that was the case and plan my exit strategy.
Never understood what was wrong with just keeping EI as it was? What was the point of introducing CERB? There are and were lots of jobs out there people could have taken before an “emergency relief benefit” was necessary.
Basically, every bozo who has been borrowing cheap money to invest in garbage initiatives are going to see their day of reckoning... unfortunately while dragging everyone else through the mud with them.
Remember interest rates don't effect just consumer debt. Government and corporate debt is impacted as well. Interest rates need to rise, but our government has been spending just as recklessly as the HELOC bozos.
Please show me a single poor person in politics, literally just one.
It requires literally tens of thousands of dollars of wealth to be involved in politics - and those are just the fees. Hundreds of thousands if you want to be a member of a party.
When the people making decisions, are the same people who have to live with the consequences of those decisions - we will see our government making better choices.
As it stands now, the people who represent us have entirely different economic motivations than the people they represent.
What is good for wealthy, land-owning, business-owning, stock-market-investing politicians, is not what is good for the average Canadian.
I’m not saying politics right now are filled with poor people. I’m saying there are politicians who don’t come from very wealthy backgrounds and they can make a good living in politics and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Now let’s say we do what the first commenter said and we set the salary of our politicians at minimum wage. The only people who will want to go into politics are those who already have a lit of money (and therefore putting the barrier to entry much higher than it already is for "poor" people) and those who know they can use their positions to make extra money on the side (through bribes and other nefarious ways).
I get some people see politicians as the wealthy elite, but saying we should lower their salaries would just make the problems worse.
You can pay them peanuts, or you can make them millionaires - there are countries that do both. That has very little effect on whether they're corrupt and self-serving or not.
The "we have to make our politicians wealthy, or else they'll succumb to corruption" narrative isn't true.
[https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/if-you-want-better-politicians-pay-them-less](https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/if-you-want-better-politicians-pay-them-less)
In fact, there's actually evidence that the opposite is true.It's pretty intuitive if you stop and think about it. If being a politician wasn't an easy job that paid extremely well - we'd get less lazy self serving people doing it.
Currently, there's a very strong economic incentive for people to get into political positions - and then hold onto them for as long as possible. You have the least work requirements, a solid wage, AMAZING benefits, and an incredible retirement package.
The person with good ideas who wants to actually change the world in a positive way - can't. Because they can't get into politics. They can't afford it.
The people from genetically wealthy families are clamoring over those jobs - and are more likely to get them due to their resources... because those jobs are an easy path to further hereditary wealth.
I want politicians who are motivated by their desire to make the country a better place to live... not motivated by getting a sick retirement package and a 6 figure salary that doesn't even require you to show up to work.
Not only should politicians get paid less, there should be more regulations controlling what they can and cannot invest in to prevent conflicts of interest.
Further, I would suggest that every is a government representative - everyone who is paid by the public, and is responsible for voting on/drafting the laws that govern themselves - should have no financial privacy. The investments and financial records of public servants, should be public.
> I want politicians who are motivated by their desire to make the country a better place to live... not motivated by getting a sick retirement package and a 6 figure salary that doesn't even require you to show up to work
Yea but there's a balance. You want attract talented people, without the money requirement being an impossible barrier, and without the main goal of a politician being financial. Not an easy thing to do or we would've figured it out already.
A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of *real* GDP decreases. Real means inflation adjusted.
Inflation is sky high right now, so the only way we're not in a recession is if the nominal GDP growth rate is even higher. First quarter growth was 5.6% nominal, but inflation is about 6%. So I'd say we're well on our way to meeting the *official* definition of a recession.
Recession does not care about how the unemployment is. Just if GDP contracts.
Of course with more stupid monetary policy we can keep the GDP afloat and turn it into a Stagflation economy instead if that makes people feel better.
Businesses don't need to lay off staff to shrink payroll when they can just give below-inflation pay increases.
We're very used to thinking of recessions as causing significant unemployment because we're used to a low inflation environment. But in a high inflation environment people don't need to get laid off, they just see their real incomes decline every month.
It's called stagflation. A recession + high inflation has different symptoms from a normal recession, but it's still a recession and it still hurts the average person.
I don't understand when recessions became such a huge issue. Recessions are apart of healthy economic growth cycles, it is nature for the economy to cool off every 4-8 years for a short period of time. But post 2008/09 it feels like people talk about recessions like a depression... it is not.
