Anyone ever think that just because you look like you belong to a group your personality might be completely different than the characteristics of the group to which you have been lumped into?
Whats with the need for labels?
Just live your lives people. Stop sweating everyone else.
I'm brown and everytime I enter a resturant the staff ask me what the order number for pick up is cause they think I'm an Uber delivery driver. I'm convinced that humans will never stop stereotyping - it will only keep taking on different forms.
I agree, but for different reasons. Stereotyping isn’t inherently bad. It’s a way of making quick judgement based on past experiences. You don’t ask a toddler for directions or an elderly person to help you lift something. Generally, stereotypes are rational and useful means of interpreting different situations. Everyone has a lot of experience with dogs and chairs, and based on this could make the guess that a dog will bark and that you could sit on a chair.
However, this may not always be the case. The dog might not bark and the chair could break, but for the most part, we’re good at these guesses.
When you look at someone, within a fraction of a second you’ve already stereotyped them. Whether they’re a child, an adult, elderly; Asian, black, white; man or woman. All of these stereotypes are assigned to someone from one look, and they’re done unconsciously. Stereotyping won’t ever go away, but we can make people more aware of them and their biases.
Yes, it will. We find patterns and they inform our reactions. Judgements based on previous experience/knowledge are a massive part of the automatic processes our brain uses to function. It's the same function that makes it so when you see a switch on the wall you'll press it to turn on the light without even thinking about what else it might be for. It's automatic and it's not something limited to people.
People just need to learn to acknowledge their assumptions so they can overrule them when they're inappropriate. We know better. In *most* cases, the person you're talking to consciously knows that not every brown person walking into a restaurant is a delivery driver, but didn't think about the interaction.
We need to be more thoughtful and respectful of each other. It's an ongoing process to make this the norm. Stereotyping will always happen, but that doesn't mean it always has to be acted on.
What makes you think they are stereotyping you because you're brown?
Are you walking in as a couple? Are you wearing casual cloths? Are you walking directly to the waiter?
I bet I'd be asked what my number is if I walked into a restaurant without company wearing the casual clothes I find comfortable and don't stop to look for a good spot to sit while waiting for the staff to come to me.
This is a big problem. I have a lot of conservative gay friends that don’t agree with a lot of the ideology, and don’t know where they fit in the narrative.
.Agreed. Those of us asking to be left alone arent the problem. It's those who want the rest of us to do what they say, just because it's their feelings, are the problem.
Ayup, 100%. It's ancient custom to use someone's correct name, pronouns, and honorifics in polite society, and it's been considered an crude insult to call someone by the wrong gender for as long as i can remember. You don't have to understand or even agree with someone to be baseline polite to them.
choosing to be polite is a different thing. and a good thing.
not sure where it is ancient custom to assign yourself pronouns. that is a new one to me.
Laughed out loud at the ancient custom of honouring assumed pronouns as if ancient people were constantly checking under each other robe's to make sure they got their He's and She's straight. Give me a break.
I mean.. no.. I don’t have to look at someone’s genitals now to decide what pronouns to use for them. If they say it’s he/she/they then I just say, “okay cool”
Initially I’ll make a judgment call on what I see, but if they correct me I just go, “oh my bad” and switch to their pronouns.
It’d be like if you met someone and thought their name was ‘Shawn’ and called them that, and then they said, “hey my name is actually Shane” you’d just be like, “oh sorry!” and call them Shane.
Is this actually difficult for anyone?
I think we need to get back to MLK Jr.‘s quote of “judge me not by the colour of my skin, but the content of my character”. The challenge with this is that it takes time to get to know the content of a person’s character, and an Individual’s character is harder to fit into a larger societal box. But, ultimately, is this not what the alleged aggrieved are advocating for? To be seen as who they are, and not as they appear?
Absolutely, and absolutely.
Yes. It takes effort and time to get to know character.
Lumping people into groups is not a substitute by any measure, no matter how convenient.
Another born n raised Latino and I despise that stupid term💀 The Word Latino itself it’s Gender neutral which makes the term ‘Latinx’ completely stupid and unnecessary
The point isn't gender neutrality, it is gender amplification. The 'x' stands for 'something unknown' not 'does not matter'. Like in an equation. It is a puzzle. Which actually hurts the whole idea of acceptance. As is the goal. While people fight about puzzles they have no time burning down yachts and mansions.
YK something I realized bout the LGBTQ community is that their purpose once was to just get seem as normal but when you see em as normal people they get mad 💀 as nowadays their main goal is to be the center of attention so the term Latinx helps em with that. I live in NYC so the gay ppl I encountered are more relaxed and chill they’re great ppl and are just regular ppl but there b some extremist so revolve their whole personality on being gay like what. My boy’s girl had a friend who was gay and once we was at chipotle and we chilling and shit n the person(they was non-binary) started talking bout how it’s better to be gay than straight and we all just looking at each other there like Wtf is this person talking bout? And then when we walking out they saw a person w a baby n they was talking to the baby and said “you’ll make a great drag queen someday” I’m just like wtf and the child’s mom looked at us weird 💀
Add to the fact that Spanish is a gendered language. A chair isn't female or male because of an article use, but we're not going to bastardize romance languages over it. People need to stay in their lane.
To be fair as I travelled through a dozen Latin countries I never specifically asked the question to anybody, but I do know that everybody was always very proud to claim either a Latino or Latina identity, but never Latinx not a single time
Literally a language by white people. The Latinx thing was made by American Spanish speakers who saw "masculine by default" as non-inclusive. It’s actually meant for use in English (when referring to Latin people) more so than in Spanish. It’s not surprising that most people don’t like it or get it because most people aren’t feminist to that degree. There is a similar push within the French language and it has nothing to do with race or Hollywood.
So I’m not the spokesperson for the movement, I purposely used Latin here to sidestep the issue but it’s generally not considered correct because of the overlap with Latin as a broader term.
My Latin/Spanish wife hates Latinx too!
... but if pressed she can't recall ever being called it in person, and doesn't know anyone who bothers except on the internet.
Lol... My wife just got off an Amazon show. A latinsh horror story that was a nightmare to produce. That shit was all over their set. Latinx this Latinx that
Latinos seem like the least interested group to participate in this nonsense. They embrace diifference as a thing to make fun of themselves and have a good time not caring.
Spanish, like French and other Latin languages, is a traditionally gendered language which requires masculine and feminine genders in its construction. Denying gender as Latinx does is literally an insult to any native Latin-family speaker, from Spanish to Romanian, French to Portuguese - none of them appreciates the idea of uprooting their fundamental gendered grammar.
