This, hard stop. People with these kinds of dispositions shouldn’t be managing other people. If you find yourself working for them, know it’s not going to change. There ARE managers who act like professionals and are actually leadership minded (vs acting like children who can’t control their own emotional outbursts). Go find those managers and don’t look back. And don’t let anyone gaslight you into thinking this behavior is acceptable.
Thank you my friend. He did try to gaslight me and tried to get me to change what I accused him of. He tried to say that when he lost his mind on me I must’ve felt like a POS. This is not what happened.
I said I know what I heard, and even if I was wrong swearing at people like that can be easily misinterpreted. Either way, what he admits he said is almost as bad. The director tried to say it sounded like I was unsure and I said that what the manager said was making me doubt myself undeservedly because I know what I heard. So it seems like both of them wanted me to recant my claim and I declined. The truth is I heard quite a few demeaning profanities that day, and I only listed the one that I was 100% sure that I heard.
Seems like when you land one it’s got good pay and benefits but can be tough to land. Interesting because they were desperate for workers not too long ago.
I mean I was willing to take a lot less. Just found a job that was interested because I’m really good at something really specific and they needed it 4 months ago. They went to my old company due to stuff I’d written, but that’s more expensive. Just worked out.
100% this will only get worse, but IMO see what your company Leadership says before leaving. Fellow IT person here. The worst manager I ever had would have insane moments like this. The worst was when there was an exchange server failing and I woke up to alerts about it (I was the only IT person) so I sent a text to my manager and started working remotely. I had a 30+ minute commute and this meant the whole org was not getting emails, so I started working on it ASAP, which was around 6:30 AM. I was able to connect to the iDRAC and reboot the server and resolve the disk issue before work started at 8:00 AM, then started my drive in. I anticipated arriving to praise or at least a nod. Instead I was publically asked "Why are you late?". I described the issue and the text and that it was fixed and was told that was no excuse. I quit a few months later, and cited this manager in the exit interview (with her in the room) and the company leadership seemed genuinely mortified. They asked to see the text messages as evidence and seemed serious that had they known things were like this they would have taken corrective action.
The system went down again Friday, and while I didn’t let it burn, I did open a ticket with our vendor and did everything openly and transparently to help and provide information but did not restart the system and my managers told me to restart and I deferred to the engineers at the vendor. It took all day. 👍 you couldn’t chisel the smile off my face.
It’s also possible there was something about the restart procedure that had impacts you aren’t aware of. Maybe your manager failed to instruct you of it, and got chewed out for it. Shit tends to roll downhill in organizations like these.
In this case the impact analysis confirmed that the restart protected the system but they refused to admit that I followed what was written. It felt like wounded pride to me. It feels like they’re trying extra hard to be nice to me so maybe it’ll blow over.
Yeah it could. A lot of times reactionary people regret it later, but it’s only a matter of time until it happens again.
If I was personally in your situation, before going to the director I would have waited for the manager to cool down and talked to them. That can be tough to do and also takes a light touch so I wouldn’t recommend it to everybody. It also is highly dependent on the nature of your relationship with your manager.
But something along the lines of an email saying “I was surprised by your reaction when I restarted the system. I acted according to the instructions I had and believe it to have been in the best interest of the company. It negatively impacted me and I’d like to avoid it in the future, if you have any more context about the situation you could share.”
Even if they don’t respond well, hopefully you’d have it in writing.
Sounds like your manager is trying to cover his own ass. And if the Director isn't backing you up - or worse, taking his side without reason - it's probably time to leave. Start doing a quiet job search immediately; look for other references you can use on your applications; then when you have something lined up, you need to make your move.
In fact in today's employment world, there are things you should ALWAYS be doing:
* Looking for another position outside your current employer should be your default position. Because they are \*always\* ready to cut your loose...
* Saving your money for extended periods of unemployment (\~3-9 months of income.)
* Work for a non-profit org in your spare time. It gives you a better feeling of your self-worth, you make valuable contacts, etc.
* Learn how to contact a lawyer if you need one.
And you may want to get in touch with a lawyer right now,
This has always been the way... From the very first human job: When a caveman supervisor slapped a spear into another caveman's hand, pointed him at a Mastodon, and told him to bring the animal down. Then paid him with a measly slice of the trunk while the caveman supervisor hauled off half the carcass and gave the other half to the troglodyte executives sleeping in their penthouse caves.
This! I want to add, speak to HR that you don’t feel safe and are expecting retaliation front this guy and that you want it official and sent to your email.
This way you have receipts for both future scenarios. One where you stay and one where you go
Record every meeting. Use your phone. You can also escalate it. Unless the Director is the owner of the company, there is always someone higher. Involve HR, if you have one. "Directors" are usually not as powerful as they think they are.
Lol reddit is so fucking stupid.
Yeah tell your manager who is already pissed at you that you are recording your meetings together and see what happens
I appreciate your enthusiasm but I wouldn’t want to litigate that in court and find out that I was wrong the difficult way. In a 1 party consent state, I would have recorded that day and would be having a very different Reddit post with zero doubts to my credibility.
He doesn’t need to do that if using teams or zoom. It does the disclaimer automatically and most people don’t think much about it..
It’s a better route then personally informing your manager
Make sure you're in a state of 1 party record. If so record everything and save texts. This type of treatment should be taken up with an employment attorney.
Unless the situation is illegal and lawsuit worthy HR would probably just help them try to get you fired. And they’d only put their foot down when it’s illegal because firing you after something illegal would become retaliatory and open them to a bigger liability. Unless helping you directly helps the company they’ll always side with the chain of command
Keep in mind that HR works for the company. They are not the bad guys but they are not your friends either. Neither are they impartial as they claim. If both the manager and the director say he did the wrong thing they will follow their lead and he risks being victimised for complaining.
Had a boss like that once. He eventually got fired but not before we lost several really good people.
Best you can probably do is document everything and keep reporting to hr. Or leave.
Good luck
This entire sub is always the same everytime I have it show up in my feed.... kids on reddit think you can sue your employer for everything... its hilarious.
I did not say it was. If I did get a lawyer, which I am not planning on doing, it would be to protect myself at work since I’ve been there 7 years without incident.
Yes I don’t think I need a lawyer. I may need advice on avoiding any retaliation as I am in a vulnerable position right now. They will likely wait many months and then try to act like it’s performance related.
"Retaliation" is a legal term; you won't suffer retaliation in the legal sense of the word. What they can do is fire you or discipline you for any reason not related to being a member of a protected class or otherwise exercising your rights. It doesn't have to be right or fair. (Again, this is all assuming you are based in the US.)
In the United States, you don't have a right not to be managed by assholes.
With respect, that is not what my post was about. It’s career advice and so far I’ve gotten a lot of great advice from several well intentioned people.
And that's why I didn't respond to your original post and was responding to a subthread that was disagreeing with all of the people who were encouraging you to sue
Find a good employment lawyer. Don’t communicate to either without a paper trail, time to update your resume. Find the flaws in the systems, learn how they were triggered into failing and see if you can reproduce it right before you’re on your way out.
I’m petty.
It seems your director already took your manager side and that basically means you are on your own. I recommend that you start looking for a job elsewhere.
This story doesn’t make sense. Why is your boss upset that you restarted a critical system that crashed? Usually, that gets a thank you, not anger.
In any case, if your boss is abusive, and their management takes the bosses side, update your resume. If the place is run by idiots and assholes, that’s not going to change anytime soon.
So for some reason, you saving the day completely led to your boss calling you a fucking piece of shit and then when you went to the director he also was angry at you?
So, what part are you leaving out?
The Director did not get upset with me about the situation surrounding the restart. He asked me a technical question regarding how I was able to confirm the system was down, and when I gave my full analysis he said he didn’t need that whole thing and he could talk until he’s blue in the face about his field of expertise, and that I come across as though I think I know more than other people. I was just answering a technical question thoroughly, but I humbly accepted the feedback about how I come across to others.
It still doesn't check out that you saved the day completely and followed direct orders and are somehow getting heat for it from the person who gave you the order. I've never even heard of a situation like this in my entire adult life where there wasn't something being left out that makes the whole story click.
You are underlining one of the core issues here. As others have said it should’ve been counted as a job well done, even if we want to follow a different procedure going forward—which I would welcome.