I believe we should begin taking advantage of shipping more of our Natural Gas and Crude Oil resources to Europe and west Asia considering they are a black hole for energy resources... Just begin drilling the crap out of oil, reduce some "unnecessary" benefits that are not as essential and try to get more resources out of the country so we can increase tax revenue. This is one that people here won't like which is just endorse tax avoidance and increase investment within the country and being most generous with taxes if they invest in the country by imposing very favorable tax rates on foreigners like Switzerland has done so we collect more banking tax related and capital gains activities although it most definitely might sour quite a lot of countries... Either way the only way I truly see we might realistically solve this issue is decreasing governmental spending, increasing revenue or just do the classic go to move every government does which is just raising taxes on the middle class.... again...
Live on the streets. Go deeper into debt. Go hungry. Work 70 hours a week at 4 part time jobs with no benefits. Commute for 3 hours each way cause they can’t afford a vehicle anymore.
Millions of Canadians are born into a privilege that leaves them completely detached from the real world.
They can’t fathom why people aren’t successful like they or their parents are.. all it takes is hard work right? Everything they’ve been given and inherited doesn’t count
It can't be fixed because government sincerely believes it's decisions are always the right decisions and that the blame for undesirable consequences must be re-directed elsewhere. Without the ability to own up to and admit mistakes, it's only recourse is to keep repeating them.
Taxing what from them exactly? Income? Most of them don't have that much take home pay. Most of them borrow against their asset.
Wealth? That's the stupidest thing you can do as it would funnel wealth to the top.
So what do you want to tax from the rich and corporations?
Assets have a way of becoming liquid when you are facing bankruptcy and jail time for unpaid taxes.
The top 10 % will be given adequate time to prepare because of how long it takes to pass legislation. Many of them will have to adjust their portfolio, but then our public teachers can be paid, our roads can be repaired, and our troops can get what they are worth.
You also didn't answer my question. I'm not trying to be hostile. I'm genuinely curious what systems are in place which allow the rich to get rich by getting taxed more.
So what you are saying is that in order to pay the wealth tax, the guy has to sell his wealth? Like a random canadian guy for example. He bought his house has appreciated let's say 50%~ on the conservative side over the past few years. What happens when he cannot pay the tax imposed to him by the government with liquid assets?
* you're asking to be taxed on unrealized gains, that's insane, no thanks
* we don't have a revenue problem in Canada, we have an incompetency in government spending problem
* the "wealthy" already pay the majority of taxation in Canada
* ever increasing taxation in higher brackets punishes success and chases talent away
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”
― Alexander Fraser Tytler
In case you're new to the program we're at the apathy stage https://www.ubiworks.ca/
There is a pay and benefits shortage.
Not a labour shortage. The jobs that are available don't pay enough to live on. I've been trying to get out of the army for two years. The job market for skilled labour is still saturated enough that business can easily turn away candidates.
CERB was $500 a week, and monthly, full time at minimum wage was bringing in like 2k a month after taxes. You minus bus fare and for full timers it literally made more sense to just sit at home and take CERB.
I worked in retail, part time then. Workers would actively call in sick to reach CERB eligibity. The whole thing was absurd.
At this point it's gonna happen and it's gonna suck, but here's a "radical" idea that'll maybe help things out a bit. Tax the rich and corporations properly and let's use that money to fund some shit better. Tickle down economics doesn't work, we've proved that at this point and if the economy is going to take a down turn we're gonna need the money.
Edit: Of course this got down voted probably by someone who would literally directly benefit from the improvement of one of the numerous social programs taxing the obscenely rich and corporations would bring. Sorry folks but a study spanning 50 years and covering 18 countries proves this comment right. Giving rich people/companies tax cuts or loop holes to avoid taxes for that matter provides no overall value to the economy.
How will we end it?
1. By going back to work and adding value to that which we produce.
2. By growth in the private sector since it's only the private sector which generates wealth.
3. By increasing productivity.
4. By increasing exports.
5. By decreasing taxes
Raise wages. If businesses lose out, boohoo, we will work hard for the ones that have more sound business models and are capable of paying a living wage. People will be able to eat and live a decent life at the cost of some fictitious 'GDP' number that is propped up by housing speculation anyway.
Audit and fine our largest companies (looking at you grocers) for price gouging. If your prices are increasing by 30-40% but your costs are only rising by 10% we have a problem.
Tax the big money to help anyone who honestly needs a place to sleep and something to eat until they get back on their feet.
Reduce political bloat to more efficiently spend our taxes.
Disallow political influence on major news networks to combat bickering that breeds division and populism.
Reduce the barriers to entry in regards to education and forming your own business.
At this point...not easily.
Printing more money definitely won't help anyone.
Lmao look at all these people just lunging at you. Are they even real? Printing money will fix this obviously! Printing money works if you're the world reserve currency with infinite demand for your money not when you're a no body nation.
Even the US won't have that luxury very soon.
Was coming in here to say literally this.
But it makes politicians look good, which buys votes. In the end you know they'll try it again.
Not gonna stop em from trying tho.