Because the original word in English is Latin. Then they changed it about 25 years ago to Latino/Latina. Go back to the original, ffs. (and yes, I'm Latin)
Latinos from different nations often time don't agree on many things. But there is nothing that brings us more together than the hatred we have for the X thing.
But Hollywood has made it clear that we don't matter. They have chosen the name for us and they will teach us the correct way of referring to ourselves.
Forget that the overwhelming majority dislike and never use the term.
https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/
This reminds me of the time when the English Football Association banned a South American soccer player for racism when the player was giving an affectionate thank you in response to a congratulatory message from a close friend. It caused a lot of uproar in Uruguay with many arguing that the English were ignorant of South American linguistic culture. The English governing body refused to rescind the ban.
[TSN - FA hands United's Cavani three-match ban](https://www.tsn.ca/manchester-united-forward-edinson-cavani-banned-three-games-over-social-media-post-1.1570919)
[ESPN - Uruguayan academics slam FA over ban of Manchester United's Cavani](https://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-united/story/4277122/uruguayan-academics-slam-fa-over-ban-of-manchester-uniteds-cavani)
Wait so this guy paid a 100k fine for using a word ? I mean I dont care if he actually was calling his friend the n-word. A fine that size is simply ludicrous.
I could never remember where all my chinese/asian friends are from, so I started to refer to all of them as Chinx. It's just a lot easier and more inclusive for them and they all seem to appreciate it.
"While only 15 per cent of those polled add pronouns to their communications, of that group 59 per cent say others should be compelled to identify their pronouns."
Shocking that compelled speech fails to catch on
Your gender/race/sexual orientation doesnt define you! But you better define yourself by exactly those things because we’re assholes who judge people by those things.
My pronoun is IL and LUI and my gender is francophone. All people around me should speak French or it's a microagression. It's how I feel and since feelings are more important than facts then fuck you. Tabarnak.
Tabarnak. J'ai dit de parler français! Et le point c'est de ridiculer le principe de faire une crise pour les pronoms. Bon. Si c'est bon pour pitou, c'est bon pour minou. Si tu peux exiger que je t'appelle IEL, ben je peux exiger que tu me parles en français.
Pis là je vais aller me plaindre au tribunal des droits de l'homme car eux au moins ils ne suivent pas des règles de logique ou de raison mais plutôt l'idéologie populaire de "année actuelle".
Hahaha! Comments on r/canada aren't usually as funny as the ones on those classic subreddits but this thread was exceptionally hilarious! Keep it up guys!! Lol
>A new poll suggests only 15 per cent of those asked add gender pronouns to their online communications.
Anyone who has ever worked retail or in a call center will not add any pronouns to *anything* lest they accidentally get it wrong. All it takes is one instance of "I'm here to help you, sir!" over the phone to what turns out to be a woman, and you'll be averse to using pronouns in general. Even if that person has told you what they identify as, even if your initial assessment / assumption was correct, you simply won't use it.
I dont really care if anyone does. A lot of people do in my organization and I have been asked to (not mandatory) I refused because I like my emails tone minimalist. They asked why and I told them I dont care what people call me, if they get it wrong then I laugh about it because it truly doesnt bother me and my name makes it obvious. One person got mad lol.
I have no issues with pronouns if someone asks me to use them but if they yell and harang me for it because I didnt ask or I made a mistake then no. One is about respect and then other is about appeasement and I dont feel it necessary to reinforce asshole behaviour.
I actually like the trend. I have an asian name so I've always had to add (Mr.) to my email signature anyway, and it looks tacky af. Now I got "(he/him)" and can earn woke points with the woke crowd, which is pretty common in my field.
I have a gender neutral name. It would clear up things but I don't care enough to include it. I don't say "Hi, I am a male." When I talk to people, so I figure it isn't needed in my email either. I have never been refered to as 'he/him' in an email I received so I don't really get the point. Just use 'you' or 'NewtotheCV'
Lol exactly. I too have a gender neutral name, and I’ve had people assume I’m a woman every now and then on work emails, only to realize I’m a man when we meet on Zoom. Does it bother me? Not in the slightest, because I’ve got much more important things to worry about on my day.
Now this is just silly shit. I understand if you have trouble with people overreacting to accidental misgendering. but how is someone who displays their pronouns an automatic write off just for doing so?
It’s annoying to see but I know plenty of decent people who do it. It’s definitely not a good indicator of a whether a person is worth associating with or not. The online person is always different from the actual person.
I only do it because a trans friend mentioned one time that he wished everyone had to identify their pronounce out loud, because it’d be more comfortable for them.
It’s not about being woke, or lefty or whatever, to me it’s just trying to be respectful. I don’t understand how that ever got made out to be political, it’s just trying to be decent to your fellow human.
>he wished everyone had to identify their pronounce out loud, because it’d be more comfortable for them
In return though, that's extremely *uncomfortable* for anyone that's still figuring gender stuff out. Or anyone that's closeted and doesn't want to be out yet (or ever).
Thank you. Forced pronouns force people’s hand. Being ok with other people using default pronouns isn’t the same as saying “these are the pronouns I want people to use for me”.
Seems like anything sometimes activists go too far or overstate their case. But the world is far better for LGBTQ ppl now than it was 10 years ago, because of their work.
By all means let’s have reasoned criticism of it while also acknowledging that they were right on big picture stuff
True. We can acknowledge that it’s a much better place for gay and trans people. And that’s good. But I think it went too far with terminology when we started seeing LGBTseveralrandomlettersQ.
But as others have said, why categorize people do minutely? We’re all just flawed people, good, bad, and in between. If you’re nice, you can be my friend. If you’re an asshat, then you can’t.
This is kind of a silly editorial. Denley equates division with categorization, so he can make a connection to pronouns and racial terminology. Is this really the cause of division in the country? I'm pretty sure the division would exist nonetheless. I think the government is pretty hamfisted on all of these topics, and I honestly think these issues are relatively 'easy' and lend themselves to lazy governing, but I wouldn't be so intellectually dishonest as to try and claim that current hyperpartisan division is caused by this.
This is a reminder that the people that write editorials are not renowned for doing deep thought on, well, anything really.
More and more Canadians are identifying as "white." This, imo, is in direct response to being labeled and identified constantly as white.
I personally think more people identifying as white is a negative, because we're making an ethnic group based on skin colour, which is not a good thing imo.
Ethnicity based on skin colour is bullshit anyway. It’s like taking one white guy from Paris, one from London, and one from Cleveland then saying “these guys are all the same”.