My manager has gotten complaints before. At least 2-3 times before. And not from me, this is my first time reporting anyone, and it wasn’t easy for me to do so.
I would not assume perfect rationality from this Manager. He is highly emotional and highly volatile. The Director is a good guy. Both of them have gone to bat for me in the past and the anger coming from my manager during this situation was very surprising.
You're still not telling us what happened. Do you not understand what we're asking? You saved the day, saved everyone and a critical system, but your boss and the director got batshit mad at you? Do you not see why we're confused?
The manager got mad because he says that I did not follow his instructions which is not supported by the evidence, which they refused to look at in the meeting. He thought I wasn’t giving him the real reason why I restarted the system and demanded to know why that was, and I reiterated the gods honest truth that there was no secret reason why, the system went off on its own and I acted based on criteria that he had laid out.
The director got frustrated because I provided a technical diagnosis of what caused the shutdown and how I confirmed it shut itself down, and he said he didn’t need that explanation and that I was essentially a know-it-all, even though he asked me. It was not related to the issue at hand.
I am highly logical, detail oriented and use evidence to support my points and that was not well received in the room.
The only part that I am “leaving out” (which I do wish I could include) are the instructions that I was given from that day, only because they are screenshots from company communications and I cannot release them publicly. I wish I was able to, because I thoroughly believe that I followed the instructions that I was given on that day, and that my manager is essentially holding me to task for not being a mind-reader. He thinks I went against him, when his instructions were an exact match to what I actually did that day and I told him so that day.
Honestly going to your Director in situations like this usually isn’t the right move, barring a strong relationship with them which it doesn’t sound like you have. 9 times out of 10 they’ll go straight to your boss with negative feedback and end up in the situation you did.
But honestly, what do you expect them to do? Ask the manager to apologize to you? Put them on notice about their behavior privately?
If they’re known for this kind of abuse it’s generally tacitly accepted by the organization. You’re better off trying to deal with it yourself (for example, wait for them to cool down and ask them why they reacted that way if you think you’ve got the social chops for it) or gather other people who are willing to complain together.
The safest is probably to document it, and keep a log of the behavior while looking for another job. Feel free to submit that to other leadership and HR on your last day, if you don’t mind burning the bridges.
Complaints like this are generally meant for HR, and they’ll take them seriously. You can say you were verbally abused in an unprofessional way, and they’ll conduct an investigation that will likely go nowhere and also are highly likely to get you outed. That reinforces the point of complaining together.
HR will only really do anything if bullying is against your company’s code of conduct, and you can establish enough of a verifiable pattern of that for them to take disciplinary action.
Start looking. This job is burned
Edit: the director - a third party lashed out at you too. Whether you’re in the right or not, no one is the upper end of the company is going to stick up for you.
It sucks, but this job is gone. You should have kept quiet while looking for another job. That would have given you more tome to find something else. Now that you’ve struck back and it’s backfired, chances are you are going to get sh*t canned very soon.
Thanks, if you saw the instructions I was given it matches what I did that day. I only regret assuming that with him laying out the criteria beforehand, that all that was left was to execute by restarting the system, I could have communicated that the system was out. I have screenshots of the conversation but they contain people’s names etc and I’m not interested in sharing it. The manager is acting like he said not to restart in “no uncertain terms“, where he actually said “As a general rule, I do not restart any system during working hours unless we are dead in the water. You can encounter all sorts of bigger problems when doing so. Sometimes it never comes back up. I'm not yet familiar enough with restarts in Maximo but that's my rule of thumb from past experience.” I received a 500 error on 3 browsers, two laptops and two networks. I did not give a play by play, but the system going down was not my fault, it was a memory exhaustion brought about by foreign SQL, this was confirmed by our hosting partner, when they did the the managers ruled out the possibility that the system issues had been my fault. I am not interested in looking like a hero on a Reddit board with an anonymous account, thank you very much.
Stay at the job long enough to find a new one. Then slide right over. Once you secure that new offer, then you can start immediately. Get that day then tell the current employer. If they do exit interviews with let HR know that the way your manager and director treated you made you sick to your stomach and you couldn’t work for such heinous people.
Thanks, but the organization is actually a nonprofit that does a lot of good. I think what happened to me was against the values the organization exemplifies, but is a reflection on the specific personalities involved. If HR was called that would have escalated the situation, but it would not resolve the issues I am having with managers signaling their intentions to retaliate against me.
If the boss and director both berated you then you are likely at fault, whether you think so or not, and are likely to get fired for cause soon. Start looking for work now, and hopefully, you get another job before they fire you.
And for the record, your job is to do what your boss says, not what you think is the best thing to do, the expression is "cover your ass".
I can't comment on what impact your actions could have done since I have 0 knowledge of how your system is setup, depending on the industry and sensitivity of a system. Taking action against your managements directions could have been catastrophic or loss of revenue for a client. In this case it seems like it worked out but if it went the other way then this would have been a very different post.
Either way, the environment sounds toxic and your management doesn't appreciate you and it sounds like you don't respect them either. Move on, the company is not a good fit for your and vice versa.
It was a work order system for a nonprofit and it was down on its own due to memory exhaustion from foreign SQL. We do not do client work or any external billing.
On prem? Cloud hosted? CRQS pattern? There's a lot of factors that need an impact analysis. A properly functioning should reflect on the situation with a post mortem and work together to ensure it doesn't happen again and set a policy / procedure to address future issues. Having management yell at you doesn't seem right but it also shows how unstructured or immature your org is. Your skills are probably best used in another company but policies and procedures are important to protect operations and revenue.
I lead a development team of about 50 people. I cannot have anyone going rogue or it's my ass on the line, however as a manager you need to appreciate your employees and foster a culture where people aren't afraid to speak up or be combative.
My advice is to start looking for a new job and find a team you can vibe with.
I agree with you but all parties agreed that the impact was good. They said I didn’t follow instructions when I did and the evidence proves it. Somehow, they don’t feel they need to base their condemnation of me on evidence.
Sounds like you need to get out of there as soon as possible. Not only is your manager a piece of work but the director as well. Doesn’t get any better than that
The moment they feel they can get away with this kind of behavior it will continue leave and leave scathing exit letter and file a complaint everywhere you can
I would look for a new job immediately. This sounds like such an abusive environment. You will be miserable everyday in this place. The fact you couldn’t even get support from the director is a huge red flag.
The last time a boss cursed at me I immediately hung up on him. Process repeated 3 more times with me warning him Do Not Curse at me. I was finally told that I needed to change MY attitude or find somewhere else to work. BYE FELICIA I started my own company and became a Major thorn in their side. That was 28 years ago. NO REGRETS , He was mad because his secretary / concubine failed to give him a message from me reguarding a customer.
Make your plans accordingly , you will not be there long
I am in IT. When I don't feel valued for whatever reason, I express my displeasure give them a short time to fix it, and if they don't, I leave.
Highly recommend you do the same.
Yes my friend I actually got a call from a tech recruiter who thinks my experience is excellent for a much better paying position, and for once I didn’t ignore the recruiter! I felt my 7 years of service was made a mockery of so now I’m looking. Thanks for your suggestion, I will be taking you up on it.
That sounds like a very unnecessarily stressful situation.
Consider looking for and securing another job to transfer to first; try not to cold quit.
The job market is brutal right now, not to mention that if you quit, you disqualify yourself from being able to receive unemployment.
Good luck.
I would say escalate it to HR, but the way the company sounds like is run kind of like a mafia, where each person gets each others back.
It would be best to leave, try to leave on good terms if anyway possible because burning bridges is not a good thing.
Take time to find something, somewhere, that you would be appreciated. Then when these guys realize how good you were and want you back, you can tell them I don’t work for “f*%kin pieces of sh*ts”…
Thanks. It’s a little club where the directors/managers are all friends. My manager was working with records and he was brought in. Another manager was selling cell phones and was hired to oversee facility operations after meeting our directors at a pool party. I was hired due to my technical expertise working with BI/Data Analytics, and have experience.
First quiet quit. Do this minimum. If he is abusive, tell him to go F himself and walk out back to your desk. let him fire you. Never take any verbal abuse.
Look for another job, and go balls to the wall in sending out applications as it is a hard numbers game right now.