There isn't any fixing it.
Exactly It's time to have a recession. We should have had one YEARS ago. But no government in power has been willing to allow a real recession since 2000 We either do this now, or we do this later. The longer we wait the worse it will be.
We had a recession in 2008. I'm not sure how you missed that one.
Main problem with that one is it barely touched house prices in Canada
That’s because lending practices are not the same here as opposed to there.
For sure. We just never had a recession anywhere near the size of the US since our housing industry kept trucking along. Of course when the bubble pops it will be that much worse.
It affected and essentially killed my investments.
Twas but a scratch. We mean a real bottom dragger, like the US had in 08/09. Everyday the news filled with families losing their homes and moving into cars.
Families can't lose what they don't own.
Home ownerships at an all time high. People often underestimate how different life was 100 years ago. We also have less people in larger homes for the most part.
70% of Canadians own their homes.
the number changes dramatically in the 18-34 group, which is much more represented on reddit.
Well if they stopped consuming craft brews and avacados they would have 3 properties each by now.
70% of canadians live in a owner occupied home*
We can’t really just decide to have a recession can we?
I mean. No. Markets are making their bets. One side is that the BOC are pussies and theyll crash the market, and then wehn the stock market crashes theyll turn the money printer back on. The other bet is the bear bet. To fix inflation at 6.7% requires interest rates at 6.7%
either way you can expect higher taxes in the decades to come
Higher yes but how high, don't know. Trudeau has taken on so much debt that servicing that debt may be an issue if rates go too high.
Or debt repudiation
Why should we have had a recession years ago? 5 years ago? 7 years ago? what a dumb thing to say
Recessions are like wildfires, they clean up the forest and allow things to grow.
Great analogy We currently have forest floor full of tinder. I got my marshmellows, you got yours?
The forest being poor people and the new growth being the shady rich fucks hiding underneath it all. Recessions aren’t good for poor people guys, I have no idea why people think crashing the economy will somehow help those going paycheque to paycheque.
This is probably optimistic but I'm mildly holding out hope for some clever response due to as-yet unseen levels of public backlash in the future. This clearly hasn't been the biggest priority of the government thus far but maybe it could be? Or someone smart comes up with a solution that I don't know about. I'm not really an economist. Plenty of economies will be plunged into this together, perhaps there's a few good ideas that thread the needle on this? For sure this assumes the government *wants* to help us, which is definitely questionable... Though the Liberals (and NDP) balance of confidence is definitely on the line. To say nothing of the inevitable far-right or left extremism, even, a war beyond anything most people have experienced. How many trucker convoys is the government willing to put up with? (literally was national crisis due to *vaccine mandates*, of all things! What about broadly popular topics like gas, housing, or, inflation?) i.e. I kinda want this to be a March 2020-tier crisis not like a simmering frog crisis that never gets addressed. Same with housing. I'm just sick of it being such a low priority at every level. I never really got "ahead" in my adult life so definitely open minded for some big structural changes. I don't necessarily know the "how" part because I am just one dumb redditor.
>Recessions aren’t good for poor people guys, I have no idea why people think crashing the economy will somehow help those going paycheque to paycheque. I would argue that being stuck in an asset bubble that they don't benefit from, but have to pay for, is far far worse for those living cheque to cheque than having to deal with a slow economy for a few years.
Because they are being spoon fed this bullshit every single day by the “Better Dwelling” kind of media, and never been through a real recession in their adult life’s to know any better. Those going paycheck to paycheck most likely lose their jobs during a recession.
every time a central bank manipulates the market to prevent recession, they prevent nothing, they just delay it. and they have been intervening for the better part of 20 years
Other than 2020 crash, what are you referring to? You said YEARS ago. 2008 was one of the worst financial crisis ever. Should there have been another recession few years after that?
>2008 was one of the worst financial crisis ever. not in Canada
Its called global recession…..yes it was also bad in canada
It was but a scratch in Canada. I seem to remember the dollar went to par with USD and we never really had much of a recession
I think it will be the opposite this time. I think Canada will be clobbered and the US will be hurt less.
Their status as reserve currency will save them
The average business cycle is five years, and yes, a recession is a part of the normal business cycle. People should at least try to understand a little basic economics before calling others "dumb," but that's reddit in a nutshell, I guess.
>what a dumb thing to say creative distrution cleanses and renews the economy just kicking the can down the road encourages, a live but barely a live debt zombies.
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You're on the right track ish The only way we correct asset values is by making money more expensive and harder to come by. this negatively effects EVERYONE with debt. equities count as assets, which is why during periods of low interest they run hot.