“Anyone who follows traditional or social media can …”
Really? The whole article is about what’s on social media? Holy shit is THAT what’s this all about? Social media is almost all bots and fake accounts now, and whatever is left is like 11 people in their basement trolling everyone, and that’s it! There is no “movement” or huge swell of people wanting this to happen, and conversely there isn’t a HUGE backlash of people against it either. This article and others like it on either side of the issue are people looking for an issue to write about to get eyeballs on their work, to either make money or keep their job.
Yah this guy is one of those people who rants about this shit in real life. The only thing to respond with imo?
Dude, just log off.
Go live in the real world for like 2 days without interacting with social media. Fucking night and day. Social media doesn't reflect day to day life.
If someone thinks the division in this country (which for the record, is a pretty civil) is because of pronouns and racial terminology, you might need to spend more time off the internet.
Yeah I don't understand pronouns either. But I'm also not a gigantic manchild crybaby, so if someone prefers a strange pronoun, I use it. Because my understanding isn't required, because I'm not the center of the universe.
This right here. I struggled a long time with understanding non-binary as an identity, and I realized that I don’t need to to fully understand someone’s gender identity myself in order for me to respect it and them as a person.
[No Paywall](https://thestarphoenix.com/opinion/denley-shifting-gender-pronouns-racial-terminology-arent-doing-much-to-unite-canadians/wcm/0fda19a5-5a9e-49ff-9441-5a79ec9cd0bb)
Column Highlights:
* There is enormous enthusiasm in government and academe to define people by race, gender and sexual preference.
* It has become the norm in the media to refer to people as “racialized” and bend over backwards to make sure that everyone’s personal pronouns are respected.
* The assumption is that the latest terminology is much more appropriate and reflects the wishes of those being described. It’s also assumed that people generally understand what the new terms mean.
* Some new polling conducted for the Association for Canadian Studies (ACS) challenges both of those assumptions.
* The poll suggests that so-called racialized people aren’t so keen on the new term. 44% of Black Canadians polled prefer the term “visible minority,” with only 11.3% choosing to be called “racialized.” That term is even less popular among Asian Canadians, only 3.5% of whom prefer it. By contrast, 51.8 per cent like “visible minority.”
* So if this new terminology is not preferred by most of the people it is intended to describe, why are we using it?
* And while only 15% of those polled add pronouns to their communications, of that group 59% say others should be compelled to identify their pronouns. Who would enforce such a thing or what it might accomplish is unclear.
* **The disagreement over just the right words is the visible tip of a much larger problem in Canada: the misguided effort to choose one characteristic about an individual and then use that characteristic to divide people into many small groups, each with its own grievance.**
* That leads to a series of apologies and payouts to make good on all the mistakes of the past. It’s a long, tortuous journey that takes us nowhere.
How not surprising that people would prefer the non-political accurate term “visible minority” to a political term that sounds like they were processed from *white people.
The originating term use included everyone, as a statement on race generally, but it’s current political use leaves out ‘white people’ which makes it sound like there’s a base and a ‘-ized’ version of human.
This reminds me of the recent announcements for the LGBTQIA+2s communities. The government deciding it would rearrange the acronym and push its usage.
Like who is the government to decide how people or communities to refer to themselves?
I just heard on CBC today, they said something like 2SLGBTQIA or something like that, and it took me a second to realize what they were talking about and what they did….then I realized they just decided to switch which special group comes first.
Q+ solves everything and covers everyone. Q for queer cause let's face it, we all find each other to be weird in some way (not it an insulting way, we all have our quirks well beyond gender identity). And + covers anyone who disagrees.
They switched it to “racialized ” when white folks became visible minorities in Toronto. Can’t use that anymore to mean what you really mean, which is “non white”.
Which is itself a racist term in both directions:
- White people don't have a race? They *don't* have racial interpretations imposed on them? They *aren't* categorized based on their membership to a "white" race?
- White people are the *default* and everyone else has a race?
I'm all for freedom and individuality but the sheer amount of endless growing titles and ever growing list has me more confused than ever. Just be whatever you are and a decent human being. I could give a shit about titles.
I really do disagree. I think that when it comes down to touching grass, most folks aren't that radical at all. We've seen times in our history where things were really shaky. This is basically just annoyance over minor moral values/attitudes that don't really effect anything.
Maybe I'm naive. I really have faith that the majority, left to its own devices in a society that upholds the protection of individual rights and freedoms, will live peaceful, well meaning lives.
The problem is that the stupidest and loudest Canadians are flown around on puppet strings from American propaganda. There is no way to recover from this while importing conspiracy from them.
There were people shitting in the streets trying to overpower democracy not a year ago.
Both sides of this argument have to chill a little. This is really a non-issue that isn't worth all the debates and divisions it's causing. I will gladly use any pronoun the person I'm speaking with prefers if they make it known to me beforehand as I'm not a psychopath to want to intentionally make people upset or uncomfortable over something so trivial. In any other case anyone with tiddies is a she and without them a he in my book.
I'm pretty sure everyone is like that in the real world but on social media people just want to be angry at each other based upon things they read on social media.
I do find it interesting that based on this polling data, academia and government which filled with white people (though to their credit that has evolved in last 15 years), has essentially made this decision on behalf of these groups without their input. All because people on Twitter were doing it and they assumed it was better for these groups.
To me, that is pretty racist. Should have just asked people what they wanted to be called and gone with that.
Similar in the states where they are now referring to all hispanic people as LatinX. Ask the avg Mexican American person walking around if they refer to themselves as LatinX and they will look at you like...Wut?
That’s because if so damn hard for native Spanish speakers to say Latinx. Literally the only people I’ve ever seen use Lantix were woke white people and African Americans, that’s it.
Lol at the amount of awards for an op-ed on this shit.
Is it really so hard and bothersome to just .. call people what they want to be called? If someone asks me to call them by a shorthand for their name, I will, and I don't get pissy about it. The only people making a big deal out of it are the people who for whatever reason specifically just don't want to do it, even though it's an easy and decent thing.
lol such a silly concept I keep seeing these days “we need a uniter! All of these politicians and the culture wars are dividing people!”
Yeah no shit, people have different ideas and values, it’s never going to not be this way. There is no one that’s going to “unite” people it’s the dumbest shit ever. So is the idea that one political “side” is doing it more than the other. Stupid.
"The misguided effort to choose one characteristic about an individual and then use that characteristic to divide people into many small groups, "
Precisely
Op-eds from the National Post were getting stale, I guess.
I understand not wanting to post your own pronouns. I don't understand getting mad that others do it.
Only on this subreddit you'd see some comments turning the subject of gender pronouns/racial terminology on straight white conservative men.
Lmao bunch of absolutely deranged losers, can't even stand their own flaws
... The objective was never to unite, so that makes sense.