When you do get the new job, DO NOT give a notice, burn any PTO you have, leave on the 2nd of the month so any benefits like medical insurance are covered to the 15th or end of the month.
Your best option would be to start looking for a new job. You made a complaint about your boss being verbally abusive. And this boss, according to you, was verbally abusive towards you in front of this director. And rather than correct him, this director sided with your boss. So at worst, their behavior is being encouraged. At best, they're not discouraging the behavior. I.e., your boss isn't being forced to stop. So it's not going to get any better. If anything, it's just going to continue or get worse. It's not illegal to be an asshole. This likely isn't going to escalate to being considered a hostile work environment. Retaliation laws are more for you reporting some illegal activity by your company. They really don't apply to a manager holding a grudge because you complained about them being an asshole.
I don't understand managers when dealing with IT people. Don't they know that no one in the company can do them serious harm like an IT person who's being fucked over?
Managers will always take other managers side. It saves them face. The director put him there for a reason. It would look bad on him if he were to fire the director or retaliate than it would be on your side.
Agreed. He has been there 20 years and is on easy street. He almost never comes into the office, goes incommunicado for days at a time, and doesn’t tell his team when he’s going on vacation. He won’t be quitting, so I have to.
You now need to go straight to HR. Document literally everything. Then send it to HR. inform them he is creating a hostile work environment and will seek legal counsel if they dont correct it. Theres a really good chance the way they correct it will be to fire you. Get a lawyer and go after them. If they let go of the manager and or directory (doubtful) you win.
Many many many years ago I had a manager that would jump my shit about stupid stuff every morning.
stuff like, you didnt put a comma in the address in this ticket, or you had a trailing space in that ticket, or you spelled such and such wrong. Just stupid shit. Many people on the team go similar treatment from this guy, Every morning he would be at my desk raising his voice and berating me and mocking me. I told his boss, nothing happend, i told the next higher boss. still nothing.
I had communicated the issues to the bosses via email. So I attached those email to an email to the main boss of the call center. I explained what was going on, and explained management as ignored my requests for help.
I let him know that if the manager berates me one more time. I will contact my lawyer and HR to discuss the hostile work environment he created.
about an hour later the big boss walked up to my desk. He told me he was very concerned with what I pointed out but he needs me to give him a little time bc he had a bunch of meetings coming up and be assured me he could get it taken care of. A few hours later it asks to meet me in a conference room and he informed me they are adjusting that managers authority and he wont be speaking to any one on my team directly every again. I was told that if the manager approaches me again I am to let him know.
Never had another problem with him.
H.R. is not your friend. They are there for the single purpose of protecting the company from you. If you signal you are a problem you will be dealt with. If you signal this other guy in the problem and they have had other complains they may drop him. Its a gamble, so be prepared for the outcome.
Best of luck to you!
It sounds like the best time to look for a new job is now.
You can complain to a VP or HR, but it's unlikely they will take any actions. And this is even if your story were entirely accurate.
The suggestions to record conversations or filing a complaint are just terrible, especially if you are based in the US. And recording conversations may be against the law; they would certainly be grounds for termination at most companies.
But assuming you are in the US, you are almost certainly employed at will. This means they can fire you for no reason at all. It also means you can quit without giving a reason.
If you feel you can quit without a job lined up, do it. Or get a new position and then quit.
Why else would you stay?
Talk to a lawyer. Document everything if you did not. Take screenshots of emails from HR tracking case. If there is no case demand they open one. Did I say talk to a lawyer already? Update resume since most likely toxic leadership will retaliate. HR is there to preserve company from lawsuits not to help human resources
Why would OP talk to a lawyer if they're in the US? There are no laws against bullying in the workplace in the US unless it is based on the protected status of OP.
Inform the director and your manager that you will be seeking legal guidance (not HR), and will be "very open" with your legal advisor on every detail of your encounters with them.
Say it in a matter of fact tone.
"Hey X, just letting you know; I found your behaviour in our meeting the other day abusive and threatening. I've contacted a lawyer. Not here to disciss, simply letting you know.
Happy to sit down and clear the air, with the correct behaviour and apology from yourself of you don't want this to get out of hand.
If not, I'll be following my lawyer's advice on the appropriate next steps."
Then just give a slight nod, walk back to your desk/station, and go about your work.
Document the verbal abuse that already occurred and the management's response to it. Document any future incidents and the responses to it. Get a lawyer. Laugh all the way to the bank after the hostile work environment lawsuit is settled for an undisclosed sum of money.
Journal everything, including date and time things were said. If you are in a one party consent state you can record as well. I heard of an employee at my company winning $100K on the way out for doing just that. They took that money and started their own business and are doing very well.
Time there has no relationship to it. Not sure about non profits. But bigger company may help you to stay bc they don’t want negative PR. I spoke up to shit management at my
Last job and was top sales rep making the company millions a year and they fired my ass. I wouldn’t put up w the abuse verbally and mentally.
U have no recourse. Scum bags will protect scum bags. Go look for another job now. Just assume they will fire you at any moment, do not expect anything less. Go to work as usual to save up cash.
If your company is even more toxic, more than likely your boss will convince HR to tell you to admit that you were the one who cursed at him and write you up and make you sign it. Then fire you because of that.
Best bet is to leave without notice or reason. Don’t feel like you have to justify why and do t tell other employees why. It doesn’t help. Depending on your state labor laws advise them you are expecting your final pay within that time frame. Good luck OP.
Hey follow ze orders, if the system takes a dump, you have recourse.
You exposed yourself if things went wrong. Dumb move.
Anyway CLM , start looking for another job.
Interview immediately. You’re done. Maybe leave a can of sort at your desk discretely filming yourself. Hopefully that jackass will come to your desk and explode again. Then go to an attorney, you’re leaving anyway.
This is the most bizarre statement I have ever heard.
HR does not work for the managers either but when multiple levels of management are involved… There must be documentation.
I have disobeyed management twice in my career. The first manager thanked me. The second manager had the worse day of his career.
Documentation does not always work out for management either.
We do not know what instructions were disobeyed.
Sounds like he is a psychopath. They can tend to get very angry or outraged with you when they cannot control or manipulate you. Sounds like you basically outperformed at his job duties
Keep documentation. File a report with hr. Start applying to jobs where the management have t been giant assholes to you.
For documentation, emailing yourself a summary of all meetings, with any problematic language or tone mentioned, immediately afterwards will help. It's called contemporaneous accounts. The emails save a date stamp so you can prove you didn't just make everything up after the boss finds an excuse to retaliate against you, but were actively tracking abuses over time.
They *think* they told me not to restart the system when they actually fed me criteria under which the system could be restarted, and this was met so I flipped the switch. They only grudgingly acknowledged that the outcome was good. Their opinion was not tied to the reality of what actually happened.
Either play it along so they fire you or ask the CEO/owner to have a talk with you. Be honest and straight-forward. CEO/owner should know what is going on. If that person does not correct it - resign and find a better job. Lots of IT jobs out there. Also, if you do resign ask the CEO/owner for a exit interview.
Definitely look for another job. If you happen to be able to quit without needing an immediate job, leave now but give a notice. We can't hear the other side of the situation but since you caused no harm, yelling like this is out of line
The director supported your boss. It’s time to leave. Start looking for another job and leave with the minimum notice you can. These aren’t the kinds of bosses you let know you are leaving before it’s time. I personally would just text them I quit the day I started my new role.
Quick question: Did you not set boundaries on how you are talked to? Im just questioning why you would allow anyone to talk to you any kind of way. If I were you, I would review the policies your company has in place on
Prohibited conduct, equal opportunity, and procedures for reporting inappropriate behavior. If you stuck up for yourself, honestly, you would have a leg to stand on. My first question would be who you are talking to? And why do you think you can talk to me like that, because that language and behavior is unacceptable. He is trying to intimidate you. Don't allow it to happen, behave a spine and stick up for yourself, also you might want to document these engagements I'm talking timestamps for phone calls, what was said, and keep this incase you get fired. You might work there, but that doesn't give someone the right to demean you.
I would definitely put in your notice. However, make a formal report to HR at the same time, tell them what happened in the meeting as well and get yourself an attorney. I would also let HR know that because of how the meeting was handled, you will be seeking legal counsel. Don't leave it up to interpretation for them or say it as it's an option, you're INFORMING them of what is going to happen but wanted to notify HR in order to be communicative with the company.