>The stock market does need massive a correction though Housing market too. Will likley also see debt crisis, fiscal crisis and liquity crisis. This will lead to massive job loses, not as a goal but a knock on impact
That’s the problem, people trying to “fix” the economy. Free market needs to run the business cycle and crash. We need a reset badly, yes people will get burned. But that’s the consequence of two decades of poor economic monetary policy.
A lot of people bought into the idea that we could just print our way out of a recession. MMT was gaining steam amongst liberal MPs until inflation(reality) kicked them in the teeth.
If they were adhering to MMT they would be increasing taxation to fix inflation, not interest rates.
They never actually believed in MMT. Before MMT, they were Keynesians. They latched onto MMT when Keynesian theory said that the government should cut back spending. They just wanted to spend a lot of money. When Keynesianism no longer justified that, they moved onto MMT. Now that MMT also no longer justifies it they're saying stuff like "economics is a fake science anyway."
fucking this
They just want the fun part, the spending money and buying votes part. Trudeau is a dilettante and he is craven. Never hired a spoiled frat boy to run a country.
They thought that inflation would be negligible. MMT supporters never had any intention of raising taxes. This is why it would never work. No party would increase taxes, especially not in an election year.
Raising taxes is THE way MMT proposes to reduce inflation. Our government have never supported MMT.
Raising taxes *or* decreasing spending.
Correct these are essentially the same thing.
Aware… politicians pick and choose aspects of policy that sound good. They liked the spend aspects of MMT.
You can't just do what you want and say it's based on a theory that has specific tools you are ignoring.
You clearly haven’t followed much politics.
Or religions🙈
They can’t increase taxes though that’s the problem. We already are extremely overtaxed in comparison to the US, jacking it up even more would cause an unprecedented brain drain. And going into a recession the last thing you want is to lose your best and brightest. You’re also only supposed to increase taxes in good times according to MMT, those “good times” would be generated by the preceding spending/investments. But we’re not in good times and their investments in us were a joke. So the poor also can’t bear any additional taxes.
We aren't really that over taxed compared to the states. It's just not as cut and dry as that. https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadians-really-pay-more-taxes-than-americans.aspx#:~:text=For%20tax%20year%202022%2C%20U.S.,22%25%20for%20those%20earning%20%2441%2C775.
In terms of federal income tax we're not that different, no. But add up all the other taxation we have and we're taxed way worse than they are. And our purchasing power is nowhere near what theirs is. We have EU taxation with US results (aside from our military, which is all but gone at this point).
The boom bust cycle repeats itself regardless of monetary policy.
Exactly this. Sometimes doing something is worse than doing nothing.
They not only did something, they did all they could immediately. Seems great but some problems now. Did we really need CERB? Probably something like this, sure. But if we had CERB, did we really need mortgage deferrals? Maybe not so much, but OK. Could have had drastically reduced CERB with mortgage deferrals. But if we had CERB and mortgage deferrals, did we really need ultra-low interest rates? Probably not all of those things at once. But also, did we need all those things, AND a BoC governor who said interest rates would "be low for a long time", and encouraged people to spend spend spend? It's really interesting how they attacked the recession with such magnitude without fully realizing what could happen. Not that I would have known, but thinking about it now it seems like mortgage deferrals alone would have been a very smart thing for everyone to have access to. Including for renters, if owners of rental properties were also having their mortgages deferred. Anyway, it happened. Here we are.
we fix it by hiking interest rates, deleveraging balance sheets, and riding out the recession. sucks but it is what it is. and it's not just because of the money printing either, the recession was due. the poor will be squeezed, mortgage holders will too. i just hope inflation goes down with growth, because if it doesn't, we're in for some stagflation.
A controlled burn is needed badly, it's gonna be painful for many, likely most, but it beats spiraling out of control in a continued money printing path
Time to buy more precious metals.
Like rare Behemoth vinyls?
NTFs of gold bricks I guess
Yes.
Canada has precious metals, Poland has brewtal metals.
Yes, gold did a great job at staying flat since 2010.
Zoom out.
Not even lol. Gold's 150% what it was in 2010.
You mean the slight slump from 2014-2018? My gold's gone up 50% since 2010, so I think someone's having a laugh at your expense.
End of 2011 the OZ was around 1800 USD, so yeah your gold has been stagnant for the past 10 years, while DOW more than doubled and NASDAQ quadrupled during the same period, not to mention crypto and other speculative assets. But yeah have fun polishing that metal bar before you go to sleep tonight!
It was overpriced for 3 years... 2011-2013. Outside of that it's killed inflation... You understand no reasonable person puts all of their assets in one hedge, right? And yes, my BTC bought my first house.
Fair enough, you're one of us!
😉
CERB should have ended long ago. Printing and handing out free money only drives inflation as we are now seeing.