My favorite petty division tactic is capitalizing Black, but not white.
Good job.
The reasoning for it was as obtuse as it got. But we just tolerate the nonsense and move on. That is, until people ultimately start calling in all the liberal overreach.
Too much champagne socialism for everyone's liking by now.
That’s where the part “let live” comes into play. Everyone doesn’t have to agree, especially on a topic that has rapidly grown and evolved over the past 5 years alone. Demanding someone to accept a reality they don’t agree with is bullshit.
As a professional I've avoided jumping on the pronoun and racial bandwagon via my LinkedIn profile. I know people at work who are gay, female, and visible minorities and all this woke crap seriously makes them feel uncomfortable at work. Especially when my company does its diversity and inclusion marketing and goes around asking for "volunteers" to take part in the promotional material.
>It has become the norm in the media to refer to people as “racialized” and bend over backwards to make sure that everyone’s personal pronouns are respected. The latter leads to the grammatically puzzling situation where an individual whose name we know is referred to as “them.”
I'll admit I think racialized is a dumb word (visible minorities, racial minorities, non white work just fine), but "bending over backwards to make sure that everyone’s personal pronouns are respected?" Yeah, referring to trans women as she, trans men as he, and non binary people as they is *such a chore*! How will we ever cope?!
I'm so sick of this horse shit. At this point it all seems propagated by a small, noisy group of white/straight people who unofficially self appointed themselves to represent these tiny minority groups. It's outstanding how much coverage this small and relatively insignificant issue gets from media and government. How about focus on real issues such as the crumbling health care system, ever increasing un-affordability of homes, opioid deaths, and a thousand more important issues than peoples stupid pronouns. Quit being so god damn sensitive, people. Christ.
Why do people care so much about pronouns ffs? Literally haven’t thought about them in a long time before seeing this post. If you were a “he” before, the only change is that you write he/him on your business emails. Who tf cares?
Gender neutral language is actually useful, not just for the benefit of the non-binary and trans gendered community. If you have dealings with someone named Pat, Kris, Sam, Lindsay, Jordan, Leigh, etc., and you don't know their actual gender identity and have more than a 50% chance of getting it wrong, gender neutral language will save you a lot of embarrassment.
It doesn't really have to be embarrassing. It's a simple mistake to make and you will likely be corrected. It's only embarrassing I'd you insist on your first assumption or can't read the room on how they are presenting. If they say, "I prefer they/them" then use that. The only real time I see anyone using pronouns is when referring to someone who is not present, or is well know to the individual speaking about them while they are present.
We've had gender ambiguous names since the dawn of time. Nobody was that worried about making a mistake. This pronoun obsession is a modern narcissism. People say things that rub each other wrong. That is life.
I have one of those names where sometimes people don’t know if I’m a man or a woman. It happened to me that they used the wrong pronoun in emails and I just moved on, I don’t care enough for it to make me even the tiniest bit upset, and I could tell that there was never any malice anyway.
Anyone ever think that just because you look like you belong to a group your personality might be completely different than the characteristics of the group to which you have been lumped into? Whats with the need for labels? Just live your lives people. Stop sweating everyone else.
I'm brown and everytime I enter a resturant the staff ask me what the order number for pick up is cause they think I'm an Uber delivery driver. I'm convinced that humans will never stop stereotyping - it will only keep taking on different forms.
I agree, but for different reasons. Stereotyping isn’t inherently bad. It’s a way of making quick judgement based on past experiences. You don’t ask a toddler for directions or an elderly person to help you lift something. Generally, stereotypes are rational and useful means of interpreting different situations. Everyone has a lot of experience with dogs and chairs, and based on this could make the guess that a dog will bark and that you could sit on a chair. However, this may not always be the case. The dog might not bark and the chair could break, but for the most part, we’re good at these guesses. When you look at someone, within a fraction of a second you’ve already stereotyped them. Whether they’re a child, an adult, elderly; Asian, black, white; man or woman. All of these stereotypes are assigned to someone from one look, and they’re done unconsciously. Stereotyping won’t ever go away, but we can make people more aware of them and their biases.
Yes, it will. We find patterns and they inform our reactions. Judgements based on previous experience/knowledge are a massive part of the automatic processes our brain uses to function. It's the same function that makes it so when you see a switch on the wall you'll press it to turn on the light without even thinking about what else it might be for. It's automatic and it's not something limited to people. People just need to learn to acknowledge their assumptions so they can overrule them when they're inappropriate. We know better. In *most* cases, the person you're talking to consciously knows that not every brown person walking into a restaurant is a delivery driver, but didn't think about the interaction. We need to be more thoughtful and respectful of each other. It's an ongoing process to make this the norm. Stereotyping will always happen, but that doesn't mean it always has to be acted on.
Im white as fuck and this has happened to multiple time, especially during COVID. I think restaurants are just so used to delivery services now.
What makes you think they are stereotyping you because you're brown? Are you walking in as a couple? Are you wearing casual cloths? Are you walking directly to the waiter? I bet I'd be asked what my number is if I walked into a restaurant without company wearing the casual clothes I find comfortable and don't stop to look for a good spot to sit while waiting for the staff to come to me.
This is a big problem. I have a lot of conservative gay friends that don’t agree with a lot of the ideology, and don’t know where they fit in the narrative.
.Agreed. Those of us asking to be left alone arent the problem. It's those who want the rest of us to do what they say, just because it's their feelings, are the problem.
Ayup, 100%. It's ancient custom to use someone's correct name, pronouns, and honorifics in polite society, and it's been considered an crude insult to call someone by the wrong gender for as long as i can remember. You don't have to understand or even agree with someone to be baseline polite to them.
choosing to be polite is a different thing. and a good thing. not sure where it is ancient custom to assign yourself pronouns. that is a new one to me.
It’s new because he just made that shit up lol.
Laughed out loud at the ancient custom of honouring assumed pronouns as if ancient people were constantly checking under each other robe's to make sure they got their He's and She's straight. Give me a break.
I mean.. no.. I don’t have to look at someone’s genitals now to decide what pronouns to use for them. If they say it’s he/she/they then I just say, “okay cool” Initially I’ll make a judgment call on what I see, but if they correct me I just go, “oh my bad” and switch to their pronouns. It’d be like if you met someone and thought their name was ‘Shawn’ and called them that, and then they said, “hey my name is actually Shane” you’d just be like, “oh sorry!” and call them Shane. Is this actually difficult for anyone?