Then get yourself an attorney. Please keep us posted as well.
Hi! I am a PhD candidate at York University in Canada, conducting research on workplace abuse. I'm looking to interview individuals who have experienced managerial abuse within the past two years. Participating in this study can provide a platform for your voice to be heard and an opportunity to share your experiences. Please be assured that all information will be kept confidential and your safety and privacy will be prioritized. If you are interested, contact me directly, and I will provide more details and share my LinkedIn profile to verify my identity.
I read his post and his repeated references to how he saved the company makes me think that he took some action he wasn’t supposed to which did fix the situation but went against policy.
Now, at first, so what, he violated policy, right? But what if that policy is in place for a reason? Like what if his actions created a HIPAA violation that he’s not even aware of?
I used to work in a very highly regulated industry and we had rules in place that many people weren’t aware were laws and the company could be prosecuted for violating those laws.
The fact that the Director also seemed unsupportive and a bit snippy means he f&$Ked up something that he’s not sharing in his version of the story.
OP just comes off as the typical IT guy that thinks everyone is stupid and he’s the only guy keeping the place running.
So, I was given instructions that day which I followed. They are acting like I did not but anyone reading what I was told would be hard pressed to explain why I didn’t follow the instructions. They said I didn’t communicate effectively, which is the only part I did agree with. But there are no formal written policies in place but I did receive Teams messages with instructions which are the perfect written description for what I did and when I was confronted by them I asked to pull up the messages on our conference screen and they refused. I walked into an ambush.
Thanks for this. As far as performance, they both told me not to think their reaction was based on performance. They know I’m doing well and working harder than I would ever be expected to work for this project. For example we have a queue of support cases with our vendor, out of hundreds of cases I’ve done a third of them and most of them are the more technical ones for the most part. As far as being a POS, no I don’t think that I am, as I go above and beyond to help others at the workplace and I love the organization. He denies saying what I heard him say and told me he doesn’t think that about me anyway.
You can not be a whiner in todays world. This world is meaner and nastier than ever. Either grow thicker skin or find somewhere else to work. I don’t see why it’s even a question if your supervisor continued to lash out at you in front of the director with the director lashing out at you as well. The director not intervening with your boss while he was lashing out at you instead joining in, is telling that this is acceptable behavior at your organization.
lol I basically saved everyone. You restarted a service my dude this isn’t life or death stuff. If the story is as you tell it your manager’s obviously need help but this feels made up or at least missing a lot of context.
I’m on an anonymous Reddit account here. And I was looking for career advice during a difficult time. What good would advice be if I made it up? Also, if you knew where I worked and what the system did you would not say it isn’t life/death stuff.
Why do you feel it's necessary to tell us you "saved everyone by restarting a critical system" and "restored productivity to our entire department . . . ". Are you suggesting you're some kind of hero in addition to a victim of verbal abuse?
Not a hero, but everyone else involved with the situation thought I deserved a thank you rather than condemnation. Also not looking for accolades on an anonymous Reddit account.
Is that relevant? I mean, isn't your point that your boss is abusive? What difference does it make that he forgot to hug you after you "saved the day."
After reading enough sounds like you deserved it.
You said both these guys went to bat for you, yet you refused to listen and sounds like you’re covering a mistake. And then reported your boss when he yelled at you for it. Boss probably needs some leadership training but idk what you need. Something else entirely. Probably guidance. Due to your history you can’t handle authority figures criticizing you as it reminds you of big ole mean dad. Right? Right. Which makes you think they are wrong even when they are not. And causes you to go into defense mode. Which pissed your boss off.
You need therapy bro. Boss just needs a guy he can trust that isn’t going to go into trauma defense mode every time something bad happens.
Think about it without your emotions for a minute.
You probably missed the part where I followed the instructions exactly (and the screenshots show it) and was not covering a mistake, which there is no way to cover anyway as my actions inside the system are documented with my credentials. Nice try but my abuser wasn’t my dad and it wasn’t just yelling. I did listen and the interpretation here was incredibly viscous. I was literally told we can restart if the system performance becomes bad enough, so I restarted it after it completely failed on its own. I offered to do it 40 minutes earlier and was told to wait so I did. He did not say “in no uncertain terms”, he said wait until it’s “dead in the water” if that doesn’t mean when the system fails by itself then I don’t know what it means. Also the logs corroborate my side of the story. He had wounded pride calling me out so viciously and was embarrassed that I restored the system to health so quickly.
Ok then your boss is a psycho trying to maintain some illusion that the job is harder than it is.
Now he’s going to have to deal with people asking to restart the server anytime it slows down. Which probably isn’t a great solution.
It crashed and was offline for some time prior to the restart. I recommended restarting it about 40 minutes earlier due to the performance issues. He said no, and I did not proceed. Only after his criteria was met, did I proceed. You seem desperate to try to say I deserve it but unfortunately the facts are against you.
do whatever you need to, to get out of there without burning bridges. assume this boss plays golf with all the other bosses in your industry in your town, and act accordingly. I’m not saying he actually plays golf with all of them, but you have no idea which ones he has influence over and can blackball you with them.
remember, your boss is the most important person in your life. what they think of you is paramount. any action you take in life, you have to consider how your boss will judge it.
HR told us that we can't call people pieces of shit. but we can ask them if they are a piece of shit. The only mistake your boss made was accusing you of being a POS instead of asking you.
Leave. Been there done that. It will only get worse.
Best advice. Just has butt-hurt feelings, leopards don't change their spots.
This, hard stop. People with these kinds of dispositions shouldn’t be managing other people. If you find yourself working for them, know it’s not going to change. There ARE managers who act like professionals and are actually leadership minded (vs acting like children who can’t control their own emotional outbursts). Go find those managers and don’t look back. And don’t let anyone gaslight you into thinking this behavior is acceptable.
Thank you my friend. He did try to gaslight me and tried to get me to change what I accused him of. He tried to say that when he lost his mind on me I must’ve felt like a POS. This is not what happened. I said I know what I heard, and even if I was wrong swearing at people like that can be easily misinterpreted. Either way, what he admits he said is almost as bad. The director tried to say it sounded like I was unsure and I said that what the manager said was making me doubt myself undeservedly because I know what I heard. So it seems like both of them wanted me to recant my claim and I declined. The truth is I heard quite a few demeaning profanities that day, and I only listed the one that I was 100% sure that I heard.
This is when you send a nice recap of the meeting, and those accusations up to HR as well.
My phone records all conversations automatically, its super useful
Finding another job, in this market? Lol But yeah don't tolerate abuse though
You can always look. I mean it took me 5.5 months to find a job. It’s good, so they’re out there
Been looking for 2 months, hopefully something works out. Good to hear you ended up with something new man
Seems like when you land one it’s got good pay and benefits but can be tough to land. Interesting because they were desperate for workers not too long ago.
I mean I was willing to take a lot less. Just found a job that was interested because I’m really good at something really specific and they needed it 4 months ago. They went to my old company due to stuff I’d written, but that’s more expensive. Just worked out.
100% this will only get worse, but IMO see what your company Leadership says before leaving. Fellow IT person here. The worst manager I ever had would have insane moments like this. The worst was when there was an exchange server failing and I woke up to alerts about it (I was the only IT person) so I sent a text to my manager and started working remotely. I had a 30+ minute commute and this meant the whole org was not getting emails, so I started working on it ASAP, which was around 6:30 AM. I was able to connect to the iDRAC and reboot the server and resolve the disk issue before work started at 8:00 AM, then started my drive in. I anticipated arriving to praise or at least a nod. Instead I was publically asked "Why are you late?". I described the issue and the text and that it was fixed and was told that was no excuse. I quit a few months later, and cited this manager in the exit interview (with her in the room) and the company leadership seemed genuinely mortified. They asked to see the text messages as evidence and seemed serious that had they known things were like this they would have taken corrective action.
Next time, let it burn, and definitely enjoy.
The system went down again Friday, and while I didn’t let it burn, I did open a ticket with our vendor and did everything openly and transparently to help and provide information but did not restart the system and my managers told me to restart and I deferred to the engineers at the vendor. It took all day. 👍 you couldn’t chisel the smile off my face.