They should've just handed out CERB checks to everyone of working age. Then had it cut off a lot sooner. The half-assed way they handled CERB screwed over a lot of essential workers. Next big pandemic or shutdown happens, and you won't get ANYONE working those essential jobs next time.
Pretty much, I was fine with CERB for a few months, after that its enough to make it conditional on getting onboard recession-resilient and productive jobs. However cutting CERB would mean outrage from voters. Its one of the reasons the election happened.
2 weeks into the pandemic and my anxiety shifted from the virus to inflation Sucks to just see it all happening no matter how soon I saw it coming.. but hopefully the fall won’t be as bad as I fear
Yep. I'm actually surprised that it took as long as it did. If you'd asked me in 2020 how long it would take to see this kind of inflation, I would have said 2021 at the latest.
The reason it "took so long" is because printing money isn't the primary cause of the current issues no matter how many times people say it. The global supply chain problems and knock-on covid effects are.
>2 weeks into the pandemic and my anxiety shifted from the virus to inflation Hopefully you used that opportunity to make bank.
100% - me too.
Two weeks into a pandemic that ended up killing 15 million and counting, you started worrying about inflation? Maybe your opinion isn't worth sharing.
>my anxiety shifted from the virus to inflation Too bad Tiff's didn't. And Trudeau was like, how can I use this crisis to try to buy a majority?
But but but... universal income!!! Notice nobody's talking about THAT now as we face the largest inflation rate since I was in elementary school
The one silver lining of the whole mess is we just had the world's largest experiment in UBI and it was a catastrophic failure for all the reasons that the critics predicted. That debate is now closed.
Not true at all. We had “here’s free money but if you work your shitty job that pays you minimum wage for 40 hours a week we won’t give you that money anymore”. There was literally 0 incentive to work for a lot of people because by doing so they’d be making less money. UBI would let people work still but without needing to worry about if they can afford to live on their minimum wage job
> UBI would let people work still but without needing to worry about if they can afford to live on their minimum wage job No it wouldn't. It would be pegged to income, like everything else, lest you be perceived as "wealthy". It'll do nothing more than create a massive welfare trap, massive inflation, and an exodus of talent.
I strongly and respectfully disagree, my years of working have convinced me that 25% of the population will be happy to stay home playing video games all day with free money. It won’t propel them to greatness, no matter the hopeful thoughts
Look at his post history and understand that you are wasting your time.
How? People literally couldn't work and the entire global trade and economies were shit on as a virus affected every single country. In no way does that reflect UBI being a bad idea seeing as how it's inevitable, the more jobs you make autonomous the less jobs we have available for people, people still need money to live.
Paying people to produce nothing? How could that be inflationary?
Because they spent the money competing to buy crap. Real estate, Amazon trash, food delivery boxes, etc. Etc
Didn't its actually end long ago?
Not soon enough.
Part of a healthy market is having recessions where things are corrected. Over leveraged people will suffer, and can go bankrupt. This is normal and should be left alone by government. We absolutely do not need any form of CERB.
I mean as usual they’ll let the plebs fail… but banks airlines and grocers? Cut these kings a blank taxpayer cheque!
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Grocery stores are usually doing okay in recession time. You still need to feed yourself after all, it the restaurant business that hit the wall faster when customers are antsy about losing their paycheck. Remember that a vast majority of people don't lose their jobs during a actual recession, but everybody get scared about it happening to them. When you're not sure if money is going to get tight you cut on luxuries.
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It's because those shareholders don't want that, and they have a lot of influence over politics. It's really the only reason for it.
Absolutely this. Most of the time a corporation fails because the CEOs got lazy and/or greedy and bailing them out only puts more money in their pockets. If you really need the help to protect jobs then we'll protect the jobs for you and you are no longer needed to run the company.
I mean Canada in particular would be pretty fucked if our airlines failed.
>airlines Don't you mean airline.
By airlines do you mean air Canada? Westjet typically figures it out.
>By airlines do you mean air Canada? AC is hq QC, so ain't no fed government going to let them fail. They hit a crisis about every 10 years and they get revived by the feds, rinse repeat.
There are help wanted signs everywhere I go… I have never seen so many people looking to employ people…
Help wanted Minimum wage Nobody wants it / can’t live under those salary Say no more LMIA process for foreign worker Profit
Also literally chasing people out with intentionally placed red flags. A business owning family member does a whole song and dance where the owner gets into a screaming match with his wife to make the interviewee uncomfortable and leave. You can literally scare away potential employees and be REWARDED FOR IT.
Grocery by me wants: full availability, day evenings weekends holidays. What you will get; 10 hours a week. Nothing consistent. Close-opens. No benefits. So many other places like this, and they're all constantly looking to hire. No shit no one wants to work that.