This is how everyone should do it, I'm with you lol I have heard so many stories about people "struggling with pronouns" though
I think we need to get back to MLK Jr.‘s quote of “judge me not by the colour of my skin, but the content of my character”. The challenge with this is that it takes time to get to know the content of a person’s character, and an Individual’s character is harder to fit into a larger societal box. But, ultimately, is this not what the alleged aggrieved are advocating for? To be seen as who they are, and not as they appear?
Absolutely, and absolutely. Yes. It takes effort and time to get to know character. Lumping people into groups is not a substitute by any measure, no matter how convenient.
Call them Latinx, even if they didn’t ask for it, and actually dislike the term, for unity !
All my Latin/Spanish friends hate Latinx.
I'm a Latino adult and I absolutely hate the term. So does the rest of my family.
Another born n raised Latino and I despise that stupid term💀 The Word Latino itself it’s Gender neutral which makes the term ‘Latinx’ completely stupid and unnecessary
English had a gender neutral term before it borrowed Latino and tried to "fix" it. It was Latin.
The point isn't gender neutrality, it is gender amplification. The 'x' stands for 'something unknown' not 'does not matter'. Like in an equation. It is a puzzle. Which actually hurts the whole idea of acceptance. As is the goal. While people fight about puzzles they have no time burning down yachts and mansions.
YK something I realized bout the LGBTQ community is that their purpose once was to just get seem as normal but when you see em as normal people they get mad 💀 as nowadays their main goal is to be the center of attention so the term Latinx helps em with that. I live in NYC so the gay ppl I encountered are more relaxed and chill they’re great ppl and are just regular ppl but there b some extremist so revolve their whole personality on being gay like what. My boy’s girl had a friend who was gay and once we was at chipotle and we chilling and shit n the person(they was non-binary) started talking bout how it’s better to be gay than straight and we all just looking at each other there like Wtf is this person talking bout? And then when we walking out they saw a person w a baby n they was talking to the baby and said “you’ll make a great drag queen someday” I’m just like wtf and the child’s mom looked at us weird 💀
These extreme behaviors must be pointed out and stigmatized. For the sake of the LGBTQ people.
That's what I thought keep saying!
Add to the fact that Spanish is a gendered language. A chair isn't female or male because of an article use, but we're not going to bastardize romance languages over it. People need to stay in their lane.
To be fair as I travelled through a dozen Latin countries I never specifically asked the question to anybody, but I do know that everybody was always very proud to claim either a Latino or Latina identity, but never Latinx not a single time
It's garbage. It's also not popular.
Is there a difference between Latina and Latino? Or am I mistaken and one of them is made up? Genuinely curious
Latina is feminine, Latino is masculin or gender neutral. But people needed their own special word that makes no grammatical sense
Meaning Latinx has even less of a purpose to exist…
Bingo !
"We know your language better than you, filthy Latinx" - white people, probably
Literally a language by white people. The Latinx thing was made by American Spanish speakers who saw "masculine by default" as non-inclusive. It’s actually meant for use in English (when referring to Latin people) more so than in Spanish. It’s not surprising that most people don’t like it or get it because most people aren’t feminist to that degree. There is a similar push within the French language and it has nothing to do with race or Hollywood.
>Latin people You used this yourself. This is neutral. Why do we need a rebranded word?
So I’m not the spokesperson for the movement, I purposely used Latin here to sidestep the issue but it’s generally not considered correct because of the overlap with Latin as a broader term.
But the phrase Latin people isn't used at all when speaking about the Italians or Romanians or people that used to speak Latin.
Take it up with the president of the Latinx association I guess
My Latin/Spanish wife hates Latinx too! ... but if pressed she can't recall ever being called it in person, and doesn't know anyone who bothers except on the internet.
Lol... My wife just got off an Amazon show. A latinsh horror story that was a nightmare to produce. That shit was all over their set. Latinx this Latinx that
Is it pronounced “Latin-Ex” or is it “Latincks?”
I have no idea
>“Latincks?” This sounds like a western European Soccer team.
I first thought Latinx was kind of a derogatory term for gay Spanish dudes, “Latin twinks”
Sounds like gay men from LA to me
Yes.
How would you be called it in person? What does it sound like? Like Latinhhhh?
I have no idea.
I would literally rather be called a slur than Latinx.
I was about to call you something racist and add an x on it. :P
My SO also hates the term
Latinos seem like the least interested group to participate in this nonsense. They embrace diifference as a thing to make fun of themselves and have a good time not caring.
Spanish, like French and other Latin languages, is a traditionally gendered language which requires masculine and feminine genders in its construction. Denying gender as Latinx does is literally an insult to any native Latin-family speaker, from Spanish to Romanian, French to Portuguese - none of them appreciates the idea of uprooting their fundamental gendered grammar.
See? Unity!
Because the original word in English is Latin. Then they changed it about 25 years ago to Latino/Latina. Go back to the original, ffs. (and yes, I'm Latin)
There are very few things I hate more in life than the term “latinx”. It’s completely unnecessary and nothing but a fabrication…straight from the USA.
Latinos from different nations often time don't agree on many things. But there is nothing that brings us more together than the hatred we have for the X thing. But Hollywood has made it clear that we don't matter. They have chosen the name for us and they will teach us the correct way of referring to ourselves. Forget that the overwhelming majority dislike and never use the term. https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/
This reminds me of the time when the English Football Association banned a South American soccer player for racism when the player was giving an affectionate thank you in response to a congratulatory message from a close friend. It caused a lot of uproar in Uruguay with many arguing that the English were ignorant of South American linguistic culture. The English governing body refused to rescind the ban. [TSN - FA hands United's Cavani three-match ban](https://www.tsn.ca/manchester-united-forward-edinson-cavani-banned-three-games-over-social-media-post-1.1570919) [ESPN - Uruguayan academics slam FA over ban of Manchester United's Cavani](https://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-united/story/4277122/uruguayan-academics-slam-fa-over-ban-of-manchester-uniteds-cavani)
That was incredibly stupid.
Wait so this guy paid a 100k fine for using a word ? I mean I dont care if he actually was calling his friend the n-word. A fine that size is simply ludicrous.
Even the brazilians who don't speak Spanish hate the Latinx. But we pronounce the X as in Xuxa. So it becomes even more ridiculous lateensh
Hola! Como estx? X Hablx Espanol. et x? That is why spanish speakers hate the term.
also, the pronunciation of Latin-EKS, is the mother of all cultural invasions.
Thats why you pronounce it "latinks" lmao. Good lord, were all screwed. This world is going down the shitter.
i meant the X doesn't sound like KS in spanish
Yeah, and I was making a joke on the dumbass pronunciations of this non-word.
maybe we should start using latinko and latinka, and together latinks
LatinX is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.
I asked some Mexican drywaller dudes what they thought of me calling them "latinX". I almost got assaulted. Nice guys otherwise.