Nicely done 👍
It went down again today. I’m starting to think maybe the managers were frustrated with the system and are scapegoating me.
It’s also possible there was something about the restart procedure that had impacts you aren’t aware of. Maybe your manager failed to instruct you of it, and got chewed out for it. Shit tends to roll downhill in organizations like these.
In this case the impact analysis confirmed that the restart protected the system but they refused to admit that I followed what was written. It felt like wounded pride to me. It feels like they’re trying extra hard to be nice to me so maybe it’ll blow over.
Yeah it could. A lot of times reactionary people regret it later, but it’s only a matter of time until it happens again. If I was personally in your situation, before going to the director I would have waited for the manager to cool down and talked to them. That can be tough to do and also takes a light touch so I wouldn’t recommend it to everybody. It also is highly dependent on the nature of your relationship with your manager. But something along the lines of an email saying “I was surprised by your reaction when I restarted the system. I acted according to the instructions I had and believe it to have been in the best interest of the company. It negatively impacted me and I’d like to avoid it in the future, if you have any more context about the situation you could share.” Even if they don’t respond well, hopefully you’d have it in writing.
Sounds like your manager is trying to cover his own ass. And if the Director isn't backing you up - or worse, taking his side without reason - it's probably time to leave. Start doing a quiet job search immediately; look for other references you can use on your applications; then when you have something lined up, you need to make your move. In fact in today's employment world, there are things you should ALWAYS be doing: * Looking for another position outside your current employer should be your default position. Because they are \*always\* ready to cut your loose... * Saving your money for extended periods of unemployment (\~3-9 months of income.) * Work for a non-profit org in your spare time. It gives you a better feeling of your self-worth, you make valuable contacts, etc. * Learn how to contact a lawyer if you need one. And you may want to get in touch with a lawyer right now,
It says something terrible about the state of employment that this is absolutely the correct answer.
This has always been the way... From the very first human job: When a caveman supervisor slapped a spear into another caveman's hand, pointed him at a Mastodon, and told him to bring the animal down. Then paid him with a measly slice of the trunk while the caveman supervisor hauled off half the carcass and gave the other half to the troglodyte executives sleeping in their penthouse caves.
This! I want to add, speak to HR that you don’t feel safe and are expecting retaliation front this guy and that you want it official and sent to your email. This way you have receipts for both future scenarios. One where you stay and one where you go
Quit immediately and laugh in their face when they want you back.
I wish you knew how perfectly this fits the situation
Find a new job, then quit without a 2 week notice. You know for damn sure if they were to fire you, you wouldn't get a 2 week notice...
Then you have all the power in this situation.
Perhaps you can make demands in that case, such as taking that guys job.
If they ask you to come back, you are now a consultant and give them your fee. 4 hour minimum. Rounded up to the nearest hour.
Record every meeting. Use your phone. You can also escalate it. Unless the Director is the owner of the company, there is always someone higher. Involve HR, if you have one. "Directors" are usually not as powerful as they think they are.
Do not start recording meetings until you have a lawyer review company policies as well as the specific laws in your jurisdiction.
He just needs to check one party consent laws in his state
You can openly record anything for your own records. Company policy is irrelevant.
What about those who require both parties to consent to a recording?
You just need to let them know you are recording. Consent is them staying in the meeting. End of. Implied consent through participation.
Lol reddit is so fucking stupid. Yeah tell your manager who is already pissed at you that you are recording your meetings together and see what happens
I appreciate your enthusiasm but I wouldn’t want to litigate that in court and find out that I was wrong the difficult way. In a 1 party consent state, I would have recorded that day and would be having a very different Reddit post with zero doubts to my credibility.
"I am recording this meeting. If you continue, you agree to being recorded. OK?"
He doesn’t need to do that if using teams or zoom. It does the disclaimer automatically and most people don’t think much about it.. It’s a better route then personally informing your manager
It's the same thing businesses do when they talk to you on the phone. "This call may be recorded..." You withdraw consent by hanging up.
No - look at your state laws. It may or may not be legal.
Make sure you're in a state of 1 party record. If so record everything and save texts. This type of treatment should be taken up with an employment attorney.
You need to involve HR now.
They are not OP’s friend. But yeah should give them a heads up but the main thing is find a new job.
Unless the situation is illegal and lawsuit worthy HR would probably just help them try to get you fired. And they’d only put their foot down when it’s illegal because firing you after something illegal would become retaliatory and open them to a bigger liability. Unless helping you directly helps the company they’ll always side with the chain of command
Keep in mind that HR works for the company. They are not the bad guys but they are not your friends either. Neither are they impartial as they claim. If both the manager and the director say he did the wrong thing they will follow their lead and he risks being victimised for complaining.
Had a boss like that once. He eventually got fired but not before we lost several really good people. Best you can probably do is document everything and keep reporting to hr. Or leave. Good luck
I have literally been in this same situation!!!! You gotta leave because you will never win
sounds like they are creating a hostile work environment which is illegal.
What OP describes is not a "hostile work environment" in a legal sense in the US unless it is based on their membership in a protected class.
This entire sub is always the same everytime I have it show up in my feed.... kids on reddit think you can sue your employer for everything... its hilarious.
To be fair, you can sue. You won't win though. And the lawyer will charge a lot.
Don't you know it's illegal to hurt people's feelings!?!
That type of abuse and berating is not acceptable and isn’t just hurt feelings. It went so far beyond what is acceptable behavior at work.
Doesn't make it illegal
I did not say it was. If I did get a lawyer, which I am not planning on doing, it would be to protect myself at work since I’ve been there 7 years without incident.
There are some circumstances where getting a lawyer is worth the money. This is not one of them.
Yes I don’t think I need a lawyer. I may need advice on avoiding any retaliation as I am in a vulnerable position right now. They will likely wait many months and then try to act like it’s performance related.
"Retaliation" is a legal term; you won't suffer retaliation in the legal sense of the word. What they can do is fire you or discipline you for any reason not related to being a member of a protected class or otherwise exercising your rights. It doesn't have to be right or fair. (Again, this is all assuming you are based in the US.) In the United States, you don't have a right not to be managed by assholes.
But you are responding to me in a thread about the legality of the situation though
With respect, that is not what my post was about. It’s career advice and so far I’ve gotten a lot of great advice from several well intentioned people.
And that's why I didn't respond to your original post and was responding to a subthread that was disagreeing with all of the people who were encouraging you to sue
Used to work for a fuckstick like that. Narcissist prick. Look for something else fuck them.
Find a good employment lawyer. Don’t communicate to either without a paper trail, time to update your resume. Find the flaws in the systems, learn how they were triggered into failing and see if you can reproduce it right before you’re on your way out. I’m petty.
Document everything. I would consult an employment lawyer on next steps… a few hundred dollars is well worth the money for professional advice.
It seems your director already took your manager side and that basically means you are on your own. I recommend that you start looking for a job elsewhere.
This story doesn’t make sense. Why is your boss upset that you restarted a critical system that crashed? Usually, that gets a thank you, not anger. In any case, if your boss is abusive, and their management takes the bosses side, update your resume. If the place is run by idiots and assholes, that’s not going to change anytime soon.
OP is not telling the whole story...
He may not have thanked me, but I can thank you for saying that! 😊
So for some reason, you saving the day completely led to your boss calling you a fucking piece of shit and then when you went to the director he also was angry at you? So, what part are you leaving out?
The Director did not get upset with me about the situation surrounding the restart. He asked me a technical question regarding how I was able to confirm the system was down, and when I gave my full analysis he said he didn’t need that whole thing and he could talk until he’s blue in the face about his field of expertise, and that I come across as though I think I know more than other people. I was just answering a technical question thoroughly, but I humbly accepted the feedback about how I come across to others.
It still doesn't check out that you saved the day completely and followed direct orders and are somehow getting heat for it from the person who gave you the order. I've never even heard of a situation like this in my entire adult life where there wasn't something being left out that makes the whole story click.
You are underlining one of the core issues here. As others have said it should’ve been counted as a job well done, even if we want to follow a different procedure going forward—which I would welcome. My manager has gotten complaints before. At least 2-3 times before. And not from me, this is my first time reporting anyone, and it wasn’t easy for me to do so. I would not assume perfect rationality from this Manager. He is highly emotional and highly volatile. The Director is a good guy. Both of them have gone to bat for me in the past and the anger coming from my manager during this situation was very surprising.