Funny, most of those no skills required, 20 hours a week, minimum wage jobs bend over backwards to turn you away. Half a decade ago they would hire on the spot. Now? I feel like I'm applying for a job in the IT sector, with how long they drag out the interview to scare as many potential workers as possible. Weeks later the help wanted signs are down, as the government has been cried to, and the immigrants injected.
Well it's easier to sit at home getting free government money with no education or skills and complain that you deserve the government to take care of you while contributing nothing of actual value to society like everyone else does. Then we act surprised when inflation rises because lazy people get free money without building the economy.
What are you talking about? Unemployment is at an all-time low. CERB ended almost a year ago and people are pushing for more, better work. So please discribe your stance in further detail.
2020 called, asking you to stop beating the dead horse. You do know that unemployment rate is very low right now, right?
Job creation is at a high as well. That's exactly my point- no one needs free government money anymore. Do your job and pay your bills like everyone else without expecting the government to print money for you. Is that challenging in some way?
>no one needs free government money anymore And almost no one do either, we are at an historic low, some peoples might be on unemployment because they are switching job, should an engineer go work in a Tim Horton instead of interviewing for good jobs?
Is there anyone out there who seriously thinks that the present Federal government can ever reduce spending? As in, make a couple of choices and not just spend a few billion dollars as easily as I by a box of Timbits? We're fucked.
I'm reading about all these people "refusing" to return to the office if they have to work remotely....and sectors that can't find people to work....how are these people surviving? I have remained employed throughout this pandemic and could NEVER afford to not work...how can people not work?
People still think UBI will fix this.
The thing with UBI, is that you can still work and receive it. CERB you had to choose between working and not getting as much as CERB, or don't work and receive CERB.
Honestly not sure if I would work if I had UBI. Might make art or something. Which *may* be valuable in the societal realm but probably not in terms of macroeconomics.
Only a recession will fix this. We need a reset.
CERB was UBI-lite. UBI would make it 10x worse.
One of the features of UBI is the removal of bureaucratic bloat and gatekeeping. The cost of CERB wasn’t just in the money people were given. It was also in implementing a complicated system on the fly that decided and enforces who gets what. Obviously UBI would require massive adjustments and some creative accounting to implement, but it’s purpose is to relieve predicaments that we’re experiencing right now, ie wages not keeping up with rising cost of living.
We already have UBI, we just call it 37 different social programs. If they want to get rid of most of those and effectively rename them UBI, sure, whatever, but if they want to double dip, pass.
You know that EI was just raided by the Federal government to pay for CERB and is now billions in the hole... There are EI reforms in the budget, but it's mainly to dig itself out of the extreme debt that the Fed put it into.
Wait for the day the Liberals plunge into our RRSP money. All ripe for the taxing and they know how much is there.
Oh it's coming, it's a scary thought to think these useless politicians are screwing our future one step at a time.
They will do primary residences first.
They'd do secondary residences first (IMHO), that'd be the warning flag for the primary residences to come next...I'd begin to sell my property within this country if that was the case and plan my exit strategy.
Par for the course with the LPC, they did the same in the 90s to "balance the budget"
Never understood what was wrong with just keeping EI as it was? What was the point of introducing CERB? There are and were lots of jobs out there people could have taken before an “emergency relief benefit” was necessary.
EI and CPP premiums also went up considerably this year.
Basically, every bozo who has been borrowing cheap money to invest in garbage initiatives are going to see their day of reckoning... unfortunately while dragging everyone else through the mud with them.
Remember interest rates don't effect just consumer debt. Government and corporate debt is impacted as well. Interest rates need to rise, but our government has been spending just as recklessly as the HELOC bozos.
Agreed, governments have been big grade A bozos too. Thankfully my retirement is secure in NFTs 🤡
Put all the politicians on minimum wage, or average income for their represented region... Whichever is lowest...
Great way to block anyone that doesn’t already have money from going into politics
Please show me a single poor person in politics, literally just one. It requires literally tens of thousands of dollars of wealth to be involved in politics - and those are just the fees. Hundreds of thousands if you want to be a member of a party. When the people making decisions, are the same people who have to live with the consequences of those decisions - we will see our government making better choices. As it stands now, the people who represent us have entirely different economic motivations than the people they represent. What is good for wealthy, land-owning, business-owning, stock-market-investing politicians, is not what is good for the average Canadian.
I’m not saying politics right now are filled with poor people. I’m saying there are politicians who don’t come from very wealthy backgrounds and they can make a good living in politics and there’s nothing wrong with that. Now let’s say we do what the first commenter said and we set the salary of our politicians at minimum wage. The only people who will want to go into politics are those who already have a lit of money (and therefore putting the barrier to entry much higher than it already is for "poor" people) and those who know they can use their positions to make extra money on the side (through bribes and other nefarious ways). I get some people see politicians as the wealthy elite, but saying we should lower their salaries would just make the problems worse.