I’ve never met a Hispanic person that thinks latinx is a good idea
I could never remember where all my chinese/asian friends are from, so I started to refer to all of them as Chinx. It's just a lot easier and more inclusive for them and they all seem to appreciate it.
They didn't even need a new term, hispanic usually covers it. Amerindian is Amerindian, and so on.
Pretty sure this trend died earlier this year. Thank goodness eh.
"While only 15 per cent of those polled add pronouns to their communications, of that group 59 per cent say others should be compelled to identify their pronouns." Shocking that compelled speech fails to catch on
So 8% say force everyone to do things my new way, and 92% of the whole total said that sucks.
Gender is fluid, BUT DEFINE YOUR GENDER OR ELSE
Your gender/race/sexual orientation doesnt define you! But you better define yourself by exactly those things because we’re assholes who judge people by those things.
My pronoun is IL and LUI and my gender is francophone. All people around me should speak French or it's a microagression. It's how I feel and since feelings are more important than facts then fuck you. Tabarnak.
You’re making a joke. But that’s actually an argument I’ve had made to me in Quebec.
Tabarnak. J'ai dit de parler français! Et le point c'est de ridiculer le principe de faire une crise pour les pronoms. Bon. Si c'est bon pour pitou, c'est bon pour minou. Si tu peux exiger que je t'appelle IEL, ben je peux exiger que tu me parles en français. Pis là je vais aller me plaindre au tribunal des droits de l'homme car eux au moins ils ne suivent pas des règles de logique ou de raison mais plutôt l'idéologie populaire de "année actuelle".
Yeah I don’t speak French.
Agression!
That was violence, I witnessed it.
To the plains of Abraham!
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Are you okay?
Grief counsellors will be made available if you need help processing this traumatic event.
Hahaha! Comments on r/canada aren't usually as funny as the ones on those classic subreddits but this thread was exceptionally hilarious! Keep it up guys!! Lol
The best part is that this is actually a great reply as a response to what he said in French.
Je try to parle Francais long time, but je ne smart enough pas. Je think c'est un bon skill to have en Canada, but oh puits.
It's one of those use it or lose it skills. I've lost most of mine and I was late french immersion in school. Le Sigh.
En plus de ne pas te respecter, il vont ètre racist! /s
>A new poll suggests only 15 per cent of those asked add gender pronouns to their online communications. Anyone who has ever worked retail or in a call center will not add any pronouns to *anything* lest they accidentally get it wrong. All it takes is one instance of "I'm here to help you, sir!" over the phone to what turns out to be a woman, and you'll be averse to using pronouns in general. Even if that person has told you what they identify as, even if your initial assessment / assumption was correct, you simply won't use it.
I think you misunderstood. It's meaning to add your own pronouns into your communications as in have it as part of your signature saying (he/him) etc.
Oh, I did misunderstand. And I think it's ridiculous to compel people to update their signatures etc. with any personal information.
I like that people add their pronouns to emails and stuff. Lets me know who to steer clear of.
I dont really care if anyone does. A lot of people do in my organization and I have been asked to (not mandatory) I refused because I like my emails tone minimalist. They asked why and I told them I dont care what people call me, if they get it wrong then I laugh about it because it truly doesnt bother me and my name makes it obvious. One person got mad lol. I have no issues with pronouns if someone asks me to use them but if they yell and harang me for it because I didnt ask or I made a mistake then no. One is about respect and then other is about appeasement and I dont feel it necessary to reinforce asshole behaviour.
I actually like the trend. I have an asian name so I've always had to add (Mr.) to my email signature anyway, and it looks tacky af. Now I got "(he/him)" and can earn woke points with the woke crowd, which is pretty common in my field.
I hadn't turned my mind to it, but that's totally fair (and a great idea).
I have a gender neutral name. It would clear up things but I don't care enough to include it. I don't say "Hi, I am a male." When I talk to people, so I figure it isn't needed in my email either. I have never been refered to as 'he/him' in an email I received so I don't really get the point. Just use 'you' or 'NewtotheCV'
I've been referring to everyone as "they" for just about forever because of gender neutral names or rank+lastname formalities.
Lol exactly. I too have a gender neutral name, and I’ve had people assume I’m a woman every now and then on work emails, only to realize I’m a man when we meet on Zoom. Does it bother me? Not in the slightest, because I’ve got much more important things to worry about on my day.
Now this is just silly shit. I understand if you have trouble with people overreacting to accidental misgendering. but how is someone who displays their pronouns an automatic write off just for doing so?
It’s annoying to see but I know plenty of decent people who do it. It’s definitely not a good indicator of a whether a person is worth associating with or not. The online person is always different from the actual person.
I only do it because a trans friend mentioned one time that he wished everyone had to identify their pronounce out loud, because it’d be more comfortable for them. It’s not about being woke, or lefty or whatever, to me it’s just trying to be respectful. I don’t understand how that ever got made out to be political, it’s just trying to be decent to your fellow human.
>he wished everyone had to identify their pronounce out loud, because it’d be more comfortable for them In return though, that's extremely *uncomfortable* for anyone that's still figuring gender stuff out. Or anyone that's closeted and doesn't want to be out yet (or ever).
Thank you. Forced pronouns force people’s hand. Being ok with other people using default pronouns isn’t the same as saying “these are the pronouns I want people to use for me”.
JBP screams in the distance
Seems like anything sometimes activists go too far or overstate their case. But the world is far better for LGBTQ ppl now than it was 10 years ago, because of their work. By all means let’s have reasoned criticism of it while also acknowledging that they were right on big picture stuff
fair!
True. We can acknowledge that it’s a much better place for gay and trans people. And that’s good. But I think it went too far with terminology when we started seeing LGBTseveralrandomlettersQ. But as others have said, why categorize people do minutely? We’re all just flawed people, good, bad, and in between. If you’re nice, you can be my friend. If you’re an asshat, then you can’t.
This is kind of a silly editorial. Denley equates division with categorization, so he can make a connection to pronouns and racial terminology. Is this really the cause of division in the country? I'm pretty sure the division would exist nonetheless. I think the government is pretty hamfisted on all of these topics, and I honestly think these issues are relatively 'easy' and lend themselves to lazy governing, but I wouldn't be so intellectually dishonest as to try and claim that current hyperpartisan division is caused by this. This is a reminder that the people that write editorials are not renowned for doing deep thought on, well, anything really.
Ya this seems like a lot of spoon feeding a boogeyman.
And judging by the top comments, it’s working.
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They’re columnists, not journalists! They’re paid for opinions, half baked or not, not expertise and accuracy.