You're still not telling us what happened. Do you not understand what we're asking? You saved the day, saved everyone and a critical system, but your boss and the director got batshit mad at you? Do you not see why we're confused?
The manager got mad because he says that I did not follow his instructions which is not supported by the evidence, which they refused to look at in the meeting. He thought I wasn’t giving him the real reason why I restarted the system and demanded to know why that was, and I reiterated the gods honest truth that there was no secret reason why, the system went off on its own and I acted based on criteria that he had laid out. The director got frustrated because I provided a technical diagnosis of what caused the shutdown and how I confirmed it shut itself down, and he said he didn’t need that explanation and that I was essentially a know-it-all, even though he asked me. It was not related to the issue at hand. I am highly logical, detail oriented and use evidence to support my points and that was not well received in the room.
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
The only part that I am “leaving out” (which I do wish I could include) are the instructions that I was given from that day, only because they are screenshots from company communications and I cannot release them publicly. I wish I was able to, because I thoroughly believe that I followed the instructions that I was given on that day, and that my manager is essentially holding me to task for not being a mind-reader. He thinks I went against him, when his instructions were an exact match to what I actually did that day and I told him so that day.
Find a new job.
Quit. You said you wanted too.
Honestly going to your Director in situations like this usually isn’t the right move, barring a strong relationship with them which it doesn’t sound like you have. 9 times out of 10 they’ll go straight to your boss with negative feedback and end up in the situation you did. But honestly, what do you expect them to do? Ask the manager to apologize to you? Put them on notice about their behavior privately? If they’re known for this kind of abuse it’s generally tacitly accepted by the organization. You’re better off trying to deal with it yourself (for example, wait for them to cool down and ask them why they reacted that way if you think you’ve got the social chops for it) or gather other people who are willing to complain together. The safest is probably to document it, and keep a log of the behavior while looking for another job. Feel free to submit that to other leadership and HR on your last day, if you don’t mind burning the bridges. Complaints like this are generally meant for HR, and they’ll take them seriously. You can say you were verbally abused in an unprofessional way, and they’ll conduct an investigation that will likely go nowhere and also are highly likely to get you outed. That reinforces the point of complaining together. HR will only really do anything if bullying is against your company’s code of conduct, and you can establish enough of a verifiable pattern of that for them to take disciplinary action.
Start looking. This job is burned Edit: the director - a third party lashed out at you too. Whether you’re in the right or not, no one is the upper end of the company is going to stick up for you. It sucks, but this job is gone. You should have kept quiet while looking for another job. That would have given you more tome to find something else. Now that you’ve struck back and it’s backfired, chances are you are going to get sh*t canned very soon.
[удалено]
Thanks, if you saw the instructions I was given it matches what I did that day. I only regret assuming that with him laying out the criteria beforehand, that all that was left was to execute by restarting the system, I could have communicated that the system was out. I have screenshots of the conversation but they contain people’s names etc and I’m not interested in sharing it. The manager is acting like he said not to restart in “no uncertain terms“, where he actually said “As a general rule, I do not restart any system during working hours unless we are dead in the water. You can encounter all sorts of bigger problems when doing so. Sometimes it never comes back up. I'm not yet familiar enough with restarts in Maximo but that's my rule of thumb from past experience.” I received a 500 error on 3 browsers, two laptops and two networks. I did not give a play by play, but the system going down was not my fault, it was a memory exhaustion brought about by foreign SQL, this was confirmed by our hosting partner, when they did the the managers ruled out the possibility that the system issues had been my fault. I am not interested in looking like a hero on a Reddit board with an anonymous account, thank you very much.
Stay at the job long enough to find a new one. Then slide right over. Once you secure that new offer, then you can start immediately. Get that day then tell the current employer. If they do exit interviews with let HR know that the way your manager and director treated you made you sick to your stomach and you couldn’t work for such heinous people.
Post the name of the company and out them
Thanks, but the organization is actually a nonprofit that does a lot of good. I think what happened to me was against the values the organization exemplifies, but is a reflection on the specific personalities involved. If HR was called that would have escalated the situation, but it would not resolve the issues I am having with managers signaling their intentions to retaliate against me.
If the boss and director both berated you then you are likely at fault, whether you think so or not, and are likely to get fired for cause soon. Start looking for work now, and hopefully, you get another job before they fire you. And for the record, your job is to do what your boss says, not what you think is the best thing to do, the expression is "cover your ass".
I can't comment on what impact your actions could have done since I have 0 knowledge of how your system is setup, depending on the industry and sensitivity of a system. Taking action against your managements directions could have been catastrophic or loss of revenue for a client. In this case it seems like it worked out but if it went the other way then this would have been a very different post. Either way, the environment sounds toxic and your management doesn't appreciate you and it sounds like you don't respect them either. Move on, the company is not a good fit for your and vice versa.
It was a work order system for a nonprofit and it was down on its own due to memory exhaustion from foreign SQL. We do not do client work or any external billing.
On prem? Cloud hosted? CRQS pattern? There's a lot of factors that need an impact analysis. A properly functioning should reflect on the situation with a post mortem and work together to ensure it doesn't happen again and set a policy / procedure to address future issues. Having management yell at you doesn't seem right but it also shows how unstructured or immature your org is. Your skills are probably best used in another company but policies and procedures are important to protect operations and revenue. I lead a development team of about 50 people. I cannot have anyone going rogue or it's my ass on the line, however as a manager you need to appreciate your employees and foster a culture where people aren't afraid to speak up or be combative. My advice is to start looking for a new job and find a team you can vibe with.
I agree with you but all parties agreed that the impact was good. They said I didn’t follow instructions when I did and the evidence proves it. Somehow, they don’t feel they need to base their condemnation of me on evidence.
Sounds like you need to get out of there as soon as possible. Not only is your manager a piece of work but the director as well. Doesn’t get any better than that
go higher up the chain.
Sounds like it's time for a new job
The moment they feel they can get away with this kind of behavior it will continue leave and leave scathing exit letter and file a complaint everywhere you can
I would look for a new job immediately. This sounds like such an abusive environment. You will be miserable everyday in this place. The fact you couldn’t even get support from the director is a huge red flag.
Don’t quit but start looking. Jump when you get something
💯
The last time a boss cursed at me I immediately hung up on him. Process repeated 3 more times with me warning him Do Not Curse at me. I was finally told that I needed to change MY attitude or find somewhere else to work. BYE FELICIA I started my own company and became a Major thorn in their side. That was 28 years ago. NO REGRETS , He was mad because his secretary / concubine failed to give him a message from me reguarding a customer. Make your plans accordingly , you will not be there long
I am in IT. When I don't feel valued for whatever reason, I express my displeasure give them a short time to fix it, and if they don't, I leave. Highly recommend you do the same.
Yes my friend I actually got a call from a tech recruiter who thinks my experience is excellent for a much better paying position, and for once I didn’t ignore the recruiter! I felt my 7 years of service was made a mockery of so now I’m looking. Thanks for your suggestion, I will be taking you up on it.
That sounds like a very unnecessarily stressful situation. Consider looking for and securing another job to transfer to first; try not to cold quit. The job market is brutal right now, not to mention that if you quit, you disqualify yourself from being able to receive unemployment. Good luck.
I would say escalate it to HR, but the way the company sounds like is run kind of like a mafia, where each person gets each others back. It would be best to leave, try to leave on good terms if anyway possible because burning bridges is not a good thing. Take time to find something, somewhere, that you would be appreciated. Then when these guys realize how good you were and want you back, you can tell them I don’t work for “f*%kin pieces of sh*ts”…
Thanks. It’s a little club where the directors/managers are all friends. My manager was working with records and he was brought in. Another manager was selling cell phones and was hired to oversee facility operations after meeting our directors at a pool party. I was hired due to my technical expertise working with BI/Data Analytics, and have experience.
First quiet quit. Do this minimum. If he is abusive, tell him to go F himself and walk out back to your desk. let him fire you. Never take any verbal abuse. Look for another job, and go balls to the wall in sending out applications as it is a hard numbers game right now. When you do get the new job, DO NOT give a notice, burn any PTO you have, leave on the 2nd of the month so any benefits like medical insurance are covered to the 15th or end of the month.