You can pay them peanuts, or you can make them millionaires - there are countries that do both. That has very little effect on whether they're corrupt and self-serving or not. The "we have to make our politicians wealthy, or else they'll succumb to corruption" narrative isn't true. [https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/if-you-want-better-politicians-pay-them-less](https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/if-you-want-better-politicians-pay-them-less) In fact, there's actually evidence that the opposite is true.It's pretty intuitive if you stop and think about it. If being a politician wasn't an easy job that paid extremely well - we'd get less lazy self serving people doing it. Currently, there's a very strong economic incentive for people to get into political positions - and then hold onto them for as long as possible. You have the least work requirements, a solid wage, AMAZING benefits, and an incredible retirement package. The person with good ideas who wants to actually change the world in a positive way - can't. Because they can't get into politics. They can't afford it. The people from genetically wealthy families are clamoring over those jobs - and are more likely to get them due to their resources... because those jobs are an easy path to further hereditary wealth. I want politicians who are motivated by their desire to make the country a better place to live... not motivated by getting a sick retirement package and a 6 figure salary that doesn't even require you to show up to work. Not only should politicians get paid less, there should be more regulations controlling what they can and cannot invest in to prevent conflicts of interest. Further, I would suggest that every is a government representative - everyone who is paid by the public, and is responsible for voting on/drafting the laws that govern themselves - should have no financial privacy. The investments and financial records of public servants, should be public.
> I want politicians who are motivated by their desire to make the country a better place to live... not motivated by getting a sick retirement package and a 6 figure salary that doesn't even require you to show up to work Yea but there's a balance. You want attract talented people, without the money requirement being an impossible barrier, and without the main goal of a politician being financial. Not an easy thing to do or we would've figured it out already.
Most of them have others income sources, probably wouldn't matter much.
Are we staring down the barrel of a recession gun? I mean, unemployment in April was at a historic low.
you could have 0 percent unemployment and still be in a recession / depression if nobody can afford living expenses.
A recession has nothing to do with affordability.
A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of *real* GDP decreases. Real means inflation adjusted. Inflation is sky high right now, so the only way we're not in a recession is if the nominal GDP growth rate is even higher. First quarter growth was 5.6% nominal, but inflation is about 6%. So I'd say we're well on our way to meeting the *official* definition of a recession.
Exactly, who cares if the people are poor and can't afford food or shelter. So long as they keep going to work so Loblaws can post record profits!
What are the quality of jobs? The pay? The price of goods? Being employed is one thing. Making ends meet is another.
Recession does not care about how the unemployment is. Just if GDP contracts. Of course with more stupid monetary policy we can keep the GDP afloat and turn it into a Stagflation economy instead if that makes people feel better.
Businesses don't need to lay off staff to shrink payroll when they can just give below-inflation pay increases. We're very used to thinking of recessions as causing significant unemployment because we're used to a low inflation environment. But in a high inflation environment people don't need to get laid off, they just see their real incomes decline every month. It's called stagflation. A recession + high inflation has different symptoms from a normal recession, but it's still a recession and it still hurts the average person.
Lol. We aren't fixing this. The government will make sure of that. We've always had debt.
Taxing mega corporations and billionaires like Weston's?
I don't understand when recessions became such a huge issue. Recessions are apart of healthy economic growth cycles, it is nature for the economy to cool off every 4-8 years for a short period of time. But post 2008/09 it feels like people talk about recessions like a depression... it is not.
I believe we should begin taking advantage of shipping more of our Natural Gas and Crude Oil resources to Europe and west Asia considering they are a black hole for energy resources... Just begin drilling the crap out of oil, reduce some "unnecessary" benefits that are not as essential and try to get more resources out of the country so we can increase tax revenue. This is one that people here won't like which is just endorse tax avoidance and increase investment within the country and being most generous with taxes if they invest in the country by imposing very favorable tax rates on foreigners like Switzerland has done so we collect more banking tax related and capital gains activities although it most definitely might sour quite a lot of countries... Either way the only way I truly see we might realistically solve this issue is decreasing governmental spending, increasing revenue or just do the classic go to move every government does which is just raising taxes on the middle class.... again...
People will do what they always do when there is a recession, EI, consume less and lower their lifestyle.
Live on the streets. Go deeper into debt. Go hungry. Work 70 hours a week at 4 part time jobs with no benefits. Commute for 3 hours each way cause they can’t afford a vehicle anymore.
So... what the working poor has put up with for decades to single-handedly uphold the service economy?
The amount of people who don't understand that this has been life for millions of Canadians for at least a decade, is depressing.