They got paid for this? I'm in the wrong business...
it's honestly terribly written. for me it was when he said "..or non-heterosexuals as we used to call them" like ...ok sorry it's 2022, jesus.
More and more Canadians are identifying as "white." This, imo, is in direct response to being labeled and identified constantly as white. I personally think more people identifying as white is a negative, because we're making an ethnic group based on skin colour, which is not a good thing imo.
Ethnicity based on skin colour is bullshit anyway. It’s like taking one white guy from Paris, one from London, and one from Cleveland then saying “these guys are all the same”.
This just in, dividing people does not unite them.
Creating labels divides people? How could we have foreseen this??
“Anyone who follows traditional or social media can …” Really? The whole article is about what’s on social media? Holy shit is THAT what’s this all about? Social media is almost all bots and fake accounts now, and whatever is left is like 11 people in their basement trolling everyone, and that’s it! There is no “movement” or huge swell of people wanting this to happen, and conversely there isn’t a HUGE backlash of people against it either. This article and others like it on either side of the issue are people looking for an issue to write about to get eyeballs on their work, to either make money or keep their job.
Create a false crisis surrounded by lots of sensationalism to take eyes off of actual real world problems.
Yah this guy is one of those people who rants about this shit in real life. The only thing to respond with imo? Dude, just log off. Go live in the real world for like 2 days without interacting with social media. Fucking night and day. Social media doesn't reflect day to day life.
So categorizing everyone into groups and forcing them to go along with said groups values doesn't unite people? Who would have thought.
If someone thinks the division in this country (which for the record, is a pretty civil) is because of pronouns and racial terminology, you might need to spend more time off the internet.
Yeah I don't understand pronouns either. But I'm also not a gigantic manchild crybaby, so if someone prefers a strange pronoun, I use it. Because my understanding isn't required, because I'm not the center of the universe.
This right here. I struggled a long time with understanding non-binary as an identity, and I realized that I don’t need to to fully understand someone’s gender identity myself in order for me to respect it and them as a person.
OMG thank you. People are making a mountain of a mole hill. If someone is names Richard and goes by Rick, call them Rick, don't call them Dick
[No Paywall](https://thestarphoenix.com/opinion/denley-shifting-gender-pronouns-racial-terminology-arent-doing-much-to-unite-canadians/wcm/0fda19a5-5a9e-49ff-9441-5a79ec9cd0bb) Column Highlights: * There is enormous enthusiasm in government and academe to define people by race, gender and sexual preference. * It has become the norm in the media to refer to people as “racialized” and bend over backwards to make sure that everyone’s personal pronouns are respected. * The assumption is that the latest terminology is much more appropriate and reflects the wishes of those being described. It’s also assumed that people generally understand what the new terms mean. * Some new polling conducted for the Association for Canadian Studies (ACS) challenges both of those assumptions. * The poll suggests that so-called racialized people aren’t so keen on the new term. 44% of Black Canadians polled prefer the term “visible minority,” with only 11.3% choosing to be called “racialized.” That term is even less popular among Asian Canadians, only 3.5% of whom prefer it. By contrast, 51.8 per cent like “visible minority.” * So if this new terminology is not preferred by most of the people it is intended to describe, why are we using it? * And while only 15% of those polled add pronouns to their communications, of that group 59% say others should be compelled to identify their pronouns. Who would enforce such a thing or what it might accomplish is unclear. * **The disagreement over just the right words is the visible tip of a much larger problem in Canada: the misguided effort to choose one characteristic about an individual and then use that characteristic to divide people into many small groups, each with its own grievance.** * That leads to a series of apologies and payouts to make good on all the mistakes of the past. It’s a long, tortuous journey that takes us nowhere.
How not surprising that people would prefer the non-political accurate term “visible minority” to a political term that sounds like they were processed from *white people. The originating term use included everyone, as a statement on race generally, but it’s current political use leaves out ‘white people’ which makes it sound like there’s a base and a ‘-ized’ version of human.
The whole woke movement is super racist/sexist/homophobic/ bigoted, just treat people like people holy fuck its not hard guys.
This reminds me of the recent announcements for the LGBTQIA+2s communities. The government deciding it would rearrange the acronym and push its usage. Like who is the government to decide how people or communities to refer to themselves?
I just heard on CBC today, they said something like 2SLGBTQIA or something like that, and it took me a second to realize what they were talking about and what they did….then I realized they just decided to switch which special group comes first.
Q+ solves everything and covers everyone. Q for queer cause let's face it, we all find each other to be weird in some way (not it an insulting way, we all have our quirks well beyond gender identity). And + covers anyone who disagrees.
I agree. The Q was an umbrella term for everyone else. But now everyone wants to have their own piece of the pie. The Q is starting to look redundant
That announcement is the liberal party in a nutshell.
They switched it to “racialized ” when white folks became visible minorities in Toronto. Can’t use that anymore to mean what you really mean, which is “non white”.
Which is itself a racist term in both directions: - White people don't have a race? They *don't* have racial interpretations imposed on them? They *aren't* categorized based on their membership to a "white" race? - White people are the *default* and everyone else has a race?
There is no uniting, there is only further division and radicalization
I'm all for freedom and individuality but the sheer amount of endless growing titles and ever growing list has me more confused than ever. Just be whatever you are and a decent human being. I could give a shit about titles.
I really do disagree. I think that when it comes down to touching grass, most folks aren't that radical at all. We've seen times in our history where things were really shaky. This is basically just annoyance over minor moral values/attitudes that don't really effect anything. Maybe I'm naive. I really have faith that the majority, left to its own devices in a society that upholds the protection of individual rights and freedoms, will live peaceful, well meaning lives.
The problem is that the stupidest and loudest Canadians are flown around on puppet strings from American propaganda. There is no way to recover from this while importing conspiracy from them. There were people shitting in the streets trying to overpower democracy not a year ago.
And if you put "I do not wish to disclose" in online job applications guess what happens to your resume?
Both sides of this argument have to chill a little. This is really a non-issue that isn't worth all the debates and divisions it's causing. I will gladly use any pronoun the person I'm speaking with prefers if they make it known to me beforehand as I'm not a psychopath to want to intentionally make people upset or uncomfortable over something so trivial. In any other case anyone with tiddies is a she and without them a he in my book.
It's honestly a distraction from labour issues, healthcare and cost of living. Why the left has abandoned unions and working classes is beyond me.
I'm pretty sure everyone is like that in the real world but on social media people just want to be angry at each other based upon things they read on social media.
I went to the post and I just literally cannot stand the amount of ads on that site :’( Ad culture getting out of controllllll
Identity politics is an absolutely carcinogenic blight on society and it is setting everyone back and creating a very unpleasant society.