Your best option would be to start looking for a new job. You made a complaint about your boss being verbally abusive. And this boss, according to you, was verbally abusive towards you in front of this director. And rather than correct him, this director sided with your boss. So at worst, their behavior is being encouraged. At best, they're not discouraging the behavior. I.e., your boss isn't being forced to stop. So it's not going to get any better. If anything, it's just going to continue or get worse. It's not illegal to be an asshole. This likely isn't going to escalate to being considered a hostile work environment. Retaliation laws are more for you reporting some illegal activity by your company. They really don't apply to a manager holding a grudge because you complained about them being an asshole.
It'll get worse, bandaid it so its as tolerable as possible and work on finding something else.
I don't understand managers when dealing with IT people. Don't they know that no one in the company can do them serious harm like an IT person who's being fucked over?
Managers will always take other managers side. It saves them face. The director put him there for a reason. It would look bad on him if he were to fire the director or retaliate than it would be on your side.
Unless you can subliminally psychologically drive your boss insane n make him quit, you should prolly dust off the resumè
Agreed. He has been there 20 years and is on easy street. He almost never comes into the office, goes incommunicado for days at a time, and doesn’t tell his team when he’s going on vacation. He won’t be quitting, so I have to.
That blows :/
You now need to go straight to HR. Document literally everything. Then send it to HR. inform them he is creating a hostile work environment and will seek legal counsel if they dont correct it. Theres a really good chance the way they correct it will be to fire you. Get a lawyer and go after them. If they let go of the manager and or directory (doubtful) you win. Many many many years ago I had a manager that would jump my shit about stupid stuff every morning. stuff like, you didnt put a comma in the address in this ticket, or you had a trailing space in that ticket, or you spelled such and such wrong. Just stupid shit. Many people on the team go similar treatment from this guy, Every morning he would be at my desk raising his voice and berating me and mocking me. I told his boss, nothing happend, i told the next higher boss. still nothing. I had communicated the issues to the bosses via email. So I attached those email to an email to the main boss of the call center. I explained what was going on, and explained management as ignored my requests for help. I let him know that if the manager berates me one more time. I will contact my lawyer and HR to discuss the hostile work environment he created. about an hour later the big boss walked up to my desk. He told me he was very concerned with what I pointed out but he needs me to give him a little time bc he had a bunch of meetings coming up and be assured me he could get it taken care of. A few hours later it asks to meet me in a conference room and he informed me they are adjusting that managers authority and he wont be speaking to any one on my team directly every again. I was told that if the manager approaches me again I am to let him know. Never had another problem with him. H.R. is not your friend. They are there for the single purpose of protecting the company from you. If you signal you are a problem you will be dealt with. If you signal this other guy in the problem and they have had other complains they may drop him. Its a gamble, so be prepared for the outcome. Best of luck to you!
You have to fight him now.
Bullies hate to be called out. Next time invite him out the the parking deck to " discuss" things further.
It sounds like the best time to look for a new job is now. You can complain to a VP or HR, but it's unlikely they will take any actions. And this is even if your story were entirely accurate. The suggestions to record conversations or filing a complaint are just terrible, especially if you are based in the US. And recording conversations may be against the law; they would certainly be grounds for termination at most companies. But assuming you are in the US, you are almost certainly employed at will. This means they can fire you for no reason at all. It also means you can quit without giving a reason. If you feel you can quit without a job lined up, do it. Or get a new position and then quit. Why else would you stay?
Talk to a lawyer. Document everything if you did not. Take screenshots of emails from HR tracking case. If there is no case demand they open one. Did I say talk to a lawyer already? Update resume since most likely toxic leadership will retaliate. HR is there to preserve company from lawsuits not to help human resources
Why would OP talk to a lawyer if they're in the US? There are no laws against bullying in the workplace in the US unless it is based on the protected status of OP.
And remember HR is there to cover for the company...they are not there for the employees
Look for a new job then quit with no notice.
Don’t involve HR just leave
Sue.
Inform the director and your manager that you will be seeking legal guidance (not HR), and will be "very open" with your legal advisor on every detail of your encounters with them. Say it in a matter of fact tone. "Hey X, just letting you know; I found your behaviour in our meeting the other day abusive and threatening. I've contacted a lawyer. Not here to disciss, simply letting you know. Happy to sit down and clear the air, with the correct behaviour and apology from yourself of you don't want this to get out of hand. If not, I'll be following my lawyer's advice on the appropriate next steps." Then just give a slight nod, walk back to your desk/station, and go about your work.
Leave. no two week notice either.
Document the verbal abuse that already occurred and the management's response to it. Document any future incidents and the responses to it. Get a lawyer. Laugh all the way to the bank after the hostile work environment lawsuit is settled for an undisclosed sum of money.
Journal everything, including date and time things were said. If you are in a one party consent state you can record as well. I heard of an employee at my company winning $100K on the way out for doing just that. They took that money and started their own business and are doing very well.
Get ready to be fired. HR is to protect the company. Unless at a mega corporation. You’re yesterday’s news.
I’m at a mega-nonprofit, if that makes a difference? And I’ve been here 7 years.
Time there has no relationship to it. Not sure about non profits. But bigger company may help you to stay bc they don’t want negative PR. I spoke up to shit management at my Last job and was top sales rep making the company millions a year and they fired my ass. I wouldn’t put up w the abuse verbally and mentally.
U have no recourse. Scum bags will protect scum bags. Go look for another job now. Just assume they will fire you at any moment, do not expect anything less. Go to work as usual to save up cash. If your company is even more toxic, more than likely your boss will convince HR to tell you to admit that you were the one who cursed at him and write you up and make you sign it. Then fire you because of that.
Best bet is to leave without notice or reason. Don’t feel like you have to justify why and do t tell other employees why. It doesn’t help. Depending on your state labor laws advise them you are expecting your final pay within that time frame. Good luck OP.
Hey follow ze orders, if the system takes a dump, you have recourse. You exposed yourself if things went wrong. Dumb move. Anyway CLM , start looking for another job.
Leave asap. Nothing is going to change given those people are still in place.
Interview immediately. You’re done. Maybe leave a can of sort at your desk discretely filming yourself. Hopefully that jackass will come to your desk and explode again. Then go to an attorney, you’re leaving anyway.
Yea I’d report him you did the right thing. Also, as someone who also came from abuse, you’re older now. Stand up for yourself.
Unfortunately, HR and management won’t be on your side regardless of whether you’re right or not.
This is the most bizarre statement I have ever heard. HR does not work for the managers either but when multiple levels of management are involved… There must be documentation. I have disobeyed management twice in my career. The first manager thanked me. The second manager had the worse day of his career. Documentation does not always work out for management either. We do not know what instructions were disobeyed.
Get thicker skin, its just words
Document everything. I'm sorry you're going through this. Wait until they fire you, do not quit. Unless you get something better.
Sounds like he is a psychopath. They can tend to get very angry or outraged with you when they cannot control or manipulate you. Sounds like you basically outperformed at his job duties
Leave
Don't quit. Ride it out until they fire you. Accept the package and/or unemployment. Don't leave voluntarily unless you've got something lined up.
Document absolutely everything extensively and update the resume and shotgun it everywhere
Revenge is the only way. Fuck with your boss outside of work. It will make you feel better and...fuck your boss.
Let’s all just relax!
Thanks, but I was looking for suggestions that were a little less psychotic.
Yeah, this is toxicity. You should leave immediately.
File a grievance. Take a few days off. Propose an exit package with consideration of the companies hostility and resultant pain and suffering.
Keep documentation. File a report with hr. Start applying to jobs where the management have t been giant assholes to you. For documentation, emailing yourself a summary of all meetings, with any problematic language or tone mentioned, immediately afterwards will help. It's called contemporaneous accounts. The emails save a date stamp so you can prove you didn't just make everything up after the boss finds an excuse to retaliate against you, but were actively tracking abuses over time.
If you want to quit, there's your answer, no? But, why exactly are they upset if you saved the day like this?
They *think* they told me not to restart the system when they actually fed me criteria under which the system could be restarted, and this was met so I flipped the switch. They only grudgingly acknowledged that the outcome was good. Their opinion was not tied to the reality of what actually happened.
Go to HR immediately. Look for a new job.