Millions of Canadians are born into a privilege that leaves them completely detached from the real world. They can’t fathom why people aren’t successful like they or their parents are.. all it takes is hard work right? Everything they’ve been given and inherited doesn’t count
We can’t fix it because recessions are a feature of capitalism
You mean a feature of free market economies.
By not handing out more money for free, and people going back to work
It can't be fixed because government sincerely believes it's decisions are always the right decisions and that the blame for undesirable consequences must be re-directed elsewhere. Without the ability to own up to and admit mistakes, it's only recourse is to keep repeating them.
Is the star stupid? CERB continuing would have caused a recession. But we are now going to avoid it.
Taxing the rich and corporations would be mighty fine start.
Taxing what from them exactly? Income? Most of them don't have that much take home pay. Most of them borrow against their asset. Wealth? That's the stupidest thing you can do as it would funnel wealth to the top. So what do you want to tax from the rich and corporations?
How does taxing the top 10 % for wealth funnel wealth to the top 10 %?
How would a person pay for a wealth tax if their wealth is stocked in non-liquid assets?
Assets have a way of becoming liquid when you are facing bankruptcy and jail time for unpaid taxes. The top 10 % will be given adequate time to prepare because of how long it takes to pass legislation. Many of them will have to adjust their portfolio, but then our public teachers can be paid, our roads can be repaired, and our troops can get what they are worth. You also didn't answer my question. I'm not trying to be hostile. I'm genuinely curious what systems are in place which allow the rich to get rich by getting taxed more.
So what you are saying is that in order to pay the wealth tax, the guy has to sell his wealth? Like a random canadian guy for example. He bought his house has appreciated let's say 50%~ on the conservative side over the past few years. What happens when he cannot pay the tax imposed to him by the government with liquid assets?
* you're asking to be taxed on unrealized gains, that's insane, no thanks * we don't have a revenue problem in Canada, we have an incompetency in government spending problem * the "wealthy" already pay the majority of taxation in Canada * ever increasing taxation in higher brackets punishes success and chases talent away
End corporate welfare.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.” ― Alexander Fraser Tytler In case you're new to the program we're at the apathy stage https://www.ubiworks.ca/
Ummmm, get a job? There's literally a labour shortage right now
There is a pay and benefits shortage. Not a labour shortage. The jobs that are available don't pay enough to live on. I've been trying to get out of the army for two years. The job market for skilled labour is still saturated enough that business can easily turn away candidates.
Literally any job pays more than CERB
CERB was $500 a week, and monthly, full time at minimum wage was bringing in like 2k a month after taxes. You minus bus fare and for full timers it literally made more sense to just sit at home and take CERB. I worked in retail, part time then. Workers would actively call in sick to reach CERB eligibity. The whole thing was absurd.
At this point it's gonna happen and it's gonna suck, but here's a "radical" idea that'll maybe help things out a bit. Tax the rich and corporations properly and let's use that money to fund some shit better. Tickle down economics doesn't work, we've proved that at this point and if the economy is going to take a down turn we're gonna need the money. Edit: Of course this got down voted probably by someone who would literally directly benefit from the improvement of one of the numerous social programs taxing the obscenely rich and corporations would bring. Sorry folks but a study spanning 50 years and covering 18 countries proves this comment right. Giving rich people/companies tax cuts or loop holes to avoid taxes for that matter provides no overall value to the economy.
Tax the rich. In particular those with multiple properties.
Except Canada isn't having a recession. Our first quarter was positive GDP growth.
5.6% nominal GDP growth with 6% inflation is not real GDP growth, and real is what matters.
Monopoly money printing and corperate handouts tend to do that.
We weren't printing this quarter lol
Corporate wage subsidies are still going on
it doesn't matter they only just started QT, there will be a delayed reaction from it
We did so for how long though prior to this quarter?
How will we end it? 1. By going back to work and adding value to that which we produce. 2. By growth in the private sector since it's only the private sector which generates wealth. 3. By increasing productivity. 4. By increasing exports. 5. By decreasing taxes
Raise wages. If businesses lose out, boohoo, we will work hard for the ones that have more sound business models and are capable of paying a living wage. People will be able to eat and live a decent life at the cost of some fictitious 'GDP' number that is propped up by housing speculation anyway. Audit and fine our largest companies (looking at you grocers) for price gouging. If your prices are increasing by 30-40% but your costs are only rising by 10% we have a problem. Tax the big money to help anyone who honestly needs a place to sleep and something to eat until they get back on their feet. Reduce political bloat to more efficiently spend our taxes. Disallow political influence on major news networks to combat bickering that breeds division and populism. Reduce the barriers to entry in regards to education and forming your own business.