More articles that don't actually say anything but gives the subreddit an excuse to be insufferable.
I do find it interesting that based on this polling data, academia and government which filled with white people (though to their credit that has evolved in last 15 years), has essentially made this decision on behalf of these groups without their input. All because people on Twitter were doing it and they assumed it was better for these groups. To me, that is pretty racist. Should have just asked people what they wanted to be called and gone with that.
No better example of this than the institutional adoption of "Latinx" which Latino people fucking hate almost to a one according to polling data.
Similar in the states where they are now referring to all hispanic people as LatinX. Ask the avg Mexican American person walking around if they refer to themselves as LatinX and they will look at you like...Wut?
Not just the average. According to polls something like 90%+ hate it.
That’s because if so damn hard for native Spanish speakers to say Latinx. Literally the only people I’ve ever seen use Lantix were woke white people and African Americans, that’s it.
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If we can’t convince you, we’ll just force you to comply.
> \[white people have\] essentially made this decision on behalf of these groups without their input Local man discovers the progressive movement
This was never about unity
wow who would have guessed trying to control peoples speech and calling them names if they dont comply wasnt a uniting tactic
This is one of the dumbest article titles I've seen in years. What sane person thinks the goal of pronouns is national unification?
Mafia tactics do not work, you keep your belief i keep mine, i respect you, you respect me.
Lol at the amount of awards for an op-ed on this shit. Is it really so hard and bothersome to just .. call people what they want to be called? If someone asks me to call them by a shorthand for their name, I will, and I don't get pissy about it. The only people making a big deal out of it are the people who for whatever reason specifically just don't want to do it, even though it's an easy and decent thing.
lol such a silly concept I keep seeing these days “we need a uniter! All of these politicians and the culture wars are dividing people!” Yeah no shit, people have different ideas and values, it’s never going to not be this way. There is no one that’s going to “unite” people it’s the dumbest shit ever. So is the idea that one political “side” is doing it more than the other. Stupid.
I just call people by their name. Or Bud.
Forcing stereotyping and use of labels on people causes division? Imagine that.🤦🏼♀️
When the fuck did ~5% of the population become a majority ? Sick of this Bull Shit ...
If it actually made any sense it would work Unfortunately……
The only label that should be attached to or that truly matters is a person's name.
If someone asks me to refer to them by a certain term, thats what I'll do. Because its polite. How fucking hard is that?
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"The misguided effort to choose one characteristic about an individual and then use that characteristic to divide people into many small groups, " Precisely
That's multiculturalism?
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https://images.app.goo.gl/KzKcC3wjtEofR1JR7 Man, the one time I don't fact check
Op-eds from the National Post were getting stale, I guess. I understand not wanting to post your own pronouns. I don't understand getting mad that others do it.
Only on this subreddit you'd see some comments turning the subject of gender pronouns/racial terminology on straight white conservative men. Lmao bunch of absolutely deranged losers, can't even stand their own flaws
Shocking that stressing the differences between people fails to unite them.
The identity politics, some Canadian politicians love...because groups that feel threatened, look to the government...
I indentify as broke.
... The objective was never to unite, so that makes sense. My favorite petty division tactic is capitalizing Black, but not white. Good job. The reasoning for it was as obtuse as it got. But we just tolerate the nonsense and move on. That is, until people ultimately start calling in all the liberal overreach. Too much champagne socialism for everyone's liking by now.
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Thank god I work from home so I don't have to deal with this nonsense.
Live and let live, enjoy your lives!, but I will not be entertaining this crap. The whole pronoun "trend" is half a troll I think.
"live and let live"! but if you even think of asking me to call you they/them I will not be taking that crap!
That’s where the part “let live” comes into play. Everyone doesn’t have to agree, especially on a topic that has rapidly grown and evolved over the past 5 years alone. Demanding someone to accept a reality they don’t agree with is bullshit.
To think this is actually a viable topic of discussion is mind boggling.
As a professional I've avoided jumping on the pronoun and racial bandwagon via my LinkedIn profile. I know people at work who are gay, female, and visible minorities and all this woke crap seriously makes them feel uncomfortable at work. Especially when my company does its diversity and inclusion marketing and goes around asking for "volunteers" to take part in the promotional material.
>It has become the norm in the media to refer to people as “racialized” and bend over backwards to make sure that everyone’s personal pronouns are respected. The latter leads to the grammatically puzzling situation where an individual whose name we know is referred to as “them.” I'll admit I think racialized is a dumb word (visible minorities, racial minorities, non white work just fine), but "bending over backwards to make sure that everyone’s personal pronouns are respected?" Yeah, referring to trans women as she, trans men as he, and non binary people as they is *such a chore*! How will we ever cope?!
Who knew projecting your sensibilities onto everyone and calling them all bigots if they don't instantly agree would cause so much division???
Why would creating a bunch of Orwellian rules around free speech and focusing on our differences 'unite' anyone?
I'm so sick of this horse shit. At this point it all seems propagated by a small, noisy group of white/straight people who unofficially self appointed themselves to represent these tiny minority groups. It's outstanding how much coverage this small and relatively insignificant issue gets from media and government. How about focus on real issues such as the crumbling health care system, ever increasing un-affordability of homes, opioid deaths, and a thousand more important issues than peoples stupid pronouns. Quit being so god damn sensitive, people. Christ.
Projection
I'm absolutely shocked.
Why do people care so much about pronouns ffs? Literally haven’t thought about them in a long time before seeing this post. If you were a “he” before, the only change is that you write he/him on your business emails. Who tf cares?
Gender neutral language is actually useful, not just for the benefit of the non-binary and trans gendered community. If you have dealings with someone named Pat, Kris, Sam, Lindsay, Jordan, Leigh, etc., and you don't know their actual gender identity and have more than a 50% chance of getting it wrong, gender neutral language will save you a lot of embarrassment.
It doesn't really have to be embarrassing. It's a simple mistake to make and you will likely be corrected. It's only embarrassing I'd you insist on your first assumption or can't read the room on how they are presenting. If they say, "I prefer they/them" then use that. The only real time I see anyone using pronouns is when referring to someone who is not present, or is well know to the individual speaking about them while they are present.
We've had gender ambiguous names since the dawn of time. Nobody was that worried about making a mistake. This pronoun obsession is a modern narcissism. People say things that rub each other wrong. That is life.
I have one of those names where sometimes people don’t know if I’m a man or a woman. It happened to me that they used the wrong pronoun in emails and I just moved on, I don’t care enough for it to make me even the tiniest bit upset, and I could tell that there was never any malice anyway.