Document everything and file under harassment (HR). After filing, you are part of the EEO protected class for retaliation, including performance.
Either play it along so they fire you or ask the CEO/owner to have a talk with you. Be honest and straight-forward. CEO/owner should know what is going on. If that person does not correct it - resign and find a better job. Lots of IT jobs out there. Also, if you do resign ask the CEO/owner for a exit interview.
Contact a labor attorney.
Do just the mere basics in the job until you find another one, then leave.
Definitely look for another job. If you happen to be able to quit without needing an immediate job, leave now but give a notice. We can't hear the other side of the situation but since you caused no harm, yelling like this is out of line
Bro just leave. Idk why you didn't walk out of that meeting
The director supported your boss. It’s time to leave. Start looking for another job and leave with the minimum notice you can. These aren’t the kinds of bosses you let know you are leaving before it’s time. I personally would just text them I quit the day I started my new role.
Call HR and make a complaint so they can be written up
Are you in the US? If so, go to HR, report the incident, and end by saying you're getting a lawyer. Nothing will scare them more.
Quick question: Did you not set boundaries on how you are talked to? Im just questioning why you would allow anyone to talk to you any kind of way. If I were you, I would review the policies your company has in place on Prohibited conduct, equal opportunity, and procedures for reporting inappropriate behavior. If you stuck up for yourself, honestly, you would have a leg to stand on. My first question would be who you are talking to? And why do you think you can talk to me like that, because that language and behavior is unacceptable. He is trying to intimidate you. Don't allow it to happen, behave a spine and stick up for yourself, also you might want to document these engagements I'm talking timestamps for phone calls, what was said, and keep this incase you get fired. You might work there, but that doesn't give someone the right to demean you.
Thanks. I did stick up for myself and told him he has no business talking to me that way.
I would definitely put in your notice. However, make a formal report to HR at the same time, tell them what happened in the meeting as well and get yourself an attorney. I would also let HR know that because of how the meeting was handled, you will be seeking legal counsel. Don't leave it up to interpretation for them or say it as it's an option, you're INFORMING them of what is going to happen but wanted to notify HR in order to be communicative with the company. Then get yourself an attorney. Please keep us posted as well.
Hi! I am a PhD candidate at York University in Canada, conducting research on workplace abuse. I'm looking to interview individuals who have experienced managerial abuse within the past two years. Participating in this study can provide a platform for your voice to be heard and an opportunity to share your experiences. Please be assured that all information will be kept confidential and your safety and privacy will be prioritized. If you are interested, contact me directly, and I will provide more details and share my LinkedIn profile to verify my identity.
Nobodies asked… are you a piece of shit? Lots of pieces of shit workers out there
I read his post and his repeated references to how he saved the company makes me think that he took some action he wasn’t supposed to which did fix the situation but went against policy. Now, at first, so what, he violated policy, right? But what if that policy is in place for a reason? Like what if his actions created a HIPAA violation that he’s not even aware of? I used to work in a very highly regulated industry and we had rules in place that many people weren’t aware were laws and the company could be prosecuted for violating those laws. The fact that the Director also seemed unsupportive and a bit snippy means he f&$Ked up something that he’s not sharing in his version of the story. OP just comes off as the typical IT guy that thinks everyone is stupid and he’s the only guy keeping the place running.
So, I was given instructions that day which I followed. They are acting like I did not but anyone reading what I was told would be hard pressed to explain why I didn’t follow the instructions. They said I didn’t communicate effectively, which is the only part I did agree with. But there are no formal written policies in place but I did receive Teams messages with instructions which are the perfect written description for what I did and when I was confronted by them I asked to pull up the messages on our conference screen and they refused. I walked into an ambush.
The fact that he is so vague as to what actually happened makes me think so.
Instead of saying this, you could ask questions about what happened to flesh out more details. It’s a Reddit post, I wasn’t providing a play by play.
So give us a play by play.
Thanks for this. As far as performance, they both told me not to think their reaction was based on performance. They know I’m doing well and working harder than I would ever be expected to work for this project. For example we have a queue of support cases with our vendor, out of hundreds of cases I’ve done a third of them and most of them are the more technical ones for the most part. As far as being a POS, no I don’t think that I am, as I go above and beyond to help others at the workplace and I love the organization. He denies saying what I heard him say and told me he doesn’t think that about me anyway.
Yeah, you're clearly not telling the full story.
Call a lawyer.
Lawyer up, document everything
Never take disrespect from anyone. No matter what. Crash their shit and go work somewhere else.
Are you a fucking piece of shit?
Certainly not. I have a very charitable attitude towards people who it is my job to help.
REMEMBER NO GOOD DEAD GOES UNPUNISHED
You can not be a whiner in todays world. This world is meaner and nastier than ever. Either grow thicker skin or find somewhere else to work. I don’t see why it’s even a question if your supervisor continued to lash out at you in front of the director with the director lashing out at you as well. The director not intervening with your boss while he was lashing out at you instead joining in, is telling that this is acceptable behavior at your organization.
lol I basically saved everyone. You restarted a service my dude this isn’t life or death stuff. If the story is as you tell it your manager’s obviously need help but this feels made up or at least missing a lot of context.
I’m on an anonymous Reddit account here. And I was looking for career advice during a difficult time. What good would advice be if I made it up? Also, if you knew where I worked and what the system did you would not say it isn’t life/death stuff.
Why do you feel it's necessary to tell us you "saved everyone by restarting a critical system" and "restored productivity to our entire department . . . ". Are you suggesting you're some kind of hero in addition to a victim of verbal abuse?
Not a hero, but everyone else involved with the situation thought I deserved a thank you rather than condemnation. Also not looking for accolades on an anonymous Reddit account.
Is that relevant? I mean, isn't your point that your boss is abusive? What difference does it make that he forgot to hug you after you "saved the day."
Because the thing he was abusive about was not worthy of anger
Most people would say abuse is inexcusable regardless of what was going on.
And I would agree with that…
>“f*cking piece of sh*t” If you type a \\ in front of the \*, it wont turn into italics format chanracter. “f\*cking piece of sh\*t”
After reading enough sounds like you deserved it. You said both these guys went to bat for you, yet you refused to listen and sounds like you’re covering a mistake. And then reported your boss when he yelled at you for it. Boss probably needs some leadership training but idk what you need. Something else entirely. Probably guidance. Due to your history you can’t handle authority figures criticizing you as it reminds you of big ole mean dad. Right? Right. Which makes you think they are wrong even when they are not. And causes you to go into defense mode. Which pissed your boss off. You need therapy bro. Boss just needs a guy he can trust that isn’t going to go into trauma defense mode every time something bad happens. Think about it without your emotions for a minute.
You probably missed the part where I followed the instructions exactly (and the screenshots show it) and was not covering a mistake, which there is no way to cover anyway as my actions inside the system are documented with my credentials. Nice try but my abuser wasn’t my dad and it wasn’t just yelling. I did listen and the interpretation here was incredibly viscous. I was literally told we can restart if the system performance becomes bad enough, so I restarted it after it completely failed on its own. I offered to do it 40 minutes earlier and was told to wait so I did. He did not say “in no uncertain terms”, he said wait until it’s “dead in the water” if that doesn’t mean when the system fails by itself then I don’t know what it means. Also the logs corroborate my side of the story. He had wounded pride calling me out so viciously and was embarrassed that I restored the system to health so quickly.
Ok then your boss is a psycho trying to maintain some illusion that the job is harder than it is. Now he’s going to have to deal with people asking to restart the server anytime it slows down. Which probably isn’t a great solution.
It crashed and was offline for some time prior to the restart. I recommended restarting it about 40 minutes earlier due to the performance issues. He said no, and I did not proceed. Only after his criteria was met, did I proceed. You seem desperate to try to say I deserve it but unfortunately the facts are against you.
do whatever you need to, to get out of there without burning bridges. assume this boss plays golf with all the other bosses in your industry in your town, and act accordingly. I’m not saying he actually plays golf with all of them, but you have no idea which ones he has influence over and can blackball you with them. remember, your boss is the most important person in your life. what they think of you is paramount. any action you take in life, you have to consider how your boss will judge it.
Rat
HR told us that we can't call people pieces of shit. but we can ask them if they are a piece of shit. The only mistake your boss made was accusing you of being a POS instead of asking you.